The Devil’s 5 Favourite Strategies: Church Leader Edition

You’re probably thinking: Seriously? A blog post on the devil? I mean come on… I thought this was a blog for thoughtful leaders.

Well, I’m with you. Talking about the work of the enemy is not an easy task.

The challenge, I think, lies at the extremes. There are some Christian leaders who never talk about Satan, and others who talk incessantly about him. You know what I mean. In the case of the latter, every time the toast burns or something doesn’t go their way, Satan is behind it and it’s time for an exorcism. Neither extreme is particularly helpful.

In a similar way, the greatest mistake I believe you can make with evil is to overestimate or underestimate its influence. It doesn’t have ultimate power, but it also isn’t powerless. Evil is active. And in some way, it’s probably influencing your thought life, ministry, and family right now. At least that’s what the scriptures claim. And Jesus himself acted as though evil was very real.

Before I entered ministry I believed what the scriptures taught about evil and Satan because, well, I had confidence in the authority of scripture. But reading passages about evil felt like I was reading about some other time or place. I just had no idea how any of that worked nor did I feel I had any experience with it.

My time in ministry has changed my perspective. Suddenly passages that seemed arcane (like for example, the references in Ephesians to evil, or Jesus’ very real struggle to stay faithful to his Father) began to pop off the page. The scripture’s understanding of the battle between good and evil began to explain a good deal of what I was feeling inside of me as a leader, but also around me in relationships, in culture and even, sometimes, in the church.

Again… please don’t hear extremism in what I am saying. But even if you’re skeptical about evil, you might also have noticed that we do live in a strange world, with headlines that depress, good leaders that get derailed, people that struggle against each other and against themselves. It’s like there’s a virus in the system that we just can’t seem to shake. Because, of course, there is.

C.S. Lewis, of course, treated the subject of the presence of evil in the world masterfully in the Screwtape Letters, written during the ravages of the second world war. It’s a book that has not lost its punch seven decades after its publication. Going back centuries further, you can read Thomas Brook’s Precious Remedies Against Satan’s Devices—an astonishingly insightful book (HT to Tim Keller for the reference).

The key to overcoming the activity and influence of evil in your life and your world, of course, is to recognize it. When you expose it to the light of Christ, evil loses its power.

So, in the hopes of shedding some light on evil’s activity, here are some of the strategies I see presently at work in the lives of leaders and churches.


1. Division

If there’s one strategy Satan comes back to again and again, it’s creating division in the church. And why wouldn’t he? It works.

Strangely, in our culture, some Christians wear their divisiveness as a badge of honour. It’s not. It’s actually a badge of evil.

How do we know division is a sign of the activity and presence of evil?

Paul actually defines which human behaviour is motivated by God and which is motivated by the enemy in Galatians 5.

He begins by listing the characteristics of people whose lives are under the influence of evil.

Ready for the list? Here it is:



Sexual immorality


Impurity and debauchery

Fits of rage





Sadly, too much of that sounds like church.

Even if you remove the sexual sins (which, tragically, are often present too), the list sounds like a job description for self-righteous Christians. But, actually, it’s Satan’s job description.

Contrast that with what the Holy Spirit generates in peoples’ lives. When the Holy Spirit gets hold of a person and a church, he produces:










The contrast could hardly be sharper.

But wait, you say, what if my conviction is from God?

Sure, occasionally we need a Martin Luther to nail 95 theses to the door. But most of us are not Martin Luther.

And even if you need to ‘take a stand’, it’s probably not a stand for Jesus if it ultimately produces more division and bitterness than it does unity and love. Sometimes love is tough, but love never ends tough.

If you want to drill down a bit further, I’ve written about how the church today might be getting discipleship wrong in this post and again here.

Regardless, if your definition of Christianity has anything to do with hate and division, it’s not Christianity.

If your definition of Christianity is full of hate and divisiveness, it's not Christianity. Click To Tweet

2. Arrogance

Arrogance can creep in so easily among church leaders.

There are two primary ways Christians succumb to arrogance: success, and by using a common but false definition of ‘maturity.’

Let’s start with the first. The most difficult test of character is not failure. It’s success.

Here’s why. It’s pretty easy to be humble when you’re failing. It’s just far too easy to take all the credit when things go well.

As a result, leaders of growing churches and ministries almost always have a daily fight with arrogance. Or at least hopefully there’s a fight. Because if there isn’t, arrogance will win. Every time.

I know in my life as the church has grown, as more people have read my blog or even listened to my podcasts, the battle against claiming credit is daily.

The most difficult test of character is not failure. It's success. It's easy to be humble when you're failing. It's much harder when things go well. Click To Tweet

I remember that when our church was little, I regularly prayed: “God, write a story so big here that only you can possibly claim credit.”

The truth is, God has.  Our church or my wider ministry has impacted far more people than I ever dreamed or could possibly have pulled off. But I still have to fight myself to make sure that I’m not trying to snatch credit for anything God has done in my life or ministry.

The goal of Christian leadership, after all, is not to get people to follow you. It’s to get people to follow Jesus.

If the battle against pride isn’t daily, pride will win.

A second way that arrogance creeps in is when Christians falsely characterize Christian maturity as knowledge.

If you listened to many in the church these days, you’d think knowledge equals maturity. The more you know, the more mature you are.

Scripture suggests that’s a false test. After all, as Paul points out, knowledge puffs up; love builds up.

Knowledge makes you arrogant. Love fosters humility.

As a leader, I need to be daily transformed by love and humility. When I do that, I resist the devil.

Knowledge makes you arrogant. Love fosters humility. Click To Tweet

3. Discouragement

If you’re feeling beat up by the first two points (and in different seasons, I’ve felt beat up by both of them… well, actually, I needed to be beaten up by both of them), then you might gravitate toward another of the devil’s favourite strategies: discouragement.

Discouragement says

I’m no good.

I’m not making a difference.

I always mess up.

What’s the point?

I might as well give up.

We’ve all been there. But I believe that none of those messages are from God.

Want a little hack? Read the book of Ephesians, and everywhere it says “you” or “us”  just substitute your name. Put your name in the blanks below:

Even before he made the world, God loved _______ and chose _______ in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes. God decided in advance to adopt _______ into his own family by bringing ________ to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.

I know that’s a little cheesy, but it actually helps you battle well.

The best antidote to a lie is the truth. So ground yourself in the truth. And also in the truth about yourself.

Click To Tweet

4. Self-pity

If discouragement is left unchecked, it grows. Self-pity is discouragement on steroids.

Self-pity chisels in stone what discouragement whispers.

It tells you there is no out. That this is the way it will always be. And it simultaneously tells you it’s all your fault and none of this is your fault. Paradoxically, you believe both.

Self-pity is dangerous because it moves you to the sidelines.

Living in a state of self-pity means you don’t need anyone to take you out of the game because you’ve taken yourself out.

It’s an incredibly effective strategy and completely counter to the gospel.

The final thing self-pity does is rob us of all joy. Satan can’t steal our salvation. But he can steal our joy. And he delights in doing it.

Don’t let him.

If you really struggle with discouragement and self-pity, last year, I did a four-part series at Connexus Church, where I serve, on how to change your mind through the work of the Holy Spirit. It’s called Playback: How Changing Your Mind Can Change Your Life. You can watch it here or listen to the series via audio podcast.

Satan can't steal our salvation. But he can steal our joy. And he delights in doing it. Click To Tweet

5. The slight crossing of moral lines

Occasionally leaders move from relatively deep obedience to an extraordinary moral breach overnight, but usually, it’s far more subtle than that.

As C.S. Lewis says in the Screwtape Letters, “the safest road to hell is the gradual one – the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts.”

So how does this happen?

Often it happens when you start to compromise on the small things. Maybe you take a deduction you shouldn’t on your taxes. Or you get a little too close emotionally to someone you’re not married to. Sure… nothing happened. But deep down you know something is happening in your heart. Or maybe you just shade the truth a little in conversations to make yourself or the situation look better than they really do.

The first moral lapse is always the hardest. Then it gets easier from there.

You may be asking God for more in your life or leadership, but whenever you ask God for more, he usually asks you what you’re doing with what he’s already given you.

If you’re not faithful in the little things, you won’t be faithful in the bigger things.

Obedience may seem boring or inconvenient in the short-term, but it’s richly and deeply satisfying in the long term.

If you refuse to compromise now, it becomes much easier to resist compromise in the future.

If you're not faithful in the little things, you won't be faithful in the bigger things. Click To Tweet

Overcome the Personal Challenges You Face in Life and Leadership

Of all the books I’ve written, I’m most excited about my latest, Didn’t See It Coming: Overcoming the Seven Greatest Challenges That No One Expects and Everyone Experiences.

In it, I outline 7 issues almost every leader experiences and almost no one expects.

They’re the issues that take leaders out or take us under. And even if your struggle with cynicism, pride, burnout or irrelevance doesn’t cause to exit ministry or leadership, not dealing with those issues can still thwart your potential and kill your team culture. A lot of the book is my journey toward health. It’s a long journey…and an imperfect one. I don’t get everything right, but the difference personal and spiritual health makes is astonishing, in both life and leadership.

I wrote it to help you make progress, spiritually, personally and in leadership. I hope it will guide people in the same way my favorite books have guided me.

Check out Didn’t See It Coming for yourself here.

What do You See?

Those are 5 strategies I regularly see at work in my own life and that I see other church leaders battling against.

Again, knowing what they are is half the battle. If you don’t recognize Satan’s strategies, it’s hard to defeat them. But once you see them and hold them up to the light, they lose their power.

Obviously, this is a short list. What other strategies do you see? How are you combatting them?

Scroll down and leave a comment.


  1. RUSU TIMOTEI on August 23, 2019 at 3:15 pm

    Where did you find that God promised that He will never let HIs children to suffer?

  2. James on August 4, 2019 at 5:10 am

    An applaud to you cabezas.
    there are spiritual laws that governs answers to prayers.thus 1 pure heart 2 good motives etc

  3. Julian on May 18, 2019 at 3:05 pm

    The Devil is more honest that God because we know that the Devil lies but he is honest about it but God makes promises to help look after you protect against evil but do absolutely nothing to help fight evil instead leave you alone abandon you to the Devil who even though promise you lots things you know it not going to happen God promises you things but lies don’t give you so it comes down to this don’t trust God or Satan both lie and promise you better things

    • Mirella on June 7, 2019 at 1:08 pm

      He has already given you every weapon to fight. Wield the sword!

    • Emily on June 19, 2019 at 1:11 pm

      Very insightful am in a cult and often get called there leader..they think deceiving the whole cult evil will can it if they do that..I beat them with the truth.

    • Lisa Cabezas on June 26, 2019 at 1:07 pm

      The devil is a LIAR and the FATHER of lies. He has DECIEVED you into thinking he tells TRUTH. PLEASE explain why you think God lies. Is it because you ASK and do not recieve? The Bible says if you ask and do not recieve it is because you are asking with the wrong MOTIVE. I suggest you READ Scripture if you have it, and ask God for help UNDERSTANDING. I do not know you or your situation so please do not think I am being mean…I am not.😊🎶🌹

      • Julian on June 29, 2019 at 7:42 am

        I don’t think you are being mean thank you for replying 😊. .. I read the Bible but it’s all a lie 😭.. if Satan is the father of lies and we know then he is telling the truth but if God is honest and truthful why do he not act this way I ask right motive not for me but others. He says he will never ever let his children suffer never abandon them to evil but don’t to anything to help so he has abandoned me and others given me to Satan so there for he lies and Satan tells truth because he always lie and we know 😭😭

        • Charles on July 8, 2019 at 10:50 am

          Mark 13:13 and 1 peter 4:14 then after you read pray 🙂 God will speak to you 🙂

        • RUSU TIMOTEI on August 23, 2019 at 3:14 pm

          Where did you find that God propimed that He will never let HIs children to suffer?

    • EG LUAL on July 15, 2019 at 12:21 am

      Our God of heaven is not a liar, he is honest,kind, love and mercy so we believed in him alone because he is our refuge but Satan is a liar. Therefore; if you believed in Satan then wait for your destruction.

  4. Ronnie Tabor on April 23, 2019 at 7:45 am

    Great article Carey and a timely one indeed.

    • Sojouner truth on May 7, 2019 at 5:57 pm

      I want you all to understand that satan comes from the church. You might say how do I know well, i was in a church who said they have power with God. The only problem was the pastor wanted yo believe that everyone should not go to heaven. He focused in on a new young woman with children and acted at times he wanted her there. He would pray lay hands bit in his heart he held against her his dislikes of her for her admiration for Christ. He used messages preached from the pulpit to decieve her by always focusing on the bad in the bad and sometimes make side eye movements towards her that he was thinking about her. He never old her how he felt about her. The girl grew extremly depreSsed. She sought out his leader Tamara Bennett she thought she could trust her to make her free from the witch craft he was doing to her. Tamara a charismatic pastor in California. Tamara had once told the girl she could help. But little did she know the girl went to her for help but instead believe the lies the pastor had told Tamara. Tamara a known pastor and specializes in prayer and serves a diety that has since past away Estella Boyd. This is where she gets all her power from and wealth from. She believes more of her than she does on Christ. Well to make a long story short she sent satan upon the girl. She showed up in her dreams. The girl was connected to the girl because she spent years in the pastor church and she would often come to visit. The girl was already down trodden and weak from the pastor mistreating her. Tamara prayed to her god estella and they sent Satan on the girl. The girl was innocent but know one wanted to believe her. Thr girl believed and thought she was worshiping Jesus and the whole trinity. But she did not know there was something sinister about Tamara. Tamara stole her soul away and Estella sold her to satan. The girl never knew in advance the plans the pastor had on her. The girl did leave his church but the evil did not come about until after she left (cult). Gary was satan and needed a sacrifice to get he way back to heaven. He is a evil being. Tamara Bennent is still preaching today in California. Shes is very manupulative, con artist to still whatever she wants from your soul. You will see her in your dreams and they will use signs around you to believe. She is a very dangerous soul. She believes she is Christ so becareful. Yes she had amazing powers to do wataver she wants.
      The girl now suffers depression, evil spirits and lives worst than she could had ever imagined. satan comes from these churches and someone will usually pray him their way or becareful how someone is quick to call someone a demon or devil, using a strong demanding voice when they say it. Its a curse their sending up on that person. These people are worse than real witches, so be carefull.

      • Bro on May 8, 2019 at 2:45 am

        I don’t know this comment system….

        Do you read the new testament regularly?

        Have you repented of your wrongs, and asked God for forgiveness?

        Believed Jesus rose from the dead and has been given the power over all.

        Do you believe that through His sacrifice ( His shed blood) is everything we need to be declared righteous by God?

        Have you received the Holy Spirit? (Luke 11:13)

        Have you dedicated your life to God through baptism?

        Have you sought out believers?

        1 Timothy 4:7
        [7]But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

        We need to be careful what we believe.

        Satan has no power unless you give it by Faith.

        When your faith in the true Jesus,
        Yeshua (the salvation of “Yah”)
        the promised Messiah
        the son of God
        born of the Virgin Mary
        the Nazarene
        the only begotten son of God
        Perfect and sinless
        who sacrificed himself as the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world

        The true word of God In the Flesh who has been given by God all power and has defeated Satan, then you are able to ask God in His name, and He will deliver you or your friend.

        All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

        Unless you believe I am he you will die in your sins.
        The work of God believe on him whom he sent.

        All power has been given me therefore go into all nations preaching repentance and remission of sins in my name baptizing in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit making disciples of all Nations teaching them to observe all things I’ve commanded

        • Carla Charles on June 2, 2019 at 9:55 am

          I realized, I to was discouraged due to backsliding.
          Overcome evil with Good!

      • IUnderstand on July 26, 2019 at 3:47 pm

        I went to this church you are talking about and have recently studied Estella Boyd to try to figure out who is this “spiritual mother” that birthed Juanita Bynum and Pastor Bennett out. The fruits that have come out of this ministry through the Pastor you have named have been really bad. Many have been negatively effected by her. One time she brought old towels that Estella Boyd used back in the day to pray for people. It did feel like an ungodly reverence of this women in the church. But now people worship Bennett and it is so sad and depressing. The world does not know, but the people that go to that church or used to be there know.

  5. Scott on April 22, 2019 at 9:15 am

    3 out of 5 in my life on Easter Saturday. No kidding.

  6. Richard Z on April 21, 2019 at 7:34 pm

    Thanks Carey. Have been reading your work and enjoying the podcast for a few years and I’m so grateful to God for your encouragement and perspective.

  7. 'Sergio on April 21, 2019 at 5:48 pm

    Thank you for your words of wisdom, they ministered to my present situation, praying for you and your ministry, Lord bless you and your team abundantly.

  8. LATA CHOLA CAPHAS on February 17, 2019 at 9:20 am

    I really enjoyed and appreciated this piece of writing which has enriched me so much. I found it as I was researching on the teachings on spiritual warfare in the church and this information was so helpful to me because it widened my scope of how to fight the devil, unlike just to cast out demons which keep coming back in the same people. Indeed we need holistic approach to teach about the devil. Thanks very much.

    • Kaye on April 21, 2019 at 9:07 am

      I do not have a social media account so had to leave a comment here. I could not agree more–it’s the little things that begin to seep into my soul that damage my relationship with God. This Easter, I sit thinking how much harder it is to hold hope as relationships and distorted thinking make my efforts seem increasingly futile. I seek solace when I can in Christ’s word. Thank you for this message today: I needed it.

      • Brock Jackson on May 8, 2019 at 2:41 am

        Do you read the new testament regularly?

        Have you repented of your wrongs, and asked God for forgiveness?

        Believed Jesus rose from the dead and has been given the power over all.

        Do you believe that through His sacrifice ( His shed blood) is everything we need to be declared righteous by God?

        Have you received the Holy Spirit? (Luke 11:13)

        Have you dedicated your life to God through baptism?

        Have you sought out believers?

        1 Timothy 4:7
        [7]But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

        We need to be careful what we believe.

        Satan has no power unless you give it by Faith.

        When your faith in the true Jesus,
        Yeshua (the salvation of “Yah”)
        the promised Messiah
        the son of God
        born of the Virgin Mary
        the Nazarene
        the only begotten son of God
        Perfect and sinless
        who sacrificed himself as the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world

        The true word of God In the Flesh who has been given by God all power and has defeated Satan, then you are able to ask God in His name, and He will deliver you or your friend.

        All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

        Unless you believe I am he you will die in your sins.
        The work of God believe on him whom he sent.

        All power has been given me therefore go into all nations preaching repentance and remission of sins in my name baptizing in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit making disciples of all Nations teaching them to observe all things I’ve commanded

  9. Jeremy Thomas on January 21, 2019 at 7:51 am

    I completely agree that Satan’s winning lottery card is division… but among the main strategies (which is perhaps also connected to division) is individualism & materialism.

    In Acts 4:32, they were all one heart and one mind and NOBODY was saying ‘this is mine’.

    Most Christians have lost the ‘we don’t own anything’ mindset… and this is why we are divided and have difficulties to share what God has put within our hands. It is always easier to share what is not ours but we forgot that everything is for God and his kingdom.

    The reason for ‘division’ is in the word itself ‘divided vision’ so let’s have the same vision that Jesus taught us… which is: We want to see God’s name be sanctified, may his reign comes and may his will be done on earth as it is in heaven! And this is not possible until we see love & unity within the Body of Christ

    • Nobody on April 23, 2019 at 1:08 pm

      Kingdom divided cannot stand.

      Most reason in the past for splits has been selfish ambition.
      Leaders “knowing” and making a knowledge stand, this dividing those who fear consequences (making it a word of God faith, and salvational issue), or who believe like that leader, or follow the leader blind obedience.

      Some is a leader in a transgression/fault with a congregation and creates a new system, with a difference and distinctions and thinks he can do it better. We all need to heed James 3:1.

      My opinion is the lack of following God’s Word concerning discipline of the members. 1 Tim 5:20, rebuking those who sin, 1 Cor 5:11, 2 Thess. 3:6, 14-15 and not associating with those who are disobedient and walk disorderly.

      Tithes 3:10-11 talks about heretics are to be put out after two times. Wow. Talk about being of the same mind (Rom. 12:16, 1 Cor. 1:10, Phil. 2:2, 4:2, 1 Pet. 3:8)

      How to escape the corruption in the world (lust)? The Spirit of God. (2 Pet. 1:4).
      Ephesians 4:3,7,12-16
      [3]Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
      [7]But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
      [12]For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
      [13]Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
      [14]That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
      [15]But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
      [16]From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

      2 Timothy 2:22-26

      Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
      But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
      And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
      In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
      And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

      We are to love every brother and not create imaginary divisions. Either they have the Spirit or don’t, and I cannot judge another Master’s servant, unless I see fruit that is displeasing and I may speak the truth in love in Spirit of James 5:20. None can say Jesus is Lord except by the Spirit. (1 John 3:14,16; 1 John 4:21- 5:1)
      We must love those also born of God also connected to Jesus through the living Spirit of God. In loving them, you also show love to the Lord. They (those outside) will know you are my disciples by your love (agape) for one another. (Jn. 13:35) Echoed in Jn 15:12, 15:17; Rom. 12:10, 13:8; Gal 5:13; Eph 4:2; 1 Thess. 3:12, 4:9; Heb. 10:24; 1 Pet. 1:22, 3:8; 1 Jn. 3:11, 3:23, 4:7, 4:11-12; 2 Jn. 1:5.

  10. Moses Kiyemba. on June 2, 2018 at 5:29 pm

    Am a pastor in Kampala Uganda. My ministry is only a month old. I found this website while making some research about church leadership.

    I want to appreciate you for sharing such great insight. Am so blessed.

    Moses Kiyemba.

    • Lisa Cabezas on June 26, 2019 at 1:14 pm

      GOD Bless you! Lord keep this man, his family and his church family safe! Lead him in Your TRUTH to pull MANY out of DARKNESS! Thank You Lord! YOU ARE GOOD. Amen!🎶🌹😊

  11. Lee Willis on November 26, 2016 at 10:44 am

    Great article, Carey. I appreciate the balanced perspective. Another tactic we see a lot of is comfortableness. When the enemy can get the church to feel like everything is good. We are living the American dream, nice house, nice neighborhood, nice family life, nice cars, nice life… go to church on Sunday, or every other or so… just keep the status quo. Maybe read a verse or two of scripture a day, and pray before dinner, on holidays, anyway.
    Too many church attendees have that perspective of life is good, don’t upset the apple cart.
    Closely related is: family first. It’s a subtle lie that’s easy for people to buy into – sounds so nice.

  12. Weekend Leadership Roundup - Hope's Reason on November 26, 2016 at 10:28 am

    […] The Devil’s 5 Favourite Strategies: Church Leader Edition – Carey Nieuhof […]

  13. Rob Clark on November 26, 2016 at 10:04 am

    Thank you for this! The simple reminder that there is an enemy using these tactics against us is encouraging. When I forget that, I sink deeper into self-pity and/or arrogance. For me, those two strategies seem to be two sides of the same coin.

    I love the “cheesy” Ephesians hack. Another tool that I don’t use nearly enough is having someone I can be brutally honest and painfully open with. Choosing the right confidant can help neutralize Satan’s strategies.

  14. Mike on November 25, 2016 at 4:02 pm

    Hi Carey. I would second your first two points and move them into a bit more of the concrete.

    Do you see a division in church between clergy and laity that ought not be there? I’m specifically referring to paid and unpaid people that comprise the local church.

    In listening to leadership podcasts (yours included) I hear a lot of interviews with “movers and shakers.” Have you considered interviewing everyday folk, people that are just living life and not concerned about leading? When leaders interview leaders it feels, to quote Titanic, “Masters of the universe congratulating each other.”

    Just my perspective… hopefully not too frank. And hopefully not contributing to #3.

    • Carey Nieuwhof on November 26, 2016 at 9:32 am

      Hey Mike,

      Thanks for this. I’m not sure I see a divines between clergy and laity at least in my mind. At our church, everyone works together to move the mission forward.

      In terms of the leadership podcast…appreciate the comments. Of course, it’s a leadership podcast so I’m going to talk to leaders. However, you’ll notice the majority of my guests aren’t ‘famous’. They’re just leaders making a difference where they’re working. I’m committed to keeping it a blend of people you’ve heard of and people most people don’t know.

      • Mike on November 26, 2016 at 2:28 pm

        Thanks Carey.

        On the clergy/laity divide what I see is an imbalance of financial and auditory exchange. Laity gives finances and passive listening attention. Clergy consumes finances and empty auditory space.

        In my company, management and employees are working towards a common goal. We have different responsibilities and activities but we’re all being paid and rise or fall on the success of our product. Management actually hinders progress to the degree they keep distracting with talking about the work rather than facilitating the work happening. The best managers are almost invisible because they’re making sure the work is front and center, not them.

        In the church it seems like there is a top-heavy scenario where leaders receive compensation, attention and honor at the expense of those they are leading. For me, it seems like there is a correlation with pastors and managers. Pastors ought to be shepherding the work, meaning facilitating the Body work, going unnoticed because each member is edifying each other. That does not seem the case in the church today where the pastor is front and center.

Leave a Comment

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.