You hear it all the time.

I’m done with church.

I don’t really need to go to church…my relationship with God is personal.

I’ve had it with organized religion.

The church is a man-made invention, not God’s idea.

I completely understand why a growing number of people are bailing on church. Even people who used to lead in the church often stop attending (here are 9 reasons why church leaders do that).

We’ve spent a lot of time working through the issue of declining church attendance (and growing disillusionment with the church) on this blog and in my leadership podcast. (For a summary of the issues, here’s a piece on the 10 reasons even committed church attenders are attending church less often).

I get it.

The church is far from perfect. Life is complex. There are growing options. And the post-modern mind distrusts most things organized or institutional.

But as trendy as the idea of writing off the church may be, it’s a mistake.

While writing off the church passes as sophisticated thinking, it’s actually the opposite; what if it’s a simplistic and even reductionistic line of thinking that leads nowhere constructive?

The church isn’t even biblical, is it?

People argue the idea of church isn’t even biblical.

So let’s start with the basics.

First if you’re a Christian, church is not something you go to. It’s something you are.

You can’t disassociate from church as a Christian anymore than you can disassociate from humanity as a person.

You don’t go to church. You are the church.

Second, the church was not a human invention. Half-reading the New Testament with one eye closed will still lead you to the inescapable conclusion that the church was God’s idea.

In fact, most of the New Testament is not about the teachings of Jesus. It’s about the work of the church that Jesus initiated and ordained. I won’t fill this post with scripture verses that prove my point, because, quite frankly, you’d have to get rid of the majority of the New Testament to argue that the church was a parenthetical, made-up organization.

If you want to get rid of the church, you also need to get rid of Jesus.

You can’t have one without the other.

Maybe what bothers you should actually amaze you

I understand that the idea of the church being imperfect makes some people despair.

But rather than making us despair, the fact that Jesus started the church with imperfect people should make us marvel at God’s incredible grace.

That God would use ordinary, broken human beings as vessels of his grace, and delight in it is awe-inspiring. He’s proud of how his grace is beating through your imperfect-but-redeemed life and through the church (have you ever read Ephesians 3: 10-11?).

The idea that God would use you and me is pretty amazing. He had other options.

He could have spoken to the world directly, but instead chose to use broken people to showcase his grace to a world in need of redemption.

For sure, community is messy.

People sin. Leaders are sinful.

Most of the New Testament is not a story of an idealized church where everything worked perfectly all the time (just read 1 Corinthians any time you’re frustrated with your church).

Most of the New Testament is a story of Jesus using his followers to spread his love in spite of themselves and as they overcome obstacle after obstacle.

The fact that Christ uses flawed people to accomplish his work on earth is actually a sign of his grace, not a sign of his absence.

The church’s story, as twisted as it gets at times, is a beautiful story of God’s grace, God’s power and God’s redemption.

So, by the way, is your life, which reflects the story of the church more than you would want to admit.

The church gives the world a front row seat to the grace of God.

The ultimate consumerism isn’t going to church…it’s walking away from it

People criticize the church today as being consumeristic. And to some extent, churches cater to consumerism—often to our detriment. I agree that consumerism is a problem for Christianity.

But ironically, much of the dialogue about why people are done with church pushes people deeper into Christian consumerism than it pushes them into deeper discipleship: Here I am, all alone, worshipping God on my schedule when it’s convenient for me.

Listening to a podcast of your favourite preacher while you’re at the gym or on the back deck and pushing three of your favourite worship songs through your ear buds does not make you a more passionate Christ follower.

It usually makes you a less effective one.

Disconnecting yourself from community is actually less faithful than connecting yourself to a flawed community.

If you think the church today isn’t enough (and arguably, we need to reform it), then do what the early Christians did.

If you want a more biblical church…don’t gather weekly, gather daily. Before dawn.

Get up before the sun rises to pray together with other Christians before you go to work. Pool your possessions. Don’t claim anything as your own.

Be willing to lose your job, your home, your family and even your life because you follow Jesus.

Then you’ll be more authentic.

And notice that the early church did indeed gather. 

Gathering always leads to some form of organizing.

To pretend the church doesn’t need to be organized is as logical arguing that society doesn’t need to be organized.

Because community is inevitable, organization is inevitable.

Our ability to organize and to accomplish more together than we can alone is one of the crowning achievements of humanity, and our ability to work together makes Christian effort far more effective. 

It’s also part of God’s design for how we should interact while we’re on this planet. Come to think of it, heaven is a community too.

The only one who wants us to believe that we are better off alone is our enemy.

If you really think about it, it’s actually a very clever tactic.

The church has helped even those who resent the church

Finally, if you’re reading this article and you have any modicum of faith in Jesus, may I suggest your faith is actually the result of the mission of the church.

Very few people come to know Jesus because he appears to them supernaturally when they are alone and calls them by name.

Does that ever happen? Sure. But not to 99.9% of us.

Almost all of us who follow Jesus have had our lives changed by a flawed body called the church that Jesus so passionately loves and calls his own.

Think about that.

We need more church

Do we need more churches? Yes.

Do we need more humble churches? We do.

Do you we need authentic, transparent leadership? Absolutely.

Does the church need to change? Without a doubt.

The church needs continual reformation and transformation.

So what will the future look like?

Will we gather in quite the way we do today in the future? In some ways yes; in others, no.

Hopefully we gather more frequently and work through our differences at a deeper level and impact our communities more powerfully.

These two posts offer 10 predictions about future church attendance and 11 traits of churches that will impact the future.

But regardless of how the church gathers in the future, we will gather…we need to gather.

We Christians need each other, probably now more than ever.

And even if you don’t think you need other Christians, I promise you you do, and so does our world.

Now, more than ever, the world needs Christian working together humbly under Christ to lead people into a growing relationship with him, in whatever innovate and fresh forms that takes.

The church is not dead.

Far from it.

Maybe it’s just beginning to take shape for a brand new era that desperately needs it.

A Response To Christians Who Are Done With Church

1,866 Comments

  1. Peni Varani on April 15, 2021 at 6:07 pm

    Quiet interesting and find new logical facts!!! It is, as far as I am concerned, spiritual food for everyone on this Spiritual realm on hand. Recommend it for every born again Christian!! Amen

  2. Marianna on April 9, 2021 at 5:28 pm

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    Hope this will help. Thank you.

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  4. Thomas Boston on March 31, 2021 at 7:53 pm

    hello and good day
    Christians that are done with Church topic?
    WOW if i say so my self since scripture states
    forsake ye not he congregation of the Lord
    i have not been to church because i am tired of
    fake Believers i won’t speak against any church
    by name in particular here in Connecticut i have been involved
    with three different Churches all fake sorry People
    that will help everyone accept the person standing next to them
    the lord went and found the lost sheep
    i actually has a pastor tell me he did not care if i attended service
    that was the last straw
    i really loved participating in service especially singing
    do you happen to know any churches that stand on who they say they are
    i am sure it is not the church but the differences between the congregations
    member favorite’s and clicks if you don ‘t fit in then
    chances are you won’t serve in any of the ministries and that is Sad
    not to mention a complete contradiction Have a blessed day and be blessed all

  5. Will Scholten on March 27, 2021 at 9:22 am

    I went to church 58 years of my life, where we are taught scripture alone, was a elder, deacon and high school youth leader with my wife, for many many years.
    Then I did a study on why the 3 biggest days in the church are nowhere in scripture, now I know none of the churches days are in the Bible!!!So who do you follow?
    examples;
    Passion week We are taught palm Sunday, Good Friday and Easter sunrise, that doesn’t fit the scripture, does it!
    If the Triumphant Entry was on a Sunday, ( the 10th of Nisan/Abib, when you choose your Passover lamb) Friday would be the 15th, right, that is a high Sabbath, Passover is on the 14th right!!! The sign of Jonah tells us He was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, impossible to get that from sunset Friday to before sunrise on Sunday, right!!
    The scriptures tell us the Triumphant Entry was on a 7th day Sabbath, on the 10th, Passover was on a Wednesday, the 14th, in the grave just before sunset, 3 days and 3 nights latter would be on the 7th day Sabbath and He rose just before sunset, fits perfect!!!
    Why do you keep Christmas, most people know He was not born in Dec., so why listen to the world???
    Search me on youtube for my studies for proof ” Will Scholten”
    I now tell people if they are in the church, to run away, as fast as you can go, because they make sure, you will never make it past the fiery lake of sulfur!!!

    • Gordon on March 27, 2021 at 9:43 am

      We basically agreed on those days so that we would all celebrate and take remembrance to these events at the same time, and to replace all the pagan holidays so they wouldn’t be celebrated anymore. They never were supposed to be taken literally.
      The fighting about all of this within the empire prompted the emperor himself to hold all the orthodox bishops at gunpoint to come, agree to one plan, and stop quarreling about it (among other things).From out of Nicaea they stopped relying on the Hebrew calendar, and established Trinity Doctrine, which is also not directly in the Bible. Is that demonic too?
      What also came out of Nicea was the computus, to calculate Easter, with the rest of the holy week being shoved in wherever we thought to fit it. Then we eventually produced the lectionary, which is why the sermons on the radio all seem to be about similar things each Lord’s Day: every Sunday has scheduled sections of the Bible to teach on . It helps make sure cover the whole of the Bible.
      The traditions aren’t IN the Bible of course, but they’re useful. Paul wrote a lot about this. It’s okay to observe holidays as long as we celebrate them in God. (Romans 14).

  6. Connie on March 18, 2021 at 12:19 pm

    Wow! Lots of comments. I will keep this brief. I think you lose people if you go too long. The article is spot on. The Church is the bride of Christ.

    Are human churches imperfect, of course, we live in an imperfect world. But join a Bible believing Church and be a part of the solution, not the problem. God made us to worship with other believers, the church fosters this demand of God.

    You can not grow as a Christian if you don’t go to church and fellowship with other believers. If you stay out of church, you will forever be a baby Christian. That is not what God wants. Love God by obeying him and Love your neighbors by serving them. God bless.

    • Gordon on March 27, 2021 at 9:46 am

      True, though a season of hermitage can be useful from time to time. If only it weren’t involuntary!

  7. FaithIsAGift on March 13, 2021 at 2:51 am

    In the modern church love, mercy and grace is reserved for the ones that fit. 48 years of going to churches has shown that. The blood stained allies always need an enemy to build the brotherhood on both close and far. If God is any part of church I want no part of God. Live in a firm belief the church threw God out and uses his blue print to build earthly kingdoms. If there is a lie in the church today it is pride in many ways. At least in american church in my opinion.

  8. Cam Zafar on February 3, 2021 at 10:07 am

    New Testament is not what Jesus Christ taught or what his disciples wrote down. Nor is Old Testament what Moses taught. One doesn’t have to look outside the Bible to reach these conclusions. Most Christians have not read the Bible cover to cover. One’s who have, haven’t done so analytically. Please read “Age of Reason” by Thomas Paine thought by many to be among the Founding Fathers of America.

    It is closer to blasphemy than righteousness for God to have intercourse with a human being resulting in human-God hybrid.

    Note that if Christ was God, then all his suffering is fake. His true greatness lies in him being human and human only.

    We are not eternally condemned by God by having being born in sin w/o having a way out of it.

    There is absolutely no proof of Christ’s being divine, or having come back from the dead for atonement. These are claims without proofs.

    Christ taught us to worship the father just like he himself did.

    • David Lyons on February 8, 2021 at 9:12 am

      “Note that if Christ was God, then all his suffering is fake. His true greatness lies in him being human and human only.”

      This is the mystery of how Christ is both fully human and at the same time be fully divine. It is also a matter of the mystery of the Holy Trinity. There are many people today still trying to rob Christ of His glory. The choice is between the arrogance of human reason or faith!

      • Joella on February 8, 2021 at 1:10 pm

        What I believe Jesus was trying to teach was that we each are fully divine and fully human. His epiphany at his baptism was exactly that. his ability to call on God during his greatest temptations (which were very typical ego temptations) were about that. His telling people that their sins were forgiven was coming from his own experience of his sins not condemning him, not his having supernatural powers to forgive sins. if he taught that the greatest of the laws was to love God and neighbour, he was not saying Worship some avatar of divine/human capacities that you need to submit to in order to keep a wrathful God from punishing you. Avatars have served people throughout history, whether they be actual idols or heroes in books. The crime is trying to insist that your Avatar is the only one of any true value and that everyone else is condemned if they can’t accept yours.

        • Gordon on February 12, 2021 at 3:32 pm

          In antiquity, Christians believed that Jesus, like today, is the one true avatar of closeness to God, no questions asked. We are certain that the Son is the only way to the Father.
          Questions is if the Church is the only way to the son. I don’t believe that any more. I believe that ἀγάπη (in english translates to Charity when a noun and preferential love when a verb) is the way to Christ, and that the Church is the purposed teacher of αγάπη. This was ruined by Constantine, Athanasius, and Chrystosome among others.
          Also we must remember that what is translated as “faith,” “belief,” and “being convinced,” are all one word in greek, πίϛεως.

      • Aggeliki on March 9, 2021 at 9:35 am

        his suffering is not fake
        he suffered for us wretched beings

        Humans are gone they are lost

        Religion is within us going to church is going top visit God
        Jesus Christ The Virgin Mary

        never mind the people in the church
        unfortunately all humans were created by God
        but they do not all follow Jesus Christ as they should

        if Jesus Christ knows us not
        we will pass away and God will not know us
        he will say
        I know you not
        who are you

        we must visit Jesus Christ in his home
        we must build a relationship with him

        praying at home is not enough
        it helps
        but it is not enough

        we must confess our sins

        we must receive Holy Communion regularly

        • Philip Clinton Thompson Jr on March 10, 2021 at 7:45 am

          The Virgin Mary has nothing to do with anything homie. Go back and read the bible and quit putting importance on things that are not highlighted by God’s word.

    • Jim Scaggs on February 27, 2021 at 7:07 pm

      Hummm ok yeah Jesus did claim to be God and yeah Jesus rose from the dead

  9. JEAN ANNE MATTOON on January 11, 2021 at 3:09 pm

    Yes, most churches are not emphasizing end time prophecy. But what are we to do? Not go to church simply for that reason? I myself attend such a church because I could find none better. They preach the gospel, and love Jesus! And that love shows in the members of the church. Yes, we can (and I myself do) listen to preachers who teach on end time prophecy. But they do not give us the Christian fellowship we so desperately need. I hope that current unfolding events will open their eyes to take a closer look at end time prophecy and match it up with what we are experiencing.

  10. Gordon on January 9, 2021 at 6:04 pm

    We aren’t sick of the organized Church because it’s imperfect. We’re sick of it because it is evil. It is rotten to the very core. Holy Spirit only moves in spite of it, not because of it.Christian worship is imitating Jesus, not licking his boots.
    Our Church preaches a God who arranged your birth in sin and threatens you with God’s infinite punishment if you follow your natural instincts and slip up once in your whole lifetime, then promises not to mete out that ridiculous punishment if you give it your money, confess its doctrine and do what says. That is not a liberating thing. It gives no freedom in Jesus, and denies God’s love in everything but direct profession.
    It makes the core of the Gospel into a sick and twisted doublethink: of God’s unstoppable love but even greater wrath; of Jesus beating Adam’s sin but even greater concupiscence and Original Sin; of a God who didn’t give up on us after Adam, but damns most of us for not kissing up; a God who is not the author of evil, but ordains it using proxies to do his dirty work.
    That’s not God. Any group that teaches this is a Mosque, not a Church. If this absurd evil can’t be reformed, then it needs to be burned down and rebuilt, just like the Temple.
    Every scientific, mystical or practical approach to God in the Church died 1600 years ago. All else is misanthropic brainwashing using selectively edited texts with the rest censored until archeologists dug up its buried feces. Its hearts and minds are shut, and it makes excuses for Crusaders, Slavetraders and Nazis. There’s nothing even remotely Holy about the church today except by coincidence.
    That’s why we’re sick of Church.

    • Mark on January 10, 2021 at 2:10 pm

      Does your church not preach a gospel of grace?

      • Gordon on January 10, 2021 at 3:52 pm

        Conditional grace isn’t grace at all, especially when the wrath is unconditional. Original Sin teaches that God hates you for who you are and how you were born, enough to torture infinitely if you don’t get right with him, never reforming or putting you out of your misery but sustaining you in torment to stroke his ego, unless you force him to have grace on you by hiding behind Jesus’s flesh. That’s a protection racket, not grace.

        • Mark on January 24, 2021 at 8:02 pm

          If that is the case, why are you a member of a church?

          • Gordon on January 24, 2021 at 8:15 pm

            Who says I am or ain’t? Which church do you mean: my town’s congregation, the Nicaean churches or the church universal? Does it matter?
            It’s neither here nor there regarding what I just said, though. We teach that sin is more powerful than grace, for sin cannot be chosen, while grace must be chosen.



        • Joella on February 7, 2021 at 1:26 pm

          I have had to deal with the evil of the “gospel” just as you describe, leading me to infer from the abuse I suffered in my family of origin that I must deserve to be sacrificed for the sake of others. It seems to me that those who find “salvation” in the church’s doctrines do not really pay attention to how what is taught is anathema to an all-loving God. Their emotional soothing from their sense of belonging and being somehow part of the chosen does not push them to really look at what you describe. The idea that a God of wrath is what causes the bad things in our world is from pre-scientific thought structures and from times before there was enough physical security to give time for theological debate. Most of the Old Testament was written during the Babylonian exile of the Northern Israelites when they actually lived in an empire that allowed much leisure time and had advanced writing, etc. What was included in the New Testament was greatly influenced by Augustine in the third century CE, a man who HATED his body and his sex drive in great degree because his mother, a fundamentalist believer in being “saved” the “Right” way, could not accept the son born to Augustine’s unbelieving and “unsaved” lover as a legitimate offspring. Augustine describes his choice of celibacy (his beloved died, as did his beloved son quite young) in his autobiography Confessions, where he is finally able to soothe his mother’s fears of his going to Hell by giving up love entirely. He so desires to be like his mother, who was, as he describes, a slave to his abusive father. How does this lead to what Jesus tried to teach about a “Daddy” who did NOT need sacrifices (why Jesus threw over the tables selling the dead creatures for sacrifice) except from our inner acceptance of God’s power to help us overcome our instinctive reactions that God created in us, not condemned us for (that is, finding how to allow “grace” to help us). Keep seeking for peace, Gordon. It is a worthy task that helps us create the thinking, caring, images of an all-loving God/world.

        • Al on March 14, 2021 at 10:51 am

          You are a self righteous hypocrite who likes to judge.

          • Gordon on March 14, 2021 at 7:07 pm

            How so?



    • Simon Watila on January 18, 2021 at 6:05 am

      Sir, if the Church you attend or attended is as bad as you say, then don’t give up. Try, try and try, again, and you will succeed at last. Keep looking for a better church, they are out there; at last you will find a good one. The author of the is article said it well, there is no perfection out there, whether it is in the church or our neighborhood, workplace or sports team. We are flawed. I, too stopped going to Church for years, but dropped into various churches over two decades until I attended a church on the campus of the University of Maiduguri, Nigeria, and had a great experience. I have been a member for over 6 years now and enjoying the experience.

      • Gordon on January 24, 2021 at 8:30 pm

        I can’t safely go to physical church right now. But what I have been able to do is compare doctrines that are presented to the world by the church through the internet, then compare them to the Bible, an interlinear, logical reasoning, and a sense of justice. And what I see when lining them up against each other is sickening.
        Someone is lying to us about God, and I am not going to abide by it.

        • Philip Immaraj on January 26, 2021 at 2:28 pm

          I wonder Gordon, who taught you about God being wrathful and allowed sin o be inflicted on His own creation so as to make them feel guilty and emotionally unsound so the frightened sheep have no choice because of the sheepdog nipping at our heels?
          I see a love story gleaned over years of patient study of God’s character, asking for insight from the Holy Spirit, forgetting all that is past and looking to the future in joy. The church embodies the joy in me despite all the ugliness I see everywhere around me. (Including the church). The result of my study of God’s character is the fruit of the Holy Spirit within me spreading love to others.
          Despite a story (reading between the lines of the Bible of a wrathful, contriving Despot, to get his sheep by whatever method!) I glean The Spirit of God beckoning me into an eternal safe haven ruled by Love among like-minded worshippers of their acknowledged Creator.
          So why do I go to church? I go to search for people to help. Both to minister to, learn from in humility esteeming the others. When others fail, flail, or fault then my love inspires me to worship and pray or sing with them, to walk along with them as some have walked with me. I love to journey giving a helping hand or teaching the younger and learning from the older.
          When members in my family struggle with me, they have a safe family to get help from. When my relatives are far away, they become my family to celebrate with!!

          I can see you have a deep, thoughtful insight into the OT God and also of the NT Jesus but wondering where exactly does the church fit in.
          This pathetic, bumbling set of egotistical, zealous misdirected disciples (actually think of the “chosen” Twelve) transform after death to be a righteous Bride.

        • Kai on February 12, 2021 at 1:51 pm

          People can’t seem to get it, QUESTION everything. How do you Chris h going folks not see that there are many churches that in fact leech in its meme era and actively spread false word. There’s more evil entwined in Christianity than people want to admit. Have faith, believe in what you want! But if you can’t looked deeper into what you are following you never cared in the first place. You are not doing justice to yourself if you’re not willing to find the truth for your own conclusions.
          There have been thousands of civilizations all with their own cultures and religions and yet we’re just supposed to write those off and suppress them because it doesn’t fit Christianity? Buddhism, Hinduism, belief in spirituality Both have been around far longer than Christianity, Judaism or Muslim beliefs. And yet we’ve actively killed, raped and destroyed centuries of information and peoples birth rights under the name of “God” and missionaries. You can’t force a religion on millions of people around the world and not expect those to question the lies and false facts around. How are you supposed to believe in 6 different versions of a book that is just an amalgamation of a bunch of stories put together by a select few people who could read and write. Leaving out millions of people to be lied to our have the gospel used against them.
          Again, you should be able to have faith in whatever YOU chose to believe in. But to be blind is to be stripped of the truth you seek, never just sit there and accept your fate. Challenge it, shape your life. The power resides in us. We are the only ones who give power to the names in which we speak. Gods have come and go due to these modern religious views and it’s sickening to see how many sheep don’t care.

    • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 5:12 am

      Wow..😯

      • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 5:58 am

        You want to see people get up in arms and angry? Talk about the Christian Church! Not Muslim, Buddhism, Hindu or even atheism. Why? Because Satan hates followers of Christ. Actually he hates everyone because we are all made in God’s image. But he doesn’t want us teaching the Gospel to the world and making disciples, which is Jesus’ mandate.

        • Gordon on January 23, 2021 at 7:11 am

          Disciples? The church makes converts, not disciples. I don’t hate followers of Christ. I hate the organized church because of its malice and doctrine and added subtext to the gospel. Your personal attacks and calling me a servant of the devil (especially when accusing me of especially persecuting Christianity and conveniently forgetting how much worse the Jews have things) doesn’t help its case. My hate is against the church’s blasphemous inconsistency, doublethink, and the lies it says without words. I hate the Pseudo-Zeus Emperor-God it preaches, who is afraid of sin and ‘loves’ [a select few of] us only out of obligation to his Son and nothing else. The church’s gospel is functionally this: “You deserve to be tortured forever because you made a decision God doesn’t like. Join us, and you won’t.”
          Boil away all the reasonings, dressings, decoration and buzzwords, and right there you see the rotten core of our doctrine. Did Jesus teach this? If it were true, wouldn’t Jesus have said a little more about how you should avoid his father whose wrath he alone holds back?

    • Jennifer on January 24, 2021 at 11:49 am

      The entire premise is broken… “Faith IN Christ”? That’s nothing compared to the “Faith OF Christ”… which comes ONLY from within by Spirit.

    • Christopher Daniel Spurling on January 26, 2021 at 5:54 am

      Nailed it, couldn’t be more truthful about the situation. The church has been apostate for along time I woke up to it when I was 14, I am now 40 and it’s only became way worse. If we want to bring the body of Christ back to a building so bad then perhaps we need to throw out the false teachers first or bring them to the light and repentance then maybe we can congregate within the walls once again.

    • Pamela Nadzan on January 26, 2021 at 10:31 am

      You need to find a new church. Mine isn’t like that. It is like a family where we are all learning and growing in Christ.

    • Sherry on January 30, 2021 at 2:27 pm

      One of my favourite verses is 1 Peter 3:15 “…But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and (be) ready always to (give) an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear (respect)”.

      That’s one tall order when you can’t put on the armour of God without the fruit of the Spirit.
      The world has always been in a crazy state of survival of the fittest.
      My Mom was an atheist and my Dad was so, so angry at God that it terrified me. Nothing Luke warm there and I now don’t know where they are for certain. But I know God is Great and His love is unfathomable. So, I can’t judge but instead seek forgiveness in my foolish, sinful state to love with the fruit of the Spirit. I trust Christ Jesus to work out the rest.

      I think the church is pretty much in the same state; like children in a school yard.
      The church will always be mixed up in politics (I think) since it’s about the Kingdom of God and His Sovereignty.

    • Philip Clinton Thompson Jr on February 11, 2021 at 7:48 pm

      I don’t know what church you have been attending but I have attended several and grew up in the church and never have thought of God as a God of wrath and that I had to earn salvation. I have always felt that his grace was overflowing, maybe even to a fault I have never felt shame at least consciously. Perhaps it is based on how we are raised by our parents to instill unconditional love in us. I was fortunate in that with my earthly parents and I think that is why I see God that way perhaps…

    • Alfred on March 14, 2021 at 10:47 am

      You sound very judgmental

      • Gordon on March 18, 2021 at 1:41 pm

        I am not the judge, but the grand jury. The grand jury gives an indictment as a witness. Its judgement is only a recommendation, but the conviction is for the petit jury, and the sentence is for the judge. The Spirit is the petit Jury, who alone may convict, and the judge is the Truth, who is Christ.

  11. Rod DeFigh on January 9, 2021 at 3:01 pm

    What is a thing that we create to improve a life that needs more than external glamour when the calamine runs dry. It will be the nurturing of entanglements that shun our enlightened pathways which in turn keep us longing for the better way of existing.
    I find an explicit soliloquy put forth in a casual way to be a mechanism intended for exposure of true thought but only if parlayed with confidential underpinnings. Practitioners of generous assurances can offer advice essential to the advancement of our stature among the constituency provided we are able to avoid flagrant disregard.
    All contagions portend our depleted willingness for building a simpler horizon of peaceful extensions of goodness that reach the corners of our minds.

    • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 5:15 am

      Rod, you’re very intense…have a beer..lighten up! 😂😆

  12. Bob on December 30, 2020 at 11:19 am

    Most of the “pro-church” comments here are irrelevant: they do not address the fact that much (to a substantial degree, all) of what the institutional church does is time-wasting crap: the modern church is essentially a device to reassure the conventional, middle-class, nuclear family that it is doing the “right thing.”

    • Mark on January 10, 2021 at 2:15 pm

      I agree with you, 90% of the money that is given to church goes to Salaries and a mortgage, I can see no parallel to that in the church that we find in the acts of the apostles. I personally am getting disillusioned with paying a huge mortgage whilst people are sleeping on the streets. I would rather stop attending church and buy food for the homeless.

      • Ray on January 21, 2021 at 12:33 pm

        To Mark and all who are unhappy with the lack of Christian outreach from the church to the community:
        Become the catalyst for change, urging others into ministry in ways that work for your church. The church is the congregation and the love must start there. You may find something that speaks to your heart and you begin speaking to your Sunday School or Bible Study class, or a simple announcement for anyone interested to meet after church over lunch. Maybe you aren’t able to actually assist in the ministry right away, but you can still be the one who helps to find the people who start new ministries. Our church has ladies who collect donations of fabric and sew sleeping bags, some collect toiletries for giving out to the homeless, others collect leftover/donated yarn to crochet scarves and hats, others collect money to feed breakfast to the nearby elementary school children, some work in the food ministry, others work to maintain abandoned cemeteries, some collect donations for a twice-yearly yard sale with proceeds going to an oversees mission group The list is endless if you look around your own community for needs that you can help to fill. You may not put an end or completely fill a need, but if you start something, another church group may join to help. Whatever you do to help others will be blessed and will multiply, and it will bring an unlimited sense of fulfillment to those in your congregation who are blessed to help. Nothing causes the spirit to fill the church any greater, in my mind, than coming together in His name for the benefit of others.

        • Mark on January 21, 2021 at 5:54 pm

          So here is the position I am in. There is a local Christian based food bank nearby, my wife volunteers there weekly, I have just retired and will be doing the same as soon as it is safe to do so. It is Christian based and the recipients of help relieve Christian council whenever they are there. That food bank reaches far more people than our church could ever hope to do, far more would be achieved by donating my tithe to the food bank than the UMC

          • Gordon on January 31, 2021 at 9:39 am

            You are allowed to make your checks out to specific ministries within the UMC (ask the congregation’s finance office to make certain.) My congregation before the pandemic has/had a messianic Jew who took great care to make sure his offerings didn’t go to any part of the UMC ran or entrusted by any antisemites. He wrote his checks to, I think some certain youth program.
            I’ll never fully appreciate the value he added to our Sunday School- he taught on the 3rd Sunday and helped us learn the lost memories of the earliest church, and the virtues, vices, and trials of Judaism and Jewry across the ages.
            You can do the same with avoiding giving cash to those promoting free divorce or homosexual wedding, racial conflict or vengeance, hostility towards migrants, oppressing citizens for migrants’ favors, or whatever most has your attention.



        • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 5:21 am

          Wow Ray! Your church sounds great! It probably isn’t in New York huh?

          • Ray on February 4, 2021 at 12:19 pm

            Sharon, ha,ha! No, I’m in the Bible Belt South in the heart of Georgia. But I will also have to admit that my wife and I had to search through more than fifteen churches looking for one where we saw the kind of love for others that we found at this church. And that is the definition of what is wrong in the church, when love is so hard to locate. But I learned from this church that all I really needed to do at my old church, instead of leaving, was to make a change in ministries. The sad part is that I never even considered all of the different things we could do to make a difference in our community and how it could transform the church where I was at. And that is the major point I want to make to everyone – we can be the catalyst for change and start the revolution we want to see in the church. I was blinded by what had become acceptable and normal in ‘my’ church and was simply unable to consider what could be done until we found this church in 2012. Since then I have found a new sense of what the church was meant to be.



  13. Andrew on December 27, 2020 at 7:24 am

    What a great article, I really enjoyed it – thank you. After all, how do we learn to forgive if we don’t have anyone we need to forgive? All the virtues Christ teaches us require continual practice – and weekly church is the perfect forum for that practice to take place – as we are all perfect test specimens to help develop one another’s love and patience! Another good article on a similar theme can be found here: https://www.gregtrimble.com/what-to-do-if-you-dont-want-to-sustain-a-church-leader/

  14. Pastrix Rachel Teresa on December 26, 2020 at 2:52 pm

    I started an online church blog dedicated to reaching Transgendered Women like me. Before you judge, Jesus and Him Crucified is the message. Holiness is taught and I explain full how some people become Transgender and what they can do and not do. So, yes, I do call homosexual/lesbian sex a sin, which it is. I’m very open about why I am trans (sex abuse at a young age and years and years of emotional abuse that followed). But, I also explain God will accept you as Trans, which is not a sin. The Holy Spirit writes the sermons lot me. Being Trans is not a sin, but gay/lesbian sex most certainly is a sin. At any rate, the Holy Spirit has made it successful worldwide. I’m amazed at how hungry some are for the real Christianity (Jesus as center, repentance and salvation, Holiness, Baptism of the Holy Spirit). I suspect a lot of people that aren’t trans read the blog.

    I’ve contacted a few ministers and none have ever written me back even though I told them my story and what I believe. When God called me to this ministry, the dream said I’d be pretty much alone in doing it. Satan has definitely attacked me a lot for doing it. Salvation is the main message.

    But, in the past, I suspect because I’m very feminine (even though I never told anyone I was trans in the churches I went to), I was rejected everywhere. Most women think I’m gay so they rejected me for years. I’m an Eunuch because of my sex abuse and have no interests in marriage to anyone. I’m married to Jesus anyway. I’m not into men, and not really into women. God showed me that. I wish I could find a church, but I’ve come to realize I’m never going to be accepted anywhere just like many in the Bible were never accepted. I’m not a compromising type. Sin is sin, regardless of whether or not that’s popular. Jesus is the center to my life, not some church denomination or belief. I saw that a lot in churches. I also don’t think churches should get in bed with politics either.

    But, the thing I notice about churches is this: why are the so judgemental if you don’t look and act like you? I’m poor so I know that’s why I was never invited in.

    Honestly: churches talk a big game of inclusion and really do no such thing. I called out the last church I went to on that in 2019. Boy, was the woman angry about that.

    Honestly, I think churches put marriage up as an idol A LOT!

    Honestly, I think churches make money too much of a big deal.

    So, what should we do? I’ll be blunt—I think we need to go back to the early church. A Jesus centered life of service to others. We meet in each other’s homes for church, or it’s a small church of 100 or less. I actually have wondered if these huge churches are all that Biblical. The biggest church in America, Joel Osteen’s, is nothing short of heresy and a weak, watered-down blessing ministry. At any rate, the center of all sermons should be Jesus NOT US! Too many churches preach me, me, me when they should be preaching Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. And, for God sakes, lose the pop psychology and the prosperity Gospel. It is not God’s job to be your shrink, or God’s job to be your sugar daddy. Yes, the Holy Spirit will fix you if you let Him. God loves to fix broken people.

    Also, notice how many churches don’t preach about a relationship with Jesus? I tell people–talk to God/Jesus/Holy Spirit just like you would a best friend. Tell Him everything about you. Hopes, dreams, successes, failures. If you’re mad at Jesus, let Him have it. If you are head over heels in love with Jesus, tell Him that, too. Jesus is your Husband, your best friend, your King. God desires a relationship where you tell him everything more than anything you can ever do. I’ve told Jesus/God, I love you, I’m ticked at you, yelled at Him, everything under the sun, and told Him all kinds of sweet nothings. We even argued. That’s what Jesus really wants from you. And, if you don’t give it to Him, one day, he might just say, “Depart from me, I never knew you.” Jesus wants to know you. That’s what God desires from you more than anything.

    I challenge you to visit my church and drop me a line.

    • Sharon on December 30, 2020 at 11:14 am

      We are all flawed broken hearted and cast aside by our world ! But not Jesus’s he has “Overcome the world “!John 16: 33 God loves us ! God is love ! 1John 4 :7-21 Jesus picks up every piece and puts me back together! Jesus’s restores me “Broken and Beautiful “ ! Unless I step out of the darkness into his glorious light ! Crying out to my Heavenly Father asking for forgiveness of my sins trusting in his precious promises! Forgiving those that have hurt me ! We need to demonstrate genuine love that means show my vulnerability be gentle , humble and empathetic to those that are hurting! The church looks to much at appearances . For the Lord sees not as man sees for man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart 1 Samuel 16 :17 If we are not real to each other loving one another then it becomes man made religious” IDOLATRY “instead of what God created the beauty of intimacy true fellowship ! Gods family ! My heart deeply goes out to those that have been hurt by the church! But we need to look beyond the pain and see Christ’s church through his loving eyes he paid the price through his sacrificial love so we can be free and love a broken fallen world that desperately needs his love !

    • Jay on January 5, 2021 at 2:21 pm

      Hello to the trans commentor, I am also trans (ftm) and agree with every word you say. It’s amazing how God works, i was googling how to deal with feelings about leaving a Church who pressure me to fellowship every day.
      I wish I had time and energy to take this ‘daily bread’ because I learn a lot in Bible studies. however I have a business to run and people to serve, God blessed me with specific talents that I would be sinning if I did not use the skills.
      I feel so much shame for not attending their fellowship more than 2 times a week. And they don’t even know I am trans.
      I would love to get in contact and visit your online blog.
      What are the details?
      With love, In Christ
      Jay

    • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 5:42 am

      hi Rachel, thank you for the wonderful insightful letter. You are soo honest and you are speaking truth from your ❤️. You r right, homosexuality is not a sin UNTIL a person acts on it. Which is clearly stated in the first chapter of the book of Romans Chapter 1. I’m sorry want you went through in the various churches you tried to join. I’ve been telling people for years that many homosexuals became that way because of abuse as children and teens. Thank you for telling your story . I have many homosexuals in my family and they were ALL sexual abused as children. May God bless you!

      • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 5:49 am

        And also God/Jesus does want a relationship with us. And just like any relationship it must grow. Some people give up to early. My relationship is still growing everyday and i continue to make mistakes, but He never gives up on me. I could right a book on it, but I like to tell people instead, but who knows? Maybe one day I will..

      • Pastrix Rachel Teresa on January 31, 2021 at 12:37 pm

        Sharon,

        Thank you so much! Yeah, everyone is allowed to have fantasies. We are human. I’ve written lots of erotic novels and nothing wrong with that either—it is fantasy. Like you said, it is the actually doing it that is a sin. Yep, sex abuse of kids affects about 20-25% of the population in America and that results in most of the LGBT (the Q and + I find ridiculous–you are either gay, lesbian or straight. The Bi thing is a farce). That terrible sin changes people. But, Jesus can restore. That’s something between the individual and God—no, I think reparative therapy is wrong since it forces. God doesn’t force. Jesus said he came to heal the broken hearted not condemn them. The church needs to take people as they are because God does. It’s the Holy Spirit’s job to clean the fish after He catches them not us. He knows what He’s doing not us.

        As for me, I’m 52 and been a female inside a man’s body since I was raped at 3 1/2 years old. Could God restore me? Sure, but sometimes the cure is worse than the disease, as they say. I also have no interest in being male inside to match my male body. I’m not into dudes so don’t even have gay thoughts. Honestly, unlike men who like men and women who like women, I think Trans is rare. Gay/Lesbian is pretty rare already at 2% of the population. But, true Trans is even more rare. I’ve met some that even have transitioned and they really aren’t Trans. Therapists really aren’t doing such people any favors just agreeing with them without really looking at how they feel, how they act, and what they like. It’s inside not outside that matters. God looks at the heart not the body.

        Much love,
        Rachel

        • Bobby Sue on February 4, 2021 at 2:37 pm

          I’m sorry for the sexual abuse that you endured as a child. I can relate. However, I have to ask, if you believe that homosexuality is a sin and that Jesus can heal and restore all things, why not allow Him to heal and restore ALL of you?

          I still believe that God created two genders and that He never intended for us to try to play God and change that. However, I know that God is a loving and just God…and is a healer. Ask Him.

          • Pastrix Rachel Teresa on February 9, 2021 at 7:30 am

            No, I don’t believe that. Homosexual sex is a sin. Being LGBT isn’t. I’m not Gay. I have no interest in men, period. I really don’t have much interest in women. Honestly, why would God “cure” me? That would ruin my testimony to other Trans peeps. No offense, whatsoever, but what would He restore me to exactly? Being male? I’ve been this way since 3.5 years old, which is 49 years. Pretty much means I’ve always been this way. I have zero interest in suddenly liking working on cars, being a sports nut or into building things. God called me “Rachel” and has given me dreams as Rachel, and we are going to ride this train into eternity. There really is no turning back. 99% of the church had no use for me before and I don’t expect that to change. I’m into winning souls not bake sales, wearing fancy clothes and playing a role. The Bible says, “the kingdom of Heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force.” (Matt 11:12). If I was male, would the fire burn? Probably not. I was made for a time like this. I want that crown of soul winning to lay at my Husband Jesus’s feet. And, I’m going to get it. And, take a lot of people to heaven with me. Kicking, screaming, being offended, I don’t care. Who was at the Cross? The women. I’m glad Jesus called me Rachel. I consider it an honor and there ain’t no turning back now.



    • Gordon on January 31, 2021 at 10:18 am

      “why are the so judgemental if you don’t look and act like you? I’m poor so I know that’s why I was never invited in.”
      Remember, when in Rome… if you wear shiny noserings and dye your hair blue while in the midst of a congregation of plaindress anabaptists whose every article of clothing is made from reclaimed bluejeans, you’re gonna look like you’re there for the attention. In some countries when first visited by missionaries, women going topless was normal, while holding hands in public was disgustingly indecent.
      Regarding the pop-psych church vs a God of healing, here’s some advice that I actually follow: brutal and nigh-blasphemous honesty with God is more than acceptable in His sight. Remember Job. The prosecution in heaven’s court will demand we be tested. We can’t scandalize or shock God or make Him clutch his pearls when we outright admit the thoughts we already harbor in our hearts. I often pray thus:
      “Holy Spirit, I don’t trust you. I really don’t. And I still like my sin, and I don’t trust you’ll replace it with something better. I think it’s your fault, God. You did this and it’s all your fault! Am I wrong? Yes! It’s a lie, but I still believe it. And I refuse to believe otherwise in my stone heart. Your world is a mess, free will is a curse, and your church is a failure. You want to wrestle? I don’t care if you dislocate my hip; I don’t care if you have to tear my leg off to make me humble in the end: I’m not letting go until you bless me!
      “Am I being arrogant, God? Yes! I’m being arrogant! Filthily arrogant! I’m irreverent and disrespectful to the universal sovereign, and I want to rule you! You know this more than I do. I can’t lie. Behold my repulsive attitude! Look at my heart and see the necrosis and ignorance!
      “And if I can be humbled without it being too painful, then I beg you in my arrogance you do so. Soften my heart for cheerful obedience. Let me serve you the way I want to, by making serving you how you want me to- become what I want to do. I can’t do that kind of transformation, and you know it. You’ll have to do it for me. I can’t do **** unless you bless it. I can’t or won’t repent. Have mercy on me, your blind creature of the earth. Nothing else can change me. You are my only hope, and I despise you deeply in spite of your love for me.”

    • Joella on February 7, 2021 at 1:30 pm

      Part of why the church can seem so condemning is exactly what you are voicing in your own condemnation of homosexual marriage. When being able to physically change gender was not available (ans still is not to most people in the world!), trans would appear to be homosexual to anyone else. Statistics actually show that there is way less domestic abuse and divorce, with the harm to the children that goes with all that, in same sex parental families. Would this loving God of yours condemn these people for living a truly loving family?

      • Gordon on February 9, 2021 at 11:28 am

        Haven’t you read Romans 1? Giving in to unnatural lust is an abuse of the body. The familial relationship you describe is not sin; the lust and the aberrant sexual relation is. It’s what monastic life is for. It isn’t as enormous as hatred or pride, but we will still answer for it. It is not to be romanticized. It still isn’t a good thing.

        • Joella on February 9, 2021 at 7:23 pm

          Giving in to lust, whether natural or not, is certainly not what I am talking about. Paul is not always saying the same things through his letters, so to take what was “natural” in his day would allow women to still be cast into penury because they were not obeying their husbands. My point is that love is love. Defining it by gender or by whose authority is today defining “natural” or not allows for condemnation and blocks the flow of the love that Jesus was trying to show us.

          • Gordon on February 9, 2021 at 7:40 pm

            Gender is defined by chromosomes. We know that the presence of a Y is always going to be make without exception. We can better define it than they in Paul’s day could, just like we can better understand infection than Moses’ expression in Leviticus. Normalizing abuse of women as natural doesn’t normalize homosexual act as natural, nor polygamy that rises from the culture that abuses women. Neither is normal, nor should be. And they aren’t condemned. They are convicted, prayed over, and abandoned. They are diagnosed. Condemnation is for those who keep on sinning, promote it, or cause schisms in the community. Those who do that are to be shunned.
            You can’t remove sin by redefining what a sin is and isn’t. I could use the same exact arguments you use about barriers to love to promote incest, but nobody’s going to legitimize that or call it normal any time soon, nor pornography. I can’t call me and by hentai waifu ‘marriage’ any more than my aberrant sexual relationship a marriage. It’s a sinful act.



  15. Jim Toole on December 26, 2020 at 1:36 pm

    No one truly living in the spirit can agree with the humanistic contrived corporate religious church concept. All that has ever resulted from this is straying from “God’s purposed Way” and the fragmentation of the Church [Body of Christ] into a myriad of religions, denominations, sects, on and on. God never intended for Jesus to be on home confinement! God never intended for us to scholastically/academically teach Christ. We are called to reflect Christ into the society. Our primary guide is the Holy Spirit not some human titled corporate executive.

  16. B Toups on December 16, 2020 at 7:19 pm

    The problem with the church is the social pressures placed upon attendees. No, I don’t want to spend 3/4 of the time singing hymns. No, I don’t agree with the nonsensical Biblical interpretation given by the unqualified charlatan standing at the pulpit. No, I don’t want to go protest against women’s right to choose. No, I don’t want to discriminate against the LGBTQ community. No, I would never consider enrolling your non-insurance Christian health plan. No, I don’t agree that the church needs to build a new building.

  17. Disciple of Christ (He knows my name) on November 24, 2020 at 5:20 am

    I’m tempted not to comment but…
    Look up the word ‘Ekklesia’. this is Greek for ‘the called out ones’. That’s church, not a building, not a pastor, not a programme, not a kids club, not financially driven and so on. There is so much false and lukewarm teaching in so called church, Jesus hates it. Scripture is clear, he will spit you out or he will throw the dried up branches into the fire. Come on people wake up! Our great commission is to ‘go out’ into the world and share the good news, not ‘stay in’ and pat each other on the back. Jesus was radical, he challenged the hypocrites of that time both in the synagogues and in public. Do you see that in churches? they just lie down and confirm to the ways of the world with gay vicars, no true repentance, have no idea about casting out demons, don’t know what they are doing where baptism of the holy spirit is concerned or true repentance that leads to Godly sorry and then water baptism. There is so much wrong with the organised church. I speak form experience of it always failing me and never properly teaching me how to be a true disciple because they literally don’t know how and don’t want to know.
    Praise our saviour Jesus Christ who finally pulled me out of it and showed me the truth!
    The church has a massive spirit of bindless and mammon over it. I’ve seen it full blown many, many times. Lead pastors who have a porn addiction and no one challenges it or tries to cast out that demon, pastors who are quite happy baptising people who are sleeping with their partner, countless people who are infected with the kundalini spirit that masquerades as the holy spirit. Shall I go on?
    The caveat is, because of His marvellous grace, there are some true believers in these church’s (not many) but they are stuck and tied down by the system. There is an old saying “You can’t see the wood for the trees”.
    If that’s you and you are stuck under the pyramidal church system, I pray you walk out now and seek the watchmen and disciples in your area. We individually have to answer to our Lord on the day of judgment. You can’t blame the pastor of your church or anyone else if you ignore scripture and accept a watered down gospel.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 24, 2020 at 10:58 am

      :^D

      Praise God for saving all whom He knew from before the world began.

      Don’t worry. Keep looking at Him, moved by His grace and letting Him find you.

      It ain’t over yet!

      Pray for your enemy, that they would become Christians. Pray even more for your siblings in Christ, that they would seek His face, be moved by His grace and let Him find them more and more!

      What’s the dividing line between Church and World? 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 and Romans 10:9, 10, 13. Only, exactly that.

    • Lana Smiley on November 27, 2020 at 9:10 pm

      Oh, bless my soul, thank you for your eloquent truths
      Don’t think anyone could have said it better! Thank you.

    • VAL on December 1, 2020 at 3:02 pm

      This is so profound. Thank you. I would like to suggest that people watch the last reformation. Old movie but loaded with truths. The current church has strayed much from the pattern of the early church. Church is in the streets, marketplace and not confined to four walls. the only time we should gather like that is to eat our grain and then go out and distribute

    • DARRIBELLE DIEHL on December 13, 2020 at 7:14 am

      There is a congregation that is continually growing in population. There is a congregation that is sharing good news to thd world in over 1,000 languages. Clearly that congregation has the right motivation that will not be spit out or burned in fire when this evil world has it’s comeuppance.
      Ask google what website has the most translated information.

    • Set free on December 15, 2020 at 3:59 am

      Absolutely love this comment I feel exactly the same way, preaching became motivational sermons and not Godly sermons there are no fear of God in them and that upsets me so much. Just want to thank you for the comment because a lot of believers feel the same way.

  18. Anonymous on November 11, 2020 at 4:41 am

    God and Jesus both suck.

    • 1 John 1:9 on November 14, 2020 at 3:38 pm

      Another validating example of God’s grace and mercy.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 14, 2020 at 4:05 pm

        “Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”

        Romans 9:19-24

        • Kester on November 19, 2020 at 10:18 am

          why use an antique translation which is almost as hard to read as the original ancient Greek?! I’m going to look it up in the NRSV or New Jerusalem translations, but I can’t stand all that theeing and thouing and hast and wilt and pompous archaic language.

          • Jeremy Bickel on November 19, 2020 at 12:50 pm

            It’s a better translation, because it’s from better manuscripts. I also like the way it sounds. Does this satisfy your sarcastic hatred? If not, then at least walk away with the knowledge that that your questions are not really connected to your feelings about this.

            As to the point of the verses in this context, we are all evil, and God is gracious to those who suck and the hatefully sarcastic and He is even merciful to me. God is merciful, even to His enemies and to those whom He has converted from being His enemies by His greatly strong mercy. However you seek it, find this truth about He Who is Truth, and His capability covers even deep evil in those who verbally confess His name in belief of the tenets of Christ’s gospel in sincerity (Romans 10:9, 10, 13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-8).



    • The Scarlet Pimpernel on November 16, 2020 at 2:54 pm

      So, you admit they exist. That’s a good place to begin. However, your statement isn’t an argument.

  19. Gary on October 25, 2020 at 12:12 pm

    I would admit there are things in your letter that are true but the church organization as a whole seems to be broken. and i am not sure what the fix is I obviously haven’t prayed every morning with other believers like you suggested. I have supported the organizational church for yrs through the tithe and offerings and like clockwork every service during the announcements they hype how they want you to tithe because its good for you not the organization I personally have gotten so tired of hearing it even as a giver, I am beginning to think this is some sort of hypocrisy, the organization ask the Church (the people) to trust god with there finances, when they stand up front and beg manipulate and intimidate the church into giving money. If a church organization can’t survive financially by preaching the gospel, teaching on righteousness and walking after the spirit not after the flesh with an occasional message on tithing and giving and then trusting god to work in the people to give joyfully, then I believe just maybe that church organization shouldn’t survive.

    • Carl Bowles on November 15, 2020 at 6:43 am

      Yes definitely we need to come together as believers as we all come from different backgrounds all working together. Towards one common goal loving GOD worship while releasing more of are sin filled self’s selves to the new Christ center self.
      But we do not get to pick our family where we are born
      A good portion of our life’s we don’t have control of…
      GOD does certainly steer us whether Christian or no Christian throughout our life to relationship with him.
      I find that church’s don’t recognize the central theme GOD WANTS RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU /ME
      if that is the theme do we pray for the sick to be healed or pray they get a relationship or better relationship during this time. Do we ask GOD for whatever or ask that we get a better relationship? In all our experiences
      I have tried to figure out my past experiences myself and with other pastor’s only to be asked to leave there church.
      Like your church bye ?!?! The current pastor saids
      Interesting

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 15, 2020 at 7:14 am

        Our relationship with God is built from knowing and doing the truth that is found in the Bible. The Bible is very straightforward about what God wants. For us, there are specific statements of right behavior given – pray without ceasing, take every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, confess our faults to each other and convince, exhort, and rebuke each other with longsuffering and teaching. If you do what you know God has said, then that’s all you can do – continue to try. Encourage the saints you know to stand up in love. Read the Bible with each other and talk about it, remembering that no Scripture is of any private interpretation. Don’t all give your opinions of what it means – it means definite things; verse-by-verse Bible teaching, with background and explanations, is an excellent activity. Tom Nelson of Denton Bible Church is one such Bible teacher (dbcmedia.org). Go through the Bible together with one or two other Christians on a regular basis. Be open with each other and pray for the needs of each other (and not only for the physical and soulish needs, but for spiritual things, like believing truth and rejecting lies and standing up in ourselves for what we know is right and against what we know is wrong, and for God to show us Himself, His love, His will for our lives, which we learn by reading the Bible).

        If you do these things, ask God to make you find pastors who do them in churches close to you that you can go to.

      • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 6:11 am

        Carl, there is Andrew wommack church..google it on line church organization. You can read the different people and their stories and also Andrew’s. They teach relationship with Jesus. God bless

    • lawrence law on November 18, 2020 at 4:39 am

      Well said!

      • Brenda SnipesBrenda snipes on December 27, 2020 at 1:09 am

        Lord said in the day u seek me with a l l ur heart u will find me my sheep know my voice another they will not follow he will say in that day but when did we see u hungry an feed u naked an clothe u etc. When u did it to the least of one of these u did it to me enter in he never said what church they belonged to they didn’t even know him in the person they were helping he tries our heart not our church people need to be careful what they do an to who he said to the least of these yet they never knew who he was it’s sort of like the old saying he knows when u been good or bad esp. to humans he said love me keepy command to love sure people make mistakes we all do but remember book of acts the church three thousand in one day why everybody did not say my four an no more greatest revival why God was well pleased they laid what they had at apotles feet if u had a washer I had one u had a horse I had one good was well pleased with the unselfish people

  20. Kevin on October 20, 2020 at 9:11 pm

    Came to this site by clicking the wrong link. (you can call it an “act of dog”).. started reading—. In under a minute I was googling the authors name to check my suspicion… and sure enough I was right! The author is a pastor!! The whole thing actually *was* just as self-serving as it sounded. If you actually read your dang book you might notice that all the apostles had *real* jobs and were not just parasites living off the body of the congregation. As a outsider looking in, to me it seems painfully obvious that you are just a con-man begging for his victims to come back to be fleeced some more. But oh, you said it so prettily- as if you were the unholy offspring of a lawyer and a used-car salesman.

    • Stephen on January 2, 2021 at 12:15 pm

      The author actually brags about leaving a high paying life of being a lawyer to become a guru. True story You also get a fair amount of ex salesmen and magicians taking up the church business. Tax free income and volunteers for employees all under the guise of righteousness, it’s the ultimate scam.

  21. Bob on October 2, 2020 at 11:36 am

    It is a little amusing that the strongest defenders of the institutional church are operatives of that institution: in other words, they are defending their own livelihood. Tell me seriously, if you read the four Gospels alone (and they most directly preserve the thoughts and words of Jesus Christ), do you see anything that remotely resembles today’s institutional church?

    • Jeremy Bickel on October 2, 2020 at 1:42 pm

      There’s no reason to limit yourself to the 4 gospels. Those were to Jews under the Law, except the very ends of them (after the Resurrection). 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus have a lot of the rules that *Paul* happened to give to his people on how to organize church. Organization and structure are good when they are used in goodness. Discipline is also good, and without being subject to each other (Ephesians 5:21; Philippians 2:3-4), we don’t get the kind of growth that is inherent in Christ’s Church. He’s the head of it, and there’s no fear when we look to Him, because we have the biblical mandates necessary to call any Christian to account (tell them, tell them with another witness or two, tell them in front of the whole assembly and then shun them, but not as enemies, wanting them to stop their unrepentant sin, even by means of giving their bodies over to Satan). Even though the 21st century denominational churches might differ from New Testament churches, the structures given in the Bible for the Church are very useful for us (Western society is strikingly similar in several ways to the one Paul was a part of), but the qualities of the people that are given are mandatory.

      • lawrence law on November 18, 2020 at 4:53 am

        The relevance of the early Church – source of protection (sanctuary) , shelter, education, source of Scripture are not applicable to today’s context. Even in the areas of marriages and bereavement, there are other legitimate alternatives. I handled my Mum’s funeral myself and presided over her eulogy. No church involvement.

        Due to the lack of meaningful context that connects the believer to the church, the Relationship is superficial or hardly worth mentioning. This observation is not directed at either church or believer to find fault with either. Recognizing this reality is needful, else the institutional church cannot make it.

    • Susan Jull on October 16, 2020 at 4:10 pm

      The church in our times is DEAD IN THEIR SINS AND TRESPASSES. Like any other body that is DEAD–you can kick it, talk to it, try to reform it–but nothing happens–Ears can’t hear nor eyes see the error of their way. How many times have I heard a pastor say, “Sin is no longer an issue in the church.” Roll over and play dead–Do Nothing Church, not interested in cleansing their consciences. I’ve heard it say, “WHAT’S THE HARM–we all know Santa Claus is ‘make believe’ (a LIE). So what!” Scoffers and Mockers–can’t awaken a DEAD BODY. From the least to the greatest–turning a blind eye to SIN has caused DEATH AND DECAY OF THE BODY. Dressing a PIG up on Sunday morning to feel ‘righteous’–it’s still an unwashed, unclean BODY OF CHRIST. Maybe their clothes are Tide cleaned, but their consciences are DEFILED. Good for NOTHING salt. A decayed BODY is all you have in ‘religion’. SIN has blinded them–but none take it to heart. The wise man is called an ole fool–not for today! And he who rebukes brings no pleasure to the Youth. Woe! Woe! Woe! But the people rise daily in prayer, seeking God for ‘goodness’ and ‘mercies,’ yet they have not inclined their ears to His call for Repentance, and neither will He incline His ears to their prayers. God is longsuffering, but He is a HOLY GOD, and cannot fellowship with DARKNESS. RELIGION is covering up the fact that the people are living in SIN, and far-removed from the Light of God’s Word.

      • Barbara Garrison on October 21, 2020 at 10:25 pm

        10/21/2020

        Has the news media said using the name of God is offensive to people? I ask out of curiosity.

      • Gary on October 25, 2020 at 2:18 pm

        You may very well be right

      • lawrence law on November 18, 2020 at 5:15 am

        Carnality is spiritualized into normality. The institutional Church, in particular the wealth and health-promoting pulpits, is not only not spared but perpetuating this spiritualized carnality. In my books, when placing burdens of legalism is also courting carnality for the strength of sin is the LAW.

    • lawrence law on November 18, 2020 at 4:41 am

      Good observation on the final sentence.

  22. Frank B. on September 24, 2020 at 1:04 am

    “The church is far from perfect. Life is complex.”— Please forgive my language… But that sentiment is…TOTAL BULL SHIT!.. If your religion is not “perfect” then one should NOT follow it.. You people have done more to destroy mankind than to preserve it.. If you don’t know the “answers”— THEN GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY….. AND STOP DECEIVING PEOPLE!

    • Abraham on September 24, 2020 at 3:09 am

      Hello Mr Frank B.
      I’m Abraham, I was answering questions awhile back, but I haven’t been here in a long while.
      To your comment.
      I’ll assume the statement made “the church isn’t perfect” refers to people, thus my submission will make sense.

      Christianity is perfect!! Absolutely.
      And the Bible holds answers to questions anyone can have about God. It is God’s own word after all.
      These are really bold claims and I can surely explain them and make you see reasons with me, with time.

      So once again, Christianity is perfect and I’ll throw in a little twist and say, the church is perfect! That has to be explained. The church as the body of Christ, redeemed by his work, and identified with him, is perfect, however, when you come to the gathering, the assembly, the local church, you might have certain “contradictions”.

      1. The more obvious ones are the “tares amongst the wheat”, people who aren’t saved, but come amongst our gathering.
      They are deceivers, and when such do certain things, people’s response will be “and he goes to church a lot, everyone is lying, the church isn’t perfect, Christians are deceivers” e.t.c.
      1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
      Antichrist refers here to false doctrine and false believers. They might be people who were once belonging, or still belonging to the gathering, but they don’t believe the gospel, they aren’t Christians, yet claim Christianity.
      Obviously these folks will make Christianity altogether look false.

      2. Is more along the lines of no. 1 in the sense that it references people also.
      You see, people are the issue, and in this case you might even have believers, who act like unbelievers.
      The church in Corinth, whom Paul wrote to is a very typical example.
      1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

      These folks are saved, yet Paul couldn’t relate (speak) with them as saved (spiritual). But carnal. How were they carnal? In their behavior. So you can have people who are saved, but still act carnally.
      What’s the issue? Paul lends us an idea, in the sense that he says they are “babes in Christ”, implying infancy in Christ.
      That means they didn’t mature. So there is MATURITY aka spiritual growth required. And when believers don’t grow up, they act like unbelievers.
      Does that again mean that Christianity is not perfect? No it doesn’t. However the followers might appear imperfect, if they aren’t growing. The solution to that is already provided by God. It’s the teaching of the word (the Bible)
      2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
      (Doctrine means teaching, reproof means to give evidence, instruction in righteousness refers to spiritual growth, Man of God refers to believers, Christians)

      Jesus taught about the different possible reactions to the word that can be observed by men like you and I
      In the parable of the sower, (you can read the whole thing later)

      Matthew 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty

      The soils all refers to the heart of men when the word is preached to them.
      Hearts 1 & 2 didn’t allow the word have root in them, so they weren’t saved
      Heart 3. Was saved, but allowed other things to choke the word in his heart, so he couldn’t bear the fruits of the word.
      Heart 4, bore fruits, (fruit refers to the visible product of a thing) fruits of the word in his heart.

      So, Christianity is perfect, but if you have people who aren’t Christians pose as Christians, definitely they will defame Christianity.
      And Christianity has it’s fruits, that should be visible to all men, born again or not, but when such don’t grow, they’ll also give Christianity a bad name.

      Dear Mr Frank. Christ’s work is perfect, he died and rose again, and anyone that believes in him is made perfect, and as we grow up by being taught the word, that perfection will be shown in our actions and relationship with men

      Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but NOW ARE ye light in the Lord: WALK as children of light:

      Hope this helps? I’ll be sure to answer your questions as much as I can

      • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 6:17 am

        Thank you 🙏🏼

    • Jeremy Bickel on September 24, 2020 at 7:13 am

      Master Jesus Christ is perfect. He preserves His own. If you believe His death is for our sins in accordance with the prophecies and the descriptions in the Bible, and then He was buried, then God raised Him from the dead in accordance with the Scriptures, and then He was seen by many witnesses afterward (those who belonged to Him, both individually and even more than 500 brothers at once, most of whom were still alive when Paul wrote to the Corinthian church this formulation of the gospel that he had also been taught), and if you confess with your mouth Master Jesus due to these particular beliefs, then you will be saved. This is the beginning. The local congregation is not the same set of people as The Church. Run to Master Jesus Christ, believing and doing this gospel (Romans 10:9-10 and 1 Corinthians 15:1-8), and you will then gain righteousness by believing the Resurrection, because the same Spirit of Life leads those who are known by Christ into righteousness as we live by His Law (not the written ordinances of Moses or the 10 Commandments; Romans 8:2).

  23. Humphrey on August 6, 2020 at 7:28 am

    The church is the body of Christ which mean it is the organization of Jesus Christ on earth. Do you know that there is no any organization in this world that claims Jesus Christ as its head? But the Church does. Why on earth can someone keep finding excuse upon excuse to discredit the church and its organized activities? Jesus made it clear that he will come back for his church. Therefore, if you are not part of the Church, the return of Jesus is not for you. I don’t care what you think, organizations are conducted in buildings and structures that is why there are church buildings everywhere. A song said We are the World, and there is a United Nation Building for people of the world to organize their activities. We say: We are the Church, so there are Church buildings for us to organize our activities. Make no mistake about that, there is no problem with Christians, Church buildings, King James Bible (In fact, I taught my Children that KJV bible is the only word of God with us today). if you are done with Church, The Church will still march on.

  24. Daniel on June 16, 2020 at 11:29 am

    Perhaps the word ‘church’ should be removed from English translations and your own mind because it is actually an incorrect translation for the Greek word ekklesia, which should be, as William Tyndale rightly did, translated as “assembly, congregation, gathering”. That refers to the people, a called out and separate community. The word ‘church’ actually does refer to a physical building/house/structure. And for you to say the ‘church’ is ‘the people’ is actually incorrect, proving you are in error, ignorant of history and the biblical idea of community. You can look this up. The Greek word for ‘church’ or closest to it, is kuriakos or kuriakon which is only used twice in the entire New Testament, once by Paul, once by John. We were given the word church, which is a translation of German/Latin ‘kirche’ from the Greek ‘kuriakos’ by King James Bible fame…and it was done on purpose because by that time there was an established business model of ‘church.’ They chose to protect it. Even the Reformers missed this. It has ruined the idea of community and gathering and mutual participation within a spiritual gathering. If you agree that the Bible is somehow the ‘inspired’ ‘Word’ of God profitable for faith, practice, doctrine, and the like you will have to defend your use of the word ‘church’ because it is an incorrect translation, and therefore, all that you think of as ‘church’ that you are eisegting back into the premise of the New Testament style of gathering stands upon shaky ground…the ground of tradition but not truth. The reason earnest seekers of truth and the Yeshua the New Testament presents are leaving ‘church’ is because they are starting to be drawn by God out of them to seek out ekklesia…for they are institutional, dominated by structure and hierarchy, and most believers are actually kept immature by their inability to exercise their spiritual gifts within them. Sitting in a pew or ‘Sunday School’ class or ‘small group’ class an hour or two a week after singing a few songs is not going to spiritually prepare people for the dark days ahead in their own personal lives or corporately within a nation in its cultural death throes. All the sermon series in the world, all the programs, all the 501c3 merger with the government to keep all that $$$ for yourself due to tax exemptions, isn’t going to help people stay sane when God deals with the USA as God has dealt with other countries/nations in the past. Your ‘churches’ collect wealth, but not for helping the poor and needy and sick and fatherless and widows, but so that you can buy influence to have a seat in the halls of power and spiritual ‘entertainment’ thereby proving that the Protestant Reformation was always doomed to be as ecumenical and inclusive as the Roman Catholic whore. People are leaving because God is actually saving them. Yeshua is drawing men and women to himself, to his community, to his ekklesia. “Upon this rock I will build by CONGREGATION/COMMUNITY…” not ‘church’. The rock of the revelation that struck Cephas/Peter like a thunderbolt epiphany that day, “Attou hou haMashiach, ben-Elohim chayim”, or “you are the Christ, the son of the Living God.”

    • Child of God on July 24, 2020 at 5:57 pm

      I believe it is clear that church means the people. There is no confusion when there is nearly 100 verses in the bible that commands us to gather together to encourage one another in our faith also so we are accountable to someone that knows the word and can direct us so we do not come up with our own understanding of the word and say or behave in an ungodly way. This is also so that we can invite others to our gatherings in hopes they get saved and this gives them an opportunity to see the example of being separated from the world. We can have bible studies Sunday school and we can pray and worship together too. All commands from Jeaus.
      Also back then people would gather together outside because there was so many and later built buildings and called it a church because that is where the church comes together. The Bible has not been changed it was translated so we can understand the message. Amen. God bless.

    • Mark on August 16, 2020 at 5:15 pm

      You are, “right on the money. ” Any nonprofit organization ultimately is a government regulated/controlled business. God it’s very specific about what he requires from us. Render unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar. Nothing man-made is good enough for God and God does not accept anything that is not already required. That alone makes tithe offered or accepted as anything monetary blaspheme. In my 35 years of being able to read I have never found scripture where Jesus conducted any sort of business transaction with money. consistently, every instance where money is involved she gives it to someone and tells them to go pay on their debts.
      If you love me keep my Commandments. As God-fearing Christians we were instructed to abide by the laws of man unless those laws interfered with abiding by God’s laws. Thou shalt not make unto thee any Graven image or any likeness of anything in the heavens above, the Earth beneath or the waters under the earth. Thou Shalt not bow down before them nor serve them. For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God… Love does not covet, nor is love selfish (except in vain) but it is very jealous. You can only worship 1 God. Anyone proclaiming themselves as Christian should be furious about being tricked by those they’ve looked to as examples for following the righteous path.
      Money, long before it gets produced by an engraved plate or die stamp is already under the ownership of someone. No matter how much you save up or earn it does not belong to you it’s not your money. If your survival is dependant on the use of another’s property you’re, um, whats that term modern society has become without complaint because they keep telling us it was abolished after the Civil War…
      As a Christian I refuse to be lukewarm.
      Father, You know i am testable and I thank You for the gift of a capability to share this understanding with your children because they truly seek You.

    • lawrence law on November 18, 2020 at 5:22 am

      People are leaving (the institutional Church) because God is actually saving them – I love this bold statement! Copied your comment for my records, golden nuggets of good and relevant observations.

  25. Thomas Borboa on June 5, 2020 at 8:06 am

    About the reasons people are leaving the “church.” In short, it’s not because of “post-modern” thinking. It is because many are becoming aware that what is considered the church is just not in the bible. No where in the new testament do we see what’s represented in reality and people are not interested in this business called church, PERIOD!

    • Robert Olson on June 9, 2020 at 1:11 pm

      In the beginning was the Word and the Word with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him were all things made without Him nothing was made…. So why does my church deny this? Instead my church wants to contemplate on the latest research from Barna that explains and excuses our dwindling numbers! My church wants to explain the excellency and supremacy of our “theology” and bash other christian churches theology! I have been trained in the Seminary and have a Deaconical degree. I sit in stunned silence as the churches run from the word….led by the pastors (CEOs) and “elders” many of whom I have counseled for sexual immorality, alcohol and drug use and anger issues that has spilled into the congregation. I can see why the church has become repulsive to the Christian and of no use to the seeker. I would like to experiment with the rebirth of the Church in Antioch. Word, Fellowship, Community, Service.

      • Jeremy Bickel on June 9, 2020 at 1:50 pm

        “Master Jesus, make us go to You! Cause us to trust You in simplicity and honor You with all our strength as we admonish and build up the siblings. Change our minds to stop looking at the World’s wisdom. Find us yearning toward You when You return, and make us trust You, God, even if You kill us! Hold us in the palm of Your faithful hand, and make us struggle sincerely as we rest in the peacefulness You instill, Greatest God. Keep us loving You. Amen.”

      • Rev J on July 5, 2020 at 8:05 pm

        Hi All,
        Plain and simple facts. The Christian/Catholic church of today has become a place run by a deep state bunch bent on changing the original scriptures to serve Satan and not God. Does anyone out there really believe that God or Jesus would allow us to stain His virgin bride, the church. Just as God took away the Jews right to Him so I now believe He has done to s as well. This corrupt clerical culture that now exists and runs our church is not looking to be the “good shepherds” but are the serpents in the garden to bring down the church and as many of the followers as it can persuade to follow this new wishy washy faith. Father Gobbi locution, that he received from Mother Mary, is coming true as we speak. This corrupt Christian/Catholic church will fall and only a remnant Christian/Catholic church will remain but it will be filled with true believers not the C.I.,N.O.s of today. What is a C.I.N.O. you ask? A Christian/Catholic In Name Only. Our Christian/Catholic churches are filled with them today. The pope who now sits on the papal throne is a deep state faker, Too bad for us. Archbishop Sheen stated “Who’s going to save our Church? It’s not our bishops, it’s not our priests and it is not the religious. It is up to you, the people. You have the minds, the eyes and the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that the priests act like priests, your bishops act like bishops, and the religious act like religious.” One more I promise but it was stated in the late 1800’s. William Booth, the founder of the Salvation Army siad; “The chief danger of the 20th century will be religion without the Holy Spirit, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, and heaven without hell.” What a prophetic statement. Is this not what we are witnessing today?
        Rev J

        • Messenger of the Most High on July 24, 2020 at 9:59 am

          The church is a place where tolerance and acceptance of diversity should happen, the way Jesus did. Should be a place where everyone feels welcome as part of the brotherhood of man and the family of humanity.

          Unfortunately many churches nowadays are run by racists extreme right leaders promoting politics and discrimination from the pulpit. The church is not the place to preach white nationalism or any other extreme right values which are against the Great Commandment give by Jesus.

          • Jeremy Bickel on July 24, 2020 at 3:19 pm

            Jesus said that He didn’t come to bring peace, but a sword! He came to divide us into two camps – sheep and goats. The brotherhood of man is the World, and it’s up to the Church to tell them they are going to suffer in Hell and they must accept Christ!

            The Church has nothing at all to do with the politics of the Earth, except insofar as they outline the need for The Savior.

            If you confess with your mouth Master Jesus and believe in your heart that He died *for our sins*, was buried, God has raised Him from the dead, and He was seen afterward by many witnesses, then you have faith and confession that saves and leads to righteousness. Doing Romans 10:9a & 10:10b for salvation, due to believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, results in the righteousness of Romans 10:9b & 10:10a.

            THIS is what the Church is to preach to the lost and unregenerate World.



      • Emmanuel on August 29, 2020 at 3:37 am

        Please tell me about tightening,last two weeks I paid my tight but not complete I had 25,000 and before Sunday I was left with 1,000. So I used to pay tight,my friend said for me not to pay a complete tight I have stolen from the lord ,I refuse to agree with him on that .

  26. Kevin Untener on May 26, 2020 at 7:56 pm

    I remember commenting here in the past, but don’t quite remember what I said. Either way, I was wrong to comment on here or anywhere for that matter. Any grievances one may have with another is to be worked out with the one they have it with, not on a blog. So I misspoke. A good church within the Church will instill a foundational seed to sustain a lifetime. If you are leaving church for more time on Sunday that’s one thing, If you are leaving church because of issues, at least bring them up first and try to work them out. Work out your own salvation. I had no issue with the church I left, but may have had issues with its mother church and didn’t air it out in the most prudent fashion. Unfortunately those churches are pretty closely tied and I may have caused issues commenting on this Blog. My apologies.

  27. Bob Emery on May 22, 2020 at 4:15 pm

    Do you really think the church would have a place for me: an elderly, single, introverted, rather socially inept man? If so, you’re believing your own propaganda. The church is a place intended to reassure the conventional young to middle-aged nuclear family that it is doing the right thing. The church has room for no one else.

    • Jason Mauk on May 26, 2020 at 10:14 am

      Actually, Bob, the above article shows the opposite. The church is a people–a broken, sinful, at times God-opposing and human offending people. And in God’s perfection and holiness and wisdom, He has chosen to use people to influence other people in order to more clearly see Him–the One who is perfect. This is not merely for young to middle aged; it is for the oldest in society also, in order that every human being can begin to see themselves in light of the One who is not broken and sinful being revealed at times in those who are, as they find in Him their greatest treasure. The oldest in our communities can be the most influential as they desire to not waste their influence in their later years by revealing the One who is patient with the young to middle-aged.

      • lawrence law on November 18, 2020 at 5:40 am

        The church is a social minefield. People gather to socially compare and socially discriminate. I tried it, do not like it, not buying that snake oil again. The church I am enjoying now is the small gathering of believers (less than 12) without any church affiliation. We are bonded by the common like-mindedness of sincere brotherly love. Offering each other sincere and respectful social support apart from the study of scripture.

        The blame is not on the organized Church only, for they are just meeting pent up demand.

        • Jeremy Bickel on November 18, 2020 at 10:58 am

          Does your likeminded separation from Scripture include anything that worships our Master Jesus Christ? If so, then it is a church, just like the denominations, because the Bible is the existential control that defines what is, and it says that God is there with the two or three who are gathered together in the name of the Master Jesus Christ. If not, then you are just a club. Don’t be a look-alike (pseudo, anti-, different) church without Christ, but be a small church (and maybe smaller than you’ve been if it’s necessary) with Christ. Do you practice singing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, confessing your faults to each other, teaching, rebuking, exhorting each other, giving over the body of the sibling in Christ who will not stop sinning some particular sin over to Satan for the buffeting of the body and the saving of the soul, taking each thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ and praying without ceasing? These are the things in the post-Resurrection Bible for the Church. If you all do these things, then you’ll all be luxuriating in righteousness and your siblingly love in Christ will grow (and humanistic pseudo-love and your flesh will have a harder time controlling you all together).

    • Susan Browning on May 28, 2020 at 3:11 pm

      My church is filled with them and women too because I happen to be one of them. Keep going!!!

    • Mark on August 9, 2020 at 7:57 am

      Bob, please join us for worship each Wednesday night at 7:30 (eastern time). You will be encouraged and strengthened in the LORD.

  28. Laurence D'Alberti on May 8, 2020 at 3:12 am

    I thought I surrendered to Christ and accepted Salvation 20 years ago. It was a straight up deception. Maybe I had unrealistic expectations – you know him being God and all that – he can do anything right? Wrong! From the first day I accepted Christ I lost my personal life and ended up alone for 20 years straight and depressed about it. I couldn’t even find one single woman at the Church that I could even just talk to never mine anything else. 20 years of my life gone – poof – just like that. That is not what I signed up for and I’m angry and bitter my life ended up this way when I thought God would give me a life – he gave me isolation and solitary confinement for 20 years. Have you ever heard of a worse abomination of women treating a man that bad? If this is Salvation – I want out ASAP – how do I reverse the process? Do I have to pray to Satan to get God off my back tormenting me?

    • Michael Schmidt on May 9, 2020 at 3:51 pm

      The church is going off a cliff. God never intended for a church to be unbalanced, and these worldly seeker driven churches are unbalanced. They compromise biblical standards. Too much emphasis is put on doing whatever it takes to grow the church and win the lost. These churches are worldly. We must not act like the world to reach the world, and that is what these churches are doing. Too many are led by unqualified or under qualified pastors and staff. Take a look at Joel Osteen America’s favorite evangelical preacher. He has no ministry credentials. his messages are unbiblical. Today’s church would rather have an unqualified hipster pastor than an older, wiser more experienced pastor. the church is screwed up. A lot of the music is awful. messages are little sermonette pepe talks. The church has burned to many people, being more about power and love. I totally get it why people do not go to church anymore. – Michael Schmidt D.Min. Ed.D. ABD

      • Michael Schmidt on May 9, 2020 at 3:54 pm

        should say the church is more about power than love. should say pep talk not pepe talk

    • pradeep ivon on May 9, 2020 at 8:45 pm

      dear Laurence, i feel for you and would have surely felt same way at your younger age (i am married with family of 2 daughters) but wondering what exactly happened when you accepted Christ and what kind of church or fellowship you were attending where everyone boycotted you. Yes carrying the cross of Jesus isolates you from the world and your outlook to the world (materialism, success & ambition) must change because all my life i have been a regular church guy and was active since the youth days (59 now) but it is only in recent about 4-5 years i have started taking the Word of God seriously after i witnessed incidents in my life where i was miraculously saved in a certain deadly car accident and then during a leg fracture while on leaves at home started watching God Tv -these incidents plus sudden thunderbolt of fatal sickness of wife (brain tumor-surgery etc) in which the fervent prayers of all friends, family & church have indeed given her healing and carried her till date in the 2nd year whereas the neurosurgeon had given no hopes being grade 4 cancer, this also changed my outlook to the conventional church and gave better insight of the Bible. I am sure there are people out here in the world who always connect to each other no matter what your belief/ ideology.
      and now this global suffering and shut down of churches has indeed revealed that the Word of God is the only truth and Jesus is the only name above all names and we all must take this opportunity to go deeper into our own study of Bible and start reaching out to others as the final great mission of Jesus expects from us otherwise whatever we may do it is vain if we have not listened and obeyed our savior Lord- you are on the right track dear brother let us know what exactly you mean by ´accepted christ´!

    • Jeremy Bickel on May 12, 2020 at 1:09 pm

      He called and you called back. You belong to Him. Give in. Do you understand how good He is?! He is your life, and if you are obstinate about it, He will still have His way with you, but it will hurt bad. Tell Him your frustrations, and ask Him what He wants you to do instead of your unfulfilled desires. He has something that will fulfill you more, but if you are petulantly disregarding Him, then He has to make you feel very bad and rile you up just to get your attention! See? He is sovereign over you and the entire Universe! Don’t let His slow gentleness make you think that He doesn’t really control you or His toughness make you think He doesn’t love you. Like a father who knows how to handle his children, Master Jesus Christ handles us firmly out of love to *change* us into something that He has planned for us since before the world began!! Let Him.

    • Chaz on May 26, 2020 at 9:49 am

      Not everyone is meant to get married and to even stay married. Paul gives his explanation of this in 1stCorinthians Chapter 7.

      Sometimes working on strengthening our faith by studying the bible can help us all to deepen our faith overall. We know that God does have a plan for all of us; sometimes it involves a wife or husband or not, and children or not. We think these human desires are up to us and there lies the problem.

      Being Christians requires us to become humble, patient, forgiving, loving, peaceful, kind, gentle, disciplined and faithful and these are things we all have to deal with and work on and often take a lifetime of work.

      We fool ourselves if we think that praying to Satan, even for an instant, is the way to get what you want in this life on earth. And that is just what he would like-for us to be fooled. Run, don’t walk, to the nearest dedicated and faithful clergy person you can for guidance and strength.

      • Hayes on May 31, 2020 at 12:42 pm

        Chaz,

        ”Being Christians requires us to become humble, patient, forgiving, loving, peaceful, kind, gentle, disciplined and faithful and these are things we all have to deal with and work on and often take a lifetime of work.”

        This quote, taken from your post, is an extremely common notion within Christendom, and a huge reason why believers become more than frustrated and ultimately throw in the towel. Even Christians can no more fulfill this list of “dos” and “don’ts” than fly.

        Literally, the only difference between a Christ follower and someone who has never met Him is that one has been made alive spiritually through the Holy Spirit, and the other has not.

        Forgiveness, love, peacefulness, humility, and grace are attributes placed within us as we mature, not “a lifetime of work“, as you put it. A true believer clings to God through Jesus Christ no matter how difficult life becomes because of the power placed within them to do so. The true believer is weak, frail, messy, sinful, and needy. In a nutshell, the Christian life is about resting and rejoicing in the work already done in our behalf, and spreading that good news as a result. It is not a work list.

        “I can’t do all this… I can’t be what God wants me to be…“ There you have it. Of course we can’t, and the sad reality that this is what we get from many pulpits does more harm than good.

    • Robert Olson on June 9, 2020 at 1:19 pm

      Are you angry at God? Tell Him! Tell Him what you believed you would achieve from being a Christ – follower! Hold nothing back! And when you have completely emptied yourself to Him be silenced and open to the answer He is going to provide. Twenty or one hundred years may seem a long time but nothing compares to eternity! God loves you dearly (no matter what you think or the world tells you). He has made you fearfully and wonderfully, He knew you before you were knitted in the womb. And the devil? He doesn’t care a whit about you! He hates Jesus and wants to destroy something Jesus loves. YOU! Be strong and courageous dear friend!

    • Jenny on June 16, 2020 at 8:57 am

      Hey Lawrence:) It doesn’t sound like you truly were born again, thus, having received the Holy Spirit. The biggest misconception today is that we can save ourself, having not heard a calling in our spirit. The Holy Spirit must be dealing with us (drawing us to Christ) when we call to be saved because only the Holy Spirit knows when our heart is sincerely ready to take up our cross and daily and follow the Lord. Jesus Himself said “I am the way, the truth and the Life, no one goes to the father but through Me” and then He says this “No one comes to me except my Father draw him”.

      One way to know if your heart was sincere when you “thought you were saved 20 years ago” is to ask yourself what the motive was behind asking to be saved? Did you feel genuine repentance, knowing that you had been living wickedly and you KNEW the you were in direct opposition to God and needed to realign yourself with Him? Or was it all about making sure you went to Heaven? Did you seek His face? Did you have a hunger for Jesus and a thirst for the Word? Did you begin to see the things that are perfectly fine and normal before for their true sinful nature. True repentance leading to salvation brings true change of nature. Not a forced change of lifestyle but rather a natural change of ones old nature, usually starting with this new weird love, even for people that you don’t even know. You quit doing the things that you used to love but begin to be repulsed by. It’s an earmark of the indwlling of the Holy Spirit. You said that you wanted God to stop torturing you, pray to Him and ask Him to lead you to true repentance by helping you hate what is wicked and love what is good. It sounds like you need to get on your knees and cry out to God to deliver you from Satan, because it’s Satan that is trying to get you to curse God, just like he was trying to do with Job. Notice that it was when Job fully surrendered to God that He received back everything he had lost, and doubly so. I’ll pray for you my friend. God is faithful. We are the the unfaithful ones who separate ourselves from Him.

    • Jenny on June 16, 2020 at 9:16 am

      Also, I say this with love and pray you take this the way my heart intends 🙏🏻 I went back and mulled over your comment again and it struck me that it seems as though you were trying to fill the void in your heart that was meant for the love of Lord with the love of fleshly things. We have all done it. We always think that a new man or a new woman is the answer! That’s it, we say! If I just find the right one I will be happy and content. Sometimes God’s plan for us doesn’t look anything like we think it should look. Could it be that He’s kept you alone because you said you wanted Him but then sought-after everything besides Him? Was He in your heart? Or only in your pocket? I don’t know. But these are honest questions to ask yourself as you seek counsel from the Lord. You may even go so far as to ask Him to reveal if you were doing any of these things and if that’s why. If He shows you that there are truths, confess, repent and ask Him to help you do it right this time. The fact that you are on this blog post makes me feel that He is working on your heart and gives me hope that you are very close indeed to the saving hand of the Lord🙏🏻 God bless, I’m praying for you brother 🙏🏻

    • Natividad Mendoza on July 5, 2020 at 6:30 pm

      Simple, You have the wrong choices and don’t blame God, your life is your own responsibility! Probably you need God the most right now, Bless you, son

    • Tara on August 21, 2020 at 11:41 pm

      Hi Laurence,

      I wanted to encourage you that Proverbs 3: 5-6 states, “Trust in the Lord with all your (thine) heart and lean not to your own understanding, but in all your ways acknowledge Him (God 1st) and He shall direct your path. I understand that this road that we walk in with the Lord is enduring and a challenging one. Know this, God does not tempt man. Nor does he TORMENT. God is a Holy, sovereign, and jealous God. As well as, gracious, merciful, loving, and patient with His children (us). Plus so much more. So, know if anyone is tormenting you it is Satan himself putting lies in your mind that God can do anything that is not of righteousness unto who He is for the Christian life. When you gave your life over to Him 20 years ago, you have to realize that we will be TARGETED and TESTED on every side until we see Him again in Glory. However, in spite of what you endured. Have you considered the kind of season, tests, and trials you were needed to grasp before coming to the above conclusion? God never left you during your circumstance and you can go to Him boldly, seeking His face and still small voice to show you the way towards receiving the woman He has for you. Know that He is in control and wants to show you great and mighty things. Your spirit is troubled and I will be praying for you. I would also like for you to read and study the Word of God with other biblical resources: If you have a Holy Bible of course (my hope for you to get a LifeWay or any study bible staying closer to the KJV/NIV/CSB, etc), Bible Commentary, and meditate on God’s words with steadfast prayer. Here are some scriptures & principles for waiting on your Godly spouse and marriage. Genesis 24, Proverbs 31, Matthew 6:33, Jeremiah 29:11, Ephesians 5:22-33, Proverbs 13:20, 1 Corinthians 10: 13, 2 Peter 3:18, 1 Corinthians 6:19, Acts 28:31.

      I would like you to speak God’s word back to Him and go to Him in your darkest & loneliness hour. Pour out your heart to Him in sincerity and come unto the Lord with anything you need to confess to Him about first. God’s grace is always sufficient for you.

      I hope all is well! Here is a link for you to read too. 🙂 Link:https://biblereasons.com/marriage/

      Blessings,

      Tara.

  29. Richard Archer on April 26, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    Maybe you should start out by saying the Church is Perfect but Christians make mistakes. Likewise maybe you should say worship instead of church. We come together to praise (worship) God and on the First Day of the Week, The Lord’s Day to remember the Life, Death and Resurrection of the Son of God, The Word, The Light and the Savior. God took notice of us and added us to The Church.

    • Kathy Julian on May 3, 2020 at 11:19 am

      I’m being your by my husband and mother that I’d I hi to sb5013c church I’ve been deceived because they don’t teach the truth. I was raised in the church and have ministers in my family. If I go to church come back feeling wonderful and happy I walked through the doors and I’m told how could you go there. My husband thinks that God wants us to expose the evils of our government and 5G and Illuminati I tell him I’m not concerned because I have no control over them what I have control of is reading the Bible and praying to God for strength to overcome what’s ahead of me and to forgive me for the sins I know and send that I don’t. Am I wrong? I don’t think so I’m told that if I don’t believe like they do then I’m a lost soul. This is coming from people that don’t talk to others that at one time money and things of this earth were so important. They don’t look happy and they don’t talk about happiness. I tell everyone I know about God and all the miracles and things that he has done and provided for me and others who believe in him. I might not know my scriptures but I know that our God is a forgiving and wonderful God my husband said he got a vision from God of what he needs to do when he was young. He says he doesn’t need to read the Bible anymore because he’s already read it and doesn’t need it He needs to know about the evils of the world now , he’s so angry and it’s full of hatred towards our government and the United States. He says God wants to expose them.. Is that true. He watches a few people on YouTube who are against the government but they use scriptures to show that what they say and believe is scripture. I will go and look up scriptures that show what God promises us and guides us and he says I’m wrong that’s not what it means. He has gotten so angry with me and he’s evil things to me and wants to strike me and I feel like I’m being attacked because I don’t think the way to God is focusing the evils if the word and what I need to make me stronger is what I feel I have to do to be closer with God. Because when I look at the evils of the world and to being consumed by that that’s time taken away from me given God the glory. I have no place to go right now, I’ve supportted him for most of our 25 years together.. please pray for me to continue in the way I’m going and bring peace to my home. If you would answer my questions and send it to me so I can show him maybe I can show him why I feel the way I do in order for us to get closer with the Lord. The more we are filled with his grace and glory the last room is in us for hatred condemnations of others, and be at peace knowing our God is a forgiving God and I give him all the glory and that’s who I repent to.

      • maggie rose on May 4, 2020 at 8:29 am

        Hi. Please leave your abusive husband, speak to somebody you trust, a friend, a colleague, phone a women’s helpline, anything, your husband is going to ruin the rest of your life and control you, you cannot see it but I have gone through it. Pray to God for help too but you must get yourself out of your situation or tell your husband to get help for his problems because you cannot go on like this. I know it is hard to make the first step, you don’t know how to start changing things but you have to be strong and make that first step, do something to change things or it will get worse and you will get more and more sad and maybe even depression will set in which is not a good road to go down, believe me! If church makes you happy then go, don’t let your husband stop you – talk to someone in your family, you say there are ministers in your family, can you talk to them? There must be someone, just one person, you can confide in and ask for help and advice as your home situation is not a good one and you deserve to be happy – I am 57 and been on my own after an abuse relationship, not hitting but he controlled me and I was desperately unhappy – on my own for 15 years now and never regretted getting out of that. If you love your husband and want to be with him then talk to him sincerely and tell him you are unhappy and things need to change, if you do not love him and want out you need to do something fast! I will pray for you, please don’t stay as you are or things will get worse, do something to improve your life. God bless you.

        • steve on May 25, 2020 at 2:30 pm

          excuse me. But telling someone to leave their spouse for any reason other than what Jesus states is wrong. You should be praying with them, encouraging them to work their marriage in a Godly way.

          • Renee Schaecher on July 13, 2020 at 1:49 pm

            abuse is not part of the agreement. If she is in danger emotionally and /or physically she can leave. he has choosen to love another. The advise given to her is good. Work it out if you can but if his anger and violence is ruining your life then respect his choice and move on with what God wants you to do. God does not require one to stay when there is danger to life as she discribes….



          • Screw You on July 30, 2020 at 4:28 pm

            ^^^And this is exactly the kind of sanctimonious crap shoveled out by Steve that is driving people away from the modern church in droves…



          • Jeremy Bickel on July 30, 2020 at 6:20 pm

            —————————————-
            Screw You on July 30, 2020 at 4:28 pm

            ^^^And this is exactly the kind of sanctimonious crap shoveled out by Steve that is driving people away from the modern church in droves…
            —————————————-

            The morality of Christianity is *different* than the ethics of psychological humanism. I haven’t closely followed the case here and don’t need to – that’s the point I’m making right now – the Bible’s morality (whatever it does say that pertains to this case or any case) is exactly what *Christians* should do.

            The World is incapable of righteousness, because righteousness only comes by belief in the Resurrection of Christ on the third day by someone who has verbally confessed Master Jesus due to believing His death is effective to save.

            OF COURSE, it *seems* to the World (and the ignorant and babyish Christian) to be “sanctimonious” or many other foolish or harsh things, but that’s because the World minds the things of the flesh, and the untrained Christian hasn’t yet developed the mind of Christ to the point of considering many of the things of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, Who’s law we Christians are under.

            If it helps anyone here, remember that Paul said that he was convinced that nothing is unlawful for us, but not everything is expedient to bring about goodness.

            There *IS* a way that goes beyond psychological humanism which can turn a loathsome relationship into a happy, healthy, joyous one. ..but I wouldn’t want the World to have it, because it might seem like Christ is not needed when the basic things of living go very well, due to the practice of Christ’s morality. And I wouldn’t want the the babyish Christian to be deprived of learning beyond the surface by always having it too easy and wasting this lifetime of preparation before eternity.

            If you are a Christian, do the best righteousness you can and take all your next steps, regardless of how the surface looks. If you *know* that it’s against your own conscience – DON’T DO IT! If you are of the World, leave from here. These things are not for you. You will hurt yourself by gaining any knowledge of Christ’s goodness, and His wisdom will be a trap to you. You must only confess with your mouth Master Jesus due to believing His death is effective to save and believe that He was buried, then He was raised up from death on the third day in accordance with the prophesies of the Scriptures, and then He was seen by a great cloud of witnesses, indeed. Run to Master Jesus.

            Christian, rely on Master Jesus, and He will promote you. Even if your spouse is not a Christian, don’t leave – not because you are not allowed, but because your righteousness might turn your spouse toward Christ when your prayerful well-doing fills up and is no longer able to be denied or overlooked.. …and praise Master Jesus for it.



        • Robert on December 8, 2020 at 7:24 am

          Hi Maggie. Your selfishness, pride and self-righteousness is not what Jesus Christ teaches us. The Truth is that you deserve Hell Maggie just as much as the worst of husband abusers, including your own husband who you justify yourself to abuse in return for his abuse. You should address your hardened-heart honestly to be able to start to forgive yourself and others, including God and including your own husband, of both whom you lost faith in and are still forsaking all these years later. His disciples; brothers, sisters, husbands and wives should be supporting each other in our assurance and faith to God, allowing our hard trials and difficult circumstances to build us up, and to create for us endurance and hope to be sought after, and definitely should not be used as an attempt to justify our sin of divorce and promote abuse to response to abuse. Your suggestion to this woman to leave her spouse for any reason is atrociously evil and not of the Holy Spirit Maggie, and you are called to repent immediately. Best, Robert

      • Jeremy Bickel on May 12, 2020 at 1:29 pm

        Master Jesus, You know the problems we face when our loved ones are full of hatred and obstinate disregard of Your will. Please give us peace of mind to continue to rely on You no matter what others do. Make us loving in the face of hatred and generously giving, doing what we know You want us to do, even in the face of fearful abandonment that disregards You in search of fear-laced lusts. You know how to break the strongholds. Break them in this case, and glorify Yourself by transforming the lives of all those whom You know belong to You, Master Jesus. Thank You. Amen.

        Salvation doctrine: Doing Romans 10:9a & 10:10b, due to believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, results in Romans 10:9b & 10:10a.

        Start there. Get to know God’s loveliness and helps and gentleness and truth and kindness and sincerity, and endure dear sister, not in fear, but in faith, strongly.

        Let it all be as God wills it in Jesus’ name to His glory.

      • Phil Imm on October 9, 2020 at 8:08 pm

        Looks like you married a man who is alienated to God. – Stopped reading God’s word. Accuses everyone else including his own wife – his supporter for 25 years! Hates US authority enstated by God. Listens only to those on YouTube who speak into his judgmental and criticizing heart. He has love for diverse arguments – have nothing to do with them. There is no love nor forgiveness for people. No patience nor teaching in love. He is condemning everyone else except “Search ME O God, Know my heart O Lord, Try ME O Lord and see if there be any wickedness in ME.
        (in your letter you are actually doing the searching and asking us if you and your love feelings and correcting him to turn to LOVE and to GOD… are wrong! You are inviting us to be your conscience to help you as your conscience is being seared by an external bully!)

        SEE how many MEN divorced gentile women for the sake of keeping their conscience clear before GOD. Their obedience to a command to be separate from the Gentiles.

        EZRA 10
        17 and by the first day of the first month they had come to the end of all the men who had married foreign women.

        18 Now there were found some of the sons of the priests who had married foreign women: Maaseiah, Eliezer, Jarib, and Gedaliah, some of the sons of Jeshua the son of Jozadak and his brothers. 19 They pledged themselves to put away their wives, and their guilt offering was a ram of the flock for their guilt. 20 Of the sons of Immer: Hanani and Zebadiah. 21 Of the sons of Harim: Maaseiah, Elijah, Shemaiah, Jehiel, and Uzziah. 22 Of the sons of Pashhur: Elioenai, Maaseiah, Ishmael, Nethanel, Jozabad, and Elasah.

        23 Of the Levites: Jozabad, Shimei, Kelaiah (that is, Kelita), Pethahiah, Judah, and Eliezer. 24 Of the singers: Eliashib. Of the gatekeepers: Shallum, Telem, and Uri.

        25 And of Israel: of the sons of Parosh: Ramiah, Izziah, Malchijah, Mijamin, Eleazar, Hashabiah, and Benaiah. 26 Of the sons of Elam: Mattaniah, Zechariah, Jehiel, Abdi, Jeremoth, and Elijah. 27 Of the sons of Zattu: Elioenai, Eliashib, Mattaniah, Jeremoth, Zabad, and Aziza. 28 Of the sons of Bebai were Jehohanan, Hananiah, Zabbai, and Athlai. 29 Of the sons of Bani were Meshullam, Malluch, Adaiah, Jashub, Sheal, and Jeremoth. 30 Of the sons of Pahath-moab: Adna, Chelal, Benaiah, Maaseiah, Mattaniah, Bezalel, Binnui, and Manasseh. 31 Of the sons of Harim: Eliezer, Isshijah, Malchijah, Shemaiah, Shimeon, 32 Benjamin, Malluch, and Shemariah. 33 Of the sons of Hashum: Mattenai, Mattattah, Zabad, Eliphelet, Jeremai, Manasseh, and Shimei. 34 Of the sons of Bani: Maadai, Amram, Uel, 35 Benaiah, Bedeiah, Cheluhi, 36 Vaniah, Meremoth, Eliashib, 37 Mattaniah, Mattenai, Jaasu. 38 Of the sons of Binnui: Shimei, 39 Shelemiah, Nathan, Adaiah, 40 Machnadebai, Shashai, Sharai, 41 Azarel, Shelemiah, Shemariah, 42 Shallum, Amariah, and Joseph. 43 Of the sons of Nebo: Jeiel, Mattithiah, Zabad, Zebina, Jaddai, Joel, and Benaiah. 44 All these had married foreign women, and some of the women had even borne children.

  30. Atu Lagi on April 23, 2020 at 5:51 pm

    I’m enjoying the reading this morning. Like many of you, we have been disappointed with the church. The building, the organisation, with all the structures etc. I grew up with the concept that church was to do with the venue, where you go for worship, and the church as the building or house of God, and everything that associates with it is the church.
    Today I have been set free delivered by the idol called the church to how it was preached and reinforced by many who have either misled people or have taught on the subject. I don’t have to be in a church building to be the church. I am the church, the body of Christ, the living temple of God. That does not mean that we become and island but the bible encourages us not to forsake the habit of meeting together( Fellowship)
    It’s sad to see that the church is riddled with all kinds of secular ideologies, worldly-systems in trying to sell or promote the church. Jesus said if you love one another then the world will know that you are my disciples. Acts 2 how the believers lived their lives was so amazing that God begins to add numbers to the fellowship. People were drawn into the fellowship not because of good technology and don’t get me wrong its good to use this means of tech as a way of communication. But, the way they lived their lives that became very attractive. My prayer as a Christian and as a pastor that we will go back to scripture. Many of this also had to do with the use of language that brings a lot of confusion and misunderstanding? today when people asked me if I went to church, I respond by saying no I didn’t I am the church, but I went to fellowship with other Christians.
    I would love to expound a bit more but I will stop there for now and might continue later on. pray the lords blessing as we serve our Lord and King Jesus Christ.

    • Jeremy Bickel on May 3, 2020 at 8:11 am

      “Master Jesus, let us always remember that we do have all spiritual blessings in the Heavenlies. Bolster our faith in You on this Earth, and give us what we physically need. Make us a beacon of light, and make us salt on the Earth to Your glory, great God. Amen.”

    • Monica Rodriguez-Corona on May 11, 2020 at 7:31 pm

      I am so appreciative of your beautiful and honest comment, as well as Carey’s wonderful article. How relieving, refreshing, and encouraging it is to read and know, first, that other brothers and sisters in Christ have come to learn, realize, and to experience the church the way our Faithful Lord Jesus describes it and teaches us about in Scripture. And secondly, that I am not and have never been alone. I so much resonate with your comment. Thank you again for sharing from your faithful servant’s heart and love of our Good Father God. Praised and Honored be to Him for spiritual discernment among the brethren! May His grace and mercy be with you all at all times in Jesus name.

  31. APKun on April 22, 2020 at 4:59 am

    That God would use ordinary, broken human beings as vessels of his grace, and delight in it, is awe-inspiring. He’s proud of how his grace is beating through your imperfect-but-redeemed life and through the church (have you ever read Ephesians 3: 10-11?).

  32. APKun on April 22, 2020 at 4:20 am

    That God would use ordinary, broken human beings as vessels of his grace, and delight in it, is awe-inspiring. He’s proud of how his grace is beating through your imperfect-but-redeemed life and through the church (have you ever read Ephesians 3:10-11 ?).

  33. Joseph Hammond on April 14, 2020 at 8:14 pm

    Thank you for sharing this info, I truly liked your storytelling fashion.

    • Moji ok on April 17, 2020 at 12:13 am

      I love this response. Thanks for this. So true and relevant even now.

    • Lisa Champion on April 20, 2020 at 12:12 pm

      When writing something like this, consider the audience and not just want you are compelled to communicate. This whole thing says leaving is a “mistake” and that people “should” be fascinated by the imperfection of the church. While it’s a dope revelation for you, someone hurting from the church will need more than religious obligation and what you think they should feel in order to re-engage. I still attend church despite years of hurt, because I realize it’s helped me more than it’s hurt me. I realize that allowing myself to be exposed to healthy Christians (after learning to establish the right boundaries) will challenge me not to end up following a Jesus that agrees with me and makes me feel perfectly comfortable. I have had to deliberately separate what the church is with who Jesus really is. I have taken breaks to sit with God and worship in for a month before returning. I listen to sermon messages with solid teaching to make sure I remember who the person is beyond the building. I read my bible. I still attend small groups and women’s groups. I mean, I relate to those who have walked away so reading this, I see how it misses the mark. Rather, show people how to re-engage in a healthier way, and don’t call what they’re doing a mistake. Of course you think that. They know you do. Speak to them where they are, not where you are.

  34. pradeep ivon on April 14, 2020 at 5:43 am

    since the spread of the Corona pandemic across the world all worship places have been shut down including the local church we used to go and entire lent period has been spent in isolation at home I understand that with locked down churches we are prevented by the Lord from exercising an external ritualistic form of worship that was giving us a false sense of being faithful in fact i have realized now is the time to introspect our faith in the Lord and check whether our lives are justified and righteous and if we are indeed christian believers (different from being a church attendee); during this period as the services are being telecast on social media by all church pastors i understand it is now duty of a mature christian to diligently study the word, understand it and attempt to reach out to non believers in a sermon or message sent on social media – social distancing between people should tell us to keep intimate proximity to our saviour Lord Jesus in whatever time we have on earth:not being pessimist but realization has to dawn on believers to carry out our duty of the great mission of Jesus Christ- to witness and tell about Him to each and everyone as no greater sign on end times have been seen in our generation than this terrible pandemic threatening to devour the humanity-which is also part of several prophecies in the Holy Bible. God bless you dear sisters & brothers in Christ!

    • Hector Hernandez on April 16, 2020 at 7:12 pm

      Amen to you. My faith has gotten firmer in my belief that “God Loves You” God shows His love through His Son Jesus. Who is our doorway…

  35. Heather Z. on April 13, 2020 at 6:47 pm

    The problem with “Church” is that most of them belong to the Harlot of Babylon. They don’t teach sound doctrine, and they are as worldly as a country club. Yes, I’m tired of Church, because I can’t find one that demands holiness from it’s members; there’s no accountability — NONE! So the time of the church as we know it is coming to an end, it’s time once more for a wilderness experience, to be alone with God in prayer and in his word. And I for one, am loving it! Who needs unity when the unity they offer is error? Not me! I am a Church of one — two if you count Jesus as High Priest, and I do!

    • JOHN MOORE on May 3, 2020 at 6:22 am

      One with another is all over the New Testament. You and Jesus, your High Priest, are to share life one with another. Christ is not the “another.” People are. You alone are not the body of Christ. We are.

      Who are YOU holding accountable? Looking for accountability? Disciple someone in Christ and hold him accountable as he will then do with you. Certainly you do not intend to hold Christ accountable, do you? There is no such thing as a church of one.

      I hope you have some appreciation for me holding you accountable to this truth.

    • Lil on December 4, 2020 at 9:13 pm

      Hi Heather Z. Praise God you have obeyed Rev elation 18: where God’s people are warned to “Come out of her My people…” That is Babylon.
      God spoke to my Papa when he was praying and asking God what church did He want him to put his name on, there was a bright light shown down from heaven over him and a voice said, “Do not put you name on no man made church book for they are ALL Babylon, as long as your name is written in the Lambs book of Life that is all it takes for you to work for me.” For the preacher had told him he had to go join “A” church to be able to work for God. Before God took Papa home to be with Him, he was in a hospital with tubes in him, he raise up and looked down the hall, and said to my sister, “Do you see those three men coming up the hall in white? They are coming to take me where Ruby (Mama) is. Heaven. Papa pulled all the tubes out, and laid back on his pillow and was gone. He was 91 and never put his name of a man made church book. Does anyone ever think what the “books” are, wherein is documented what members “works are”? Those I would consider to be all the different denominations church books that keep records of what their members pay and do, that was not found in the book of Life. I am 85, never had my name on no man made church book. God has used me as He did my parents. Since the Bible is our teacher, God can speak to us just as He did anyone in the Bible. Only believe. No one is born a sinner! No one has got to get born again! No one has got to join a church and pay the human god a dime out of a $! No one will go to hell for robbing God of tithes and offering! Ask God Almighty to open your eyes of understanding of His Word. God Bless every soul! Every one is a child of God, but every one does not obey our Heavenly Father. God did not send Jesus to condemn the world, but that the world through Him MIGHT BE SAVED. Already born again to be able to call upon God for yourself! Believe, Repent, ask forgiveness and be Saved from your sins.
      Praying for everyone!

    • Jonathan on April 16, 2021 at 7:23 pm

      I agree . I believe church is supposed to be full of love and joy and kindness and not liars cheats scam artist and these are the people running it I mean don’t get me wrong I believe church itself is a GOOD thing and church can be in your living room with just you and God but God is love god is kindness so how can a priest lead his flock if he himself is sinning ? but these reasons this guy has isn’t correct why people don’t attend church . I suggest asking people why and not assuming why they no longer attend I guarantee you will hear well I was judged by what I wore to church or I was told if I don’t give monies to the offering then I’m cheating God . Yeah strange God needs my money I would rather give him my heart soul and body. I bet you also hear they told me if I didn’t know or say what they wanted I didn’t love god who are they to tell you how you feel about god it’s like that country song (Me and Jesus have our own thing going ) god wants use to question everything not judge one another GOD is good God loves us and to be closer to GOD we have to love one another. I also believe we all have a good and evil voice and depending on your choices in life with both as a guide it’s ultimately up to you on your choices that is free will God test us everyday and just like every parent wants the best for there child but eventually you need to let them live and learn on there own with guidance from us as parents to guide towards good choices GOD treats all his children equally god teaches us in situations and guides as well as the devil guides and depending on your choices you will either do good or evil . I didn’t see this until I gave my heart body and soul to god he opened my eyes and showed me the path to heaven with him he showed me in order to be righteous is to just be GOOD that’s it ask for his mercy and forgiveness never break a promise to god love god with the good and the bad love him regardless because he doesn’t want to see his children suffer or sad or in pain no parent would . If he churches where to except all and how they look or how much money they have and except questioning everything like god wants we will lose the churches and the faith in god but money is the root of all evil so many churches want to be rich. I would rather be rich in god and my family love I will follow god always and I pray god put it in these leaders hearts to teach about god not what they think god would want . When is the last time any of you have went to church and actually learned about GOD or his lessons I mean when have any of you ever just tried talking to God . What preachers don’t really teach is everyone can literally talk with God seems people only think priest or preacher can only talk to God for them and that’s definitely not true I have spoken with GOD he showed me a new path and call out the cheats and liars and scam artist he gave us a voice and a mind to think with why not ask questions or question the current bibles cause the Bible has been historically proven of change to benefit the church or the priest them selves and the King James Bible was actually a Bible writ ting by a king out of spite for the Catholic Church I mean just ask GOD people he will answer but don’t expect him to just come out and talk like your buddy sitting next to you . You have to actuall Listen for God and i promise GOD will answer God is with in us all we just need to know how to reach him and make a change and worship god not material things we think represents god but find God within ourselves.

  36. Joan Ginsbutg on April 5, 2020 at 8:09 pm

    I would love to have a printed copy of this article for my daughter. Is it possible to send this to me or show how I can print a “condensed” version” of the article? “Christians who are Done with Church”

    • Gai on April 18, 2020 at 11:58 pm

      If you open a Word Document you can save a copy of the article there and then condense it yourself, deleting parts if you feel the need to do so, and then save changes and print your shorter version of the article.

      To save document to Word , first press Control A on the web page to highlight the article, then Control C to copy then go to your new Word document and press Control V to paste the article there.

      I hope this helps, Joan.
      Just a thought – is the Lord using the gift of ministering (giving practical help) in this virtual church situation that we find ourselves in?

  37. Aileen Rodriguez on March 25, 2020 at 2:41 am

    I don’ t know what are you thinking about Church but it’s not only for a place for worship. According to me Church is the place where people together without any discriminations, spreading love and faith and also good messages.

    • Antony on March 25, 2020 at 4:24 pm

      I find it difficult going to church and it’s not a reflection on ANY of the people who go there, they all go out of their way to make me feel welcome. It’s not them it’s me 🙂

      I have some sort of mental idiosyncrasy that makes me long for people’s company and greatly enjoy it but at the same time look forward to the relief of being alone again. I tried to explain this to my gf Prue a couple of years ago when we were splitting up but I think I made a mess of it.

      I suspect that there’s a place for me, a very sparsely populated place, in God’s plan and maybe I can fit in with that plan without having to go to a church. I hope so. I was an SDA for 13 years and these days there’s a cafe in town I go to on Saturdays where I sit with my iPad and a long black coffee (just one a week – occasionally two) and study God-stuff. I write about it as I do this; this helps me with discernment and is something I’ve done since I started prep school back in 1951. It also helps me remember the logic behind my beliefs concerning God, Jesus, the Bible, etc. Now and then I get a chance to talk about that with people when they ask me what I’m reading or writing.

      I like to think mine is the personality that God meant me to have (tho could be wrong about that) and that God’s happy for me to go with that. I sincerely hope that is the case and that I’ll be joining you all in the after-life one day.

      Btw they’ve closed all the cafes in Australia since last Saturday. And churches. No doubt there’ll be plans B for both of us.

      Thanks Aileen, I wrote this for general community consumption not as a reply to you but took advantage of your post until I can work out how to otherwise post a comment.

    • Dale Hanken on May 12, 2020 at 9:20 am

      I quite church because all I found was discrimination. Lies like love the sinner, hate the sin. Whose sin. Prayers for discrimination against fools who don’t want to sell to the LGBT. I don’t care who someone loves if they are happy. God says not to judge and we are all sinners doesn’t say what is worse sin
      Then the fools say the earth is 10000 yrs ago. Surprised those dinosaurs didn’t eat those jews in the desert. No I’m done. I won’t pay a bunch of crooks for their prayers

      • Jeremy Bickel on August 29, 2020 at 9:34 am

        Hate YOUR sin, Dale. Hate your own sin, first. But listen, if you haven’t done the gospel first, then no amount of morality can help you! Confess with your mouth Master Jesus, and believe in your heart that He died for our sins according to the Scriptures (He didn’t just die – He did it on purpose, because we needed Him to, just like the prophesies of the Old Testament said He would die and just like the Scriptures of the New Testament recorded it), then He was buried, then God raised Him from the dead on the third day (exactly in accordance with the Scriptures), then He was seen by Peter, and the 12 disciples, and more than 500 brothers at once (most of whom were still alive when this formulation of the gospel was going around), then He was seen after His Resurrection by James, and the disciples (besides the 12, who followed Him around), then He was seen by Paul, who wrote about half the New Testament. Confess with your mouth Master Jesus, because you believe THESE THINGS. THAT’S ALL. HE is Master, not your church and not your imagination about Him. He can see your heart, man! Fear Him!!!!

        After that, these other things will make more sense, and you’ll be in a better position to appreciate the good and to work against the evil, helpfully and from a standpoint of actual love. God does hate the sin, but not the sinner – He loves the sinner, as evidenced by sending His only natural Son to be beaten and die (even though He didn’t deserve any such thing – He’s The King Of Kings!). God’s love is active, see, and not just words. We really are naturally wicked — it’s really quite obvious, and even our coverings of good works are wicked coverings to attempt to cover up our own evil; it’s impossible! Merely believing on Christ for what He’s done and calling on His name – Master Jesus – not only covers us but also gives us power to work against our sin (which we never had naturally), because God’s Spirit is inside all who are saved according to the Scriptures.. Fear, speak AND do this little thing, and trusting Him always to do it for us, since we know we have believed Him and confessed Him and done all God has given us little, putrid people to do.

        Doing Romans 10:9a & 10:10b for salvation, due to believing 1 Corinthians 15:3-8, results in the righteousness of Romans 10:9b & 10:10a. (We get righteousness by believing the Resurrection! Wild, isn’t it?! The Spirit Who raised Him from death is full of goodness and He loves righteousness – we real Christians have a literal new nature, not only psychologically but thoroughly and in fact).

  38. Jim on March 22, 2020 at 8:08 am

    What about many of us good single men that don’t have a wife and family? And many of us would’ve really wanted that as well.

  39. Kenneth Gray on March 12, 2020 at 11:50 am

    I stopped going to Church because I can’t afford to go.
    God hasn’t given me enough to be a proper Christian. I can’t afford to pay tithes, give offerings, help the poor and pay my expenses. You don’t know how often I don’t have clean clothes, because I don’t have the money needed. When I look in a modern church, all I see is excessive wealth. God doesn’t need Mahogany pews, or a gigantic pipe organ, not to mention the expensive stained glass or the gold decorations. On top of that most Churches treat you with distain if you can’t afford 10% every week. I get paid once a month so 10% every week adds up to 40% to 50% of my income. The way that Churches seem to covet money is appalling. Look at TV preachers, always demanding money for God’s free word. Churches (religion) is no longer about fellowship, God or Jesus, it has become a greed inspired business. Every week the Pastors sermon seems to include preaching about giving more money to the church. How many billions of dollars worth of treasure does the Catholic church hoard in the Vatican. I was told by a priest that the riches are God’s and can’t be spent to help people in need. The same priest said that it is every day Christians that are to help the poor, not the churches responsibility. I agree that Christians do have a responsibility to help the poor ( even when you are one of the poor), but I believe that the church should be helping people. Not hoarding wealth, God doesn’t have a use for riches. Church is always demanding more. Thanks for the opportunity to be “heard” and may God Bless You.

    • Guest on March 20, 2020 at 6:43 am

      I go to a Independent Baptist Church. They’re one of the groups that tend to believe in the Bible the most. They don’t force offerings, but they still use the collection plate for those that are willing to donate. It’s always good to go to a church that teaches the Word of God.

      • ChurchNBackbone on May 3, 2020 at 12:02 am

        “I go to a Independent Baptist Church. They’re one of the groups that tend to believe in the Bible the most. They don’t force offerings, but they still use the collection plate for those that are willing to donate. It’s always good to go to a church that teaches the Word of God.”
        Teach or they dictate? I will never darken the door of another IFB church!

    • Linda on April 11, 2020 at 5:41 pm

      Kenneth, I’m sorry about your experience. Yes, there are churches that seem to be constantly asking for money. If this has been your experience, please keep looking at different churches and ask God to send you to the right one. He will. God does tell us to pay tithe (10% of your income, not 40 or 50%), but He also promises to bless us when we do. Read that in Micah. Also, though churches are places to fellowship and worship God, your duty is to Him, not to the people running the church. In other words, read your Bible and follow it, not the people. Blessings as you keep searching for Him.

    • Paul on April 13, 2020 at 2:03 am

      This article is a terrible attempt to guilt Believers. I got so screwed by this huge mega church in Rancho Cucamonga, CA. The pastor (who is a disciple of Oral Robert’s ) runs an abundant $$$$ factory machine. Fancy cars, buildings and productions. A cheap imitation of Hollywood. And absolutely no accountability between attendees and leadership. Things get swept under the rug if ya know what I mean. I was devastated by what happened to me there and how I was treated when I transparently told leadership.
      I’m done with going to church. Hypocrites, backstabbers and liars.
      I will continue to read my Bible and pray and be accountable to my friends. I will also listen to my favorite pastor online, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!

    • rodrigo on September 12, 2020 at 6:52 am

      with all due respect, 10% is 10%, there is no way it adds to 30 or 40. I´m reading your arguments and the only thing I can say is, please check your math, you have a deep flawed understanding of percentage.

    • Jeremy Bickel on September 12, 2020 at 8:54 am

      Kenneth, what do these churches say about the gospel? I mean salvation doctrine? Being saved is the first priority, after all. What they seem to know for themselves and then what they tell others about it tells you whether they are trustworthy with other things.

      Doing Romans 10:9a & 10:10b for salvation, due to believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, results in the righteousness of Romans 10:9b & 10:10a! There are (as I’ve counted it) 4 beliefs and one action (which is not a work of the Mosaic Law, mind you, even though it *is* an action). Read it and do it directly. Then find out how much care is taken to explain it – do they ever mention Christ’s death *for our sins* or His Resurrection (or burial or subsequent witnesses)? Do they say that salvation comes by calling on the name of Master Jesus, confessing Him with your mouth? It’s what the Bible says. Paul said he got the set of beliefs that save us through a tradition; who are we to change such a tradition of such specific, concise, direct, exact things *to* believe about Christ? Who are we to say that the action of confessing with our mouths Master Jesus is not really salvation, even though Paul – the Apostle to the wider world beyond Israel – explicitly said – twice – that it is the turning point by which we are saved!?

      Now, reset. Go back and ask if they even mention any such thing at all. It is the definition of Christianity! :^D Use it to differentiate whether you are dealing with Christians in the first place. Do they praise God for His death for our sins? Do they consider in spiritual songs the Spirit Who raised Him up from the dead, by Whose Law we do behave with right behavior (Romans 8:2)? From there, do they feed you with knowledge that your sins are forgiven but that you must live by this other – non-written – law (Romans 6-8; Hebrews 5-10)?

      Find a church that teaches the basics of Christianity well and also adds good things from the whole Bible (teaching every single book in it), especially Paul’s letters, and which orders itself based on those New Testament books that focus on how an assembly of Christians should be and its authority (1 & 2 Timothy and Titus).

      Yearn toward God, Himself, directly, Christian! Love Him, and do whatever you know He has told us all. We are equal in Him. Take every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ (2 Corinthians 10:5). Do everything, working toward Christ and making Christ your pleasure every day and at all times, especially as you believe more and more that He is your life!

      We are not commanded to tithe. We are not ancient Israel!! The New Testament teaches us something wonderful about Law and about how we should act. Learn actual it, and live in Christ by His Spirit.

    • Christopher Daniel Spurling on January 26, 2021 at 6:14 am

      That priest had no idea what the truth was just like most these churches now days, your story actually makes every fiber of me want to cry for you. Those tithes are solely to provide for those who can’t provide for themselves but no church practices that, they all say if they were to give out to every need then there would no longer have a church, but if they were doing the real work of Yah they would give to all in faith and would never go without. I am so sorry they have treated you and many others this way Yah does love you sir.

  40. Pastor John Wagner on March 3, 2020 at 10:40 am

    What they will achieve in life who have done with the church? Patience is important, if you are keen to enjoy good times, be prepared for bad times as well.

    • William on July 3, 2020 at 2:13 am

      Let’s see, I’ve achieved peace and a better understanding of the gospel.

      Doesn’t sound like you’re concerned about the spiritual health of the people here who have endured spiritual abuse, “Pastor.” Sounds more like you’re interested in protecting your line of work.

  41. Samantha on January 19, 2020 at 2:46 pm

    I’m transgender. I also identify as a conservative(ish) Christian.

    I take to heart the verse in 1 Corinthians 6:9-12 where it says
    ” 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything.”

    The bulk of the LGBT ppl hate the church because they tell themselves that they are not sinful, or that the church hates them because it tells them the truth. Yes, you are sinful. So am I. So are drunks, con artists, prostitutes, and depressed people. That’s truth. “If we say we are without sin we deceive ourselves” and more importantly we are not doing our best not to be mastered by anything. We are letting sin control our political and social behaviors.

    So back to the point. These people want to remake the church so that it tells them what they want to hear, refusing to accept it until they split the church or something. If you killed two kids because you got really drunk one night and drove around, which is a more authentic message? “You did nothing wrong, you’re not responsible.” Or “yeah that did happen, but we’re gonna see if we can make you feel welcome and/or get you sober.” No, I don’t think gays need to change to be right with God. I’m LGBT myself, and I know that grace is about God redeeming at Christ’s expense, but one thing missing from this is a sense where we actually understand this isn’t of handing out a free pass to people who want to undermine the message of grace to turn it into “I’m okay you’re okay” time. Nah. I’m sinful, you’re sinful, now we need to understand this in order to understand why Jesus is in our lives, not go around destroying churches because they hurt our feelings.

    My church is about to split, and I honestly do not know what to do now.

    • wayne on January 29, 2020 at 2:55 pm

      If there is one thing God hates, its people who’s (inner) docile gullible beings (he describes as sheep) being led astray by the (inner) shepherds of church leaders by way of false teaching upon what he describes (metaphorically) as hills and mountains..beds..vineyards…secret chambers…stones..High places..and many many more.

      The bible is a spiritual book, the problem Iv’e had with ‘religious folk’ is they read it with a fleshy mind..and follow it in the same way..literally word for word

      You say people want to re-make the church so that it tells them what they want to hear..who are ‘These people’ that you mention?

      There is a verse in Isaiah 57 (6) which reads..

      Among the smooth stones of the stream is thy portion, they are thy lot…
      And he finishes by asking
      ‘Should I receive comfort (healing…peace) in these?’

      ‘These smooth stones’ are the very assemblies that will preach the things that the sheeple want to hear and promise the things that sheeple want to have (by way of false prophesies and interpretations of tongues) They tell their flock “everything is going to be alright”
      Hence the question..
      ‘Shall I receive comfort in these?’

      (Jeremiah 5v30-31 is relating to the same thing)

      You say your church is about to split?

      I say..

      Step through the chasm and move on..

      Psalm 91 v16 states that YOU will show him YOUR salvation
      Salvation is truth… So this will be YOUR TRUTH, and YOUR TRUTH (not mine) shall set YOU free

      Sod those who sit on the earthly judgement seats of the ‘High places’
      Prepare YOUR ‘stuff for removing’ (Ezekiel 12) by justifying YOUR reasons for departure..

      And leave

      Keep reading the scriptures, and seek for more of a spiritual understanding of them.

      And as you leave remember Jesus words

      And whosoever shall not receive you…..(Matthew 6v11)

      • Jeremy Bickel on January 30, 2020 at 2:25 pm

        Master Jesus’ is Truth. He sets free those who confess Master Jesus verbally to admit His Lordship openly and believe God resurrected Him, bringing salvation and righteousness in *this* world!

    • Jeremy Bickel on January 30, 2020 at 2:23 pm

      These confessions seem genuine, but you lack two things: 1) Confess verbally and openly admit that Jesus is Master. That is the only way the Bible gives us to be saved. If you are His slave, then 2) because you know that God resurrected Master Jesus, we who call on His name (“Master Jesus”), His slaves will be changed in our bodies when we see Him, and *that* drives us to do *everything* we know that God says He wants and is right. You seem to know that behaving with homosexuality is against God’s command, so do not. If you are totally unwilling, how do you know that the license you take is not an indication that you have not really confessed Jesus is Master? If you hold on to the world’s ways, there is a certain fear that remains, and fear is against your faith. You cannot have faith by willpower, but only by doing from the heart that form of confession He, through the witness of Paul, told us in Romans 10:9; see also verse 10 & 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 for the reasons behind the salvation doctrine of Romans 10:9. Christians do try to do the right thing in every area, and God pulls us up to doing so when we cry out to Him with a whole heart. People feel compelled into sin because of their lusts, and supernaturally compelled because of demons. There is a demon of homosexuality. God graciously warned us against the act. That is why the Church is so very much against it. Do not think of hurt feelings anymore, but laud Christ openly with actions that support words that are of great value in bringing Christians together.

  42. Sam on December 25, 2019 at 10:21 am

    Just saying, maybe it’s time articles like this stop the gaslighting, and the church admits what we already know:

    The. Church. Does. Not. Want. Men. Especially single ones.

    There, I said it, and it’s true. I’m one of the alienated ones, so I should know, and not just with one church.

    The church pedestalizes women and ignores their sin or blames it all on men, while endlessly castigating men for sin both real and imagined and labeling them with every negative label possible, the same way the world does.

    The church worships not The Lord, but weddings, marriage, children and families. The church alienates single men and then asks where they are.

    You, the church, know the answer, and no, it isn’t because the men hate God, it isn’t because they don’t seek The Lord.

    The men are not there because you do not want them there.

    You’d frankly rather they all die and go to hell than interrupt your unBiblical 24/7/365 familyolitry fest.

    As long as ageism, misandry, familyolitry and marriage statism are the orders of the day, the men will stay away.

    But you already know that.

    And last but definitely not least, how about teaching the Word Of God, as in the full council? All you do now is cherry pick verses entirely out of context and make entire doctrines around them.

    • mark kelly on January 9, 2020 at 8:27 pm

      Every self proclaimed christian I come across are all racial homophobes with no respect for women. Ashholes

      • Nback on May 3, 2020 at 12:13 am

        Sounds like you are a Christianphobe…not to mention your strawmans about no respect for women at all & racial homophobes

    • Grace on January 29, 2020 at 8:01 am

      Sam…Your perspective got my attention. I grew up with the nagging feeling that women are “second class” in Biblical history and in the church. However, it did not seem repulsive or unjust because it was Eve, after all, who introduced rebellion against the law of God. However, after years of study, that is, observing “life” from God’s viewpoint, that I realized He created men and women as separate and distinct genders who are dependent on each other allows us to grasp the multifaceted-being of our God. Therefore, whatever the reason that would cause anyone to feel demoted, it is Satan’s intention, not God’s.
      It is IMPERATIVE that we protect gender DISTINCTIVENESS and gender ROLES or we lose our proper understanding of all that God wants us to know to relate to Him properly. GENDER FRAUD is an abomination (stinking sin) to our Creator.

      • Xavier on June 11, 2020 at 10:54 pm

        Grace…(lol)
        This is exactly why people leave the church–idiots who claim to know how God thinks. This judgmental attitude is what will be your downfall. Your sin is not above anyone else’s– sin is sin. However, to the hypocrite (like you) that believes that they speak for God, they have never sinned a day in their life. LOL
        You can not save anyone from hell and you don’t get to decide who will go. Instead of being such a holier than thou hypocritical jerk try praying for someone’s salvation. You will be surprised to know that the hell you find yourself in will be just as hot as anyone else’s

    • JASON on March 20, 2020 at 8:05 am

      If you think women are ” second class” according to the bible, I would like to challenge you with this question.. Why did the son of man, choose a woman to be the very first person to see him after he rose from the dead? Why would man even add that to the bible if for one it wasn’t true or women had little value? I believe its because women are very important to the church

  43. bigpond imap setting on December 3, 2019 at 11:14 pm

    Excellent article..ts a good site to explore ..Thanks for the blog post.Really thank you! Much obliged..

  44. Fred on November 28, 2019 at 9:53 am

    Why am I done with church?

    Because the church is done with me! The church doesn’t want me or people like me in its midst.

    What is my crime? Why am I a pariah and therefore unwanted by the church?

    My age, gender, marital status and parental status. The church does not want single, mature unchilded men in its congregations. Period.

    Considering the last experience I had at church, in which the pastor’s wife – are you freaking kidding me!!! – told me I was being gossiped about after only a few visits where I’d revealed nothing about myself as I was only trying to observe at that point- I thought I would try one more time.

    Knowing already what most of the churches think of people like me, I emailed several churches just to test the waters before going, to see if a mature, single, unmarried and unchilded man would be welcome.

    No church – not one – even cared enough to respond to my questions. Not. Even. One. Let that sink in. I did.

    Now, if I was married with kids, I’d be just another one of the “good guys.” If I was a teenager or even college age, the same.

    But, as a single unmarried mature man, I am only fit to be marginalized and sent to hell.

    When you single ladies wonder where the single men are in church, ask your pastors. The pastors probably don’t want them around. Or, maybe you don’t want them around either.

    Predator. Potential rapist. Toxic masculinity. Creeper. Loser. This is what the church thinks of people like me.

    That’s why I’m sitting here on Thanksgiving Day writing this.

    Thank you so much, church. The love of Jesus is so evident in you. You should be proud of yourselves, in keeping “those people” out of your social club. I’m sure you already are.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 28, 2019 at 10:32 am

      After you let it un-sink in you, be the best Christian they’ve ever seen. Only talk about Christ – you don’t have a family to mention. Talk about Christ, helping them, and not always *just* revealing *them*. What does *Christ* mean to you ..relationship-wise?

      • Fred on November 28, 2019 at 12:11 pm

        Wow. I rest my case.

        • Robbin Meissner on December 5, 2019 at 3:41 pm

          I Have never been so betrayed than by those who sit in the seat of judgment in the name of Christ who loves me. I know they are few and far between who strive to realy know him. I hope for you brother and know the feeling of exile from the hearts that do not know him. Sorrow.

        • Jeremy Bickel on July 3, 2020 at 6:27 am

          Fred. I have no understanding of how you could have taken offense at my encouraging and real response to your dilemma. If you simply hate, then why look for people to try to be around in order to understand Christ together. Go off in your loneliness and find Him – He is there, also, you know. I’m not kidding of being flippant – I am quite sincere. Go away from these toxic churches.

          Do you look for a church that preaches the *real* gospel, or are *you* really looking for a social club? Think about it. Do you want a church that tells you that you are entirely wicked, even in your good works? That’s step 0 of the gospel, you know. Then find one also that tells you – overtly says it from time to time – that salvation comes certainly but only to whoever calls on the name of Master Jesus, due to believing His death is effective to save all who do call on His name in faith. Step 2 isn’t even about salvation anymore, because it’s wrapped up in Step 1. Step 2 says that we get *righteousness* by believing the Resurrection of Master Jesus Christ. Start with a church that knows to tell you *that* (but only if you do confess Master Jesus in these beliefs, please). Their demeaners will make sense to you, and you will be able to have real relationship based on truth in all the corners of existence if you first separate yourself to Christ’s actual Church.

          I have a lot of hope that this can help Christians (and *you* *are* welcome :^D).

      • William on July 3, 2020 at 2:29 am

        Jeremy, after that rude response to Fred, perhaps you should start working on being the best Christian the world has ever seen before you tell others to do so. Or am I asking too much for you to actually lead by example?

        • Jeremy Bickel on July 3, 2020 at 6:29 am

          I’m looking into it, William.

          • William on July 12, 2020 at 12:18 pm

            While you look into it, do us a favor and spare us from your pompous, self-absorbed malarkey.



        • Jeremy Bickel on July 12, 2020 at 12:36 pm

          Can you be more specific? I’m willing to change, but I have to know what to change into. If you give me specific things you have seen that I have done wrong according to the Scriptures, then I desire Master Jesus to *fOrCE* me to change. Perhaps you can help by pointing out my actual error. He will temper me well; I know it; especially as I apply what I know from His Scriptures.

    • Ancient Dave on November 30, 2019 at 3:34 pm

      I am so sorry for your hurt. I have been hurt by the church too. However, I am praying for you. I hated the church so much that there came a time I thought of hurting all them…I was going to kill those in my own church. I was bitter and mad at my church. I was treated like a loser and outsider in my own youth group. I was mad and angry. I just had to go to church because of parents and had no choice, end of the story. I have so many examples of leaders I that I trusted let me down and many others. I got into a dark place, with thoughts of taking matters into my own hands. However, something happened. I realized I had hurt people too and I was no better. I cried out to God to save me and He did. He wrapped me into His arms and worked on my heart…it was a slow pace but He changed me and healed me. In spite of all the pain I have experienced in the church, I am learning to love them anyway because I have been like them too and I am one of them. I am so sorry you are done with the church but if you are, I just want you to know that God never was done with me and I struggle seeing why He is done with you or even His screwed up church. Let me know how I can pray for you.

      • Fred on December 2, 2019 at 3:01 pm

        Well, you could pray that there’s a place for me in Heaven apart from everyone else, if there is a place for me at all. God’s people don’t want me around apparently, so I don’t want to be around them either. I don’t go where I’m not wanted.

        Far be it for me to be someone’s eyesore.

        • Dan on December 2, 2019 at 7:38 pm

          Hey man, I really feel you, and this article doesn’t really help address the issues that we face. I am used to a ton of theological club soda coupled with dogmatic pretentiousness in churches and I’m over it. And I find myself here on this site where they have a Twitter link after every paragraph so you can tweet their most “profound” statements. Kill me. You and I don’t need “church” we need God and fellowship. If you got a discord I’d love to talk to you.

          • Ancient Dave on December 3, 2019 at 5:51 pm

            Dan…..you know I desire and hunger for fellowship! You have no idea how much fellowship I want in the church. I desire it soo much that sometimes I get depressed and feel soo alone and sad. However, God has called to be a pastor and I must have sheep to even shepherd in the first place. So no, I am not giving up on God’s people. You know why? Because God never gave up on me when I was the worse example of what a Christian should be, and shame on us to give up on God’s people and not choose love. We do not need to give up on God’s people….we need to call them back to sound teachings handed down from Jesus, we need to call them back to what the Bible says instead of man says, we need to cry for them and call them back to repentance and turning from their evil ways. However, I cannot do that alone. I need other Christians to do what God needs me to do, and when we give up on God’s people….then you might as well give up on me and leave alone in my little world where so many people have given up on me and left me all by myself. :*(



        • Ancient Dave on December 3, 2019 at 5:41 pm

          I am praying for you to find healing in your heart.

          • Dan on December 4, 2019 at 11:43 am

            Your whole comment just seems so detached from the actual purpose of church. Like really? You take someone’s problem and turn the conversation to being about you? I wasn’t even talking to you. I should go to church so you can shepherd me and if not I’m giving up on God’s people? That’s pretty presumptuous, oh what a pity it is that you just have so much spiritual water in your life and so many good ideas but nobody is around to hear them because they are walking away from you, God’s tool of holy shepherding. I don’t think the completion or execution of the will of God is going to defer in your life based on whether or not people are choosing to not go to your church. I think that God’s will will come to fruition in your life regardless of how much other people go to your church or any church, and let’s not forget that God works in mysterious and sublime ways and it may actually be God’s will that so many are detaching themselves from the contemporary Christian church and attaching themselves to bible study or fellowship without a pundit. Maybe it should be the “shepherds” of these churches looking inwardly to identify if they are actually serving spiritual food or if they’re just jabbering about half truths to make themselves more important seeming rather than humble. I’m just saying, when one person of a certain demographic moves away from a product, it’s their problem. When hundreds or thousands move away from a product they used to use and like, then you gotta start looking at the company.

            “If your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it
            out and throw it away from you.”

            Have you even stopped to consider that the church may be the eye in which causes one to stumble?



          • Ancient Dave on December 4, 2019 at 6:12 pm

            Dan….that is so unfair the way you have to responded to me like that.

            For 1) it is not my intention to make this all about myself. But this is a personal topic for me and important to me. So yes there is a personal piece for me just as it would be for anyone in the church. You accused me of being selfish just because I am being transparent. Can’t we be honest with each other?

            2) You don’t know me, you don’t know what I actually believe, you just assume to know me and thus condemn me. Label me with all other Christians or believers. You assumed and judged me like you know my heart and get me. But you don’t know me. Only God does and you have no right to set yourself up as God on the judgement seat. I’m not talking about accountability, this ain’t accountability this is pure condemnation and very unfair and unloving in the way you chose to respond.

            3) I want to make my self clear. I don’t care if you go to my or even church. It is NOT about going to church but it is about being the church. But again you have no idea what I believe, and you just judge me like I do. I meet with two guys, we read the Bible together, we fellowship at restaurants and places we eat. I still call that church by the way. Not going to my church or any church is giving up on God’s people. Giving up God’s people is refusing to hang out or meet any other believer rather that is at a coffee shop, a mall, or whatever. I don’t care where you meet and I will shepherd you regardless if it is at a house or whatever.

            4) I comment like I do because this should be a safe discussion to deal with real and hard issues facing this topic. But instead, like any internet comment section it becomes a place of judgement and condemnation. I forgive you guys by the way.



          • Dan on December 4, 2019 at 7:44 pm

            Okay man, listen. I am and was angry with you. Maybe I was more angry than I needed to be, because I understand the both of us are just two idiots on a keyboard making statements with flawed knowledge. And please trust me that I mean this as gently as possible that I don’t especially care if you or anyone finds anything unfair. Life’s not fair and that’s good because if it was we’d all be damned. What irritates me about what you said, is that I was not talking to you. You have written all over this post and made you points abundantly clear and you chose to butt into a conversation where I was reaching out to try and talk to someone. You seem to not have proofread your post or you are completely ignorant to how it may come across to a reader who is already extremely disenfranchised with the contemporary western christian religion. I really really encourage you to reread what I said and what other people have said to check to see if it may actually apply to you. You come across as insanely pretentious and downright emotionally manipulative. Generally people that identify these things take exception to them. I left the church because I was having to fight it to teach children what the bible actually says. I turned my back on “the church” to turn toward being theologically fed and to be part of fellowship. I don’t care if I turn my back on you if you are not walking with me to actually support my walk with Christ. I’m sure you can sense some anger and resentment from me. That’s good. I don’t need you to say you forgive me. That does nothing for me, mainly because I did not apologize and just saying that you forgive us (btw) just sounds passive aggressive. I’m not used to that. I’m a career infantryman and I’m generally used to people bluntly saying what they mean regardless of who may think it’s unfair, mean, or whatever. So how about this, say exactly what you want and be as honest as you want, and I’ll do the same and we’ll see where that goes? Just remember, I will state my disagreement and it won’t be as tactful as your friends.



          • Ancient Dave on December 5, 2019 at 2:56 am

            Dan…..look man I will admit I probably need to work on my internet skills and ability to communicate. I should do better in how I communicate and respond. You are welcome to believe what you want about me or anyone. You have that right.

            I am signing out.



        • Elle Bee on February 16, 2020 at 9:52 am

          Being rejected by people in church because you are a single man. I am sorry. Rejection sucks. Jesus was rejected by His own. He knows how you feel. I have been mis judged and rejected too by people in church. Rejection and mis judged and gossiped about makes me or anyone want to run and protect themselves from being hurt like that again. But Jesus didn’t run. He suffered the whole thing even into death but came back to life and is ready to receive any one who rejected Him. The Father in the story of the prodigal son was rejected. But he didn’t close himself off. Please forgive the people who were prejudice against you because you are a single man. I know it hurts but don’t give up. Jesus also said if you love those who love you what due is that? But love those who don’t love you. Go to church and draw your strength from Christ to love those blind prejudice people to Christ. I know it’s hard to be where you aren’t wanted. I have been there. I wasn’t the type of person some people wanted in there church. But through Christ I persevered and He changed me and He changed them. I still go through it sometimes. But it makes me more like Christ. Don’t you want to be more like Christ? Well, count the cost. The path of the cross is painful and often feels lonely. But you are never alone. Believe the bible not your feelings or what you see in your circumstances. Trust God is working in what you don’t see in your circumstances.

      • Robbin Meissner on December 5, 2019 at 3:49 pm

        Thank you. How wonderfull is the working of LOVE. His words through believers ministering to one another. I am encouraged. He is in you.

      • William on July 3, 2020 at 2:26 am

        Seriously Dave, you need to get professional help from a therapist or psychiatrist. For your own well-being.

        We are both victims of spiritual abuse. However, having the urge to kill everyone at your church for any reason is absolutely not acceptable and I fear what would happen if you go through that again.

    • Patricia Hampton. the pastor on December 23, 2019 at 7:40 pm

      If you lived in My town we would welcome you with open arms. Everyone is welcome and we except new people as family. Married, single, divorced, black, white. EVERYONE Welcome. My. Vernon, Illinois

  45. Linda on November 22, 2019 at 6:49 am

    To ancient dave: the reason for leaving a “church” in my case is the false teaching in all the churches. I have found one that is expounding scripture, but also preaching to the unsaved in the so called “church” meeting.

    Swap the word church for the ‘ecclesia’ (called out ones) and you have a right meaning of meeting together. When did the ecclesia meeting on a Sunday become an outreach for the unsaved.

    Then there is the problem of seeming to be in an audience looking, rather than being in fellowship with each other and the Holy Spirit leading. The clock has become important though. The thing is, I have been out of church and content, but did not see anyone (retired). No christians I know willing to meet house to house. So I went back to “church.” Maybe when persecution comes it will be different.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 2:31 pm

      You’re looking for a club structure, where everyone has to say “Jesus is Master” at the door (and “God raised Him from the dead”, as an optional courtesy). It *could* be done. Without this, though, it’s better to both get close enough with some who are not total apostates, in faith believing you are not constantly sinning (with your mature conscience) by being around those who aren’t *quite* completely apostates by everything the Bible says I have to do to establish it, and, in this culture, love and mercy slow me down in my process there – a little for normal matters and not at all for the big ones.. We still watch.

    • Ancient Dave on November 30, 2019 at 3:38 pm

      I agree with you but however if we meet, we must meet together and do life. If we cannot do that then what is the point of being the church. The problem is not where we meet together to do life but the problem is in America….we are giving up on the church aka the people. If the underground church in China is willing to still do like with each other, and not give up on meeting with each other, then what is our excuse? I am hurt, does not match my lifestyle? Really?!?!? You got to be kidding me.

    • Ancient Dave on November 30, 2019 at 3:48 pm

      Dear God, I forgive your people……your church for the hurts they have caused me. Do not hold this sin against them. I know they have hurt me but I refuse to give up on your people, as some are choosing to do. I forgive those people too, please lead them back.

  46. Michaelcla on October 11, 2019 at 12:33 am

    According to Church is a place where everyone is equal and get blessings by Jesus Christ an believes in Humanity.

    • Mikey on November 11, 2019 at 1:44 am

      An absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

      • jacqueline on November 11, 2019 at 4:46 am

        Evidence is all around you but people who are blind cannot see.

        • Tom on November 15, 2019 at 6:33 am

          Please show me the spot in the bible where going into a building and being told to stand, sit, sing, stand, sit, sing (the same songs every week and years), pray, and then pay in advance for a performance while the pastor makes a nice salary, hires family and friends into leadership and grows their business is biblical thing? How about come down to an old fashioned alter and get right or many of the other man made traditions?

          “Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet” Acts 7:48.

          • Jacqueline on November 15, 2019 at 6:39 am

            You are describing a religious organisation. That is not the Lord Jesus Christ snd His teaching.



          • Amy Porter, a learning growing struggling disciple of Christ on November 23, 2019 at 10:17 am

            I can’t show you a spot in the Bible where it says exactly your words, but I can invite you to a church that doesn’t have a paid clergy, doesn’t hire any one and offers everyone the opportunity to serve in leadership positions. A church that reaches out to the “ecclesiastical” and offers them covenants with the Lord, made at an actual alter, and at the same time calling all the “unsaved” to come learn and find salvation thru Jesus Christ. But you might have to leave behind some of your old notions and open your mind and heart to the evidence that God is not dead and has given more evidence of Himself and His Son than just a Bible that has been translated by hundreds of imperfect hands. ❤️



      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 2:34 pm

        The word “not” is usually in that statement.. Think. What you said is that just because you cannot see it, that means it is not there. That is Humanism, not Christianity.

    • Mikey on November 11, 2019 at 1:47 am

      Religion was invented when the first con man met the first sucker.

      • Jacqueline on November 11, 2019 at 4:52 am

        Religions are invented but The Lord Jesus Christ is real.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 2:35 pm

        L Ron Hubbard was sorry in the end that he went with religion..

        • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 2:35 pm

          [Reference Walter Martin on Scientology]

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 2:32 pm

      Jesus Christ does not bless humanity, but His Own Christians, even when we forget Him, because He has us in holy (special) relationship.

  47. Robert on September 5, 2019 at 8:45 am

    HI, I am unable to find anyone in my community that is willing to get up before dawn and meet daily. I am not a fool, I am sure there are a few that would but I cannot find them. Therefore, I get up and worship, study and pray on my own. My local congregation has very little interest in these things. It”s mostly fundraisers and activities, which I am not that interested in. How do I seek this biblical church experience that you recommend? I have begun praying that God would lead me to these people.

    • Autumn Moon on September 5, 2019 at 5:59 pm

      To Richard Paulson. The fact you have stepped out on your own to perduce your deeper walk with our Lord Jesus Christ doing your worship service is wonderful. I too have been shown by the Lord to step out and embrace him fully take my prayer request for others and the issues that’s coming of the world and just talk to the Lord all through the day to help me with what ever I am doing. I use to be lonely in my walk in Christianity but God showed me in his word if I only have him I have everything. I asked God to use me for his glory. Acts of kindness to others especially Seniors. Go to a nursing home and viset the people there. They are so lonely. I visit the women there you could visit the men. Take the Bible and read to them.God inspired me to sew dresses for little girls I sewed all my life and missed doing it. I do not charge for the dresses for low income families. I know you want Christian fellowship but God wants to use you to lift that lonelyness and fill it with reaching out to others. Be a big brother to kids that have no Dad there for them. Play basket ball with them. God doesn’t want you to take the light of Jesus Christ and his it under a bushel basket filled with lonelyness. Take you talents your hunger for God and share it with others. I am sure there are community needs you can get involved in. God revealed to me and said it’s not about you Autumn it’s about Jesus Christ and taking his word out to a sick and dieing world. I found a church where the preaching is the truth and I go to hear sing worship and the most of the people treat me like a ghost. But I decided those that do that was not going to still my joy. I had Jesus Christ and he looks down on me and sees my face, singing raising my hands prasieing him. And maybe one or two people speak to me but I got Jesus and the devil is not going to cause me to leave where I am growing in the truth. I quit going for a long time and let the devil beat me up with lonelyness. God opened my eyes to see the mess in the churches and the world and I went back to church full of joy leaving I know I got Jesus if I don’t have a soul to care about me. And now the doors are sung open and the devil is on the run. Richard God wants to use you to go out with your beautiful faith you have and share it. He will show you how just trust God.

      • Autumn Moon on September 6, 2019 at 1:03 am

        You will not find a perfect church.you have to ask yourself am I going to worship the Lord or to be received by the people that go their, to fit in. Jesus faced all kinds reactions after rejection, and didn’t fit in anywhere but close to only a very few. He didn’t come to fit in but to be lifted up to draw all into him. He didn’t come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. You can’t make people do what they say they believe in but don’t live it. I use to stay away from these people but I see them an opportunity to go and speak to them now saying things like good to see you today, and those that avoid me a little shunning, I acknowledge them when I work my way to cross their paths with words of kindness received or not. I go to church worship the Lord. I don’t get involved in the massive little events, fundraisers, nor the clicks that is in all Church’s, I do not join membership to any church I belong to Jesus Christ first and foremost and go where he sends me. Have I had to tollerate indiffrence, heartbreak, diliberate actions, yes. Count the cost to truly follow Christ. Sometimes mother’s would let me measure their little girl for a dress and they go on my list. When I finished her 2dresses and call to let them know some want return my call or tell me they don’t want them or give me a wrong number. This has happened once and a while and I am sad because here is a little girl looking forward to her dress at no charge. I find someone to give them to but I think of the little girl that the mother wouldn’t let me give it to her because the mother rejected me and just ran a game on me. I tell them i it’s the love of Jesus Christ. It still gave me an opportunity to at least witness about Jesus. God sees all things. But many received the dresses we hold hands and I pray for them and visit them now and then. They put on their dresses and dance around. I pray for those that I couldn’t reach most of all. Jesus was rejected a lot as those that truly follow him. But worth the journey . The doors are opening. Just don’t give up, don’t quit. Keep the faith.

      • Jacqueline on November 11, 2019 at 5:09 am

        “If I only have Him I have everything.” (Autumn Moon).

        I now know this after years battling with no church fellowship. I eventually settled down after taking hold of the fact that my life is in His hands. Our Lord recently led me to a congregation who stick to the truth and go through scripture verse by verse and book by book. Through seeking God by prayer elders are open to correction. It is an open brethren fellowship with humble elders leading.

    • Autumn Moon on September 8, 2019 at 8:23 am

      I am guilty of getting tired of what I was seeing going on in the church’s and stopped going then went back then stopped and couldn’t wrap myself around what was I looking for and bouncing from here to there. A big turn around tool place one day as I was not praying but (ranting) out loud to God about the reason why I didn’t want to go to church and the things I encountered and saw was not what I read in the Bible. Lets back up just a minute. When I was growing up we didn’t go to church but we had a man to come to the school and have a bible study in the class which is unheard of in today’s time. This helped me to know that God loved me, beyond the chaos going on in my family which was just hell. I talked to God all the time, and picked flowers and laid them on big rocks for Him. When I left home and was on my own I went to church I played the auto harp sang and went many places. Then my attention got off of my purpose and on to what was going on that was not right in the church. Big mistake. Isn’t that just like the devil to feed you just enough thoughts to cause you to doubt. Just like he did Eve in the garden. Not being a fully mature Christian I took the bait and then came the big down fall. I thought I could just do it on my own that I didn’t need church I had the Bible as my guide. Instead of keeping my eyes on the point man Jesus Christ I let the little things wrong going on around me in the church cloud my judgement. Solomon 2: 15 Take us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes. That’s the way the devil works. Just enough to start doubt. So when I thought I knew it all and stopped going to church I was on my own and it was not long before little by little I fell spiritually flat on my little know it all face. Mark 4: 19 And the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches and the lust of other things entering in choke the word and it becometh unfruitful. There”s me and still thinking I knew it all, the devil had me right in the palm of his hand. As I found out the devil does not care who you are, he is only interested in the percentages. Now going back to my ranting. For troughs that say they are true believers that believe that God will tell you things this is what happened. My ranting stopped when these words came to me clear as a bell. ” You are the biggest hypocrite of them all. You took your eyes off of me and became consumed with the problems instead of being the solution. How do you know what’s in the heart of man or who I choose to do my will when I want on my time? How do you know these you persecute that go to church that at some given moment they may hear My Word preached that might wake them up and pierce their heart and bring them to repentance? You don’t know what they are struggling with, there battles, a heart that’s broken that’s not seen on the out side or hear their their prayers in the dark of the night ? I am the potter. Isaiah 45:9 Woe unto Him who strives with Him who formed him,a pot among earthen pots! Does the clay say to him who forms it, What are you making? or Your work has no handles? Look at what you have become, you that think you know it all. If you don’t like what you see in the church don’t do it, you’re there to learn also what not to do in church and in the world. What do you miss from going to Church?”( I started to cry, I could not dispute what was said to me. It was my wake up call.) He said again” If you will not be used to be a part of the solution then the devil will use you to add to the problem in the world and in Church.” ( my eyes was opened to what I allowed to happen and I am going to church, and the one I go to preaches the Word of God and about problems and changes that need to be made with in ourselves. I go to worship the Lord, not to get side tracked into any thing that’s politics. The Pastor can not make everybody be and do what they should as true believers nor can anyone else it’s not mine or anyone else’s job and blaming the Church for the reason for not going because of some of the peoples attitudes, or what any one thinks of the people in you own mind is not any ones job. We are there to worship God and to let God use us as (the true believers we say we are) to reach out to a sick and dying world and be part of God’s plan of the solution, to repent of sins, receive Jesus Christ , clean up their lives and show a lost world the Bible is God’s Word has stood the anvils of time that speaks God’s will for mankind , that clearly says what God excepts and what pleases Him and He despises and will not accept, instead of letting the devil worm his thoughts and lies into our minds until we become more of the problem as that’s his goal and purpose. Now the devil greatest triumph to divide the church, has been going on for a long time and growing. God loved me so much He saw my potential and was using me but I let my guard down and started attacking the church the devils playground. Those that criticize the churches and try to do it on your own starting little groups that want to gather together with the same attitude, to read the Bible, pray these groups are still forming something organized for those that label churches organized religion. God showed me in His word this was going to happen the seed of doubt to destroy what God gave us that people have fought and gave their lives to preserve. The devils lie intent first to divide the church labeling it and organized religion and then saying it’s not biblical, then saying the Bible has been rewritten so many times you can’t believe any of it, one lie after another. But people are still getting saved and returning to church. Glory to God, God sees all things and as broken and pathetic as we are as were the disciples that Jesus worked with, God will use us, clean us up, for His will on earth as it is in heaven. I live to please God and if I don’t He lets me know. Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked : for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

      • Richard Paulson on September 25, 2019 at 3:21 am

        Hello Autumn Moon.

        Thank you for your heart to reach out. I endeavour to do what I can in reaching out to others. God however has to be the one to open doors and change circumstances. God has to be the one to lead. I am not giving up. But what you call the church is not the church unless it is willing to fellowship in the truth. Just attending a man made building is not going to church. If I am not finding the fellowship, then it is because people are not really Christian, but just religious. Many years ago I was under religious bondage for listening to the false ministers and churches false teaching. I am no longer under that religious bondage because I found the truth of the gospel for myself. Someone here falsely accused me of have a religious spirit, which I do not have. It is in fact that I have been freed from religious bondage and I see the truth clearly, that makes me a target of false accusations. Remember even Noah could not find anyone in the world that was following God. We are living in days like that.

      • Richard Paulson on October 7, 2019 at 8:13 pm

        Hello Autumn Moon,

        Recently God showed me that for me personally, it is his will for me to go to these organized churches where I can. I missed it last year because I altogether stopped going. But I have started going again. It isn’t because I join any of them. But God showed me that this is God’s will for me personally. So I cannot fulfill the will of God for my life if I avoid these places. It is indeed a mission field. God humbles himself also to come alongside his people for their good. God has shown me that even though the truth is not preached properly and even though they don’t do things God’s way, and even though no one has fellowship with me, I am still to go. Otherwise I will not be doing the will of God. As soon as I saw this I went to one such church the next day. I remembered the things God showed me in the past and realized how I missed it in this respect. I actually saw no point in going, but I didn’t realize the importance of my going, thinking I had to only wait for some “open door”. I am sure that I won’t make that mistake again. I believe there will be open doors for me to work. But my just being there is still bringing God with me. Even just my being there is doing the will of God.

        If you read this it would be nice to hear from you again. God bless.

      • Jacqueline on November 5, 2019 at 8:23 am

        Autumn Moon, i am one of those going from church to church trying to find one that teaches scripture and is not all messed up.

        Your testimony hit me so hard I had to walk away from reading it for a few minutes. It is so much like me.
        I was so convicted during the middle of it I literally had to distract myself to absorb who I have been being. Pretty near all of the churches I have spent time in have said they were sorry I was leaving. One said, don’t go we need you, and I went anyway.

        Dear sister I am so saddened that I too have been part of the problem and have walked away from God using me and yes, me also learning. I will mention that the scriptures warn us to ‘mark and avoid false teachers’ so this is why I left all the churches. I have now found one that teaches scripture verse by verse, book by book, and wants to be open to correction by the Lord. This church has been shrinking, it is mainly older people and it is not in my neighbourhood, so fellowship is not there. I thank you for relaying your testimony. Love in Christ. Jacqueline.

    • Tammy on September 15, 2019 at 11:33 pm

      You are right, Carey. The people are the church. God is wanting to bring us back to assembling just like the people did in the Book of Acts. (Acts 1:14) You need that no one should teach you. The Holy Spirit is your teacher. (1John 2:27) We don’t need to lift up a preacher of Pastor and follow him. We follow Jesus only. We don’t need to give them money to buy airplanes, a new 2nd car for the wife, a bigger house, and live a high life while we are laboring to make ends meet. We can help the poor on the streets, the stranger, the fatherless, the widows, the orphans, (Deuteronomy 24:19). You can look for House Churches or Home Churches in your area. They are also called “Organic Churches. I have been attending an assembly for a year now. We are learning the true Word of God. We are learning the Seven Feasts of the Bible and celebrating them. We are learning how important the 4th Commandment is: Honor the Sabbath. You will find one in your community. I will pray for you.

    • Jacqueline on November 5, 2019 at 7:41 am

      Robert, I totally relate to what you say. It is my belief that unless persecution comes we will never find believers who want to truly worship God in Spirit and truth.

    • Amy Porter, a learning growing struggling disciple of Christ on November 23, 2019 at 10:26 am

      Good morning! 😊 I wake up and drive my children to their early morning seminary class each day before they head to school. The other families in my ward and church do the same. The teacher holds the “class” in their own home and is “called to serve” in this capacity. Many different members are asked to volunteer their time to do this. Not paid clergy, not religious students, just normal ordinary people with ordinary homes and ordinary jobs. They study together helping each to participate. Still, it is up to every individual to gain and strengthen their own testimony of our savior Jesus Christ, and as such, most of our members take their own personal time to dedicate to their own study and worship each day, just as you do. 😊

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 2:42 pm

      Robert, that’s what you should do, until you find some. If not, go to all the churches again and mark out in your own mind just what is acceptable in the practical climate, not transgressing God in your heart. By faith, be able to huddle together with some evil around, and be bravely Christ’s light there, too. The World is a cinch compared with real, living beings behaving badly.. So, love them! Praise Jesus. And you’ll start seeing them around. You’re welcome to read my site, but you need people around you, not relying on the society’s allowances of Internet and ..electricity. So, lighten up in Christ’s hilarious, wondrous, multilayered reality, not fearing the images from the world that look close to good things you’re seeing from God, and ..continue in Christ, waiting well, brother. Sing Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs in your heart making melody to JHWH and His Son YHSHWH! And ignore forms over meaning.

    • Dora on December 29, 2019 at 11:39 pm

      Hi Robert
      My name is Dora and I was feeling like you. Try C3 Church, they have connect group, prayers group many that you can choose from. I hope is help, the church it will help you to develop knowledge of the Gospel and engage with others. However, the
      relationship within you and God is personal and is all up to you.
      I hope this helped you
      God bless you
      Dora

  48. JGHEMLOCKGREENWOODTREE on August 27, 2019 at 9:45 am

    The true church of God doesn’t belong to any organized religion. They most certainly don’t belong to any of the zillion different denominations, since there is only ONE body and ONE head, which is Christ Jesus. The members of the true church of Philadelphia are scattered and they are not sitting in any building called ‘Church,’ especially those churches that allows pagan worship inside God’s house–not a chance!

    The churches of today are not anything but a corporate money making machine. They invest money in big screen televisions, coffee, beer and snack vendors, selling their CD’s in their overpriced book shops and stores. As they fill their pockets and their seats of their church, the communities around them are poor, fatherless, homeless, physically ill, drug and alcohol addicted and dying. The pastors live in million dollar homes, with another beach house for recreation, private airplanes etc… while their community is wasting away. It’s a joke to even see the hundreds of different churches whose beliefs are all different, teaching utter lies, and they compete with each other for cold hard cash, instead of working together as one body to help their communities. Jesus would never approve and He doesn’t. If He was here today, he would have 98% of these building’s tables flipped over, and he’d a whipped the majority of these fake pastors running the dog and pony show. Wait till they see what is coming to them if they don’t change.

    The Kingdom of God is within us, and he taught LOVE. He warned us that in the ‘ End-Times’ that the majority of churches would be despicable, and they really are. None of them are the Church of Philadelphia–NOT a chance! I will never feel guilty for not going into a church that is set up for destruction. Yeah! Destruction! Who dares to call the Most High God a house of worship and then drags in pagan Xmas trees, blood ritual sacrifices of the pagan god Ishtar, Pan, Horus, The Babylonian gods, Tamarez, Saturnalia and literally encourages God’s people to perform abomination after abomination against Him? It’s quite sickening to watch. We even have the Catholics watching the pope putting viles of blood and human bone of humans on god’s alters, and telling people he can command Jesus off His mercy seat. That ain’t Jesus–that’s the Devil. The mesmerized sheep don’t bat an eye.

    This article is written by someone who doesn’t really know the Most High God. If they did, they surely wouldn’t be promoting what The Great I Am Himself is going to smash down in His righteous anger! They are against Him and not for Him. They should never make anyone feel guilty for not desiring to enter into a building that will be no more in the near future. I wouldn’t be caught dead in any of these garbage places full of statues, pagan worship, and deception. The key word here is ‘dead.’ I am sure there must be a few PURE sanctified and purified houses of God out there… I sure hope so. After traveling throughout the United States… Haven’t seen one yet.

    We are told to worship Him in spirit and in truth. I would hardly say that any of the churches that I have seen are worshiping Elohim in spirit and in truth. Thanks but no thanks. Free Agents of the Most High are out there, but they will be the ones to rise up after the judgements pour down upon the earth. The fake pastors of these fake churches won’t be found on earth any longer. Their churches will be whisked away in the whirlwind. Anybody following them, supporting them, bowing to them and their pagan idolatry won’t be around either. The Great I Am is a loving, long suffering God, but He is going to allow the Devil to claim what is his very soon. The true people of God will see with their eyes the punishment of the wicked. but it will not come near them. Judgement begins in the House of the Lord….so it will begin there and rightfully so. God is not just love but a God of JUSTICE, JUDGEMENT AND WRATH. These buildings will feel the wrath when the whirlwinds come!

    When people really begin to believe in God and begin to have a great fear of God, they will no longer enter into these pagan places. They themselves will know what is going to happen if they dare participate in idolatry, while serving other gods. Nobody can sit at the table with Jesus and participate in the deeds of darkness with demons! The Devil is in most of these churches! Don’t be shocked if you get caught in the judgment because of it. These churches down here are deadly to a person’s spirit! Wake up people! God is real and He ain’t playing, especially with those who slap the name of Elohim on a house that honors Satan.

    I pray that people wake up and see what they are actually doing before it’s too late. God takes these things very serious…. even if the majority of church members and wolf pastors don’t. Expect the judgements to begin shortly….You can’t say that you weren’t warned. It’s definitely the end-times! Don’t let the Devil dupe you!

    • Autumn Moon on September 3, 2019 at 1:07 pm

      Thank you. I see this. So e are to take God s word out to a sick and dieing world. That’s my mission. But what I am experiencing people are so turned off because their experiences in church. They just walk away. It’s so sad. God help us to continue trying to reach.them.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:03 pm

        That’s it, Autumn Moon – change yourself, prayerfully and with faith, and the world will see, wonder, be drawn ..to He Who Is our Life.

    • Tammy on September 16, 2019 at 12:27 am

      JGHEMLOCKGREENWOODTREE: YOU ARE SO RIGHT! THANK YOU FOR YOUR BOLDNESS IN POSTING THIS! I LEFT THE “CHURCH’ BECAUSE OF THE CELEBRATION IN THE CHURCH ON HALLOWEEN. THEY WERE CALLING IT “HARVEST FESTIVAL”, BUT THE PASTOR ALLOWED THEM TO DRESS IN HALLOWEEN COSTUMES, WHATEVER THEY WANTED. ONE OF THE YOUNG MEN DRESSED AS A WOMAN. I COULD FEEL THE SPIRIT OF CONFUSION ENTER THE CHURCH BUILDING. THEY TOLD THE PEOPLE TO DRESS HOWEVER THEY WANTED TO, JUST DON’T BRING GUNS!!!! THEY GAVE OUT STARBUCK’S GIFT CARDS TO ALL THE NEW MEMBERS. I MENTIONED TO THEM THAT STARBUCKS LOGO WAS REPRESENTING THE MERMAID “SIREN”, WHO LURED SAILORS TO THEIR DEATH BY PUTTING LUST IN THEIR HEARTS. THEY MENTIONED THAT THEY WOULD LOOK INTO IT, BUT JUST IGNORED IT. THEY LIFTED UP BOOKS AND TEACHINGS BY RICK WARREN AND PRAISED BOOKS THAT HAD CATHOLIC INUENDOS. I BROUGHT THIS TO THEIR ATTENTION, BUT WAS ONLY IGNORED. IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO LEAVE THE “CHURCH” BECAUSE I HAD BUILT UP A GOOD REPUTATION. EVERYONE KNEW MY NAME. I WAS A GREETER. I WAS A MEMBER OF THE WOMEN’S PRAYER GROUP, A LEADER IN SPECIAL TEACHING CLASSES THEY HAD, ALL LEADING ME TO PRIDE IN MY ACCOMPLISHMENTS. FINALLY, THE LORD SPOKE TO MY HEART TO GET OUT. HE WANTED TO SEPARATE ME FROM THIS. THE PEOPLE FROM THE CHURCH THOUGHT THAT I WAS CRAZY. THEY COULDN’T UNDERSTAND WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO ME. I NOW ATTEND A WEEKLY SHABBAT SERVICE WITH FELLOW BELIEVERS IN CHRIST. WE CELEBRATE THE SEVEN BIBLE FEASTS. WE HONOR ALL THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, ESPECIALLY “HONOR THE SABBATH”.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:06 pm

        That’s an encouraging move, Tammy. I’m sure your new fellow Christians are glad whenever another Christian joins them — the world sure is wicked.. Anyhow, just make sure they preach all of Christ! Shalom.

    • Richard Paulson on September 25, 2019 at 6:10 am

      JGHEMLOCKGREENWOODTREE, You made very good comments, most of which I appreciate, however, just a couple of things I wanted to mention. I believe in the Authorized Bible (King James), and I believe it would please the Lord for you to know that all of its words are perfectly true. (I am not saying that you may not already see it as the perfect translation.) However, the word Elohim is not found therein. God is pleased for us to exalt the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and we need not look to any other said names for the true God other than what is in the Scripture. If God wanted us to use the name “Elohim”, it would appear in the King James Bible for us. Also, what do you think if someone visits one of these organized churches in the way of seeking fellowship or to reach out to others but not to join with organizations or support them?Because there may be lost sheep that are there. Also I have known in times past God’s presence with others in such places, although the religious leaders are holding them in bondage. Do you think a person could visit them without participating in the evil? Or do you think it is too dangerous to make that attempt?

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:10 pm

        I think it’s far too dangerous, Richard Paulson, for someone who has said what you have said about the KJV to go that many steps away from your own burden. Work out what you have already in your own conscience first ..completely. Then you will have a sort of clarity. Then you will go in all the nooks and crannies that God knows He has for you! It’s fun to *really* trust Him!

        • Richard Paulson on June 24, 2020 at 1:13 pm

          Jeremy, I do have things clear to me, and I have a good conscience. God has shown me to go until I get thrown out or rejected or treated with such dishonour that shows that they are rejecting God or dishonouring God. God had me going to 3 places not long ago until I was rejected or dishonoured or not welcomed anymore in those places. This is typical. It’s not that I am afraid of any danger to myself from these said or so-called “Christian” churches. Currently, I am not going anywhere, but not because I simply decided to leave, but because there is no place for me to go at present, yet again. It is because I am thrown out or rejected or dishonoured. It’s only when God says, “don’t go”, that I don’t go. This is what I have learned is God’s way.

      • Heidi Jipson on August 17, 2020 at 9:34 pm

        With respect, the Bible was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. No, the word Elohim is not in the English Bible, but it IS a Hebrew name for our Father in Heaven. It is not the name of another god, but the name of the one true God.

  49. Donte on August 13, 2019 at 9:53 am

    Using the New Testament (specifically the writings of Paul) as the prime reason we should go to church is circular logic. It’s based on an assumption that the New Testament is 100%, guaranteed God’s words. I have come to a point in my life where I am questioning that. I used to make fun of red-letter Christians. Now I know I’m one of them. Whatever Jesus said is good enough for me. Anyone who says the words of Jesus isn’t enough should probably repeat that to themselves slowly. Jesus is God, and if the only thing I do is live life according to his message, that is sufficient for me. Jesus never said, “gather together once or twice a week to fellowship and study scripture.” Jesus kept it simple: Love God, love one another. Why do we complicated that with “Yeah that, but you gotta go to church too.” Churches need us to go to keep the lights on and the pastor’s mortgage paid. That may seem overly simplistic, but if they really followed Paul’s message, they would pay attention to how he worked wherever he went to take care of his needs and the needs of those traveling with him. Pastors today expect to be paid a living salary to be in ministry. That’s not Biblical, even by their own New Testament standards. Let them work full-time jobs, take nothing more than an honorarium from the fellowship they serve, and then I’ll consider going back. But that won’t happen. The church mortgage, the pastor and assistant pastors’ salaries, the secretary’s pay – all of it requires butts in seats; so the “it’s Biblical to go to church” rings very hollow. The original believers gathered in each other’s houses and poured into one another through relationships founded on LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER. Let’s get back to that.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:16 pm

      Interpreting Paul – that righteous Apostle to the Gentiles – and interpreting Peter is not as big a deal as knowing that Jesus’ earthly ministry was TO JEWS under THE LAW. Understand, dear one; accept with belief, even though your flesh rebels! Accept it!! You’ve got people so fiercely holding onto the concept the *some* English translation is *perfect*, which is wrong by easy proof in God’s actual Universe, but they know it’s something to hold on to for a reason, which is that, certainly in the more general sense, He has not allowed us to be lied to in His name. *That’s* a matter of honorable trust in Him – not in Cephas or Teutullian or Jerome or Apollos or Paul — or of Jesus during His earthly ministry. The shock comes from preprogramming more than honest calculation now. ..doesn’t it?

  50. alex on July 19, 2019 at 11:22 pm

    From someone living outside the USA I see many of these comments as a reflection of the shallowness many in the world see embedded in your culture that has infected all layers of “church”
    Leaders who want total control. Followers who want it their way and all their needs met. Why waste all this hate energy debating, justifying, criticizing. Maybe your divisive culture is the real problem

  51. LD on July 19, 2019 at 7:52 pm

    Yes, definitely! Let’s get rid of most of what is falsely called “The New Testament” that you say replaces the teaching of JESUS CHRIST!! That’s the problem right there. “Church people” have apostatized from the teaching of Jesus Christ to follow this “Paul” character: who generated a whole different religion of institutionalism, male domination and female subjugation, State worship, authority and submission… a whole religious system that is completely opposite EVERYTHING Jesus Christ taught.

    Jesus taught about love and equality. Jesus taught that everything was about being born-again; loving God with all our hearts, minds, souls, and strengths; and loving others as ourselves. Jesus didn’t preach the hate and the sexism that Paul preached – not the statism – not the institutionalism – no nothing that Paul preached did Jesus Christ teach and preach.

    So, who is the Messiah? Well, Jesus is the Messiah if you are truly saved.

    But, if you want another religion of dead empty institutionalism of man worship and the degradation of women: Paul is your Messiah. You don’t even have to be born again to follow Paul!! Because Paul was not born again himself either in his stories. His wild over the top exaggerations about how many times he was whipped and shipwrecked and all that: in the gnostic books of Luke/Acts and “epistles of Paul”.

    And, just “who is” this “Paul”? A character made up by Marcion: a rapist and Luciferian who generated “The Antithesis” of the “epistles of Paul” and “Luke/Acts” telling us that “Paul” was the only true apostle because Paul preached a Jesus who was actually Lucifer.

    No, I am just “not into” the Luciferian gnostic false epistles of “Paul”. Why would I be?

    The teachings of Jesus mean everything to me.

    • Tom (from Germany) on July 30, 2019 at 6:00 am

      I can hardly believe it that there are Christians in the U.S. who claim that Paul’s letters to the Churches are not scripture. At this point I’m stepping out of the discussion. It is foundation and base of all further discussion that the Bible as we know it is Holy Scripture and inspired by the Holy Spirit Himself. There is definitely no such thing as “political correctness” as we know it today in the Bible. The Bible is call to repentance and turning around from all the sinful ways by surrendering to Jesus Christ and following Him alone.

    • Spiritual Hammer on August 27, 2019 at 9:33 am

      Finally someone who gets it! Marcion was the very first “Christian” to start compiling epistles and only one gospel into a canon of Scripture for Christians to read and live by. Absolutely true. Otherwise we would have not had a New Testament. Now we know why Paul and Christ disagree so much in the writings, and Paul seems to know very little about Jesus’ actual life in his letters. Excellent post!

    • Asher on November 18, 2019 at 3:31 pm

      LD, the teachings of Jesus mean nothing to you. If they did, then you would not subtract from the words of the Bible according your finite understanding and therefore store up wrath for yourself. You rantings about Paul mean nothing. Paul’s and Jesus’s teachings do not conflict nor do Paul’s James’s (Jesus’s brother’s) teachings conflict. But there is conflict in you– whether you’re consciously attempting to deceive the people of God or you are ‘taken with a spirit’ and are under the delusion of that spirit– if you think there is conflict between any two books, chapters, or verses in the Bible. You don’t have the Holy Spirit; you’ve been too easily deceived. May God have mercy on you, to turn you from pride and open your eyes– like He did Nebuchadnezzar– to recognize that God is the Most High and that His wisdom to organize and lead the writing and putting together of the Bible is far above your ability to dictate or choose what is right and what is wrong.

      By your own words, I can perceive that you are not even in the preschool of the Spirit yet. You have not been led into the classroom. You are still snuggled against your mother’s bosom and have never heard any ‘teachings’; yet, “the teachings of Jesus mean everything” to you. Repent. When you put your wisdom above God’s and start challenging words that are not in ‘red letters’ (when even words in red letters seems to contradict each other), then you are following ‘another jesus’. You have been deceived. Repent. Turn away from complex religion and turn to God’s simple religion, “pure and undefiled before God”, in that you stick to what you clearly understand (e.g. eat, work, treat others with the same regard you have for yourself, etc.) and let God reveal to you what you are not clear about. God help you and those who are being pulled into the anti-Paul error.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:23 pm

      Paul made such a work for Christ, his enemies on the human plane are *still* reeling from greater-granddad’s defeats at that honest man’s words. Paul was tested for truth by his own peers at the time – you just don’t like what Christ has revealed through not Muhammad, not Joseph Jr., but through God’s people, not the Pope, but God’s people, even today. There is ONE SPIRIT in Christianity THROUGH TIME. You’re welcome. No need to send me $40, even as a tiny token of the value you put on this most excellent answer to your off-the-top exaggeration. Just look at Jesus – not at Paul – but don’t deny Jesus’ THINGS just because you know Paul said them in the Bible God did not lie to us with. It’s a matter of honorable faith in what God is doing with YOU as with us all.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:25 pm

        Only confess Master Jesus verbally and believe heartily that God resurrected Him. Be saved, and start looking up, waiting (which is all we’re doing now, anyhow). Love more than *you* can, else you have not measured up to the law Christ preached in the 4 gospels (until the ends of each, of course, when the actions by Christ referenced in Paul’s gospel happened).

  52. PJ on May 21, 2019 at 12:50 am

    My problem is not with the Church. I am quite aware that the Church and gathering is biblical. My problem is with organized religion pretending to be the Church! My problem is organized religion trying to pass as the Body of Christ! I have experienced God in ways that I have never imagined when I walked away from organized religion. I have experienced the grace and love of God in ways that I’ve never experienced in all my church life, which is from birth. The “church” was actually blocking and preventing me from seeing Christ. There is church, with all its grand business model organization and buildings and whatever. Then there is the Body of Christ that is the genuine Church…the real called out ones, whose soul focus is on Christ. I’ll take Christ over “church” anytime!

    • Jim T. on May 21, 2019 at 9:46 am

      Well put PJ !
      It is a true blessing to read something deep and meaningful from your heart. I was beginning to tire over the debating and arguing by those who are professing to be Christians but do not realize they are ensnared in religion. As for professed atheists…they are nothing more than attention seekers. There is no need to attack – counter attack. Simply share the light of truth from your heart that the Holy Spirit has illuminated for you…as you have graciously done. Thanks again. Peace!

    • Rolf Thielen on July 1, 2019 at 3:15 am

      Amen PJ!

    • Tom (from Germany) on July 7, 2019 at 5:52 am

      The reason why I left church is the low spiritual waters from which pastors drink. Besides nowadays you must be something in order go get on. Wealth, prestige, houses, cars and expensive designer clothes are important to get acknowledged. The wealthy sit in the first row, the not so wealthy at the back, that’s exactly the opposite to what James wrote. Singers in the choir are top professionels with extraordinarily worked out voices. Everything must shine like gold. The normal man, often unemployed, can’t afford church any longer. The church today has become a place of expensively paid services. Instead of praying together thex talk together. Prayer, the center of Christianity, has been replaced almost completely by counseling and talking.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:30 pm

        Hang in there, believing our same Master and Savior Jesus The Messiah and only Natural Son of God Whom He sent to Earth in the body to die for us on the cross. Then He was buried, then He arose from death. His servants who wait for Him will do likewise, with gusto! Praise Him now and forever! And hang in there – ask Him to show you some of us, in faith that He is both able and – because you are not sinfully hating Him, you know you asked rightly – willing to do this large feat for you.. and praise Him, always.

    • Craig on July 7, 2019 at 12:02 pm

      Amen Brother and Sister
      We are all and I mean all under orders from Jesus to, “Go Ye Therefore And Teach All Nations Baptizing Them In The Name Of The Father, Son And Holy Spirit”!
      Since leaving organized religion I have shared Gods word and baptized folks who would never set foot in a church. Organized religion wants to elevate church leadership to an exalted position!
      I have news for all: Christ’s message is simple and does not take a higher education to pass along to folks! God made it simple!
      And easy for all to understand!
      Jesus loves you and Jesus loves me with all our flaws!

    • Asher on November 18, 2019 at 3:57 pm

      PJ, well said. christians today have done far more to hinder me from a relationship with God than any atheist, satanist, or crazy person could ever have achieved. 99% of the time when I talk to a christian, the good and godly things in me drain out or get sucked out: faith, hope, love, peace, joy, clarity of vision, etc. What Jesus said to the ministers of His day (teachers of the Law, Pharisees) is true of today’s ministers and christians: “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to” (Matthew 23:13). christians who do not have and do not want a relationship with God (‘entering the Kingdom’) will always hinder anyone else who wants that relationship. It’s amazing to see through continual experience that Jesus’s words and ALL the words in the Bible are 100% true.

      People want you to ‘go to church’. If they had been taught by the Holy Spirit and by genuine shepherds of God, they would have understood that when the Bible says to ‘go to church’, it is talking to a specific group of people and not to everyone who darkens the doorway of a religious building. The Bible is talking to genuine believers when it commands them to gather together. Here is the passage in its entirety which sheds light on the fact that this is not what church buildings on the weekends are observing:

      “Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching” (Hebrews 10:22-25).

      People who attend church buildings surely aren’t thinking of sanctification and “hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience”. They aren’t holding fast to any genuine faith. And for sure they are not considering (thinking of) one another at all. Only genuine believers observe the faith (“hearts sprinkled”), remain faithful (“hold fast the confession”), love the brethren in practice (“consider one another”), honor every member and not just some (“the assembling of ourselves together”). “The manner of some” who don’t assemble is not talking about those who don’t go to a church building but about those who don’t assemble in genuine fellowship. That Hebrews passage is talking only talking to genuine believers and about genuine fellowship. It is not addressing everyone who has ‘joined a religion’ and observes religions get-togethers.

      I became a christian in 1986 at an altar at the age of 7. I became a believer in 1998 on an Amtrak train when God suddenly showed up at the age of 18. ‘Church’ from 1998 suddenly looked the way it actually is: dead, dead, dead. They don’t want the Lord because you can’t have a program and have the Lord at the same time, and since churchgoers serve the clock (schedules, etc.) more than the Lord, they must have a program. Even if they truly desire the Lord, their program which they stick to (their timetable) will always push the Lord out. When Jesus first began to lead me away from ‘church’ in 2000, I began to have an actual relationship with Him– to take His yoke upon me and learn of Him, to live and breathe and gain insight and spiritual nutrition. In the past, Jesus was not found in Jerusalem, the religious capital of the world, but among the common people. Likewise today, He is not found in churches but outside of them where the humble (not the prideful who think they are saved) gather together.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:38 pm

        Sometimes, our physical neighbors *are* Christians who just don’t go to church. Praise Jesus, together with all you find, please.

  53. son on May 19, 2019 at 6:18 pm

    Here we go again, voice in the wilderness. Anybody here planning to vote for Pete Buttigieg? “God made him a homosexual,” he claims, Is that ok, then, according to God? Does anyone out there think than homosexuals CHOOSE to be homosexuals? Or, is it a genetic predisposition? Isn’t it funny how animals don’t practice homosexuality, except for the marsupial lesbian beast named the “Lickalotapus?” Tongue-in-cheek, of course. Well, the Catholic Church didn’t take too kindly to Martin Luther, anymore than it does to Pete Buttigieg trying to make homosexuality appear to be in accordance with The Will of God. Thoughts, folks? What a mess this world has become. Maranatha, Jesus. Come soon, Lord. We need you to make straight your path..

    • son on May 19, 2019 at 6:38 pm

      From the fwiw dept. Best prayer you can make, in general.
      Sharing:
      “I know my life is in your hands, Lord. I know that I shall live in accordance with The Holy Will of God. Thank you for giving me peace with those divine words of holy inspiration in Your Holy Spirit, Jesus.”

  54. HoosierConservative on May 16, 2019 at 7:49 am

    How will these churches stand strong during end-times persecution if they can’t even handle a drop in attendance? How will they hold to their convictions in the future when they’re changing their strategy now every time the revenue drops? The more that North America becomes a post-Christian society, the more radical the church ought to look. Instead we have what amounts to a post-Christian church system. These pastors talk more about Hollywood culture and pop psychology than they talk about the Bible.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:45 pm

      Go a step further, HoosierConservative, and apply the rule again. We don’t have a vibrant, reacting, vigorous core on the surface – in the discussion here much at all. God is faithful, though, to keep His own. Find us, as God wills it, in Jesus’ authoritative name.

  55. Bruce A. Baxter on May 14, 2019 at 5:23 pm

    Are you sure today’s church is Biblical? Church may be a Biblical concept (Church simply means gathering, not an organized religious corporation) but in order for a Church to be as the Bible describes it needs to follow Biblical rules. Does the Church of today do that? NO I DOESN’T. Maybe the independent mom and pop church here and there – but the major factions, who are so corrupt that they have formed commissions who say who is and isn’t “admitted” are NOT.

    The Church organization is engaging in racial separation. Does God approve of that? It makes idols out of it’s leaders and makes them filthy rich, while there are homeless Christians forking over tithes – is THAT the Church of the Bible? pandering to politicians, governments and the ways of the world – afraid to stand up against whatever the world is pushing this time… id THAT God’s plan for Church? Afraid of prosecution, of wealth being taken away – where is the Church as the world falls into deeper and deeper sin? Silent. Is that the Bible church? NO.

    Looking the other way while the Church leaders are engaging in pimpery, adultery, homosexuality, child abuse? Is that the Church we are supposed to go to anyway? Is that what God intended? I don’t think so.

    You can advocate for people going to Church, and point out that we should according to the Bible – but don’t sit there and ignore that the Church of the Bible is not what we have today. And since it does not exist, then don’t deceive people, or try to shame them into not attending the Church of Satan – which is what it is now. The tares have choked out the wheat. The Church is not a building, and people seeking God should not be expected to “fix” this broken Church when they are still in the infancy of their Christianity. That is the job of the Church leadership – to give people a holy place that is practicing as the Bible commands – ON DAY ONE.

    You will have an argument when the Church starts following the Bible. But as of now, everything you say does not apply to the real world, and people who do not go to Church because the Church is corrupt have a perfectly legitimate reason not to go there. It isn’t healthy for our souls and not what God wants us to do. THAT, is following the Bible, not going out of hollow “devotion”.

    • robo421 on May 14, 2019 at 5:49 pm

      Bruce, I could not have said it any better than what you conveyed. I fully agree with you and yes, it is racially devided.

    • fessdo on May 14, 2019 at 6:25 pm

      Bruce,
      You’re beginning to get to it, just stay in the word and keep your eyes on Jesus not the CHURCH. Prospering pastors will not tell you about JESUS,,,, who can free you from the losing end. If you’re lacking in this world you need Jesus who HAS fulfilled that.

    • Asher on November 18, 2019 at 7:39 pm

      Bruce, well said. The church of today is not the Church that the Bible commands us to attend. This author is part of the luciferian agenda to subvert devotion to God and to either persecute and destroy or draw back into the apostate church system those who have actually escaped its corruption. If he continues in that path, he will face his judgment before God alone. No luciferian will cheer his ill-advised audacity; no christian will speak for him; no fallen angel will take up his cause; and Jesus, who is THE Advocate, will not defend him. He will be alone when he faces God, and he will eat his words and his stubborn insistence to live for himself while pretending to live for God. As Jesus said, “many” will hear on that Day, “I never knew you.” The Lake of Fire is not a place for God-haters to congregate and relate and party; it is a place where God-haters will rue the day they were born and will weep and wail and gnash their teeth, unable to find mercy from God and many of them still unwilling to ask for it.

      Cheers also to you Fessdo, Son, and Richard Paulson.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:48 pm

      Church is *not* as it should, yet we must still gather *today*. What are *you* going to do, dear sibling in our same Master and Savior Jesus Christ? Let me relieve your soul in delights concerning Him for a small time, then go back, faithfully waiting. ..together if *you* can. :^D He loves you, and, because He has shown me His own love, deeply, I do, too. Bye for now..

  56. Richard Paulson on May 12, 2019 at 3:50 am

    I myself don’t reject any Christian fellowship, which is really the point. But if the said churches are not Christian then they won’t really fellowship with me on the basis that I am a Christian. It doesn’t matter that they say they are Christians. They are not, because it is they which will not be in fellowship with a genuine Christian. The problem is where can I find a genuine Christian to fellowship with? The ritualistic visitations to man made buildings is not church. The church is a body that lives together daily in fellowship. So Sunday meetings only, or gathering at only certain times of the week at certain allocated hours is them actually saying that they are DONE with the true church of God. This is more the case even because their gatherings are not designed for fellowship or to seek God, but are for controlling the people and for making money.

    • son on May 12, 2019 at 3:49 pm

      Amen, brother, AMEN! The modern church is a BUSINESS. Make no mistake about that.
      The TRUE church is in your heart, where Jesus lives.

      • son on May 12, 2019 at 4:24 pm

        As my beloved brother Fessdo, who evidently was banned from posting on this forum, emphasized, “ONLY THE BLOOD OF JESUS” gets you into Heaven. Do you think going to church will get you into Heaven? Do you think good deeds will get you into Heaven? Do you think accumulating over $40 million, like the renowned pastor Joel Osteen has, will get you into Heaven? Dear brother Fessdo, I hope you are out there and reading this. ONLY THE BLOOD OF JESUS will get you into Heaven. Jesus completed the work of your salvation. Show Him gratitude and reverence, every minute of every day. Our existence is all about Jesus. He is the Source, the Reason, The meaning of life.

        JOHN 10:27-28
        My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
        And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

        • Richard Paulson on May 13, 2019 at 1:13 am

          Hi there “son”.

          I agree that the blood of the Lord Jesus is God’s provision for us to be able to appear before God as blameless of all sins. The blood of Jesus took away our sins before God, which means that he made them appear as white as snow and as sheep’s wool, or as innocence in God’s eyes (thus turning away God’s wrath from us), because they were done in ignorance. See Isaiah 1:18 and Numbers 15:22-36 regarding the reason for the atonement, and Luke 23:34. Jesus did not die for willful sin done in the knowledge of the truth. See also Hebrews 10:26.

          There is an awful fallacy among Christians in saying that Jesus died to “pay for sin” or that he was our “substitute”. I am called to wake up the true church of God to this lie and to see that the opposite is true, which is that Jesus Christ died to prove us innocent to God by his blood. For to have “justification” means to have “proof of innocence”. And we are “justified by his blood” (Romans 5:9). To be justified means to be “shown blameless” or “proved innocent”. Thus even though according to the law of Moses, we are guilty of sin, and therefore cannot be “justified” by it, because the law of Moses is no judge of our spirits, (for that a person can sin with his flesh and yet do so in innocence of spirit), by Jesus Christ the righteous Judge, we can be shown to be truly innocent of all sin to God. This is what Jesus Christ did for us to God, and what he still does for us as our high priest and advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1-2) He did not come to “condemn” us by the cross, which is what the idea of him as our substitute does. Nowhere in the Authorized King James Bible can be found the words “pay for sin” or “substitution”. The idea of Jesus Christ dying as our substitute is completely foreign to the Bible and actually denies the main point of the gospel, because that idea establishes our guilt before God. Therefore it cannot reconcile us to God. Whereas Jesus Christ “taking away” sin, means that sin is not attributed to us by the blood of Jesus Christ. This is the message of reconciliation. This is the gospel which God revealed to me after being a Christian for a number of years. There are so very many Scriptures that verify all of this, as it is as soundly Biblical as one can get.

          Yet what I just said, you are sure never to have heard from anyone else. This is because the said “church” is not the church and the preaching that is universal is opposed to this Gospel.

          Thus it is also written in John 5:28-29: “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

          Here, there are only two destinies and two realities in the words of Jesus Christ. The truth is that one can ultimately only have done either good or evil, but not both good and evil, in God’s eyes. Thus it is exactly what Jesus Christ says: All those that have done good and only good in God’s eyes, because the blood of Jesus takes away their sin, shall have the resurrection of life. But all those that have done evil, and only evil in God’s eyes, because all the good they may have done has been taken away by their turning to evil works and preferring sin to righteousness, shall have the resurrection of damnation.

          This is different to what is taught by “mainstream Christianity,” but it is exactly what the Scriptures say.

          “Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKETH AWAY the sin of the world.” John 1:29

          Colossians 1:21-22 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh THROUGH DEATH, to present you holy and UNBLAMEABLE and unreproveable in his sight:

          It is even literally stated here that Jesus Christ died to prove our innocence to God. For how can a person be without blame to God if he has sinned at all in the past? Not because he stops sinning, for there must be a record of all his past sins against him, UNLESS, all his past sins can be shown to be acts of innocence to God (and not true sins, because they were not willful), through Jesus Christ bearing them up to God in his body as something other than what they have appeared; namely, as righteousness to God in his offering himself up to God as our righteousness. Thus Jesus Christ turned the sin of ignorance which crucified him (the well meaning sin of the people), into the offering of perfect righteousness to God. This is the reconciliation of the world to God and the most wondrous act.

          Yet you hear the opposite of this preached everywhere in saying that we all deserve death and hell. There are no Bible verses saying that we all deserve death and hell, and that idea is certainly a denial of the good news. But the very existence of the words “justify” and “justified” and “justification” and “justifier” and “justifieth” in the Bible, already states that Jesus died to prove us innocent to God. He rose again from the dead to do the same continually as our high priest.

          How is it possible that the entire church in the whole world has missed this truth when it is plainly stated in Scripture? Because Satan is the preacher in the mouth of all the false ministers and they have filled the world with taking Scripture out of context. For example, you will hear it preached, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” and yet not said in conjunction with the following verse, which says: “Being JUSTIFIED freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” Romans 3:23-24. And the devil who is the accuser, MOST ESPECIALLY does not want anyone to know what that plain English word “justified” really means.

          2 Corinthians 5:19 “To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, NOT IMPUTING their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.”

          To “not impute” sin to us means to “not attribute” sin to us. It does not mean to pay for sin, but it means to say that there is no sin to be found in us. In other words, although the law of Moses says the whole world is guilty of sin, God says that there is justification for sin through Jesus Christ. God says through Jesus Christ to the world: “You have not sinned.” This is the GOOD NEWS of reconciliation. Therefore people should respond to this in being reconciled to God also in their behaviour by the free gift of the Holy Spirit. This is the true grace of God which brings salvation.

          Glory to God!

          • son on May 13, 2019 at 11:02 am

            PHILLIPIANS 4:7
            “And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.”



          • Jim T. on May 13, 2019 at 11:21 am

            It may simply be a misread but I detected an indication that the Blood of Christ does not cover “willful” sin. To that I ask you to consider 1John 1:7; “…but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. ” I made sure to cite the “authorized” King James Version as you seem to favor this version. I pray you continue to seek God’s truth and Ways and do so primarily from the guidance of the Holy Spirit…not a bunch of humans back in the 1600’s.



          • son on May 13, 2019 at 2:38 pm

            Also, re: your representation that “Jesus did not die for willful sin done in the knowledge of the truth.”:
            Are you saying that if you have received Jesus as your Savior that you will no longer be a sinner? Are your sins, which you will inevitably commit since “all have sinned and fallen short of The Glory of God”, unforgiven in that case? You, and I, and all, have the seed of sin within us. We cannot escape it. Jesus died to absolve us from ALL sin, past, present and future. As I once asked Carey (he did not respond to me), “Why would a pastor look at porn?” Answer: because that pastor, like all of us, is a sinner. God’s Mercy is that He forgave us. God knows we are all sinners. Be humble and thankful that God sent Jesus to forgive us.



          • fessdo on May 13, 2019 at 10:57 pm

            Richard,
            You just wrote me a 558 word comment and used the word Jesus just 4 times?



          • Richard Epler on July 30, 2019 at 1:47 am

            No one can rightly say Paul taught truth until they believe God and His words of life and about life and about what a life the pleases Him does – which is the Torah – the commandments and Instructions of God. This is what Jesus taught in Matthew, and why Jesus upheld the Law to the least of the commandments.
            Fact is that Christian Bibles are twisted and deny God and the Teachings of Jesus – they are false translations that tell lies in the name of God.

            onediscipletoanother.org

            Study the quotes of Hebrew Scripture in the NT to the Greek based translations – repleatedly they alter the word of God, the Prophets and Psalms.

            M<ak, Luke, John and Acts all testify against Matthew and the Hebrew Holy Scriptures.



          • T A Bradly on April 1, 2020 at 6:03 pm

            The Christ, Jesus would absolutely not recognize the church of today. The entire church regardless of denomination or religious persuasion has bastardize Christ’s love your neighbor concepts. The church is now more interested in producing money for it’s so called pastors, as it continues to control people’s minds by the threat of hell to intimidate the actions of the flock and to control the politics of the dat



        • fessdo on May 13, 2019 at 6:22 pm

          Richard,
          Get you a bible you can understand,,, Hebrews 10:26 Living Bible (TLB)
          26 If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior after knowing the truth of forgiveness, this sin is not covered by Christ’s death, there is no way to get rid of it.
          If you don’t know Jesus is the Savior here in this verse, then get a clue, or read it again, again, again. My friend “son” is trying to show you that Jesus is the way and the truth!!!! so stop following your religion and start following Jesus. Jesus did a great job, in fact Jesus fulfilled the law so you don’t have too. But it takes faith in that fact.

          • son on May 13, 2019 at 8:22 pm

            Fessdo, beloved brother, SO GOOD to hear from you again! Praise God that you are still here to inspire me with the wisdom He gives you! You have influenced my thinking, probably more than you know, with your faith and experienced wisdom. As I asked Carey, and he did not respond, “why would a pastor look at porn?” What did Peter and Paul and John do when they felt horny? The seed of sin is within every one of us mortal human beings and it won’t go away. That is why we all are sinners and shall continue to sin, regardless of our will or good intentions. THAT IS WHY WE HAVE NO HOPE WITHOUT JESUS! You are right, brother. ONLY BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS ARE WE SAVED! Works just don’t cut it with God, because we have the seed of sin within us and are helpless to resist that. JESUS, JESUS, JESUS, ONLY JESUS. Can any of you out there say you do not sin, STILL, in spite of your professed allegiance to and faith in Jesus? You, WE, are ALL sinners, brethren!
            JOHN 8:3-11
            And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.



          • son on May 13, 2019 at 8:31 pm

            Fessdo, beloved bro, if I read you right here, you are saying, in the scripture you quoted, that if one knows that Jesus is The Lord and denies that knowledge, it is The Unforgivable Sin, and I agree. THAT is the spirit of Anti-Christ, Anathema, who will be destroyed when God returns in The Power of His Glory and The Holy Word is restored to His rightful place as King of All that was, is and shall be I love you SO MUCH, wise and blessed brother Fessdo. Your wisdom has meant so much to me, I can’t begin to tell you.
            I’m SO GLAD you are back on this forum!.



          • Richard Paulson on May 13, 2019 at 10:03 pm

            I will address all of your comments by name.

            Fessdo, you are utterly clueless. It is God that you are rejecting in rejecting my words which are the true Scriptures, not me. There is only one true Bible, and I understand it and you most certainly do not understand the gospel. You are quoting not from the Bible.

            Son, I have been very clear in what I said. If anyone rejects the gospel which I just declared they are not a Christian. If anyone says that Jesus did not die to prove our innocence, after reading what I wrote, they are condemning themselves as guilty. If you say that you are a true sinner then you are saying you cannot go to heaven. There are many Scriptures that say this. For example: According to Nahum 1:2-3:
            “God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies. The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.”
            Anyone who thinks that God just forgives everyone without justice, has a false “Jesus” in their thinking. That’s not the true Biblical Jesus. God only forgives what is just to forgive, and it is only just to forgive the sin of ignorance and weakness of the flesh, which is unmeaning sin, but not just to forgive willful sin.

            Jim T, I follow God in the true Bible, not a bunch of humans as you said. A person cannot just go to the Bible ‘version’ that suits him best. That is foolishness. And the verse you quoted is referring to God cleansing us from all sin in the flesh, not from willful sin. The “cleansing” is not even a literal thing. The literal blood of Jesus does not cleanse you like a soap on your body in a physical sense. This is symbolic language. You don’t even know what it means. But I cannot prove anything to anyone who does not even believe in the actual words of Scripture. But I ask you to consider, 1 John 3:8-9 “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

            Do not any of you pretend that they can explain these Scriptures away as if it is not saying what it is saying, or try to tell me it isn’t the real Scripture. If anyone is really a sinner, and cannot be proven righteous indeed, you can fully expect to go to hell. If you think you can sin willfully and get away with it and do that sin, then you are going to go to hell. You are reprobates if you believe so evilly, after what I declared clearly as the truth. According to Joshua 24:19 “And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.”



          • fessdo on May 13, 2019 at 10:37 pm

            Dave,
            Good to see you’re hanging in their being a inspiration to those who need Jesus. Whether their name be Greg or Richard Paulson the same religious spirit is controlling them, and Jesus ISN’T the Lord and master of their life, so let’s have a bit of pity on them. Dave it’s all about Jesus and not about us. Peace my friend.



          • fessdo on May 13, 2019 at 11:33 pm

            Richard,
            Let me help you here,Hebrews 10:26 Living Bible If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior, If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior, If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior,,, by rejecting the Savior,,, by rejecting JESUS after knowing the truth of forgiveness. Get it my friend, it’s so simple even a cave man can get it? It’s JESUS not RICHARD that’s the answer.



          • son on May 14, 2019 at 8:38 am

            You know, fessdo, some of the people who post here are so concerned with impressing others with their theological brilliance, they ignore the fact that many of Jesus’ followers, such as myself, don’t need to be Emmanuel Kant or Rene Descartes to love Jesus, worship Him and trust Him for our salvation. As you have emphasized, it’s really just not that complicated. Let me reiterate here:
            JOHN 3:16
            “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
            That’s it. God decreed it and I believe it
            However, if it helps others to delve into every last little nuance of the scriptures, fine, let them indulge themselves. I would only advise that they beware lest they become a stumbling block for another believer with their insistence that they know better than anyone else. Come to think of it, that is EXACTLY the reason I avoid organized church attendance now. There are those who would impose their will and their personal thinking on others, both on this forum and also at the building called a “church”.
            ;).
            Oh, and Carey, I truly appreciate you allowing me to participate on this forum. I do think you are doing the best you can, with a clear conscience, to serve God and inspire others to worship Him.

            Dave



          • son on May 14, 2019 at 8:58 am

            lol, fessdo
            “Richard,
            You just wrote me a 558 word comment”
            You COUNTED? lol!



          • fessdo on May 14, 2019 at 9:14 am

            Dave,
            If I hadn’t gotten sleepy I was going to count Richard’s “I”s and “me”s. The two things “law dogs” love to do is use the old testament and a lot of I’s and me’s in their long powerless stories. Also the thing they hate is to hear or say the name Jesus to much, guess that’s why they stay out of the new testament? The name of Jesus is where the power is and he’s given us the authority to use His name. Now that’s good news.



          • Richard Epler on July 30, 2019 at 1:55 am

            No where in Matthew does Jesus say such a thing. Jesus said Your righteousness must exceed that of the leaders in his day – or there is no way you’ll be in the Kingdom. In fact – where is any prophecy or teaching given by Jesus in Matthew that his righteousness will apply to anyone else but himself? Where? It doesn’t exist. Also – is God incapable to forgive sin without sheading of blood? Read Ezekiel 18. Paul lied against God Almighty and makes Him out ot be no better than a Baal follower sacrificing their children!!!!?????

            Truth from Cain to Jesus is that repenting and doing better is what brings us closer to God. God said man is capable and responsible to overcome his own sin – that it no posses him and rule over him.

            Once again – PAUL LIED, but GOD IS TRUE>



          • Richard on August 6, 2019 at 7:07 pm

            So you believe the Law at Sinai was given by angels who are not God?
            I’ll choose to believe Jesus and God – thank you!



    • Robert on September 5, 2019 at 1:50 pm

      Richard, If you live in the northern part of the eastern seaboard. Perhaps we can find a way to gather. I am praying to meet people that think this way. Anyone else for that matter. I could not drive 4 hours one way, every day, unless the Lord provide a way. In which case I would.

      • Robert on September 5, 2019 at 2:00 pm

        Umm… nevermind. I should have read all of your posts first. I am willing to be open to my understanding of scripture but I am pretty sure the Holy Spirit would not take me here.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:52 pm

      I like your framing and your formulation, Christian. Here I am – pick me. Find me on facebook – the dirty forum is useful, after all, and we are *still* in the world.. Love Christ our saving Master Jesus, Whom God resurrected after sending Him to Earth physically, together wherever you find us – His bodily members. Amen.

  57. Richard Paulson on May 12, 2019 at 1:27 am

    I am not “done” with the church. I am a member of the body of Christ wherever they may be (which is the true church), although I am alone. I am alone because the said churches are not the church. The said “Christian organizations” are not the body of Christ. They are not truly Christian. So that has become increasingly evident over many years the more I am led by God into “all the truth.” Most who say they are Christian are not Christian. So my problem is in not being able to find genuine Christians because they do not pass the most basic test of being a true Christian. In proclaiming the gospel I am rejected by the said Christians because they have universally been taught a false gospel which literally denies the reason why Jesus died and the very SUBSTANCE of the meaning of “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.” Many said Christians may say the right words up to a point, but they deny the very substance of the truth of “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.” If I tell a said Christian what that is, they will not fellowship with me. They will not fellowship or come into the true church of God. Because the church is not a Sunday “service” once per week honouring a man made building. The church is me, which they deny having any fellowship with simply because I do in fact declare the truth.

    • son on May 12, 2019 at 3:53 pm

      Speak freely of our glorious Lord Jesus to anyone and everyone, brother, as His Spirit may prompt you.
      Share Jesus with others.
      Be thankful to Him and humble.
      THAT is the TRUE church.

    • Jim T. on May 14, 2019 at 6:30 am

      1 John 1:8 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

      “If we say that we have no sin”, we deceive ourselves, and “the truth is not in us.” You think more highly of yourself then you aught.

      Who told you you have the “true Bible” ? Not God, I assure you. Jesus clearly stated that the Holy Spirit will guide you to all truth. I cannot find any indication in the Bible that proclaims that an English king and a bunch of men labelled “scholars” would take over for the Holy Spirit in and around the 1600″s. Your verbal assaults on those who are simply sharing what is in their hearts is an indicator of your inner insecurity. You tweak the scriptures to fit what you desire them to say rather than allowing them to speak to you. Case in point is your misrepresentation of Hebrews 10:26. For many centuries the power and control hungry, hell-fire and brimstone types within organized religion have utilized the same misguiding interpretation which results in the lost receiving the false message that there are people who are capable of “not” sinning in the religious arena, and 1John 1:8 says they are liars. If you really take a sincere evaluation of your spiritual walk you will find that you are trying to add some old wine to the new wine…which is never good. Remember Romans 8:1-2; “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” I say all of this with love and I pray our Lord revels to us what is right. Peace.

      • son on May 14, 2019 at 8:52 am

        @Jim T.
        1 JOHN 1:8
        ” If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
        Is there anyone out there that can truthfully say they do not STILL lust?
        What did Paul, Peter and John do when they woke up with a boner?
        Seriously…..the seed of sin is in ALL of us. That’s why God had to sacrifice His Only Begotten Son, out of His Agape for us. Sin is inescapable. Jesus is The Solution to that enigma. No human will ever be perfect on this earth. (Excepting Jesus, of course).

        • Jim T. on May 14, 2019 at 11:44 am

          son,
          Apparently my reply to Richard Paul was entered as a reply to you. I am sorry if it appeared that way. At any rate I am absolutely in agreement with your view. My concern was with what I saw in Richard Paul’s commenting was a sort of subliminal indication that he had successfully gained control over his sinful nature…which as you and I have awakened to is impossible. Why would we even need a Savior if we had even the slightest capability of becoming sinless by our efforts? I was so misguided by the organized religion I grew up in because they transmitted the same message as I seem to see in Richard’s comment that I ended up accepting the belief that I was created to go to hell. I accepted this belief because I found it impossible to be righteous continually and believed that all those people at the church could….so I was some sort of freak. Of course, neither you or I view this as a license to sin. But those of true humility accept their sinful nature, are extremely grateful for the gift of a Savior, which causes us to desire sin less and less. I agree we will not be perfect while in our flesh. Peace!

          • son on May 14, 2019 at 1:28 pm

            Amen, brother!
            As my old friend fessdo says, “We don’t WANT to sin and offend God when we have the Holy Spirit living in us.”
            So, really we are not WILLFULLY sinning, although sin is sin. As you and I agree, we are sinful by nature.
            And, we are admonished in
            MATTHEW 26:41
            “Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
            Peace, brother!

            Dave



    • son on May 14, 2019 at 8:43 am

      Hey, fessdo, that’ comparison of Richard to Gregg is interesting. Remember Gregg, the “works man”? Wonder where HE went?

    • son on May 14, 2019 at 10:29 am

      fessdo, ole pal, nice to see you haven’t lost that great sense of humor! Hey, btw, this church I was attending for a while, the pastor started in, suddenly, beating the drum for donations of money. Way he put it, “God wants you to tithe, give donations and make offerings, too.” “Tithe?”, I asked myself. Tithing doesn’t appear anywhere in our new covenant that God gave us, the NT! I then realized that there was a wolf amongst the flock, trying to make those unsuspecting and ignorant folks feel guilty, as though they were transgressing God’s Word by not “tithing”. I scrammed out of that church so fast you could hear the wind whistling amongst the pews, never to return. The pastor, a wolf wearing sheep’s clothing. Thanks to you, I wasn’t buying in on his bs. You taught me well, dear brother. Thanks again!

      Dave

  58. Kevin Untener on April 25, 2019 at 1:44 pm

    It was August, 2001. As I was preparing to go on a mission to Ghana with 18 young souls, I was reading a letter from the pastor of a sister church there and the activities our group was going to engage in. Preaching in various villages, worshiping, casting out demons, etc, etc. When I was reading this, a certain part jumped out at me and stirred my spirit, “casting out demons.”.

    We arrived in Ghana and split in to groups of three and a guide for each group for translation. My group traveled hours to a remote village in the middle of, I don’t really know. Ghana has a very distinct aroma and color. The area is lush green and the earth is a burnt orange. Vultures are in abundance like pigeons in a city. Termites create hills that are up to six feet high and the people smile and glow. Sometimes when people greet each other and talk to one another they will hold hands for an extended time. The village we ended up in for the night had goats and chickens walking around, some huts were wood, some on the outskirts were clay with grass roofs.

    We set up to hold a service in the village school, a typical single-roomed wood building. As the pastor of that village began to speak and the worship team began (a guy playing a homemade drum and a girl with an angelic voice) to sing to signal the start of the service. I was pacing and praying outside the building getting my being ready to be used. Off in the distance I could see a few women dancing in the moonlight to the worship music being played. They were not on their way to attend, they were just enjoying the moment by their hut, it was beautiful.

    The service began and I preached about the power of prayer of a righteous man citing Elisha and how it is meant for everybody to have that power through the righteousness of Christ. As we ended the service, we started worshipping and the people lined up to be prayed over. One by one they came forward to receive prayer. At the end of the line was a teenage girl. When she made her way to the front and spoke with the pastor it was learned that she was full of demons, my spirit leapt, this was the very moment, the very reason I was to be on this mission trip. I told the people of that vision . I prayed, the music rang, I prayed and the people sang. The young lady’s eyes rolled back in her head and I could see nothing but the whites as she flung her head back and her body fell to the floor and the demon left her. The service ended, I was elated and exhausted. We spent a few more days in the village walking from house to house, praying and preaching, I was never lost for the right words, reaching all sorts of souls, and seeing signs everywhere, for thus I know Christ is alive.

    I have seen people from all walks of life living a life of destruction and the Church reaching out to these people changing lives, reuniting families and these people becoming whole again, I know the Church saves.

    I have also seen many of people strung out from condemnation and guilt, broken and hurting deep inside from the constant pressure of trying to do what is right according to the preaching and teaching of those deemed as leaders of the Church. I know the people are imperfect.

    A few years ago as the world was going through debate on same sex marriage, the Church didn’t know how to respond. Some responded with open arms and other responded with condemnation, no uniformity, it was very confused and confusing. Unfortunately the president of the congregation I was attending announced from the pulpit as he was preaching that he would not live in a country where that allowed same sex marriage. I was like What? your called to reach the poor, the hurting and to preach the good news of salvation to the lost and you’re preaching this. That stuck with me, and not in a good way. He was preaching hate and condemnation while supposed to be representing love and grace. Yes, the people are imperfect.

    You wrote you can not separate Church from Christ, this is truth, but where it gets convoluted is when one needs to separate the people (church) from the Church. This is a main concept I have learned in my spiritual walk, follow Christ, not people. When a person does wrong from a high position in the Church, the masses do not separate that person from the Church or from Christ, they blame both the Church and Christ for that person’s actions because that person is representing Christ and the Church, thus the Church is at fault, Christ is to blame. This will be and is the downfall of the Church. One must be able to separate the people of the Church from the Church itself.

    A man must work out his own salvation. Follow me as I follow Christ..these quotes from the Bible tells an individual he or she must dig in and find the truth from scripture, prayer, worship and the simple eyeball test of “if it doesn’t fit, you must acquit.” If a Catholic priest molests a child, obviously it isn’t God, it’s the individual, if a pastor cries for donations and then buys a plane, we know it isn’t the Church, it’s the individual. But in today’s culture, if a person misrepresents a company, that person is lambasted by the media, fired by the company and the masses elect to boycott that company, until forgotten. It’s hard to separate the individual from the company. as to it is with the imperfect people that make up the perfect Church.

    The Church is built on the principle of salvation and Christ is the head. It’s a spiritual and devine entity beyond ones physical ability to see, hold, feel or even imagine. This Church shall not be overcome by anything for it resides in a realm beyond people. But the church, the people of this world with their several doctrines that conflict one another, the bingo parties and potlucks, out reaches and squabbles is not the same entity, though it carries the same name. It is not made up of Christ but people who elect to try and follow Christ to the best of their abilities. We must separate the Church from the church of people or call it something else, because it is two distinct and different entities. One is man made, physical and completely flawed, while the other is devine and spiritual and one must be able to discern the difference for his or her own salvation and sanity. Know Christ, Know love and know the difference.

    Thanks for listening

    Kevin

    • Jim T. on April 25, 2019 at 2:51 pm

      it.I share from a heart of desiring all to have clarity regarding spiritual matters. If one sincerely “listens” to the scriptures one will awaken to the reality that the greatest conflict or source of conflict in the universe is not good vs. evil but rather truth vs. lie. There is no where in the New Covenant that commands the erection of buildings, whether great or quaint, in which an organized religious entity is housed. There is no where in the New Covenant that commands the establishment of priestly castes, or scholastic/academic framed biblical instruction. There is no where in the New Covenant that commands the chain-of-command, dictatorial, atmosphere of gospel preaching that is the standard of the majority of organizations wrongly labelled “churches”. These are just a few of the lies that have poisoned the actual “Church” which is correctly defined as a word referring to the collective of believers in Christ. The assembly of believers mentioned within the scriptures refers to sincere believers in Christ coming together…wherever, whether in a home or in the park, on and on, and sharing from their personal experience with God and His Word under the primary guidance of the Holy Spirit. The only way possible to gain discernment between what is truth and what is a lie is to follow Christ’s Words [not the interpretations of the human intellect] “…then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.” Free from what ? Free from the lie! Do not take my word as gospel…ask God to reveal His truth and be open to receiving it.

    • Tammy on September 16, 2019 at 12:56 am

      Jesus loves the sinner. He hates the sin.

  59. Michelle Lake on April 17, 2019 at 12:52 pm

    Your article is great in theory, but in my experience of 28 years of following Christ, most leadership is not open to any correction. They have “their vision” and unfortunately, if your criticisms of biblically incorrect practices in the church are brought to their attention, you become the problem. The Word of God should settle issues in the church, but it doesn’t. Modern day churches model themselves after other churches and not the biblical church as prescribed in scripture. Call it impractical to act out Acts 2:42, but my husband and I do this twice a week with groups of believers. We are accountable to each other to make sure the word of God is not misused. We do still go to “corporate, organized worship” at a local, biblically sound (as far as we can see) church, but we are very hesitant to becoming affiliated with any church again. Our experience of the church being a business and people being part of the “machine” has been a stumbling block to our faith. Jesus’ analogy of the Body is one that is described as a garden with words like vinedresser, grafted in, part-of, vine and branches, being used to describe what the Church should look like. Never once do I see the Body referred to as a well-oiled machine, which disposable parts.

    • HoosierConservative on April 18, 2019 at 1:59 pm

      I’ve never met a church leader who was open to negative feedback, no matter how graciously you framed it. Laity is looked down upon as not being capable of exegesis or discernment. You can warn until you’re blue in the face, as nicely as possible, but they do what they want.

    • Carla on April 22, 2019 at 9:32 pm

      “I’m all churched out. . . .” Tamela Mann, the notable gospel singer had that lyric in the song titled, “Take Me to the King.” That segment of the song hit home. To understand why I don’t attend and join the membership of an organized church, a person should take into account my personal history related to my upbringing and culture (as an African-American and a PK). My father was a preacher for over forty years, and my mother—as his wife—a teacher/evangelist. I am the sixth of eight siblings. My entire life, with my siblings from the time when we were born was all about “attending church” on the regular. We ate and breathed church! It was much like the following:

      Sunday Morning: Sunday School at 9:00 a.m. Followed by Morning Worship at 11:00 a.m. And if there was a special program planned with another church as the guest, then most likely we would eat dinner at the church and stay for the program until around 11:00 p.m. Or, we would return home and eat, and within an hour and a half, return to church. If we didn’t have guest, most likely there was a YPWW (Young People Willing Workers) program for the young people to attend at night.

      Monday Night: Women’s Auxiliary Meetings around 7:00 p.m.

      Tuesday Night: Choir Rehearsal from 7:00 p.m. to around 10:00 p.m.

      Wednesday Night: Church Service starting at 8:00 p.m., maybe dismissing around 10:30 p.m.

      Friday Night: Church Service starting at 8:00 p.m., usually dismissing around 11:00 p.m. (since Saturday wasn’t a school night, staying late wasn’t considered a problem).

      Saturday Afternoon: Sunshine Band for the youngsters. By Saturday night, perhaps a District Meeting, a Musical (Mid-night or another program), a dinner sale or special program. . . It could be several things planned for that night.

      Then start all over again on Sunday! And many times we were the guest church for other local churches, so we had to quickly eat dinner and then off to that local church or—in many cases—churches that took us out of the state.

      BUT WAIT, THERE’S MORE!
      A “revival” usually lasted a whole week. That meant EVERY night of the week.
      The holidays were nonstop! There was Good Friday services around noon at the church. Then Resurrection Sunday, which was the custom. My mother would prepare Sunrise Breakfast for the members of the church on Sunday morning, and her daughters helped to prepare it prior to sunrise, around 4:00 a.m., and then help clean up afterwards. After that, change clothes for Sunday School and church service for the entire day. My mother also hosted Christmas dinners for the church members—preparing food and entertainment. Christmas programs included plays, readings, and poems (that meant the PKs had to participate in a big way). Also, my siblings and I were singers and instrumentalist with our own singing group. We occasionally went out of town to sing and perform on the weekends, BUT, we had to be back in time for Sunday Morning church, no matter how late we arrived home.
      Though I was attending a university in my hometown, there was little to no time to work on my school curriculum. I was too tired and too busy with “church stuff” to really care about my academic courses. As a consequence, I rarely attended my classes and didn’t finish past my junior year. I was burnt OUT!

      Was I “saved” in my teen years under my father’s ministry? No. Did I have a healthy respect for Jesus Christ and the things of God? Yes. My siblings and I were taught to respect God, church, and tried our best to behave in a “righteous” way to please our parents, even though I never fully understood the gospel message in a personal way as to having a relationship with Christ. I wasn’t a smoker nor a drinker, and, had never attended a secular party or went to a bar in my life. I didn’t use profanity. . . I was a decent person from the viewpoint of being moral. Perfect? No way! I was well aware that if I had died in my sins, hell would be my eternal home.

      Let’s fast forward to my adult life.
      After I married and moved to another state (I married a military man), I made plans to finally “enjoy” my life, but it wasn’t to be so. After moving into an apartment—it was on a Good Friday—I felt this horrible depression that I felt I didn’t want to live. I started reminiscing about Good Friday services and missing my family. So, I turned on the radio (there was no Facebook, YouTube, etc., in those days). The channel had several preachers on the station, and I listened to what I had been taught all my life, but never wanted to accept. Out of all the preachers that spoke, only ONE preacher (until this day I still don’t know who he is) talked about Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross, and it so convicted me that I began to cry. Then, I saw what appeared to a vision—a cloudlike type of vision as though it had materialized in my bedroom! The scene was extremely bright but cloudy. I can’t quite explain it to this day. But it was Jesus hanging on the cross in my bedroom! I couldn’t distinguish His face because it was so bloody as though mauled, and the brightness was nearly blinding! His entire body hung stretched and He seemed to be breathing out His last breaths. In His presence I felt FILTHY—just dirty and unclean in His presence and in the glaring light. So, I turned my face away, crying profusely in shame and unworthiness. And Jesus said to me in a quiet voice that was laden with suffering, “I would’ve done it just for you.”

      Those words hit me like a bolt of lightning! And the gospel message became instantly clear and alive: if I was the only sinner in the world, Jesus would’ve given His life just to save me alone. It was on that Good Friday in April that I gave my life to the Lord Jesus Christ right there in my apartment! My husband then accepted Jesus as his Savior that following May.

      My husband and I did find a church that had taught us well. Unfortunately, that pastor and wife divorced a couple of years later. But my husband and I found ourselves too busy again! I was on the Pastor’s board. I was the church secretary, also in the choir, and on the Anniversary Committee and working part-time in a secular job while trying to balance it all. It was program after program after program again. . . Eventually, my husband was given PCS orders to another state. We were given a letter of commendation for our church attendance and a letter to take with us with a plaque extolling our dedication from the pastor. That was in 2006. The pastor had reunited with his wife before his passing to glory. My husband and I still have the letter of recommendation because we haven’t joined a church since then. Though we do drop in to visit one specific church in our area, we have not joined a membership. We are approaching sixty-years-old now.

      There is much more I want to say, but for the sake of making this too lengthy, I wasn’t taught anything about “eschatology” in my father’s church, nor in the church I had attended once I became saved. Though the pastors would mention the Rapture, they never went into detail about it, and rarely taught from the book of Revelation (not that I could remember). So, one day I met a Catholic apologist online in a Christian forum. I didn’t even know what an “apologist” was! He taught me how to defend “the faith,” and I learned (I was, and still am a Protestant) how to defend the gospel of Christ concerning faith in grace. For nearly two years he put me in a position to defend the reason why I believed in salvation in Jesus Christ through faith in grace alone, and to prove solo scripture as sound doctrine outside of oral tradition relating to Catholic dogma. He taught me to the point that he couldn’t even defend his own faith after a while. Facebook was only about three years old then, and I wasn’t on any social media platforms. Soon, I was learning about Catholicism, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormonism, SDA, etc., and I had learned to defend against such heretical beliefs with Scriptural proves. That was around 2007. I researched, learned, and grew in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord. I eventually learned about the Rapture, The Second Coming, the Tribulation. . . eschatology in general. I learned outside the organized church. YouTube is a treasure-trove of learning about eschatology (I believe the Pre-tribulation viewpoint, btw). Needless to say, I have a “relationship” with Jesus Christ. And though “fellowship” is good when assembling with others, (“as for some”—implying what is the custom for some people, as written in Hebrew 10:25) much of my learning was in prayerful study of the Scriptures with online sites, and those I have never met before, and by the leading of the Holy Spirit. He is the BEST Teacher. I have a true love especially for eschatology. I’ve learned much from the book of Daniel, Ezekiel, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, Revelation, and other apocalyptic books in the Bible. I couldn’t have learned nearly as much had I continued in the way that I was raised—constantly in church nearly every day of the week.

      I’m not saying that church attendance is not applicable in doing the service and work of the Lord Jesus, I’m saying that sometimes church activities and meetings will keep one so busy that one can’t find the time to earnestly enjoy working for the Lord Jesus. Now I have “liberty” in the direction to which He has appointed me to go. I am yet learning and enjoying working for Jesus, and have started using a PowerPoint program as an animation-like presentation on YouTube about eschatology, starting with the Rapture. It is time-consuming, but I am enjoying the work I was given to do by the leading of the Holy Spirit.

    • Mick on April 25, 2019 at 12:38 pm

      I was brought up as a Catholic. In the catholic NOBODY speaks to you and you can be anonymous. However it can get a bit grating after years of attending and know one including the priest will even make eye contact with you. So I tried other churches I am very interested in the reformed and protestant teaching. HOWEVER the churches I have attended LEAP on you as you come through the door, insisting on hugging you immediately (not good). They are familiar and basically GRILL you to find out all about you. It was like being interrogated. I went to one church and the hugging false smiles and interrogation went further they weren’t happy that my wife (less religious) wasn’t coming and would not let up. In the end I persuaded her to come with me. we where then interrogated by complete strangers as a couple. After two weeks once all knowledge was gained NOBODY spoke to us again.
      Also they where obsessed with interviewing criminals on the stage, they were treated like rock stars and the ordinary parishioners especially the older ones, totally ignored, terrible. And then theres t5he ecstaticism with the hand waving and once people falling down in a form of mass hypnotic hysteria. NOT FOR ME
      So in summary Catholic church cold as ice, Protestant church all over you and falsely intrusive. It kills my faith, so I prefer to study my bible and pray and have a close relationship with the lord and thats better for me. Sad but there it is.

      • son on April 25, 2019 at 2:50 pm

        You are right, Mick. Worship, commune with and love Jesus in the quiet and peace of your soul, in private meditation and contemplation.
        The church wants your money. It’s just a matter of time before they ask you for it.
        You are of no use to the church except to provide money to them.

  60. Alex Mclaughlin on April 16, 2019 at 4:09 pm

    What I hear through these posts is a constant whining about the faults of church. Jesus is perfect, the church not so much. (and never can be) So criticizing and cursing adds more fuel for the enemy in the spiritual realm to keep animosity and strife alive. As this topic is obviously coming from disappointments and wounds of the past then I suggest the constrictive response is to do 2 things. Ask Jesus to reveal the deep source of your discontent and obey what he shows you to do in your life, and secondly speak life and blessings into bad situations and be part of the solution

    • Todd on May 9, 2019 at 4:30 pm

      That is the point. Man will never be able to create or possess a church without spot or wrinkle or any such blemish. So why are we trying to build the church for the Lord when He said He was the one who would build it? He will present to Himself a pure and spotless bride. Unfortunately people live under the illusion that the church as defined by Constantine’s con is the same church that Jesus is building. They are not the same!!!

      Regards

    • Asher on November 20, 2019 at 7:50 pm

      Alex Mclaughlin, just because something isn’t politically correct doesn’t mean it isn’t biblically correct. It is not politically correct to say anything that isn’t positive, but it is biblically correct.

      The Bible tells you to guard your heart and your words with it. It does not tell you to refrain from telling the truth or being honest. If you are having a bad day, you can say it. The doctrine that your words can always positively (New Age) or negatively (human lack of wisdom) affect you is false. Jesus said things that our societies would consider negative about others and about Himself. Was He wrong?

      People are allowed to speak the truth, even if ‘negative’, about the churches and christians. It was Jesus who, as I stood outside a church in Kalamazoo, MI in the summer of 2012, told me to leave that church AND the institutional churches– saying that I would not find Him in them– and to move on, that He would lead me to a fellowship of like-minded brethren whom He affectionately called twice, “The Lord’s people.” Two months after I left, I returned to an institutional church since I had not found any real fellowship, but as I was going to the church (once again), the Lord brought this passage to me: “Why do you seek the living among the dead” (Luke 24:5). I told Him, “Lord, that sounds like You; but would Jesus call christians “dead”? My religious thinking was in for a shock as He immediately led me to Revelation 3:1 where He said to an entire church of christians, “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.” This was said to nothing but christians: “You are dead.” That’s because no one tells the truth just like it is without regard for political correctness and without partiality or favoritism like the Lord. So if Jesus can tell ‘negative truths’ about christians, then so can christians. Let them do so. It is truth (against lies) that make men free.

  61. Becky on March 31, 2019 at 4:11 pm

    This will be the reason for the downfall of modern churches..
    The Bible tells us that Christ, being the head of His church (Ephesians 5:23 “For the husband is the head of his wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and He is the saviour of the body.”), chose his apostles to travel from city to city teaching the gospel (Luke 9:1-2 “Then he called his twelve desciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases. And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.”). In each city, they formed “A” local church which consisted of a group of believers who chose to accept Christ as their Savior. It wasn’t a building that was erected, it was the chosen ones in Christ, the set apart, …Christs’ children. (Leviticus 20:26 “And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the Lord am holy and have severed you from other people, that ye shall be mine.”)

    1 Corinthians 1:12 “Unto the church(people) of God which is at Corinth”

    Revelation 2:1 “Unto the church(people) of Ephesus”

    Revelation 2:8 “Unto the church (people)of Smyrna”

    Revelation 2:12 “Unto the church (people)of Pergamos”

    Revelation 2:18 “Unto the church (people)of Thyatira”

    Revelation 3:1 “Unto the church (people) of Sardis”

    Revelation 3:7 “Unto the church (people) of Philadelphia”

    Revelation 3:14 “Unto the church (people) of Laodiceans”

    1 Thessalonians 1:1 “Unto the church (people) of Thessalonians”

    ….and so on.

    The Bible does not instruct us to have a different church on every corner. There is “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Ephesians 4:5) and one church, “for one spirit are we all baptized into one body” (1 Corinthians 12:13), which is the body of Christ. It does not instruct us to have many different denominations teaching different beliefs, It says that “there be no division in the body” (1 Corinthians 12:25) which is the body of Christ, the believers, the true Church of Christ.

    1 Corinthians 1:10 “Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you; but ye be perfectly joined together and in the same judgment.”

    1 Corinthians 12:13 “For by one spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews of Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have all been made to drink into one spirit.”

    Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Jesus Christ.”

    Ephesians 4:5 “One Lord, one faith, one baptism.”

    So, are modern churches truly of God and a part of Christs’ church if they go against His word for the sake of teaching their own divided beliefs???

    Romans 16:17-18 “Now I beseech you,brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not the Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.”

    Luke 11:17 “But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against itself falleth.”

    Mark 3:24-26 “And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.”

    False teachers, which the Bible warns us about, are the reason there are so many modern churches/denominations in which the majority of the population follows. However, according to the Bible, the most traveled route is not the way to life. Eternal life through Christ.

    Matthew 7:13-15 “Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the gate and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat; because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.”

    2 Peter 2:1 “But there were false prophets among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies.”

    2 Corintians 11:13 “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ”.

    2 Timothy 4:3-5 “For the time will come that they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap themselves to teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn their ears away from the truth, and shall be turned to fables.”

    Acts 20:30 “Even from your own number, men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.”

    1 John 4:4-6 “Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. They are of the world, and the world heareth them.”

    John 4:24 “God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship in the spirit and in truth.”

    • Son on April 11, 2019 at 5:48 pm

      Modern day churches want your money. That’s all they want. They can pretend otherwise, but they’re after your money. Look at filthy rich Joel Osteen. Every pastor wishes they were Joel Osteen.
      Many are called, but few are chosen.

    • Jill G Roberts on April 16, 2019 at 2:54 pm

      Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Jesus Christ.”

      So, among the scripture quotes which you have chosen to display, one would think this one above would help you see that the statement is not literal. Of course there remains before and after the time of Jesus on Earth both male and female, and other beliefs, creeds, nationalities and conditions…but the Church of Christ asks us to co-exist as if these differences matter not.

      I applaud Neiuwhof’s view and hope all can someday decipher Scripture’s intent.

    • bob on April 16, 2019 at 4:19 pm

      what an excellent post. Question is, so now what?

    • Richard Paulson on May 12, 2019 at 5:10 am

      Becky, you made a good point about the divisions or sects falsely called “Christian.” They are not the churches of God. There is one true church that is the “pillar and ground of the truth.” But it is not a matter of simply telling someone to “go to church.” I cannot find the church anywhere. I cannot find the “pillar and ground of the truth.” The true church is scattered because of the lack of true shepherds. The shepherds are mostly wolves and their said flock become wolves themselves through dedicating themselves to them. God wants to unite the true church, however, the said churches are in the way, hindering and stopping that from happening.

  62. Marie on March 31, 2019 at 11:28 am

    I didn’t leave church because I don’t believe and am suddenly a filthy sinner; I loved my church and my community there. But church is a place to work, not to rest. Church has demanded so much of me and my other friends in leadership that I don’t even know what it is to give without compulsion anymore; everything is demanded of me before I even have a chance to give with an open heart. They don’t care that I’m poor, or tired, or overworked. It’s just take, take, take. Demand, demand, demand. I left because church used me up and called me a “consumer Christian” when I begged for rest.

    My time away from the church has shown me that there are MANY Christians out here, real, actual Christians, who don’t go to church. The church loves to accuse “culture” of being consumeristic, skeptical, sexually immoral, loving sin, more carnal and and secular than its ever been before, but that just indicates how out of touch the church is with reality.

    The church doesn’t need all these studies and surveys and lists. The church needs to just listen for once and really hear what’s going on, without being defensive and trying to explain away and try to absolve itself of uncomfortable truth.

    Want to know why millennials don’t go to church? It’s because millennials are exhausted and poor, and church does nothing but demand something of them. Give millennials a place to come and rest in God’s love. Not at 10:00 am sharp on their only day off. Don’t demand casseroles, don’t demand they find time to volunteer, don’t demand money they don’t have, don’t demand them to find time for new programs, don’t demand that they lead your new programs. Just let them come and be still and know that God is God, and that He loves them for them, not for what He can get out of them. If they want to leave right after the service, let them go. If they need a quiet space, don’t force them to be social.

    If the church wasn’t such a business trying to sell something, and more just a place of unpressured, unhurried, expectation-free REST, things would look a lot different. It’s almost impossible to meet with God when everyone else won’t stop screaming about what they want and expect of you.

    • KIM LUCCI ELBUALY on August 24, 2019 at 6:26 pm

      Marie and Others Who Believe They Know Scripture So Much:

      To my sister (Marie) in Christ. We are called to learn and instill healthy boundaries. God is three separate persons in one. The Father. The Son. And the Holy Spirit. He calls us to be separate from others. Separate but one. Meaning. It is our responsibility to set healthy Christian boundaries every day in our lives. Especially as members of our church. Get yourself the Christian book titled Boundaries or Boundaries in Marriage.

      I grew up in a family where I was never taught healthy boundaries. I was abused by my neighbors. Abused by others. Stop letting this happen to you and instill boundaries within your life. Many people never learned healthy boundaries, because they never grew up with them. But believe me. You are not to old to learn and grasp God’s truth. His Holly Word and how we are to live with healthy boundaries! People will abuse you if you let them. Most people never know that they have pushed you or done anything wrong. It’s our own responsibility to tell them NO when we can’t. Setting boundaries with people who take advantage of us is difficult at first! But God will give you the strength, power, love and truth from his Word by the guidance of His Holy Spirit.

      If you give ALL of your heart, ALL of your mind and soul to Christ every day! Not when you feel like it or have time for! Every day. Throughout the day if need be. Stop blaming others. Stop blaming the church. We are called to worship together. Have fellowship together. If you don’t like your church, ask God to help you change it! If you need to go to a different church, go. If you still don’t like one and can’t find one, ask God to help you. You never know what God will do. He may ask you to be a preacher or a teacher of His Word. Then you all will know what it takes to lead a group of dead beats who complain and find fault in everything and anything! Just because!
      Stop winning all of you on this forum. Get up off your butt and ask God what your purpose is. Ask him to show you if you dare to walk into his plan he has for your life. He will give you plenty to do. And you won’t have time to complain any more about all the issues you brought to the churches you attended. Find one that is rooted in God’s Word. His love and his grace. Because without those things in a church, people cannot heal! And pray! Pray that all churches in Christ will come together. Pray and visualize that God’s Church will in fact come into his plan. After that get everyone else you know to pray….and ask and believe by Faith in Christ that His Kingdom will be done. Because all of you are missing the scriptures in Revelation, that speaks about a new transformed earth by each and everyone who walk by faith in it.

      And lastly, love your brother as yourself. Walking in God’s Word. Seeking God’s Will throughout each day and allowing Him to transform you by His grace each day. He will purify your life through His grace. You all are so caught up in who knows what. Stop it! Just let God lead your life! He will purify your life over time. All those who are using scripture to justify living and having a sinful nature need to read Revelations. The new heaven will be in our heart; which he will purify and transform in us. You all are trying to justify your untransformed lives in Christ, because you fail to yield everything to Him.

      If you want your experiences to change in any church; just ask God what your purpose is. But be ready to give up everything you thought defined your comfortable life. Because you will be surprised! If you let everything behind, follow him. Then maybe you can complain about those pastors. Otherwise stop living as a coward. Ask Him what your purpose is in his Book of Life. He will show you!

      Just An Artist,
      …who said the Our Father too many times and said as a child. Lord what does it mean to art in heaven as it is on earth? Lord I want to art too……Next thing I know I am making art. Attending college. Working as a studio artist. At some point, after feeling stuck and not feeling like I was growing. I asked if he would make a way for me to go back to college. To learn new techniques and processes. He made a way to return to college for my MFA with a teaching scholarship. He opened doors and kept me safe, even when I fell and made a mistake. I walked by faith and he delivered me from my past and now I am fully centered on Christ in everything I do and make. Before my work was about my faith in Christ. Now it is about the Word of God and my story of how he saved me again by his amazing grace. So to all those who think God does this or that. Those who think so much are just fools. Just live the life he called you to live. You won’t be sorry. It will be everything and beyond what you imagine. If everyone asked God to show them and bring them into their purpose you too will live the life that he intended for you. If everyone took responsibility for their own relationship in Christ Jesus, then they can share the part of self God intended. On his time.

      Living By God’s Grace and Love
      Kim Lucci Elbualy
      kimluccielbualy.blogspot.com

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  65. Shawn on February 21, 2019 at 10:51 am

    I love my church and what it does for our church community, our neighborhoods, and the world. I find that we do a lot more together than I can accomplish on my own. I see lives changed week after week. I wonder how much time we waste debating about these matters…with time we are to steward? Effective debating has done little if anything for God’s kingdom.

  66. Atheist Man on February 20, 2019 at 2:31 pm

    Church sucks.

  67. Son on February 19, 2019 at 1:05 am

    Are you sleeping, are you sleeping?
    Brother Fessdo, Brother Fessdo?
    Morning bells are ringing, morning bells are ringing
    Ding ding dong, ding ding dong.

    • Todd on February 19, 2019 at 4:49 pm

      Okay, I’m just a simple man. If me being out of the “church” as it has been described here makes me wrong or sinful I can only hope that the sacrificial suffering of Christ is enough to save me from the err of my ways. If it’s not I will certainly suffer the consequences. I just find it hard to imagine that as Jesus hung on the cross He cried because He knew His sacrifice would not be sufficient to save me from myself. To save someone that played the game, knew the game, and manipulated the game of this thing we call church. And now that I am tired of playing my entire existence in eternity is to be condemned to a fiery hell? That’s not the God I serve. There is sure to be people that will disagree and will accept nothing less than total allegiance to the system but I refuse to bow. It took me 36 years in the institution we call the modern-day church to find out I did not know the God I said I served. I only found Him walking down a lonely road to Golgotha.

      If we truly believe that the current structure of what was a construct of Constantine is the true church then I must ask the questions, is it without spot or wrinkle, or any such blemish. Any honest man would say no. That is because the true church of the Lord Jesus Christ is about individuals who have gone into a holy bed chamber and had intimate time with Yahweh, Jehovah, Elohim. It is made up of the portable tabernacles that have made Him their habitation and not a group of people that have put the name Jesus on the sign of their church. That sign is only an indication of where those people have stopped in the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Can these people be saved and a part of the true church, ABSOLUTELY? As individual churches or habitations of the Most High, definitely. If they have that true 3rd dimensional relationship, then most certainly so. But those people would know that going to a building and singing, hearing a preacher, and giving money does not define their salvation nor is it a testimony of their spirituality. Their hope, faith, trust, and lives are hidden with Christ in God.

      The mentality of it being all about my church or your church is where we have truly missed it. Even the word itself is an incrimination of that which the all worship. DENOMINATION=DIVIDED NATION We, that is man, has divided the nation of God. With each new church that arises after a split, or a new denomination that is added to the, now more than 2000 ones registered, we lay yet another fist to the face of Christ where He is marred to the point that no one can see who He truly is. The allegiance to denomination rather than obedience to Him is at the heart of the illusion. First, we divided over liturgy or the manner or order of worship, then by doctrine, and ultimately by religion. The Father must be truly confused or we would have the church that He promised. Instead look at what the church, that is more the leadership, has been doing in the shadows and it is Ezekiel Chapter 8 all over again.

      When Christ came all the shadows went away and He became our Church, our Tabernacle, our Temple, our Ark of the Covenant. We moved out of the shadow of what was a type and moved into the light. The construct of what it is to be is all in Him, by Him, and through Him. Not a manmade self-serving and self-appointed Apostolic ministry, and that’s not a reference to the religion. Anyone that will have the guts to read all the history of the “church” would conclude that is was no more than a mafia form of religion. This was much more to be desired than a humble and giving form of relationship with the Father and with their fellow man.
      I don’t hate but rather hate what is all has become and those that have been left in the wake of its narcissism and self-righteousness. And this is what we call the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. I weep because so many have been bewitched into believing that they will never have any more of God than the pastor will allow. The princes of the pulpits that have no understanding beyond the elementary principles of Christ are somehow thought of as seasoned men of the word because they wear the three piece suit just right, and the handkerchief is held with the grip of a master mason. All of these are styling cues that are paraded as their bona fides of spirituality. It seems that we all worship that which we do not understand.

      How did this whole thing begin? 1 man and 1 woman in a garden with 1 God. It’s that simple and yet that deep. We apparently have ulterior motives in the continuation of Constantine’s experiment that up to now has been one of man’s most successful achievements. But that is the problem it’s man’s not God’s. All we did was take an ear from here, and nose from there, an eye from that and then called it God and told the world to bow down and worship it. We created something to be sure, a graven image.

      The truth? Man wants the control over the masses. What they say, where they go, what they believe. More than this, it’s mammon, all with the sole purpose of lining their own pockets and the pockets of their denomination for the sole purpose or power, prestige, and the propagation of it’s own kind. Self-preservation is the first instinct of man. It’s is never about making disciples but rather winning converts.

      They all are no mystery to me, I used to be them.

    • Son on February 19, 2019 at 6:24 pm

      Hi Todd,
      It’s a tangled mess, for sure. My friend and brother Fessdo (where are you, ole buddy?) would say that The Blood of Jesus is all we need for salvation unto eternal life and I tend to agree. If going to church brings one peace, how can that be a bad thing? If you have God’s Peace that passeth understanding without going to church, that’s a good thing, right?
      Who’s going to heaven is up to Jesus, not us. He told us that if we believe in Him, we will be given eternal life. I believe Him.
      John 3:16

      Stay blessed, brother Todd.

      Dave

      • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 10:27 am

        Amen, we have been conditioned to attached the completed work of Christ to our ability to join a church and show up for every service. It is interesting to me that Jesus Himself never preached a gospel that was church attending centric. He continually spoke about the secrets of the Kingdom of God.

        Do not be mistaken I believe that it is both good and pleasant that we live together in unity but that does not imply that we having to meet at a specific location with a steeple and choir. Some of the most enlightening and glorious times that I have had in my communion with the Father has been in the middle of nowhere with a roaring campfire. Sometimes alone and sometimes with a few others. It is such a contrast to what I had been a part of for 36yrs. Though it may be a personal indictment about me I often tell people that I was a professional Christian. Now I am a nobody to that world but have found solace in the shadows of the almighty and would never go back.

        I am so humbled by His presence. At times, I think that the highest form of worship is utter and complete silence. It might sound crazy but the loudest sound in the world is silence before the Father. We are always too busy talking, singing, shouting, dancing, laughing, of which all are good at the right time, but being quiet and still as He rises from within you becomes a crescendo of sound unlike anything ever heard. That is because glory never comes down but rather it goes up. It was between the faces of the cherubim that the glory of God did go up as they cried Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord God Almighty.

        You are correct when you said, “Who’s going to heaven is up to Jesus, not us.” That is a powerful statement. It is diametrically opposed to what I call pseudo evangelism propagated by the system. They made us believe that making converts and saving souls were up to us but that is not the case. Winning souls simply means that we are to sow the seed of Christ, then another waters, but He gives the increase. What we are to be about doing is making disciples. But that that is not something that happens for 1 hour at 5pm on Sunday evenings. It is the pouring of your life in Christ into another person. Praying, weeping, laughing, lamenting, and celebrating as you share each other’s lives. Few people do that anymore but it’s understandable with Facebook and twitter getting the lion share of our lives these days.

        At the end of it all only those whom He knows will be welcomed to share in the Kingdom of God that has been prepared for them. It so wonderful to know that a person that He does not know can never be saved and a person He does know can never be lost. That is why He is the only Lord of the universe. Everything happens for His pleasure, all things are naked before Him, He is the beginning and the end at the same time. So, we can take our rest in knowing that no person will ever go to hell because we failed to witness to them. There is a much deeper revelation here but not for this time.

        Thank you for your words of life brother they have brought peace and comfort to me. I appreciate you indulging me. This truly is all that I have left in the world, to continue my search for the height, width, and breadth of Him and His love, and to speak with others of His goodness and mercy as well all cry Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty. Thank you for being a part of bringing glory to Him by your beautiful words.

        Kind regards,

        Todd

        • Asher on November 21, 2019 at 5:18 am

          Todd, hi. I can definitely relate to the things you are saying. I really relate where you wrote this: “Some of the most enlightening and glorious times that I have had in my communion with the Father has been in the middle of nowhere with a roaring campfire.” It reminds me of the God who met Moses in the burning bush– the authentic God, the biblical God, the One about whom Moses later wrote, “Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever You had formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God” (Psalm 90:1-2). Selah.

          The christians who are trapped in or who prefer religion and the christian who has left institutionalized religion but still quibbles over the right way to ‘do church’ have both missed it. This is about much more than where or how you ‘do church’. This is all about God’s glory. God “created them, male and female.” If they desire the same gender as themselves or think they are the wrong gender, that does not glorify God. God is glorified when everything functions according to His [original] design– whether on the natural plane or when it regards ‘religion’. It is all the same. That is why Jesus told the parable of the good Samaritan, using a non-believer to express the idea that one doesn’t have to be a [christian] to know the right thing to do and to do it.

          Truth be told, at least 9 out of 10 christians (I’m talking about church-going christians who do not know God) are more likely to find God “in the middle of nowhere with a roaring campfire” than in any church service. At best, ‘church’ is focused around the clock and the program which go together. The clock sits on the throne of every church and dictates everything: ‘time to enter the building; time to drink coffee and socialize; time for announcements; time to sing; time to cough up your money; time for a short prayer; time for a short story from the pastor; time for a sermon; time for an altar call; time for a short prayer; time to socialize a bit more; time to leave the building.’ No matter how religious or ‘righteous’ a church may seem, Jesus cannot be Lord of any place if the place already has another lord. So Jesus has left the building, not because He has rejected the people in the building (as so many advocates for remaining in or returning to church buildings think the is the central reason people leave the building), but because the people in the building (starting with the form and ritual of ‘gathering together’) have rejected Him.

          There is something that I often sense strongly on God’s heart when I pray, and it is for ‘the gathering of the [real] Church’ who are simply ‘those who worship the Father in spirit and in truth’, not on Sunday and at 10am. I live in America, and when it comes down to religion, there are only two types of christianity: cultural christianity (christianity that is influenced by and subject to the surrounding culture) and biblical Christianity (the only type of “true religion before God the Father”). American christianity is like American culture (except at least three times deader): people cannot see past their need to for comfort and convenience. So, most christians are willing to deal with the discomfort and inconvenience of getting out of bed early in the morning on one of the only days for rest they have, fussing over what they will wear, ‘getting in character’, and driving to a building for a ritual. But if they were told to pick up and move halfway across the U.S. to be near one or more believers, the notion wouldn’t even land and would fly right over their heads. The sincere believers here should seek a way to firstly meet online and to communicate. In time, God will lead each person to gather with other believers, not to a church building. We are not supposed or meant to be solitary: “God sets the solitary in families” (Psalm 68:6a).

          Lord, You have been our Dwelling Place from generation to generation. Before men had ideas or You ever created people to have opinions, Your truth has always been and is the only truth. Gather Your people, Your true Church, out from the apostasy and laziness and ungodliness of what is currently called ‘church’ and from isolation and solitude and bring them together in every city to be “a kingdom of priests” and not wandering and desolate sheep. This is Your will. Let it be done for Your glory; let it be done for their rest; let it be done, let be done, in Jesus’s Name. Amen.

      • Son on February 20, 2019 at 12:03 pm

        Amen, brother Todd.
        Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. That was beautiful and blsssed, what you said and how you said it.

        God’s Peace to you, brother.

        Dave

  68. HoosierConservative on February 18, 2019 at 1:18 pm

    Count me in among the church quitters. I’m happily married, still in my thirties, white collar professional in a fairly affluent household. Faithfully attended church (and served) for many years. In two decades of being a Christian across many cities and states, I’ve had ONE church that actually came close to real fellowship. I don’t ask for much. I’m not demanding perfection. But why is it so difficult to find a church that’s even halfway decent???

    Churches are full of imperfect people. I get it. But good grief, isn’t there some kind of standard? Isn’t there a point when enough is enough? Do imperfect people have free reign to be appalling in their behavior? When I see things from the pastor and his wife that would never fly even in the most secular business office, what am I supposed to think? When the pastors/elders are no more mature or resourceful than I am, can’t I expect a little fruit?? Why should I attend every Sunday to hear kindergarden teaching from a baby Christian behind the pulpit who slapped together a sermon from internet blogs? How many times can I waste two hours of my life before I’m tired of it? This isn’t an isolated case of one or two churches — this is the NORM. We complain and complain about this, but it falls on deaf ears.

    I’ve actually been in churches where you never knew when you were stepping in a hornet’s next on Sunday morning. You find the pastort’s wife slamming dishes in the kitchen while we she prepares the coffee and donuts, telling anyone who will listen about her buzzard of a husband who is too picky on the worship team. For God’s sake, you’re a fifty year old woman, put on your big-girl pants and get a clue! No, you are not being “transparent” and “relatable” with your equally carnal church memebrs — you are being a reproach on the church. And this isn’t just one or two places, it’s everywhere!! Counting the number of donuts people take? Watching their children like a hawk when they go to a bathroom? How many times do we have to see this junk, and how many times do we have to complain, before pastors get the message??

    And then with the music. Listen, I like great music as much as the next person, but I’m sorry to say your 19 year old daughter isn’t going to nail the vocals of Resurrecting as well as Mack Brock. I don’t want to hear a bad cover band destroy great songs. Just ditch the worship team and play iTiunes from the stage already. It would certainly save the church a lot of time and money. Or maybe choose some less ambitious songs for their ability to induce real worship. I’m tired of leaving church with a headache.

    I’m tired of leaving church feeling like I learned nothing, felt nothing, achieved nothing, and impacted nothing. And leaving means leaving, not getting coffee or lunch with anyone afterward, because there’s always an excuse when I ask. I’m tired of driving away and telling my spouse it was yet another waste of time. I’m tired of examining myself to exhaustion, condemning myself that it’s all my fault because I’m simply too picky, wondering why I can’t seem to lower my standards for the sake of “being in fellowship.” I’m tired of crying myself to sleep on Sunday night because I’m no closer to fitting in at church.

    I have a group of Spirit-filled friends who join me in fellowship all throughout the week. We have Bible study, prayer meetings, counseling, everything the church is supposed to be. We financially assist those in need. We support ministries we believe in. We witness to people and pray for healings and stimulate each other to good works. I’m not bragging or boasting, just being honest. We’re doing all of this with no church building to call home.

    Why is it that my complaints are always dismissed? Why is it always my fault because I’m some sort of rebel without a cause? Why has a pastor never once called on me to explain why I disappeared? Why are there so many blogs like this that misrepresent us? I offically gave up on Sunday morning church about a year ago, and I can’t say I miss it. I want nothing more than to find a group of nice people who study the Bible together with no egos or agendas. Why is that too much to ask???

    • Son on February 18, 2019 at 1:59 pm

      Amen, Hoosier, you NAILED it! Welcome to this blog and hope you can contribute through His Spirit.

      Peace, Blessing and Grace to you from our Lord and Savior Jesus.

      Dave

      p.s. – Carey, do you have time to read any of the comments on this thread?

    • Stu on February 18, 2019 at 2:17 pm

      I wonder if the churches at Galatia or Corinth, at Laodicea or in Thyatira, or any of them were better than they are today. I wish friend I could disagree with you, but yet “Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of Olives.” He threw the money changers out, and stood his ground amongst the hypocrites and brood of vipers. When Jesus saw sin, he did not remain quiet, but called it out. Yet, still, he loved and died for his Church; he did not abandon it. In Thyatira, where Jezebel encouraged its members into sexual perversion, what did Jesus say? Did he tell his followers to leave? Revelation 2:24-25 (NIV)
      “Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): Only hold on to what you have until I come.”

      Jesus did not want them to quit, but to overcome. We have become grumblers and complainers. It only took three days after the Red Sea was parted that thousands resumed grumbling—except for two: Joshua and Caleb. They were the only ones to make it. Are we only joyful when circumstances please us? No, I am not any greater than you. But I am twice as old, and by virtue of the fact I had to wait to get there, I am that much more patient. You see things you do not see when you are half as old. You experience things I would not dare have dreamt when I was young, like you. Don’t die from regret. If you have been given wisdom from God, share it with those who are without it. If you do not sin, cast the first stone. God will exalt the humble. Jesus paid it all so that you could have what he deserved. “For these light and momentary troubles have achieved for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.”

      • Son on February 18, 2019 at 2:57 pm

        Stu, that all sounds great. Let me share with you my experience with the church I just quit. When I first began attending, about two months ago, I felt edified by the pastor and his sermons, comfortable with the welcoming, warm and friendly congregation and a sense of satisfaction when I left a service. However, over the last two weeks, the worship music has become objectionable, led by the off-the-wall, egotistical man appointed by the pastor to conduct it, the pastor has preached nothing except for the giving of “tithes” and “offerings”, absolutely nothing inspirational or educational, in fact, the pastor’s sermons have begun sounding to me like “Prosperity Gospel”, which I adamantly oppose (when I hear the names, “Tammy Faye Baker” and “Joel Osteen” I start looking for a barf bag – in my mind, they are the absolute farthest thing from Jesus and His Apostles that I could ever imagine), the so-called “leaders” in the church are resentful of anyone who may walk more closely with Jesus than they do or who would provide a spiritual insight that they did not think of and the attendance at services are rapidly and incrementally dropping off.
        I called a “brother” from the church to ask him a question. I had met him while attending a study group session that he led. He couldn’t be bothered to call me back. I sent him a text, asking him to please call me. No response, so it was not like he didn’t know I wanted to speak with him. That was the final straw. God made it pretty plain to me that He didn’t want me to attend that church anymore. All they really wanted was whatever money they could bully me out of with their “tithing” and “offerings. The saw me as a dollar sign and that’s it! Tithing isn’t even scriptural, not in the NT. So, where does the pastor come off trying to justify “tithing” as a command of God? That was his approach.
        Sheesh! Gimme aa bucket for that bs.
        And you wonder why I don’t buy your rationale, Stu?
        Don’t get me wrong, please. I love and worship Jesus and I do the best I can to please Him as much as He enables me (I don’t take credit for any good works – all authority, every victory is HIS) But I try to avoid stumbling blocks in my life and church has become just that: A STUMBLING BLOCK.
        Thank you, dear, blessed, holy Lord Jesus, for never leaving or forsaking me and for always walking right beside me as I and my brethren in the Grace of Your Spilled Blood patiently, eagerly await your return to make everything right.
        MARANATHA, Lord Jesus! Come soon, Lord!

        Peace to you, brother Stu.

        Dave

        • HoosierConservative on February 18, 2019 at 3:39 pm

          I remember one church where we attended weeknight Bible study led by the pastor. In the middle of a particular lesson, someone asked a question the pastor couldn’t answer. I humbly offered an answer. I saw the room light up (including the pastor) when they realized I was right. The pastor never spoke to me directly again. There was no follow-up to that conversation, not one person in the room asking me out for coffee afterward. Not that I care to be popular, but there was no curiosity to see what else I knew.

          In churches these days you are punished if you display knowledge or maturity above the leadership team. You are marked as a know-it-all. If you want to get along with people, you have to play dumb.

          • Son on February 18, 2019 at 5:00 pm

            And that doth not be bull dung, brother Hoosier!
            ; )



          • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 10:38 am

            Amen, you hit the mark! The prince in the pulpit saw a king and was embarrassed. I can bet after that you became a threat to him. To use a worldly metaphor, the emperor had no clothes not because you told everyone he was naked but you showed everyone he was by being clothed. Well done.

            The whole of the earth groans and travails as a woman in labor. Everyone that reads this blog please here this. The groans and travails of the earth are not because of sin, wickedness, evil, or any other such force or action, not even the devil is the cause. The reason for the earths groaning and travailing is that it is awaiting the manifestation of the sons of God, Romans 8:19 The sons that are to be birthed out in the latter days to follow the one and only Son of God and they are be the light in this world, the bridge builders of His kingdom, dare I say it, the Melchizedek Priesthood for the end times.

            Just consider it…



      • HoosierConservative on February 18, 2019 at 3:25 pm

        Thank you for the reply. Even when Christians disagree, we should be able to have a dialog!

        The church of Ephesus self-destructed due to ravenous wolves in leadership. If we’re going to reference NT churches, let’s be fair and consider their fates. None of the 7 churches in Revelation exist today.. Jesus overturned the tables in the temple — then He spoke eight woes over Jersusalem, called the Pharisees children of the devil, and sent His church to the Gentiles. Let’s not pretend that Paul told us good things were in store for the end-times church. The NT doesn’t say a few plucky Joshuas can turn things around.

        There are only so many times you can overturn the tables. You think pastors want to hear my wisdom? No, that’s called “being critical”and “trying to control the pastor.” Even after serving long-term in churches, I’ve never been asked to lead, teach, advise, or counsel. My chair-setting and floor-mopping skills are in high demand, but not my opinions. I’ve had churches do surveys on the skills and talents of members, but then never do anything with the results. Why bother asking me what I do for a living if you’ve no intention of engaging me? Why ask for my home address if you will literally never visit my house? Why bother asking for feedback if you don’t want to change? “Toxic” members who question these things are welcome to go bless a church down the road.

        So my choices are either to sit in the back reading my Bible while no one cares to engage me (after puzzlingly interrogating me on my background), or stay home in my pajamas and fellowship with real friends. That isn’t a very hard choice. Instead of browbeating us to undertake heroic Jericho efforts, perhaps, just perhaps, the shepherds over the sheep should do their job.

    • Son on February 18, 2019 at 3:29 pm

      AMEN, Hoosier!

    • Disciple for the Lord Jesus Christ on February 18, 2019 at 3:44 pm

      Hi. Hope all is well my God bless the work your doing for his kingdom, just to comment I’m a spirit filled, believer a missionary for the Lord Jesus Christ maybe this will bring you peace and encourage you, the Lord pulled me from the church he only puts me in the Church building is to sit and observe and then give messages to the pastor to let him know where the Church is in error. Other then that, the Lord told me NO CHURCH! We are the Church! God Bless YOU
      and stay strong in the Lord!🙏🙌

      • HoosierConservative on February 18, 2019 at 3:52 pm

        If you sit in the back of a church and keep your mouth shut for a while, it doesn’t too long to spot the errors.

    • Todd on February 19, 2019 at 5:02 pm

      HoosierConservative,

      There are more like you out there, Take some comfort in knowing that others also feel what you feel and see what you see. There is a remnant people that He the Lord has set aside for these latter times. This that have been hidden away in the house of God eating and drinking the substance of Christ. They are those that hunger and thirst for Him more than their daily bread. We have no Father but God. There are no men, no institution or denomination that can lay claim to us as being their sons. This is why you don’t fit in anymore. It is the reason that you leave that building feeling the way you do.

      There is a priesthood that is being but already has been built that will show forth the praises of Him who called us out of the dark into His marvelous light. This priesthood is the reflection of the Father and the Son and it will be the counter balance to evil in these last days.

      I believe that you are on the right path dear brother. Keep pressing, keep pushing, keep tapping into that 3rd dimension and when the time comes you will do the works of your Father.

      • HoosierConservative on February 19, 2019 at 6:23 pm

        Thank you Todd. I continually grow as I learn more about our Savior. He is truly our light in the darkness! Oh how desperately we need Him.

        • Son on February 19, 2019 at 6:28 pm

          Amen, brother. What would we do without Jesus? We’d be totally hopeless! Thank you, Jesus, for coming to save us and thank you, Father, for giving us your own begotten Son Jesus! Amen.

          Dave

        • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 3:32 pm

          As the song said, “without Him I would be nothing, without Him I’d surely fail, without Him I would be drifting, like a ship without a sail.”

          We have no life without Him because we are dead and our lives are hidden with Christ in God. So the only true way to know who you are is to know who He is because you find your true life and identity in Him. This is why Paul’s lamentation was to know Him, the power of His resurrection, and the one most forget about, the fellowship of His suffering.

          You are so dead on, we need Him more than ever. That being said the Father purposely chose to need us to complete himself. He emptied out different parts of His personality and nature and then put it in His sons, (i.e. this would include women or daughters.) So when the God part you have connects with the God part I have He is connecting Himself to Himself thus fulfilling the high priestly prayer of Christ in John Chapter 17, Father make them one even as we are one. So there are none outside the ONE. All those that the Father gave to Him He kept. So too He, the Lord Jesus Christ has kept each of us and has made us one with the Father.

          What a beautiful savior we have and what a glorious privilege it is to know Him and those that carry a part of Him inside their temple. These are the true riches of Christ, to love one another as He has loved us is greater than all of the prosperity of all the churches, denomination, religions, and ministries combined. The cost of Him giving that to us was in drops of blood and not “denominations” of mammon. Interesting that money has denominations as well. Just a thought.

          Kind regards,

          Todd

          • Son on February 20, 2019 at 5:12 pm

            Good stuff, Todd!



          • HoosierConservative on February 20, 2019 at 6:26 pm

            Amen!!



    • Jennifer NoneYa on April 11, 2019 at 12:05 pm

      You pretty much summarized everything I’ve noticed, and then some. The “pastor” who wrote this self righteous slop is obviously in desperation mode. The church, at least the version that he wants to push for, is indeed dying, he’s in denial about that. All one has to do is look at the demographics data and see that there are alot more grey hairs than younguns in the seats and that trend is not about to reverse any time soon. And its not just a matter of location, either. Congregations are stagnating and dying in better populated areas just as they are in rural small towns. I live in an urban sprawl with plenty of young people, highscool, college age, young families. But I look around at our church and even on the busiest of Sundays, well over 70 percent in attendance is 55 or much older. It is dying in the West because it is indeed an institution in which many degenerates hide themselves, and where these princes of the pulpit, as you say, come to craft a career that most often requires little to no education. They often gain the status of CEO immediately, as they are not required to work their way up the ladder to get what they want. And it shows. The message is always the same recycled themes, and none of them are inspiring. It feels like showing up to a banquet hall expecting a sumptuous feast (for that is what church touts itself to be, spiritual nourishment) only to be served up dry toast. Then there’s the tax exempt perk, lol. Its a unique business model, that’s for sure, but doesn’t seem very biblical, and to me, not at all Godly. Jesus didn’t earn a paycheck for his ministry. I’m sure I’ll catch Hell for this (yes, pun intended). I usually do, from some indoctrinated jerk who will tell me its MY problem, something *I* have to fix about myself. LoL. Sorry, but I’ve come to a different conclusion. But whatever. It needs to be said. One last thing you didn’t mention though…….this whole modern “come as you are” attitude (its a very trendy catchphrase where I live) really tweeks me. Its a marketing ploy to get people who show up to nice restaraunts in ripped jeans, sandals, and refusing to take their ball caps off, to see church as more relatable to them. Just another fall in standards, as you said. I realize not everyone has a suit and tie or fancy dress, but anyone can do a bit better than bermuda shorts and spaghetti straps!

    • SweetPeaMcD on April 13, 2019 at 11:14 am

      Hoosier,

      This…

      “I have a group of Spirit-filled friends who join me in fellowship all throughout the week. We have Bible study, prayer meetings, counseling, everything the church is supposed to be. We financially assist those in need. We support ministries we believe in. We witness to people and pray for healings and stimulate each other to good works. I’m not bragging or boasting, just being honest. We’re doing all of this with no church building to call home.“

      is the church.

      Blessings to you and your small body of believers who are doing exactly what the early Christians did!

      • pradeep ivon on November 19, 2019 at 6:51 am

        pls tell and advise me about it I want to start such group How to do it and start off
        as we are in India and population of christian is very tiny but the problems as described in this article are exactly same here also with the mainline churches. Actually people are scared .of being outcast from church organization which is also responsible for rituals of life such as weddings and esp death as one friend told me the church pastor refused to officiate the burial formalities as the deceased was not member of a church

  69. stung!!! on February 18, 2019 at 11:12 am

    because satans not so secret society Nazis Within The Order have infiltrated it with their satanic slaves and dumb down Christians

    • HoosierConservative on February 18, 2019 at 1:35 pm

      It does indeed seem like the barbarians crashed the gate. Church is mostly a big party with a vaguely inspirational message to entertain the hordes of carnal prosperity seekers. Then the responsible Christians are left to pay the tab. No thanks.

      • Son on February 18, 2019 at 2:02 pm

        Agree. The church leaders want to own it. They need more “sheeples” to grow the pot.

  70. stung!!! on February 18, 2019 at 11:11 am

    Did anyone else hear the Fifth trumpet of God Almighty sound when oil wells were lit ablaze during “Operation Desert Storm”?
    During the Gulf War when all the oil wells were lit ablaze I was attacked by a demon on three separate occasions all at night. This is what happened. While I slept a demon flew through my window and attack me. The spirit inside me fought this demon briefly until I awoke. Then it made me take over. I leaped out of bed trying to defend myself. This demon was horrid and spun circles around me thrashing through my soul with its hands, then it left as fast as it came. The demon radiated from the pains associated with the abyss. He was like a coal pulled from the fire, with the pains of the abyss Rev 9, 3. This attack happened on three separate occasions as I have stated. all on separate nights during the time frame when the oil wells had been lit ablaze in the Middle East. The third time it attacked me however was different from the rest. As before the demon attacked me, but this time I had enough since to command it to leave in the name of Jesus Christ. What happened next is even more amazing. After commanding this demon to leave in the name of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit delivered me outside my bedroom into the hallway. The demon followed. We were brought into the presence of the Lord. The Demon stood to my left and grabbing my hand, it placed its tail on top of my left hand. It was the sting of the scorpion and it went like this. It sent waves of fire through my soul Rev 9, 10. The pain was so sever that I couldn’t scream. Unconditionally, I looked straight up and said “Father please help me”. The demon then left.
    This all happened after being seduced into trying transcendental meditation, which caused spiritual bondage to witchcraft / demonic forces. Maybe the spiritual bondage occurred after playing a Ouija board or Tarot cards as a young boy. I’m not quite sure. They appeared at that time just to be games, and were sold in the kids section at stores or at least the Ouija board was. I had a lot of spiritual warfare after participating in these so called “games”. What I am sure of is that prior to being attacked by this demon, I was forced to go through the Illuminati’s esoteric initiation performed through altered states of consciousness / transcendental meditation assisted with witchcraft / demonic forces. Why I say demonic forces is that I believe all witchcraft to be the powers of demons / the Devil. I was forced to go through said esoteric initiation through methods including witchcraft, demonology, and subversive acts of terrorism. The methods of witchcraft included mind control / manipulation, heart palpitations, witchcraft dreams causing sleep depravation, powerful visions, and many other forms. In said ceremony I was instructed to except the worship of one of their many “demonic gods”. They informed me that in excepting one of there gods I accepted them all. One of there gods was the Devil, another they named Jesus, but they appeared to have a demon for every occasion. They informed me through methods of telepathy , that in accepting the worship of one, I accepted them all. What better way to join all religions of the world together under one banner of 666 spiritually enslaving society?
    David Spengler of the United Nations says that all people must go through a esoteric initiation and worship Lucifer to enter the New Age of Enlightenment. Helen Blavatsky calls it a Christ like consciousness, universal mind set. Benjamin Cream states that after said initiation all its members will be able to hear ancient wisdom spoken telepathically at the same moment by ascended Masters. I knew nothing of this group at that time or there Luciferian agenda of a One World Government. Take a guess what method is used for this initiation? I bet you know now. Have you heard of the New Age Movement, or its affiliation with “Free” Masonry? Do you know what a unholy baptism is or the term Kundalini.
    To the best of my knowledge this is the method Satan’s Secret Society uses to distribute the “spiritual mark of the beast”, and cause spiritual captivity Revelation 13, 10. Have you received your spiritual stamp of acceptance? If so, did you take it on the forehead becoming a spiritual slave of evil, or on the right hand a servant of the Devil himself? Does this sound hard to believe? Here are a few scriptures giving in sight. Revelation 13, 10, If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity they will go . This is spiritual captivity to witchcraft / demonic forces. Naham 3, 4, who enslaved nations by her witchcraft. Revelation 18, 23, By your magic spell all nations were led astray. Hebrews 2:15 states by there fear of death they are held in bondage. Witchcraft / demonic powers are very real. Thank you Jesus for the Holy spirit and your Angels.
    There is a way out, but it has been difficult for me. Revelation 12, 11, Those who overcame, overcame by the blood of the lamb and the “word” of their testimony. They didn’t love their own lives so much as to shrink from death. Hebrews 2, 15, By their fear of death they are held in spiritual captivity / bondage. Satan’s “Secret” Society isn’t very secret anymore! It is like a giant octopus with many tentacles reaching far and wide.
    Here is the rest of the story. Three to four nights later the demon returned in the early am @ about 3am. He wasn’t alone, Satan / Apollyon and the demon’s twin brother was with him. They hovered in the air above the ground, before the olive tree in our back yard. I could see them as the spirit in me manifested them to me! Satan hovered in the middle while the demons were on either side of him. The demon on his left had been thrown into the lake of fire for what he did to me. He radiated like a coal pulled from the fire what seemed to be 15’x15′. He was lit up like a Christmas tree! Graciously yours baptized by fire the witness! Who will believe this testimony? God will be my witness! Located in California. Recommended information Fake truth Movement Exposed 1-12 on you tube. It has insight into who has received the spiritual stamp on there right hand.

    • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 19, 2019 at 1:03 pm

      Sorry, Nope nobody “heard” the “Fifth Trumpet” Of JUDGMENT Of God = it is still Yet Future, As God IS Not YET FINISHED
      With The “Current Age Of Amazing GRACE and MERCY, Until The Body Of CHRIST Is Taken Home To Heaven =

      THEN The JUDGMENT Of trumpets, bowls, and vials WILL Be Administered! Amen?

  71. Jeanne Bressler on February 16, 2019 at 12:44 am

    Our church sucks. Ego rules with the leaders as usual

    • Son on February 16, 2019 at 3:45 pm

      Turns out the pastor at the church we have been attending preaches “Prosperity Gospel.” Enrich “the church/pastor” at the expense of the sheeples/flock. Churches depend upon easily brainwashed sheeples to enrich them. If they build a huge church and few attend services, they become desperate and resort to bashing the few member of their congregation with “biblical requirements” of donating “tithes” and “offerings”, as though one can appease and please God through giving money. What a scam. God calls those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.
      John 4:23
      “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.”
      God is not seeking to deprive us of our livelihood, although He tells us not to covet money and material possessions, Amen. We contribute to God with our word and our testimony and also His prompting in our hearts. If God prompts us to help our brethren, with money, with comfort, with companionship, with gospel, we should obey His prompting. That is what I believe is Truth.
      Thanks, Fessdo, for tipping me off on the church scam. We are saved ONLY BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS. God bless you brother Fessdo, for emphasizing this fact to me. I believe that God has opened my eyes to great truth in this phase of my life here on Earth.
      An admonition to those who are susceptible to being victimized by “Prosperity Preachers”:
      Matthew 7:15
      “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
      If your preacher/pastor/priest told you that God wants you to jump off a cliff and leave your money to his church for you to be saved, would you jump to your death?
      God gave us common sense. Obey The Holy Spirit, not greedy, ravenous men who pose in sheep’s clothing for their own gain.
      Matthew 10:16
      “Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.”

      God’s Peace and Blessing to my true brethren.

      Dave

      • Son on February 16, 2019 at 3:56 pm

        Another thing.
        John 10:27
        “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”
        If, in your heart, you don’t recognize who is asking you to tithe, offer, donate your money as being the voice of our Lord Jesus, you are probably being scammed by mortal men. Jesus speaks to our hearts as our holy shepherd.
        And, never forget what our Lord told us regarding salvation and true faith, which is The Gift of God to us:
        Matthew 22:14
        “For many are called, but few are chosen.”
        The chosen few are saved only by The Blood of The Holy Lamb. Jesus Is The Lord! Amen.
        Thanks, brother Fessdo, for helping me with gaining this insight and awareness and thanks, Jesus, for my dear brother Fessdo.

        Dave

        Dave

        • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 17, 2019 at 2:17 pm

          Greetings, Grace And Peace In The Precious Name Of The LORD JESUS CHRIST.

          Discovered there is a “problem” at your “church” where you enjoy “fellowship” with other like-minded (SAVED By The Precious BLOOD Of God, According To The GRACE Of our ONLY SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST!) believers!?

          Now what do you do??:

          (1) the leaders are wrong, But STAY because you “ENJOY” fellowship with “other” members (not leaders)?
          a) And, KEEP “giving money,” because you love The LORD and do it For HIM, regardless of “how the leaders Misuse it?
          b) Stay, But STOP “giving money,” because you “enjoy fellowship,” And, Feel Guilty because you are now “disobedient” to the LORD you love?

          (2) STAY, because the leaders Are Wrong, BUT Can Be Corrected “From The Inside” + a) or b) above?

          (3) Question the leaders with your “concern,” and find out IF the have a BIBLICAL “solution” to the “problem!”
          a) IF “Solved” satisfactorily (2 Timothy 2:15!), then STAY
          b) IF UNsatisfactorily (UNclean!), THEN, loving your LORD, obey God Who Commands!:

          “Wherefore Come Out from among them, and be ye Separate, Saith The LORD, And touch not the unclean thing; and I Will Receive you, And Will Be A Father Unto you, and ye Shall Be MY sons and daughters, Saith The LORD Almighty!” (2 Corinthians 6 : 17!)?

          God Bless ALL Very RICHLY In HIS Preserved, Pure And HOLY Word (KJB!)

          brother Chris
          PS. IF you wish to hear my own “testimony” of LEAVING (with No regrets!) 29 years ago, let me know…

          • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 17, 2019 at 2:22 pm

            oops “imperfect” ERROR = IF THEY (leaders!) have a BIBLICAL “solution!”

            sorry! my bad 🙁

            bro Chris



          • Son on February 17, 2019 at 2:30 pm

            bro Chris, thanks for your considered and blessed advice regarding the church I have rejected. Certain events transpired that I interpreted, through His Charity and Grace unto me, to convict me that it was NOT God’s Will for me to attend that church anymore. This morning, I realized that I could never be friends with the pastor or church leaders because they see themselves as being better than I am, closer to God and more favored by God than I am, more knowledgeable and accomplished in their service to God than I am. How can one be friends with someone who thinks they are superior to you? You can’t. This is what God has pointed out to me.
            Of course, I would appreciate anything you would share with me about your experiences with church, His guidance to you, etc. I have much to learn.

            Peace, Grace and Blessing to you from His humble, unworthy, grateful servant,

            Dave



          • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 17, 2019 at 9:35 pm

            Grace And Peace, Dearest Brother (By HIS BLOOD!) Dave/Sister Jeanne. Appreciate your love for the LORD, this wonderful fellowship sharing with you, And your Great Desire to “Find Out,” In HIS Good Time! What God Has For you, Concerning what you are “clueless” about. Praying Hopefully, that what I can “help” with, will be Encouraging to ya’ll!

            Did you know? Praise God, we have ALL “Been Made ‘worthy’!”
            According To HIS Awesome SCRIPTURES! Amen?:

            “Giving thanks unto The Father, Which Hath Made us meet [ WORTHY! ] to
            be partakers of the inheritance of the saints In Light: Who Hath
            Delivered us From the power of darkness, and Hath Translated us Into The
            Kingdom Of HIS Dear SON: In WHOM we Have Redemption Through HIS BLOOD, Even The FORGIVENESS of sins!” Amen, And AMEN!

            (I would Also love {A Good story!} to hear/”listen” to your “personal
            testimony” of God’s GRACE/Salvation Upon Dave/Jeanne! IF you “wish!”),
            Now, a little about me:

            before LEAVING “churcheS” = grew up Roman catholic, Never receiving
            “spiritual help,” only knowing “religiously About” God, The Father, And
            HIS SON, JESUS, And The Holy Spirit, slowly tapered off going, until age
            27:

            THEN, Praise the LORD for my NEW “spiritual” BIRTH day! Amen?:
            I was alone at home (wife/kids “out” somewhere), reading the “filthy
            gossip” magazine, National Enquirer (Does God “Use the wicked” To Do HIS
            Will? you Betcha! remember “Pharaoh in Egypt”?):

            There was a FULL-PAGE Ad offering booklets on Heaven, Hell, And Home
            Life! And they were FREE, just call a 1-800 number! I was Always an avid
            “reader,” so i said, “self, why not? i can check these out, too, for FREE!” So, i
            called, and the kind lady took my order, AND then asked me this
            “shocking” question!:

            IF you DIED TONIGHT, are you Absolutely SURE you would go to heaven?

            Of course, the truthful answer was “No!” I “admitted I WAS a SINNER!” She shared JESUS CHRIST, HIS Death, BLOOD, And Resurrection for Forgiveness of my sin, And ETERNAL Life With HIM! Then, because I did NOT “know” what to pray, she “helped” me, right on the phone! IMMEDIATELY I “knew” in my heart and soul, “something WAS Different!”##

            (“Critics/liars COMPLAIN = NO ONE can “pray” and be saved, But I “know” of at LEAST TWO who have = the “humble” publican in Luke 18:13! and me! he was “Saved” AFTER “praying God, Be Merciful To me, a sinner,” By God’s Own Words: “went down to his house JUSTIFIED!” AND i “Was JUSTIFIED By God” Before “hanging up the phone!!!” {Of course, i “prayed” what I Already “believed” IN “my heart!” (Romans 10:10-11! NO “shame!”} Amen, and AMEN!!

            Praise HIM For Ever And EVER! Now, “churcheS” i went to as a NEW-Born
            “babe In CHRIST!”

            While on vacation, “sharing” good news, a “relative-out-Law” suggested
            for me to talk to her “minister” – this was church of christ, they
            showed me a few of “their verses,” and i said ok, i “should obey and be
            water baptized, As a “babe,” not “knowing” at THAT TIME it was for “regeneration immersion,” they “tried” to “push” me to do it IMMEDIATELY, but i said nah, Next Sunday is fine 🙂 Got “dunked,” after my “baby” declaration of “being glad i was on the ‘winning’ side.” (LITTLE did I “know” what i would “know LATER!” But, vacation was over, and, Never went back!

            Later, back home, attended a “reformed” group, and left due to
            NON-Scriptural (they Even ADMITTED this, saying it was THEIR “tradition” of) “infant sprinkling.” {And all the while, as a “Very hungry baby,” i devoured ALL the “sermonized” literature I received, listened to the radio, And watched “religious” TV! = Did “learn” a LOT! [But, Most of it was “Confusing!”] }

            Next, (“Growing In GRACE!) in IFB (to be fair, they do preach The Gospel Of GRACE!), which, they teach, one can “join membership” by NON-regeneration “obedience of immersion in water,” (their “denominational tradition”?), And After going THREE times a week, and driving a bus for kids, singing in the choir, etc. etc, after 8 years, “left” because of the following TWO “studies”:

            (1) supposed “Bible study” By mail, with of all people, AGAIN, the church
            of Christ, the mean and angry “teacher,” calling me names and stuff,
            But he did “ask” ONE thought-for-food provoking/pointed question:
            “How come YOU BAPTISTS teach TWO baptismS when Paul says “There is Only ONE!” (Ephesians 4:5!). had to STOP AND THINK about that one…

            (2a) Found some “Bible? study” material, while serving/helping the last IFB church i attended – i was helping the “associate” pastor with Saturday night bulletins for the “next day.” I decided to “browse” the pastor’s library and chose THREE books that seemed like they “Might Be worthwhile to READ/study/be fed?” Anyways, when we showed up for Sunday worship, i “fessed up” what i had “borrowed,” and the pastor informed me that he “did Not LOAN out his books!” (later found out “some were ‘Poison!'”) WHEW!

            (2b) Oh, ok, NOW i know (don’t “borrow poison,”) but I was already reading the “Healthy medicinal” study “Baptism And The BIBLE! (CR Stam),” about “baptism being an “Identification!'” I had to “know” MORE, so now WHAT? I loved The LORD, and asked HIM to help me “understand” this NEW Information I had NEVER heard before! So, I skipped Sunday night, skipped Again Wednesday night, and FINISHED reading/making NOTES Of ALL The Scriptures About This “IDENTIFICATION!” Next Sunday, went to “church” returning his “precious poisonous” {p.p. :)} books to the pastor.

            (2c) Now what? I prayed for a couple of weeks, reviewing/thinking/considering These Scriptures That I had Never Considered Before, In “God’s Context,” About ONE “Spiritual Baptism!” So, now with a question, I went to see the pastor. He said “he appreciated” that I came to him with my question
            about: Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4; 1
            Corinthians 12:13!:

            “Are ALL Of These about God’s ONE Baptism For us, Today, Under GRACE, In A “Spiritual Context”? His “answer” was “YES, they Are “Spiritual,”…

            …BUT, (then he “Added”): “we have to ‘remember water’ baptism.” (we do?)
            So, then i went home, still wondering/contemplating/mulling ALL this
            “experience” over in my mind, asking the LORD’s “HELP!” Please…

            (2d) So, a couple of more weeks go by, and I finally “made a simple ‘math’ decision.” (i believe i am “fairly good at math, And “common sense!” Amen?) How is TWO “baptismS,” water baptism PLUS Holy Spirit Baptism EQUAL TO: “ONE Baptism!” So, I went on With my “journey” With God And HIS Word Above “ALL Else!” And, “left” the IFB “church.” {Embarking into a NEW “Encouraging journey” With 2 Timothy 2:15! “Changing” ALL my “Confusion/seeming Contradictions” Into HIS Wonderful “Light!!”}
            {is this a “MINOR” Issue?}…

            (Please “be advised” the “baptist” people {“good fellowship!”} DID love us Very Much, bringing food and helping us when {my second} wife was having an hysterectomy and our “BEAUTIFUL-Angel-of-a-blind” daughter was taken “Cesarean!” Thank God! – That was 29 years ago!):

            …continuing With “leaving church” About “God’s MAJOR Doctrine!”:
            A couple of weeks later, the pastor and a couple of others came by, “concerned” we were not “attending” any more. I explained my “decision,” And (here comes “poison”) he explains: “Well, in OUR “fellowship group {baptist!},” we DO NOT “AGREE” with the man whose “book” you studied!
            After “considering his statement” I thought “that might not be a very good {foolish?} STATEMENT to make,” because I Already “knew” That, “According To The Pure, Preserved, And HOLY Scriptures (KJB!):”

            “JESUS Came To HIS OWN (With Truth!), And they RECEIVED HIM NOT!” (John 1:11!) And we BOTH know “what THEY DID To HIM! Right bro/sis Dave/Jeanne?

            ## “What” was “Different”? After “studying” The Scriptures (I was “taught” From The Beginning, to STAY With, Above ALL Else!), I Found out I HAD:

            “…The PEACE Of God, Which Passeth all understanding, Shall Keep your hearts and minds Through CHRIST JESUS!” (Philippians 4:7!)
            {And, THAT “PEACE” has been ONE “Constant!” among Many “changes” in my life for 40 Years!} Praise HIM For Ever And EVER!!!

            {BLOOD!} Brother/Sister: Thanks So Much For Being Marvelous “listeners!”
            Dave/Jeanne, May God RICHLY Bless you as you “embark” on your Wonderful Journey With HIM!

            bro Chris



          • Son on February 18, 2019 at 1:25 pm

            Grace, Peace and Blessing from our Lord and Savior Jesus unto you, bro Chris. Thank you for sharing your testimony with Jeanne and me. Here is one of my favorite scriptures:
            1 Corinthians 8:2
            “And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.”
            I am thankful for The Charity, Mercy and Grace our Lord Jesus showed unto me in filling me with His Holy Spirit and thereby saving my soul for eternity. I realize I had nothing to do with my salvation but to ask Him earnestly, from the depths of my heart and soul, to please help me believe He is the Lord and He did that. Jesus did it all for me and you and Jeanne and everyone who can say, “Jesus Is The Lord”.
            Jesus and only Jesus completed the work necessary for our salvation unto eternal life in His Kingdom. Take anyone you like for an example, but if they are mortal men, such as we are, they don’t have
            “all the answers”. Many church leaders pose as if they know everything and are never wrong. These church leaders feel they need to own it, have complete authority and control over their “flock”. So, back to the subject of this blog, “Why people are turning away from church”, that is my reason. If Jesus reveals a truth to me, in His Holy Spirit, I listen and believe what He tells me. When mortal men tell me I’m wrong and Jesus has told me what they think is “wrong”, I reject the counsel of those mortal men, not the truth that Jesus has given to me. I admit that, in the grand scheme of life on earth and afterwards, I know nothing except that Jesus Is The Lord. As far as I’m concerned, everything else is strictly speculation on our part. As His Spirit prompts me, I share what He tells me with others, some believers in Him, some not. I no longer try to beat a non-believer over the head with a bible, for “A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still”, as my daddy used to say. I am just waiting on Jesus.
            I don’t need stumbling blocks in my life. That is why I am leaving church.

            Stay blessed, bro Chris. Thanks for your fellowship. Please feel free to share fellowship anytime, my brother.!

            Dave



          • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 11:19 am

            Very well put. Thank God we have people like you that sees the problem and informs others. Thank you for being a voice in the wilderness.



  72. Obscra on February 15, 2019 at 8:14 am

    Jesus says you can judge a tree by the fruit it bears. What fruit has the Christian church been producing? Bigotry? Hate? Do they use their funds to help those in need? Do you remember Jesus’s advice to the rich man? He told him that to follow him he must sell all of his wealth and donate that money to the poor. The problem is many churches are not lead by the word of God, but by malignant narcissists who do not even believe.

  73. Krisu on February 14, 2019 at 4:24 am

    “I completely understand why a growing number of people are bailing on church.”

    No, you don’t understand. As witnessed by many comments.

    The Heavenly Church by Christ is in Heaven. It may have nothing to do with these social gatherings called churches.

    The mundane churches are made by men, for men, not by God or for God.

    The abuse that’s been going on in churches is not from God, but from Satan. So every church that keeps on abusing its members is doing the will of Satan. That “men are imperfect” is no excuse.

    • Jeanne Bressler on February 14, 2019 at 7:41 pm

      Wow, that’s a tough subject, Krisu. “The Church” conducted The Spanish Inquisition and also The Crusades, similar to the Jihad campaign conducted by Islam. Yes, that subject needs examination, for sure.
      Jeanne

      • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 17, 2019 at 2:32 pm

        Dear Jeanne. Disagree, The “CHURCH, The Body Of CHRIST, Whose “members” Have Been Washed In The Precious BLOOD Of The LORD JESUS CHRIST,’ did no such Atrocity. The ROMAN “church,”
        believing they were serving God, DID DO SO, BUT JESUS Said:

        “Yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service!
        And these things will they do unto you, because they have NOT KNOWN THE FATHER, NOR ME!”
        (John 16;2-3 KJB!)

        Be well!

        bro Chris

      • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 11:26 am

        Let us go to the depths and ask this question. Is God the Father a Christian?

        • Son on February 20, 2019 at 12:19 pm

          Unfortunately, my wife Jeanne is neither qualified nor interested in pursuing her involvement on this thread. I tried to recruit my friend and brother Fessdo to engage her to participate, but that did not bear any fruit.
          Speaking for myself, Todd, what a strange question you have asked! God The Father raised Christ from the dead.
          Can you give God The Father a moniker such as “Christian”? With my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, I would ask you (hope you can laugh at this), was Haile Selassie a Rastafarian?

          Peace to you, bro

          Dave

          • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 11:57 pm

            That did bring a smile to my face. The point of the question was to raise the subject of how we categorize and label people, and yes even God. We see this in politics which unfortunately is a mirror image of the church system. Religion and politics brothers in arms from the beginning of both institutions.

            This is my real point on this. I believe that everything comes down to identity. To know Him, His identity. To know self, identity. To discern both good and evil, indentity. It’s
            inescapeable. It is a question that we should all ask of ourselves. Who are you? What label are you willling to accept as being an identifier as to just who you are? What indoctrinated glasses skew your view of who He really is? That is my greatest fear. He came to His own and His own received Him not. The guys that knew the Hebrew and study continually about the coming Messiah did not know that He was walking in their modest. Why, because of your tradition you made Christ who is THE WORD of God of no effect. Most of us on this blog have come from a religious background and we carry that indoctrination inside of us. Being able to die to that is a tough thing to do. So the question while rehrorical is meant to provoke these thoughts about how we define people and God by our particular language of thought when evaluating indentities.

            Sorry if there are spelling errors I any of my repsonsss but it is late and I am too tired to use spell check. Thank God you all will forgive my as the Father would do.

            Ciao



          • Son on February 21, 2019 at 1:33 am

            The world knew Him not, but what can be more perfectly descriptive of our Lord and Savior Jesus than the prophecy of Isaiah?
            ISAIAH 53
            “Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
            “For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”

            All blessing, honor, glory and power to our precious Lord and Savior Jesus!

            God bless you, brother Todd.

            Dave



  74. Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 12, 2019 at 8:54 pm

    Grace And Peace, Dave. Concerning “Now, more than ever, the world needs Christian working together humbly under Christ to lead people into a growing relationship with him, in whatever innovate and fresh forms that takes. The church is not dead.” Do we “agree”?:

    The Church, as a whole, is spiritually weak/Severely Divided. I highly “doubt” that this will be soon “Corrected” with “innovative and fresh forms.” How about “Old-fashioned” obedience
    to God’s HOLY Word, Especially “recognizing” the “UNIQUE” apostleship of Paul (whom
    God “CHOSE” to be the “administrator” of GRACE! { similar to Moses, prophets, And HIS Twelve “chosen” to “administer” The LAW? } Amen?

    Question about what, imho, is THE MAIN “Divider” of “denominations!:

    Does God REQUIRE “water” baptism, Today, Under GRACE? (this is “my reason” for “leaving” ALL of the “MainSTREAM” watered-down gospel denominations. Was this Valid?)

    Just find the “church of you choice,” like it, ask to “join in membership,” and what happens?:
    They ask you: Have you been {water} baptized (“according to our particular “”tradition”””)?
    (“problem”? Is it “SINGLE” immersion in the “Name of JESUS,” or Is it TRIPLE immersion in the “Name of the Father, Son, And Holy Ghost”? does “Anybody SEE” Any “Problem”???)

    Now, IF you “haven’t” done it “right (THEIR way!), let’s have a DO OVER! Is That Scriptural???

    How about this: Is Not our “fellowship with ONE Another” BASED On our “Mutual faith!* In our LORD And Saviour, JESUS CHRIST? Rather than UNScriptural “traditions”???

    Is God’s “Answer” then, “NO!” water is NOT required? As, According To SCRIPTURE, There Is Only ONE Baptism, Under GRACE! (Ephesians 4 : 5; Colossians 2 : 12; Galatians 3 : 27; Romans 6 : 3-4; 1 Corinthians 12 : 13!)

    Or, maybe i am just an “heretic”?

    Just askin’…

    • Son on February 12, 2019 at 11:58 pm

      bro Chris,
      I don’t have any answers to your questions. I just know that somehow, someway, Jesus keeps me attached to His Holy Spirit, and I am completely thankful and humble concerning that. He keeps me hanging on, with all of the confusion and noise that surrounds our faith, His Gift to us.
      Hebrews 13:5
      ” Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.”
      I pray that you and all of my brethren in Him will stay connected, through His Grace and Mercy toward us.
      The enemy is trying hard to separate us from one another and only God can give us the inspiration and strength to resist and stay strong in our faith and hope.
      I don’t have all the answers, bro. Only God has the answers and I wait on Him to reveal them to me.
      In the meantime, I pray every night, “Maranatha, dear Lord Jesus. Come back soon, Lord, tonight if it might be your Will. Rapture us into the air and bring us to your kingdom of Heaven to spend all of eternity worshipping, serving, obeying, blessing and glorifying you and our Holy Father and to live in peace, harmony, bliss and ecstasy with the holy angels and our beloved brethren in your chosen flock.”
      Believe on Jesus, bro and be saved upon the faith He gives you. Observe not the customs of men, but serve God through His Holy Word, Jesus. That’s really about all I can tell you. I am saves because Jesus told me and tells me that I am. I am as clueless as you, other than The Grace of Jesus.

      Peace to you, bro. Feel free to share fellowship and communion with me anytime. There are other blessed brethren on this forum, such as Fessdo, Stu and Abraham, if you seek fellowship and, perhaps, guidance. I’m sure they would respond to your reaching out to them.

      In the spirit of our only Lord, Savior and blessed God Jesus.

      Dave

      • Son on February 13, 2019 at 11:27 am

        Titus 3:5 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;”
        Romans 10:9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
        Romans 9:15
        “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
        What do YOU believe? Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior? Can you say, “Jesus Is The Lord”?
        1 Corinthians 12:3
        “Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”
        You won’t be saved by the customs of men. Only God can save you, and that’s only if He chooses to do so. Your only guarantee is the blood and the promise of Jesus.

        Dave

      • Jeanne Bressler on February 14, 2019 at 7:37 pm

        Fessdo, I want you to give me your guidance as you do for my husband, “Son”, also known to you as Dave. My husband had spoken very highly of you as an agent of Jesus.
        Thank you for considering me in your spiritual insights.
        Jeanne

        • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 15, 2019 at 11:31 am

          Grace And Peace, my dearest brother Dave. Thank you for your warm welcome, kind, and “truthful” response. (“I don’t have answers to your questions.”) Seems as if some on this thread are having a Great Fellowship with each other! That is Very Encouraging Indeed, as I believe That Is What CHRIST, The ONE HEAD Of HIS Heavenly Church, Desires for ALL of HIS “members!” (still on this earth). Amen?

          For “Being CONNECTED To God,” And to “each other,” Hebrews 13:5 Is Really Good – And, I Also always go by These Wonderful Scriptures!:

          (1) We (ALL “Saved” members) Were “Identified With” (Baptized Into) The Heavenly Body Of CHRIST, Upon God Giving us our New Birth, By HIS Amazing GRACE! (Ephesians 2:8-9, 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13!) Amen?

          (2) That ONE (Holy) Spirit That “ID’d” us (“