A Response To Christians Who Are Done With Church

You hear it all the time.

I’m done with church.

I don’t really need to go to church…my relationship with God is personal.

I’ve had it with organized religion.

The church is a man-made invention, not God’s idea.

I completely understand why a growing number of people are bailing on church. Even people who used to lead in the church often stop attending (here are 9 reasons why church leaders do that).

We’ve spent a lot of time working through the issue of declining church attendance (and growing disillusionment with the church) on this blog and in my leadership podcast. (For a summary of the issues, here’s a piece on the 10 reasons even committed church attenders are attending church less often).

I get it.

The church is far from perfect. Life is complex. There are growing options. And the post-modern mind distrusts most things organized or institutional.

But as trendy as the idea of writing off the church may be, it’s a mistake.

While writing off the church passes as sophisticated thinking, it’s actually the opposite; what if it’s a simplistic and even reductionistic line of thinking that leads nowhere constructive?

The church isn’t even biblical, is it?

People argue the idea of church isn’t even biblical.

So let’s start with the basics.

First if you’re a Christian, church is not something you go to. It’s something you are.

You can’t disassociate from church as a Christian anymore than you can disassociate from humanity as a person.

You don’t go to church. You are the church.

Second, the church was not a human invention. Half-reading the New Testament with one eye closed will still lead you to the inescapable conclusion that the church was God’s idea.

In fact, most of the New Testament is not about the teachings of Jesus. It’s about the work of the church that Jesus initiated and ordained. I won’t fill this post with scripture verses that prove my point, because, quite frankly, you’d have to get rid of the majority of the New Testament to argue that the church was a parenthetical, made-up organization.

If you want to get rid of the church, you also need to get rid of Jesus.

You can’t have one without the other.

Maybe what bothers you should actually amaze you

I understand that the idea of the church being imperfect makes some people despair.

But rather than making us despair, the fact that Jesus started the church with imperfect people should make us marvel at God’s incredible grace.

That God would use ordinary, broken human beings as vessels of his grace, and delight in it is awe-inspiring. He’s proud of how his grace is beating through your imperfect-but-redeemed life and through the church (have you ever read Ephesians 3: 10-11?).

The idea that God would use you and me is pretty amazing. He had other options.

He could have spoken to the world directly, but instead chose to use broken people to showcase his grace to a world in need of redemption.

For sure, community is messy.

People sin. Leaders are sinful.

Most of the New Testament is not a story of an idealized church where everything worked perfectly all the time (just read 1 Corinthians any time you’re frustrated with your church).

Most of the New Testament is a story of Jesus using his followers to spread his love in spite of themselves and as they overcome obstacle after obstacle.

The fact that Christ uses flawed people to accomplish his work on earth is actually a sign of his grace, not a sign of his absence.

The church’s story, as twisted as it gets at times, is a beautiful story of God’s grace, God’s power and God’s redemption.

So, by the way, is your life, which reflects the story of the church more than you would want to admit.

The church gives the world a front row seat to the grace of God.

The ultimate consumerism isn’t going to church…it’s walking away from it

People criticize the church today as being consumeristic. And to some extent, churches cater to consumerism—often to our detriment. I agree that consumerism is a problem for Christianity.

But ironically, much of the dialogue about why people are done with church pushes people deeper into Christian consumerism than it pushes them into deeper discipleship: Here I am, all alone, worshipping God on my schedule when it’s convenient for me.

Listening to a podcast of your favourite preacher while you’re at the gym or on the back deck and pushing three of your favourite worship songs through your ear buds does not make you a more passionate Christ follower.

It usually makes you a less effective one.

Disconnecting yourself from community is actually less faithful than connecting yourself to a flawed community.

If you think the church today isn’t enough (and arguably, we need to reform it), then do what the early Christians did.

If you want a more biblical church…don’t gather weekly, gather daily. Before dawn.

Get up before the sun rises to pray together with other Christians before you go to work. Pool your possessions. Don’t claim anything as your own.

Be willing to lose your job, your home, your family and even your life because you follow Jesus.

Then you’ll be more authentic.

And notice that the early church did indeed gather. 

Gathering always leads to some form of organizing.

To pretend the church doesn’t need to be organized is as logical arguing that society doesn’t need to be organized.

Because community is inevitable, organization is inevitable.

Our ability to organize and to accomplish more together than we can alone is one of the crowning achievements of humanity, and our ability to work together makes Christian effort far more effective. 

It’s also part of God’s design for how we should interact while we’re on this planet. Come to think of it, heaven is a community too.

The only one who wants us to believe that we are better off alone is our enemy.

If you really think about it, it’s actually a very clever tactic.

The church has helped even those who resent the church

Finally, if you’re reading this article and you have any modicum of faith in Jesus, may I suggest your faith is actually the result of the mission of the church.

Very few people come to know Jesus because he appears to them supernaturally when they are alone and calls them by name.

Does that ever happen? Sure. But not to 99.9% of us.

Almost all of us who follow Jesus have had our lives changed by a flawed body called the church that Jesus so passionately loves and calls his own.

Think about that.

We need more church

Do we need more churches? Yes.

Do we need more humble churches? We do.

Do you we need authentic, transparent leadership? Absolutely.

Does the church need to change? Without a doubt.

The church needs continual reformation and transformation.

So what will the future look like?

Will we gather in quite the way we do today in the future? In some ways yes; in others, no.

Hopefully we gather more frequently and work through our differences at a deeper level and impact our communities more powerfully.

These two posts offer 10 predictions about future church attendance and 11 traits of churches that will impact the future.

But regardless of how the church gathers in the future, we will gather…we need to gather.

We Christians need each other, probably now more than ever.

And even if you don’t think you need other Christians, I promise you you do, and so does our world.

Now, more than ever, the world needs Christian working together humbly under Christ to lead people into a growing relationship with him, in whatever innovate and fresh forms that takes.

The church is not dead.

Far from it.

Maybe it’s just beginning to take shape for a brand new era that desperately needs it.

1,294 Comments

  1. Mansha on January 23, 2019 at 2:23 am

    Believe in Holy Spirit! the church as the body of Christ made up of believers in Jesus Christ, the communion of the saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.

  2. talitha cumi on January 23, 2019 at 12:35 am

    FESSDO: A silly screen name for a very arrogant and psychotic blogger on here who targets women with insults. He can’t debate; all he can do is revile and accuse the godly of being ungodly. He has a very high opinion of himself (“I have a good heart”, he writes in one post). May God the Lord have mercy on this man’s dark soul. BTW if you are seeking intelligent repartee on this blog, move on. There is very, very little worth reading.

    • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 8:17 am

      talitha cumi,
      What can wash away your sins?
      Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

  3. talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 7:50 pm

    CAVEAT EMPTOR: There is a man on here by the name of ‘Fessdo’ who makes rude and inappropriate comments to people. He accused me of being a child of the devil. He has written rude things to others but that comment to me takes the cake. I guess he projects his own insecurities and spiritual issues on others, but he should not be tolerated.

    • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 8:46 pm

      Talitha,
      Galatians 4:16 King James Version (KJV)
      Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

    • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 9:00 pm

      Talitha,
      Luke 13:32 Easy-to-Read Version
      Jesus said to them, “Go tell that fox, ‘Today and tomorrow I am forcing demons out of people and finishing my work of healing. Then, the next day, the work will be finished.’

      Is calling someone “a fox” rude?

      • talitha cumi on January 23, 2019 at 12:10 am

        You’re a troll and you need to really be careful how you handle the Word because you are also an heretic. Don’t bother writing distorted scripture in my direction, ignoramus. And, you compare your stupid post re: Herod to the words of Jesus Christ? What arrogant blasphemy. You targeted me because I am educated and know how to present my case, whatever the case may be. I picture you as a drunk; unattractive, slovenly, disrespectful, lower spectrum intellectually, not saved by Christ, and an accuser of the brethren. You’re probably on the internet all day because you don’t work. How much porn do you watch? You don’t really like women, especially smart ones.
        You started it up with the blogger named Koo also; a horrible comment about cremation. I am going to report you to the webmaster. LOL! You DO need a kindergarten easy to read baby bible because you are unable to comprehend the King’s English!

        • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 8:09 am

          taliha?
          Good morning hun, I think I’m in love here I just love a gal you don’t hold back with what she says. I have had people cuss, spit, and even swing at me when I say the word Jesus, there’s something about that name the makes devil filled people go off. I can always tell a Christian by the way they handle an insult. People who are born again are dead in Christ
          (Colossians 3:2-4 Living Bible 2. Let heaven fill your thoughts; don’t spend your time worrying about things down here. 3. You should have as little desire for this world as a dead person does. Your real life is in heaven with Christ and God. 4. And when Christ who is our real life comes back again, you will shine with him and share in all his glories.)
          so Tal you can not insult a dead person. I beg you read about Jesus, study about Jesus, ask Jesus to come into you heart and be saved. If you need some pointers here don’t be a shamed to ask we all are ignorant about something .
          Have a nice day,
          Fessdo

  4. Robert on January 22, 2019 at 12:35 am

    This is one example of my church related or church leader related bad experience/s. I bought a business from john westfal he was a student at bbc college in springfield mo. He wanted to sell his business so bad that he was willing to lie to the bank to force my loan to go through. (I have more details and a tape recorded confession from john ) after a few months the business was repossessed because of johns lies. This left a fellow Christian (me) without transportation and basically no income. I am still faced with paying a dept of over 25 thousand dollars from 2006 to current. I guess my point is…. We are people no matter the title we have and my bad experience was because of a man and even though he is now head pastor of a church near greenbush newyork i cant justify not going to church and i cant blame God for johns actions. We should stand tall and continue as loving God fearing Christians meeting together even if it seems dificult to do. I have mixed emotions about organized religion but i will never doubt the power of fellowship among believers. I find it to be more edifying to keep my eyes open foe Gods apointed visits whether it be with christian fellowship or to be used as a vessel to deliver a message to the lost and this rarely ever happened behind the walls of a so called church. To many churches today are focused primarily on high attendance mostly for the larger amounts of money in an offering plate. I was invited to a nearby church but before i went found that one of the things they asked for upon making you a member was your full financial history. What? When has that ever been a requirement? Are they saying only financially sound people are capable of true worship?? This is also a huge problem that will turn non believers and new believers away from a ” place of worship ” . anyone struggling with this issue should keep in mind God wants your heart…not your wallet…although He has asked us to give to Him with a cheerful heart. He asked us to do this not because Hes broke and needs us to pay His way but to see if we trust Him and can be faithful to Him no matter were we are financially. I would be enclined to speak anywhere in the united states as long as safety messures have been taken and will deliver a message to the “church” of today in hopes to change the focus from money back to souls. I am not a great person and have not lived the best life and am now disabled and life has become even more dificult. My faith no doubt has been tested and no matter what i do, think, or say i always know He is there. If i dare i would like to say one more thing… How many denominations are there? How many of them preach the same thing? How many of them childishly criticize other denominations? Why do denominational differences create divisions in the body of believers? Is the body of christ singular or plural? ONE GOD! ONE SAVIOR! ONE BELIEF!

    • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 8:55 am

      Robert,
      Your comment really spoke to me this morning, it’s good to know I’m not the only sucker in this world. Funny but I never ever would have thought how trying to help the church years ago could effect my life so negatively years later. Like you I had a good heart and good intentions but we are the kind of people greedy leaders thrive on. I now know what Jesus was talking about when He said “there’s none good” and that includes me. It did help me cause when I stopped trying to show people my goodness and started showing them Jesus and His goodness their came a peace that passed all understanding over me. I no longer have to work on showing people how good Fessdo is I just have to show them Jesus and what he has done for them.
      With this knowledge of people it’s fun to mess with their greedy minds, the more greedier the more fun. I have years or experience in car repair and everyone has car problems, so when I go to a new church the first thing many will ask is “what you do for a living”. Knowing people I say I repair cars and it never fails they will say “good I know where to bring my car when it needs repair” I smile real big then I say I appreciate that and I love working on Christians cars cause they want to be like Christ and be blessing and want to help out a fellow Christian, so I’ll just charge you $85hr instead of my usual $75hr I know you want to bless me. But they never smile back they just walk off????

      • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 7:38 pm

        Look here Fessdo, I never addressed you or your posts because your comments are ignorant and foul. You said I’m acting like my father the devil. Wow. You have lots more nerve than I do, writing such to someone you know nothing about. Maybe you committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by writing that. Go see where Jesus mentions that unpardonable sin. He was accused of doing His miracles by the power of Satan. What you wrote about me is basically along the same line of thought. I am filled with the Holy Spirit and my father is not the devil. I feel pity for you. Don’t bother to reply. Guys like you are another reason I run from ‘church’…….no better than creepy bar-flies. You need to be reported to the webmaster.

        • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 8:39 pm

          Talitha,
          According to Jesus, the unpardonable or unforgivable sin is unique. It is the one iniquity that will never be forgiven (“never” is the meaning of “either in this age or in the age to come” in Matthew 12:32). The unforgivable sin is blasphemy (“defiant irreverence”) of the Holy Spirit in the context of the Spirit’s work in the world through Christ. In other words, the particular case of blasphemy seen in Matthew 12 and Mark 3 is unique. The guilty party, a group of Pharisees, had witnessed irrefutable evidence that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, yet they claimed that He was possessed by the prince of demons, Beelzebul (Matthew 12:24; Mark 3:30).

          The Jewish leaders of Jesus’ day committed the unpardonable sin by accusing Jesus Christ (in person, on earth) of being demon-possessed. They had no excuse for such an action. They were not speaking out of ignorance or misunderstanding. The Pharisees knew that Jesus was the Messiah sent by God to save Israel. They knew the prophecies were being fulfilled. They saw Jesus’ wonderful works, and they heard His clear presentation of truth. Yet they deliberately chose to deny the truth and slander the Holy Spirit. Standing before the Light of the World, bathed in His glory, they defiantly closed their eyes and became willfully blind. Jesus pronounced that sin to be unforgivable.

          The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, specific as it was to the Pharisees’ situation, cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth, and no one can personally see Jesus perform a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit. The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in his rejection of Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ.

          God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.

          Many people fear they have committed some sin that God cannot or will not forgive, and they feel there is no hope for them, no matter what they do. Satan would like nothing more than to keep people laboring under that misconception. God gives encouragement to the sinner who is convicted of his sin: “Come near to God and he will come near to you” (James 4:8). “Where sin increased, grace increased all the more” (Romans 5:20). And the testimony of Paul is proof positive that God can and will save anyone who comes to Him in faith (1 Timothy 1:12–17). If you are suffering under a load of guilt today, rest assured that you have not committed the unpardonable sin. God is waiting with open arms. Jesus’ promise is that “he is able to save completely those who come to God through him” (Hebrews 7:25). Our Lord will never fail. “Surely God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid. The LORD, the LORD himself, is my strength and my defense; he has become my salvation” (Isaiah 12:2).

          • talitha cumi on January 23, 2019 at 12:22 am

            Wow, what an impressive exposition of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit! You are indeed a crafty little thing; at once nasty and rude, then you turn into Charles Spurgeon. That sin can still be committed today. Satanists commit it all day long, ya think?
            By saying that my father is the devil, you are calling a born again, Holy Spirit filled Christian a child of the devil. In other words, you are saying that I am devil-filled, not Spirit filled. Same thing they accused Christ of doing/being. Is it the fact that I am an Hebrew that got your goat? Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit! Guilty as charged! You know NOTHING about me and none of my posts offended anyone but YOU. Anyone can cut/paste a load of Scripture and throw it up on this forum. You seem very lost and to be pitied…



          • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 8:24 am

            talitha cumi,
            What can make you whole again?
            Nothing but the blood of Jesus.



    • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 3:32 pm

      Sir, your comments are good. Never forget that we are now in the age of apostasy that Christ Himself warned us to discern. I have also had highly placed church leaders do abominable things to me. I didn’t blame the Lord but I was soundly turned off. Also, when so-called believers look at me as if I’m some ‘new thing’ because I’m an Hebrew Christian, this is disturbing. Are they not aware that Christ was the FIRST Hebrew Christian? Come on here! The geschtalt of the church scene is getting worse, not better. Would I love to fellowship with like minded believers? Yes! However, it seems that no two Christians can agree on any one thing when they gather! I tried Hebrew Christian fellowships and found they were Judaising the faith back to Mosaic Law. How confusing. I am reading from Genesis straight through to Revelation at this point in my trusty King James Bible and see amazing truths from His great and glorious counsel. I miss making friends at church, as I did back in the 70s. It’s difficult for me to make friends in church now. It’s become entirely too worldly and everyone wants to argue. I prefer to debate. But I digress. Christ warned us of the coming end times apostasy, so no real believer should be the least surprised. Give no place to the devil and persevere no matter what. Maranatha

      • koo on January 22, 2019 at 4:03 pm

        Both sides of my family made cemetaries for family & community. Both ended up in the hands of church & extended family. Both ended up causing heartbreak to family because suddenly we weren’t pure enough to be in our own family cemetary. So what if someone switched from Lutheran to Catholic? So once apon a time I was wealthy, having 2 places to rest. Our plots were sold to people who were “pure” enough & we never received restitution so that we might go elsewhere & the only way we will ever get answers is if we go the attorney route which of course we aren’t going to do. Now those family who have stayed in the area & stayed with the church refuse to even talk to us. They know we want our family plots. They chose church over blood so now we also have no family because a small piece of land & money & their church that preaches hate of other denominations of Christianity is most important – plus that guilty concience. So from my perspective churches preach & practice just as much hate as they do love. They have sure done a number on my family from both sides. Fessdo I have to admit you R funny but right – always notice that Christian rental cost more but Christian work pays less – forced poverty vs voluntary vow of.

        • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 4:56 pm

          koo,
          You ever heard of cremation, as bitter as you are you’ll go real quick.

      • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 4:52 pm

        Talitha,
        Who pissed in your toasties this morning, or are you acting like your father the devil?

        • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 7:54 pm

          CAVEAT EMPTOR: There is a man on here by the name of ‘Fessdo’ who makes rude and inappropriate comments to people. He accused me of being a child of the devil. He has written rude things to others but that comment to me takes the cake. I guess he projects his own insecurities and spiritual issues on others, but he should not be tolerated.

          • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 8:26 pm

            “let the buyer beware” You funny, oh one more thing ” get thee behind me talitha in the name of Jesus”



  5. Billy on January 21, 2019 at 5:48 pm

    “God is love.” So you are saved by having faith in Love which leads to loving. Its that simple regardless of your church. Otherwise billions will go to hell, and God desires NONE to go to hell. KIS–Keep it simple because man is simple minded–which is why there are so many faiths & wrong opinions. Man makes a mess out of everything under the sun.

    • fessdo on January 21, 2019 at 5:56 pm

      Wild Bill,
      Don’t leave out Jesus.
      John 14:6 King James Version Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 3:42 pm

      Billy, your comment is misguided. We are saved by grace through faith. God is love but He is also a consuming fire. Never forget that. God desires none to go to hell yet they will go because, well, just read the Parable of the Tares and the Wheat in the KJB. Christ really explains it so much better than I can. Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, is really His child. Go ahead, read the parable. It’s never preached because it’s so PITHY.

  6. stung!!! on January 20, 2019 at 8:25 am

    Did anyone else hear the Fifth trumpet of God Almighty sound when oil wells were lit ablaze during “Operation Desert Storm”?
    During the Gulf War when all the oil wells were lit ablaze I was attacked by a demon on three separate occasions all at night. This is what happened. While I slept a demon flew through my window and attack me. The spirit inside me fought this demon briefly until I awoke. Then it made me take over. I leaped out of bed trying to defend myself. This demon was horrid and spun circles around me thrashing through my soul with its hands, then it left as fast as it came. The demon radiated from the pains associated with the abyss. He was like a coal pulled from the fire, with the pains of the abyss Rev 9, 3. This attack happened on three separate occasions as I have stated. all on separate nights during the time frame when the oil wells had been lit ablaze in the Middle East. The third time it attacked me however was different from the rest. As before the demon attacked me, but this time I had enough since to command it to leave in the name of Jesus Christ. What happened next is even more amazing. After commanding this demon to leave in the name of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit delivered me outside my bedroom into the hallway. The demon followed. We were brought into the presence of the Lord. The Demon stood to my left and grabbing my hand, it placed its tail on top of my left hand. It was the sting of the scorpion and it went like this. It sent waves of fire through my soul Rev 9, 10. The pain was so sever that I couldn’t scream. Unconditionally, I looked straight up and said “Father please help me”. The demon then left.
    This all happened after being seduced into trying transcendental meditation, which caused spiritual bondage to witchcraft / demonic forces. Maybe the spiritual bondage occurred after playing a Ouija board or Tarot cards as a young boy. I’m not quite sure. They appeared at that time just to be games, and were sold in the kids section at stores or at least the Ouija board was. I had a lot of spiritual warfare after participating in these so called “games”. What I am sure of is that prior to being attacked by this demon, I was forced to go through the Illuminati’s esoteric initiation performed through altered states of consciousness / transcendental meditation assisted with witchcraft / demonic forces. Why I say demonic forces is that I believe all witchcraft to be the powers of demons / the Devil. I was forced to go through said esoteric initiation through methods including witchcraft, demonology, and subversive acts of terrorism. The methods of witchcraft included mind control / manipulation, heart palpitations, witchcraft dreams causing sleep depravation, powerful visions, and many other forms. In said ceremony I was instructed to except the worship of one of their many “demonic gods”. They informed me that in excepting one of there gods I accepted them all. One of there gods was the Devil, another they named Jesus, but they appeared to have a demon for every occasion. They informed me through methods of telepathy , that in accepting the worship of one, I accepted them all. What better way to join all religions of the world together under one banner of 666 spiritually enslaving society?
    David Spengler of the United Nations says that all people must go through a esoteric initiation and worship Lucifer to enter the New Age of Enlightenment. Helen Blavatsky calls it a Christ like consciousness, universal mind set. Benjamin Cream states that after said initiation all its members will be able to hear ancient wisdom spoken telepathically at the same moment by ascended Masters. I knew nothing of this group at that time or there Luciferian agenda of a One World Government. Take a guess what method is used for this initiation? I bet you know now. Have you heard of the New Age Movement, or its affiliation with “Free” Masonry? Do you know what a unholy baptism is or the term Kundalini.
    To the best of my knowledge this is the method Satan’s Secret Society uses to distribute the “spiritual mark of the beast”, and cause spiritual captivity Revelation 13, 10. Have you received your spiritual stamp of acceptance? If so, did you take it on the forehead becoming a spiritual slave of evil, or on the right hand a servant of the Devil himself? Does this sound hard to believe? Here are a few scriptures giving in sight. Revelation 13, 10, If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity they will go . This is spiritual captivity to witchcraft / demonic forces. Naham 3, 4, who enslaved nations by her witchcraft. Revelation 18, 23, By your magic spell all nations were led astray. Hebrews 2:15 states by there fear of death they are held in bondage. Witchcraft / demonic powers are very real. Thank you Jesus for the Holy spirit and your Angels.
    There is a way out, but it has been difficult for me. Revelation 12, 11, Those who overcame, overcame by the blood of the lamb and the “word” of their testimony. They didn’t love their own lives so much as to shrink from death. Hebrews 2, 15, By their fear of death they are held in spiritual captivity / bondage. Satan’s “Secret” Society isn’t very secret anymore! It is like a giant octopus with many tentacles reaching far and wide.
    Here is the rest of the story. Three to four nights later the demon returned in the early am @ about 3am. He wasn’t alone, Satan / Apollyon and the demon’s twin brother was with him. They hovered in the air above the ground, before the olive tree in our back yard. I could see them as the spirit in me manifested them to me! Satan hovered in the middle while the demons were on either side of him. The demon on his left had been thrown into the lake of fire for what he did to me. He radiated like a coal pulled from the fire what seemed to be 15’x15′. He was lit up like a Christmas tree! Graciously yours baptized by fire the witness! Who will believe this testimony? God will be my witness! Located in California. Recommended information Fake truth Movement Exposed 1-12 on you tube. It has insight into who has received the spiritual stamp on there right hand.

    • fessdo on January 20, 2019 at 9:12 am

      Stung!!!
      I did hear something when the oil wells was lit but I had eat a large bowl of beans before going to bed and just figured by the smell it was something else?
      You said “Does this sound hard to believe” at first it did till I got to the end and read “Located in California”, this confirms what I’ve always heard, that California is full of Fruits, Flakes, and Nuts.
      Fessdo

  7. Sick of smug on January 15, 2019 at 8:35 pm

    Your tone in this post and the other one about leaders who leave the church is precisely why I’ve left and won’t come back. Get off your high horse and listen with empathy for once. If you wrote this for us to read and to get us to come back, you’re failing miserably. But if you wrote this to get pats on the back from self righteous smug “christians” like yourself then I say you’ve succeeded.

    • Randy on January 20, 2019 at 7:38 am

      A lot of truth on the comments– but if you give false testimony is that lying. If I stated someone said this and that and they didn’t say these things this would be false testimony, As Mathew, mark, Luke and John, gives, not real names to their books no one knows the names of the disclpes only Paul knew them but never meet them or Jesus. The people just wrote what they would it to say. M,m,l,j where not witness of Jesus ,No. If god wanted a book hell write and give it to you not false names etc,.

  8. rodney Butler on January 3, 2019 at 1:29 pm

    Jesus said your body is the church
    Jesus said forsake not the Gathering of yourselves together in worshipping him.
    If we would use each other’s house as a worshipping place the almighty buck 4 Fortune would stop in the church

    • Son on January 3, 2019 at 2:57 pm

      You mean, like they used to do it back in the days right after God walked the earth? GREAT IDEA!
      How about you host the first meeting at your house, brother Rodney?
      I don’t think it would go over to well in the neighborhood, here where I live, anyway.
      We can’t even get a cocktail party together.
      A church provides a central gathering place for Christians who live miles away from it, but are willing to drive there anyway.
      Home worship would be great, but I think it’s impractical.

      p.s. – I guess there wouldn’t be a collection plate in other people’s houses, huh? That would eliminate the profit motive.

      What are your thoughts on this, brother fessdo?

      • Stan the plumber man on January 20, 2019 at 3:31 am

        Home is ultimately where the HEART is. Maybe the heart of christ. Old days r family members were laid out in the living room on their passing. No better place to praise our father in the same place?

    • lori on January 5, 2019 at 3:18 pm

      I am done with church too. conventional church that is. Our church went strictly by the book and then we learned that When Jesus died on the cross the old covenant Church was done away with and the new covenant in Christ began. then our church went way over board and started keeping Christmas and Easter and Holloween and all those other Pagan holidays. I spelled Holloween with an o because there is not any of Christ in it. I believe in Jesus as my savior but I will not keep holidays infused with paganism in them . it’s like taking a pile of poop and decorating it up and then expecting God to eat it. Do you want to eat fancy decorated poop on a plate? neither would I and neither would I expect God to either.

      • Chris on January 9, 2019 at 12:32 pm

        Your example is very STUPID and really doesn’t work for this situation.

        • Linda Bailey on January 13, 2019 at 5:39 am

          That is very rude of you.

      • Stu on January 9, 2019 at 2:10 pm

        Hi Lori.

        I hope you are doing well. I wanted to respond to you because initially, when I came to this site, I expressed a dim view personally about my relationship with the church. Having read so many comments here, I saw an increasing amount of bitterness in too many of the letters I read. I had a lot of unforgiveness in my own heart because of how I related, or not, to church. But it has turned my attention to Christ and no longer to me, and I returned to persevere and overcome my own messiness being just another human being like the rest of us.

        I wanted to share what I came away with in Rev 2:18-29 (Please read it). I noticed something about what I may have considered to be the worst of the worst as far as churches go, but I paid attention to the following:
        “Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): Only hold on to what you have until I come.”

        He is speaking to the ones in Thyatira who are enduring the worst spewed by all of those who are displeasing to Christ. Notice not once does he imply or tell these saints to leave—but to endure, and to receive the reward Jesus had planned for them.

        I hope you will look past so much of the garbage we see in churches today. I recall a very famous Pastor who was to deliver a sermon on a holiday (standing room only). But he fell sick, and the Junior Pastor got up to take his place. When those in the congregation heard that the Senior Pastor was ill, many got up to leave. But just as quickly the Junior Pastor asked them the following question: “Did you only come to hear the Senior Pastor speak, or did you come to hear the Word of God”? All sat down. The point Lori, is that we do not come for ourselves. We come to worship God, and also to encourage, to relate to, to admonish, and to strengthen those in the church who are believers. When Jesus made himself to be the least, he was exalted by the Most High. Jesus loved and died for his people—the Church. He told us not to forsake the assembly of God as some have been in the habit of doing. He wants us to have relationships, not religion. It is our job to overcome what is lacking, by seeking wise counsel, by reading the Word of God, by praying, and by sharing with your brothers and sisters all good things you have learned. I hope you will reconsider your feelings.

        Blessings to you.
        Stu

        • Son on January 9, 2019 at 4:14 pm

          Nice comment, brother Stu, redolent with God’s love and holy spirit! Hopefully, Lori can relate to your obviously heartfelt exhortation.

          Your bro Dave

          • Stu on January 9, 2019 at 5:11 pm

            Thx Dave. I learned a new word too (redolent). God bless you.



          • Son on January 9, 2019 at 10:08 pm

            lol, I was an English major, Stu. Must have learned a new word myself there. You have been a blessed, positive brother in Jesus in all of my interactions with you here. God bless you and keep you strong in His Spirit, my beloved brother!

            Dave



          • Son on January 9, 2019 at 10:13 pm

            Ha ha, Stu, I was an English major. Something must have stuck from my education, I guess. You have been a blessed, supportive, positive agent of The Lord in all of our interactions here on this forum. God bless you and keep you strong in His Holy Spirit, dear brother, as we wait for His Return to bring us home.

            Dave



        • Stan the plumber man on January 20, 2019 at 3:01 am

          Omg. The thoughts and words of many have aided in my refocus on CHRIST. Gotta say WWJD. Hope I can keep that as my focus in life . We r a small part but together we can rise above all obstacles. Life bumps or hurdles. Nothing 4 a high stepper. My life as nd Tim ed on earth r small but I can h dr ll many if I decide 2. God help me 2 help many. Please!

      • Mark on January 14, 2019 at 6:40 pm

        This is the day that the lord has made we will rejoice and be glad in it psalms 118:24 . Everyday is Gods creation the devilor no one have authority !! God bless

        • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 6:57 pm

          Mark please tell me where you come up with this?

      • Stan the plumber man on January 20, 2019 at 3:41 am

        To call off all church activity is like saying I cant drive because I bought a Yugo. That was your choice.Christ is our guide in a truely good life. If we r followers and guides us we may be blessed. Hopefully. If not we still r blessed in life.

    • Marcie Conant on January 5, 2019 at 3:42 pm

      Recently left my church because my pastor made ageist comments from the pulpit last Sunday. I guess he thought he was being funny but I really don’t need to be entertained with stand up comedy when I’m trying to focus on Jesus. So I,m going to start attending a group Bible study with other Seniors. However, I recently had a pastor tell me that this is no REAL church because there is no communion, accountability from the pulpit or building up of the local church.

      • Son on January 6, 2019 at 8:21 am

        Why do you need to participate in communion at a church? Can’t you eat some bread and drink some wine in His Holy Name at home? Are you Catholic?
        Mark 7:8 “For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.”
        John 4:24 “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

        His Peace be upon you, dear sister.

        Dave

        • fessdo on January 6, 2019 at 8:48 am

          Dave,
          John 4:24 was a great answer, Jesus made it so plain there.
          John 4:21-24 Living Bible (TLB)
          21-24 Jesus replied, “The time is coming, ma’am, when we will no longer be concerned about whether to worship the Father here or in Jerusalem. For it’s not where we worship that counts, but how we worship—is our worship spiritual and real? Do we have the Holy Spirit’s help? For God is Spirit, and we must have his help to worship as we should. The Father wants this kind of worship from us. But you Samaritans know so little about him, worshiping blindly, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes to the world through the Jews.”

          Fessdo

          • Son on January 6, 2019 at 4:59 pm

            Well, well, folks, guess what? I left my church this morning, never to return (at least to this particular church). Turns out the issue was a woman pastor. Now, I realize today’s society in America is obsessed with the concept of political correctness, and it’s not pc to discriminate against women. My problem with prohibiting women from being the pastor is that Paul expressed the idea that it is not approved by God for a woman to have authority over men, or at least, not in the arena of religion. You folks are savvy enough, I believe, to be familiar with the scriptures that underline the issue.
            I don’t want to be affiliated with a church that ignores the text of scripture to suit its own needs and that is why I left a church that I felt (and hoped) held promise as a means of closer fellowship for me with the body of Christ. Oh, well, Evidently I must be patient and wait on Jesus to find me the church with which He wants me to associate. Bums me out that I got my butt out of bed at 6 am, cleaned up and got dressed and then drove the 20 miles between me and that church in hopes of spending some time with Jesus and my brethren (when two or three are gathered in my name, I am there also). Coulda kept on dreaming in my warm, cozy bed instead of having to freeze my @$$ off to find out I’ve been blindsided – AGAIN!



          • fessdo on January 6, 2019 at 8:09 pm

            Could have been worse my friend could have been a man pastor and after years of you going there you find out the pastor had a sex change a year before you started.



          • Son on January 7, 2019 at 12:25 am

            Ha ha ha, fessdo, still LOVE your sense of humor! : )

            btw, I was invited to join a “bible study” meeting before the sermon began today at church. The meeting broke up and I was left sitting with another brother at the table where we had met. I asked him about “Pastor Susan” and specifically, what he thought about a female pastor, citing Paul’s admonition that women should be silent in church and ask their husband in private if they had a question about something. He got real weird, clamming up and telling me “I can’t discuss that with you.” I pressed him a little, saying, “What? Did you just say ‘you ‘can’t discuss that with me’?” His attitude became even more weird, to the point that I became uncomfortable sitting next to him. I patted him on the shoulder and remarked, “I need to use the head, nice meeting you. God bless you.” Then, I left that church, never to return. Freaked me out!



      • Stan the plumber man on January 20, 2019 at 3:48 am

        Group religion is like it says GROUP. With a mass WE CAN CONCUIRE THE WORLD OR AT LEAST THE PILE OF SHIT IN OUR OWN BACK YARD. In life it starts in our own yard. Looking to help my neighbors clean up the POOP.. WWJD?

    • JOHN on January 8, 2019 at 8:33 pm

      I like the way you put Jesus first

    • Robin on January 10, 2019 at 12:49 pm

      Amen.

    • lisa boyce on January 13, 2019 at 3:25 pm

      My husband and I no longer attend a brick and morter church building. We do attend an online church. We’re both born again, Spirit filled believers in Christ Jesus. We love the Lord with all of our hearts, soul and mind. The problem for us is there are no serious bible teaching churches, at least not in our area, at all. We rather stay home and watch our online church than be involved in a lukewarm, church that is not serious about teaching the people, or giving people a false doctrine. God is not in buildings. The pastors are not teaching repentance, nor holding people accountable for sin. Sin is not being preached in the churches at all anymore. Pastors are allowing a complacent spirit and not even giving alter calls. We went to one church and they were playing secular music. I mean very secular music. Its quite pathetic.

      • Stu on January 13, 2019 at 4:11 pm

        Dear Lisa,

        I went to church this morning; the Pastor preached on sin. When you claim, “Sin is not being preached in the churches at all anymore,” I think it is important not to make universal and dogmatic statements. It is surely an easy way to convince oneself that what he believes is true—but not necessarily what Christ believes—who loved and died for his Church. I again want to reiterate a passage in Revelation: “Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): Only hold on to what you have until I come.” Jesus sees what is going on—even in the worst of his Body, but he is not calling anyone to leave; he is asking those who stay to persevere and overcome and be rewarded for it. This was a church practicing sexual sin whose teacher was Jezebel.

        We are quick to accuse, point fingers, blame, and condemn. The very first sin ever committed was blame, and we have turned it into an art form. It makes us bitter and subtly and deceptively makes us prideful. If we can lift ourselves up in the face of others who are “not so well off,” we can pretend the mask we are wearing isn’t visible. But God sees every mask, and even on our best day, even while we pray—God says we are filthy rags. Spurgeon said that until a man comes to realize how truly black inside he is, he has no real understanding of what “Christian” means. I am not judging you; this attitude is in each of us, and to the degree that it is, demonstrates our need to come to Christ for everything.

        There is a real contention between being self-centered and other-centered. We fight the one to belong to the other and we struggle every step of the way. Many in church need the more mature brother or sister to encourage and model, and testify to God’s love for us that He did not have to give.

        God bless you.
        Stu

        • Son on January 13, 2019 at 4:33 pm

          Don’t let your trespasses interfere with your relationship with Jesus. We all trespass.
          Romans 3:23
          ” For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
          God has worked out your salvation. He did it on The Cross, all those years ago.
          Be thankful to Him. And, stay humble.

          • Stu on January 13, 2019 at 4:47 pm

            Be it that I should hear back on what I just shared. But you make my point ever clearer. So thank you for the boomerang..



        • lisa boyce on January 13, 2019 at 4:48 pm

          First all, comments like that is another reason we don”t go as well. In short, you are judging me, but that’s ok. Another reason is there is no preaching of Prophecy. I asked several pastors in my state do they even touch on end times, or the coming Rapture to prepare the church for such. I’m just giving you reasons why a lot of believers are leaving the buildings. We’re definitely not the only ones who feel this way.

          • Stu on January 13, 2019 at 4:53 pm

            Perhaps Lisa you did not read the part where I said I was not judging you, but thx for the heads-up. btw, I included myself. We are all in this together. I am not your enemy. 🙂



          • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 5:02 pm

            Stu,
            I think it maybe that time of the month for Lisa?



          • lisa boyce on January 13, 2019 at 5:04 pm

            THAT WAS VERY DISRESPECTFUL.



          • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 5:07 pm

            Lisa,
            I’m sure you’ll GET OVER IT?



          • koo on January 20, 2019 at 9:27 pm

            Yep. Church governance doesn’t even follow the Book. That hypnotic New Age music where you can screw up the lyrics any which way & still sound OK seems a masterful work of Satan vs old time songs that had a beginning, middle and end & with a purpose of helping you to remember an important lesson. Psychology has taken precedence & most pastors evidence a stronger faith in this soft psuedo-science of satan than God or the Bible. Show me the fruit of psychology. It is as barren as it is beguiling. I have many more reasons to run from church but these should be sufficient. I actually start feeling quite ill when I encounter the false words/worship & the hypnotic music & the rock concert decibels is to hide the lukewarm congregation & the missing Holy Spirit imo.



          • koo on January 20, 2019 at 10:30 pm

            Years ago when I was new I asked why we weren’t learning prophecy and Revelation & was told it’s a “closed book” whatever that means. Also that to understand it one needs guidance of Holy Spirit. So that has left me on a solitary journey with internet – bleh. People who went to Catholic school claimed to understand it but none would bother to help me. I think all are afraid to teach it. Now that I saw the time of month comments I will be leaving. Cheap talk for when they are threatened cuz they have nothing & a shame there’s no moderator.



          • fessdo on January 20, 2019 at 10:44 pm

            koo,
            You stated “I have many more reasons to run from church but these should be sufficient”,,, you must have some kind of rule in your mind that a person needs a reason to not attend church?



        • John on January 13, 2019 at 11:40 pm

          we will never in this life time get the spirit like what you said Stu , but it would be very great in spirit if we did. oh Jesus Lord i am afraid to say help us on this one. oh my Job. hope i mean some thing

          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 8:11 am

            John if you’ve received Jesus as you savior then that spirit is already in you.
            Romans 8:11 The Message (MSG)
            9-11 But if God himself has taken up residence in your life, you can hardly be thinking more of yourself than of him. Anyone, of course, who has not welcomed this invisible but clearly present God, the Spirit of Christ, won’t know what we’re talking about. But for you who welcome him, in whom he dwells—even though you still experience all the limitations of sin—you yourself experience life on God’s terms. It stands to reason, doesn’t it, that if the alive-and-present God who raised Jesus from the dead moves into your life, he’ll do the same thing in you that he did in Jesus, bringing you alive to himself? When God lives and breathes in you (and he does, as surely as he did in Jesus), you are delivered from that dead life. With his Spirit living in you, your body will be as alive as Christ’s!



          • Stu on January 14, 2019 at 8:42 am

            Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you (1 Corinthians 3:16). But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His (Romans 8:9).

            John, one cannot be a believer without the Holy Spirit.



          • John on January 14, 2019 at 9:58 am

            I f i have Jesus in my life of my understanding ‘. then i have his spirit working through me. how about you brother stu if i may say so. JESUS -GOD knows i have a dissability and still love’s me for that. Jesus kept me alive . but i would rather be with him. we all have a penalty to pay on this reched earth.



          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 10:07 am

            John where in the bible do you get that a saved person has “a penalty to pay on earth”?



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 11:19 am

            Beautiful, brother Fessdo, beautiful!

            Amen.



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 11:21 am

            Beautiful, brother Stu, beautiful!

            Amen



      • Son on January 13, 2019 at 4:20 pm

        So, today at the church I started attending about a month ago, the pastor asked the congregation to rest in The Lord. The pastor allowed much time to pass in silence. Eventually, I started wondering about the long period of silence as we all waited upon Him.. Suddenly, the pastor began speaking in a language I didn’t understand, a language that sounded almost like Hebrew. I wondered if he was reciting scripture from the Old Testament. I listened but couldn’t discern his meaning. When he finished speaking, he summoned a woman from the congregation to come to the front of the church. She did and proceeded to translate what the pastor said in plain English. I realized then that he had been speaking in tongues. After the service, I asked the woman who had translated the pastor’s words in tongues if she had set that up with Pastor Andy ahead of time. She told me, “NO”, with some surprise in her voice. I told her that was amazing. I asked Pastor Andy about what happened and he told me he had a vision in his mind of the woman who translated his words spoken in tongues and knew God was telling him to have her interpret for the congregation.
        I, myself, have prayed in tongues before, but I never understood what I was saying. I have prayed for others in tongues, out of faith that The Holy Spirit knew what to pray for them, but I never understood what I said while praying in tongues. This was an amazing, prophetic experience for me!
        There ARE spirit-filled churches out there. I know this now. I was blessed by God to lead me to a spirit-filled church.
        I had two bad experiences with churches at which the leadership was vain, self-serving and prideful to the exclusion of the flock. I had vowed off attending church anymore. But, now I have hope that God has led me to a church where Hid Word may be fulfilled. Just sharing, brethren. I hop and pray that those of you who worship Him alone may find the fellowship that a true, spirit-filled church offers us in our quest to abundantly fulfill our relationship with Jesus.

        With His Love,

        Your brother Dave

        • Son on January 13, 2019 at 4:24 pm

          typo correction – HIS Word, not “Hid Word”.

        • John on January 14, 2019 at 10:33 am

          No where’. but we do suffer is what i think i said.

          • John on January 14, 2019 at 10:37 am

            IF YOU HAVE AN EAR. WELL MAYBE I DO NOT. BUT IT DOES NOT KEEP ME AWAY FROM BEING SAVED FOR TRYING. ANY COMMENTS DAVE



          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 10:54 am

            John you comment was “we all have a penalty to pay on this retched earth”,,,, the “we all” you used can’t be the Christians on earth? I can show you scripture where Christians are more than conquerors. True you’ll have pain on this earth but suffering is optional.



          • John on January 14, 2019 at 10:54 am

            DAVE -FESSDO What does the the Bible mean, when it says in the end times MAN WILL OUT SMART HIM SELF



          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 11:05 am

            John I’ve never read that in the word but I have read Hosea 4:6 King James Version (KJV)
            6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:



          • John on January 14, 2019 at 11:21 am

            I DON’T NO MUCH BUT SUFFERING SEEMS MORE INVITABLE’. BUT MAY BE THE BIBLE SAYS IT IS OPTIONAL. FAITH HOPE



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 11:33 am

            John 1616:33
            “These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”
            Phillipians 1:6
            “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:”

            Keep the faith, brother. Ask Him for more of it.

            Your bro Dave



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 11:52 am

            John, I couldn’t find anything in the Bible about “man will outsmart himself.” The closest Biblical reference I could find iw in 2 Timothy 3:
            “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
            Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their’s also was. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

            With His Love,

            Dave



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 11:59 am

            John, I’m very sorry to hear you suffer from a disability. I can’t imagine what that must be like, but it is your life and you must live it the best you can. At leat Jesus lives within you and you know that. He can get you through anything and everything, some way, somehow.
            Let me tell you my “broken egg” analogy. A wealthy, well-placed man gets an egg with a broken yoke for breakfast. He is piqued and annoyed that the yoke is broken, the egg is not perfect. A homeless man gets an egg with a broken yoke. He is grateful for receiving the food. Same egg in both cases.

            Be blessed.

            Your bro Dave



          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 12:54 pm

            John pain works in the body but suffering works in the mind.
            Salvation is brought about by faith in Christ, so we are to use that knowledge to stop the suffering.
            Ephesians 6:17 King James Version (KJV) And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
            A helmet is used to protect the head (mind) so when you know in your mind that Jesus has provided something for that pain in you body then you can rest in Him and end the suffering.



          • John on January 14, 2019 at 6:39 pm

            Dave’. sweet. some one said Suffering is inevitable. Thanks. oh in Mathew they tried to out smart Jesus. Thanks again BRO DAVE’.



          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 8:15 pm

            John,
            I’m so sorry I though you were looking for help but instead you was wanting pity, my bad.



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 8:51 pm

            2 Corintieans 4″18
            “While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.”
            1 Peter 1:24-25
            “For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”

            I wish I could do more to ease your suffering, brother John. I can only offer you the words of God.
            This world and our human condition are temporary. What really counts is where we shall spend all of eternity.

            Dave



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 9:14 pm

            Please allow me to reiterate: there is nothing more important than where you/I/we shall spend all of eternity. As our friend and brother Fessdo pointed out in an earlier comment, our life is about 2 days in the reality of God’s existence. And I say, “if even two days.” I still maintain there is no time with God. Time is irrelevant to God. Time is only relevant to those who are under the sentence of death.

            Be blessed, brethren.



          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 9:19 pm

            John do you want pity so you can keep your government check coming in or do you want the truth that will set you free from the sickness, suffering, and lack the world is experiencing? It’s your choice.



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 9:33 pm

            Ask yourselves this, brethren: if you would not age or die, what would you do right now? Life would go on forever if you would not age or die. So, what would you do? Well, DO IT. NOW.
            ; )

            Dave



          • John on January 15, 2019 at 5:30 pm

            Ya Fessdo’. i am in a situation of not eccepting things going on with me. Dave put all that down for me and i do thank him for it. Hope i get out of this hole soon.



          • John on January 15, 2019 at 5:43 pm

            60 in april’. i would love to get off ssdi by the name of Jesus to get back doing the work i loved and regret.



          • fessdo on January 15, 2019 at 5:43 pm

            John,
            Hang in there, the government will probably get back to work soon?
            PS….. poor poor John,,,, feel better now?



          • John on January 15, 2019 at 5:57 pm

            Fessdo. no not yet . and the gov is getting back to work later or sooner than we think. yes i am feeling much better now and for?



          • fessdo on January 15, 2019 at 6:10 pm

            John,
            Has your lighting fast brain been wondered how I knew you was on a government check a day before you told it?



          • John on January 15, 2019 at 10:05 pm

            Bother Dave thanks for the help and i sure need more to thank God for any Good or bad i get. disability is in all in a way so much of my stupid memory to keep up on your true love on your brother. i wished i could repeat what you say for me for i read your great words . LOVE AND WISE BROTHER DAVE IS!!



        • John on January 15, 2019 at 10:09 pm

          I AM NOT GETTING ANY REPLY BUTTENS IN THE WRONG PLACE MAKE IT CRAZY TO REPLY TO THE PERSON REPLYING TOO

      • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 4:48 pm

        Lisa,
        “secular music” ??? are you sure they played that in a church??? Did you or someone call the law about this, if you didn’t God’s not going to be able to sleep a wink tonight.
        I’m betting Lisa you haven’t had any serious bible teaching on Matthew 7:1-5?
        Your welcome,
        Fessdo.

        • lisa boyce on January 13, 2019 at 4:53 pm

          WHEN WE WALKED INSIDE THE THE MUSIC WAS “PLAY THAT FUNKY MUSIC WHITE BOY”, MICHEAL JACKSON “BAD”. NEED I GO ON??? YES THATS WHAT WAS PLAYING. WE’RE DEFINITELY NOT AGAINST CHRISTIAN CONTEMPORARY MUSIC, BUT THAT WAS A LITTLE TOO MUCH.

          • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 4:58 pm

            That’s all,,, funky white boy??? good I think God will get over that.



          • lisa boyce on January 13, 2019 at 5:00 pm

            IM SURE GOD WILL GET OVER THAT AS WELL.



        • Stu on January 13, 2019 at 5:22 pm

          Hi Fessdo. I had no Reply button to click onto your last comment, so I will only say that people respond differently to the same message. I might have delivered those same words to someone else and would have gotten an entirely different response. I accept her rebuke, but we surely see how people interact by our words. I actually feel sad that she responded in such a hurt way, whereas Dave shared his response to me, and his word of advice that I remain humble is a point I am always willing to be reminded of. When I look at myself in the mirror, I neither have to see someone cringe nor brag. I can learn from what others think and say. Hope you are doing well.

          • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 5:35 pm

            Stu,
            Lisa is just looking for an approval that it was OK to not attend another church. I mean one excuse is as good as another, whether it’s the pastor wore a devil red tie or a cold blue tie or he didn’t shake my hand or he shook my hand too weak or he shook my hand too hard or he shook my hand too fast or he shook it too long or the music was too loud or the music was too low or the music was too old fashion or the music was to modern or the parking spaces were to angled too much or they,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



          • Son on January 13, 2019 at 9:07 pm

            Stu, my advice to “Be thankful and stay humble” was not directed at you in particular, dear brother. It was just a general exhortation that all of us who owe our eternal Life to Jesus should keep those thoughts in mind. And you know, the enemy is always hanging around to try to make us fight and disagree with one another, so we should defend our fortress of God with love and forgiveness for those who turn against us. Try to set an example for those who are weaker in their faith, I guess I’m saying, but that would certainly not be you. You have shown me nothing but a blessed, humble and grateful soul from the beginning of our discourse, bro! : ) You display Agape in your words, Stu.
            1 Peter 5:8
            “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:”

            Peace to all who trust in the holy name of JESUS.

            With His Love,

            Dave



        • Son on January 13, 2019 at 8:51 pm

          Hey, ole buddy and brother Fessdo, fwiw, the last church I attended and then quit, “Calvary Chapel”, or as I now call it, “The Church of Frisbee” (Google it and see what I mean), conducted some entertainment night featuring one of the pastors, a guy who went by the handle, “Pastor Clark”. This was the same guy who blew me off with the casual comment, “You must have taken the passage out of context” when God had me turn my car around halfway to my home to return to the church to deliver God’s message to him, which was 1 Corinthians 8:2 “And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.”
          Well, the reverend Pastor Clark donned an Elvis wig and outfit, big shades and all, and performed “Burning Love” for the assembled presbytery. Thank God I wasn’t in attendance or I might have died laughing. “Secular music.”” Are you kidding me? I don’t blame Lisa one bit for her reaction. If a church is going to play music, it should be music that reflects worship and reverence for God’s Holy Lamb, who died in terrible suffering and saved our bacon from the eternal frying pan. Lisa, I agree with you. Church should be about worshipping and glorifying God, not indulging the customs of men, and fleshly cutoms, at that. Remember, the flesh is at odds with The Spirit.

          His Love and Blessing to both of you, sister Lisa and beloved brother Fessdo!

          In His Spirit,

          Your bro Dave

          • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 9:21 pm

            Dave,
            Little Lisa may want to try a catholic church, I hear they’re real quite and acted real holy or maybe the church of Christ who don’t even have a piano.
            Sure hope David knew the correct volume and the right songs to play? 1 Chronicles 13:8 King James Version (KJV) And David and all Israel played before God with all their might, and with singing, and with harps, and with psalteries, and with timbrels, and with cymbals, and with trumpets.



          • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 9:49 pm

            You learn a lot reading the bible, notice it says “David and all Israel played before God with all their might” ALL THEIR MIGHT David didn’t whisper a tune to God. Even Job knew Job 38:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
            6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
            7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
            Ever counted how many time the word shout is used in the bible? Could it be if a person is out of joy then all they need to do is SHOUT for some joy??? Think I read about some people that knock down a wall with a shout? God’s ways are not our ways.



          • Son on January 13, 2019 at 10:42 pm

            lolol, Fessdo, I truly doubt they were playing “Purple Haze”. ; )



        • John on January 15, 2019 at 6:18 pm

          Fessdo lighting fast brain? and so you figure out about me good for you. Great for you to use these words on me. why insult?

          • fessdo on January 15, 2019 at 6:35 pm

            John,
            An insult can be a slap in the face in order to wake one up.



          • John on January 15, 2019 at 6:53 pm

            i knew you were going to say that. and expected you to . Bible is not against people on ssdi . i also hint my words and so how you new i am on dissability pro any one suposed it. Bible says to help one another. but your doing what you think is right and i need to walk away from things not fully in context with what Jesus said not any insult. THANKS JESUS I WILL GO



          • Son on January 15, 2019 at 9:04 pm

            Brother John,
            Last night, God told me that my life shall transpire in accordance with His Will. He told me that my life is in His Hands. Moreover, He told me that I shall live in accordance with His Will, which He commands us to do. He also told me that He would never desert me or forsake me.
            So, that’s all good with me. I would certainly make wrong choices and separate myself from God, as is the wont of worldly flesh, without His promise to me and faithfulness to that promise..
            Just sharing with you, John, what God told me and also sharing with all of my brethren on this forum who have ears to hear. Thanks to our loving, merciful God, I am at peace, as I patiently await His glorious return.
            Hebrews 10:36
            “You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
            Matthew 6:10
            “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.”



          • John on January 15, 2019 at 9:49 pm

            OK Fessdo bro Persevere ‘. I ask God for me not to have any sin full dream last night . so my dream came and rain came along to wash away any sin wile i was at a nice camping area. i was tempted to sin in this dream and funny how just rain from the sky made no sin to happen . ya your right i need to persevere though. it’s very tough roed to keep up with trying and knowing the diff- between Good and Bad.



      • Christine on January 17, 2019 at 9:22 am

        Hi Lisa,
        I read your comment and i can totally relate. My husband and i are in the same exact spot as you and your husband. I can not find a holy spirit filled church in my small area. These churches are luke warm and they are embracing the world, and they open their doors wide open and allow the enemy to walk right in with YOGA and all kinds of garbage that are of the world!!!!!!
        I have asked the Lord to lead me to the church where He sees fit and i have been waiting for quite some time now.

        • Stu on January 18, 2019 at 12:28 am

          Dear Christine,

          I recall a church similar to the ones you are describing. In that church, no one understood the meaning of being our brother’s keeper. Everyone was an island, and relationships were scarce. But I was to learn a valuable lesson from a woman who had wisdom.

          Families were camping near a lake, and one mischievous little boy decided to throw his fish hook too close to others who were wading in the water. His parents said nothing. So the woman went to the little boy and politely told him that his hook may get caught in the skin—or worse, an eye—of others nearby, and then she left. But undaunted, he continued throwing his hook into the water around the others. When the woman again saw what he was doing, she became righteously angered, and went to him a second time—this time not so politely, but saying instead, “If you do not find a different place to throw your hook, I will take your rod and break it in half, and you will not fish today.” The boy ran to his father and the father confronted the woman. When she shared what happened, the father restricted the boy from using his fishing rod for the remainder of the time there.

          I think you see my point. Someone was brave enough to do what was right, and because she did, many people there learned a valuable lesson, and God exalted this woman as a respected and concerned sister. If people are always complaining that everyone else is at fault, then nothing will change. Every member of the body is important to Christ, but we are not there to be catered to. We are there to give something to others—a piece of ourselves God calls us to give—regardless of what others fail to do that does not satisfy us. This site is filled with bitter people who blame and condemn, but they do not see themselves doing it.

          Tim Keller, a well-renowned pastor describes our battle with sin quite un-forgetfully. A man starts out complaining and grumbling. He notices himself doing it, but he continues to grumble, even seeing his dislike of it and knows he must stop. But as days wear on and become weeks, he sees it less and less and finally it becomes who he is. That’s hell—and that’s Hell. A little fire starts out inside us, and as Christians, our job is to blow them out before they grow. If a sin remains unchecked, it begins to consume the whole forest of the heart on fire. Don’t let others ruin your day. Instead, encourage them to do what is right. Don’t let yourself grow bitter—but better. Who is any less flawed or blemished than we?

        • fessdo on January 18, 2019 at 8:51 am

          Christine,
          Hope you and Lisa prayed your favorite prayer this morning?

          Luke 18:11-12 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
          11 The Pharisee stood alone, away from the tax collector(church people). When the Pharisee prayed, he said, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not as bad as other people. I am not like men who steal, cheat, commit adultery, (or do YOGA). I thank you that I am better than this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I give a tenth of everything I get!’
          (Lord I got to rest a minute, patting myself on the back is tough)
          A-men

          • Son on January 19, 2019 at 11:06 pm

            Looks like there’s nothing to say unless somebody has a gripe about their church. Nice.
            Happy Sunday, everybody!
            Oh, let me add a little substance here. A few days ago, The Lord told me that my life is in the hands of God. I believe Him. He also told me that I will live in accordance with The Will of God. For that, I am very thankful! Jesus has given me blessed peace. Praise God!
            What would we do without our precious Lord Jesus?

            Dave



      • Stan the plumber man on January 20, 2019 at 3:58 am

        U cannot take the world on your own but as a community church! Mass thought can change the world. Community involvement can b awe inspiring and change things in brief moments which can b life changing 4 others. We r here 2 help. That is what I believe my parents hav ed instilled in me. Only hope I c an lived up 2 there high hopes and aspirations.

    • Talitha Cumi on January 15, 2019 at 2:23 pm

      What tires me about the churches is that it’s nearly impossible to find one that is BIBLICAL. They don’t preach the full counsel of God. They avoid warning about hell, sin and repentance, lest they lose members. They put on shows; the pastor tells stories. A large proportion of pastors aren’t even saved themselves, but are ministers of the evil one. They force an unscriptural tithe using verses from Malachi that were specifically for ancient Israel. They are money oriented and the house of prayer is a house of merchandise with bookstores and cafes, just like the world. The church has become a clique, a social gathering. The congregations have become too large to effectively minister to individuals.
      They disregard the Hebrew Jesus and I have met so-called Christians who are unaware that He was born a Hebrew from the line of Judah. In other words, they are unaware that the Son of Man was a JEW. They deny His Deity in many cases. Some churches are anti-Semitic. Most of the believers argue with each other about cardinal doctrines of the faith. Everyone wants to argue their point and many are biblically ignorant and don’t study. Political correctness reigns and pastors are afraid to CALL OUT SIN.
      What is really irritating is the number of false bibles out there. Common sense alone should tell you that God doesn’t have to put out new bibles every year, but the devil does to cause confusion, to add and subtract from the Word. Everyone is using a different textbook! This practice is not allowed in secular university classes: Everyone must use the EXACT TEXTBOOK that the professor teaches from. Yet we have everyone using their favorite VERSION.
      The real Scriptures are not a VERSION, yet they are called the King James VERSION.The trusty old King James Bible, yes, it’s the real Word, do the research, Almost NO pastor uses it anymore; again, the devices of the devil at work here.
      I advocate going back to home church situations. These are difficult to locate and have their own set of problems. We are in the last days of rampant apostasy. Few pastors even touch the teaching of eschatology, so none of this is surprising. The truly great men of God that I remember have all died.
      What is miraculous is that even with all of the above negatives, there is a great positive at work. Jesus Christ still SAVES people, in spite of themselves. Truly he is a great and gracious Deliverer.
      I tell people about the Lord on a person-to -person basis. I am not about works. I do what He puts in front of me to do, and it’s always obvious so I don’t have to beat the bushes to find His will.
      What happened to the great hymns? All but gone! Now we have rock style bands on stage and women pastors. Everyone is writing a book on how to be an effective Christian when the answer is right in front of them.
      I would love to find an old fashioned, fundamental congregation. My city is full of mega-churches.

      • fessdo on January 15, 2019 at 3:43 pm

        Talitha,
        You’re really funny, you fuss about preachers not beating the people over the head with their bible on sin and hell each meeting but you also fuss about which bible they should be using to beat them over the head with about sin and hell, then you fuss about them reading Malachi, next you fuss about selling coffee and cookies, then you fuss about people fussing about their cardinal doctrines,,,,, I mean that is funny stuff. And at the last you say “I would love to find an old fashioned, fundamental congregation. My city is full of mega-churches”,, well move?

      • Stu on January 15, 2019 at 4:14 pm

        Talitha,
        I am having a hard time not being sarcastic here. I thought we were all imperfect, blemished, and flawed people? I thought that “If I have the gift of prophesy, and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” Perhaps the poor Vietnamize farmer who doesn’t have a Bible cannot enter into heaven without his KJV. How many extra regulations must I have to satisfy my Creator? Like I said, I do not want to be sarcastic, but if you condemned me like you seem to be, I would have nothing but slavery to turn to.

        On another note, I know your intentions are well-meaning, but grumbling and complaining about the rest of us who do not meet your standards is not encouraging, but deflating.

        Wishing you well, sister.

        • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 2:37 pm

          First of all, they are not MY standards. They are HIS standards. He demands that the FULL COUNSEL is preached, not just part of it! I am aware that people can get saved reading ANY false bible, because they were elected and predestinated for salvation. Read Romans 8:29 onward! Jesus also used the phrase ‘my elect’ over and over! Take your dictionary and look up ‘elect’.
          The KJB usually lands in the hands of saved people after awhile, because the Spirit Himself lands it there. They are really aware that something is wrong, and they seek a closer intimacy…and the KJB will deliver on that. The versions are weak and powerless but again, I will state that the Lord will use them as a stepping stone. I was saved listening to an apostate because I was meant to be saved. He can save that Vietnamese farmer using any means He chooses, if that man was elected before the foundation of the world.
          People dislike the KJB exactly because it is bluntly forthright and ALL cardinal doctrines of the faith are therein. They prefer to have their ears tickled by false doctrine. Research WHY the KJB is the real word. I think you are very lightweight on research. Study to show thyself approved!

          • Son on January 22, 2019 at 3:26 pm

            Romans 9:15
            “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
            John 14:26
            “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
            2 Peter 1:21
            “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
            2 Timothy 3:16
            “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”
            Revelation 22:19
            “And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
            Romans 8:38-39
            “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
            Phillipians 4:6-9
            “Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.”

            His Peace to you, sister.



          • Stu on January 22, 2019 at 5:35 pm

            Talitha,
            I must say that what you think of me is not all that important. It is what Christ thinks of me that is. But I am curious why you are so presumptuous about who I am and what I read. Actually I have studied the KJV, and have no problem referring to it. God will preserve the integrity of His Word no matter what. He has through the ages, and clouds of witnesses have been saved without ever having known what a KJV Bible is. You are perceived condescendingly by your tone, “Take your dictionary and look up ‘elect’” as if you are the only one who fully appreciates God’s power and that He speaks to no one but you. When you puff yourself up by saying, “I think you are very lightweight on research,” it is why we are not to compare ourselves with one another because one will always see himself as larger or smaller, and it is why I shared with you the passage 1 Cor 13—one which you neglected to respond to, and one which you appear to show none yourself. Every man is at a different place in his walk with Christ, and understanding that comes with a measure of compassion.

            Having said all that, I am in no wise greater or smarter or better than anyone here—and will therefore admit that my pride stands before me. There is no need to stand on a pedestal. No one—no one is saved of his own doing although many would talk as if it were possible.

            One last thing dear sister: we all wear masks—everyone of us—and to the extent that we do, we can neither give love nor receive it; only the mask gets the credit. The hardest thing Christians face is lowering it, and we must fight daily to do it.



      • Stan the plumber man on January 20, 2019 at 4:06 am

        The bible was written by man. Unfortunately some believe by god. If u can follow the basics and not get tied up in it u will b blessed. They r basic guidelines of how 2 b a great person. Dont sweat the small stuff. Look at the bigger picture and u will c the light. God bless all. WWJD?

        • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 3:04 pm

          If you think the bible was written by men, that’s because you’re reading one that was written by men. Satan counterfeits God’s work and has been perverting the Word since Eden. The real Word was verbally given to the prophets and apostles from the mouth of the Lord. It’s simple: Ever see an executive dictate letters to his secretary? That’s how the KJB was written, by direct words from God to the ready pen of that Israelite servant (with the exception of Luke, the only Gentile secretary). You use profanity in your comments and the WWJD thing is worn out. There are always trolls on forums like this and you are a troll.

      • koo on January 20, 2019 at 11:02 pm

        100% agree. The churches seem to have all been compromised & the true meanings are lost in watered down Bible. I’m going to try Orthodox Christian next cause even KJV has issues but it does speak to me whereas the newer versions – I can’t get the meaning – it is like nothing to me. I also have been advocating home church but fell away instead – have known people fleeing abuse in home church situations so not interested. But if I go in the door of that Orthodox church & hear that New Age hypnosis stoner musack I’ll be out that door so fast – it’s a sign – I don’t need fellowship with the Satan-infused telling me to compromise truth. I am forced to compromise in too many areas of my life already – NOT ON SUNDAY. . .

        • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 2:48 pm

          Koo, glad you agree. I put a great deal of Biblically correct thought in my comments. I can spot false doctrine quickly in a church session. It doesn’t take long to see the subtle methods that are employed to deceive the unwary. The KJB has no issues whatsoever; I will stand firm on that. The KJB speaks to you like no other bible exactly because it is the verbally inspired, plenary Word directly given to the prophets. Keep reading it!

    • Randy on January 20, 2019 at 7:47 am

      How can you people quote anyone if you where not their, Jesus said this and that etc false testimony and they have you doing …

  9. Lawrence on December 24, 2018 at 5:41 am

    Folks, in Jesus’ name people have lied to me, distracted me from my walk with God with entertainment, and socially isolated me when I attend “church”. I’ve watched so many people’s lives ruined as the “church” puts burdens on people and strips them of their own relationship with God. One day, I was in prayer and asking for insight and it became clear to me that the real test of whether a church was genuine was whether Christ was manifest there. After searching for awhile, I grew disheartened. Jesus told me not to give up, and that I have a lot to offer but when I sought to help with my areas of expertise, that too was rejected. So many people argue that it is impossible to live a life with just God and not men, but remember that what is impossible with men is possible with God, and His power is made perfect in my weakness. I lean on Christ, and He has never ever let me down. If you are not going to an assembly of godless men who call themselves christian but believe in Christ, then I encourage you to keep the faith and not give up in finding Christ. For we are his body.

    • fessdo on December 24, 2018 at 8:59 am

      Lawrence,
      “many people’s lives ruined as the “church” puts burdens on people”
      This is so true but people like myself are destroyed from lack of knowledge. I have owned and ran businesses for years and like ALL owners the number one thing is profit, if you’re focused on anything else you will fail. The last few churches used me to help,,,, I though I was been used for my knowledge of the bible but after a few years I realized it was my business mind. The one thing that was really weird was finding out a church is just a business and the profitable ones was focused more on the bottom line (profit). The reason for giving my time and resources to the church was to help people, the reason I ran a business was for profit. When I saw the church’s main focus was money I then got to focusing on why the church would do things. When I called the profit focus to the leaders attention they said “what ever is in the best interest for the church” and the best interest just happened to be making a profit. The most damaging member is a member that has found out that it’s all about profit, these people will be run out quick. They will never be allowed to help in anyway at the church and will be shunned. To find a church that has zero focus on profit would be imposable, so the best we can look for would be one that has less focus on profit but good luck cause they’re all ran by humans and humans are fickle at best that’s why we need Jesus. Now if you could find a church where Jesus is the bottom line.

      • Son on January 7, 2019 at 10:37 am

        fessdo, I reread your post about churches and the profit motive. What you said got me to wondering, “What is that profit used to accomplish?” Is it to enrich and aggrandize the leadership of the church? To pay for their trips to exotic places to “further the mission of the church”? To buy better donuts and coffee for the congregation to enjoy before the service? To build an even larger and more elaborate physical structure to house the church? I mean, once the nut is covered, what happens to the extra money when a church is making a profit? Any ideas you can give me about this? I, too, have felt the underlying, if often subtle, theme of “give, give, give” in every church I have ever attended. But where does the money go? Help me here, brother. TIA

        Dave

        • koo on January 21, 2019 at 12:35 am

          The church I was going to had a Veteran’s Wall. Veteran’s on the wall get free yardwork. My husband is a veteran & we need help with yardwork but can’t afford to hire. The Veteran’s on the wall get fred yardwork because they pay a church membership that we cannot afford. Wouldn’t it just be more honest to hire a yard sérvice? But no. They get social approval by being on the wall. Then who does the free yardwork? These are illegal aliens who have been taken in by the church & they get federal funds to help with their care. There are also federal funds for job readyness training & these guys are being trained to stereotype – yardwork/landscaping. In order to keep these illegals longer after they are taught English & a job skill the church also runs a rehab for drug & alchohol addicted so during Sunday service a brown Hispanic young man will come in & give praise for how much the church has helped him with his addiction & everybody is happy – or so the pastor thinks. Many of us are sitting there steaming that we know a bunch of young guys who would like a chance to learn & do yardwork & get paid for it & many of these are also Hispanic but because they were born here that opportunity will not happen for them. (Since then many are now in prison – due to lack of opportunity.)
          In recent decades I have known many like myself who came apon extremely hard times. We never could afford church membership but we tithed cash with no signature & gave of our labor to efforts of the church. When our time of need came our church family rejected us in favor of these foreign born who entered illegally but get federal dollars (from our taxes)
          Those people did not spend years supporting the church. We working class did & our churches made us into chump losers & we still hate & distrust them for it.
          If you need food aid from a church you must give all ID as they report everything to Uncle Sam. This does not feel like Godly giving. It feels like the churches are an arm of government. It feels like Uncle Sam is so far up the church’s hind end – who would trust to confess to even a hangnail?
          A friend enticed us to join her church & promised that they become your church family & will cover all aspects of your funeral & burial as part of membership. Turns out the cost of membership is waaaay more than a policy & we can’t afford a policy. So yeah, you have to have a certain amount of wealth to go to church & you may sneer all you want but lots of us just don’t have it these days. Add the globalist politics, the too close with government, the goverment $, the ungodly things churches do to create/add value, the satanic music, the satanic sikeology, the near useless preaching & teaching due to watered down, no relationships of value offered – its a big old racket & a big old waste of time. I hunger for something that doesn’t exist & perhaps it never did.

          I remember getting stranded in a broken down car with another mother & a bunch of kids. We coasted into a church parking lot so as not to be a traffic hazard. Some men at the church helped us & then urged us to come to service because there was alot of good single police & firemen attended there. So many peoples church motivations are too worldly for my taste. Besides I was already married. I didn’t meet my husband at church & my church family all wanted to vet him for me – for a price – even if it was dinner out. He was coming to church with me & they were all amazingly adept at avoiding us just cause they really wanted that free dinner. So I never really had a church family – that was a lie & those people were all just users.

          • fessdo on January 21, 2019 at 8:14 am

            koo,
            You should change your name to GMH (give me handout) I’ve seen a lot of people who wanted the church to server them but never anyone quit like you. Jesus said “he came to server” and christens should be like Jesus.
            You said “Many of us are sitting there steaming” where in the world is your grace, love, compassion??? How can a person live like you???
            Start depending on Jesus to supply all your needs and stop depending on the church and/or government. Start by getting a full understanding of this verse. Philippians 4:19 Easy-to-Read Version My God will use his glorious riches to give you everything you need. He will do this through Christ Jesus.
            Get born again and start loving instead of hating.



          • koo on January 21, 2019 at 4:54 pm

            Fessdo – why don’t you learn to read before you judge? That’s a real heart after God that you are showing. Maybe when you are 78 years old & have done alot of giving & suffered alot of taking you may think that it is your turn too. Where is YOUR grace love & compassion? & don’t sell me your prosperity doctrine – Uncle Sam will take it or do nothing when to “too-big-to-fails” help themselves illegally out of your bank account so as to hasten your death from stress of eviction or having your medical equipment turned off because the power company decides to double bill you because you were in hospital & you might miss a payment & they are just helping you (and protecting their bottom line) never thinking that they took your rent money & levy their dead peasant probate policies on you. And all the churches can do & say is for illegal aliens – nothing for those of us that can’t even afford to go anymore, those of us that bought their lies to have our sweat equity & unnamed Godly cash donations considered as nothing. When the churches turn all their giving to a specific government supported demographic of criminals & get involved in politics to support criminals they should have remembered us salt of the earth citizens that supported them. They didn’t. They say & do nothing about the financial crimes perpetrated daily that kills people, nor do they help. So they should have stayed out of politics alltogether. The churches sold us out for the almighty dollar. The churches are criminal shyster con artists. Satan is in the sanctuary. Screwtape couldn’t have done it better. The churches in the US will only recover with a new generation. Of course if they were Godly & started with owning their sins & apologizing to us they could turn this population around but they don’t have to so they won’t. Despite the parable my hard-earned Benjamins meant nothing – they only count Clevelands. Where is THEIR grace, love, compassion & humility? They will be the ones crying “Lord, Lord . . .” Sign me righteously angry & my goverment check is MY MONEY that I EARNED & was taken from me whether I agreed or not & is now maligned as an ENTITLEMENT. No, they had it interest free for decades & stole my family’s business in court with lots of lies & ridicule – so much for “generational wealth” – Uncle Sam has a steady program of redistribution – where is the church on this constant stealing & manufactured hardship? Right in there with them. Part of the problem. & sometimes I suspect the truth is that the most Satanic among us hide amongst the sheep of the church & prey on us as I watched from afar my mother’s abuse in a Catholic nursing home & now that she has died all of her possessions have disappeared & I would love to have a pastor knowledgable in combatting spiritual theft to guide me in righteous prayer to protect her ascendance but the only ones I have met supposedly in that realm just want to do good works if it gets them on TV – has a reeking of a certain mineral to me. I don’t need her possessions but I don’t want them used to harm.



          • fessdo on January 21, 2019 at 5:31 pm

            koo,
            That’s it? I mean in 78yrs that’s the worse that has happened to you. You should count yourself one of the luckiest persons on earth. Man talk about spoiled. You do know people don’t have to be perfect to get to heaven, they don’t even have to treat people perfect ever time, they just have to have a savior named Jesus. Think about being born again and rid yourself of all that hate and begin to love your enemies.



          • Son on January 21, 2019 at 9:43 pm

            This forum, where we once discussed matters of spiritual significance, has gone to the dogs.
            I’m outta here for good. Adios, my true, faithful brethren. See you here, there or in the air.
            Good luck, Carey. You got the right idea but it’s all for nought, I’m afraid. Look out. He’s coming back and it ain’t gonna be pretty for those who don’t worship Him in spirit and in truth.
            Revelation 12:11
            “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

            Dave



          • fessdo on January 21, 2019 at 10:38 pm

            Dave,
            Don’t let those that are so wrapped up in their petty problems cause you to bail out. Remember when Jesus said let the dead bury the dead, I like the way the message says it.
            Luke 9:58-62 The Message (MSG)
            58 Jesus was curt: “Are you ready to rough it? We’re not staying in the best inns, you know.”
            Jesus said to another, “Follow me.”
            59 He said, “Certainly, but first excuse me for a couple of days, please. I have to make arrangements for my father’s funeral.”
            60 Jesus refused. “First things first. Your business is life, not death. And life is urgent: Announce God’s kingdom!”
            61 Then another said, “I’m ready to follow you, Master, but first excuse me while I get things straightened out at home.”
            62 Jesus said, “No procrastination. No backward looks. You can’t put God’s kingdom off till tomorrow. Seize the day.”

            I’m sure koo has had a not so perfect life but who has, I know kids that haven’t made it to their teens and just wish they could walk or take or breath without pain, they’ve had pain all their life and don’t know one day without pain, and then someone gripes about the wrong song played in church, when thousands are going to hell daily because they won’t receive Jesus as their savior. Makes one want to say let the dead bury the dead?



          • Son on January 22, 2019 at 1:48 am

            Hey, old friend and brother Fessdo – I’m not planning on contributing much here because I feel as if I am not really contributing anything positive. It appears to me like whatever pearls He gives me to offer here are simply me throwing pearls to swine. This forum has become much like the churches to which the complainers here refer in their criticism and complaints.
            There’s just not much working toward the glory of Jesus here, other than you and Stu. I will miss interacting with both of you. But, we shall meet, my brother, if it is His Will for us to do so and share recognition in His Kingdom.

            Matthew 10:14
            “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.”

            God bless you, my esteemed friend and brother Fessdo and same to you, dear brother Stu.

            With His Love,

            Dave



          • John on January 22, 2019 at 10:40 am

            DAVE BROTHER’. Gone to the Dogs? with you brother and want to see what you see. God-Jesus-Creator to be in total control of things soon.



          • John on January 22, 2019 at 11:00 am

            DAVE FESSDO SON-OF’. I have a long road and to short to take. I ask The Lord Jesus Christ for not to dis believe in how he works in my little Faith, but when i go to a athiest and hear what he has to say my faith prove it self . Jesus please no unecessary corrections



          • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 5:11 pm

            Dave,
            All this should be confirmation that the devil isn’t pleased with you decision to stay and spread the gospel. satan has turn all the trolls loose today on this blog in retaliation to you staying. Good job Dave you’ve pissed him off but the good news is you’ve already won thru Christ Jesus.



        • Stu on January 22, 2019 at 8:38 am

          Hi Dave. No Reply button, but this is in regard to you leaving. Don’t. You have work to do in unfavorable situations. “Do you love only those who do not love you back”? God is not only giving you these brothers and sisters to help you persevere and become more loving, but to help and encourage them to do likewise. It is better to embrace each other now on earth and forgive one another because we are all sinners than do it in before all the angels and God.

          Besides, I really do enjoy learning new words.
          Peace and grace,Stu

          • John on January 22, 2019 at 11:03 am

            OH STU TOO I WANT TO ADD



          • Son on January 22, 2019 at 12:58 pm

            Ha ha, “learning new words.” You’re amusing, bro. Thanks for YOUR words of wisdom about
            sharing the things that Jesus shows me with others, even those who are bitter and spiteful about their experiences in the Lord, such as church attendance, etc. The Lord speaks to us, sometimes, through the words of His servants and I believe that is the case here with your advice. I’ll stick around, long as I can stand hearing the bile being spewed by the malcontents. Jesus did tell us to shake off the dust and not cast our pearls to swine, remember. The hard part is sorting the wheat from the chaff. Glad it’s not, ultimately, my job to do that. I’m just living each day, each moment, one at a time, waiting for HIM to return for us. Thanks for your encouragement.

            With His Love, bro Stu.

            Dave



    • Son on December 24, 2018 at 1:29 pm

      I think that fessdo is probably more savvy about the way the secular world, in general, and the business world, in particular, than I am. That being said, I have been attending a church recently where I share in His Spirit with the congregation and the pastor. I go to church for Jesus. That is the only reason I get my butt out of bed early on Sunday morning and sit in one spot for an hour or two on Sunday. I do it for HIM, not for men, to worship HIM with other fellow believers. I keep an eye on the profit motivations of the church. Yes, I toss a $5 bill into the collection jar when they pass it. The church needs electricity, etc. The servants/pastor/workers for the church need sustenance. That is why I feel I should contribute something, but I give the money to Jesus. I am not planning to get fleeced by the wolves. If Jesus tells me to give, I obey Him. John 10:27 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:” If I am victimized for HIS sake, I count that as a blessing. 1 Peter 4:16 “Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.” God has told us in His holy scripture that He wants us to gather together to worship Him in spirit and in truth. Hebrews 10:25 “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.” Where else can we, in modern American society, gather together for this purpose on a regular basis except for the church? Go to church to be with Jesus. Matthew 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Listen for HIS voice and do not be fooled by the wolves in sheep’s clothing. Be dedicated to JESUS and only JESUS.

      God bless you, my brethren.

      Dave

      • Stu on December 24, 2018 at 1:48 pm

        Well said, Dave. It is an other-centered viewpoint, and whatever we lack, Christ is sufficient. When Jesus said, “I came to heal the sick, not the well,” he was being sarcastic, because he knows that no one is well enough not to need him.

        • Son on December 26, 2018 at 3:30 pm

          I suppose some people want to get into Heaven by hook or by crook, and I kinda don’t blame them for feeling that way. As long as they get in, that gets the job done. However, I hear the tinkling of a cymbal there. When you love someone, and especially when you love Jesus, you want to be with them, spend time with them and share with them. Jesus said that when two or more are gathered in His name, He is with them also. Perhaps one doesn’t HAVE to obey the letter of Matthew 10:25 in order to gain entrance into Heaven, but how much does one lose in terms of the love Jesus offers through sharing worship with His body, the body of Christ? Is anyone here familiar with the analogy of the thimble and the hogshead? We will all be full of joy in Christ’s Kingdom, but some will be thimbles and some will be hogsheads in their fullness of their joy. Pray that God might lead you to a church, or some place of worship, where you can gather with brethren who worship Jesus in spirit and in truth and love you as He has commanded us to love one another. If it is His Will for you to find that place, it will enhance and enrich your worship and love of Jesus. As Stu once wrote, it will “adorn your spirit with kindness” and “sprinkle love” on your life.

          God’s Peace, Blessing and Abundant Life upon you, my brethren.

          With His Love,

          Dave

          • Stu on December 26, 2018 at 4:09 pm

            Thx Dave.

            I have indeed been brought to a body of believers that brightens my spirit. It was not without a price. I am not sure why you felt I was not a participant in the gathering together of his saints. I fully accept for myself that it was God’s desire—and plan—from the beginning.

            Hope you had a Merry Christmas and a bright New Year coming up.

            Grace and peace,
            Stu



          • fessdo on December 26, 2018 at 6:35 pm

            Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
            By that I would say God knew all of us before we were born, then in 2 Peter 3:8 it says But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
            Now if you divide 1000yrs into 24hrs you end up with 41.66yrs and if you died at 83.32yrs old, then in God’s eyes you’ve been gone from Him 2hrs.
            Do you think God is going to ask how many times were you at church these past 2hrs?



          • Son on December 26, 2018 at 10:39 pm

            fessdo, dear brother, there is no such thing as “time” with God. lol, “2 hours”.
            Let me please be succinct as to what I personally believe, fwiw:
            If God leads you to a church where you feel He is with you, and share fellowship in spirit and in truth with the body of Christ that abides in that church, you do well. I believe God approves of that. I hope that I have found that with my new church. I’m glad our brother Stu has, evidently, found that, or something similar that gives him fulfillment in his need and desire for Christian fellowship. And I pray that, God willing and you willing, ole buddy fessdo, that you might find that too.

            In His Spirit and with His Love,

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 26, 2018 at 10:51 pm

            No “time”?
            Then 2 Peter 3:8 shows that Peter didn’t just cusses some but also lied a little. He should have attended church a little more before doing all that writing.



          • Son on December 26, 2018 at 11:20 pm

            fessdo, I think the passage comparing God’s “time” to human “time” is simply an allegory to explain to mortal human beings, who exist in “time”, that “human time” cannot be compared to God’s “time”. It may seem that Jesus delays in returning for us, but our sense of “time” is entirely different than our sense of “time” if we could see through the eyes of God. With God, there is no “time” as we know it. He is infinite. Time is a function of aging, which we brought upon ourselves by disobeying God in The Garden of Eden. If it were not for aging and death, there would be no “time”. We would have no concept of “time”, just as we won’t when we are in His Kingdom of Heaven and live there forever.

            With all due respect, brother fessdo,

            Stay blessed.

            Your bro Dave



          • Son on December 26, 2018 at 11:31 pm

            Oh, one more thing that occurred to me, my old friend fessdo” you wrote, “Do you think God is going to ask how many times were you at church these past 2hrs?”
            So, let me ask you (I’m sure our buddy Gregg Powers would get a kick out of this), if you fornicated, stole, murdered and forsook God for your whole life, do you think God would condemn you to Hell for your behavior over these past 2 hours?”
            Jus’ wundrin….

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 26, 2018 at 11:45 pm

            Definition of time : the measured or measurable period during which an action, process, or condition exists or continues :
            Genesis 1:1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
            5.God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
            8.God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
            13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
            19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
            23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
            31 And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

            God’s “time”



          • fessdo on December 26, 2018 at 11:51 pm

            If you’re covered in the blood of Jesus you’re not going to hell. Their is no sin that the blood of Jesus did not destroy, but you have to receive that truth by faith and rest in it.



          • Richard on December 27, 2018 at 9:48 am

            I need help. I’m too weak to follow God the more I tried the more I get weaker. What can I do to be spiritually strong?



        • Stu on January 22, 2019 at 5:48 pm

          I wish Dave we had “Reply” buttons. Again, yours is missing. I just wanted to reciprocate the love you demonstrate and the position of lowliness in Christ you challenge me with. I recall a pastor being asked if he might forgive a murderer. The pastor said that “No,” he could not forgive him only, but that the murderer must also forgive him because both were sinners in need of forgiveness. I only wish that as many stand on their perch, they too would know they need to be forgiven. If only we spoke to each other as if we did, our perch would be cut in two.

          Grace to you brother.
          Stu

      • Lawrence on December 24, 2018 at 3:29 pm

        I’d agree most folks need the fellowship, opportunity to serve, encouragement, and exhortation for a optimal walk with Christ – but it galls me to see scripture misused to make the point, as so many do, and it also isn’t strictly required from what I can tell.

        It is certainly not required for believers to engage in social ritual at a specific location for salvation or worship (God is sufficient: John 4:20-24, Isaiah 61:6-7, Heb 4:15) and anyone who thinks God demands payment in exchange for being with Christ is grossly in error (Romans 6:23, Acts 8:18-21).

        >God has told us in His holy scripture that He wants us to gather together to worship Him in spirit and in truth. Hebrews 10:25 “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.”

        Hebrews 10:25 isn’t talking about worship, it’s talking about encouraging and exhorting one another. The very existence of this thread proves it’s not necessary to attend “church” rituals to accomplish that. Romans 12:1 clarifies that worship is about self sacrifice for God, which may involve fellowship but may not, depending on the circumstances.

        >”Go to church to be with Jesus.”

        II Corinthians 13:5 – Jesus is already in all believers whether or not they attend “church” services.

        • fessdo on December 24, 2018 at 8:09 pm

          Lawrence,
          I’ve found someone that agrees Heb 10:25 isn’t about going to church, thank you.
          Collins English Dictionary defines a “sacred cow” as “a person, institution, custom, etc, unreasonably held to be beyond criticism.” Among many Christians, there are sacred cow Bible passages. Hebrews 10:25 is one of them. It states, “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.”
          This verse is taken by virtually every church and every elder to mean that we should not stop attending church; that we should be in church every Sunday. Some even take the latter part of the verse to mean that, the closer we get in each week to Sunday, the more we should be exhorting one another to attend church. Many Bible scholars, who I must presume are afraid of upsetting the “sacred cow,” simply will not give an unbiased exposition of this verse.
          I know what it is like. I saw the truth of Hebrews 10:25 well over twenty years ago. But I looked the other way. I convinced myself that I must be wrong, and that, since everyone else says so, then this verse–despite what the Greek clearly says–must be saying that we are not to forsake “going to church.” And, particularly since there is no other Scripture that says we are to go to church, it is a fearful thing to give up the “sacred cow” of Hebrews 10:25. Nevertheless, all through those years, in the back of my mind, I knew full well that Hebrews 10:25 doesn’t address going to church at all. This verse addresses something altogether different. I hope that my confession will encourage others, who also know the truth of this verse, to also come clean.
          Verses 23 and 24
          What I intend to do is give an honest exposition of this verse, just as I would any other. I would encourage readers to read the whole of Hebrews 10 to get the context, but I will begin my exposition with verse 23: “Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;).” I won’t belabor you with details, but I will point out here that the word “faith” in the King James Version should really be “hope.” The Greek word is elpidos, and in every other place where it appears in the New Testament, it is translated as “hope.” So, this is talking about not wavering concerning our hope that our faithful God has promised. What is this hope?
          Certainly, there are many things for which we may hope. But the Scriptures often refer to our hope as the resurrection from the dead and our glorification at the return of Jesus Christ. In Acts 23:6, Paul refers to “the hope and resurrection of the dead.” Again, in Acts 24:15, Paul says that he has “hope toward God, which they themselves [the Pharisees] also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.” This same hope is what he refers to in Acts 26:6 and 28:20. In Romans 5:2, Paul writes of the “hope of the glory of God.” This is not referring to God’s essential glory, but to something we hope for in the future. That is, this is a reference to our hope in the glory that God will bestow upon us (see also Ephesians 1:18).
          This is also what Paul is talking about in Romans 8:19-25:
          For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
          There are many other passages I could cite, but I will give just two more. In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14, Paul again refers to the resurrection at the return of Jesus Christ as our hope: “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” In Titus 2:13, Paul says we should be, “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.”
          Getting back to Hebrews 10, in verse 24, we read, “And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works.” In context, then, because of our hope of glorification in the resurrection at the return of Christ, we are to keep one another in mind to incite each other to love and good works.
          Episunagōgē
          Hebrews 10:25 says we are not to forsake “the assembling of ourselves together.” “Assembling together” is from one Greek word. Its lexical form is episunagōgē. This word is a noun and it is found in only one other place: “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand” (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2). “Gathering together” is translated from episunagōgē. It is obvious in this passage that episunagōgē refers to our being gathered to Christ.
          There is a verb form of this word. It is episunagō. It is found in several verses. Let’s look at them.
          Matthew 23:37: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” (a parallel verse is Luke 13:34). “Gathered” and “gathereth” are both from episunagō. Jesus uses the way a hen completely gathers her chicks to describe the way He desired to gather Jerusalem’s children (those who like children humbly wanted to come to Him–see here for more on this verse). Thus, episunagō is here used for a gathering to Christ.
          Matthew 24:30-31: “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other” (the parallel verse is in Mark 13:26-27). “They shall gather together” is from episunagō. Again, this is an obvious reference to a gathering to Christ.
          Mark 1:33: “And all the city was gathered together at the door.” “Gathered together” is translated from episunagō. Jesus was in a house healing the sick when all the city gathered at the door of the house. Although only a relatively small manifestation of such a gathering, this is again a gathering to Christ.
          Luke 12:1: “In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.” “When there were gathered together” is from the word episunagō. This verse speaks of a multitude of people gathered together to Christ.
          In every place where we find the verb episunagō, it is used to refer to a gathering of some sort to Christ. And in the only other place where the noun form episunagōgē is used, it is used for that great gathering to Christ on the day of His return and our resurrection. Thus, when we see episunagōgē used in Hebrews 10:25, we must begin to suspect that perhaps it does not refer to going to church on Sunday (or any other day of the week) but to something greater. Does this fit the context? Let’s see.
          The Day Approaching
          Again, the entire verse reads: “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.” Notice that, instead of forsaking, we are to be exhorting (the word can also mean beseeching or comforting) one another, and all the more as we see the day drawing near. What day?
          Just a little further in the chapter, we read this: “Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry” (verses 35-37). “He that shall come” is certainly a reference to Jesus Christ. We are to have patience (verse 36) in waiting for that day, the day of Christ’s return. But apparently some did not have patience and forsook the hope of our gathering to Christ at His return.
          The evidence from both the context and the words used is weighty. It clearly leads us to the conclusion that Hebrews 10:25 is saying that we are not to forsake the hope of our gathering to Christ at his return, as some had done, but instead we are to exhort one another concerning this hope, and we are to do this all the more as we see the day of His return approaching.
          Verses 26-27 then give the hypothetical case if we were to forsake the truth of this hope: “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” In other words, to forsake our glorious gathering to Christ is to forsake the very thing our salvation points to. It would be a forsaking of the truth and a willful sin. Anyone doing this would suffer the condemnation and fate of the adversaries. But remember, this is a hypothetical case. Verse 39 says, “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” God causes true Christians to persevere so that they cannot forsake their hope.
          Further Thoughts
          Hebrews 10:25 has been used to try to convince people that they must not forsake going to church. In fact, it is the only Scripture in the New Testament that could remotely have been used in such a way. But it is wrong to use it this way. The Greek and the context simply do not support it, and when we understand the true meaning of Hebrews 10:25, the entire idea of “going to church” as something we must do entirely falls apart.
          The truth is that the ekklēsia (the word mistranslated as “church” in most English Bibles) is not something we go to; it is what we are. As Christians, we cannot forsake our assembly because we are always assembled before God. We are the assembly, the “called out” of Christ. (The literal meaning of ekklēsia is the “called out ones,” but it was used by Greeks to refer to the people who were called out of the community to be members of the assembly.) Certainly, the Bible also speaks of the ekklēsia in a local sense as being in a city, according to (kata) houses or families, and as coming together (sunerchomai–literally, “come together”). But it is never spoken of as something apart from us that we go to, nor is our coming together locally ever spoken of as a duty. I will address this aspect further in another article.
          In summary, Hebrews 10:25 tells us not to forsake the promise and blessed hope (verse 23 and Titus 2:13) of our gathering to Jesus Christ at His coming (2 Thessalonians 2:1), which is the custom of some. Anciently, the Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection (see Matthew 22:23). Today, many who call themselves Christians, such as liberal theologians and full- or hyper-preterists, do not believe in a literal and future return of Jesus Christ and resurrection from the dead. Others who once had the name Christian also forsake their hope. Saying “my lord delayeth his coming” (Matthew 24:48) and “the resurrection is past already” (2 Timothy 2:18) are both errors. Hebrews 10:25 tells us that instead of forsaking the promise and hope, we are to be encouraging one another, and so much the more as we see the day of His return approaching.

          • sherry on December 27, 2018 at 4:18 pm

            Fessdo,
            You gave an excellent interpretation of truth! The way different modern translations have been written will make or break the truth of scripture. It takes a berean being led by the Holy Spirit to properly understand and give the truth. Thank you for that and for your dedication to research the intended meaning. On the same subject that’s also a missed interpretation is, “dont miss going to Church on the Lords day”
            The false interpretation is from Revelation when John was taken in the Spirit, witnessing what would take place on the “Day of the Lord”. That Day is not a day of worship, how church leaders claim it is, its a day of the Lords judgment, wrath, and darkness for the unrepentant sinner. And the one and only Day of the Lord as yet to come.



          • Son on December 27, 2018 at 5:02 pm

            Sherry, agree fessdo knows his stuff, scriptures and otherwise. Do you think that Jesus has the power to give each person their own personal interpretation of scripture, regardless of the version of bible, language, etc., in accordance with His Will and His Truth? And, do you think the relevance of any given scripture is personal between the individual and God or that there is an absolute truth in all scripture that requires interpretation by only a few anointed individuals and no one else?



        • Son on December 26, 2018 at 11:09 pm

          Brother Lawrence,
          “II Corinthians 13:5 – Jesus is already in all believers whether or not they attend “church” services.”
          But there is also, Matthew 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Me, myself, I prefer to have Him standing right there beside me as well as inside of me. The more Jesus is with me and in me, the better, as far as I’m concerned.
          Also, I think preachers such as Jim and Tammy Faye Baker and Joel Osteen, who work at getting rich in secular wealth through their preaching of The Gospel, are hypocrites and do not serve The Lord in spirit and in truth. They are a stumbling block to the body of Christ, the true believers. However, Paul made it clear that we, as the body of Christ, should willingly and with love, contribute to those whose calling by God is to preach the gospel and care for His flock. The issue is the motivation of the preacher/pastor/servant of The Lord. So, Lawrence, although I agree with you it’s a sin for the wolves to “fleece the flock” for their own personal aggrandizement, in order to worship material possessions and the fleshly accoutrements of the world and that they do not truly serve God, I do believe that those who serve the church and depend upon God for their daily bread should be supported by the body of Christ, whom they serve and devote their lives on this Earth.
          1 Corinthians 9:11-14 “If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.”
          Finally, this thread is, to me, a valuable and insightful forum through which we share fellowship in The Spirit of Christ, agreed. I, personally, prefer eye-to-eye contact and personal friendship and companionship with others who love, worship and strive to obey our blessed Lord and Savior Jesus to the impersonality of a computer screen. That being said, I do value the wisdom and exhortation of my beloved, esteemed brethren who participate in continuing this thread.
          With His Love,

          Dave

        • Son on December 27, 2018 at 12:10 pm

          @Richard – I think you should address fessdo for the answer to your question. Somehow, I think he can give you the answer.
          As for myself, I think I’ll just keep communing with Jesus, praying and reading The Bible and attending the church I have found to share my faith with others who are interested in sharing their faith in HIM with me. I am at peace with God, thanks to The Charity, Mercy and Grace of Jesus. I hope that you, too, will find that peace, Richard.

          Dave

        • Son on December 27, 2018 at 12:36 pm

          fessdo, do you think that Judas Iscariot ever truly believed that Jesus is The Christ?

          • fessdo on December 27, 2018 at 1:25 pm

            Judas was the treasurer (money man), I think he believed Jesus was a way to fill the bag not the soul.



          • Son on December 27, 2018 at 3:14 pm

            So THAT’S where Jim and Tammy Faye, etc., got the idea!



          • fessdo on December 27, 2018 at 3:39 pm

            Now that’s funny, but you have got me thinking. I always thought Judas got pissed at Jesus for giving the meeting money to the poor.
            John 13:29 “For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor”.
            The disciples wouldn’t have thought he was giving to the poor unless it was a habit with Jesus to do so. So it could have been that Judas was a con-man and a con-man’s thinking is everybody is running a scam, so all Jesus teach was just a scam to him???



          • Son on December 27, 2018 at 3:55 pm

            My point was that if Judas did not ever believe that Jesus is The Christ, why did Jesus allow Judas to stick around with the 11 other disciples until Judas betrayed Him? Wouldn’t Judas be a stumbling block to the other disciples, not to mention all whom Jesus taught? Jesus knew everything, so He had to know that Judas was a con-man from the start, if that were the case. If Judas DID, on the other hand, once truly believe that Jesus is The Christ, then Judas fell from Grace. Now, if one man can fall from Grace, is it not possible for ANY man to fall from Grace?



          • fessdo on December 27, 2018 at 4:21 pm

            God had to use somebody for the job and Judas was the man. As for falling from grace I think people who teach that it is possible to lose your salvation normally use several prooftexts. At first glance the verses do appear to prove their point. However, upon further study it becomes clear that they have taken the verses out of context and forced a meaning upon the text which the author never intended. A case in point is Galatians 5:4.
            I have had people point to Galatians 5:4 and say, “Doesn’t Paul say that at least some of the Galatian Christians had fallen from grace? And, if they could fall from grace, so can we today.”
            How did they take the verse out of context?
            We would agree that the book is addressed to Christians (Galatians 1:6,9; 5:1).
            We would also agree that some of the readers had fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4) and some were on the verge of doing so (Galatians 5:2).
            We would even agree that it is possible for believers today to fall from grace. The text clearly does not limit this falling to the Galatian Christians only. Any Christian who reverts to seeking to be justified by law has fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).
            The problem is in the conclusion we draw, not in the premises. The whole issue here is what falling from grace means. Does it mean that the believers in question have fallen from their positional standing in grace? If it does, then Paul contradicts himself because in other passages he clearly states that is impossible (cf. Romans 8:38-39; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; Colossians 2:13-14; 1 Thessalonians 5:10; 2 Timothy 2:13). Since scripture is God’s Word, it cannot contradict itself. Thus, whatever Paul meant by falling from grace he did not mean falling from one’s position as a child of God.
            Is there not another obvious alternative, one which fits the context and Pauline and biblical theology perfectly? Falling from grace means that a believer who reverts to pharisaical thinking and practices has fallen from a present experience of grace. While our position in the grace of God is secure, our experience of His grace is not.
            If a believer today is unwittingly duped into joining a works-salvation cult, he will cease to experience God’s grace until he leaves the cult. In fact, if a believer joins any group, cult or otherwise, which teaches that we must produce good works in order to maintain our salvation, he will cease to experience grace. Even the linking of assurance to the quality of our lives can lead a believer to fall from a daily experience of grace.



          • Son on December 27, 2018 at 5:17 pm

            Well, fessdo, I can’t predict what God will do, but it has always been my belief that God’s Will is done. Judas was chosen to betray Jesus and I don’t believe there was a thing Judas could have done to prevent that.
            Night has fallen, Lewis, and there’s nothing we can do about it.
            I don’t have all the answers and I am not the most sophisticated guy when it comes to interpreting all of the small nuances of scripture. I just strive to connect with Jesus in all ways I can think of, including daily prayer, reading my bible, sharing in His Spirit with other believers, and communing with Him in my spirit. Our blessed, kind, generous Lord gives me a peace in my soul that let’s me know He loves me. I believe He will never desert me or forsake me. He never has and I believe He never will. I believe I can count on Jesus to the very end, to The Day of The Lord. I believe He will save me. I don’t need to examine every single facet of what is written in the bible to understand, in my soul, what I read there. And, if I do have a question about what is written in the bible or about God’s Grace, I ask my brethren, such as you, dear brother. I share all of this with those who read this thread and have ears to hear.
            Thank you, Jesus, for the peace that you give me, Lord.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 27, 2018 at 6:04 pm

            Dave,
            It’s obvious that you’re a man full of grace, the best definition for grace I ever heard is ” god’s ability in you to do what you don’t have the ability to do”. When you see a person with the amount of peace you have, people realize that no human ability has the power to produce peace like that. It’s only thru God’s power His ability in you that you can have such peace and rest. I will say if I could find a church with just a few Daves in it I would dust off the old Sunday dress shoes.



          • Son on December 27, 2018 at 6:30 pm

            You are too kind, my brother! And I hope God will lead you to a gathering, church or otherwise, of believers who share my view of our precious, perfect Lord Jesus (perhaps the church I attend at this time!) It’s a shame to waste those “old Sunday dress shoes”! ; )



          • Son on December 28, 2018 at 2:31 am

            One more thing I would like to reiterate to you, brother fessdo, and to anyone else who reads this blog: I realize that I, in my flesh, am the lowest snail dung at the bottom of the Marianas Trench. But for the sacrifice and grace of Jesus, who spilled His precious blood for an unworthy sinner like me, I am lost and without hope. I am humble and grateful in my thanks to Jesus for redeeming an unworthy sinner such as I am. All blessing, honor, glory and power unto The Most High, Who sitteth upon the throne and reighneth forever and ever and unto His only begotten Son, The Holy Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, Word of God made flesh, who hath redeemed me and preserved my soul unto eternal life in His Kingdom through HIS sacrifice! If there is ANYTHING worthy in me, or of grace in me, it is The Holy Spirit of our Lord Jesus! Hallowed be His Holy Name forever and ever! I am eternally humble and grateful to HIM. Amen.



        • John on January 10, 2019 at 7:40 pm

          look at all the sick poor alone people out there that don’t make it to church. the church say’s God will wink am eye for those pour souls. Sorry they never had a chance to speak or know Jesus at all. Sucks believing Jesus faith and being more run down for it. better time all ways thought in the future but no not yet.

          • John on January 10, 2019 at 7:47 pm

            DAVE/ FESSDO/SON Howdy brothers in Jesus and a few more



          • fessdo on January 10, 2019 at 9:07 pm

            John Boy,
            Try again tomorrow before you get to deep into that six pack, you’ll make more sense then.
            Fessdo



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 10:42 am

            Fessdo, you never fail to make me laugh. How do you come up with this stuff? lololol!

            God bless you, dear brother!

            Dave



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 10:47 am

            John, this world is an f’d up place. No doubt about that. And all we have is Jesus to hold out any hope that things will ever be better. What would we do without Jesus? As one sister/friend of my says, “Surely we would perish.” So, praise God, thank God, bless God for sending us His Only Begotten Son to give us hope that we may live forever with Him in His perfect kingdom of Heaven. If we never lived here on earth, we wouldn’t have the chance to live forever with Him in Paradise.

            With His Love,

            Dave



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 11:46 am

            John, our Lord told me to share some scriptures with you, so here you go:
            Revelation 21:4
            “He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
            Matthew 11:28
            “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”
            Romans 8:18
            “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.”
            James 2:5
            “Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?”
            2 Corinthians 8:9
            “For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.”
            Luke 6:20-21
            “And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied. “Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.”
            Mark 10:31
            “But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.”

            Peace to you, brother John.

            Dave



          • John on January 11, 2019 at 5:04 pm

            Dave ‘. thanks for the Bible verses and i sure need the faith to continue in believe. Son-of thanks also. i used to be johnboy on on site some were. i don’t drink but was put on a very nasty medication for a little rash . medication called prednisone triamcinolone- steroid a year ago for only 2 days. it put me through steroid psycosis and other shit – depression recovering though. i have a sick phsycotic drunk next door on mental disability . he i bindge drinks every 3 days in a role bangs on floor lowd sucky music night and day. i talked with him about God JESUS and it made him worse. he keeps making threats and i want to call cops or go crazy. i just moved here a month ago from a place i lived for 20 years . this is the place i get from a church and people praying for me to fined some pease. well any way . sorry for my spelling. i just want to know i am saved in my sin and the Lod Jesus Christ would give me a more feeling of knowing i am saved. sorry i am still having confused depressed fog brain recovering from this not aproved steroid by the FDA made in newangland. thanks and i hope i can keep up with you



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 6:04 pm

            Bro John, needless to say, you have to get off the booze and drugs. Maybe try walking, or something instead. Jesus loves you no matter what but you should at least try to meet Him halfway, right? Just lighten up some on getting f’d up, do it for Him, and see if it doesn’t help some in connecting with Him.
            Romans 8:38-39
            “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
            You are at The Lord’s Mercy, brother. NONE OF US HAS FAITH. Whatever faith you have, whatever faith I have, it is a gift from God. Try to live in accordance with His Will for your life. I just don’t think He wants you to crash and burn. I don’t think He wants that for any of us, especially those such as you whom He has chosen to believe that He has redeemed us and saved us unto eternal life in His Kingdom.
            Please try to go just a little less hard at the stuff that messes with your body and your brain. Maybe, wait until later in the day to start anesthetizing, capisce? Break away from the pattern, bro. Find a way.
            Ephesians 2:8
            “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”

            With His Love for you, bro John

            Dave



          • John on January 11, 2019 at 7:03 pm

            i am not on booz only a medication. i do walk and also a piano key boardest. i work on my truck and repare things and any thing i can possibly doo! i don’t know but do you go to a hospital or doctor for any injury? God with us son-of



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 7:05 pm

            Brother Fessdo,
            It is obvious that you have been blessed by God with a spirit of discernment. I laughed at how you chided John about getting out of his cups with your matchless, ironic sense of humor, which I personally embrace, but you were absolutely right in your assessment, it now appears. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and experience with me and our brethren on this thread. I greatly respect you and consider you very dear to me, brother Fessdo, as brother in His Spirit and I’m sure that you are held in the same esteem by many others who read this forum but do not write here, as well.. Of this, I am sure.
            Please stay with us and share your gifts from The Lord with us. I am thankful that Jesus put you here.

            With His Love,

            Your bro Dave



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 8:06 pm

            Listen, brother John, you need to realize that I am not Jesus or anything close to that. I do not have the power to deal with the world’s problems, or yours, or even my own.
            I am willing to serve The Lord when and how He prompts me and I have tried to share His Love with my brethren on this thread.
            My gut reaction to your comments is to tell you that you need to eliminate the substance-induced confusion that is muddling your thinking and damaging your soul. Only Jesus can set you on the straight and narrow path that leads to His Kingdom. I believe He will be faithful to you in doing just that. So, commune with Jesus, read your bible and learn His Word and trust Him to bring you to the place you need to be, in accordance with his perfect Will. That is the best I can share with you.
            Like The Allman Brothers sang, “Now, I ain’t no saint and I sure as hell ain’t no savior.”
            I, too, deal with the demons and problems that plague me on this earthly plane. But, Jesus is always there to guide me and renew me, when I get tired and weak, praise God. You need to turn to Him. you have that choice available to you. You believe that Jesus is The Lord, right? He can do what I cannot. And try to remember that there are always those in this world that must deal with even more difficult trials than you face as a man. And me, too.

            All praise and glory to Jesus.

            Dave

            May God bless you, brother.



          • John on January 11, 2019 at 8:27 pm

            Dave i got ya AND NEED Jesus at my weak points not my strong. almond bro yes. i believe in Jesus is helping more than i will ever know. bro Dave thanks for your helping pro- more than you may think. i need to read more scrip- and love to listen to you guys.



          • Son on January 22, 2019 at 12:47 pm

            Brother John, I was ready to give up on this forum, but I’ll stick around to give whatever help Jesus enables me to provide to others. Just depend upon Jesus. Your life is in God’s Hands and you will live in accordance with His Will. So be it. Be thankful that Jesus is with you.
            Luke 9:23
            “Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. ”
            John 15:19
            “If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.”
            God chose YOU, out of the world, to give faith in Him to you. What is more important than that? What is more important than where we shall spend all of eternity?
            Mark 8:36
            “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”
            Be thankful for the faith God has given to you and will not take away. Jesus is not an Indian-giver. He has given you eternal life in Paradise. Hang on to that thought, brother John.
            Be humble and grateful. Amen.

            Your bro in Jesus,

            Dave



      • Chris on January 9, 2019 at 12:52 pm

        Dave, Jesus also said to Tithe 10%. So it is very unfortunate to hear that you only make $50 a week by your (10%) weekly $5 bill that you “toss” into the collection jar.

        • Son on January 9, 2019 at 1:28 pm

          Hi Chris,
          Would you please refer me to the passage in the Bible where Jesus “said to Tithe 10%”?

          TIA

          Dave

          • fessdo on January 9, 2019 at 3:00 pm

            Dave,
            Don’t hold your breath on Chris getting you an answer, he’s just another one who has heard about but NOT read the bible. The word tithes is only in the new testament 5 times, once in Luke 18 about The Pharisee standing and praying (or bragging) about tithing and four times in Hebrew, nowhere did Jesus say tithes under the new covenant. To work in tithing in the church today you have to get under the old law.

            Fessdo



          • Son on January 9, 2019 at 3:54 pm

            Yeah, fessdo, I figured I wouldn’t hear back from Chris with an answer to my question. He must be a Catholic having a rough day. He doesn’t seem to be too worried about judging others, based upon his comments so far. Evidently, he hasn’t read the bible enough to be familiar with the passage about “remove the plank from your own eye before you attempt to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.” And evidently, he’s been brainwashed by the good ole Catholic church into thinking that God commands us to tithe.
            Catholics – gotta love ’em. They kind of remind me of Jews under the Mosaic law, in a way.
            Customs of men…how ’bout them rosary beads! ; ) And you gotta love the costumes their highest dignitaries dress up in for special occasions. lol – I just don’t think Jesus would have worn one of those Ronald McDonald outfits.
            All praise, honor, glory and power to our precious Lord Jesus, who guides his children to do His Will through the prompting of His blessed Holy Spirit. Amen.



        • fessdo on January 9, 2019 at 4:22 pm

          Oh Dave,
          LOL I needed that chuckle today, but you know in order to afford one of those ” Ronald McDonald outfits” the people have to tithe.
          Fear or greed is the only way
          you can sell tithing to churches todays.

          • Son on January 9, 2019 at 10:25 pm

            I wish I could attach a picture to emphasize the ornateness and presumptuousness of the outfits worn by the Catholic hierarchy on special occasions, brother Fessdo. Anyone can Goodgle the subject to fully appreciate my meaning in referring to the absurdity of the lengths these Catholic “dignitaries” go to make themselves appear as gods among the common people.. Well, I cannot save the world. Jesus has already done that and I am certainly not able to tie the laces on His sandals. I can’t help but have a laugh, even though the Catholic Church, which enslaves its followers, and that’s not funny, is such an obvious scam. Customs of man.
            John 4:24 “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
            God does not and NEVER dressed up like Ronald McDonald to capture the worship of the flock and collect “tithes”. What foolishness that way of thinking is..



        • John on January 11, 2019 at 8:38 pm

          Dave i got ya AND NEED Jesus at my weak points not my strong. almond bro yes. i believe in Jesus is helping more than i will ever know. bro Dave thanks for your helping pro- more than you may think. i need to read more scrip- and love to listen to you guys.

          • John on January 11, 2019 at 10:31 pm

            Imean i need Jesus at my strong points ,not my week ,for when i feel good i am bad and when feeling bad sick and begging for Jesus then i am more to the good.



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 11:45 pm

            Brother John,
            As long as you are depending on Jesus to get you through this thing we call “Life, you will be just fine. Jesus will find a way for you in His Perfect Will. Jesus is our life. We have no life without HIM.

            Stay blessed,

            Your bro Dave



          • fessdo on January 12, 2019 at 8:25 am

            2 Corinthians 1:8-11 The Message (MSG)
            8-11 We don’t want you in the dark, friends, about how hard it was when all this came down on us in Asia province. It was so bad we didn’t think we were going to make it. We felt like we’d been sent to death row, that it was all over for us. As it turned out, it was the best thing that could have happened. Instead of trusting in our own strength or wits to get out of it, we were forced to trust God totally—not a bad idea since he’s the God who raises the dead! And he did it, rescued us from certain doom. And he’ll do it again, rescuing us as many times as we need rescuing. You and your prayers are part of the rescue operation—I don’t want you in the dark about that either. I can see your faces even now, lifted in praise for God’s deliverance of us, a rescue in which your prayers played such a crucial part.



          • Son on January 12, 2019 at 1:53 pm

            Right on, Fessdo. You always come up with a pertinent, applicable scripture to address the situation!

            God bless you, bro!

            Dave



        • John on January 22, 2019 at 5:28 pm

          Thanks Dave’. Jesus would stay i think. the feeling of some one human created from God and or perish burn in hell for all eternity is a very scary sad thing to have to believe and hope all Gods creation does not perish, even my worst enemy . for they are human the same as i need to for give them as true with in my best understanding under God. Jesus saved the none believer next to him on the cross , we live with blind faith to grow in spirit and faith should help see Jesus in our heat like the man next to Jesus. Thanks Brother John

    • Paul Noblin on December 28, 2018 at 2:35 am

      I was thrown out of Church because I believe that the past changes. I also questioned my pastor. He also told me that I am going to hell. He told me that I was not welcome in his office unless he was notified, so that he could get two other people to attend. He would not answer his telephone when I called. This is the first church that he pastored.
      I have been going to other churches occasionally. Sometimes, I still attend the eleven o’clock service at this (my) church. In the place of a sermon, he reads a chapter of the Bible. I told him that he had not been pasteurized, yet. The church congregation is small and elderly. It is dying.
      I found The Key to the Universe. The place where I get the most resistance is in church leadership. They jump to preposterous conclusions. They say that I think that I am Jesus Christ. I don’t. Still, I have found The Key to the Universe.

      The Key to the Universe;
      Revelation One Nineteen
      Write down a brief account of your day, your problems that day, and a list of tasks to do the next day.
      ©1985 Paul Noblin

      Read Rev.1:19 (KJV).
      “Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;”
      Write down the past, present, and future.
      Align your inside mind with the outside world (reality including Christ), and you will be one with All.

      I have also solved the mystery of 666.
      It’s all done with approximations.

      Take the age of menopause. Subtract the age of the puberty. This is the years of sex life a woman has. Multiply this by 12, this will be the number of months a woman is sexually active. Multiply this by 2 (for the rhythm method of birth control), adjust downward because women live longer in modern times.

      The AVERAGE woman can sleep with 666 men in her life time.
      An AVERAGE man cannot come close to that.

      Here it is. It is the number of a man (men). It also has something to do with the nature of evil.

      When this pastor leaves, I will regularly attend all of the church services. In the mean time, I won’t be going to church. I hope that the church will still be intact after he leaves.
      This pastor grew tomatoes for a living before he was elected to be a pastor. A week before he threw me out of church, he told me that he used to grow a lot of marijuana in between his rows of tomatoes. I really do not think that believing the past changes is the reason for him to throw me out. I am a Practicing Disciple of Jesus Christ and I have read every word of the Bible, twice.
      Keeping a notebook does little harm. I hope that someone benefits from this post. I really do have a copyright on one sentence.

      Warm Regards… Paul.
      Jesus saves. There is only one path to Heaven. The only way to be on this straight and narrow path is through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is truly the Son of God. Praise be to our Lord. May God’s will be done.

      • fessdo on December 28, 2018 at 8:31 am

        P.N.
        You said ” I really do not think that believing the past
        changes is the reason for him to throw me out”,,,, If I was the pastor that would more than do it for me. Your pastor must be a pretty big boy just to want two bodyguard around when you show up, I would want at lease four with me.

        • Son on December 28, 2018 at 2:45 pm

          fessdo, LOVE your sense of humor. Personally, I was at a loss as to what kind of response to give to PN.
          What is his point? PN, just find a new church and stay off the weed! that should solve your problem.
          Jesus reigns.

          God bless you guys.

          Dave

          • Paul Noblin on December 29, 2018 at 1:43 am

            Dave,
            I never smoke weed.
            I made a few points. I shared The Key to the Universe and my solution to the mystery of 666. I also tried to explain why I don’t go to Church anymore. Perhaps, I should take your advice and simply find a new church. You are probably right. I think that I will do just that.
            I want to make another point. I have been promised eternal life. The instant before I die, God will beam me up. A body will be left behind, but I will be in a new spiritual one. Christians never die. That sounds odd, but that is what I believe.

            Warm Regards… Paul.



        • Paul Noblin on December 29, 2018 at 1:14 am

          After reading your notes to me, I thought about what you said for more than a few hours. I want to thank you. I am not being sarcastic. You payed me a great compliment. Few people can see my perspective. Have a great day… Paul.

      • Son on December 29, 2018 at 1:46 pm

        Brother Paul, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with my response to your message. Some of the things you said sounded a little psycho, hence fessdo’s response, I imagine. What did you mean by saying, “The past changes?”
        Also, I can understand why some people would think you flipped by say things such as, “I have the Key to the Universe” and “I understand the meaning of 666?” Kinda nutty, if you ask me. 1 Corinthians 8:2 tells us, ” And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.” Perhaps you might reflect on that scripture before claiming to know things that may or may not be absolute reality. As Festus said to Jesus in Acts 26:24, “And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad.” And no, Paul, you are definitely NOT Jesus Christ.
        As to your belief that we shall never die as Christians, I have the tendency to think, although I do not know for sure, that you may be correct.
        I would cite John 8:51, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.” and also Hebrews 9:27, “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” So that, if we have died to our flesh as believers of Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf, we have already died once.
        There just may be multiple raptures. For example, I get hit by a truck. You think I died. But, just before that truck hit me, I see Jesus on a cloud surrounded by His heavenly host and am raptured up into the clouds to be with Him forever in His Holy Kingdom of Heaven. Right now, we don’t know. It is simply speculation.
        Every night I pray, “Maranatha, dear Lord Jesus, come soon, Lord, come back right now if it may be your Will and rapture me up into the air and take me to Heaven to spend all of eternity worshipping, serving, obeying, praising and glorifying you and our Holy Father and to live in perfect peace, harmony, bliss and ecstasy with the holy angels and my beloved brethren in your chosen flock!”
        I appreciate your heartfelt (I think) response to my somewhat derisive comment. There may be hope for you yet, son. God’s Peace and Blessing and Wisdom be upon you now and forever, my brother.

        With His Love,

        Dave

        • Son on December 29, 2018 at 1:51 pm

          typo correction: Festus said to PAUL in Acts 26:24

          Dave

      • Chris on January 9, 2019 at 1:03 pm

        Paul,
        Buddy, first and foremost, look up the word “pasteurized”. In your statement “I told him that he had not been pasteurized, yet.” you are killing me here.

        No comment on the rest of your message, I still count stop laughing from this one.

    • Robin Baldwin on December 29, 2018 at 8:50 pm

      Well said.

    • Carey Nieuwhof on January 2, 2019 at 7:06 am

      Lawrence, it’s hard to keep up with all the comments on posts like this, but after reading yours…I just want to thank you for what you said. Indeed, don’t give up. We need people like you to carve a better future.

    • Son on January 2, 2019 at 9:50 pm

      Well, fessdo, ole buddy, if you are depending upon this thread for sharing in Jesus’ spirit, you must be somewhat disappointed at this point by the lack of enthusiasm here. I’m sure glad I belong to a church now where I can share fellowship, warmth and friendship with my brothers and sisters. I hope that you have found a church with some “Daves” ; ) lol.
      The discourse/conversation on this forum is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. Just like some of the churches I have attended in the bad old days. “Well said”, gee, that’s really inspirational and accretive to encouraging further conversation about the issues with which we, as followers of Christ, should ponder.

      God bless you, brother.

      Dave

      • fessdo on January 3, 2019 at 8:22 am

        Dave,
        1 Kings 19:11-13 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
        11 Then the Lord said to Elijah, “Go, stand in front of me on the mountain. I, the Lord, will pass by you.”[a] Then a very strong wind blew. The wind caused the mountains to break apart. It broke large rocks in front of the Lord. But that wind was not the Lord. After that wind, there was an earthquake. But that earthquake was not the Lord. 12 After the earthquake, there was a fire. But that fire was not the Lord. After the fire, there was a quiet, gentle voice.[b]
        13 When Elijah heard the voice, he used his coat to cover his face and went to the entrance to the cave and stood there. Then a voice said to him, “Elijah, why are you here?”

        1 Corinthians 3:5-7 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
        5 Is Apollos so important? Is Paul so important? We are only servants of God who helped you believe. Each one of us did the work God gave us to do. 6 I planted the seed and Apollos watered it. But God is the one who made the seed grow. 7 So the one who plants is not important, and the one who waters is not important. Only God is important, because he is the one who makes things grow.
        Fessdo,

        • Son on January 3, 2019 at 11:07 am

          fessdo – my wife suffered from pain in her legs at night. I had prayed to Jesus many times to heal her, with no results. I asked a brother at the church I now attend to pray with me for her. He did not offer to pray for her, but reminded me about how Jesus put mud on the eyes of the blind man and told him to wash in the pool of Siloam and the man was healed and could see. He then commented that Jesus could have just said, “You are healed” and healed the blind man, but, as my brother at church told me, it took an act of faith on the part of the blind man to complete the miracle of healing. He suggested I get some “EmergenC” and some plain gelatin and give it to my wife, which I did. Her leg pain went away. When I gave her the supplements, I believed they would heal her. I acted on faith. My brother at church was the reason I was given the opportunity to act on faith in Jesus. That is why I need fellowship at church: because my brethren there can add to my knowledge of and appreciation for the ways of God, enrich me in my faith through the sharing of His Holy Spirit. He gave us brethren for a reason.
          “When two or three are gathered in my name, I am there also.”
          1 John 1:7 “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
          Perhaps The Lord leads you to a different path than me. I do believe that if you have God’s “peace that passeth all understanding”, you are saved and justified in your faith, but the enrichment of your spirit by association with other spirit-led Christians is truly edifying and is a blessing from God. This I also believe.

          Dave

          • fessdo on January 3, 2019 at 12:21 pm

            The brother at church was right in not praying, Jesus NEVER did pray for the sick. You tell 99.9% of todays church people that and they’ll look at you like you’re crazy. I’ve told people that I will NOT pray for your sickness but I will curse that sickness and command it to leave your body in Jesus name, and they will tell me “oh that’s ok I’ll pass, maybe God is getting glory out of my sickness”. Sad but true people will rather stay ill than leave their tradition even though their tradition doesn’t work. The best definition of a fool is someone doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Just ask yourself how many people in todays church would let Jesus put mud in their eye.
            Looks like you did find a good one Dave.
            Fessdo,



          • Son on January 3, 2019 at 1:10 pm

            Well, I hope you don’t give up trying to find a “good one”, brother fessdo. Fellowship with other spirit-filled, Jesus-minded Christians is a blessing from God. May he lead you on the path of peace and righteousness, my brother.

            Dave



    • Linda Bailey on January 13, 2019 at 5:51 am

      “Remeber the Sabbath and keep it holy”…….the 4th Commandment. Nowhere in Scripture does Christ or God change the Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th day of the week. The 10 Commandments were not “nailed to the cross” when Christ was crucified. He came to fulfill the law, not do away with it. We are told by Christ to not add to or take away from His Word. I personally cannot assemble with believers who gather together on Sunday as their day of worship. The Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday by the Catholic Church. Hence, churches all over the world have submitted to the Catholic Church and not to Christ. I am not a 7th Day Adventist. I am a true believer in Christ and His Word. Churches must submit to Christ, not other entities.

      • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 10:03 am

        Linda,
        What does it mean to you that Jesus ” fulfill the law”?

  10. Gary V Carter on December 10, 2018 at 8:30 am

    “You don’t go to church. You are the church?” No. Impossible. “Church” is a collective noun. To say “You are the church” is like saying “You are the team.” That only works in tennis and golf not hockey or football. “You don’t go to church.” True! “You are the church.” False. If you give a person the “right” to say church is singular then they can have a perfectly unified church of one. Again. Impossible.

    However, the main sentiments you are expressing are bang on. The New Testament never contemplates a Christian who doesn’t meet with others. In fact, it commands against it. Hebrews 10:24-25.

    • Son on December 10, 2018 at 11:03 am

      In Hebrews 10:25, we read “but exhorting one another”. Herein is where the conflict lies with organized churches. In too many of them, the “leadership” of the church is selfish, prideful and
      authoritative, ignoring the needs of the flock and reveling in their position of power. “Lording it over the sheeples”, is how I would put it. In a truly functional, Christian-oriented church, the leadership is about tending to and serving their flock, humble, and in obedience with our Lord’s instruction in Mark 9:35 “And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.” Personally speaking, I have not given up on finding a true church led by The Love of Jesus and His Holy Spirit. I attended a church yesterday where I have hope of that being the case, but the jury is out until I have been to that church more times to confirm that my perception is genuine. Although I have met with discouraging results in the two previous churches with which I attempted to join in fellowship (prideful, arrogant, elitist leadership, apathetic congregation), I retain the hope that God will lead me to a church that truly represents the body of Christ.

      Dave

      • Stu on December 10, 2018 at 11:28 am

        ” Although I have met with discouraging results in the two previous churches with which I attempted to join in fellowship (prideful, arrogant, elitist leadership, apathetic congregation), I retain the hope that God will lead me to a church that truly represents the body of Christ.”

        Hi Dave. I just wanted to push back a little. When I look for “me” in the Church, I have already forsaken it. Unless I expect to fully see Jesus in all of my relationships (even in only one of my relationships), I have missed the point that I am a messy human being who makes lots of messes; but God thinks I am a mess worth making. The idea of God leading me to “my” perfect church is fallacious even from its onset. We are not supposed to be led to a perfect body of believers, but to flawed, failed, sick people who all need Jesus; and to the extent that we know that, we can be that offering and sacrifice that Jesus wants us to be. No one except Christ of course is that perfect offering and sacrifice.

        One of my best friends—a brother—lied to me. He came to visit me when I was sick. I questioned him, and he admitted that he lied. I felt discouraged, hurt, and untrusting. But he said to me plainly, “If you are expecting to see Christ in everything I do, you will make the same mistake with every person you meet.” He was right on Dave. Christ is our hope and our ideal, and our prayer—but we have not reached it yet. We see only dimly that perfect Christ we hope to attain. I cannot therefore expect it from my brothers and sisters. We are all messy people, but we are messes worth making. Just some thoughts, brother.

        • Son on December 10, 2018 at 11:39 am

          Thanks for the feedback, brother Stu. I’ll let you know how things work out with my new church. I still entertain the hope that there is a church out there where I sense the presence of Jesus and share His Spirit/Presence with the body of the church.

          • Son on December 10, 2018 at 4:13 pm

            I generally did not have conflicts with the congregation at the churches I abandoned. It was the leadership that turned me off. They reminded me of The Pharisees back when our Lord walked on the earth.
            Read Matthew 23 for a nearly perfect description of those prideful, arrogant, self-indulgent church “leaders”. Jesus cursed them, basically. He certainly didn’t seem to hold out any hope for them to change their ways.



    • fessdo on December 10, 2018 at 11:03 am

      Gary V.
      That sounds right, but my question is can a person confess with his mouth that Jesus is lord then believe in his heart that God raise Jesus from the dead, be saved and then for the next 40yrs not go to a church, then die and go to heaven?
      Thanks,

      • Son on December 11, 2018 at 2:36 pm

        Ha ha, fessdo, I still love your sense of humor, even if the humor is unintentional.
        What you mean here, I gather, is that if a man accepts Jesus as His Lord and Savior, believes that Jesus has saved him and then gets marooned on a deserted island for the rest of his life immediately after he believes and is saved, will Jesus bring him to His Kingdom of Heaven to live in The Glory of God forever, even though, obviously, he never attends a service in a building called a “church” with other followers/disciples of Christ? If you ask Gregg, he might respond, “Only if that man doesn’t make a habit of having sex with the monkeys on the island.”
        I think I already know what you will say about that. Ha ha ha, you’re a trip, bro.

        Dave

      • fessdo on December 11, 2018 at 4:43 pm

        Dave,
        I knew Gary V wouldn’t have an answer here, he’s the type that has problems with the deep questions (the one that take a yes or no). Reminds me of the old town drunk that staggered in to a revival meeting one night and sat in the back to get warm. When the preacher saw him he told the drunk that God was a loving forgiving god and would he like to get saved? The old drunk said oh God won’t save me I’ve been no good all my life, but the preacher said you don’t understand how loving and forgiving God is, and the old drunk got up and said I’ve been too bad to be saved and left. The next night the same thing happened, the old drunk staggered in drunk as a dog and the preacher and a few more workers started in with how loving and forgiving God is but after a while the drunk got up and said I’ve been way to bad for God to forgive and love me then left. This went on for all week with more and more people each night telling the drunk how loving and forgiving God is and he would leave telling them how bad he was and God wouldn’t love or forgive him. Then on the six night everyone was so focused on the drunk telling him how loving and forgiving God is, that the old drunk accepted Jesus as his Lord and was saved. Everyone was so happy telling him you see God is a loving and forgiving god he agreed and promised to come back the next day. On the seventh day he returned drunker than ever and when the people saw him they gasped, one by one told him how bad he was and that God would punished him for this and he wouldn’t be allowed in heaven and would have to spend eternity in hell. The old drunk looked up with tears streaming down and asked “what happened to the loving and forgive God that saved me”?

        • Son on December 11, 2018 at 6:44 pm

          Great story, ole pal fessdo! ROTFLMAO! I knew you’d come up with something good after that deserted island analogy. btw, whatever happened to our esteemed nemesis, Gregg? He’s been silent. ????

          • Son on December 11, 2018 at 7:03 pm

            In all seriousness here: I’m having this discussion/argument with the pastor at my new church, Faith Family Church, which has impressed me since I recently began attending. I like the pastor and the members of the congregation whom I have met so far.
            Free Will vs. determinism. I wrote about how God saved me by putting into my head the thought of Calvin’s doctrine of “The Elect”. Do we have “free will”? I say, “No”. God already knows what we will do, what we will choose, before we were even born. God’s Will is done. You better hope God’s Will is done, or Satan still has a chance. God is not an Indian Giver. If He saves you, He has saved you! Romans 10:9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” God never lies. You can believe Him. He will always find a way for His children, His chosen, to emerge victorious. If not, there is no hope for any of us.

            Stay blessed, dear brother fessdo!

            Dave



          • Son on December 11, 2018 at 7:07 pm

            And, dare I bring up the subject of Judas Iscariot? Was he pre-destined to betray our/his Lord? Perhaps, he never really believed that Jesus IS The Lord. Doan know…



    • Susan Morris on December 14, 2018 at 11:53 am

      My daughter, now 35, was raised in church. It breaks my heart to know she has no interest in church. I now have
      a grandson with another one on the way. My greatest fear is that they will never know Jesus. She tells me she believes in God, but not Jesus. Her beliefs are more aligned with what the Jews believe. She has lost her way and I don’t know if she will ever find her way back. She told me recently, “There is so much hypocrisy in the church”. I told her that there are bad people in ALL professions. We are not perfect and yes, there IS hypocrisy in the church. I also told her, you have to decide if you would rather spend a few short years here on earth with them, or an eternity with them…..
      it’s your decision. Please pray for her.

      • Son on December 14, 2018 at 12:24 pm

        James 5:16
        “Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.”

      • Stu on December 14, 2018 at 12:25 pm

        Hi Susan. Thank you for the request to pray for your daughter. I did. It should be every parent’s wish to see their children come to know the Lord. My boy has walked away from Jesus. My sister and my wife do not know him. There are thousands of families who don’t. But keep praying. The parable of the judge and the old widow was given to us by the Lord to remind us never to give up praying. God loves to do what we consider to be the impossible. It is a miracle to know Christ—something impossible for us to do on our own—but Jesus delights in our asking. Don’t give up.

        • Son on December 14, 2018 at 12:29 pm

          ” It is a miracle to know Christ—something impossible for us to do on our own.”
          I agree, brother Stu.
          John 15:16
          “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.”

          • Stu on December 14, 2018 at 10:29 pm

            Thank you for your words of encouragement and agreement. I also like the declaration given in the next verse: “This is my command; love each other.” I thought about why this command was given several times in the OT yet why John thought he should include it again in the NT. I thought perhaps that it is because the whole world is against us, but Jesus is reminding the brothers that all we have are one another while we live here. Instead of pecking and picking at one another as we see the “birds “of the world doing, it is better to overlook the small things said about us and consider those who are looking for something greater in life. Just my two cents. Thanks for your reply. 🙂



        • fessdo on December 14, 2018 at 6:51 pm

          Stu,
          Ever heard that “hypocrites love to pray”?
          Matthew 6:5 King James Version (KJV)
          5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

      • fessdo on December 14, 2018 at 5:21 pm

        Susan,
        I would like to help you but what do you mean “Please pray for her”?

        • Son on December 14, 2018 at 6:16 pm

          Ho ho ho, old pal fessdo, I KNEW that was coming. I thought it but didn’t come right out and say it.

          • Son on December 14, 2018 at 6:26 pm

            Night has fallen, Lewis.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 14, 2018 at 6:40 pm

            Hosea 4:6 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
            6 “My people are destroyed because they have no knowledge.



          • Son on December 15, 2018 at 7:01 pm

            John 6:44
            “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
            John 15:16
            “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you.”
            Revelation 20:15
            “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
            I would suggest, Susan, that your daughter needs to get down on her knees and EARNESTLY, SINCERELY, SOLEMNLY, IMPORTUNATELY PRAY for herself, that it might be God’s Will that Jesus reveal Himself to her through His Holy Spirit. Her immortal soul is at stake. You should attempt to bring this FACT to her realization. Jesus loves her and I’m sure He would answer her heartfelt, fervent request to Him to come into her life. That is the only way she will worship, obey and adore our Lord and Savior Jesus. She has to want to know The Truth.

            Blessings to you from our Father in Heaven and His Only Begotten, Holy Son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 15, 2018 at 9:13 pm

            Dave,
            Unless Susie’s little girl is not a “whosoever” as described is John 3:16 she’s screwed?



          • Son on December 16, 2018 at 3:39 pm

            fessdo, re: “Unless Susie’s little girl is not a “whosoever” as described is John 3:16 she’s screwed?”
            1.Read Romans 2 regarding God’s judgment of people
            2.Matthew 19:26 “But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”
            3. I’m not the judge, so I’m not going to judge anyone. Matthew 7:1
            “Judge not, that ye be not judged.”
            However, I recommend to Susie that she explain to her “little girl” of 35 years old that it’s better to be friends with Jesus than to not know Him at all. That would give her some reassurance.
            What do you think, in answer to the question you just asked me?

            God bless, brother.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 16, 2018 at 4:23 pm

            It’s very easy to receive Jesus as your Lord and savior but the hard an almost impossible part is to believe that God made it so simple. When a person goes past the KISS method to receiving from God he’s messing with God’s perfect way (My yoke is easy My burden is light).
            No where in the bible does it say to pray for the lost to be saved, Jesus said ask God for laborers. Matthew 9:37-38 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) 37 Jesus said to his followers, “There is such a big harvest of people to bring in. But there are only a few workers to help harvest them. 38 God owns the harvest. Ask him to send more workers to help gather his harvest.”
            Susan daughter won’t listen to her, but God knows someone that she will listen to, so Susan should ask God to send that person to her daughter and pray that once in faith believing that it’s a done deal. God is not a unjust judge so you don’t have to keep reminding him day after day like those hypocrites that love to pray. Mat 6:5



          • Son on December 16, 2018 at 7:07 pm

            brother fessdo, you make a very good point. Amen to what you said about “KISS” ing it with God.
            God brought this scripture, also, to my attention to share with you and Susan (if she monitors this thread) and to all else who may be concerned: Romans 9:15-18 “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.”

            With His Love,

            Dave



          • Son on December 16, 2018 at 7:12 pm

            And, fwiw, I agree with you, brother fessdo, that one cannot “work” one’s way into God’s Kingdom of Heaven. Christ did everything necessary to get us in there. However, our works are the “fruit” of our faith in Him, I believe. John 14:15 “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” A minor concession to our dear brother Gregg.
            Gregg, hope God is blessing you, bro.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 16, 2018 at 8:20 pm

            Dave,
            “Susan (if she monitors this thread)”
            Oh she’s monitoring she’s just one of those who’s not looking for help but one who likes to have something to complain about (an attention getter). If she really wanted to help her daughter she would have showed her Jesus not just talked about Jesus. As you pointed out about judging people, Jesus didn’t judge he showed mercy and grace which caused other to show mercy and grace. The minute you start to point out people’s wrong doing you shut off any chance to help them because when you start judging them they start judging you. Matt 7:1



          • Son on December 17, 2018 at 4:42 pm

            fessdo, if what you are saying is that you cannot beat someone over the head with a bible and expect to get positive results, I have to agree with you. Yesterday, at my new church, I encountered a number of very interesting fellow-believers in Jesus. They told me about how they had healed a boy in Mexico, whose left leg was around 5 inches shorter than his right leg. They prayed for him in accordance with the prompting of our Lord’s Holy Spirit, believing all the while that Jesus would heal him, they told me, and then watched his leg grow to the same length as the healthy leg. They were both astounded and dumbfounded at the openly manifested Power of God, even though they expected the accomplished results of their prayer. Pretty amazing! I realized then how much I still have to learn about His Kingdom. I plan to attend this spirit-filled church on a regular basis, now. I prayed to God to lead me to a church where His Spirit and His Body are in tune with one another, and He did that for me, I am thinking.
            Stay blessed, dear brother.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 17, 2018 at 6:54 pm

            Dave,
            Run don’t walk— from them!!!

            2 Timothy 3:12-13 The Message (MSG) Anyone who wants to live all out for Christ is in for a lot of trouble; there’s no getting around it. Unscrupulous con men will continue to exploit the faith. They’re as deceived as the people they lead astray. As long as they are out there, things can only get worse.



          • Son on December 18, 2018 at 10:42 am

            fessdo, thanks for the admonition, brother. I will certainly keep a close watch and be diligent about anything resembling a scam with the new church I am attending. Romans 16:17-19 “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.”
            Stay blessed, bro.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 18, 2018 at 1:04 pm

            Dave,
            Romans 16:17-19 is a good verse to live by, just wished I would have knew it a several years ago before getting messed up with the “name-it clam-it’ bunch. Would have been able to retire well off at 50 if I hadn’t ever listen to them, now it’ll be 75,,, “hopefully”.



          • Son on December 18, 2018 at 1:19 pm

            fessdo, can you tell me what happened? What do you mean by “name-it clam-it” bunch? How did the people you refer to cause you to defer your retirement? I’d be interested to find out more, my brother. Whatever it was, I’m a truly sorry for you that you had so discouraging an experience.
            Praying to our Lord Jesus to restore and bless you, dear brother.

            Dave



          • Peter on December 22, 2018 at 8:33 am

            @Dave.
            I may disagree with Fessdo with regards to the whole Grace vs works debate, but I cannot agree with him more about your new church…. run very fast indeed. I once was part of the whole name-it-claim-it deception, also known as the prosperity gospel, but God delivered me from these false teachers. The growing leg trick is one of the most basic deceptions. There is a video on Youtube explaining how this trick works. The deception goes way deeper than this. Please do yourself a favor and research how the penticostal church (supposedly the first wave of The Holy Spirit), the charismatic church (supposedly the second wave of The Holy Spirit) and the prosperity teachings (third wave as they call themselves) came about. These guys are wolves in sheep’s clothing. When Jesus was asked by His deciples about the end times, His very first words were “Take heed that no man deceive you.” because in the end times many will claim that Jesus is The Christ while at the same time deceiving many. Also, stay far away from Joyce Meyers and her friends. These are false teachers and in many cases false prophets that lead many people astray. I am sorry for coming accross so bluntly as I am typing this message with urgency. English is not my first language, so I can either take lots of time trying to type in a way in which I sound more sincere or I could try to get the message across to you ASAP. I choose the latter. Please test my advise by praying about it. I hope you find people to fellowship with. People who are serious about God.



          • Son on December 22, 2018 at 1:05 pm

            @Peter
            Thanks for the admonition, my brother. I will follow up with research on the deceptions you mentioned. I will also approach my new church with caution, slowly and carefully assessing my relationship with the body of Christ that congregates there. Again, I am appreciative and mindful of your advice.

            God bless you, bro.

            Dave



  11. davidandrobin on December 9, 2018 at 10:53 pm

    Wow! Scripture says Christ is the Head of the body and the church is the body. So you say you really love the Head (Christ) but you don’t love the body (the church)? Try that line on your wife and see what kind of response you get!

    • Son on December 10, 2018 at 4:01 pm

      Right. When your wife asks you, “Does my butt look fat in these pants?”, you ALWAYS answer “No, of course not, honey.” Even if the pants are splitting at the seams. lol

      Dave

  12. fessdo on December 3, 2018 at 12:06 pm

    Galatians 3 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
    God’s Blessing Comes Through Faith
    3 You people in Galatia are so foolish! Why do I say this? Because I told you very clearly about the death of Jesus Christ on the cross. But now it seems as though you have let someone use their magical powers to make you forget. 2 Tell me this one thing: How did you receive the Spirit? Did you receive the Spirit by following the law? No, you received the Spirit because you heard the message about Jesus and believed it. 3 You began your life in Christ with the Spirit. Now do you try to complete it by your own power? That is foolish. 4 You have experienced many things. Were all those experiences wasted? I hope they were not wasted! 5 Does God give you the Spirit because you follow the law? Does God work miracles among you because you follow the law? No, God gives you his Spirit and works miracles among you because you heard the message about Jesus and believed it.
    6 The Scriptures say the same thing about Abraham. “Abraham believed God, and because of this faith he was accepted as one who is right with God.”[a] 7 So you should know that the true children of Abraham are those who have faith. 8 The Scriptures told what would happen in the future. These writings said that God would make the non-Jewish people right through their faith. God told this Good News to Abraham before it happened. God said to Abraham, “I will use you to bless all the people on earth.”[b] 9 Abraham believed this, and because he believed, he was blessed. All people who believe are blessed the same as Abraham was.
    10 But people who depend on following the law to make them right are under a curse. As the Scriptures say, “They must do everything that is written in the law. If they do not always obey, they are under a curse.”[c] 11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by the law. The Scriptures say, “The one who is right with God by faith will live forever.”[d]
    12 The law does not depend on faith. No, it says that the only way a person will find life by the law is to obey its commands.[e] 13 The law says we are under a curse for not always obeying it. But Christ took away that curse. He changed places with us and put himself under that curse. The Scriptures say, “Anyone who is hung on a tree[f] is under a curse.”[g] 14 Because of what Jesus Christ did, the blessing God promised to Abraham was given to all people. Christ died so that by believing in him we could have the Spirit that God promised.
    The Law and the Promise
    15 Brothers and sisters, let me give you an example from everyday life: Think about an agreement that one person makes with another. After that agreement is made official, no one can stop it or add anything to it, and no one can ignore it. 16 God made promises to Abraham and his Descendant.[h] The Scripture does not say, “and to your descendants.” That would mean many people. But it says, “and to your Descendant.” That means only one, and that one is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: The agreement that God gave to Abraham was made official long before the law came. The law came 430 years later. So the law could not take away the agreement and change God’s promise.
    18 Can following the law give us the blessing God promised? If we could receive it by following the law, then it would not be God’s promise that brings it to us. But God freely gave his blessings to Abraham through the promise God made.
    19 So what was the law for? The law was given to show the wrong things people do. The law would continue until the special Descendant of Abraham came. This is the Descendant mentioned in the promise, which came directly from God. But the law was given through angels, and the angels used Moses as a mediator to give the law to the people. 20 But when God gave the promise, there was no mediator, because a mediator is not needed when there is only one side, and God is one.[i]
    The Purpose of the Law of Moses
    21 Does this mean that the law works against God’s promises? Of course not. The law was never God’s way of giving new life to people. If it were, then we could be made right with God by following the law. 22 But this is not possible. The Scriptures put the whole world in prison under the control of sin, so that the only way for people to get what God promised would be through faith in[j] Jesus Christ. It is given to those who believe in him.
    23 Before this faith came, the law held us as prisoners. We had no freedom until God showed us the way of faith that was coming. 24 I mean the law was the guardian in charge of us until Christ came. After he came, we could be made right with God through faith. 25 Now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law to be our guardian.
    26-27 You were all baptized into Christ, and so you were all clothed with Christ. This shows that you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 28 Now, in Christ, it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Greek, a slave or free, male or female. You are all the same in Christ Jesus. 29 You belong to Christ, so you are Abraham’s descendants. You get all of God’s blessings because of the promise that God made to Abraham.

    • Gregg Powers on December 3, 2018 at 12:26 pm

      and now read Galatians 5 and 6. Brother, you need to learn what faith is. It is not an abstract intellectual belief…….

    • fessdo on December 3, 2018 at 12:33 pm

      Galatians 5 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
      Keep Your Freedom
      5 We have freedom now, because Christ made us free. So stand strong in that freedom. Don’t go back into slavery again. 2 Listen! I, Paul, tell you that if you start following the law by being circumcised, then Christ cannot help you. 3 Again, I warn everyone: If you allow yourselves to be circumcised, then you must follow the whole law. 4 If you try to be made right with God through the law, your life with Christ is finished—you have left God’s grace. 5 I say this because our hope of being right with God comes through faith. And the Spirit helps us feel sure as we wait for that hope. 6 When someone belongs to Christ Jesus, it is not important if they are circumcised or not. The important thing is faith—the kind of faith that works through love.
      7 You were doing so well. Who caused you to stop following the truth? 8 It certainly wasn’t the one who chose you. 9 Be careful! “Just a little yeast makes the whole batch of dough rise.”[a] 10 I trust in the Lord that you will not believe those different ideas. Someone is trying to confuse you. Whoever it is will be punished.
      11 My brothers and sisters, I don’t teach that a man must be circumcised. If I do teach circumcision, then why am I still being persecuted? If I still taught circumcision, then my message about the cross would not be a problem. 12 I wish those people who are bothering you would add castration[b] to their circumcision.
      13 My brothers and sisters, God chose you to be free. But don’t use your freedom as an excuse to do what pleases your sinful selves. Instead, serve each other with love. 14 The whole law is made complete in this one command: “Love your neighbor[c] the same as you love yourself.”[d] 15 If you continue hurting each other and tearing each other apart, be careful, or you will completely destroy each other.
      The Spirit and Human Nature
      16 So I tell you, live the way the Spirit leads you. Then you will not do the evil things your sinful self wants. 17 The sinful self wants what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit wants what is against the sinful self. They are always fighting against each other, so that you don’t do what you really want to do. 18 But if you let the Spirit lead you, you are not under law.[e]
      19 The wrong things the sinful self does are clear: committing sexual sin, being morally bad, doing all kinds of shameful things, 20 worshiping false gods, taking part in witchcraft, hating people, causing trouble, being jealous, angry or selfish, causing people to argue and divide into separate groups, 21 being filled with envy, getting drunk, having wild parties, and doing other things like this. I warn you now as I warned you before: The people who do these things will not have a part in God’s kingdom. 22 But the fruit that the Spirit produces in a person’s life is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these kinds of things. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their sinful self. They have given up their old selfish feelings and the evil things they wanted to do. 25 We get our new life from the Spirit, so we should follow the Spirit. 26 We must not feel proud and boast about ourselves. We must not cause trouble for each other or be jealous of each other.

      • Gregg Powers on December 3, 2018 at 12:43 pm

        right, the people who DO these things will have no part in God’s kingdom.

        • Son on December 10, 2018 at 11:29 pm

          Thank God YOU are not The Judge, Gregg. “Let him without sin cast the first stone.”

    • fessdo on December 3, 2018 at 12:34 pm

      Galatians 6 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
      Help Each Other
      6 Brothers and sisters, someone in your group might do something wrong. You who are following the Spirit should go to the one who is sinning. Help make that person right again, and do it in a gentle way. But be careful, because you might be tempted to sin too. 2 Help each other with your troubles. When you do this, you are obeying the law of Christ. 3 If you think you are too important to do this, you are only fooling yourself. 4 Don’t compare yourself with others. Just look at your own work to see if you have done anything to be proud of. 5 You must each accept the responsibilities that are yours.
      6 Whoever is being taught God’s word should share the good things they have with the one who is teaching them.
      7 If you think you can fool God, you are only fooling yourselves. You will harvest what you plant. 8 If you live to satisfy your sinful self, the harvest you will get from that will be eternal death. But if you live to please the Spirit, your harvest from the Spirit will be eternal life. 9 We must not get tired of doing good. We will receive our harvest of eternal life at the right time. We must not give up. 10 When we have the opportunity to do good to anyone, we should do it. But we should give special attention to those who are in the family of believers.
      Paul Ends His Letter
      11 This is my own handwriting. You can see how big the letters are. 12 Those men who are trying to force you to be circumcised are only doing it so that their people will accept them. They are afraid they will be persecuted if they follow only the cross[a] of Christ. 13 They are circumcised, but they don’t obey the law themselves. They want you to be circumcised so that they can boast about what they did to you.
      14 I hope I will never boast about things like that. The cross of our Lord Jesus Christ is my only reason for boasting. Through Jesus’ death on the cross the world is dead[b] to me, and I am dead to the world. 15 It doesn’t matter if anyone is circumcised or not. The only thing that matters is this new life we have from God.[c] 16 Peace and mercy to those who follow this rule—to all God’s people.[d]
      17 So don’t give me any more trouble. I have scars on my body that show[e] I belong to Jesus.
      18 My brothers and sisters, I pray that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ will be with your spirits. Amen.

      • Gregg Powers on December 3, 2018 at 12:44 pm

        right, if you live to satisfy yourself sinful self, the harvest you get from that will be eternal death

      • fessdo on December 3, 2018 at 1:06 pm

        IF anyone can read these three chapters of Galatians and still think doing works will justify them before God, has to be extremely full of pride or have the strongest religious eye glasses ever made.

        • Son on December 3, 2018 at 1:23 pm

          LOL! “strongest religious eye glasses ever made” I love your sense of humor, my old friend. Now, there’s an idea: religious eye glasses. Hey, people bought pet rocks, remember? And mood rings. lol

          • Son on December 4, 2018 at 9:06 pm

            So, it seems to me that the “brothers” on this site don’t have any interest in sharing true fellowship in The Spirit of our Lord Jesus. There is nothing positive here, just the same tinkling of a cymbal that I heard in church. You guys just want to prove yourselves right: faith vs. works. OK, have fun. I’m outta here. No better or more fulfilling than the churches I attended. Keep arguing over nothing of any real substance. I’m sure, eventually, one of you will come up with the definitive answer to the mystery of our existence.
            Later, bros.

            Dave



          • Stu on December 4, 2018 at 10:21 pm

            Dave.

            You shared, “There is nothing positive here, just the same tinkling of a cymbal that I heard in church. You guys just want to prove yourselves right.”

            Not everyone feels that way exclusively, friend, and I see the “friends-of-Job” complex here. Everyone has a mask. We all wear them, and to the extent that we do, “we can neither give love nor receive it; only the mask gets the credit.” Jesus wants us to be overcomers. You offered love, and many chose not to receive it. It does not mean we are to throw it way. Many here are willing to listen and learn, but those who “know so much more than I do,” will only listen to themselves and seldom acknowledge it. But that is okay too. I don’t judge them for my perception of them because the log in my own eye is larger than I want to admit. It is incumbent upon me to recognize that log, and not to compare myself with others, shouting, “Your log is bigger than mine.” Don’t be offended Dave. Remember the Scripture, “The more knowledge the more grief.” It is what Paul had to be careful of because he knew why God gave him a thorn in the flesh—“to keep me from being conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations.” The more knowledge the more grief. It is what all of us who study the Scriptures must be careful of.

            Hang in there. God will deal with each of us in his mercy. The mercy for some may be discipline. It is not for me to decide. 🙂



          • fessdo on December 4, 2018 at 11:37 pm

            “Keep arguing over nothing of any real substance”,,,
            A lot of people get upset when you talk about Jesus and what he did to save people. They even get to the place where they belittle what Jesus went thru, to the point that they too will say “Jesus is nothing of any real substance”, but when you get born again by receiving Jesus as you Lord you then realize something is more important than you or your feelings. As a matter of fact your old man is now dead and a dead man can’t be insulted, or hurt, or worried, or frustrated, or in need of a little hug because people didn’t give him a warm fussy feeling inside.
            The answer is finding Jesus then finding out everything the he did for you because Jesus is really “the real substance”.



          • Son on December 5, 2018 at 11:09 am

            @fessdo
            1 Corinthians 13:13
            “And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”
            1 Corinthians 13:2
            “And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.”
            fessdo, this is PRECISELY why people leave church. There are lots of people there who wish to prove they are superior in knowledge of the scripture and in God’s wisdom, but do not have the Love, or Charity, or Jesus/God in their heart. Like I said earlier, you and Gregg can argue ’til your blue in the face about which one of you is correct in your interpretation of the scriptures, but it seems to me to be all about pride with you guys. I’ve been here for real fellowship, not to argue over the highest seat at the feast. Why don’t you try writing something with real substance, show your humanity, tell me how you came to be a follower of Jesus. I shared that with you.



          • Son on December 5, 2018 at 11:38 am

            @Stu
            Thanks, my true brother, for your wise counsel. If there were more people at church with your compassion and REAL Christian love, there would be a lot more people like me attending church. You gave me something of real SUBSTANCE in your reply to my comment, gave me wisdom that God wanted me to have, so He showed it to you and you showed it to me. The kind of relationship that you and I have is the hope, the reason I participate on this forum. You showed me God’s Love/Charity with your comment, and you were so right on about removing the plank and Paul’s thorn, for examples. Again, you have proven to be a true brother in Christ to me and given me hope that I am not wasting my time here, that we, as the body of Christ, can grow in Him by helping, instructing, exhorting one another and learning how to walk in His Spirit. Hebrews 3:13 “But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.”
            Thanks, dear brother Stu, for sharing in His Spirit with me with your thoughtful, blessed, holy insights. THAT is what I consider true fellowship in Jesus, not frivolous arguments over who’s interpretation of the Bible is correct.
            2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”
            1 Corinthians 8:2 “And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.” None of us, fessdo and Gregg, are right. We need to conform our acts according to the Love/Charity of God that He has put into our hearts through the infilling of His Holy Spirit. Do that and your works will justify your faith. I truly believe this. Jesus has revealed it to me. You can argue the law, mimicking the Pharisees, but it will avail you nothing in the end. As The Doobie Brothers sang: “Without love, where would we be now.”
            Do you think God loves you more than He loves me? Do you think He loves me more than He loves you? So, we are equal in God’s eyes. Try to remember this the next time you think you can remove the splinter from another’s eye.
            His Peace, Blessing, Grace and Abundant Life in His Holy Spirit be upon all of you, my brethren in The Lord!

            In Him,

            Dave



          • Gregg Powers on December 5, 2018 at 12:19 pm

            Incorrect; our arguing is not about being right. Why should I care? I care because people are being lost because they think they can live in sin after accepting Jesus Christ. Many are going to hear “Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what I say” It is the most fundamental error of the Modern Church that once one has accepted Jesus Christ, they can live anyway they want. I believe that God has led many to dispel such doctrinal error.



          • Gregg Powers on December 5, 2018 at 12:29 pm

            I think i have made my point, so there is no need to continue.

            I pray that all who claim Christ are committed to LISTEN to the Holy Spirit and to hate sin as much as He does. God Bless……



          • fessdo on December 5, 2018 at 12:43 pm

            “so there is no need to continue”,,,
            Yeah yeah Gregg we’ve heard that from you before but you’re just to prideful to not continue trying to prove you’re right.



          • Son on December 5, 2018 at 12:50 pm

            Gregg,
            You are still on a crusade. Where’s the Charity, The Love Jesus showed to us? God can save those whom He wants to save. He doesn’t need you to bang on the drum of righteousness. How many people do you discourage with your “Be Holy or go to Hell” posturing? You made me wonder if I was, perhaps, walking off a cliff with the way I live my life. Jesus has assured me that I am not. He loves me. He told me He would save me. I believe Him. To me, that’s it. Jesus doesn’t lie. So, I recommend you think about getting off the soapbox of self-righteousness and start showing a little compassion to your brethren, such as me, for example, who would rather hear the inspiring, encouraging aspects of your life in The Lord rather than listen to you play Southern Baptist preacher threatening fire and brimstone to those who perhaps don’t live up to your own personal standards. Like our brother Stu has pointed out, “show a measure of love, and that will be counted above them all.” 1 Peter 4:8 “And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.” Hey, you’re the scripture man, Gregg.

            With all due respect (and His love),

            Your bro Dave



          • fessdo on December 5, 2018 at 1:01 pm

            Fickle fickle, Dave you and Stu need a church where it’s all about you not about Jesus. That’s the problem with the churches today everybody wants to FEEL good and if Jesus gets all the attention then their little feelings get hurt. If someone says something in the wrong tone they get their little feelings hurt, grab their bible and leave forever. Let’s see what Jesus did when He walked the earth,,,
            Matthew 8:21-23 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)21 Another of Jesus’ followers said to him, “Lord, I will follow you too, but let me go and bury my father first.”
            22 But Jesus said to him, “Follow me, and let those who are dead bury dead.”
            If Jesus said that to most people today they would say,,[Jesus you’re no better or more fulfilling than the churches I attended so I’m out of here]



        • Gregg Powers on December 3, 2018 at 1:27 pm

          So you believe chapters 1-3 but not 5-6. This was the point i made all along. You believe part of scripture friend, but not ALL of scripture. Faith and works go hand in hand. They are part of the same belief system. It is not possible to truly (yes TRULY) believe in something and live opposed to what you claim to believe.

          • Son on December 5, 2018 at 1:57 pm

            fessdo, evidently you’re a tough love kind of guy. If I’m gonna sit around for a coupla hours listening to some guy who puts his pants on one leg at a time tell me about God, I at least want to be with people I like and, hopefully, love in the same manner as Jesus loves me. That may mean a hug, an unspoken feeling of comfortability and compatibility, a sincere handshake, whatever-have-you. I want a bond with my fellow followers of Christ. I don’t want to be preached to and commanded around and criticized for how I live by some Pharisee who thinks his you-know-what doesn’t stink. How Jesus could forgive those guys back then for what they did to Him I’ll never understand, much less be able to emulate. I obey Him when He tells me to do something (or not to do something). So, please don’t assume I would be offended or insulted if He told me to leave it to somebody else to do something I wanted to do and follow Him. I’d follow Him in a heartbeat. Let me be clear about what I believe, old pal – JESUS IS MY LIFE. I HAVE NO LIFE WITHOUT HIM. He loves me and I strive to love you as He commands me, as much as lieth within me. But tell me truthfully, fessdo old buddy, doesn’t it make you feel better when I’m kindly to you and not trying to be such a tough guy? That’s only human, and we’re all human. (Well, some people on this wicked old world may not be human – guys like Hitler, Stalin, hit men and bank robbers). Like I said, I wouldn’t have done very well if a bunch of strangers tried to crucify me. Give me friends, real friends, who worship Jesus, truly worship Him, and I will be most grateful as I wait for Him to return for me (and you). Maranatha, Lord Jesus, come soon, Lord, come now, if that is your Will, Jesus. I’m waiting for you.

            I may not agree with your methods, brother fessdo, but I do appreciate your motivation. Thanks for your counsel. God’s Blessings to you.

            Dave



          • Son on December 5, 2018 at 2:21 pm

            fessdo, The Lord put this into my head and told me to share it with you. How you receive this is between you and God, I’m not telling you how to behave. I do, however, personally believe that Jesus is pleased when we show one another a little kindness, compassion and care about them.
            Matthew 25:40 “And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”
            Matthew 7:2 “For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”

            Just a thought, brother.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 5, 2018 at 3:43 pm

            Dave,
            Galatians 4:16 King James Version (KJV)
            16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

            Are you the same guy who sent me this when we were great pals?
            Mantra 1 :Never expect anything from anybody.
            Mantra 2: Don’t take anything personally.
            Mantra 3. Don’t assume anything
            Mantra 4. Don’t get an attitude
            Mantrao 5. Don’t judge anyone



          • Son on December 6, 2018 at 2:53 pm

            @brother Gregg,
            fessdo pointed something out to me that I had not considered, as it is written in Matthew 19:25-26 “When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
            But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”
            Brother Gregg, if I have to be perfect and sinless to enter His Kingdom, I am lost.
            But for the Holy Blood that Jesus shed to cover my sins from the sight of God, I am hopeless.
            I have to agree with fessdo that we are completely dependent upon the Grace of God and nothing else if we are to have any hope of salvation.
            Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
            I DO agree with you, Gregg, that a person cannot ignore God’s commandments and disregard the instructions of Jesus without deleterious consequences, as we are instructed in several passages in 2 Peter:
            2 Peter 5-9 “And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
            And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
            And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
            For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
            But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
            2 Peter 20 “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.”
            But again, Jesus is faithful to keep His Flock on the straight and narrow path and with Him, all things are possible for His Children. My faith is in Jesus, not in myself.

            The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen.

            Dave



        • Peter on December 22, 2018 at 5:00 am

          Being under Grace does not mean that you can sin at will and then still be saved simply because you believe in Who Jesus is and what He did for you on the cross. The word translated as “believe” means to comply with, to abide in, to OBEY Jesus and all His commandments. If you think that you can continue to live without a radical change, without repenting of your past ways and your past views, if you think that you can continue to party, to live sexual immoral lives, to live in a state of adultory by being married to a devorcee, watching porn, running around in public in a bikini, going to strip clubs, getting drunk, cussing, being greedy, etc etc etc. If you think it is OK to do these things without repenting and without falling to your knees and asking God for forgiveness and without trying your utmost best to not again fall short of His standards, then you are blind and deceived. We are not called to fit in with the world. We are called out of the world.if you classify repenting as a work, then you are deceived and in great danger of not being saved. There is no such thing as once saved always saved. The Bible says that only those who ENDURE TO THE END will be saved. Don’t turn God’s Grace into something similar to universal salvation with the only difference being that you must believe that Jesus died on the cross for mankind and that He is God’s only begotten Son. Even the old enemy knows that. To believe in Jesus includes following His commandments. For those with ears let them hear.

          • fessdo on December 22, 2018 at 11:42 am

            Peter,
            “without trying YOUR utmost best”

            Definition of utmost
            1
            : the most possible : the extreme limit : the highest attainable point or degree
            the utmost in reliability
            2
            : the highest, greatest, or best of one’s abilities, powers, and resources

            But what if Fessdo’s utmost best is a six and Peter’s utmost best is an eight, would either of us make it in Gods kingdom without Jesus?
            Jesus isn’t come back and getting on the cross again to take care of any new sins is He?



          • Son on December 22, 2018 at 4:17 pm

            2 Peter 2:20-22
            For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”
            2 Peter 2:9
            “The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.”
            Romans 10:13
            “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
            James 2:14-26
            “What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
            If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”

            I believe we should strive, “as much as lieth within us”, to please our Lord and Savior Jesus by our decisions and our actions. I believe that if we deliberately, intentionally, habitually ignore what Jesus told us about how He wants us to think and act, we fall away from Him and pretty soon forget about him entirely after the manner described in 2 Peter 2:20-22 (see scriptural quotation at the top of this message). I believe that we shall sin because God told us that every human being has sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God and that we are redeemed through the spilled blood of Jesus, not by obeying the law without fail and flawlessly. I believe that God disturbs your peace and by doing so gives you a warning that you are falling away from Him when you ignore what Jesus told us about how we should think, act and live.
            Like Porky Pig says, “And, tha, tha, tha, uh, THAT’S ALL FOLKS!
            Believe in Jesus, count on Him to deliver you and trust Him for your salvation, brethren.

            With His Love,

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 22, 2018 at 5:14 pm

            Aman brother Dave,,, but you’re beating a dead horse when you try to talk to a prideful WORKS person. The minute a WORKS person here’s the “G’ word GRACE their “must be in control mind” automatically goes into thinking that a person living under grace is committing sin after sin after sin after sin after sin after sin after sin after ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.
            It just can’t be all Jesus with them, they won’t allow a light burden or an easy yoke in their life.



          • Son on December 22, 2018 at 10:16 pm

            I hear you, brother fessdo. However, in all good conscience, I agree with those who admonish about falling back into the ways of the world, or “backsliding”, as a lot of Christians would term it. We need to be mindful to strive toward pleasing, obeying and serving Jesus, “as much as lieth within us”, in the way that we live our lives here on this worldly plane, as we wait for our Lord, Savior and Master to bring us home. That is my true belief, what He has and is showing me.

            With His love, always, love you brother fessdo. His Peace and Blessing be upon you in abundance!

            Your bro always,

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 22, 2018 at 10:46 pm

            Dave,
            What you believe you’ll have.
            Matthew 8:13
            13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee.



          • Son on December 23, 2018 at 10:38 am

            fessdo, your quote from Matthew about the centurion is spot on. Thank you for sharing your insight and thank you Jesus for giving my brother that insight to share with me.

            His Peace and Blessing be upon you in abundance, my brother.

            Dave



      • fessdo on December 3, 2018 at 2:07 pm

        Galatians Chapter 1 and 2 was not even commented on. The three chapters I was referring to was Galatians Chapter 3, 4, and 5. Need to clean those eyeglasses or better yet read the entire chapters, start to finish and every word in between, before going off half cocked.

        • Son on December 5, 2018 at 7:28 pm

          Nah, we’re still pals in my book, fessdo, my ole’ buddy! : ) I don’t consider you an enemy in any way, shape or form. You ain’t heavy, you’re my brother. But, maybe God wants ME to give YOU a few tips on what He may want from/for you, in terms of relating to other people’s needs, emotions, vulnerabilities, weaknesses, etc., etc.
          Sometimes a hug and a prayer can solve a lot of issues for a human being, without beating them over the head with a Bible, all’s I’m sayin’. Certainly no offense to you intended on my part and, hopefully, none taken on yours. No worries, here, my dear bro. We still both agree that God’s Will is done. Night has fallen, Lewis. ; )

          We’re still great pals, as far as I’m concerned…I respect your opinion, even if/when it differs from my own. You know the biggest insult one can give someone? Tell them, “Sure, I know, you’re never wrong, you know everything and if you are mistaken, well, that doesn’t count.”
          I sure don’t want or plan to fit that description. There is still plenty that I need to learn, for shore, bro. I’m far, far from perfect.

          Stay blessed and talk with you soon, my friend and brother!

          Dave

          • fessdo on December 5, 2018 at 9:15 pm

            Dave,
            You’re on target on the emotions bit, I’ve seen so many phony emotions from people in the last 60 plus years that I really don’t rely on any type of feeling. One day people praise and love God and the next day they are cussing Him. People will say I really felt God today at church didn’t you, and when I reply no they look at me as if I’m the devil himself for telling the truth.
            I don’t have to feel God cause I walk by faith not by sight, so if Jesus said it I believe it and that settles it. With people being so wishy washy these days I just don’t pay much attention to what a person says.
            For years I tried to be good and was never able to make it, oh I heard people tell about how good they was and that I should be good too in order to get to heaven. Then one day it hit me when I reading the word,, Mark 10:18 King James Version (KJV) 18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
            There it was I was trying to be someone that no one could be GOOD.
            I response to God was like the disciples did in Matthew 19:25 King James Version (KJV) [When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?]
            I felt I had wasted 40 years trying to be good for nothing, but I went on to read Matthew 19:26 [But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.]
            And there it was with God/ Jesus it is possible. So from then till now when I read the word I’m looking for the love, mercy, and grace of my Lord Jesus, the goodness so to speak. It’s nice to have people love you but it’s much better to have Jesus love you cause his love is the same yesterday, today, and forever. With Jesus you know where you stand but with even the best human that has ever lived on this earth it’s still a crap shoot as to if they really mean what they say to you.
            For what it’s worth Dave you’re on the right track, you’re not trying to be perfect but you’re resting in the perfect one,,, Jesus.



          • Son on December 6, 2018 at 10:59 am

            Amen to everything you said, bro, AMEN!
            Thanks for sharing.

            Your bro in Jesus,

            Dave



          • Son on December 6, 2018 at 11:03 am

            fessdo –
            Proverbs 27:17
            ; )



    • Son on December 3, 2018 at 12:44 pm

      Please allow me to tell you, brethren, of how Jesus revealed Himself to me, all praise, blessing, honor, glory and power unto Him, the Holy Lamb of God.
      I was in a fraternity house in Tulsa, Oklahoma. One fellow continually bugged me about turning over my life to Jesus. However, although I found it somewhat annoying, I got along well with him and we were friends. One night, this fellow named Joe was sitting in a room in the fraternity house with 5 or 6 other guys, all of whom were believers in Jesus. I walked into the room, we chatted about trivial affairs such as baseball scores, and then, out of a clear blue sky, Joe says to me, “David, why don’t you ask Jesus to come into your life tonight, right now?” I thought about it, the replied, “OK. I’ll ask Him.” So I said into the open air, “Jesus, come into my life if you’re real.” Nothing happened. Joe asked me if anything was different. I told him, “No.” Joe and the other fellows then laid hands on me and prayed, some in English and some in the language of “tongues”. Joe said, “Ask Him again.” So, I said into the open air, “Jesus, if you’re real, come into my life.” Nothing happened. Joe asked me if anything had changed and I replied to him, “No.” Again, the brothers laid hands on me and prayed, as before. Suddenly, I remembered a class I had taken in college, wherein I was introduced to John Calvin’s theory of “The Elect”. Calvin, basically, maintained that since God is omnipotent, His Will is done. Human beings have no free will, although they imagine that they do, since we FEEL LIKE we make a choice, but since God is omniscient, as well as omnipotent, He already knows what choice we shall make. Thus, Calvin proposed that “The Elect” are chosen by God before they even exist and are known to God. If you’re not on God’s “List of The Elect”, you are going to Hell. That thought freaked me out. To spend ALL OF ETERNITY IN HELL? ME? I become frightened so deeply I cannot describe my fear and panic. MAYBE I JUST WASN’T ON THE LIST! I dropped to my knees, feeling like a fool in front on those other guys. I mean, I was a “cool guy”. I didn’t bow and cow-tow to some invisible pie-in-the-sky something. But at that point, I didn’t care. From the very essence of my being, from the tiniest cell in my body, I IMPLORED, BEGGED, BESEACHED Jesus to help me believe in Him. Then, similar to The Holy Spirit of God in the form of a dove descending upon Jesus when He was baptized, The Holy Spirit of Jesus came into me. It was like a warm glow, powerful, awesome and filled with bliss and ecstasy. I knew right away it was Jesus. Before I could say a word to let the others with me know what I had experienced, they were shouting, arms uplifted, “Thank you, Jesus, thank you, Lord, for saving our brother!” They knew He was in the room with us before I had the chance to tell them. And, He has been with me ever since, for 48 years. He’s never deserted me, never forsaken me. Jesus IS The Lord. I said it for the first time 48 years ago, and nothing has changed. HOSANNAH IN THE HIGHEST UNTO YOU, LORD JESUS, OUR LORD, SAVIOR AND VERY BEST FRIEND!
      Amen.

      Thanks, my brethren, for allowing me to share this with you.

  13. Salvation on November 30, 2018 at 1:21 pm

    13k shares…I sure hope your condemnation isn’t misguided…That is a lot of lives to be responsible for.

    • Maggie on December 1, 2018 at 2:43 am

      What about being cast out of a church for speaking out against the corruption within? I don’t exactly have a choice, do I? Can’t just hang in there and ‘work it out,’ can I? Are you suggesting I bury my head in the sand and pretend abuse and inequity doesn’t exist? Because that’s also what leadership wants me to do (= their definition of ‘grace’). It’s absolutely absurd & irresponsible not to address problematic people who use the church’s covering to commit atrocities. But no one wants to call it what it is because there is more ‘grace’ than common sense.
      Unless I ‘submit’ and also turn a blind eye, I am no longer allowed to serve in a leadership capacity. Something I have been dedicated to and very much enjoyed for many years & it breaks my heart. Seems I’m very much disposable and easily forgotten. Had I known, I could have just stayed in the secular world. At least I know what to expect & it sure would hurt a lot less.

      Granted, I do think leadership would tolerate me if I’d just attend services from now on; keep my mouth shut, tithe, bake the pastor an occasional apple pie, and promptly depart after the ‘feel-good message’.

      Yeah, no thanks, I’ll sleep in.

      • fessdo on December 1, 2018 at 9:44 am

        Maggie,
        The answer is in your last paragraph, that’s what Jesus would do. When I hear the verse that says “why do you call me Lord Lord and do not what I say” I like to put what Jesus actually said. So in your case He’s saying “why do you call me Lord Lord and do not stop judging others”. You are NOT other people’s Holy Ghost, nor is it your place to judge what others do or have done. Let God deal with those people and you deal with you. People get into these little sins / big sins deal, but it doesn’t mater the size of the sin. Sinning is breaking God’s law, so let’s say you have a giant picture window and we’ll call it the law, now it doesn’t matter if you shot a BB thru it or drive a Mack truck thru it it’s still broke, others may sin more than you but if you’ve ever sinned your in the same sinking boat with them. It’s Jesus that you should be focused on not what others are doing. You should be showing others the Jesus in you, how would others ever know that Jesus was in you if you never showed any mercy or grace or forgiveness toward them. If you go in beating the people over the head with the bible’s “thou shall not’s” then your being no different than most busybody church people. But if you do the works that Jesus did, blessing those that use you and forgiving the unforgiveable, then people will say ” you know theirs’s something different about Maggie than other church goers”. So put on a smile, bake a few pies, and show people what Jesus would be doing in your shoes.

        • Son on December 1, 2018 at 1:10 pm

          Great concept, fessdo. However, people are human and Maggie’s reaction is understandable, at least by me.
          Maggie, read your Bible, pray and commune with Jesus, don’t count on people to give you what you need spiritually and trust that Jesus already has a plan to bless you and take you to Heaven to live with Him forever. If you feel the need for more fellowship, pray to The Lord to find it for you and give it a try, if you are comfortable with it. Take it slow. I don’t personally believe that church attendance is a necessity for being saved and going to Heaven. Didn’t Jesus tell the thief on the cross next to Him, “Verily, I say unto you that ye shall be with me in Paradise on this very day.”? What church did the thief attend? What works did the thief have to commend himself to the Mercy of Jesus? I had experiences similar to yours when I attended church. I share fellowship with fellow believers in the secular world now and I am greatly edified. It ain’t about a building. It’s the love and grace of our blessed, precious Lord Jesus in your heart that counts. Church is in your heart, beloved sister.

          • fessdo on December 1, 2018 at 2:05 pm

            Mr. Son,
            Maggie’s reaction is understandable if she hasn’t died to self, that is decreased in order for Jesus to increase. It’s only thru Him that you won’t have that type of reaction. It is so true when you say “It’s the love and grace of our blessed, precious Lord Jesus in your heart that counts,” but out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so if you have more of Jesus than self then you show kindness toward people in order for them to see the kindness of Jesus.



          • Son on December 1, 2018 at 4:26 pm

            fessdo,, it’s Dave. I got blocked on my old identity. ????
            5 mantras The Lord told me to share with you guys.
            These arose out of working to obey Romans 12:18
            ” If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.”
            Mantra 1 :Never expect anything from anybody.
            Mantra 2: Don’t take anything personally.
            Mantra 3. Don’t assume anything
            Mantra 4. Don’t get an attitude
            Mantrao 5. Don’t judge anyone

            Maybe this is helpful to some. I hope so. These mantras have DEF. helped me!

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 1, 2018 at 4:40 pm

            Dave,
            That sounds like great advice for everyone of us trying to be a better person. Thanks



          • Son on December 1, 2018 at 6:06 pm

            My flesh fights with me every day. I am TOTALLY DEPENDENT UPON JESUS for my life and everything that the word “life” entails. As the Bestles sang, “Nothing you can do that can’t be done.” The Power is in JESUS. Don’t let The Discourager get you down, beloved brothers and sisters.
            Phillipians 4:8
            “In conclusion, my friends, fill your minds with those things that are good and that deserve praise: things that are true, noble, right, pure, lovely, and honorable. ”

            With His love.

            Dave



          • Son on December 1, 2018 at 9:13 pm

            So, if Jesus promised the thief on the cross next to him that he would “be with him (me) in Paradise on that very day, without any commending works from the thief, who obviously did not attend church, it tells me that we neither need to attend church or have good works to be elected to a place in Heaven. Our election to salsvation is strictly according to The Perfect Will of God/Jesus, one and the same. Night has fallen, Lewis, and there’s nothing we can do about it. God’ Will is supreme. It WILL be done.

            Humble and grateful to our Lord, the Holy Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, God’s Holy Word made flesh.

            With His Love for you, my brethren.

            Dave



          • Gregg Powers on December 1, 2018 at 9:52 pm

            Dave, is it possible you have gleaned the wrong message from the thief on the cross? The thief on the cross did everything possible to be faithful. We are to be faithful as well. But we must be careful not to read into scripture one way or the other. We know nothing about the thief on the cross. Perhaps he was already a disciple, perhaps not. He did indicate on the cross that he knew something about Jesus. In any event i urge caution in your conclusion as the logic you use does not necessarily hold. We see many in this day who claim faith in Jesus, spend all their time defending how they can sin as much as they want and refuse to follow the Holy Spirit and His leading. I remind us of the passage in John 15:1-6 ““I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.” It is a natural outcome of a true and saving faith to both obey and produce good works in the Holy Spirit…..



          • fessdo on December 1, 2018 at 10:57 pm

            Dave,
            If justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. (Gal. 2:21)
            For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” … Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. (Gal. 3:10, 13)
            Historically, Protestants have believed that the Bible teaches that our salvation depends on what Christ has accomplished for our pardon and our perfection. We accept by faith his substitution for us in two senses: in his final suffering and death, he was condemned and cursed so that we may be pardoned (see Gal. 3:13; Rom. 8:3); and in his whole life of righteousness culminating in his death, he learned obedience so that we may be saved (see Heb. 5:8-9). His death crowns his atoning sufferings that propitiate God’s wrath against us (see Rom. 3:24-25; 5:6-9), but it also crowns his life of perfect righteousness—God’s righteousness —that is then imputed to us who believe (see 2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 3:21-22; 4:6, 11; 5:18-19).
            God provided in Christ what God demanded from us in the law. But today this good news that Christ is not only our pardon but also our perfection is under serious attack. Here I hope to show not only that the doctrine of the imputation of Christ’s righteousness is biblical but why we should defend it.
            Three times in Galatians 2:16, Paul tells us that no one can be justified —no one can be made right with God—by “works of the law.” In context, this phrase refers most naturally to deeds done to obey Moses’ law. (Note the parallels between “the Book of the Law” and “works of the law” in Gal. 3:10, and between “the law” in Rom. 3:19, 20 and “works of the law” in Rom. 3:20. In both Gal. 3:10 and Rom. 3:19-20, the term “law” refers to the Mosaic law; so the phrase “works of the law” naturally picks up that meaning.)
            In its narrow, short-term design, the law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses demanded perfect obedience of the Pentateuch’s more than 600 commandments in order for the Israelites to receive eternal life (see Lev. 18:5; Deut. 32:45-47; Rom. 10:5; Gal. 3:10, 12). In this way, it upheld an absolute standard of childlike, humble, God-reliant, God-exalting perfect obedience that is in fact due from all of us—and thus provided the moral backdrop without which the Pentateuch’s sin-atoning provisions (and ultimately Christ’s sacrifice) would be unintelligible.
            Yet the Israelites were uniformly sinful and hostile to God (see Exod. 33:1-3; Acts 7:51). They did not—and indeed could not (see Rom. 8:7) —submit to him. Consequently, the law’s effect on sinful Israel, when she was confronted with its hundreds of commandments, was awareness of latent sin (see Rom. 7:7), increased sin through deliberate violation of God’s holy, righteous, and good commandment (see Rom. 7:12-13), and the multiplication of transgressions (see Rom. 5:20; 4:15). All of this was part of God’s design for the law: “[The law] was added for the sake of transgressions” (Gal. 3:19); “The law came in so that the transgression would increase” (Rom. 5:20). The law cannot give life (see Gal. 3:21); rather it kills by multiplying sin (see Rom. 7:5, 8-13).
            The law’s deadly design and effects are sufficient to warrant Paul’s statement in Galatians 3:12—”The law is not of faith”— especially in view of what he says eleven verses later: “Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law . . . . But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian” (vv. 23, 25). This does not mean that there was no faith before Christ (see Rom. 4) but, rather, that there was no faith explicitly in Christ before Christ came. The law’s function, in the long view, is to prepare God’s people for Christ’s work, even as its short-term function is to imprison its recipients in sin (see Gal. 3:22-23). The narrow, short-term aim of the law is to kill those who come in contact with it because it is primarily “commandments” (see Rom. 13:8-9; Eph. 2:15) that require perfect obedience but that cannot themselves produce this obedience independently of the Spirit who “gives life” (2 Cor. 3:6).
            What God Requires, Christ Provides, justification cannot come through the law (see Gal. 2:21; Acts 13:38-39). Each of us-every single human being (see Rom. 3:10-12, 19-20)-has failed to do what God’s law requires of us (Gal. 3:10; 6:13; cf. James 2:10). But to understand what God requires, we must see what Christ provides. In his mercy, God has provided his Son as a twofold substitute for us. Both facets of Christ’s substitution are crucial for our becoming right with God. These facets are grounded in the twin facts that (1) we have failed to keep God’s law perfectly, and so we should die; but (2) Jesus did not fail—he alone has kept God’s law perfectly (see Heb. 4:15) —and so he should not have died.
            Yet in his mercy God has provided in Christ a great substitution—a “blessed exchange”—according to which Jesus can stand in for us with God, offering his perfect righteousness in place of our failure and his own life’s blood in place of ours. When we receive the mercy God offers us in Christ by faith (see Acts 16:31; 1 Tim. 1:15-16; 1 Pet. 1:8-9), his perfection is imputed—or credited or reckoned—to us and our sinful failure is imputed—or credited or reckoned—to him. And thus Jesus’ undeserved death pays for our sin (see Mark 10:45; 1 Tim. 2:5-6; Rev. 5:9); and God’s demand for us to be perfectly righteous is satisfied by the imputation or crediting of Christ’s perfect righteousness to us. “If justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose” (Gal. 2:21). But “God has done what the law … could not do” (Rom. 8:3).
            2 Corinthians 5:21 is one of Scripture’s most powerful affirmations of the imputation of Christ’s righteousness to the account of those who believe in him: “For our sake [God] made [Christ] to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” There is a great deal that can be said about this verse but, when all is said and done, perhaps Charles Hodge has summed up its import best:
            There is probably no passage in the Scriptures in which the doctrine of justification is more concisely or clearly stated than [this]. Our sins were imputed to Christ, and his righteousness is imputed to us. He bore our sins; we are clothed in his righteousness… Christ bearing our sins did not make him morally a sinner… nor does Christ’s righteousness become subjectively ours, it is not the moral quality of our souls… Our sins were the judicial ground of the sufferings of Christ, so that they were a satisfaction of justice; and his righteousness is the judicial ground of our acceptance with God.
            All of this then means, as Hodge goes on to say, that “our pardon is an act of justice”—an act based on Jesus having borne our sins (see 1 Pet. 2:24)—and yet it “is not mere pardon, but justification alone”—that is, our forevermore standing as righteous before God because we are clothed with Christ’s perfection—”that gives us peace with God.”



  14. shelly on November 26, 2018 at 5:29 pm

    I messed up i cheated on my wife she told me she is moving on please cast return wife spell post reply on forum 2017
    My best friend cheats with my boyfriend and now are in a relationship. needs a spit them off spell cast. comments 2017

    • Chase on November 26, 2018 at 5:56 pm

      I say this editor is a false man of God. he uses a false translation of God’s Word. NLT?? Garbage

      • fessdo on November 26, 2018 at 10:48 pm

        Chase,
        Lets compare here:
        John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
        16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

        John 3:16 New Living Translation (NLT)
        16 “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

        Oh my what a GREAT catastrophe here, using the NLT will probable cause the world to be destroyed, oh wait it’s going to be destroyed anyway.

    • Son on November 29, 2018 at 10:11 pm

      My comments are being bloscked..

      David Bressler

      • Son on November 30, 2018 at 1:06 pm

        Not anymore. Must have been a technical glitch.

        • Son on November 30, 2018 at 1:09 pm

          Nope. David Bressler is still blocked. Why?

    • Son on December 1, 2018 at 11:11 pm

      Those who truly know and love Jesus will try to please Him and live by His Word as much as possible, dear brother Gregg. I don’t know anyone, have net met ANYONE, who will deliberately, consciously sin as an affront to our Lord God Jesus if they can they admit that “Jesus IS The Lord.”. We are human nd fallible and sometimes we trespass against His Word., in spite of our best intentions. Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak””We cannot resist temptation on our own as mortal men. Only Jesus can give us power to overcome sin. You seem to stress WILLPOWER as a means to accomplish good works, or at least, in all of your writings that I have read: I have gained that interpretation of your mindset. You have evidently not realized that free will is an illusion. We THINK we act on our own decisions. But, Jesus/God (one and the same) already knows what we shall decide, even before we make a decision. God is omniscient, by definition. Therefore, He already knows our decisions, even before we make them. We have no free will. It is all decided beforehand by God. Thus, John Calvin proposed the theory of “The Elect”, to which concept I personally subscribe. You will not “earn” a place in Heaven through your efforts. Only by The Holy, Blessed Grace and Mercy of God does mankind exist, much less have the opportunity of receiving eternal life in God’s Kingdom. We should have been taken out forever after we disobeyed Him in Eden. But, for the sake of the righteous,holy, glorious Word of God, JESUS, we have been spared. Make no mistake, my dear brother: We exist, much less are saved, by God’s Grace. Count on that alone. Depend upon that. For, that is all we have. fessdo, I hope you are reading these words and feeling His Peace that passeth all understanding.

      God’s Peace and Blessing be upon you, my beloved brethren.

      Dave

      • Gregg Powers on December 2, 2018 at 1:08 pm

        Oh brother, the Christians community is FILLED with them. I know pastors who intentionally sin. People vote for candidates that embrace abortion, breaking the law, support for homosexual acts, etc. That is participating in the sins of others. There are those that are committed to living in the flesh. There are those who routinely get drunk. There are those that steal from the government by not paying taxes. Can you really before God say that you don’t

        I am not sure willpower is the right word. But we must read scripture. It can be our only authority. God has granted us the power to ignore the Holy Spirit. It is our choice completely as to whether to listen to the Holy Spirit. If God did not believe this why would He tell us not to grieve or extinguish Him? Per scripture the Holy Spirit is a Helper, a Counselor – NOT a controller. This is why Paul in Galatians 5:25 drew the distinction between living in the Holy Spirit (being indwelt) and walking with the Holy Spirit. It is also why in Romans 8:14 we are told the true sons of God are those led by the Holy Spirit. Those who are not following where the Holy Spirit leads are not being led by the Holy Spirit. If you look at all MY posts you will see that I acknowledge we are to walk with the Holy Spirit and I give Him credit. But make no mistake, the idea that fessdo has presented that we can reject the Holy Spirits leading by sinning as much as we want and remain saved is errant.

        • Son on December 2, 2018 at 3:50 pm

          Do YOU know what constitutes sinning, brother Gregg? Or, what constitutes living in the flesh? I pray to Jesus, I commune with Jesus, but sometimes my flesh is stronger than my spiritual resolve. To me, that’s why the scripture reads, “For all have sinned and fallen short of The Glory of God.” Because if we could obey every commandment perfectly and follow the law without exception, why would Jesus have had to suffer and die for us here on Earth? If I love God/Jesus, which I do, and I strive to love my brethren, such as you and fessdo, just as an example and “strive to be a peace as much as lieth within me”, as we are commanded by The Lord, I am at peace within my soul. I cherish that peace and am infinitely (inasmuch as I am capable) grateful to Jesus for allowing me to have that peace through His Holy Spirit that lives within me. The Lord has His own way of letting me know when I am acting out of spirit, in contradiction to His Word, His Commandments, His Holy Spirit and I find I tend to strive to regain His Blessed Peace within my soul when He admonishes me. I know Jesus, I love Jesus and I strive and desire to please Him, more than I strive and desire to please myself. I pray for your peace and contentment, my brother. It must be tough to be tormented by constantly thinking about how and where you may have fallen short. Not one of us is perfect. Sometimes, you just have to trust Jesus that He will save them who call upon His Name unto their salvation. Just for the record, though, perhaps you could suggest something more I can do to follow him more nearly and please Him more than I presently do. I am open to new ideas.

          Thanks for your feedback, dear brother Gregg.

          Have a blessed Sunday.

          Dave

          • Stu on December 2, 2018 at 4:14 pm

            I appreciate you Dave. Your comments are adorned with compassion and sprinkled with love. They do not have the rough edges of what you ought to do, should have done, or could have done differently. I imagine one day when we stand alone, we will all be wearing an “invisible tape recorder” around our necks and God will present us with the thousands of times we told others what they should have, would have and could have done differently. Then God will say to them, “What about all of the times I gave you instruction, and you did what you pleased anyway?” How will we answer Him? But you show a measure of love, and that will be counted above them all.



        • fessdo on December 2, 2018 at 6:48 pm

          Matthew 10:11 “When you enter a city or town, find some worthy person there and stay in his home until you leave. 12 When you enter that home, say, ‘Peace be with you.’ 13 If the people in that home welcome you, they are worthy of your peace. May they have the peace you wished for them. But if they don’t welcome you, they are not worthy of your peace. Take back the peace you wished for them. 14 And if the people in a home or a town refuse to welcome you or listen to you, then leave that place and shake the dust off your feet.[b] 15 I can assure you that on the judgment day it will be worse for that town than for the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

          Sorry just following the scripture,

          • Son on December 2, 2018 at 7:07 pm

            @Stu – thanks for the kind words, my brother. It is very uplifting to receive such an honor of a compliment from an esteemed brother in His Spirit. Yes, there is a lot of disagreement and contention on this site, but I hope to be able to add some peace and harmony that we might love one another and thereby please our Lord and Savior, to whom we are all equally indebted for His precious, priceless gift.
            fessdo, my old friend – ???? Where did that come from, about “shake off the dust”? I don’t think I’m understanding your point with that post.
            Have a blessed Sunday evening, brothers.

            Dave



          • Son on December 2, 2018 at 7:52 pm

            @Stu – you know, brother Stu, I was reflecting on your kind words and Jesus put a thought into my head, so I am going to share it with you and my brethren on this forum: 1 Corinthians 13:1 ““Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.”
            God bless you all, my brethren, with His Charity, Mercy and Grace.

            Dave



    • Son on December 1, 2018 at 11:25 pm

      Agreed, fessdo. “Deliverane”.

      Dave

      • Son on December 1, 2018 at 11:27 pm

        “Deliverance”. Night has fallen, Lewis, and there’s nothing we can do about it.”

    • Son on December 2, 2018 at 11:59 am

      Nicely laid out, fessdo. You obviously put a lot of thought and research into your presentation on December 1, 2018 at 10:57 pm. Thanks for sharing, brother!

      God’s Peace and Blessing be upon you in abundance.

      Your bro,

      Dave

    • Son on December 2, 2018 at 12:10 pm

      Gregg, you wrote “We see many in this day who claim faith in Jesus, spend all their time defending how they can sin as much as they want and refuse to follow the Holy Spirit and His leading.” Are you referring to the churchgoers who say, “Amen” and then leave church only to cheat a brother, speak badly of another, reject someone who may need a friendly word of encouragement and covet material wealth above all other things, then return to church the following Sunday to repeat the cycle, thinking they have satisfied God”s call to them to repent? That’s why I left two churches along the way in my search for true Christian fellowship IN HIS SPIRIT.
      Thanks for your exhortation, dear brother. I appreciate, aa I’m sure do others who read your comments, your knowledge and God-given wisdom that you are willing to share with your brethren.

      His blessing and grace be upon you mightily, brother Gregg!

      Your bro,

      Dave

  15. Gregg Powers on November 21, 2018 at 1:04 pm

    Be careful here as we discussed earlier. In Rev 2:5 Jesus specifically threatens them with removing their lamp stand symbolic of their inability to give true light. Why would you stay in a physical church the Lord has condemned? We are explicitly warned in scripture to separate from false teachers. Again, the church is the body of believers, not the four walls of any physical church. We are not talking about separating from the Body of Christ. But be warned. There are large numbers of false teachers operating under the umbrella of Christianity. God never said to tolerate imperfect individuals who are teaching errant doctrine for they can have an effect on our relationship with God and our salvation which should be of paramount importance to each of us. Consider the heart of David: I do not sit with men of falsehood, nor do I consort with hypocrites. I hate the assembly of evildoers, and I will not sit with the wicked. in Him

    • Jerry Sunthimer on November 22, 2018 at 1:17 am

      I thought this was a fairly new thing with me, until I stop and review my church life. I accepted Christ as my savior in VBS, been in a conservative bible believing church since the week after I was born. Started helping to lead worship in Highschool. Grace College, drafted, KSU Psychology, Grace Seminary. Oh, Yuck! Grew as a Youth Pastor, but outside sins took me down. Remarried, and was asked to go to Homer Alaska to help establish a Brethren Church. God used 7 of us to help start a church that went to 125 and had the unsaved at the time inviting there friends! Pastor preached, I led worship, I helped teach adult Sunday school, mt wife taught kids.

      • fessdo on November 22, 2018 at 8:55 am

        Jerry,
        My old buddy Gregg will Amen your comments that has seven “I”s to one Christ. 7 to 1 that’s about the going rate for churches today, although the mega churches top out at about 25 “I”s to 1 Jesus. I did, I does, I do, I,I,I,I,, , and only one Christ did.
        Sad,

        • Gregg Powers on November 22, 2018 at 12:54 pm

          Perhaps it would be at least useful to consider what David, the man after God’s own heart (according to God) wrote in Psalm 26. Care to count the “I”‘s here? The pattern repeats itself over and over in Psalms.
          Vindicate me, O Lord, for I have walked in my integrity,
          And I have trusted in the Lord without wavering.
          2 Examine me, O Lord, and try me;
          Test my mind and my heart.
          3 For Your lovingkindness is before my eyes,
          And I have walked in Your truth.
          4 I do not sit with deceitful men,
          Nor will I go with pretenders.
          5 I hate the assembly of evildoers,
          And I will not sit with the wicked.
          6 I shall wash my hands in innocence,
          And I will go about Your altar, O Lord,
          7 That I may proclaim with the voice of thanksgiving
          And declare all Your wonders.

          8 O Lord, I love the habitation of Your house
          And the place where Your glory dwells.
          9 Do not take my soul away along with sinners,
          Nor my life with men of bloodshed,
          10 In whose hands is a wicked scheme,
          And whose right hand is full of bribes.
          11 But as for me, I shall walk in my integrity;
          Redeem me, and be gracious to me.
          12 My foot stands on a level place;
          In the congregations I shall bless the Lord.

          Or perhaps what Paul wrote to Timothy in 2 Timothy 4:
          I have fought the good fight,
          I have finished the course,
          I have kept the faith;

          David (and Paul) yielded to the Holy Spirit to do the Lord’s will. We should strive to do the same for we have a choice as to whether to follow the Spirit or reject His leading…..

          • Virginia Burshaw on November 22, 2018 at 1:06 pm

            We ought to be growing up in Christ and repeating: “I” have been crucified with Christ and it is no longer “I” that liveth, but Christ that liveth in me.”Galatians::2:20



          • fessdo on November 22, 2018 at 3:49 pm

            Gregg,
            True David was a man after God’s own heart but it didn’t say he had God’s heart, (maybe Bathsheba’s but not God’s) plus Jesus hadn’t died for his sins so he only had his self to brag on . The church people like you have a “pat myself on the back problem” as for me Jesus and only Jesus is the one that deserves my pat.



          • Gregg Powers on November 22, 2018 at 7:07 pm

            If you really believe that, why would Paul say what he did?



    • Talitha on November 22, 2018 at 4:47 pm

      God’s holy word judgeth truthfully and reithously he who wants to hear let him hear saith the Lord
      (2 Timothy 3:1-5) “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. {2} For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, {3} Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, {4} Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; {5} Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”
      Modern day churches are in apostasy Laodiceans lukewarm state ,they care for their earthly possessions and their pride and their adulteries stealing from poor and misleading the orphans -with those the true believer is not commanded to abide with, as the Lord gave them time to repent from their wicked ways (Book of Rev ch.3 )to repent and turn from their own idols and their own desires and vain imaginations of their hearts. As the Lord said:
      (Matthew 15:18-20) “But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. {19} For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: {20} These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
      The Ecclesia of Lord Jesus is called to get out from among them
      (Isaiah 52:11) “¶ Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.”
      If a person is not interested in hearing the word of God , leave them. on top of everything then what is left ? A house built on sand will surely fall.
      True members of Christ’s body feeding on the Lord’s HOLY word while today’s apostate lukewarm churches are throwing God’s word out of the window all the signs are in the scriptures, the deception is massive .

      • Gregg Powers on November 22, 2018 at 7:12 pm

        We agree.

        • fessdo on November 22, 2018 at 7:44 pm

          2 Corinthians 11:23-28 – “. . . in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness —
          Gregg anyone that goes thru that much is bound to get a few things mixed up. Jesus is the perfect one not Paul.

          • Gregg Powers on November 22, 2018 at 8:24 pm

            I see. So now you are saying scripture is screwed up because what Paul said is explained away by his experiences. Has nothing to do with being perfect. David did not say he was perfect; neither did Paul. Both said to God they acted faithfully. It, as stated before, has everything to do with submitting to the Holy Spirit which you either purpose to do or not to do. David, Paul, and others who are truly following Christ acknowledge their faithful actions before the Lord. It is the error of the Modern Church that says you can go on living any life you want and remain saved. Decide whom you will listen to: the Word of God or the word of man…….



      • Gregg Powers on November 23, 2018 at 1:06 pm

        Well said

      • fessdo on November 23, 2018 at 1:10 pm

        Talitha,
        You have hit the nail on the head here, and I agree with Virginia Burshaw when she said “We ought to be growing up in Christ “. You can always tell when someone has grown in Christ by the humbleness increasing and their pride decreasing.
        A proud/foolish man is always boasting or bragging about their accomplishments where as a humble man will shift the glory onto someone else, that’s why humble people are so easy to get along with and a joy to be around. Humble people are few and far between in this day and time, especially in the works church.

    • David Bressler on November 26, 2018 at 3:33 am

      The “churches” I attended had their little cliques and refused to admit believers and followers of Christ such as I, when I began attending these churches. Moreover, the leaders, or pastors, of these churches were full of pride and self-righteousness, ignoring every thought except their own flawed thinking. I’ve walked with Christ for 48 years now, but His blessed fellowship with me and his guidance were discarded by these prideful, self-righteous “leaders” and pastors. My attempts at friendship and fellowship with them was rejected. I had no choice except to shake off the dust. No wonder if others have experienced the same things and walked away from the “church”. It makes me wonder about the meaning of Matthew 22:14.

      • Gregg Powers on November 26, 2018 at 12:28 pm

        Sounds to me like a church full of people not truly seeking our Lord and what He was about. I am sorry for your experiences. As I have stated, true believers seek to do the will of the Father. What the Modern Church teaches is that you can live your life ANYWAY you want, including living in sin, being friends with the world and it has no eternal consequences. So I point back to scripture and those that God lifts up which clearly demonstrates those in Christ trying to live faithfully. The whole idea of the Modern Church that we only live in sin is designed to demoralize. Instead we ought to be seeking victory over sin through the Holy Spirit which leads us out of sin……In any event, pray you find fellowship with other believers. God Bless….in Him

        • fessdo on November 26, 2018 at 1:11 pm

          Gregg,
          Whether we live in sin or comment just ONE sin in our entire life is the same thing, if we break one we broke them all.
          Sin Does Not Send You to Hell, Rejecting Jesus Does. Many assume that sin is what sends a person to hell. But sin has been paid for by Jesus, therefore the only thing that condemns a person is rejecting the payment for sin. Jesus was the payment. God provided the way in Jesus so to reject Him you are rejecting the only way for salvation. This is a hard truth for some who look for multiple ways to heaven (works), but Jesus is the only one who tasted death in our place so we could be completely forgiven and righteous before God. God didn’t see the need to provide a different way when he started with the perfect way.
          “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son” (John 3:17-18)
          Gregg get off the works treadmill and receive Jesus.

          • Gregg Powers on November 26, 2018 at 1:46 pm

            So i want to restate what you are saying before the Lord. You claim that once you have accepted Jesus Christ, you can live in as much sin as you like and God will be fine with it, still welcoming you into His kingdom?



          • fessdo on November 26, 2018 at 4:49 pm

            Gregg,
            You have read something into my comment that I didn’t say, however here’s a news flash for you ” there will be NO good people in God’s kingdom, only sinners” Mark 10:18 You’ll have some with a lot of sin and some with fewer sins but all will have sinned Romans 3:23 The only difference in the sinners that don’t make it into the kingdom is they will not or have not receive Jesus as their savior, and it has to be ALL Jesus not 1/2 self and 1/2 Jesus or 2/3 Jesus and 1/3 self. Pride will always want a part in the deal, a “look at what ME and Jesus did God” and that want quiet cut it.



          • Gregg Powers on November 26, 2018 at 5:29 pm

            You said “Sin does not send you to hell” That means you are saying that no amount of sin will ever separate you from God whether intentional or not. That is a lie. You play games with scripture rather than have the reverent desire for holiness because of what God did for you. Your comments suggest you believe that we have no responsibility before the Lord and indicate that nothing we do makes any difference to our salvation in spite of what scripture says. These are all lies of the evil one. I can only pray that you do not mislead more people into sin. When one has true faith one does not in anyway try to downplay sin.



          • fessdo on November 26, 2018 at 6:23 pm

            Gregg,
            Why can’t you just let Jesus be enough?
            Romans 10:9



          • Gregg Powers on November 26, 2018 at 7:13 pm

            Because simply, scripture as a whole does not reflect what that one passage says. For example Jesus said “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters-yes, even their own life-such a person cannot be my disciple.” Would you say that passage alone is enough to base a doctrine? You need to understand what belief means. To believe in God is to accept and reflect His ways. It is not some simple intellectual belief. People who truly believe things act in a manner consistent with those beliefs. If you REALLY believe the stock market will crash tomorrow, you sell everything. If you don’t, you really didn’t believe. Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what I say?



        • fessdo on November 26, 2018 at 8:08 pm

          Gregg,
          I have a trusting faith that Jesus’s sacrifice was more than enough to save the world, but it only works for those that believe and not only must you believe in the Jesus, but you must also have true faith. In theology, they talk about two kinds of faith: ascentia and fiducia. Ascentia is nothing more than mental acknowledgment. The devil, for example, acknowledges that God exists (James 2:19). But he does not have fiducia. That is, he does not have a trusting faith in God. It is fiducia that Christians are supposed to possess. We are to have a faithful, independent trust in the work of Christ upon the cross who cleansed us from our sins. We don’t just have mental acknowledgment that Jesus lived and died on the cross. We not only believe that, but we also trust in the sin sacrifice that Jesus made on that cross. Salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone. There are many groups that falsely teach that in order to be saved from your sins, you must believe in God and do good things and/or not do bad things. This is false because we are justified (declared righteous before God) by faith (Romans 3:28; 5:1), not by works (Romans 4:1-5; Ephesians 2:8-9).

          • David Bressler on November 26, 2018 at 10:12 pm

            @Gregg – The way I heard it put (and put best, I must say), “You either got bit by that snake or you didn’t.” If one has the Holy Spirit living inside of them, they KNOW it. I KNOW it.

            Amen.

            All blessing, honor, glory and power to our Holy, perfect, precious, beloved Lord JESUS!



          • David Bressler on November 26, 2018 at 10:17 pm

            @fessdo –

            James 2:14-26
            Faith Without Works Is Dead
            14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
            18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
            25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
            26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



          • Gregg Powers on November 27, 2018 at 12:27 am

            Does not work as you stated. True faith produces works otherwise it is simple acknowledgement. True faith produces obedience and works. That is the correct order faith –> produces. As the example i gave shows if you REALLY believe you act. If you don’t act, you really don’t believe……that is what scripture teaches



          • fessdo on November 27, 2018 at 8:38 am

            Gregg,
            It’s really simple,, GRACE,,
            lets use Chase’s favorite version here,,,
            1 John 2:1-2 New Living Translation (NLT)
            My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. BUT if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father. He is JESUS CHRIST, the one who is truly righteous. He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.
            Grace is from God not self so the “works” people won’t study, teach, or use God’s wonderful grace.



          • Gregg Powers on November 27, 2018 at 11:49 am

            Read Romans 6 fessdo. If it were as simple as you desire it to be, there would have been no reason for God to have inspired all the admonitions and warnings. I know you want to believe it is that simple, but that is not what scripture testifies. Think about it this way: everything you argue is designed to detach works from faith whereas Biblically they are one. The presentation you gives leads people into sin, into living in the flesh because you believe that only grace is necessary and that people can live any type of life they want once they have “accepted” Christ. I remind you again of the words of Jesus “Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what i say?” Faith begets action with that action being obedience and good works (love) done through the Holy Spirit. If we are not following where the Spirit leads, we are not led of the Spirit. Here is the good news, if you truly do believe and are trying to live as God commands following where the Spirit leads, you have no fear. This is the summation of scripture and of the two greatest commandments.



          • fessdo on November 27, 2018 at 1:10 pm

            Gregg,
            Oh my bad, it isn’t only grace that’s necessary but mercy and grace which go hand in hand. Have you ever heard “one oh crap will erase a thousand attaboy” this principle is the same for sin and works. If I have 3 good works and you have 1000 good works and we commit one sin then both of us are now the same. When I stand before God I don’t want my good works list to show Him I want His mercy and grace.
            As for me making it too simple, Jesus was the one that made it simple, man is the one that makes it hard. Ever heard the word gospel described as “the to good to be true news” that is why the disciples said “Paul says some hard thing” when he was talking about mercy, grace, and faith.
            Gregg you was born about 2050 to late.



          • Gregg Powers on November 27, 2018 at 1:13 pm

            We are not going to agree here but in the end, you stand against the breadth of scripture. I can only counsel you to stop listening to men and listen to all of scripture. I have witnessed to you the breadth of scripture. Hoping you find the truth friend. in Him



          • fessdo on November 28, 2018 at 9:03 am

            Gregg,
            Is that it “the breadth of scripture” that’s all you have, another one of those churchy cachet people use who run out of answers. How can a man who clams to be LED by the Holy Spirit only answer with ” breadth of scripture” you could get that from any black sliding church? The truth is Jesus, the answer is Jesus, and the way to God is Jesus. Jesus yoke is easy and His burden is light, so when it gets hard and complicated you know it’s not the way of a child of God and works are hard. [Matthew 11:30]



          • Gregg Powers on November 28, 2018 at 3:33 pm

            I am sorry, but i spoke the truth. You do not. You follow religion because you do not teach what scripture teaches. I pray that you do not deceive more people. I used the term breadth of scripture because there are so many scriptures that contradict what you say. Has nothing to do with churchiness; i don’t even regularly attend. Again, hoping you don’t mislead more with your can do anything you want or do nothing at all as the hallmark of your “saving faith”. Praying you find the truth.



        • David Bressler on November 26, 2018 at 10:08 pm

          Thank you, my brother, for your prayer. The most discouraging element in my own situation is that those in the “church” who claim to worship Christ would reject one who loves and worships and attempts to obey Him because of their own pride and self-righteousness, instead of obeying His second most important commandment.
          Matthew 22;36-40
          “Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?”
          Jesus answered: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind. This is the first and most important commandment. The second most important commandment is like this one. And it is, “Love others as much as you love yourself.” All the Law of Moses and the Books of the Prophets are based on these two commandments.
          It is pride and envy that interferes with obeying His second proclomation. Again, back to my original point: I have avoided “churches” because they have proven to be a stumbling block to me, rather than a gateway to our Lord.
          Again, thanks for your prayer, brother Gregg. I, too, pray for fellowship with other believers (many, instead of the few with whom I share a bond in Jesus, thanks and praise to Him). My true brethren put Jesus first, above themselves.

        • David Bressler on November 27, 2018 at 12:23 am

          All praise, honor, glory and power unto our blessed Lord and Savior Jesus. Without Him, we have no hope.

          Amen.

          • Gregg Powers on November 27, 2018 at 12:35 am

            Just a reminder though Dave (and i know this will stir up issues) but being indwelt is not the same as being led. Paul makes this point to the Galatian believers in 5:25 right after reminding them a second time, that if they kept following the flesh, even though they were indwelt, they would not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

            The key is what we discussed earlier. The Holy Spirit, along with a true and living faith leads us to do works that bring glory to our God and love our brother. But as we discussed somewhere earlier, we are now under the law of the Spirit which is an extension of the letter of the law and these, as you say, are the same as the two greatest commandments. If you love God first and foremost and your brother as yourself, you will not find yourself living in sin.

            in Him

            G



          • David Bressler on November 27, 2018 at 1:13 pm

            @my brothers fessdo and Gregg
            I remember in the movie “Deliverance” when John Voight (“Ed”) says to Burt Reynolds (“Lewis”), “Night has fallen, Lewis, and there’s nothing we can do about it.”
            I believe that God has a perfect, immutable Will and that His Will be done, and there’s nothing we can do about it. We can struggle, try to change our thinking and behavior, seek counselling, writhe and contort ourselves anyway we choose in an effort to change who we are, but His Will be done, regardless. Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” We have been chosen, and for that we should be eternally grateful. We had nothing to do with our salvation. It is God’s Will. So, praise God and be thankful for His Holy Spirit that lives within you and live in accordance with His Will.
            btw, if I could find a church locally with a congregation made up of people like fessdo and Gregg, I would gladly attend to share fellowship in and worship of our Lord and Savior with them.



          • fessdo on November 27, 2018 at 1:20 pm

            That a boy Dave I like that, you know the bible says iron sharpen iron so I thank you for that comment.



          • Gregg Powers on November 28, 2018 at 3:35 pm

            thanks for your kind words David. i want to counsel you, as i have fessdo, to not simply believe what we want but to read scripture for the source of the truth. Praying for you……



      • Salvation on November 30, 2018 at 1:18 pm

        “Oh, I better go to church because you said I can’t have Jesus otherwise… and therefore, won’t go to Heaven. Right? You can’t have Heaven without Jesus, true. That’s were it ends though. Christ was crucified. Scaring people into going to church by making them feel they will not have Jesus otherwise, is not just bad, it’s damaging to others who might be searching for Jesus but are quickly turned off by your statement. Coming from a Christian and pastors son who grew up in the church and who has been in and out of church and has watched friends run away scared from the church and now, may never know Jesus….this is why! I guess they didn’t make the cut…I don’t care whether we see eye to eye…but it’s not just that with you…You have to mass communicate this so that if someone makes a google search and finds you, they will either buy in, or run away and wonder why they were even curious about Jesus and the church. You didn’t die for their sins. Jesus did. You honestly believe Jesus wants you to spread this message for church attendance? The church is not meant to be a museum of good people that tell you how to live but a hospital for the broken”. You honestly think someone who doesn’t go to church believes they can just go and commit any sin they want? No, they want to be free from the condemnation that comes from people like you, who are also sinners. People who live in the middle east might as well not even bother. With Christianity at 5% in the middle eastern population, good luck finding a church and if you don’t, sorry, you can’t have Jesus. What is salvation again? Ahhhh yes…It’s the deliverance from sin and its consequences, believed by Christians to be brought about by faith in Christ. How does that NOT sum things up here?

        • Son on December 2, 2018 at 12:34 pm

          @Salvation
          Nicely stated!
          Thanks for sharing, brother. Your comment was enlightening to me.

          God’s Peace and Blessing be abundantly upon you, bro.

          Dave

          • Gregg Powers on December 2, 2018 at 1:11 pm

            OMT Dave, most of the epistles in the NT and especially Revelation 2 and 3 are written to churches that have significant problems with people not following the Holy Spirit.



          • Son on December 2, 2018 at 4:04 pm

            Perhaps I, in my ignorance, am walking off a cliff and don’t even realize it, Gregg. However, the only indicator I can go on is the peace I feel within my soul, the peace given to me through The Charity, Mercy and Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. When I have that peace that passeth all understanding, I do not feel any particular need to radically change my behavior. Again, if one loves God and loves His brethren, is that person disobeying God in some other way, and would God ignore the problem and silently allow that brother to continue in a blind and dark state of spiritual being? That doesn’t sound like The God whom I know and love. My God died to save me. He will not desert or forsake me. Anyone who tries to convince me otherwise is serving the enemy. This is my true feeling on this topic.
            May God bless you with wisdom in His Holy Spirit and bless you with His Peace that passeth all understanding, brother.

            Dave



          • Gregg Powers on December 2, 2018 at 10:18 pm

            Dave, not suggesting you are walking off a cliff. But in the NT, love for God is restated over and over to be obedience. If you are loving God and loving others then it sounds to me you ARE being led to follow the Spirit…….But Dave I just counsel you to based your “belief” on what scripture says, of what all scripture says…..in Him



      • JOHN on January 8, 2019 at 8:43 pm

        David B’. I Hope i find a true follower of Jesus. i do not go to church for i may be to sick or just don’t see fit to go?

        • JOHN on January 8, 2019 at 8:51 pm

          I also grew up in the seventh day advantist church off and on for 50 years. later hearing about the book of ROMANS that was never or not talked about much i feel

        • JOHN on January 8, 2019 at 8:57 pm

          I also grew up in the seventh day advantist church off and on for 50 years. later hearing about the book of ROMANS that was never or not talked about much i feel.

  16. carolyn on November 21, 2018 at 11:48 am

    “Be amazed that God uses people in His church that are imperfect????”
    That would be great but not when they think they are perfect
    and the things you see are wrong.
    That is why people are not attending church.
    They are not open or teachable.

    • David Bressler on November 26, 2018 at 3:37 am

      I agree with you, Carolyn.

    • Stu on November 26, 2018 at 6:25 am

      Carolyn,

      That was as beautiful as it was poetic. I cannot add anything to what you said. How true indeed., My first letter here was out of bitterness, and when I saw so much more of the same, I turned around and saw His Body much differently. Thank you for reaffirming that.

    • Son on December 2, 2018 at 10:58 pm

      @Gregg – ” Dave I just counsel you to based your “belief” on what scripture says, of what all scripture says.” I understand, brother Gregg, and thank you once again for your wise counsel. I certainly believe what you emphasize about basing my belief on Holy Scripture and not upon the teachings (false teachings) of men. Again, thank you, my esteemed brother. I value your counsel and rejoice that you care enough about me, as a brother in Christ, to exhort and encourage me to follow true, Holy Scripture, which is one of God’s precious gifts to us! btw, have you ever seen the movie, “The Book of Eli”? Demonstrates how precious The Holy Bible is to us as mortal human beings.
      God bless you, brother Gregg, with His peace and abundant life in His Holy Spirit.

      Dave

      • Gregg Powers on December 3, 2018 at 11:53 am

        Amen; i have not seen all of this movie (although i caught a bit of it). It is indeed precious for Psalm 119:105. God bless you Dave and know you will remain in our prayers. in Him Gregg

        • Son on December 3, 2018 at 12:16 pm

          Thanks for your prayers, my brother. I need all the prayers I can get!

          in Him,

          Dave

          • Gregg Powers on December 3, 2018 at 12:27 pm

            Amen; we all do…..



  17. Mary on November 5, 2018 at 10:06 am

    I’ve been a Catholic, a Muslim, and a Christian. None of them led me to God. As a matter of fact, I was depressed, looking at how no one really cared for the name of the LORD, they only claimed to obey.
    It wasn’t until I left all man made religions and their places of of worship that I seeked and cried out for the LORD, I wanted the truth, the truth that the Holy Spirit is to teach us, just as is written. Also written “you need no man to teach you”
    He answered me in a dream, he showed me the evil that flies in and out of religious buildings, he showed me the spiritual part that we can’t see. He showed me these places filled with dead man’s bones and witchcraft. I wondered, why? Then the Holy Spirit started teaching me why…. he took me through the scriptures, revealing lies and also the whole point this world has missed, because they have decided to follow the ways of the world, the ways the world has always worshiped. Since Moses time, you will see that God always gave very specific instructions for any place or thing that would be used for His worship/His name. Anything he did not give instructions to use for His name, was and is to this very day, an abomination to the LORD. Also, the things and place that God did authorize for the use of His name, humans ALWAYS DEFILED THEM. So when Christ died on the cross and the veil to the place God authorized for His name, ripped in half, that represented the tearing away of the kingdom and the kingdom of heaven given to Christ, took hold. Our bodies then became the only authorized by God temple of the Holy Spirit. Christ teaches to this very day, that we’re not to take up titles on this earth to make ourselves superior to our bretheren. The titles of pastor, evangelist, prophet and so on, belong to the kingdom of heaven and should never be used on this earth to mislead and covet souls we did not die for, to ourselves, in an unauthorized by God, place of worship. Christ can do the works of these titles through any of his followers, but we never see the apostles calling themselves; pastor Paul, youth pastor Paul, senior pastor Paul, pope Paul (pope isn’t even used in scriptures), Rabbi, evangelist Paul. Go back and see how the apostles introduce themselves to other called out ones, in their letters. They don’t use titles that lift them up, that would be a thing of the world, and we were called out to Christ. If Christ is our only mediator and the head of his own body, why on earth would we go to some prideful person with a man given title? I’ve been given tasks directly from the Lord, why on earth would I go do what a man made religion and man titled religious leader tells me to do. I believe in the ressurection of Christ, he is the one teaching me via the Holy Spirit sent by God, in the name of Christ. Why would I worship in a place that people call “house of the LORD/God” when I know it’s a great big lie and rebellion against God? Why would I leave the fellowship of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit to fellowship with darkness?
    Why would I leave my bretheren who walk in the light? It’s Christ’s body, he is very much alive and able to kick out any evil that tries to enter his own body. I am in him and he is in me. I will never seek after another leader, who isn’t the good shepherd, savior, and the only way, truth, and life. All religious leaders, who slapped a title to their own name, are self condemned, because they never did believe in the ressurection, if they had believed, they would be taught and led by Christ himself. They would gather with the bretheren around the world, from their own authorized temple (their body) they would eat of the spiritual bread sent from heaven, Christ.
    To build a place that God nor Christ gave authority for their names to be used in, is an abomination and rebellion against God. It’s like your spouse going to their lover’s house and forsaking your own house.
    In this case, you have forsaken the true body of Christ and made up your own.
    Do not call child sexual abusing, fornicating, adulterous places of worship “house of the LORD” repent and seek God, through Christ. You cannot serve God through Christ while busy serving a religion and it’s own place of worship.
    This is why God says over and over “my people have gone whoring, and have forsaken this place, that I made for my name” now, it’s the kingdom of heaven, where no human can defile.
    Acts 7:48 the Most High dwells not in temples (places of worship) made by human hands.
    Jeremiah 17 : 5 cursed is the one who trusts in man.
    Learn away from alll religions and all man titled preachers and their traditions. Learn from the Holy Spirit. Gather in the light, with the rest of Christ’s body. Let the Spirit guide you on what you’re to do. We’re never to covet another man’s household, much less his wife, to ourselves, in an unbiblical and unauthorized by God, place of worship.
    In a man made place of worship, we do not know the personal lives of the people, some we know are false bretheren, yet we worship with them? When scripture says “come out from amongst then, and be ye separate” and also written “have no fellowship with darkness” also written “you must go to the place I choose, for my name”
    Sorry this is long, but I do as the Spirit guides, if you’re being called out by the LORD, then this is for you, check it, confirm it, and do it without the ways of the world interfering. Just you and the Holy Spirit. Adam and Eve needed no place of worship nor did they need a bible, they just had the LORD. Return to your 1st love.

    • Zack on November 7, 2018 at 1:13 pm

      Mary,

      that was a great comment and I can really relate to your lengthy post.

      I’d like to chat further on the subject if you’re open to it.

      I can be reached here: ModernDiscernment.com/contact

      In Christ,
      -Zack

    • Hilton on November 10, 2018 at 3:04 am

      All my other comments Mary are awaiting moderation. (might be because of email addresses) I found your article thrilling and good confirmation to me about my directions. If you would like please email me ihavelights then the at symbol and the gmail bit on the end. Thanks

      God bless you. How did He lead you to find other body members of like mind and heart?

    • fessdo on November 17, 2018 at 8:42 am

      Mary,
      This is what happens to the churches that focus on works as a way to salvation. You will always have a person with a work mentality ask “what about James writings” but they really haven’t study what James was talking about. James is addressing Christians from Jerusalem. There is a famine going on, the same famine that Paul was collecting money for from the congregations in Greece and Asia. So he is exhorting fellow Christians to care for their brothers and sisters. He is not saying that you need to do works to be saved, but rather that God has commanded us to take care of the poor and needy, and provoking the thought that if you are not obeying God, are you truly saved? We are justified solely by faith, and because of the grace of God. “Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Romans 5:1
      However, if we are not changed, and obeying God, including caring for the poor, has God really saved us?

    • Aldean on November 17, 2018 at 9:19 am

      The christan church goesers build there unity. Aroind the cross symble christion solders. The last crusade the Germans in the late 30’s and early 40’s. They raleyed with the USA to join in with them. The cross is an earthly symble. God is in the sperit. From the time of Mossis the ten camadments God made it clear that He was not asociated with a wordly symble or objek. The christans insist on the using cross. Brimstone and fire distruction so bad that the servivers wont be able to bury all the dead.

      • fessdo on November 17, 2018 at 10:47 am

        Aldean,
        Please give us your code book to the words you wrote.

        Thanks,

        • Marge on November 30, 2018 at 2:17 pm

          No code book needed. I think Its called called non native English speaker. Aldean, your message was understood. Thanks.

    • David Bressler on November 26, 2018 at 1:13 pm

      Matthew 23:9
      “And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”

      Amen.

  18. Dale on November 1, 2018 at 10:32 pm

    1 Corinthians 7:19 KJV This verse and the verses around it tell us Not to get cicumcized. Not to obey Old Testament commandments. Galatians tells us that if we do we are making Christ of no effect and falling from Grace! So what are the commandments and more importantly HOW can we obey them? It’s not the ten commandments as Jesus asked for much higher when He said that hating your brother is murdering and looking at a woman to lust after her is adultery.
    A new commandment I give unto you that you LOVE one another as I have loved you. Loving God and loving people is the ONLY way to come to the purity and standards of our Lord. Only by a thorough work of the Holy Spirit can a man be free from lust and even the slightest dislike that can fester into hate.
    Love is the first fruit of the Spirit shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.
    Trying harder to keep laws will actually produce sin as the commandment uses the sinful nature to produce more sin. This is not a pedal harder Gospel but jump in the plane of the spirit and fly above it all. Walk in the spirit and you will NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Only true Holy Spirit intimacy and love will keep my heart from seeking false intimacy of fleshly lusts.
    If you love truly and abide in the vine you will obey all. What commandment can’t be obeyed through the true love of God in us? I challenge my dear brothers and sisters in this matter. Love peace and grace to both Gregg and Fessdo.

    • fessdo on November 2, 2018 at 7:50 am

      Dale,
      For years and years I did the “pedal harder gospel” till one day I burnt out. I can’t count the people who had tried to tell me about grace but with my prideful mind I wouldn’t listen I just pedal harder to prove them wrong. Then one day thanks to God I received grace, a grace that God gives to the willing humble, and as a bonus a rest that passes all understanding came with it. There is a great difference between know about something and receiving it.

      • Gregg Powers on November 2, 2018 at 10:10 am

        Dale do not be deceived. What fessdo teaches is NOT what scripture teaches – it is what men teach. A true and living faith causes us to follow the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit leads us to obey to love our fellow men with actions, not words. This is what scripture teaches. Friend do not follow men. Follow ALL of scripture.

        • fessdo on November 2, 2018 at 6:20 pm

          Dale,
          Gregg’s teaching would be spot on if you take Jesus out of the picture.

          • Gregg Powers on November 2, 2018 at 6:33 pm

            and your’s would be spot on if you took scripture out of the picture…..praying you do not mislead more….



        • fessdo on December 2, 2018 at 11:41 am

          Dave,
          If justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. (Gal. 2:21)
          For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” … Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. (Gal. 3:10, 13)
          Historically, Protestants have believed that the Bible teaches that our salvation depends on what Christ has accomplished for our pardon and our perfection. We accept by faith his substitution for us in two senses: in his final suffering and death, he was condemned and cursed so that we may be pardoned (see Gal. 3:13; Rom. 8:3); and in his whole life of righteousness culminating in his death, he learned obedience so that we may be saved (see Heb. 5:8-9). His death crowns his atoning sufferings that propitiate God’s wrath against us (see Rom. 3:24-25; 5:6-9), but it also crowns his life of perfect righteousness—God’s righteousness —that is then imputed to us who believe (see 2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 3:21-22; 4:6, 11; 5:18-19).
          God provided in Christ what God demanded from us in the law. But today this good news that Christ is not only our pardon but also our perfection is under serious attack. Here I hope to show not only that the doctrine of the imputation of Christ’s righteousness is biblical but why we should defend it.
          Three times in Galatians 2:16, Paul tells us that no one can be justified —no one can be made right with God—by “works of the law.” In context, this phrase refers most naturally to deeds done to obey Moses’ law. (Note the parallels between “the Book of the Law” and “works of the law” in Gal. 3:10, and between “the law” in Rom. 3:19, 20 and “works of the law” in Rom. 3:20. In both Gal. 3:10 and Rom. 3:19-20, the term “law” refers to the Mosaic law; so the phrase “works of the law” naturally picks up that meaning.)
          In its narrow, short-term design, the law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses demanded perfect obedience of the Pentateuch’s more than 600 commandments in order for the Israelites to receive eternal life (see Lev. 18:5; Deut. 32:45-47; Rom. 10:5; Gal. 3:10, 12). In this way, it upheld an absolute standard of childlike, humble, God-reliant, God-exalting perfect obedience that is in fact due from all of us—and thus provided the moral backdrop without which the Pentateuch’s sin-atoning provisions (and ultimately Christ’s sacrifice) would be unintelligible.
          Yet the Israelites were uniformly sinful and hostile to God (see Exod. 33:1-3; Acts 7:51). They did not—and indeed could not (see Rom. 8:7) —submit to him. Consequently, the law’s effect on sinful Israel, when she was confronted with its hundreds of commandments, was awareness of latent sin (see Rom. 7:7), increased sin through deliberate violation of God’s holy, righteous, and good commandment (see Rom. 7:12-13), and the multiplication of transgressions (see Rom. 5:20; 4:15). All of this was part of God’s design for the law: “[The law] was added for the sake of transgressions” (Gal. 3:19); “The law came in so that the transgression would increase” (Rom. 5:20). The law cannot give life (see Gal. 3:21); rather it kills by multiplying sin (see Rom. 7:5, 8-13).
          The law’s deadly design and effects are sufficient to warrant Paul’s statement in Galatians 3:12—”The law is not of faith”— especially in view of what he says eleven verses later: “Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law . . . . But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian” (vv. 23, 25). This does not mean that there was no faith before Christ (see Rom. 4) but, rather, that there was no faith explicitly in Christ before Christ came. The law’s function, in the long view, is to prepare God’s people for Christ’s work, even as its short-term function is to imprison its recipients in sin (see Gal. 3:22-23). The narrow, short-term aim of the law is to kill those who come in contact with it because it is primarily “commandments” (see Rom. 13:8-9; Eph. 2:15) that require perfect obedience but that cannot themselves produce this obedience independently of the Spirit who “gives life” (2 Cor. 3:6).
          What God Requires, Christ Provides, justification cannot come through the law (see Gal. 2:21; Acts 13:38-39). Each of us-every single human being (see Rom. 3:10-12, 19-20)-has failed to do what God’s law requires of us (Gal. 3:10; 6:13; cf. James 2:10). But to understand what God requires, we must see what Christ provides. In his mercy, God has provided his Son as a twofold substitute for us. Both facets of Christ’s substitution are crucial for our becoming right with God. These facets are grounded in the twin facts that (1) we have failed to keep God’s law perfectly, and so we should die; but (2) Jesus did not fail—he alone has kept God’s law perfectly (see Heb. 4:15) —and so he should not have died.
          Yet in his mercy God has provided in Christ a great substitution—a “blessed exchange”—according to which Jesus can stand in for us with God, offering his perfect righteousness in place of our failure and his own life’s blood in place of ours. When we receive the mercy God offers us in Christ by faith (see Acts 16:31; 1 Tim. 1:15-16; 1 Pet. 1:8-9), his perfection is imputed—or credited or reckoned—to us and our sinful failure is imputed—or credited or reckoned—to him. And thus Jesus’ undeserved death pays for our sin (see Mark 10:45; 1 Tim. 2:5-6; Rev. 5:9); and God’s demand for us to be perfectly righteous is satisfied by the imputation or crediting of Christ’s perfect righteousness to us. “If justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose” (Gal. 2:21). But “God has done what the law … could not do” (Rom. 8:3).
          2 Corinthians 5:21 is one of Scripture’s most powerful affirmations of the imputation of Christ’s righteousness to the account of those who believe in him: “For our sake [God] made [Christ] to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” There is a great deal that can be said about this verse but, when all is said and done, perhaps Charles Hodge has summed up its import best:
          There is probably no passage in the Scriptures in which the doctrine of justification is more concisely or clearly stated than [this]. Our sins were imputed to Christ, and his righteousness is imputed to us. He bore our sins; we are clothed in his righteousness… Christ bearing our sins did not make him morally a sinner… nor does Christ’s righteousness become subjectively ours, it is not the moral quality of our souls… Our sins were the judicial ground of the sufferings of Christ, so that they were a satisfaction of justice; and his righteousness is the judicial ground of our acceptance with God.
          All of this then means, as Hodge goes on to say, that “our pardon is an act of justice”—an act based on Jesus having borne our sins (see 1 Pet. 2:24)—and yet it “is not mere pardon, but justification alone”—that is, our forevermore standing as righteous before God because we are clothed with Christ’s perfection—”that gives us peace with God.”

    • Gregg Powers on November 2, 2018 at 10:16 am

      It does tell is what you say but also reaffirms Paul’s point to keep the moral law. Are you really saying before God that it is okay to murder? to steal? No you keep these because the Holy Spirit leads you to do so. The commandments have been restated over and over in the NT. Why? It is because we are to follow them as a part of loving God and loving man. Even what you quote about love is the EXACT same. If you murder your brother are you loving him? No, you are following the commandments which show love. This is why Jesus taught that to love God first and foremost and brothers as ourselves embraces the law and the prophets. In fact Jesus taught that the law of the spirit is even more encompassing then the commands. The commands of the moral law embrace loving others. So we play a game before God when we insist that we need not follow the commandments but must love other. THEY ARE THE SAME.

      • fessdo on November 2, 2018 at 6:22 pm

        Gregg,
        Unlike your ancestors, you didn’t come to Mount Sinai—all that volcanic blaze and earthshaking rumble—to hear God speak. The earsplitting words and soul-shaking message terrified them and they begged him to stop. When they heard the words—“If an animal touches the Mountain, it’s as good as dead”—they were afraid to move. Even Moses was terrified.
        No, that’s not your experience at all. You’ve come to Mount Zion, the city where the living God resides. The invisible Jerusalem is populated by throngs of festive angels and Christian citizens. It is the city where God is Judge, with judgments that make us just. You’ve come to Jesus, who presents us with a new covenant, a fresh charter from God. He is the Mediator of this covenant. The murder of Jesus, unlike Abel’s—a homicide that cried out for vengeance—became a proclamation of grace.

        • Gregg Powers on November 2, 2018 at 6:36 pm

          you refuse to look at the breadth of scripture. fessdo for your own sake and the others you teach, you must read all scripture. do not be a cafeteria christian who believes the points you want and ignore the rest. obedience and works both proceed from a true and living faith led by the Holy Spirit.

          • fessdo on November 2, 2018 at 7:11 pm

            God’s decision to send Jesus to earth to suffer, die, and rise again was for what in you book?



  19. Doesn't Matter on November 1, 2018 at 10:34 am

    The church epistles were not written to organizations in different areas. They were written to the body of believers that were in that area. The church (in the grace administration of the bible), is the body of Christ (Us, the body of believers). The “church” is not a bunch of competing non profits, with pastors comparing attendance numbers instead of dick size…which is what we have in America today. American Christian doctrine and culture sucks! Gods love for us is so one sided, as demonstrated in the fact that He gave His one and only Son! (Jesus really is the son of God by the way, not God pretending to be His own son, but that’s another issue). People can’t stand the one-sidedness of the gospel, and the idea of them not getting partial credit for their salvation eats them up. So, they build a “ministry” with their own name all over it, and glory in all the things they are doing for God. What a joke. The story begins and ends with Gods love for us and how awesome HE is. Sorry to all the pop-christians out there ‘peddling the word of God for profit’ ( I think the Word has something to say about that too).

    • fessdo on November 1, 2018 at 4:40 pm

      Doesn’t Matter,
      You’ve done it now saying “the idea of them not getting partial credit for their salvation eats them up” you’ll be hearing from old (working my way to heaven Gregg) he’s wrote a book you know, have you?

      • Gregg Powers on November 1, 2018 at 6:47 pm

        sounds more consistent with scripture for 1 Corinthians 7:19

        • fessdo on November 1, 2018 at 6:59 pm

          there maybe hope
          Gregg made a joke

      • Gregg Powers on November 28, 2018 at 4:37 pm

        This will get you started…..
        Romans 8
        12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

        Galatians 5
        19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

        Galatians 6
        7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

        Hebrews 5
        8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

        James 2
        26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

        John 15
        1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

        Romans 1
        5 Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.

        John 14
        15 “If you love me, keep my commands” and 21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.”

        Romans 2
        6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

        Luke 6
        46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

        • David Bressler on November 28, 2018 at 11:28 pm

          @Gregg
          We are led by the Holy Spirit of God when we commit our lives to Jesus and realize that we are NOTHING. We are completely insignificant. The Holy Word of God is what everything is all about. We are at His Mercy. We live in good conscience to our Lord Jesus. Yes, we are all sinners and have fallen short of The Glory of God. The thief on the cross next to Jesus when our Lord was crucified obtained mercy through the faith he demonstrated by asking Jesus to remember him when Jesus came into His Kingdom. So, how can we be saved through works? Still, works is the fruit of faith. Jesus destroyed a fig tree that bore no fruit. Our works are our fruit. When we show compassion to another who is needy, we store treasure in Heaven. These are my beliefs. All praise, honor, glory and power to our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Holy Word of God for whom and by whom all of creation exists.
          God bless you, my dear and esteemed brother. Thank you for the wisdom and learning that you so earnestly share with me and with fessdo. I cherish the fellowship I find here on this website with both of you.

          Dave

          • Gregg Powers on November 29, 2018 at 12:23 pm

            Brother I don’t think you are not reading what i wrote. Works are the natural progression of a true and saving faith. That is what scripture teaches. The Holy Spirit leads us to serve God. But it is our choice whether to submit to the Holy Spirit. We may refuse this. This is why Paul told the Galatians to not only live in the Spirit, but WALK in the Spirit. It is also the reason for the myriad of other passages i shared. As for us being NOTHING, we were important enough to God to send His Son to give His life for us.

            Let me just ask the question that i ask all Christians who have trouble with this relationship between faith and works (even though it is covered pretty well throughout scripture including James 2). Can we really believe in Jesus Christ yet live in rebellion to what He tells us?



  20. none of yer business on October 14, 2018 at 6:19 pm

    Reasons i left an episcopal church:

    Leadership that was cliquish and self serving catering to the vestry
    Disengaged from the poor in their midst and those with mental illness despite being very mentally ill themselves (yet with a superior attitude at all times)
    A priest who was self involved followed by a priest who rude, mentally ill, and harassed someone followed by a priest who was rude and self serving – three narcissists in a row
    Rude comments made to me by most of the women in the church who hated me for being younger and prettier
    Sermons that failed to do anything but kiss the ass of the vestry (who often gave money to projects and expected to get that reward back in the form of ass kissing)
    Comments from too many ppl putting down the poor (the church itself was in a poor area, but the ppl attending it were rich)
    A high school attitude esp from the horrible women who attended the church
    The few good nice folks weren’t enough to make up for all the shit including being overlooked when i worked on projects with no “thanks” from the woman who ran the toy drive
    Christians are my least favourite ppl in this world and the most hypocritical, self-righteous, and obnoxious and most are awful ppl
    I’ve met far nicer heathens, atheists, and agnostics (seriously)
    Church folk are just bigoted jerks, period

    • fessdo on October 14, 2018 at 7:00 pm

      none of yer business,
      Don’t hold back tell us what you really feel about church folks.

      • David Bressler on November 26, 2018 at 2:09 pm

        Ha ha, fessdo, you have a great sense of humor. I want to party with you, dude! ; )

    • Virginia Burshaw on October 19, 2018 at 11:12 pm

      When the churches made an agreement with this Luciferian system that is when they made the hugest mistake and also when they asked Baal for permission to register for the 501(C)3 then they threw Christ out and became one with the system. Scripture says we can’t serve two masters, so see what they have done? Come out of her my people and touch not the unclean thing, she has become the habitation of every unclean thing. The leaders sold themselves out for 30 pieces of silver instead of letting Christ be the head of the body. Shame on the leaders, judgment is beginning with you. You leaders have betrayed the sheep, woe to you! The church is supposed to moving in power and authority, what a joke, you don’t see God moving in these dead churches, just a lot of talk and no power, from such turn away.

      • fessdo on October 20, 2018 at 7:33 am

        Virginia,
        You hit the nail on the head with the taxes. I’ve always believed that the church should pay taxes. When Jesus answered the Pharisees about taxes He said “Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God” but what is the churches doing?,,, hiding behind the 501 c 3 nonprofit organizations. Yet if a poor member gets in a money bind the church will be quick to tell him too ” believe in God to fulfill their need” or ” God is more than able to take care of your little money problem brother just have faith.” You just want to say “You hypocrites!” and walk away. Churches should be an examples to live by, but todays church rule is “Do as I say not as I do”. Very sad times.

        • Virginia Burshaw on October 20, 2018 at 2:18 pm

          Yes, my brother, they have sold themselves out to Lucifer and so God is not blessing these 501(C)3 churches. Scripture says not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers!! So asking the unbelievers for something that already belongs to the church. When the churches made an agreement with this Luciferian system that is when they made the hugest mistake and also, when they asked Baal for permission to register for the 501©3 tax exempt status, then they threw Christ out of the church and became one with the system. Scripture says we can’t serve two masters, so see what they have done? Come out of her my people and touch not the unclean thing, she has become the habitation of every unclean thing. Revelations:18-4. The leaders sold themselves out for 30 pieces of silver instead of letting Christ be the head of the body. Shame on the leaders, judgment is beginning with you. You leaders have betrayed the sheep, woe to you! The church is supposed to be moving in power and authority, what a joke, you don’t see God moving in these dead churches, just a lot of talk and no power, from such turn away. Only the baptism in the Holy Spirit that we all need in order to do the works that Jesus did. He said, ye shall receive power , after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you, and ye shall be witnesses unto me. Acts 1:8. If we stay in dead churches and accept their dead dogma, we will be partakers of her sins, so we need to find a gathering of believers who are moving in the power and authority that Jesus gave us, if not , we need to gather in our homes and let God do what He wants to do, not what man wants to do. We need to bring back the Acts experience so the world can see that God is still on the throne and that He is alive, not dead, we need the gifts of the Spirit operating in order to bring people to Christ, without them we are a dead church, run from these dead churches and find one that is alive and moving in the gifts of the Spirit. Remember the scripture in Acts 1:5, Jesus said : For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the HOLY GHOST not many days hence. How clear is that? We need this baptizing in the Spirit or we cannot be effective for the Lord. There is nothing more glorious than to see God move amongst His people in a gathering, it is life-changing and brings us closer to Christ. Be ye doers of the word, not hearers only!

        • Peggy on October 28, 2018 at 4:37 pm

          I worried constantly about the fact that my mortgage and tithe offerings allowed me to pay no taxes. Finally, a loving sister took me aside and asked me if I was doing something illegal. Of course, I was not.

          Is a 501c3 illegal? No, it isn’t. The non-profit has rendered unto Caesar what Caesar legally requires.

          I do not believe the government would reject any extra money you feel personally obligated to send. However, If you have a neighbor that has kids and little money for school supplies or a backpack or have a favorite charity, couldn’t that extra money be put to better use?

          My church offers haircuts to children in the poorest school in my town. We purchase backpacks and school supplies and socks. At the Christmas holiday, we gather up a bundle of food supplies to keep the kids fed during the school break. This comes from gifts, not tithes . It’s a party atmosphere. The kids get an abundance of love, parents grateful and relieved and the church folks love the opportunity to help those who are in such need.

          Blessings on you!

          • Hilton on October 29, 2018 at 6:54 am

            Thanks Peggy for your input. That’s marvellous that your church is doing things like that in your community. I can’t say that many of the churches I belonged to in the past 50 years did anything like it. I wish they would have. I think what people are saying here is that they would rather belong to a living organism that is spontaneous, creative and being what He wants us to be. Unfortunately many churches end up being more like a corporation or robotic arm where most of the money goes to the few workers or as bank interest to the lenders for big buildings. They lord it over the people spending and directing the resources as they see fit. If we are wrong then we should see vibrant communities across the world growing an expanding in numbers fruit and love -shining forth the light and liberty of our dear Saviour. So many things that happen in the normal church each Sunday are not in the New Testament and most leaders and people are very unwilling to let go of them. God bless you as you seek Him and serve in your local community. Keep being the treasure that He wants us to be . Blessings to you too sister.



    • NE1 on October 24, 2018 at 3:07 pm

      none of yer business, while I don’t agree with your choice of words, I hear your heart and understand completely. I’m 49 and I’ve known The Lord for over 20 years. But for all of those years I have felt, not like a fish out of water, but a fish in outer space! I have longed for a church family to belong to but as of yet, I have not found one. After visiting many churches and staying at a few for a while, I have simply grown weary of ‘playing church.’ It’s unfortunate but it’s very difficult to find people who will cut the facade and just be normal and real.
      Yes, I know, “No church is perfect!”
      Yes, I know, ” You have to stop looking for the negatives and look at the positives.”
      Yes, I know, “Ask not what they church can do for you but ask what you can do for the church.”
      Yes, I know, “Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves….”
      Yada, Yada, Yada! I’ve heard it all and I could preach a sermon on the topic of your choice.

      A few years ago I felt like I was the only one who felt this way. Then I found out there’s a growing group of Christians called “The Dones,” as in done with Church (or done with playing church). Over the years, many times, rather than go to church, I will simply gather my family around the table, read the bible and pray.

      Keep in mind, I’m not advocating for Lone Ranger Christianity. I do want to become party of a group of Christians who love each other, honor God’s word and support each other. I just haven’t found it. I have been praying for over 20 years and until I find where The Lord wants me, where I don’t feel like a square peg in a round hole, I’ll keep praying, serving The Lord, sharing the Gospel, and searching.

      Blessings!

      • Heather kell on October 29, 2018 at 11:34 pm

        You can always set up your own Home Church ?

        I feel sorry for your experience and also your current attitude

        Follow Jesus and trust Him

    • Heather kell on October 29, 2018 at 11:31 pm

      I feel sorry for your experience and also your current attitude

      Follow Jesus and trust Him

    • Connie Anderson on October 31, 2018 at 12:25 pm

      I am sorry that you had such a terriable experience. Please don’t think that all Christians are bad spirited. And yes the devil is in the church. When you decide to pray and have God to lead you where he wants you to attend….you will have to keep your eyes on Jesus and not on flesh. God’s eyes are on you and you will only give an account for what you do. Do all things as you are doing them for Jesus. Don’t expect thanks and praises from people. Flesh will always let you down. GOD SEES YOU AND KNOWS YOUR HEART. HE SEES WHAT YOU DO. HE IS ELOHEIM. HE WILLL REWARD YOU. REBUCKE THE devil AND KEEP SERVING GOD!!!!! We need you to help show Jesus in this lost world. God bless you..

      • Dale on October 31, 2018 at 3:20 pm

        Well said Connie

      • fessdo on October 31, 2018 at 5:46 pm

        Connie,
        You said in your comment “HE WILL REWARD
        YOU”, my questions to you is how does God reward you, why would God reward you, and if God rewards does he also not reward some?

        • David Bressler on November 28, 2018 at 12:39 pm

          Perhaps with a greater inner peace or revelation about His Will and His nature. I truly doubt that Connie meant that your next lottery ticket would be a winner!

          • fessdo on November 28, 2018 at 2:01 pm

            D.B.
            That’s a sweet thought but I think old Connie was leaning more toward the lottery. The inner peace comes from knowing God’s not mad anymore and he’s not even in a bad mood cause Jesus took care of the sin problem. Matthew 20:28 in the Amplified Bible (AMP) just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many [paying the price to set them free from the penalty of sin].” I love where the AMP show what ransom means by adding “paying the price to set them free from the penalty of sin” now that’s inner peace knowing someone paid the price for me.



      • Stu on October 31, 2018 at 6:15 pm

        Well spoken Connie. We only need look at the life of Paul to see where his focus was—regardless of the circumstances. Blessings sister.

        • David Bressler on November 28, 2018 at 11:37 pm

          Amen, fessdo. We can NEVER EVER repay Jesus, no matter what we say or do, for what He did for us. He pulled our bacon out of the fire, no doubt and literally. We are TOTALLY SCREWED without Jesus. I don’t understand how anyone can live without His Love, Blessing and glorious SALVATION! When I have any doubt about the whole thing, I remember that HE DIDN’T HAVE TO SACRIFICE HIMSELF as he did. I wonder if people truly have any realization of what He went through for us. Want a clue? Hold your arms over your head for as long as you can.

          • Gregg Powers on November 29, 2018 at 12:28 pm

            If you really believe this David, then try to be faithful and live according to your calling. That is the point of scripture. The Modern Church has twisted the idea that one can believe in Jesus Christ and then live in opposition to God because works don’t matter. Just tell me now if you truly believe that nothing you do or don’t do have any effect on your salvation no matter whether you are intentionally sinning or unintentionally sinning.



    • David Bressler on November 26, 2018 at 2:04 pm

      Wow! None of yer business, you have said it better than I ever could about the pride, the envy, the hypocrisy and the arrogance of so many church leaders (and their congregations, as well).
      That is PRECISELY why I abandoned attending organized “churches”.
      I share better fellowship in Jesus with the guys at my athletic club. And, I like them more than the phony people I meet at “church”.
      Finally, Jesus has been fully faithful on His promise to me in Hebrews 13:5 (and his promise to you, and all in His chosen flock:
      “Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.” Jesus lives in my heart, all praise, glory and thanks to our Lord and Savior. He communicates with me through The Holy Spirit. “The flock knows the voice of The Shepherd.”
      If anything, attending the churches I’ve attended have been a stumbling block to my faith in Him.
      Thus, I avoid going to “church” like I avoid the plague, now.

      • Stu on November 29, 2018 at 11:49 am

        Hi David,

        I have read a few of your comments—and then came across this one. My very first comment on this site was written in bitterness because of a church I attended for 20 years. Jesus wants us to be involved with each other’s lives in fellowship, but I was not experiencing that, so I left. When I got here to this site, I saw even more people bitter in their struggle to defend leaving the Body of believers they came to know, but it was because of their bitterness I returned to being involved with God’s people in the “church.”.

        I learned that I did not meet with people for my sake, but for theirs. I did not go to sit in a pew because I felt better than all of those struggling around me. Jesus said he came to heal the sick, not the well. Of course he was being facetious because there is no one well enough not to need him. I am not suggesting that everyone stay around if there is not harmony, or if a pastor is preaching heresy, but I ask myself why Jesus—even in the Church at Thyatira, where there was sexual perversion being preached and practiced—never suggested anyone leave. Instead, he told those not holding on to those sins, and who had not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets that he would not impose any other burdens on them, only to hold on to what they had until he came.

        Jesus said he loved and died for his Church, that he did not want us to forsake the local assembly as some had been in the habit of doing. Jesus preached in the Temple everyday, even when there were dens of robbers and thieves. He did not leave, nor forsook them. I kind of get that impression today. We are around the same kind of people; only the times have changed. So, finally, I went back to a local gathering of believers—the Church body—and here I discovered I can be useful to others are bitter, who downtrodden, and who have fallen through the cracks like I once did. Just my 2 cents.

        • Son on November 29, 2018 at 10:15 pm

          My comments are bding blocked, Stu. Thanks for your feedback and response.
          I hope and pray to find a church that truly embodies The Spirit of our Lord jesus.
          I have not given up.
          If only I could find a church with congregation members like you, fessdo and Gregg!
          Pray for me, brother.

          God’s Peace and Blessing be upon you abundantly!

          Dave

          • Son on November 29, 2018 at 10:17 pm

            Lots of typos: being blocked, Lord Jesus.

            David Bressler



          • Stu on November 29, 2018 at 10:54 pm

            Thx Dave. I certainly will pray for you. Jesus said we should ask for wisdom and he would give it abundantly. But don’t worry if you find a church where you do not meet the kinds of people that might enrich you; seek a body of believers you can enrich. Love those who do not love you back, and your reward will be great Jesus says. When you toil to comfort others and are worn out, Jesus said he would comfort you. If everything we become is for the church instead of receive everything from it, we do just as Christ did; that is, become a servant. God will give you as many talents He thinks you can handle. Don’t bury them. He would not be pleased to give them if He did not believe you could not give Him a good return.

            Grace and peace.



        • Son on November 30, 2018 at 5:32 pm

          Thanks for the prayer and the wise, blessed advice, Stu. I certainly will take what you said into serious consideration. I hate sitting through a boring, stultifying sermon and then pretending to be social with a bunch of self-centered, self-serving people led by a small group of prideful, vain, know-it-all leaders who discard any knowledge The Lord has given to me, thinking that I am much lowlier and less entitled than they are and try to give me advice that doesn’t work for them and wouldn’t work for me. That is my problem in finding a church I can feel comfortable with attending and belonging. As I said earlier, if you, fessdo and Gregg were part of a local congregation, I’d belong to the church in a New York minute. You guys embody the brotherhood and true fellowship, the care and concern for a fellow child of Christ, with your exhortation and encouragement.
          God bless all three of you, Stu.

          Dave Bressler

      • Sara on January 11, 2019 at 1:13 pm

        This is how i feel also, dont forsake the body! Were is the body? I find my brothers and sisters in Christ not within the walls of so called organized Church’s!

        • Son on January 11, 2019 at 1:52 pm

          Hey, maybe you would find some “within the walls of so called organized Chursh’s”, too. You can’t condemn all but for a few. Might just be some decent, blessed bros and sisses within those walls. You can separate the wheat from the chaff.

          With His Love

          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 2:01 pm

            My dear sister Sara, I think our feelings about our life in Jesus can change. The pastor at the church I have now attended for about a month suggested that I need to try to see things through the eyes of Jesus.
            I can understand that and I am trying to follow that advice.

            Peace to you

            Dave



  21. Mike Jones on October 13, 2018 at 9:50 am

    >> how we should interact while we’re on this planet

    Learning Esperanto would greatly enhance planet-wide interaction.

  22. Beaver Cleaver on October 12, 2018 at 6:18 pm

    If you were born and raised a jew, you’d have been proving that Judaism is obviously the only possible truth, and that everything else is (without saying if as bluntly) obviously a meaningless pile of you-know-what. Fill in the blank with the name of any of the endless stream of current and dead fads – I mean, religions – in the history of the human race, and the same would be true. The part of every religion which is not said out loud, is that if you believe in our religion (and give us money please – it’s all tax deductable) you can do the worst things to anyone or thing, with no harm to yourself (if not detected and successfully prosecuted by law enforcement,) lead a life of evil, and as soon as you die, you’ll go to heaven and everything will be perfect for you forever, while if you don’t believe in our religion ( in which case, of course, you wouldn’t give us money) you can live a life of virtue and as soon as you die, you’ll go to hell and suffer forever. It can be kind of heartbreaking, and even take away your will to go on, to even seriously consider the possibility that you’ll never, ever again be with the people you love the most, not to mention that your own wonderful self will end in nothing, soon and forever. I hope not. That’s why religions have been invented and believed, or at least said to be believed, by most humans throughout the known history of humans. As in space there is actually no known up or down, in the spirit world there is no male or female. I think.

    • fessdo on October 12, 2018 at 6:55 pm

      Hey Beav,
      The truth is believing in religion will not get you in heaven, nor will living a life
      of virtue get you in the presents of God. It is only faith in Jesus Christ that will assure you a place in the kingdom of God for eternity.

      • Chris Hosmer on October 12, 2018 at 7:10 pm

        Fessdo,

        When Paul says “Faith in Jesus Christ”…I can see what he means.

        When Peter says “Faith in Jesus Christ”…I can see what he means.

        When Luther says “Faith in Jesus Christ”…I also see what he means.

        What do you mean by it?

        • fessdo on October 12, 2018 at 8:00 pm

          Faith that Jesus died to take away my sins.

          What can wash away my sin?
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
          What can make me whole again?
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

          Oh! precious is the flow
          That makes me white as snow;
          No other fount I know,
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

          For my pardon this I see–
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
          For my cleansing this my plea–
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus!

          Nothing can my sin erase
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
          Naught of works, ’tis all of grace–
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus!

          This is all my hope and peace–
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
          This is all my righteousness–
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus!

          • Gregg Powers on October 12, 2018 at 10:51 pm

            the key is to know what true faith is. it is not simply an intellectual belief, at least not according to scripture. it is the type that transforms one’s life. i remind you that both the Israelites leaving Egypt and the Demons leaving Heaven both had faith, just not the faith to obey as scripture says………

            It is why we must ensure we don’t hear the fateful words of our Lord “Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what I say?” These are people that acknowledge Him as Lord, but refuse to obey…….

            if we truly believe we can fly, we have no trouble jumping off a tall building. if we truly believe in Jesus, we submit to our Lord. this is true faith…..



          • fessdo on October 13, 2018 at 6:53 am

            So many people will not see the kingdom of God because some person has made salvation so complicated. If I miss it I want to be one of the ones that miss it by making it to simple.
            But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, YOU WILL BE SAVED. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:8-10
            With Jesus you don’t need a key he is the key.



          • David Bressler on November 26, 2018 at 10:25 pm

            I love you, fessdo. That was BEAUTIFUL in it’s truth, holiness and blessedness.
            Jesus must really love you a lot to have given you those words, my brother.
            God bless you!

            Your brother in Christ Jesus,

            Dave



          • fessdo on November 26, 2018 at 10:29 pm

            He loved me enough to die for me in order to take away all my sins.



      • Gregg Powers on October 30, 2018 at 10:58 am

        While this is completely true, a true and saving faith manifests itself in obedience and in works bringing glory to our Lord. This is where the Holy Spirit leads. The Bible does not teach we can believe and then act anyway we desire…….

        • David Bressler on November 26, 2018 at 10:28 pm

          @fessdo – I was referring to these words of you when I said “I love you, fessdo.” Just to clarify.
          Faith that Jesus died to take away my sins.

          What can wash away my sin?
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
          What can make me whole again?
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

          Oh! precious is the flow
          That makes me white as snow;
          No other fount I know,
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

          For my pardon this I see–
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
          For my cleansing this my plea–
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus!

          Nothing can my sin erase
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
          Naught of works, ’tis all of grace–
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus!

          This is all my hope and peace–
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus!
          This is all my righteousness–
          Nothing but the blood of Jesus!

        • David Bressler on November 26, 2018 at 10:47 pm

          John 14:15-31

          Amen, Gregg.

          God bless you, my brother!

          Dave

      • Gregg Powers on November 28, 2018 at 3:27 pm

        and yet my friend fessdo, you don’t believe scripture, you believe the religion of man……

        • fessdo on November 28, 2018 at 5:27 pm

          Gregg,
          Why are you so bitter against Jesus after all he’s done for you? I pray that you receive the gift that Jesus provided for you over 2000yrs ago and stop trying to work your way to God’s grace cause it’s free for the taking, just receive it.

          • Gregg Powers on November 28, 2018 at 5:43 pm

            Nice try; am profoundly grateful to Jesus. Has nothing to do with working for God’s grace, it is the proper response by someone who understands what Jesus has done….



          • fessdo on November 28, 2018 at 6:30 pm

            Gregg,
            ,,profoundly grateful to Jesus,, and it shows?

            out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks



          • Gregg Powers on November 29, 2018 at 12:52 pm

            here was your comment from below

            I didn’t answer him because he would have never understood but to be honest the statement is true. The thing “under the law people” don’t get is that when you receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior you receive a super natural love for not only God but also for people and it’s so powerful that you no longer want to sin, you don’t want to steal, you don’t want to judge, your don’t want to kill, you have this forgiving nature and mercy for people even when they do you wrong. In a way Jesus’s love changes your desirer [want] to sin, so yes you can sin all you want but you just don’t want to. Being human try as we might we will miss it but thanks to God we have Jesus.

            Surprisingly we are on the same page UNTIL the sentence that says “yes, you can sin all you want”. That is the lie of the evil one. There is a difference scripturally between unintentional and willful sin. I will repeat what Hebrews 10:26-27 says “For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries” Here Jesus is no longer a sacrifice for those wilfully sinning (which you have said is okay). Rejecting what God tells us to do is sin. Not loving others is sin. Doing what God tells us not to is sin. We make those choices. Yes the Holy Spirit leads away from sin but it is our choice whether we submit to the Holy Spirit…….



          • fessdo on November 29, 2018 at 1:44 pm

            Gregg,
            You left out the first part where I wrote,,
            Gregg said in one comment to me
            “So I want to restate what you are saying before the Lord. You claim that once you have accepted Jesus Christ, you can live in as much sin as you like and God will be fine with it, still welcoming you into His kingdom”,,,

            The question of the day is this , how many good works did the thief on the cross do?



          • Gregg Powers on November 29, 2018 at 1:56 pm

            Are you saying the thief on the cross was in the same situation as we are? Absolutely not. He was as faithful as He could be given his situation. So is the person who truly comes to belief in Christ on their deathbed. But there is a difference as Hebrews 11 shows. The Holy Spirit, if in us, leads us to obey. Leads us to hate sin. Leads us to love others. Those who refuse to do the works the Holy Spirit leads us in are simply grieving and quenching the Holy Spirit……..



          • fessdo on November 29, 2018 at 3:29 pm

            Gregg,
            If works is a prerequisite to entering the kingdom then Jesus would have told him “well believing in me is a start but you need a few good works, yell down to those soldiers and tell them you forgive them for all they’re doing and then if you have any stolen money hide tell the poorest looking one where it is so he can have it, then pray a really sincere prayer to God but it’s got to be from the heart and be sure to add forgive me of all my sins, also add A man or in him or something real religious sounding”.



          • Gregg Powers on November 29, 2018 at 5:45 pm

            Friend. Works are EVIDENCE of our faith. They in and of themselves do not save in ANY way. But we are hypocrites (and do not truly believe) if we claim to believe yet refuse God and what He teaches. This is what you keep defending. According to your teaching why would it matter if we later denied Christ? What difference would it be if we murdered people? When you have time, look up George Sodini, read his blog and let me know if you believe He is with the Lord even now. For “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”



          • fessdo on November 29, 2018 at 6:58 pm

            Gregg,
            Only God knows the heart of George Sodini but according to the word if he was a born again believer he is cover by the blood of Jesus. Jesus paid his sin debt, He took George’s sin and gave him His righteousness. [2 Corinthians 5:21] So when he stood before God, God only saw the righteousness of Jesus not the sins of George. To you Jesus is no hero, you think His death was only good for those on there death bed and for us poor living folks we’re on our own having to work our daily good works to stay in right standing with God. So in your book the best we could hope for is to die right after being born again, if not we’ll have to continue living under the curse of the law as they did in the old testament. As for me I’m choosing the new and improved testament and cause there I’m free from the curse of the law. Galatians 3:13 (KJV) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree.



          • Gregg Powers on November 30, 2018 at 1:58 am

            paying for sins is NOT forgiveness of sins forgiveness requires a humble and repentant heart. remember scripture says Jesus paid for the sins of the entire world. if your logic held, all would be saved if paying for sins was the only requirement. you keep claiming i work for it which i don’t. i respond to where the spirit leads. you however are committed against that because you think that anything you do is a work and means works based salvation.. don’t do Satan’s work for him. you are already misleading other Christians….hoping you find the truth. we need not keep debating this as i cannot see you following all scripture…..



        • David Bressler on November 28, 2018 at 11:41 pm

          Gregg – I really don’t get that from fessdo. Why do you say he “believes the religion of man”? fessdo strikes me, based upon what he has said, as being totally immersed in the Holy Spirit of Jesus, covered by His Sacred Blood, committed to serving our Lord and living in accordance with The Holy Will of God.

          • fessdo on November 29, 2018 at 9:01 am

            David,
            Thanks for your comment and it’s good to know I’m now alone in believing that Jesus was the answer to our sin problem. I heard a speaker years ago say that “God can use anyone to get the good news out about Jesus” and as I get older I see he was right. God has used my friend Gregg these last few months in a way he doesn’t realize. If Gregg had never commented on my comments then the people would have missed out on what God had to say about Jesus, grace, mercy, love, and faith.
            Gregg said in one comment to me
            “So I want to restate what you are saying before the Lord. You claim that once you have accepted Jesus Christ, you can live in as much sin as you like and God will be fine with it, still welcoming you into His kingdom”
            I didn’t answer him because he would have never understood but to be honest the statement is true. The thing “under the law people” don’t get is that when you receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior you receive a super natural love for not only God but also for people and it’s so powerful that you no longer want to sin, you don’t want to steal, you don’t want to judge, your don’t want to kill, you have this forgiving nature and mercy for people even when they do you wrong. In a way Jesus’s love changes your desirer [want] to sin, so yes you can sin all you want but you just don’t want to. Being human try as we might we will miss it but thanks to God we have Jesus.



          • Gregg Powers on November 29, 2018 at 12:31 pm

            Because he rejects needing to live consistent with your faith (that is faithfully) as works which is what men, but not scripture teaches. It is why I had to write the book. The way i see it, there are going to be large numbers of “Christians” that are going to hear the fateful words of Jesus “Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what i say?”



          • Gregg Powers on November 29, 2018 at 1:19 pm

            You did note he said, yes, we can sin all we want right? But here is the issue. Most people who don’t want to focus on avoiding sin or on doing the will of God are those who are secretly in some sinful lifestyle or who are committed to live their lives their way instead of God’s way. Most often these are those that claim they believe in Jesus while living in rebellion to Him. They raise grace above all else while ignoring scripture that teaches us to live faithfully (avoid bad works and do good works) in the power of the Holy Spirit. I cannot claim that fessdo is this way; I don’t know the person. Even if i did i could not discuss such here. What i do know is that the Holy Spirit leads us away from sin, it leads us to works that bring glory to our God. God Bless……



          • Gregg Powers on November 29, 2018 at 6:02 pm

            David, you are of great worth in the eyes of God. Never forget that. It is why He sent His son to die for us…..in Him



    • Peggy on October 28, 2018 at 5:51 pm

      My brother, may I ask if you consider yourself a follower or desciple of Jesus? Christian means many things these days. It’s important now for you to know Jesus Christ as your friend and redeemer.

      Have you come to faith in Jesus, believe that he died for your sins and rose to life again, and repented of your sins?

      The “churches” you describe above are religious. Jesus is a relationship. You recognized they were about religion and not a relationship with our Lord and you walked away.

      Faith in and a relationship with Jesus are the greatest gifts you can be given to go on in this crazy world. Get a bible. I recommend an English Standard Version. Start reading it. It will make no sense at first, but you can talk to Jesus any time you want to.
      Any question or bad feeling you might have, ask Jesus to help you understand and guide you through it. Nothing is too big or to insignificant for Him.

      He will help you understand your bible. Start with Psalms or Proverbs. Move on to the first four books in the New Testament. They will tell you the stories of Jesus ministry and his 12 desciples.

      Pray. Talk to Him as though He is next to you, because He is. Tell Him your troubles. Tell Him you need a good bible believing church. Begin visiting churches. You already know what some of the bad ones are like. Be very careful.

      I’m going to suggest that you live stream a Sunday teaching from a pastor Jack Hibbs. Google Calvary Chapel Chino Hills. Services are at 7:15, 9:30 and 12:00 PST. He really teaches the bible. I want you to know what to look for in a church.

      Forget about the up or down universe and whether spirit is male or female. They sound like a New Age “church.” They will not teach you the bible. They are much worse than the churches you have already been to.

      I pray you will come to faith in Jesus and get to know Him. I will pray with you that you will find a church that will have someone to to teach you everything a new believer needs to know. May God lead and bless you abundantly! Peggy

      • fessdo on October 28, 2018 at 9:12 pm

        What an original comment “another mega church with all the right answers” now why didn’t I think of that? Oh you forgot to add Jack takes online contributions plus you can count them off you taxes, who could ask for anything more.

        • David Bressler on November 26, 2018 at 10:33 pm

          @fessdo
          “What an original comment “another mega church with all the right answers” now why didn’t I think of that? Oh you forgot to add Jack takes online contributions plus you can count them off you taxes, who could ask for anything more.”
          Like I said before, you have a terrific sense of humor. LOVE IT! LOLOL!
          Unless I misunderstood your point, I gather that you don’t believe in the word of man, only the Holy Word of God. There are many wolves out there looking to fleece the sheep, for sure. “Jack takes online contributions.” lol

          • David Bressler on November 26, 2018 at 10:41 pm

            Actually, Calvery Chapel in the city of Maricopa, Arizona was one of the hypocritical, self-serving churches that I once attended until Jesus opened my eyes and got me out of there.
            One of the pastors tried to forbid my wife and I from donating Christmas garland to needy congregation member near Christmas season because “we didn’t first ask permission” from the pastors. We laughed at them and the free garland was snapped up in about 2 minutes. Reminded me of the Pharisees forbidding Jesus to preach in their temple. I think Calvary Chapel was founded by a guy named “Frisbee”. My wife and I call it, “The Church of Frisbee.” My golden retriever wants to join. You should see her catch a frisbee!



      • David Bressler on November 29, 2018 at 10:50 am

        God gives us the power to overcome sin when it becomes more important to please God than to please yourself.

        • Gregg Powers on November 29, 2018 at 12:54 pm

          exactly: gives US the power to overcome sin.

  23. His Child on October 8, 2018 at 6:39 am

    I came looking for expierence, strength, hope, and a little insight and all I found was this reprehisble piece of garbage. I don’t say that to be hateful, but by reading your opinion piece, it’s clear that you do not understand at all why people leave “church.”
    My parents were both active authoritarians in the church growing up. We were there everytime the doors opened. Didn’t own a radio or tv till I was about 9…… we were the epitome of conservative christian.
    Today, I haven’t been to church in over 10 years, and i’ d rather eat glass than have my children expierence the pure heresy, and dated corporate methods of “showing God’s love & doing his will,” the way most of these churches do. Ill leace with one of my favorite instructions…….
    “I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.”
    Romans 16:17

    • fessdo on October 8, 2018 at 7:36 am

      H. C.
      Ever notice the people who know a lot about church have more trouble than those who don’t? I guess Ecclesiastes 1:18 is right, “For in much wisdom is much grief and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow”.

      • Stu on October 8, 2018 at 7:57 am

        Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
        18 For with much wisdom comes much sorrow; the more knowledge, the more grief.

        • Stu on October 8, 2018 at 8:01 am

          Ecclesiastes 1:18 (KJV)
          18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

          I thought the difference was interesting.

  24. Hilton on September 27, 2018 at 2:55 am

    For my friend Carey and pastors and leaders of churches in Brisbane Australia and all over the planet.

    Nailing it on religions door. Luther did it and MUCH more needs to be done…….

    I’m no Luther but I plead with my brothers and sisters to consider the following. I plead with myself to grapple with it wherever I am.

    Below is a list of traditions not found in scripture that have been invented by men. While these people who love Sunday Church throw one liners at the so called “hurt” or “rebellious people” – will they listen and grapple with the traditions, junk and lies that they want us to jump into willy nilly. I’ve looked for local assembly of the so called “body of Christ” that would try -Just indicate they are trying to address ANY of the following glaring issues. Prove to me they aren’t the false church when they embrace (or fail to embrace) the stuff I talk about below.

    1. The big meeting is always on Sunday. Why not meet on Thursday night and go away together for the weekend to be the real family where you can really get to know people. Don’t bring up Wednesday night as the “extra time” for body ministry and all the other things missing on Sunday. Most Wednesday nights are just a copy of Sunday anyway.

    2. The calendar is full of Easter and Christmas and all the stuff around it. One worships a baby and the other calls the festival after the Goddess of fertility nullifying the sign of Jonah with only two days and nights between Friday and Sunday. Bible verses please -at least stick to Passover.

    3. On Websites all over the world you can read doctrinal statements BUT where are the instructions on how to abide, meditate, sing and act in faith towards our Saviour. Coming along to know the pastor seems more important with bios and histories instead of knowing how to know, love and obey the Lord through His Spirit. Mental assent to doctrines is no substitute for a rich heart felt faith working by love.

    4. Tell me that God has told you to have a women’s ministry, children’s ministry or old peoples club. Or did you start them because “that’s what we have always done” , the denominations says we should, or God hasn’t told us not to. Where is a church that will let God build his church and that won’t move until a plurality of leadership has heard from heaven. Why is it that part of the most important parts of the Body of Christ is hived away from everybody else where their input and expression is never heard by the others? For of such IS the kingdom of God. I’m talking about the children. I’ve been a children’s pastor and these folk can hear important things from the Lord. Why do we fragment the body into groups to be held at differing times? I’m not saying it is wrong -I am asking people to “ask the Lord” about what he thinks of all this effort. Is it producing what he is expecting? Should we be splitting up families at all during the week?

    5. Money. Why are only a few or just one in so called full time ministry? Where is the room for body ministry. Has the Holy Spirit got any chance of breaking into your written order of service? Is the bulk of the finance collected ending up in bank coffers or real estate that gets used a few times a week? Are people taught wrongly that if they do works (give) then their abundance in life rests on that? Is there a place to really put money into things that do truly advance the kingdom? The moderns churches track record for local assemblies is amazing when you examine the holes that most of the money goes into.

    6. How long does the Clergy – Laity thing have to keep on going? Why is the term pastor mentioned so little in the new testament? When can somebody else pray for the sick, teach, give counsel or encouragement if they are not part of the normally very small ministry team? The answer is often the car park. When will true God anointed and appointed 5 fold ministry be birthed and activated in His body. There are many counterfeits in this area. When will these leaders be chosen on the grounds of fruit (and not gifting) as clearly shown forth in the New testament scriptures that explain the true qualifications for ministry (elders, deacons etc) Why is it that the “rest of us” can only minister through filling communion cups, collecting offerings, moving furniture, singing or running childrens work? Got some scriptures for this practice? (all geared towards an hour or two on a Sunday)

    7. Where is the ear? How are you trying to hear from God? My sheep hear my voice. Where and when is the time to hear from God? Who is hearing from God? Where and when is this precious information being given to His body? Whats steps are being taken to DO what he has said? Show me the list of what God has said to your group in the past five years and explain to me how and when you tired to obey? Do you really believe that you hear His voice and that you will not follow a strangers voice? What is the father telling you to do?Jesus only did what His father told him to do. Be prepare for some blank stares if you ever ask this one.

    8. Do people really believe that Christ dwells in their hearts by faith? Do you see ample evidence of people taking on their daily tasks with the belief that they can do all things through Christ. That they have all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge in Him. That they are rejoicing so much because he has already granted them everything pertaining to life and Godliness. Are they actively believing and seeking for His righteousness so they can boldly approach the throne of grace for help and favour in time of need? Or are they looking at themselves as sinners not good enough for Gods bountiful supply? Do they truly believe that our of their belly is flowing rivers of living water? Are they trying to believe these things or grapple with them on a daily basis? If not why not? I can honestly say that some people do believe these things but we need to labour so Christ is formed in all who believe.

    9. Why can’t fellow believers use a telephone? If those that do the will of God truly are my brothers and sisters then why can’t we all ring each other? I can honestly say that in fifty years of going to church I have had two people that I visited (or they visited me) or rang me on a regular basis. In those 50 years I doubt I had 50 phone calls. My last pastor verbally dressed me down asking why I left (at least 6 months afterwards) at the local Macdonalds restaurant. Why did he wait for this chance meeting? After 11 years he could not ring and ask? Nobody else could either. Ditto for the three churches before that too. I got rung by one where the people were paid to ring through the non attenders data base. If being part of the body of Christ (that should be one of the best things on the planet) is as wonderful as I think it should be then why can’t they try to be a real friend. We will love you while you attend but after that we forget you. Thank God HE does not forget me. Why can’t the Body be like the Head? -just a little bit? one phone call? Love shows no partiality ever. I try to visit believers I once knew but they don’t understand why I am doing it when I don’t go to their church anymore.

    10. Is worship really just about singing and the stage show that seems to go with it? If your 30 in Australia then you are probably too old to be on the worship team. Isn’t presenting my body a living sacrifice doing reasonable worship? Isn’t all that I do supposed to be worship unto the Lord? Do all things as unto the Lord. A church “service” just sounds like a car service. You go in get a grease, oil and filter change, coolant top up and some new spark plugs and in two hours you’re back on the road again. The church “service” though runs out by midday Monday and you need something else. When will we meet multiple times a week to pray, eat, sing, and encourage one another to a real lifetime of worship? You might say that I can’t make it once let alone multiple times. Try attempting to fix just a tenth of the above and I will be the first through the door. Don’t invite me to the same old useless traditions that are of no effect. Don’t add stuff that is not in the bible. There is plenty to do there. Only add what HE tells you to do. Then you can’t go wrong. Lets all think long and hard about what real love looks like. His love. His love NEVER fails. The non believers in my street and the folk in my motorhome club are far better at contacting me and “having a chat” than any church folk that I spent 10 years with. We have a mighty God that longs to express HIS love and goodness through all believers.

    I wait with patience and anticipation……

    • fessdo on September 27, 2018 at 7:35 am

      Hilton,
      You will have to change some things to be a good member of todays churches. Here’s a list to become a good member.
      1. Never read your bible on your own or better yet never pack one.
      2. Let the only pastor read the word for the service.
      3. Never question the pastor’s interpterion of the word.
      4. Never ask questions about a verse you heard during the week.
      5. Enjoy music for at least 45mins that shakes the floor next door.
      6. Do not say God told me,,,,.
      7. Dress extra fancy on Easter.
      8. Don’t expect the name Jesus said during the service.
      9. Only give your option if it shows how more money will come in to pastor or church.
      10. Don’t think only tithing is going to cut it, you will be reminded of this often.

    • LionessofGod on October 19, 2018 at 7:06 pm

      There is a Bible study I did a few years ago, and it is one of the most eye-opening studies I’ve ever done. It is called “Behold Our God.” You might like it. It is pretty critical of the modern day church, and I loved it. You aren’t the only one frustrated…

      • Gregg Powers on October 30, 2018 at 11:00 am

        I just finished my book as well: Pulpit Fiction: How the Modern Church is Endangering the Eternal Destiny of its Followers. It is also critical, largely on a doctrinal level.

        • Dale on October 30, 2018 at 11:12 pm

          You are right Greg. We strive to enter the rest to cease from our labours and to enter into His. Without the direction of the spirit of God our works could be placating men or wood, hay and stubble. We must do what our Father tells us -because we are the body of Christ -Jesus did the same. My sheep hear my voice and a stranger’s voice they will not follow. Make sure the religious voices you follow arent strange!

        • David Bressler on November 28, 2018 at 12:46 pm

          From the fwiw dept.
          I, also, wrote a book. It’s a novel titled “SON – Saved From Myself”.
          You can buy it for 99 cents on Amazon. In case you are curious.

          Dave Bressler aka David Appleton

          • Son on November 30, 2018 at 1:04 pm

            Actually, the ebook is available on Google.
            Google “SON – Saved From Myself” David Appleton



  25. Judy on September 26, 2018 at 8:04 am

    People have been brainwashed by this Christian cult for centuries. Just think what if a man walked around and said he was the son of god now a days. And did you notice every time someone wanted to go and take a look at this mysterious unseen being that the person would tell them Oh no you cannot go up there with me because you will get burned up. The bible was made up of over 40 jews. the whole bible was written by jews. Have you ever wonder how in the world they wrote the conversation exactly as the people have them. Were they standing right beside the person they were describing talking. The being I know that created us is for more powerful than us humans. We cannot comprehend what the creator is. I do believe we were created but not by some invisible man that no one can see and he tells these Israelite to murder men woman children and animals. How could anyone in their right mind even believe that a loving god as he was described was telling these different men who were going around telling people if they do not follow this invisible god hey will burn in hell it is so ridiculous it is crazy. No one was believing them anymore so they had to produce a man to be born and he was born to a virgin. Yeah right. Do you believe this crap. then over a 1500 year span these different men who didn’t even live in the time of Moses and Jesus are writing the bible I do not believe any of it. My creator is so magnificent that you cannot even phantom what he would look like. Why has all of the religious talk stop.?? Why ?? Oh because Jesus came down to save us all from the wrath of this mysterious god noone has seen. Another thing do you think if this god was so powerful and perfect he would of created angels or humans who would disobey him the bible has separated people be. accuse of all of the different beliefs why then did this god write the bible so all could understand instead of making it out of riddles. I will tell you cause men wrote the book and didn’t have any clue what they were talking about. Today there are no miracles no messages from angels nothing the heavens got really quite. Start listening to your heart the person who created you will talk to you in your soul no out in public We were born with a conscious even little kids no right from wrong before they are even taught. And do you really believe that this Jesus fellow died and then came back down and then went back up. this church is a way to get your hard earned money and split us humans up. I believe when we die we will be revealed the reason we are here. We are a part of the universe that our creator made. He isn’t wlking around speaking in tounges

    • fessdo on September 26, 2018 at 8:28 pm

      Judy,
      What’s your creator’s name?

    • Stu on September 26, 2018 at 9:58 pm

      Hi Judy. I’m not here to convince you of anything. I can only share I was an atheist for 20 years who pretty much felt as you do. I was bitter, skeptical, arrogant, and who raised my fists defiantly in the air toward even the idea of there being a god of the bible. I studied Physics and Mathematics, and was all too certain that how I thought was closer to reality than some “mumbo-jumbo” written by a bunch of ignorant men. But something happened. I thought about what occurs when the atheist loses his footing; that is to say, you cannot test a bridge by sending a cat over it, but a train. I saw that every time the atheist was tested, the burden of his circumstances could not hold up, and they would collapse under his own weight. He had no real argument why he should not believe. Even Lenin on his deathbed cried out to Christ.

      I was invited to the home of the Dean of the Mathematics Department to discuss my disgust for this made-up concept of God. But I quickly discovered he was a believer —a follower of Jesus. How could this be? He was a brilliant man, and someone whose logic was flawless. He too was once an atheist, but after reading the Bible, he admitted he was transformed, saying, “It was because of the very logic of the Gospel that I was compelled to believe it.” The logic? Yet even God tells us to “Come now, and let us reason together.”

      Israel, in Old Testament times, was a very superstitious nation of people. God chose that time to invade their lives. He did not come to convince them how far behind the times they were. He did not tell them the Earth was not flat, or that a man would eventually land on the moon. He came as a Figure of authority and power so that He would be believed. Can you, instead of imagining He is not real, imagine He is?

      So, as I shared in the beginning with you, I am not here to transform you of anything. Simply, I cannot do that. I do not have that kind of power. I wish I had the opportunity to learn about you and why you really feel the way you do. When I look into the mirror, I am neither shy nor arrogant. I am not afraid of learning from others. You said, “My creator is so magnificent that you cannot even phantom what he would look like.” Describe what he is like to you Judy.

    • Eulogy4TheLiving on September 29, 2018 at 4:54 pm

      Um, Luke wasn’t Jewish and he wrote the gospel that bears his name and most of Acts. So, just correcting that. Peace

    • Hilton on October 4, 2018 at 2:52 am

      My dear friend Judy,
      If you think that the organised church (the one that you see) is the full representation of what Jesus died for then I can easily forgive you for thinking that He was after money and splitting people up. We are a part of the universe that our creator made and I have to agree that he isn’t walking around speaking in tongues. The reason why people do that is to speak mysteries in the spirit
      (1 Cor14:2) For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

      The creator doesn’t have to do that because in Him are already the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. So you are right there. The truth is that Jesus told us to guard against many forms of greed -not just one.

      “Start listening to your heart the person who created you will talk to you in your soul no out in public We were born with a conscious even little kids no right from wrong before they are even taught”

      I have to agree with this statement too because that’s how you listen to the real creator. The problem is Judy is that there can be many voices and few bother to be quiet enough to do it. The very nature of human history teaches us that some of the leaders who listened to any voice did many bad things -in fact ancient and modern history is littered with people listening to wrong voices. I can state categorically that there have been many people who proclaim they are “christian” but have gone on to do diabolical things in the name of God. But what if there are opposing forces that can be easily seen in everyday life and history that people can listen to? Some working for good and others bad. How can we be sure that we are listening to the right force and voice? jesus taught and showed there was an enemy. One that tried to rub Him out. If there are enemies out there then isn’t it reasonable to assume that some of them are going to actively infiltrate the real and help them to do bad to give the real a bad name and turn people away from them? The real way to turn good people is to teach them good truths that attract them and then subtly inject lies bit by bit into this new truth. What if some of these enemies have been studying human nature for thousands of years and now they try tricking you and me who have been learning about human nature for 40 years. I can assure you that the real church is not having money and greed problems and that they love each other as Jesus taught. They are in this world but I doubt you will find them in a congregation on a street corner down the road from you. God did create people who could choose to disobey Him. He loves us that much. If we all obeyed Him we would all be mindless robots loving Him because that was the only inbuilt program. Who wants to be loved by somebody who can’t choose any other way. We could program a rasberry pi computer for less than $100 to say all the most lovely things to you but somebody who chooses to stay with you the rest of their life through free will -only then is it really true love. Why not ask the creator what his name is? Why not ask Jesus to be real to you. What you find out might be totally opposite to what you have seen and heard.

    • Gregg Powers on October 30, 2018 at 11:01 am

      Yes. We believe those things but the evidence is overwhelming they are true. If you want the proof, let me know……

  26. Prefer to be Anonymous on September 26, 2018 at 12:56 am

    This is something that’s been on my heart…I’m seriously considering posting this on Facebook…in some ways it could hurt people I care about; but in another sense I think it could also shed light on a very serious problem in church and could be the wake-up call the church needs and a light to those who have been hurt. So this is the post:

    So this is going to be a tough topic. For the past 14 years I’ve considered myself a Christian/believer in Jesus. My story is probably unlike any other story you’ve ever heard. But the problem is it’s also exactly like every other story you’ve ever heard. I want to be careful what I say here, because the truth is, there are some Christians out there who are extremely loving unconditionally. But the vast majority are just people who hurt people, don’t accept that they are in fact hurting and harming people.
    From the first week I walked into a church this has been true.
    The very first week I walked into a church, my only Christian friend told me there was nothing in the Bible that said we have to be friends (which actually isn’t true: Do not forsake your friend or a friend of your family, and do not go to your relative’s house when disaster strikes you– better a neighbor nearby than a relative far away. Proverbs 28:10; “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. – Matthew 5:23). I asked this person if I had done anything wrong, and she said no, I was just being myself. So I have done nothing wrong but must be excluded.
    A lot of people quote Romans 12:8 saying as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone, in order to justify ending friendships, for whatever minor or major reason they have, no matter how small or big. but notice the difference in context. In Matthew, Jesus is speaking to believers. In Romans, Paul is talking about non-christian Roman soldiers trying to kill Christians. Very big difference.
    So I took a hit, somehow I still kept going. This was the first week, and already experienced the hate, I tried the whole “forgiving without reconciling thing” because apparently that’s the Christlike thing to do.
    I’ll be honest…college was probably one of the better times when it came to church and church events. I’m not really sure why. But I did see one thing that made an incredible difference and did give me hope. Our campus crusade on some nights would contain catholics, mormons, presbyterians, pentecostals, all different denominations. The division that so many people raged against was just gone.
    But when I went back home, things weren’t so crystal clear. I began trying out other churches. The first church I went to in this period, I was met by a former coworker, who came up to me and said I should leave and find a different church. I asked if I had done anything wrong. Still no answers.
    So I did, I found another church. I had been dating a girl and found out she cheated on me, so I yelled at her. And even then I tried blaming myself and apologizing and reconciling. In this case it was even brought to the pastor and apparently she said she would leave if I continued going there, and the pastor said even though he agreed with me, asked me to leave until she left and then I could come back.
    So I left and found another church. This church quite frankly seemed fantastic. Everybody was loving caring. They encouraged me to get involved, serve, and I did, and this all went on for years, without a hint of negativity. When it all came crashing down. When in fact the pastor’s own family came to me, called me barely tolerable, and when I tried to work things out was told my feelings are not their “responsibility.” Well actually…let’s think of an example. If someone is driving recklessly, and damages your property, whose responsible? The owner, or the reckless driver? The driver is the one who is LIABLE, right? So when you leave emotional scars on someone, it actually is entirely your responsibility to fix it. I tried reaching out to both pastors to get an explanation for some biblical support for their boundaries belief, genuinely wanting to give them a chance. I was ignored. I asked them this because I discovered articles proving the authors of boundaries encouraged people to get divorced within 5 minutes of talking to one person, and making fun of less fortunate people.
    And this was the final straw for me. If you can’t love the emotional person whose only issue is he wants to be loved and accepted, then you sure as heck you can’t love the atheist, the drunk, the drug addict, or anyone else. Because here’s the harsh truth: That person might be transformed, and stop drinking let’s say. But the minute you reject him from your life, guess where he’s right back to? Drinking. If someone’s issue is they want to be loved by the church, and the church can’t love that person, then what are you even doing?
    So this is my way of saying I no longer wish to be associated with Christians. I’m still on the fence about whether or not I believe in God/Jesus, but the pain and damage caused to me by the church over the years has been more than enough reason to stop going. Maybe my boundary needs to be the church itself.
    And please understand, there are a few of you who have been incredible, please understand that, like anything else, there are exceptions to this, and you probably know who you are and please know that this is not really directed at you. I do love the people who genuinely loved me, but what’s hard is knowing that I love the people who don’t love me, but I can’t put myself in a position knowing you’re actively telling people God loves them while still hating someone who genuinely loved you.

    • fessdo on September 26, 2018 at 7:37 am

      Anonymous,
      You either had a bunch of pastors that was ball less, or they wasn’t the brightest bulb in the tanning bed, or they had the same problem as you. Your answer was in the last paragraph of your comment,,,,
      “I do love the people who genuinely loved me”. What good is it to be able to just love the lovable, even Charles Manson could do that. Read, study, and stay in the 12th chapter of Romans for about a year and then you could have people stone you and it would not effect your love for THEM. Just forgiving the forgivable is what comes natural but to walk higher you must forgive the unforgivable then love them TOO. The reason you’re jumping from church to church is because they’re full of natural people who only love those that keep loving them and the moment you stop loving them they stop loving you and you leave. Wisdom is knowing what’s going to happen before it does, so if you know the nature of people you’ll be able to overcome any thing they throw at you.

      • Anonymous on September 26, 2018 at 9:23 am

        You dont seem to get the common theme that it isnt just that they dont love me. These are Christian’s telling me they dont want me at church, including a pastors family. If they keep hurting me and always tell me to leave AND are saying they can’t tolerate me, then why bother going?

        • fessdo on September 26, 2018 at 11:01 am

          Just to piss them off.
          If you know that they really don’t want you there then go till they call the cops or till they see they’re wrong. But after they see their faults and apologize then leave them without giving them any excuse. God maybe using you to straighten them out, just get a little thick skinned and know you’re not fighting the people it’s the devil in them that your after.

        • Heather kell on October 30, 2018 at 12:32 am

          Very odd
          I’ve been a Christian 46 years
          Been in variety of churches

          Never been asked to leave one yet !!

          Maybe just double check there is nothing you are doing to exacerbate the situation ?

          If your heart is right
          Forgive and start a Home Church yourself

    • Chris Hosmer on September 26, 2018 at 7:52 am

      Anonymous,

      Please dont rely on how church or others behave before you evaluate Christ.

      Go into the desert, as Paul did. Lock yourself away from distractions.

      Then sit down and read through the conversations of Christ until you get a sense of where He is coming from.

      Then what you believe about Jesus will be based on what He says, not on anything else.

    • Gregg Powers on September 26, 2018 at 12:21 pm

      First, let me apologize on behalf of us all. But please, please don’t make the mistake of judging or viewing God based on our behavior. God exists, Jesus exists. He loves you more than you can know. He died for all of us. While the Modern Church has significant problems, we must remember the words of Jesus “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” Jesus knows that He will find all sorts of hypocrites within the Body of Christ and is able to know who they are. There are further condemnations in Revelation. But friend, we are called to a relationship with Christ. I have been in a similar situation (not all that you list but seen plenty of hypocrisy) yet it is the relationship with Christ i value above all even as i try to love others, knowing i fail. Remember Jesus in the boat when all the storm was around Him and he was perfectly at peace sleeping? As hard as it may be to do, try to consider the relationship with Jesus as the place of peace while the storm of humanity rages around you. Please don’t ever make the mistake to allow your relationship with God to be viewed or filtered through humanity. You will only find yourself distancing yourself from God as the view of Him will be warped when viewed through a human lens. Finally, we are called to love the unlovable; this is one of the hallmarks of truly following Christ. Think about those who loved those who were about to kill them. I beg you brother to never give up on God and His Son. I will be praying for you that you will find loving brothers and sisters. in Him

      • fessdo on September 26, 2018 at 8:50 pm

        Anonymous,
        I think you’re looking for something that you are not going to find in any church, as a matter of fact you’re not going to find it any where on earth, that is if you’re looking for good people. Some will argue there is lots of good people here on earth but if you believe Jesus he said “their is NONE good but one and that’s God” Mark 10:18, so if you have someone telling you some people are good, then you can believe them or Jesus it’s your choice who to believe.

        • Prefer to be Anonymous on September 27, 2018 at 12:01 am

          incorrect. I’m not looking for good people. I’m looking for people who love each unconditionally despite not being good.
          Kind of like how a “good” parent for lack of a better term, loves their child unconditionally, despite the child not doing the right thing all the time.
          Hopefully that makes sense.

          • fessdo on September 27, 2018 at 8:09 am

            Anonymous,
            That don’t make sense, you stated in your first comment “I do love the people who genuinely loved me” but you expect the exact opposite of others? I mean you want to love them till they become unlovable then out you go, but they should love you unconditionally????



          • Prefer to be Anonymous on September 27, 2018 at 11:22 am

            @fessdo

            Well…it’s sort of different. I want to love them back, I want our relationship to be restored, but they don’t want that. It’s kind of hard to love someone who doesn’t want you in their life at all. I’m more than happy to extend grace and love…but I can’t love people who don’t want me around…if that makes sense. I didn’t leave because of the barely tolerable comment, I left because they made it clear they didn’t want to associate with me. The pastor was limiting my worship time to just main service and men’s breakfast, but saw no punishment for his son who was the one who offended. It’s all confusing to me.



          • fessdo on September 27, 2018 at 11:56 am

            Anonymous,
            After reading your comments I would have run you off too.
            Just a bit to much into yourself. Churches want problem solvers not problem makers.



          • Prefer to be Anonymous on September 27, 2018 at 2:55 pm

            Well, I actually did trying working things out/solving the problem; I met with the pastor a few times, and he said he doesn’t feel slighted in any way, so I’m not exactly sure what the problem is, but they still don’t want to talk to me and have blocked me…so either there is an offense someone isn’t saying, or they just think rejecting someone from the church is biblical.
            It doesn’t seem like I was the one making the problem here.



          • fessdo on September 28, 2018 at 7:59 am

            Anonymous,
            If you feel like you’ve done your best then forget them and move on. I really do believe God is in control of heaven and can do anything he wants there, but here on earth man is the boss and controls things so if you can’t be at peace with the boss then it’s time to move on to a new boss (church) and try them out.



          • KNJO on October 18, 2018 at 12:13 pm

            Sounds like you are wounded from your own life too. Wounded people look to the church for the family they speak of. The church is supposed to be our new family, we have a new name. But I too feel over the church right now. Learning by reading all the wise and not so wise comments. My advice to you and to me, spend more time with Jesus and sit in silence, fast and pray for those people, be the church. just find a different place to worship and be the church. and if you really do have annoying attributes, acknowledge them and own them and get counseling and work on yourself and who you want to be in the world. Acknowledging your own annoying tendencies is actually loving others. Because what is unloving is totally ignoring that you might need help. Be brave.



        • Hilton on September 27, 2018 at 3:28 am

          Fessdo He did say that none is good but God alone. But after Pentecost he came to live in us. In HIM we live and move and have our being. In GOODNESS we live and move and have our being. If we can be filled up to all the fullness of God then we can be filled up with all the Goodness of God too. If you abide in Him then HIS Goodness will be part of the sap flowing into your branches that bear much fruit. Lets look at the fruit of the Spirit. Its HIS love shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost. Its the JOY of the LORD that is our strength. Its the PEACE of GOD that passes all understanding as we give our cares and anxieties to Him. Its His patience too and all the rest of them. It really is HIS faith that we have too and of course its HIS GOODNESS mentioned in those fruit too. Even the humility must belong to Him. Let us hasten the day where we believe and act like it’s no longer I -so that its Christ (and his goodness) that is shining out through you and I. Father I ask for fessdo, Gregg and all those that believe to be overflowing today with YOUR love and goodness today.

          • fessdo on September 27, 2018 at 7:59 am

            Hilton,
            Thanks for the prayer and no offence friend but pray doesn’t work in my life. I’ve been prayed over by the best, I even had a preacher that makes over $50 million a year lay hands on me and pray (cost me a $1000) with zero results, will it did have one result I had to take a second job to make up the $1000 I blew. One time I took a 6mts pray course and built a prayer room which I used for over a year each morning for 2hrs and still no results. Then one day I read where Jesus said hypocrites love to pray, so that end my so called prayer life. A man has got to know his limitations, if it hasn’t worked for you after 50 plus years then why think it will change. You know what they call a person that does the same thing over and over and expects different results?



        • David Bressler on November 28, 2018 at 11:46 pm

          Amen, fessdo. Every human being that has ever lived in lower than the lowest snail dung at the bottom of the Marianas Trench. Jesus knew that. “For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.” All we have is the Holy Blood of The Lamb to cover our sins. God is not a liar and neither is His Only Begotten Son.

          • David Bressler on November 29, 2018 at 1:13 am

            iS lower than
            typo



          • Gregg Powers on November 29, 2018 at 12:35 pm

            Lie of Satan. You think you are humbling yourself before God in this manner? Yes we are sinners, yes we need God’s grace and mercy but the idea that you just espoused is completely inconsistent with scripture. Read Psalm 26. Count the number of times David (a man after God’s heart) used the pronoun”I”

            We should never be arrogant before the Lord, but we should be faithful. That is what scripture teaches and all about what Hebrews 11 is about. Notice that the Lord lifted up people in Hebrews 11 for using their faith otherwise all these would have said God did…..

            We are not to run around and claim woes me. We are to live faithfully in the strength of the Holy Spirit.



  27. Chris Hosmer on September 25, 2018 at 7:31 am

    One of my favorite pastimes :

    Walk through the conversations that Jesus has, and put yourself there.

    Hear His emphasis.
    Hear His point.
    Hear His agenda

    Be affected by it.
    One of my favorite questions :

    What are you reading in the scriptures that is helping you draw near to Christ?

    Listen to the answers you get.

    “Church” is usually where people are just too busy to slow down and look at Christ.

    They do their thing and are headed out to door to rotate their tires.

    • fessdo on September 25, 2018 at 7:58 am

      Chris,
      You’re making a little sense now. As I look back I think did church help or hurt me and if I look at the ones who never messed with any churches they are way better off than me. While I was sitting in church and giving my money away plus not to forget all the work I did for so called follow believers at no charge (who don’t even remember my name now), the non church goers was making and saving money, they was and still are living in fine homes, driving fine cars and even have enough money to pay someone else to rotate those nasty tires for them, heck they have enough extra money to never rotate they just buy new ones. At this stage in life the best I can hope for is that with all my trying to live right over the years it got me a free ticket out of hell. When I get to heaven my only request is for God to erase all memories of my life on earth, now that would be paradise to me.

      • Hilton on September 25, 2018 at 11:20 pm

        Fessdo -if you are living and moving in Him then you will have rivers of living water coming out of you. That is not in vain. Abundant life is yours now. Not pie in the sky by and by but steak on the plate before it’s too late. I believe that any “getting” in the needs realm comes from being free from greed and believing in

        2 Corinthians 8:9 King James Version (KJV)
        9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

        It’s on the basis of the free gift of Calvary and not on our giving or works. Then there is no boasting in what we do but what he has done.

        Our father is a wonderful giver -yours too -but don’t judge the rich.

  28. Foodfor Thought on September 21, 2018 at 7:10 pm

    Churches Fucking Suck………….I’m sorry, they do.

    • Greg Boss on September 23, 2018 at 10:00 am

      These people have such a good grasp of the written word. It is a shame they do not have the same on reality.

      • Hilton on September 26, 2018 at 12:55 am

        Give them time Greg – people who continue t look into His word aren’t far from the truth if they are seeking the person of truth too. When you have a grasp on the living word of God you have all the reality you will ever need. Real reality are those things that last eternally. The grass withers and the flower fades but the word of the Lord will stand forever. Now that’s reality. …… all these things shall be added unto you……..if you seek yea first the Kingdom and His righteousness.

        You must have powerful discernment too to know how “their reality” is going. I don’t even know where they live.

      • fessdo on September 26, 2018 at 7:53 am

        Hilton,
        Thanks and no offence but it makes me think or James 2:16

  29. Hilton on September 15, 2018 at 7:05 am

    Gregg I think what fessdo is trying to say is that if you live in the finished work of the cross then you will abide in Him. If you Abide in Him then you will bear much fruit (fruit is obedience -let me elaborate)

    Lets take the first three fruit of the spirit. Love, Joy and peace. I can try to “OBEY” by sheer will power OR I can walk in the spirit. Jesus never came to tell us to have more will power. He gave us the power to fly above that realm. If you walk in the spirit you will not fore-fill the lusts of the flesh. SOoooo if you walk in love (shed abroad in your heart by the Holy Ghost) then you wont steal, fight, hate, lie or commit adultery. All sin is a love failure. Think about it. Rather than using sheer will power we choose to walk in His love. His love NEVER fails. Then we automatically obey. If you walk in love you walk in God and obeying starts to become automatic because the selfish tug of sin is being overrun by the selfless love of God. When Jesus said “it is finished” all the knowledge and wisdom of God was made available to us. All spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ Jesus are yours. Everything pertaining to life and Godliness became ours. As we abide in Him and walk in the spirit we walk in a new mindset and spirit where we supernaturally want to obey and walk in His love. If we abide in Him and His word abodes in us we can ask what we will and it shall be done. This IS the confidence that we have in HIm if we ask anything according to His will he hears us…. I tried to obey and read my bible each day. Then I tried harder. And harder. Now I choose to be near, draw close, seek His face, change from Glory to Glory….. Abide in the Lord, believe I am in Him and He is in me, rejoicing always… This love can fill us up to even the fullness of God -Wow that’s victory over sin -resurrection life -love that never fails. If you can walk in His love for five minutes then you can walk above sin for 5 minutes. Keep abiding in His love and the obeying will just flow. The motives thinking and the heart will lean toward what you are abiding in. Its the Love of GOD that’s shed abroad in our hearts -its the joy of the LORD that is your strength -it’s the peace of GOD that passes all understanding as you give your troubles and anxieties to Him. Abide and the struggle to obey will dissolve….. Thats why the scripture says this paradox. STRIVE to enter the REST so that you can cease from your labours (labour of will to obey) and enter in to HIS WORK. Lets patience have it’s perfect work -so that you might be whole and mature lacking in Nothing. The WISDOM of God is yours -he lives in you. The wisdom is part of the sap flowing through your vine. He who lacks wisdom let him ask (not doubting). Abide. in His sap today by faith and your branch will bring forth the fruit of Jesus. Are we to obey? Sure -but HOW do we obey? By faith we abide and realize that the God of the universe has made His home in us (love himself) -rejoice in this and believe all the great and precious promises. God bless you mate!

    • fessdo on September 15, 2018 at 7:51 am

      Hilton,
      Thank you for that grace filled comment, it is so refreshing to read a message that talks about not only the grace of God but also the love and mercy of God. One of the hardest thing to understand about God is his mercy. Try as we might we all mess up and sin but thanks to God’s mercy he doesn’t punish us as our sins deserve but will softy and tenderly remind us we’ve gotten out of the love walk. When we learn this about God then we can enter into his rest so easy.

      • Wilbur on September 22, 2018 at 4:22 am

        Hilton, thanks for impressing us, you’re a genius you sound so religious. Typical churchy babble of mixing in micro portions of Bible verses to make it appear as though you are clearly a scholar. From my perspective as a former “weekly attender”, the average church goer puts on the classic holiness costume when they show up at the First Baptist Church of Somewhere wearing their christian underwear and chewing their christian bubble gum and looking down on other attenders who don’t choose to pretend. I guess it’s all part of playing the game. If you come to church being who you really are, just another person who found grace, there is a definite tendency by the establishment membership to give you the look down the nose because your acting skills are not up to par with theirs. Who wants to go to a place like that?

        • Stu on September 22, 2018 at 8:15 am

          Hi Wilbur,

          I think a lot of what you said makes sense from your perspective, and once—for about 20 years as an atheist, I would have agreed with you. Let me make my case.

          The first time I stepped foot in a building where the church people went, I heard a preacher preach that actually had me laughing because of how sickly sweet he sounded. No human being, I thought, could ever come close to actually being that way, and no one ever has since. He became my best friend, and taught me that some—some—actually did what they said. When I was happy, he rejoiced with me; when I thought I was dying, he was there for me; in fact, I noticed that my wife—who is not a Christian, said that if anyone actually were, he would be as close to Christ as she could imagine. I came from a place of defiance, with my hands arrogantly shouting against even the concept of God. I called my Richard Feynman Physics Book my Bible and even dared a pastor to exchange his for “mine” for two weeks to demonstrate how pathetic the Word of God was. In three days, after reading the first page of Genesis repeatedly, I threw the book down, called the pastor and demanded my “real” bible back. I never saw him again. I was against everything and everybody.

          I left that church eventually because most everyone there didn’t even have the time of day when you asked them. But there were a few, and even they were not perfect. I say that sarcastically because I discovered that if I am expecting to see Christ one day sitting next me, I was only being deluded. It ain’t gonna happen. People are messy, but we are messes worth making. I am no better than you, but like you, I too have a dream and a hope, and now even a purpose. There is a huge difference in knowing “about ” Christ, or even “knowing” him. The old Devil knows him better than anyone. He can quote Scripture all day long. Many might even think of the Devil as Christ because of how alluring and convincing he is. But there is a difference in him and the real Christ: he is not “like” him. The reason we feel so lousy is because we do not behave like Jesus taught and acted. If we did—and there are some who do—we would ironically come to realize just how much he loves us. No longer must I depend upon men to form my own identity even though I still associate with them and befriend them, just as Jesus befriended sinners. But I do not have to worry about what they say about me or to me. I don’t even have to worry about what I think of myself. I only need care about what God thinks of me. God says I must interact with people who believe they follow Him. Whether they do or not, I am to interact. I don’t get to pull up the weeds in the field; God says only He will. God did not tell me I can hate some people. He told me to love those who do not love me back. He said I don’t get to repay evil for evil or insult with insult, but to pray even for my enemies and do good to them.

          So I came back to my old sickly sweet feelings. There they were. I was starting to believe what my pastor told me and follow what he showed me. He behaved like Christ as best as the Spirit led him. So I not only see a difference, I am finally experiencing one. I get where you are coming from. I get it. But like you, Jesus is telling all of us—me included—to overcome our bitterness because of all of the hypocrisy we see. Don’t let the lack of truth in what you see stop you from trying to be truthful. Don’t let the bitterness of others make you bitter. Don’t let others who walk away make you walk away. You see where I’m going. I was there. We reap what we sow. I lived on the other side of the street, and because I have, I have every right to make a reasonable decision which side is greater. While this side is far from perfect, at least I know what my goal is. Even though I can’t reach it in this flesh, I will “fight” to get there. Even though I want what I want in the flesh that gratifies me, I will pray that the Spirit has His way. Even though I will never be satisfied in man, I will be satisfied in Christ. He did not abandon us even though he said he did not trust us because he knows what is in n’s heart. How then can I abandon them who he loved and died for? If I love Christ, I can’t.

        • Gregg Powers on September 22, 2018 at 10:53 am

          I am not even sure what this means. If people are acting that is a problem and people should not be looking down their nose at anyone. But it is equally errant to believe that one can live anyway one wants once we truly come to terms with what our savior did for us (and what scripture teaches). I can’t tell but your words lead me to believe that you may believe that you can live any type of life you want based on infinitely elastic grace. Friend, live the life called to by submitting to the Holy Spirit. Not worried about the church and some of the hypocrites within; just counsel you to listen to God in all that He has to tell you. God Bless. in Him

        • fessdo on September 23, 2018 at 6:12 am

          Wilbur,
          “looking down on other attenders”,,, You only look up to people you admire, applaud, praise, commend, acclaim, or respect and I can tell from your comment you don’t fit that category. Winners don’t won’t to be around losers especially thumb sucking cry babies. Everything that happens to you in your life is YOUR fault, good or bad it’s your fault so quit trying to blame others for your mess and stop looking for someone to fix you. Put on your big boy britches and start looking at your faults and not others. People are in their messes because of lack of education, addiction, or laziness so pick your poison here Wilbur. People make a mess of their lives and expected someone else to fix it, we’re living in the generation of “I don’t take responsibility “, I call it the cry baby clan. Responsible people who knows life isn’t fair takes control and gets over it. I got a news flash for you there’s somethings God cannot do, so stop your crying and feeling sorry for little o you. Start living like a winner, someone who people will look up to and stop making excuses for your messed up life.

        • Hilton on September 25, 2018 at 3:06 am

          As a fellow former “weekly attender” Wilbur I want to sincerely apologise for sounding so religious. My aim is not to appear scholarly or impress people. I would be in church every Sunday if I wanted to play that game. I rarely even comment on any blog using any scriptures etc but I found in Fessdo and Gregg some guys who seemed as hungry to become the truth as well as “know the truth”. I will take more time to quote the whole verses and the surrounding ones but as I thought there were only a few reading this (and I knew they knew these verses) I didn’t bother. As for this part……

          I guess it’s all part of playing the game. If you come to church being who you really are, just another person who found grace, there is a definite tendency by the establishment membership to give you the look down the nose because your acting skills are not up to par with theirs. Who wants to go to a place like that?

          I could not agree with you more. I left “going to church” more than five years ago (after fifty years of various churches) because of these types of things but many others that I have mentioned earlier in this blog. I pray Wilbur that as we seek the perfect one we will both continue to love His people and desire to see them liberated into the full knowledge of Him and what His body is supposed to be and do in this hour. Once again my apologies for sounding religious. My personal desire is to shun religion and embrace life. I will not apologise for quoting lots of scriptures as I think we should all challenge each other with His truth. I thank Fessdo and Gregg for doing the same for me. After giving up on “commenting” on the net about 12 years ago this was my first try to run alongside some seekers here. God bless you Wilbur mate (Im Aussie) and don’t stop loving the Head and that way you won’t stop loving the body even though you might not like the things some of them do. Be careful trying to guess the intentions of people writing stuff as that can hurt people if you have judged their motives as wrong -I’m not hurt but others can be. But I will talk to dad about it. Hope that sounds less religious.

    • Gregg Powers on September 15, 2018 at 12:40 pm

      We are not in disagreement here at all (literally at all). Just finished a book on this(submitted to publisher Wednesday). A few things. What was finished is payment; not forgiveness. That’s what the Greek even means. Christ paid for the sins of the entire world but all are not saved, correct? So we must have forgiveness as well. That comes in Christ. Fessdo rejects the law. But the Holy Spirit leads us to keep the law. He does not understand that the moral law and the Holy Spirit lead us in the same place. The Holy Spirit would not lead us to murder, or steal right? We both acknowledge we cannot keep the law of our own volition. It is the reason scripture teaches that we are not under the law IF (conditional) we are led by the Holy Spirit; it is also the reason that the commandments are restated in the NT and that if we love God we keep His commandments. What we are not under is the civil or ceremonial parts of the law. Finally this is a game many Christians play. We (yes we) must submit to the Spirit but this is of our choice. We know this simply because we see how many Christians do not live according to the Holy Spirit. We see many many Christians living in the flesh, living in sin because they reject the Holy Spirit (which again leads us to live consistent with the commandments). But it is a grave warning sign that people do not understand the leading of the Holy Spirit and the moral law are the same. Most who focus only on grace are those who think they can willfully and continually can engage the flesh (which is opposing the spirit) relying on the grace of God. This is unscriptural. In the end we agree completely that we must rely on the Spirit. But that is not the thesis of what fessdo says. His message is all grace (which is the wrong focus) and that the law can be ignored. Our focus is to submit to the Holy Spirit. Remember how much our God hates sin. If the Holy Spirit is in us and we are listening to Him, it is only natural that we also hate sin. We need grace but relying on God’s grace and ignoring the spirit leads to spiritual death where as focusing on walking with the Holy Spirit leads to life. Remember scripturally being indwelt and following the Holy Spirit are not the same…… God Bless to you mate!

      • fessdo on September 15, 2018 at 2:17 pm

        Gregg,
        The thing I reject is one’s works to redeem his self. If someone else had paid my debt why would I pay it again? I do not think it’s all grace, as Paul put in both Timothy letters “Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father” also it’s in 1st john ” Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father” I believe you get peace that passes understanding when you find out about God’s grace AND mercy. Grace is God’s ability in us to do what we don’t have the ability to do, but God knew we would need more than just that with these sinful body so he gave us mercy that even though we deserve hell he forgives and forgets. Now that’s good news.

        • Gregg Powers on September 15, 2018 at 4:53 pm

          in general i agree with this but there is more there; it does not capture the breadth of scripture. we do works because we are led by the Holy Spirit to do them just as He leads us to do the Father’s will and follow His commandments. Every judgement in NT scripture is based on works, not on knowing Christ. Do works save us? NO. But for those who are truly led by the Holy Spirit, there are works. But we can oppose, grieve, and quench the Holy Spirit of our own will. We still have a life to live before God and if we don’t do so in submission to the Holy Spirit (which again leads us to keep the moral law and do works befitting true repentance) we are misled. So if anyone believes the grace of God allows them to live however they want (and not saying you said this) they are misled. Anyone who believes that all their future sins are forgiven and then is committed to living in the flesh are going to be surprised. Its simply not scriptural.

          • Chris Hosmer on September 15, 2018 at 5:16 pm

            God does require works….

            When asked what are the works God requires, Jesus answers in John 6 :

            The work of God is this, to believe in the One he sent.

            This is trivialized by those who don’t understand the difficulty of belief in Christ.
            In order to believe someone, you have to hear what they are saying.
            You then have to make logical sense out of what they say and compare it to what you think.

            Then you have to isolate your objections and allow the persuasion of Christ to overcome them.

            Beleif takes focus, effort, time and persistence.

            It is the Checed that is sought after in Hosea 6
            It is the bucket you draw water with in Isaiah 12
            It is the reasoning together that God pleads for in Isaiah 1
            It is the life breathed into the dead army in Ezekiel 37

            Ahhh…the living voice of Christ!



          • fessdo on September 15, 2018 at 6:29 pm

            Why do people want to make salvation so complicated? Complications lead to frustrations which leads to finding a way out and when it’s frustrations from trying to learn the bible people leave the church. Church needs to use KISS (keep it simple stupid). What is so wrong with believing Jesus paid it all and God is full of mercy and grace. I have never meet one person who after learning the truth of Gods mercy and grace start sinning more, all I knew begin to sin less not because they had to but because they wanted to. It may be that some people have to have the law to keep them in line (stiff neck) maybe, I’ve never saw one but of course if they’re around me much they don’t live under the burden of the law long. When they see the rest I live in the lord they’re quick to join in. If we try finding every answer to our lives in scripture then we wouldn’t need faith cause we could SEE it written down.

            Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

            Ephesians 2:7-9 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God Not of works, lest any man should boast.

            Bottom line I have faith in Him that I’m saved and not in Fessdo’s work plus Him.



      • Hilton on September 15, 2018 at 9:45 pm

        Gregg we are much on the same page. If we as you say we focus on grace does that mean we focus on His spirit given to us by grace – or does it mean that we now have a licence to sin.
        What I am trying to say is that I TRIED for years to fulfill all the man made so called “unconscious laws” that have been made out of the new testament. Don’t go to a place of ill repute. Put ten percent in the bucket. Turn up to all the meetings. Girls can’t wear swim suits. Don’t drink. Read your bible every day -yada yada. I tried to keep the moral law in my own strength too and failed.
        This is what was happening

        Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Romans 7

        Focusing on law will never free you from it. Who will deliver me from this body of death -thanks be to God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Focusing on the GRACE freely poured through the Holy Ghost is entirely different from reading laws and trying hard not to break them. My church experience has been laws , laws and more laws. My struggle has been with law and the sins that were sinful through it. While people gave lip service to Jesus helping me to overcome they never showed me or taught me HOW to abide and live and move and have my being in Christ and the fullness of his Holy Spirit. Focus on Jesus and follow Him and you will fly over sin. That’s what he died for. No longer me living but Him. Like fresh manna in the wilderness I need the bread of life fresh every day. I can’t survive on yesterdays teaching and revelation – I need his grace new every morning. True faith of the heart and not just some mental assent to doctrines and principles. When I got up this morning I did not focus on the list of the sins of the flesh in Galations. I abide and talk to Love himself. I expect His words of love and grace to come back. Why would I get up from that and go and get drunk and do bad things at a wild party -or go to a prayer meeting to spread gossip about my brother? ANYBODY who truly abides wont be looking for an easy road and a day in the flesh that is “covered” by easy grace. One is looking out for self and the other one is full of His selfless love. DO I sin that grace would more abound? May it never be!
        Will I abide and present my body a living dead -wholly and acceptable unto God? This is my reasonable service. Do I want to focus my fellow believers on Law? No – Jesus is the answer and we follow Him. This business that Christians break Gods law because they don’t know the moral law is rubbish. People Know that stealing murder hate and cheating on your wife is wrong -thats why they use the word “cheating”. They know cheating is wrong at school too. A NEW commandment I give unto you. If I can abide in LOVE then I don’t need to focus on what all the myriad of rules are. This is ALL about HOW you obtain victory over sin and where your focus is.
        By the way – if I can’t be cleansed from all unrighteousness when I are short with my wife this afternoon then my christian life has hit a massive brick wall. In my best striving to enter the rest of God I need to have His blood cleanse me of all sin as I walk in the light as He is in the light. Otherwise I cannot come boldly to the throne of Grace as I am not righteous. Thank God Jesus paid for that too. Does that mean I can relax and flow with Him -absolutely. Does that mean I should carry a list of sins and hop on the “try harder bike” -May it never be. Self righteousness is BORN out of those who know the law. I have been there and done that too. Focus on the law produces pharisees. People who know it backwards and think they are righteous when in fact they are blinded to what is happening in their hearts. There are more new testament pharisees out there than the old testament ever produced. I was (and can be) one of them. Pride is an absolute blinder. Law experts end up blind as they have lost sight of the light Himself being tangled up in what they are focusing on. How many think they are obeying the ten commandments but are failing miserably on the first commandment. But they can’t see it. The law is a school teacher that leads us to Christ. That’s why we need a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus so we will know the hope of His calling . the richness of His inheritance in the saints and the greatness of the power toward us who believe. Christians fail because they fail to abide. The prodigal failed as he left home. Christians don’t fail because they need more law. Grace was NEVER given for people to live how they want -Grace was given to live IN HIM. Grace is to overcome – it never produces failure.

        • fessdo on September 15, 2018 at 10:51 pm

          Hilton,
          Again thank you for blessing me others with another comment. When you said “Focusing on law will never free you from it” I was reminded of a pastor who was in his study one Saturday studying law and grace, it came to him that focusing on the law would produce a sin. He thought that can’t be right so he did a little experiment, outside his window was his two sons one 6 the other 8 also their friends about the same age. The pastor raised the window and told the boy “what every you all do don’t spit on that bush or you’ll be in big trouble. Now the boys had played together for hours and had never once even looked a that bush until they were given a thou shall not spit, but with in a few minutes one by one had spit on the bush. There is just something in people that cause them to this. If you ever drive a race car you’ll be told never focus on the wall cause where the eyes go the car goes.

        • Hilton on September 16, 2018 at 1:59 am

          When you think about it the Holy Spirit leads us to obedience faaaaarrr greater than the law. It captures the life and not the letter.

          Jesus lifted the bar on the law! Jesus made the requirements HAAARRRDDEERRRRR not easier.

          1. I say unto you if you HATE your brother you are a MURDERER
          2. whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
          3. But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
          4. If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

          There is no doubting it. Jesus lifted the bar on your thoughts, words and actions. No wonder the disciples declared “who can be saved” That’s another bar that was lifted. The big test of Mammon. The answer to the disciples questions came on the day of pentecost. There through Christ we have the greatness of the power toward us who believe -the teacher of the ages- the same power that raised Christ from the dead -the power to walk IN HIM -no longer us BUT HIM. I must decrease. He must increase. Only there is the ability to do the things that Jesus spoke of above. Those who walk in His spirit WILL do exploits far beyond the mere letter of the law. I would like to hear from anybody who thinks Jesus did not raise the stakes on what is required of us. I am sincere in this. But never fear Jesus is here -to do it for you-after all you are HIS body. You have HIS mind. And you live and move and have your being IN HIM. Greater works are for those who abide, put on and walk IN HIM.

          • Gregg Powers on September 16, 2018 at 10:49 am

            Right! The Holy Spirit leads us to fulfill the spirit of the law (as Jesus described). So what the Spirit leads us into is a much higher standard than the letter of the law. This is exactly the thesis of “The Law” chapter in the book….Amen



          • Gregg Powers on November 29, 2018 at 12:37 pm

            Amen



        • Gregg Powers on September 16, 2018 at 10:46 am

          Amen, yet we must make the decision to submit to the Spirit. Sadly, there are too many (research for the book) Christians that live as enemies of the cross of Christ. I suspect through the leading of the Holy Spirit, you now are led to follow the commandments, love others, share the gospel, etc. etc. Praise God that you listen to His spirit for He will NEVER lead you wrong. I don’t always know what others think but my experience has been when people say we are not under the law (and need not follow the commandments) they are looking to invalidate what God teaches in the OT and NT under the banner of grace. Yet this is not the comprehensive teaching of scripture. God Bless……

          • fessdo on September 16, 2018 at 11:56 am

            Romans 8:3–4
            For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
            What does Paul mean in verse 4 when he says that the aim of Christ’s death is “that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit”?
            Some take this to mean that Christ fulfilled the law for us when he obeyed it perfectly and died as the perfect sacrifice on our behalf. In him we are perfect with his perfection and in him we are pardoned by his blood. Now I believe that is true. And it is foundational for everything. But I don’t think that is the point of verse 4. And the reason I don’t is that it won’t fit the wording of the text. Verse 4 says the aim is “that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us.” It does not say that the law is to be fulfilled for us. That is true, I would say, from Romans 5:19. But that’s not the point here. And then he focuses specifically on our walking, that is, our living, as the way the fulfillment will happen: “that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who walk . . . according to the Spirit.”
            So my question is: How do we fulfill the requirement of the law? And specifically how can any of my “walking” by the Spirit — which is always imperfect in this life — be said to fulfill God’s law which is holy and just and good. Since when does God’s holy law and divine standard say, “Pretty good will do”?



          • fessdo on September 17, 2018 at 7:19 am

            What Does It Mean to Fulfill the Law in Romans 8:3–4?

            What I would like to do is answer this question with a far-reaching summary of the relationship of the Christian to the Law in twelve theories.
            Theory 1: Fulfilling the requirement of the law in Romans 8:4 refers to a life of real love for people.

            Romans 13:8–10: “Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, ‘you shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet,’ and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”
            Galatians 5:13–18: “For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. . . . If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.” (Compare Romans 7:4, 6.)
            Matthew 7:12: “In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.”
            Matthew 22:37–40: “And he said to him, ‘you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.’”
            Theory 2: Our fulfilling the law in loving others is not the ground of our justification. The ground of justification is the obedience and blood-shedding of Christ alone, appropriated through faith alone before any other acts are performed. Our fulfilling the law is the fruit and evidence of being justified by faith.
            “The ground of justification is the obedience and blood-shedding of Christ alone.”
            Romans 3:24–25: “Being justified as a gift by his grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in his blood through faith. This was to demonstrate his righteousness, because in the forbearance of God he passed over the sins previously committed.”
            Romans 5:19: “For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.”
            Romans 8:3: “For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh.
            2 Corinthians 5:21: “He made him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in him.”
            Romans 3:20–22: “By the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in his sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction.”
            Romans 3:28: “We maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.”
            Romans 4:4–5: “Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.”
            Theory 3: This fulfilling of the law in loving others is rendered not in our own strength but by the presence and power of the Holy Spirit.

            Romans 8:4: “So that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
            Galatians 5:22: “The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.”
            Galatians 5:13–16: “For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, ‘you shall love your neighbor as yourself. . . .’ But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.”
            Theory 4: This fulfilling of the law in loving others through the Spirit is rendered by faith, that is, by being satisfied with all that God is for us in Christ — the perseverance of the same faith that justifies.

            Galatians 3:5: “So then, does he who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?”
            Galatians 5:6: “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.”
            1 Timothy 1:5: “But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.”
            Thesis 5: This fulfilling of the law in loving others through the Spirit by faith is not a perfect love in this life.

            Romans 7:15: “I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.”
            Romans 7:19: “For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing.”
            Romans 7:23–25: “I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.”
            Philippians 3:12: “Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.”
            Theory 6: But my fulfilling of the law in loving others through the Spirit by faith will become perfect when I die or when Christ comes, and I will live in perfection of love forever.

            Romans 8:30: “These whom he predestined, he also called; and these whom he called, he also justified; and these whom he justified, he also glorified.
            Philippians 1:6: “For I am confident of this very thing, that he who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.”
            Hebrews 12:22–23: “But you have come to Mount Zion . . . and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect.”
            “Christ will be glorified forever in our salvation. We’ll forever lean on his righteousness.”
            Thesis 7: Even though I will one day be perfected in love, the totality of my existence will never be a perfect one because it will always include the first chapter of my fallenness. I will always be a forgiven sinner and will always be in need of an imputed, alien righteousness and a sin-bearing Substitute for my right standing before God. In this way, Christ will be glorified forever in my salvation. I will forever lean on his righteousness and his sacrifice.

            Theory 8: Even though imperfect, this Spirit-dependent, Christ-exalting love (which is essentially self-sacrificing gladness in the temporal and eternal good of others, 2 Corinthians 8:1–2, 8) is the true and real direction of life the law required. In this life we have new direction, not full perfection. This direction is what the law demands on the way to perfection.
            (See the texts under thesis 1.)
            Theory 9: This fulfilling of the Old Testament Law in the loving others through the Spirit by faith is sometimes called the “law of liberty” and the “law of Christ.”

            9.1. When the fulfilling of the Law it is called the “law of liberty” it means that as Christians we pursue love in liberty from law-keeping as the ground of our justification or the power of our sanctification. Instead we pursue it by the “law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:2). We look to the Spirit of Christ for transformation so that love flows by power from within, not pressure from without. The law of liberty is the leading of the Spirit, and “where the Spirit is there is freedom” (2 Corinthians 3:17).
            James 1:25: “But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.”
            James 2:10–12: “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. For He who said, ‘do not commit adultery,’ also said, ‘do not commit murder.’ Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.
            Galatians 5:1: “It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore, keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
            2 Corinthians 3:17–18: “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.”
            9.2. When the fulfilling of the Law is called “the law of Christ,” it means that our pursuit of love is guided and enabled by the life, word, and Spirit of Jesus Christ. The law of Christ is not a new list of behaviors without but a new Treasure and Master within. He did give us a “new commandment” (“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another,” John 13:34). But this standard of love is the life and power of a person who indwells us by his Spirit. We pursue love as “the law of Christ” by looking to Christ as our all-sufficient righteousness, our all-satisfying Treasure, our all-providing Protection and Helper, and our all-wise counselor and guide.
            1 Corinthians 9:21: “To those who are without law, [I became] as without law, though not being without the law of God but [in, not under] the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.”
            Galatians 6:2: “Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.”
            Theory 10: The Old Testament Law can be understood narrowly as a set of commandments, or more broadly as the entire teaching of the Pentateuch, or even all the instruction of God wherever he gives it.

            10.1. In the narrow sense one may think of the law as commanding perfect obedience which, if we could perform it by faith, would be our righteousness and our justification. But, because of our sin, the law does not impart life in this way (Galatians 3:21), but shuts us up to look away from law-keeping to Christ so that we might be justified by faith in him.
            Galatians 3:21–25: “If a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.”
            10.2. In the broader sense of the whole Pentateuch or the whole Old Testament, we may think of the law not merely as making demands, but as also providing a way for sinners to be justified by faith apart from works, and to please him by walking in love (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:3; Galatians 3:6).
            “When the law is understood in its entirety, its aim is that Jesus Christ gets the glory.”
            Romans 3:19–22: “Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in his sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe.”
            Theory 11: When the law is understood in its entirety its aim is that Jesus Christ gets the glory as the one who provides the only ground for our imputed righteousness through faith (justification), and the only power for our imparted righteousness (that is, love which fulfills the law) through faith (sanctification).

            Romans 5:19: “For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the one the many will be made righteous.”
            Romans 10:4: “The goal of the law is Christ for righteousness to everyone who believes” (my translation).
            2 Corinthians 5:21: “He made him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in him.”
            Philippians 3:8–9: “More than that, I count all things to be loss . . . so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.”
            Philippians 1:11: “Having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.”
            Thesis 12: Therefore, I give a summary, three-part answer to the question, “How can my imperfect obedience and love fulfill the perfect law of God?”

            12.1. First, my imperfect love is, nevertheless, real God-dependent, Spirit-enabled, Christ-exalting love that is based on my justification and not a means to it. And therefore it is the new direction that the law was aiming at and what the new covenant promised. In short, love as the fruit of faith, which exalts Christ, is what the law was aiming at.
            12.2. Second, my imperfect love is the first fruits of a final perfection that Christ will complete in me at his appearing. Romans 8:4 does not say that the entire fulfillment of the law happens in us now. But our walk by the Spirit begins now and so does our fulfillment of the law.
            12.3. Finally, my imperfect love is the fruit of my faith in Jesus who is my justifying perfection before God. In other words, the only law-keeping I depend on as the ground of my justification is Jesus’s law-keeping. His was perfect. Mine is imperfect. And so I will never have a whole life of perfection to offer God — not to all eternity. The acceptability of my life to all eternity will always depend on the perfection of Jesus offered in my place. My imperfect love now and my perfect love later will always be the fruit of faith that looks to Jesus, my only perfection. In the end the law is fulfilled in me imperfectly because it was fulfilled in him perfectly. And my imperfection is a pointer to his perfection, and that pointing is the aim of the law.
            Look to Jesus

            Wherever you look in Scripture, look to Jesus. Let every passage tell you something of his Father and his Spirit and thus himself. Make it your aim in all your use of the Scriptures to see and savor more of Christ. Be on a treasure hunt to satisfy your soul more and more in him. In this way the Spirit of Christ will be at work to transform you into his image. The aim of the law will be fulfilled more and more in your life. And you will magnify Christ in your life until he comes to complete the work he has begun.



        • David Bressler on November 28, 2018 at 11:52 pm

          This is inspired and beautiful thinking, brother Hilton. Thanks for sharing! : )

  30. Chris Hosmer on September 12, 2018 at 11:58 am

    They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching….(Acts 2:42)

    One of my favorite questions is this : “What are you reading in the scriptures that is helping you draw near to Christ?”

    If this is actually happening for someone, then the need for “leadership” is de-emphasized” because they are already near the One who has more power than anyone else, and already can teach them directly.

    This is the Jesus that the apostles presented. We have their writings in order to help us see Jesus.

    The offices of the church listed in Ephesians were established BEFORE we had the New Testament in our hands.

    Thats a good thing to remember.

    Pastors today go to the school of their particular denomination to get trained. They become instruments of the denominational structure…because that is what they are trained to do.

    • Gregg Powers on September 12, 2018 at 12:14 pm

      Amen. it is why we must be in scripture……

  31. chosmer on September 12, 2018 at 9:41 am

    Mine 42day

    Im rolling these 3 around in my head today…put the puzzle pieces together and tell me what you get:
    I will report in later what my mining efforts produce…

    Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted (Matt 5:4)

    Strongs 3996 (morn) penthéō – properly, grieve over a death

    For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. (Isaiah 9:6)

    And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. (Zech 12:10)

  32. Hilton on September 12, 2018 at 5:55 am

    Carey I think when people say they are “done with Church” MOST of them mean the one they visited here and there that meets in a man made box that they sacrificed dollars to build at some point in it’s history. I am currently “done with church” meaning the vestiges of religion that seems to go more against what Jesus taught than FOR what he taught. After more than fifty years of “going to church” I realise with a closer relationship to Jesus that I am the church. But most of what is called the church has few clues about many of the truths about the church you state above that I agree with. Nor at this point in time are many of them interested in changing much at all. Here are some things that I can’t see many churches changing at all.
    1. You have to have a primary meeting (once a week) and it has to mostly be on Sunday. Then we can tell who you really belong to by which hut you are sitting in on Sunday morning.
    2. There’s normally singularity of leadership -generally a pastor with a few add ons (deacons or elders)
    3. Most of the “service” is written down by men beforehand and is generally strictly adhered to. Maybe some get around this by saying they “prayed about it” while writing it down. This should guarantee the “service (something done for you rather than something you are actively part of)” is spirit lead.
    4. There seems no room for any part of the body to bring a psalm, hymn, revelation or word of encouragement to edify. I am often told this happens at a home meeting on Wednesday night but when I get there its a Sunday repeat.
    5. Those who make this service will always tell you to have a personal relationship with God -but its a given that most of what you need will be done if you just turn up and do what we tell you on Sunday.
    6. You will be told that they love you unconditionally yet only a few learn your name and nobody rings you when you finally leave. If you have a need -ring the prayer chain and we will send you a frozen dinner.
    7. You have to come under our name -become our member and adhere to the rules. Paul said it was carnal for the one true body to say ” I am of Paul or I am of Apollos.”
    8. You have to pay for your blessing and give in order to get blessed. I thought Jesus bought all our blessings on the cross? This money goes to the wages of a few or to pay off debt.
    9. You all sit in rows and look at the back of peoples heads.
    10. This set up seems to sprout more law than grace. ( fessdo helped me with his law page -awesome mate)
    11. Few care if you come or go -let alone lay down our life for the brethren

    Why is it that hardly a church I know can deviate from any of the above and nor are they willing to try.

    God through Luthers revelation took us a few steps from the “works church” now we camp and don’t deal with any more.

    I’m so much like Ron. In fifty years I have done so much. Most (if not all) being wood hay and stubble.

    Ron said
    “I know many who have walked away from church because they think they don’t need the church. I am not numbered among them. As I stated previously I NEED the church,I long for the church.”

    Me too Ron – I left to FIND it too. I will find it first with Him. He will build the church. I’m done with church that’s around me.

    I want church that loves God and people with room for all to give that meets and finds it hard to separate. So much religion and law.

    I’m not after a perfect church just one that will START to unravel even the smallest bits in my eleven points -I could write 20 more but most reading this know what they are.

    Help us dear father -lead us closer to you. Help us to abide in you today.

    • fessdo on September 12, 2018 at 7:15 am

      Hilton,
      Thanks for your great comment, number 6 really gave me a chuckle cause it is so true it’s like” brother I’m praying for you” but if you ask exactly when and what did you pray, that’s when you get a blank stare because they’ve been caught in a lie.
      It’s so good to see some one else here that reads the bible with a grace mindset instead of the law mindset, a law mindset is an old testament mindset or works mindset where as a grace mindset is a new testament mindset or a rest mindset. It took years for me to learn to read the bible with a grace mindset and when I did then the rest in Jesus came in like a flood. That’s why when the law (or work) people make the comment “God’s going to get you for what you said” it just rolls off cause my trust is in what Jesus did not what I did but to them living under the law the statement “God’s going to get you” worries then bad because they can’t rest in what all Jesus has provided for them.
      Here’s something that I think will bless you.

      A New Testament / Grace Mindset
      Galatians 2:16”Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” The theme of the letter to the Galatians is the practical application of justification by faith. It is a major issue amongst many Christians today, yet it is the heart of our salvation, the fundamental truth and basis of our redemption in Christ Jesus. The letter to the Galatians gets to the core of true spiritual warfare which is law versus grace.
      2 Corinthians 10:3-5 is the warfare, the only true warfare that Christians need to consider which is in the mind. “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds. Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.”
      The weapons of our warfare are the gospel, faith, grace, love and truth. When we renew our minds to the truth of God’s grace, or Romans 12:1-2, then we realize that the war is over, and we can stand and rest in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Ephesians 6:11, 13-14 “Put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.” The Amplified Bible reads “that you may be able to stand up against all the strategies and deceits of the devil.” The word “wiles” in the Greek is the word “methodeia” which is where we get our word methods. It means the tricks, the mind games, the one way or one road. Verse 13 “Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all to stand, stand therefore.” Notice the frequency of the word “stand”.
      I have a question. What or who is the armor and where did you get it?
      Romans 13:14 “But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof.” The armor is Jesus Christ. How do you put Him on? You get born-again and renew your mind to the truth of who you are, what you have and what you can do in Christ Jesus and act like it is so because it is so! Remember Ephesians chapter one and two are before Ephesians chapter 6. They tell us that we are seated together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus far above all principalities and powers and might and dominion. They tell us that we are the body of Christ and Jesus is our Head and He has put all things underneath His feet. That means all things, the devil included is under our feet. Hebrews 4:1-3 “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, as I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.”
      What did Jesus mean in John 19:30 when He said “it is finished?” He meant that:
      1) Satan is defeated. He can no longer accuse you before God anymore.(Not that God would listen to him anyway.) John 12:31 “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.”1 John 3:8 “He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”
      2) The law is fulfilled. It is done. It is over. Nobody is under the law today. Hebrews 8:6 “But now he has obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant which is established upon better promises.” What is the president ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ? He is our great high priest, our mediator, our intercessor and our surety of a better covenant. As new creation people we need a New Testament to live by. 2 Corinthians 3:6 “who also made us able ministers of the New Testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit; for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.” Colossians 2:14 “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.” Verse 15 of Colossians 2 says “And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”
      3) Sin no longer has power over us. Romans 6:14 “Sin shall no longer have dominion over you because you are no longer under law but under grace.” 1 Corinthians 15:56-57 “The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God which gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.”
      So if there is no old covenant law anymore then sin has no more power over us. The old man is now dead, Romans 6:6, and doesn’t exist anymore. That person that now lives, the new creation, loves God, and loves His word. That new person loves the things of the Spirit, people and everything that pertains to the kingdom of God. So now I say with Paul “who has bewitched you?” Galatians 5:1. Do you see it? You can never experience the fullness of God, His love, His truth, His power or His miracles by works of the law! Philippians 3:9-10 “And be found in him, not having my own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death.” Why are people condemned all the time and powerless today? Because they are still under the law (actually they are not). They are trying to obtain righteousness instead of living by faith in the grace. When we are living by faith in the grace, the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, based on what He did for us at the cross, then sin, sickness, the law, Satan and even death has no more power over us. We can work miracles, heal the sick, cast out devils, raise the dead, and operate in all the fullness as sons of God because “God the Father, who did not spare his own son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?” Romans 8:32.

      • Gregg Powers on September 12, 2018 at 10:21 am

        Sad; but this is what happens when you read 1/2 the New Testament. Hoping you find the other half. in Him

        • fessdo on September 12, 2018 at 11:34 am

          Gregg,
          I thought for sure that you would have saw it’s faith in what Jesus did not faith in Jesus and Gregg did by now.
          Jesus plus something = nothing, but Jesus plus nothing = everything.
          You just can’t see the forest for the trees, maybe if you remove the religious eye glasses and look for a loving Father instead of one waiting to beat the crap out of you then you would arrive at a true understanding what all Jesus has done for even you. You’re replying so that means there’s still hope for you.

          • Gregg Powers on September 12, 2018 at 11:57 am

            Friend, you listen to false teachers. 1 John 2:3. Can you explain how you understand this verse?



          • fessdo on September 12, 2018 at 12:16 pm

            Gregg.
            That’s an easy one, the answer is in John 13:34.



          • Gregg Powers on September 12, 2018 at 12:22 pm

            Two problems with that. 1 John 2:3 was written later. Also we are taught that if we truly love God we OBEY.



          • fessdo on September 12, 2018 at 12:42 pm

            Still seeing the trees and missing the forest, you strain out a gnat and swallow a camel. You’ve got to get focused on the bigger picture, just following the crowd don’t mean you’re right.



          • Gregg Powers on September 12, 2018 at 12:51 pm

            also do you know the difference between command and commandment? again friend, All SCRIPTURE….



          • Gregg Powers on September 12, 2018 at 1:30 pm

            I think we are done here. You reject large portions of scripture which are inconsistent with what you state. Hoping you friend the truth friend…..in Him



          • fessdo on September 12, 2018 at 3:13 pm

            Gregg,
            Ever heard the story about the poor man over seas that wanted to come to the U.S., well he worked and worked saving his money week after week year after year till one day he got enough money to buy a one way ticket to the U.S. plus one stick of bologna and one box of crackers. He counted out the crackers and knowing how many days it would take him to cross the ocean he had a figure as to how many he could eat three times a day. Each day he would walk on deck looking in the windows seeing all the people eating fine meals, but he would go to his room and divided out his bologna and crackers. He would also notice that some didn’t even clean their plate and he would think man if I could just have their left overs I would be so happy, but he would go back to his room for his few crackers and small slice of bologna. Then the last day of the trip arrived and he eat his last crackers, as he walked out of his room a man in a uniform stopped him and said “I work here on the ship and I have notice that you never eat at any of our buffets, why?, was the food not good enough”? The man explained that he only had enough money for the ticket, crackers, and bologna,,, but the worker on the ship stopped him and said “all the meals were included in the price of the ticket”.

            Gregg salvation is much more than Jesus just paying for our past sins, way much more. As for me I’m keeping my eyes on Jesus and not on the “don’t dos”.



          • fessdo on September 13, 2018 at 7:18 am

            Gregg,
            To answer your question, do I know the difference between command and commandment, the answer is yes. May I ask you a question, do you know the difference between Mercy and Grace ?



      • pradeep ivon on September 12, 2018 at 11:23 am

        thank you dear Fessdo and Hilton for a clear understanding of the so called “church” of today as i have personally experienced & observed this in the church we visit- having been also in the parish committee where i have seen the kind of manipulative aspirations of many. Indeed auditorium style sitting does not permit interactions among the members but only one way communication from pastor downwards. Yes i agree we are meant to be the church now, but we need to meet in a fellowship more often to edify and build each other up and also to move out in being a witness for our Lord Jesus, bring people to know him as the Only savior Lord and to heal the sick in his name.

        • fessdo on September 12, 2018 at 11:42 am

          pradeep ivon,
          You are so right and I hope that some of the church leaders see these comments and change their programs or maybe try a new thing an add Jesus in their message.

      • Gregg Powers on September 17, 2018 at 7:00 pm

        i cannot respond to your other post fessdo but you are right, all of us have sinned. We have no fear before God if we are earnestly trying to follow the Holy Spirit even though as you say, we will fail. God is able to forgive our sin in Christ just as He did David’s, Moses’s etc. The question is and always will be what is our heart before God. Hebrews 4:12. Here is where some get into trouble though. Those who claim Christ as Lord but refuse to try to submit to the Holy Spirit are in trouble. Now i know this sounds like works based salvation but it is not. It is submitting ourselves to where the Holy Spirit leads which is the natural path for someone devoted to Christ. The idea that we have nothing to do with our salvation, that we can live in rebellion to the Lord and be saved is the leading of the evil one. But i also want to remind us of Jesus’ teaching “For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.” We are to strive for righteousness and holiness. We can never achieve it without Christ, but we also must not live in rebellion to where the Holy Spirit leads. In short, we need not be perfect for we cannot be, but we are to strive to live as the Holy Spirit leads us. Also none of God’s people in the OT were perfect but consider the difference about what God said of the Israelites leaving Egypt and Moses (or David)…….this is the way i understand scripture.

    • Roger Ingram on September 13, 2018 at 12:25 pm

      The problem I see in this opinion is it is humanity focused and not God focused. All 11 points are centered around humans emotions, humans desires, humans involvement, etc., This is not what the bible is about. If you desire to know the bible more, it needs to be God centered. What are Gods desires, What does God want me involved in.

      • fessdo on September 13, 2018 at 5:10 pm

        Roger,
        If church isn’t to help humanity then what is it for? Or do you thing humanity doesn’t need any help?

        • fessdo on September 14, 2018 at 7:31 am

          Roger,
          I’ll help you out with an answer here before you write some churchy pat answer and embarrass you’re self,,,
          Luke 13:10-17 One Sabbath as Jesus was teaching in a synagogue, he saw a seriously handicapped woman who had been bent double for eighteen years and was unable to straighten herself. Calling her over to him Jesus said, “Woman, you are healed of your sickness!” He touched her, and instantly she could stand straight. How she praised and thanked God!
          But the local Jewish leader in charge of the synagogue was very angry about it because Jesus had healed her on the Sabbath day. “There are six days of the week to work,” he shouted to the crowd. “Those are the days to come for healing, not on the Sabbath!”
          But the Lord replied, “You hypocrite! You work on the Sabbath! Don’t you untie your cattle from their stalls on the Sabbath and lead them out for water? And is it wrong for me, just because it is the Sabbath day, to free this Jewish woman from the bondage in which Satan has held her for eighteen years?” This shamed his enemies. And all the people rejoiced at the wonderful things he did.
          Now Roger you wouldn’t want to be like those church leader and NOT take care of the woman’s problem would you.
          The problem with you and most church members is you all forget that helping people solve THIER problems is helping God.

          Matthew 25:44-45 “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’ “And I will answer, ‘When you refused to help the least of these my brothers, you were refusing help to me.
          So to say that my dear brother’s comment is “humanity focused” is a churchy cliché used to try to gain points with God, just as what the church leaders in Jesus’s day said and you saw what Jesus called them!!!

  33. Chris Hosmer on September 10, 2018 at 10:35 am

    Mine 42day.

    “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” (Matt 5:3)

    A poor in spirit person is easily convinced, ready to accept a new view in favor of their old one.
    This is good news when we walk with Christ, he can talk us out of our futility.

    “The one who lives by believing in me will never die” (Jn 11:26b)
    This means you get new life by listening to Christ and letting Him persuade you.

    In this case…you are truly blessed!

  34. Chris Hosmer on September 8, 2018 at 12:33 pm

    I like some of what Gregg Powers has to say.
    Try drilling down and questioning him on his real points instead of just trying to win.

    otherwise…

    You guys otta rotate your own tires if you need something to do….

    • Gregg Powers on September 8, 2018 at 1:21 pm

      thanks for the kind words Chris. I say before God that i have no desire for anyone else EXCEPT they get closer to God through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. May God bless each person on this site with that. in Him

    • fessdo on September 8, 2018 at 4:04 pm

      Chris you’re just wasting words cause no amount of fulminating or needling would cause me to go back living under the law like you and Gregg. When the Son has set you free you are free indeed. The amazing thing is how people who Jesus has set free still want to live under the law (works or a work mentality, like rotating tires) instead of grace, don’t feel bad the Galatians tried the same thing but thanks to Paul most didn’t stay that way. I’m hoping you don’t either.

      • Gregg Powers on September 8, 2018 at 5:27 pm

        Read ALL of Galatians. The Holy Spirit leads us to keep the law and more than the letter of the law; the spirit of the law as well. The Holy Spirit also leads us to hate sin if we are listening to Him. We have never been freed from the moral law because the Holy Spirit leads us to keep it. Jesus and Paul expressly reiterated parts of the moral law. In upholding it we love God and our fellow man just as Jesus said. Romans 8 teaches us that “For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.” Paul told the Galatians “The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.” Freedom from the law was never designed to allow us to live in sin. Let me state as plainly as possible. If you believe the freedom in Christ allows you to live in sin, you have a surprise in store for you. Hoping you find the truth…. in Him

        • fessdo on September 8, 2018 at 5:45 pm

          Gregg,
          Keep up the good WORKS but I have faith Jesus paid it all for me so all my works are useless. A good understanding of grace would do you wonders but first one must admit they could be wrong.

          • Gregg Powers on September 8, 2018 at 8:36 pm

            Paying for it makes no difference otherwise all would be saved. I do understand grace. I am praying for you to find the truth before the Lord says “why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what i say?” Praying for you friend……



          • fessdo on September 8, 2018 at 10:38 pm

            Paying for it makes all the differences but you have to receive it by faith not by your works.
            The Bible is universally known as “the Good Book” and rightly so. Its words are inspired and it will point you to Jesus. If you read the whole Bible through the lens of the cross, you will find redemption and life. If you read the written word to discover the Living Word, it will set you free.
            But when handled incorrectly the Bible is utterly lethal. Buried within lies the law which, the Bible fairly warns, ministers death (2 Cor 3:7). For thousands of years, men have been using the law-bits of the Bible to control and manipulate others. Their goal is to enslave and dominate and their tools are fear and condemnation.
            People have been living under self-imposed law ever since Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Jesus died to set us free from the curse of the law, yet some of us keep returning to the forbidden tree for another bite. Paul warned that we become “estranged from Christ” to the degree that we are under law (Gal 5:4). What makes the grace of God ineffectual in our lives? It is getting entangled again in religious notions about what it means to do the right thing.
            I’d like to think that if I’d been Adam, the first thing I would’ve built was a fence around that tree. Then I would’ve put warning signs all over that fence. It’s too late for that now, but it’s not too late to put warning signs all around the law.



          • boglene@yahoo.com on September 9, 2018 at 12:22 am

            “Praying for you friend……” under this context, is a condescending response. You have now declared yourself morally superior, but you will take pity on them and now hand it off to God, because you tried. It is the standard response when the rebuttal gets sideways, off the tracks, or becomes compelling. The Sermon On The Mount taught to us to speak to our brother if at odds. It didn’t say to pray for them so God can do the hard work for you. I commend your work, but this endeavor that you have chosen comes the greatest scrutiny there is. Make better arguments instead of taking the standard cheap shot, or just let it go and move on. The only thing accomplished from that response was driving this person further away from where you wanted them to go.



          • fessdo on September 9, 2018 at 8:05 am

            Seven signs that you may be under law
            1. You’re not 100% sure if you’re 100% forgiven
            God doesn’t do forgiveness in installments. All your sins were forgiven at the cross (Col 2:13) when God the Son abolished sin by the sacrifice of Himself (Heb 9:26). Neither God the Father (Heb 8:12) nor God the Holy Spirit (Heb 10:17) remembers your sin any more. Still not convinced? Then read this.
            2. You believe Christians have a duty or responsibility to serve the Lord
            Duty and responsibility are synonyms for obligation so this is a mind-set that says we are obliged, or indebted, to God. I’ve heard it said that “Jesus has done so much for you, what will you do for Him?” Indeed, God has given us everything. Ever wondered why? He did it “that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus” (Eph 2:7). He is not just rich in grace, but exceedingly rich. You cheapen His grace by thinking you have a duty or responsibility to pay Him back. Your responsibility is to believe that He is good and true! It is not our obligation to serve the Lord, it is our royal privilege. It is not our duty, but our great delight.
            3. You suffer from performance anxiety.
            Performance anxiety is a rational response to the uncertainty of life under the old covenant. But anxiety has no place in the new. We are to draw water from the wells of salvation with joy (Is 12:3). We walk under law in anxiety and fear, but we walk under grace with joy and thanksgiving! “Happy are those whose wrongs are forgiven, whose sins are pardoned! Happy is the person whose sins the Lord will not keep account of!” (Rms 4:7-8, GNB) God has made us His Sons, and with such a Father we need not be worried about anything (Mt 6:32). He is our Provider who delights to give good gifts to those who ask Him (Mt 7:11). Those who serve under the law are insecure, but sons are secure.
            4. You think, “God will bless me as I do my part”
            The essence of a life enslaved by law is the mindset that says, “I must do something for God.” The motivation may be to earn salvation or some other blessing. But this mindset is anti-Christ and anti-cross. Contrary to what you may think, we are not justified by what we do but grace alone (Rms 3:24). Grace and works don’t mix (Rms 11:6). (And if you’re thinking of James 2:24, read this.) Grace, peace, and every spiritual blessing have been given to us by God our Father through Jesus Christ (Eph 1:3). We are not called to work for God, but to do the work of God. (Click the link to learn more about mixing grace with works.)
            Grace is God’s part; faith is our part (Eph 2:8). Faith is a positive response to what God has done. Faith is saying, “thank you Jesus!” Faith is healing the sick and casting out demons, because Jesus made provision for our healing and deliverance at the cross.
            5. You think we need more preaching on repentance.
            Repentance saves lives, but preaching on repentance doesn’t lead to repentance! A law mind-set emphasizes what people must do (repent!), but grace proclaims what God has already done (everything!). A law mindset uses inferior incentives (fear, judgment) that lead to temporary changes in behavior, but grace (God is good and He loves you!) changes the hardest heart. If you want people to genuinely repent, preach the goodness of God (Rms 2:4).
            6. You think you have to overcome life’s trials or Jesus will blot out your name.
            It really isn’t about you. Jesus is our overcomer and our victory (Jn 16:33). Everyone who believes Jesus is the Son of God has already overcome the world, because The Overcomer lives in them (1 Jn 5:4-5). Jesus promised the overcomers at Sardis that He would never blot out their name. Ever since then insecure performance-oriented believers have feared He might change His mind and do exactly that. For more on overcoming, read this.
            7. You mainly think of following Jesus in terms of giving up things.
            Christianity is a divine exchange, our life for his. No doubt you’ve heard people say that following Jesus costs you everything. And it does. You cannot call him Lord without renouncing the right to your own life. But see what you get in exchange! If salvation means nothing more to you than self-denial and personal sacrifice, you’ve missed the whole point. Christ offers us an unfair exchange; our life for His. God favors us with this exchange. We give him our sinful little selves and get everything in return. A law mindset looks at what we give up, but a grace mindset rejoices at what He offers in return! Stop thinking about what you gave up (nothing you could keep) and start enjoying what He has given you (everything!).



          • Neil on September 10, 2018 at 1:00 pm

            “Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness” (James 3:1).

            You make compelling arguments fessdo, and you are being heard. This is for real.



          • fessdo on September 10, 2018 at 2:32 pm

            Thank God somebody’s paying attention.



          • Gregg Powers on September 10, 2018 at 3:36 pm

            That which you posted is full of 1/2 truths. It is from an errant human teacher. Would you like to go through point by point? Let me just start you off with the first. Paying for sins and forgiveness of sins are different else the whole world would be saved. If you want to understand scripturally the difference let me know. God does forgive in installments. That is what scripture teaches. There is no place in all of scripture (including the OT) where God has forgiven or taken away sin in advance of its commission. Furthermore, we are told explicitly that PAST sins have been forgiven (2 Peter 1:9 among others). Once God has forgiven us, that sin is removed from us and we need not worry about it again. There are other passages which are quite clear about continuing sin. Let me know if you want these. Friend, if you keep following men you are going to have a problem. Get into scripture and understand the breadth of what it says. I will be glad to lead you point by point using the breadth of scripture……in Him



          • Neil on September 10, 2018 at 4:26 pm

            I believe that we are accountable for how we spend our time on earth. I was complementing your eloquence. The serpent was also compelling, and he was heard.



          • fessdo on September 10, 2018 at 6:29 pm

            Gregg,
            In your world the best a person could hope for is the minute after you’re born again die. That would be the only hope to enter heaven since Jesus told the rich young ruler “there’s none good”, but I got news God’s not mad anymore He’s not even in a bad mood and Jesus didn’t do a half way job. To put such a burden on people has zero grace and all law. It shows you haven’t study on the great grace that Paul taught.



          • Gregg Powers on September 10, 2018 at 7:19 pm

            I offered to address your ideas point by point from scripture. I will tell you again: stop trusting in men and trust in God and His word for “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth.| God Bless.



        • Stu on September 10, 2018 at 4:39 pm

          Gregg, in another comment, you share what you believe Scripture says about Jesus forgiveness of sins—past, present, and future. You disagree with this.

          Can you help me understand the following?
          “If that were the case, you and I would lose our salvation every day–because we sin every day. Even if our actions are pure, our thoughts often are not. And even if our actions and thoughts are pure, we still sin because of the good things we should be doing but fail to do.

          Since our salvation does not depend on us and how good we are, but rather depends solely on Christ and what He has already done for us through His death on the cross, Scripture says that Christ “appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself” (Hebrews 9:26).

          Does that mean it doesn’t matter whether or not we sin? “No, of course not. Sin is serious; it is an offense to God, and it breaks our fellowship with Him. Sin also compromises our witness for Christ. The Bible is clear: “Be holy, because I am holy” (1 Peter 1:16).”

          Therefore, I am wondering if you might clarify what you mean when you said, “There is no place in all of scripture (including the OT) where God has forgiven or taken away sin in advance of its commission.” I thought this is the very reason Christ died on the cross for us—to take away all sin.

          I am not in agreement with you. Could you clarify what you mean

          • Gregg Powers on September 10, 2018 at 5:17 pm

            Stu. Thanks for the question. To answer specifically God is able to forgive our sins even if we do not confess them. However the question is always the heart before God.

            Consider this verse. ” For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

            Payment for all sins was done at the cross (in fact the sins of the world). But forgiveness comes when we accept Jesus Christ for all past sins. When we are faithful and confess our sins, God will forgive us and it is those sins that are forever removed from us. If with a true heart we forget to confess our sins, God is still able to forgive us in Christ. But if we don’t listen to the Holy Spirit, if we don’t try to avoid sin, and we refuse to humble ourselves before God acknowledging our sin, we are living in rebellion and the verse above is relevant.

            If all sins were fully forgiven at the cross, then all would be saved (including those who don’t know Christ). If all sins were forgiven when we accepted Christ, then those sinning wilfully would not be subject to judgment as shown in the verse above. Remember those above are described as “sanctified” by the blood of Christ. We are, per 1 John 1:9 to confess our sins and then God is faithful to forgive them. There is no need for a man who is fully and permanently justified (declared righteous) to be cleansed from unrighteousness. since they would already be clean. Sin is unrighteousness; that is stated a couple of verses later. Christ died to pay for all sin and provide an eternal sacrifice for sin that we might be forgiven on an ongoing basis, but the idea that we can live in sin since all were paid for is not scriptural.

            Let me ask a question to you (not saying you do this). Do you believe if all future sins are really forgiven once we accept Jesus Christ,. that no matter how much sin one chooses to live in it has no impact on their eternal destiny? We must tap into Jesus’ eternal sacrifice (Hebrews 10:11-12) and be faithful seeking the forgiveness of the Father and then God is faithful to forgive us. Forgiveness requires our humble heart before the Lord. What Jesus did in paying for sins had nothing to do with us.

            Finally, I don’t understand the verse you reference to teach what you see (James 4:17). If we understand this to mean we are always sinning because we don’t always (that is every minute) doing good, we find ourselves in conflict with Romans 6. As such, i see this verse as telling (look at the context before this verse) that if we reject the Lord’s will, shown us through the Holy Spirit, then we are sinning. If fact we are told in another verse that anything not of faith is sin. So if the Holy Spirit leads us to do something and we refuse, it is sin. Not that by simply watching TV we are sinning because we are not out sharing the gospel (unless we are led to share). So our commitment must be to live faithfully, not simply have an intellectual faith in Jesus Christ. Intellectual faith did not work out for the Angels or the Israelites leaving Egypt. This idea that we constantly live in sin is misrepresentation of much of the Modern Church and wholly inconsistent with scripture. We all sin, but we are to try as you said, to avoid sin. I respectfully invite anyone to demonstrate in scripture where God has forgiven sin in advance of its commission. It simply does not happen.

            I hope this helps. For what its worth Stu i am greatly encouraged by your understanding of the gravity of sin before a just and holy God and the price our Lord paid so that we might have forgiveness……in Him



          • Gregg Powers on September 10, 2018 at 5:28 pm

            I would offer one more point Stu, While we agree completely that our salvation does not depend on how “good we are” our salvation depends on our faith. That is the foundation. We see in scripture compromised, dead and shipwrecked faith. Our true and abiding faith leads us to follow where the Holy Spirit leads. But being indwelt by the Holy Spirit is not the same as following the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:25). Remember what scripture says “Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God” Romans 8:12-14. A true faith leads us to follow the Holy Spirit. I always use the example of the bandleader. If we are going where the bandleader is leading we are following. If we turn around and walk the other way, we are no longer are being led by the bandleader. The same exists with the Holy Spirit……in Him.



          • Gregg Powers on September 10, 2018 at 5:29 pm

            Finally, may i respectfully ask you pray about this?



          • Stu on September 10, 2018 at 6:54 pm

            Gregg,

            The problem I genuinely have about so many followers of Jesus on this site is that they never seem to have a fault. I am grateful for your thoughts, how the Spirit leads you, and of course the Scriptures themselves. But reality is that we all sin, and when we appear above that, we do not sound realistic. We all wear masks—everyone of us—and to the extent that we do, we can neither receive love nor give it; only the mask gets the credit.

            I am not here, nor desire to be here, pretending I have all the answers to peoples’ questions. I listen and decide in my heart, and by trying to verify by reading the Word, whether or not I accept what the writer is revealing and sharing. Christians are at different places in their walk with Christ, but it does not mean they are devoid of wisdom or knowledge because they admit to not having all of the answers. It really is frustrating when people who communicate with other believers tend to, with unspoken words, try to make themselves look exempt from the comments they themselves make by virtue of the fact that they never admit to being flawed and blemished. This becomes a thorn of distrust in my side quite frankly.

            I am glad that you take great pride in desiring to help others grow. I am not taking that away from you. But the masks that we wear must come down before others feel less guarded when they are asking questions, or seeking advice. We all want to be right, and we all want to give others perfect answers, but I must confess immediately that I am horribly imperfect, and need Christ in my life every moment. If I cannot say that, and mean it, then I am only bluffing. Sadly, many have come here assaulting other people’s character, and insulting them personally because they need to pedestalize themselves. When I listen to you, I try to hear what you are saying. When I look at myself in the mirror, I need neither be too shy, nor too prideful; I can learn from others, even if they may not be as knowledgeable. Do I sound like mud here, or do I sound like I am making any sense? Some of what I wrote applies to others; take whatever applies to you, for I certainly can apply it to myself.



          • Gregg Powers on September 10, 2018 at 7:31 pm

            Stu. I got your follow up but am confused. What mask do i have? What is my self serving agenda? Why would I do this if not for love of others? Please ask yourself that. I am not pointing you at a church, don’t want you to follow me, or even listen to me. Its is why i asked you to pray. I responded to claims of another man with scripture and you challenged that. I responded. I don’t think i said anywhere that i do not sin. So just to be clear I do sin. But it is my fervent goal not to sin just as our Lord taught, just as Paul taught. This is where the Holy Spirit inside us leads. If we are not committed to avoiding sin, we are not committed to listening to the Holy Spirit. All ideas of contriteness, admitting our sin, i mentioned in the prior post. But we must never trivialize sin. I will offer if you would like to go through your concerns point by point from scripture. However this forum because of the problems in responding is probably not the right place. If not, no problem but i earnestly recommend that you pray to God to see what He thinks about the idea of us sinning all the time…….God Bless. in Him G



          • fessdo on September 10, 2018 at 7:36 pm

            Gregg,
            Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
            9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.



        • Stu on September 10, 2018 at 8:07 pm

          Thx Gregg for your comments. You said, “…I earnestly recommend that you pray to God to see what He thinks about the idea of us sinning all the time.”

          Here is an example of what I mean. First, you commend my understanding about realizing how sinful we are, and then infer I must pray about the idea of sinning all the time. I could not agree more than until we as Christians realize how black sin is and what it means to hate sin in some fashion as God hates sin, we cannot know Christianity in any mature sense of the word. But to appear to presume I am necessarily void of that knowledge by prescribing I pray about it—without ever having asked me—is what I mean by wearing a mask. Whoever got the idea that because I sin, I find it any more tasteful or attractive than you? That is a far, left-field comment to me, and the unspoken implication is that you are a “better” Christian. which in and of itself has no meaning at all. On our very best day, God calls us “filthy rags,” and if He did not wrap around us His Robe of Righteousness—always—we wouldn’t make it. You have a gift, Gregg, and perhaps I may be misunderstanding you, but you are right; this is not the platform to get into it. Wishing you the best in Christ.
          Stu