A Response To Christians Who Are Done With Church

You hear it all the time.

I’m done with church.

I don’t really need to go to church…my relationship with God is personal.

I’ve had it with organized religion.

The church is a man-made invention, not God’s idea.

I completely understand why a growing number of people are bailing on church. Even people who used to lead in the church often stop attending (here are 9 reasons why church leaders do that).

We’ve spent a lot of time working through the issue of declining church attendance (and growing disillusionment with the church) on this blog and in my leadership podcast. (For a summary of the issues, here’s a piece on the 10 reasons even committed church attenders are attending church less often).

I get it.

The church is far from perfect. Life is complex. There are growing options. And the post-modern mind distrusts most things organized or institutional.

But as trendy as the idea of writing off the church may be, it’s a mistake.

While writing off the church passes as sophisticated thinking, it’s actually the opposite; what if it’s a simplistic and even reductionistic line of thinking that leads nowhere constructive?

The church isn’t even biblical, is it?

People argue the idea of church isn’t even biblical.

So let’s start with the basics.

First if you’re a Christian, church is not something you go to. It’s something you are.

You can’t disassociate from church as a Christian anymore than you can disassociate from humanity as a person.

You don’t go to church. You are the church.

Second, the church was not a human invention. Half-reading the New Testament with one eye closed will still lead you to the inescapable conclusion that the church was God’s idea.

In fact, most of the New Testament is not about the teachings of Jesus. It’s about the work of the church that Jesus initiated and ordained. I won’t fill this post with scripture verses that prove my point, because, quite frankly, you’d have to get rid of the majority of the New Testament to argue that the church was a parenthetical, made-up organization.

If you want to get rid of the church, you also need to get rid of Jesus.

You can’t have one without the other.

Maybe what bothers you should actually amaze you

I understand that the idea of the church being imperfect makes some people despair.

But rather than making us despair, the fact that Jesus started the church with imperfect people should make us marvel at God’s incredible grace.

That God would use ordinary, broken human beings as vessels of his grace, and delight in it is awe-inspiring. He’s proud of how his grace is beating through your imperfect-but-redeemed life and through the church (have you ever read Ephesians 3: 10-11?).

The idea that God would use you and me is pretty amazing. He had other options.

He could have spoken to the world directly, but instead chose to use broken people to showcase his grace to a world in need of redemption.

For sure, community is messy.

People sin. Leaders are sinful.

Most of the New Testament is not a story of an idealized church where everything worked perfectly all the time (just read 1 Corinthians any time you’re frustrated with your church).

Most of the New Testament is a story of Jesus using his followers to spread his love in spite of themselves and as they overcome obstacle after obstacle.

The fact that Christ uses flawed people to accomplish his work on earth is actually a sign of his grace, not a sign of his absence.

The church’s story, as twisted as it gets at times, is a beautiful story of God’s grace, God’s power and God’s redemption.

So, by the way, is your life, which reflects the story of the church more than you would want to admit.

The church gives the world a front row seat to the grace of God.

The ultimate consumerism isn’t going to church…it’s walking away from it

People criticize the church today as being consumeristic. And to some extent, churches cater to consumerism—often to our detriment. I agree that consumerism is a problem for Christianity.

But ironically, much of the dialogue about why people are done with church pushes people deeper into Christian consumerism than it pushes them into deeper discipleship: Here I am, all alone, worshipping God on my schedule when it’s convenient for me.

Listening to a podcast of your favourite preacher while you’re at the gym or on the back deck and pushing three of your favourite worship songs through your ear buds does not make you a more passionate Christ follower.

It usually makes you a less effective one.

Disconnecting yourself from community is actually less faithful than connecting yourself to a flawed community.

If you think the church today isn’t enough (and arguably, we need to reform it), then do what the early Christians did.

If you want a more biblical church…don’t gather weekly, gather daily. Before dawn.

Get up before the sun rises to pray together with other Christians before you go to work. Pool your possessions. Don’t claim anything as your own.

Be willing to lose your job, your home, your family and even your life because you follow Jesus.

Then you’ll be more authentic.

And notice that the early church did indeed gather. 

Gathering always leads to some form of organizing.

To pretend the church doesn’t need to be organized is as logical arguing that society doesn’t need to be organized.

Because community is inevitable, organization is inevitable.

Our ability to organize and to accomplish more together than we can alone is one of the crowning achievements of humanity, and our ability to work together makes Christian effort far more effective. 

It’s also part of God’s design for how we should interact while we’re on this planet. Come to think of it, heaven is a community too.

The only one who wants us to believe that we are better off alone is our enemy.

If you really think about it, it’s actually a very clever tactic.

The church has helped even those who resent the church

Finally, if you’re reading this article and you have any modicum of faith in Jesus, may I suggest your faith is actually the result of the mission of the church.

Very few people come to know Jesus because he appears to them supernaturally when they are alone and calls them by name.

Does that ever happen? Sure. But not to 99.9% of us.

Almost all of us who follow Jesus have had our lives changed by a flawed body called the church that Jesus so passionately loves and calls his own.

Think about that.

We need more church

Do we need more churches? Yes.

Do we need more humble churches? We do.

Do you we need authentic, transparent leadership? Absolutely.

Does the church need to change? Without a doubt.

The church needs continual reformation and transformation.

So what will the future look like?

Will we gather in quite the way we do today in the future? In some ways yes; in others, no.

Hopefully we gather more frequently and work through our differences at a deeper level and impact our communities more powerfully.

These two posts offer 10 predictions about future church attendance and 11 traits of churches that will impact the future.

But regardless of how the church gathers in the future, we will gather…we need to gather.

We Christians need each other, probably now more than ever.

And even if you don’t think you need other Christians, I promise you you do, and so does our world.

Now, more than ever, the world needs Christian working together humbly under Christ to lead people into a growing relationship with him, in whatever innovate and fresh forms that takes.

The church is not dead.

Far from it.

Maybe it’s just beginning to take shape for a brand new era that desperately needs it.

A Response To Christians Who Are Done With Church

1,969 Comments

  1. Miss B on September 22, 2021 at 8:04 pm

    1. Not all churches are the same.
    2. The reality is, some churches do teach God’s truth, some are 50% in truth and 50% in error, some are completely apostate. It could be that most believers who do not want to attend a church where they have experienced apostasy in their congregation.

    I personally was never transformed by attending a church. But it did expand my social network. I made great friends for life. I have absolutely nothing against “The Church”. I love large churches, I love huge corporate worship, prayer, conferences, other gatherings. I cannot deny that I had awesome fun at Christian conferences. But I had to do something about my personal growth with the LORD. Therefore, I took time off from church meetings on three counts. I noticed profound transformation each time I took time off from physically attending a church congregation. I am now in the third count. Though I do miss church, I was far too distracted by things that do not purify the soul and do not produce divine virtues and do not build an atmosphere of deep intimacy with God and do not lead to eternal life. I take full responsibility for this.

    I decided to pray and study the Word of God at home. I have noticed the exponential growth in my life. I listen to an excellent biblical apostolic and prophetic teacher. At the end of the equation, if we cannot find what we need to keep growing in our personal relationship with God, it is our responsibility to do something about it. This is what I decided to do 15 years ago.

    COVID-19 has further distanced many believers from church gatherings. Most believers are attending church on live streams, mid-week fellowship on the Internet, or in very small groups. This virus has affected the whole world.

    I hope that you all find a way to remain in the presence of the LORD.

    Blessings.

  2. Edward Tilley on September 19, 2021 at 4:41 am

    Great article – with a lot of comments already so I will be brief.

    I am the econometric scientist who updated the Bible this year – see “The Book” – based on evidence-based science, surveys and sophisticated econometric data science; and here is what I can add:

    1. Scientific – The Bible explained lessons-learned from observation of the successes and failures of 3,000 years of civilizations. Because of this, it was absolutely scientific; and further, the latest quantitative science confirms that its advice is usually spot-on. Say “Hey Google, what did the bible say about lying?”, or Family Values, or Neighbours; and you will hear a scientifically-validatable answer near-every time.

    2. Religion – the Bible explained its lessons in storytelling that made use of belief-based learning and “magic” to incent people to quickly adopt behaviours and core values that assured the success of communities. What choice did it have as people were illiterate and uneducated 1700 years ago?

    3. Important – the Bible is important, as are empathetic community churches and weekly services. Religions that follow the Bible’s advice to be servants of the people are essential; and, Religions that are systemically unempathetic and serve themselves – are the bain of mankind who prey on belief-based learners. The Bible, in Revelation, warns to not call yourself an economic power (Right, Left, WEF, the Beast, etc.) and thereafter vote for your own collapse

    4. Secular Theory – is every bit as harmful as was medieval religions that killed and suppressed people for 1000-years. Respect of others is essential, but Feminism (anti-family-values) literally kills whole populations at a rate of 30% every 20-years – in 64 of 70 high-income nations today; and Wealth theory (Micro and Macroeconomics training) is failed economic theory that collapses 62% of 207 economies worldwide (a chimpanzee gets it right 50% of the time). For just two examples.

    5. Evidence-based critical thought – similar to teaching core values to children with “Santa Clause”, we want to be able to step freely into and out of metaphors when appropriate. As belief-based thinker we can easily be conned into aligning with economic powers that collapse us all.

    Church and community is important, the Bible is important, faith and the literal interpretation of metaphors ? less so, but education that teaches Systemic Empathy (Good), Respect, and human and social advance is essential. BTW – God is Good, Jesus is the Golden Rule (Respect of others), and the Holy Spirit is human advance and creation.

  3. Steve on September 5, 2021 at 1:55 pm

    Church is too political nowdays, more of a branch of the Republican Party and a cynical fundraising organization disseminating conspiracy theory instead of the Words of Jesus and the Father. As Christians we need to be where Christ was, among the sick, the sinners, the poor, the homeless, those without hope. We shouldn’t be in a lavish million dollar building exulting in how much better we are than the enemies outside.

    • Sally on September 9, 2021 at 6:49 pm

      Some is true but as Christians and church goers we will encounter what’s going on in our society and culture. Not all church goers will be pleased with what they see and hear. Keep an open and playful mind and we all can learn something.

      • Edward Tilley on September 19, 2021 at 4:02 am

        The Bible is like an Owner’s Manual that had to use storytelling to explain how to build a successful society.

  4. F.Luna on August 1, 2021 at 8:51 am

    people think church is renting a building, so they can gather once or twice a week…most churches from the book of Acts used to gather in their homes…
    people look at their pastors, the same way Catholics look their “fathers”, some even worship them!
    People think pastors MUST come from a seminary. I have 20 years as a believer, and I have not read a single verse about a “seminary” in the scriptures. In fact, in my experience as a believer, I have noticed these pastors look more like the “hired” one at the gospels…they don’t care for the cheap, they just care for their name and ministry! back in 2008, during the resection, I lost everything and I was sleeping in the streets….the Pastor of the church I was attending for years, instead of opening his home for me (One of the requisites to be overseer -1st Timothy 3:2) took me to this filty, nasty town shelter…..when I saw the place inside, I told myself: “I rather sleep in the street!”
    Churches today work more like any other office, company or worldly enterprise: the “who we are” people in their web pages, instead of being servants of Christ are plain “Staff”!
    Im so tired of this thing they call “worship” team, a worldly ROCK BAND……that blind man in John 9:38 was standing in front of the lord, no drums, no guitars, no bass guitars, no keyboards….and HE ADORED HIM!

    so much traditions of man, so much hollow religion, so much cult of personality, so much hypocrisy….
    Churches today suck!

    • Timothy on August 2, 2021 at 5:07 pm

      Hi F.Luna,

      I agree with almost everything you have said – well done. And disagree with much of the article. I think you would enjoy an amazing bible study – it’s a book called ‘Getting to Heaven’. It’s just over 200 pages – but as all things that are truly from God – it is free of charge and can be downloaded at logostruth.com

      No drums, Amen – for what invokes the flesh more – which is diametrically opposed to John 4:4. But why should we expect any of the 501c3 IRS contracted corporations – to be focused on anything but ‘church’ growth and mammon! However, Psalm 150 does list a number of His approved instruments of worship – of course not to be used with this ‘selfie’ generation g’me g’me g’me worldly lyrics of today’s bogus worship (Mat 15:3,6,9).

      Yours in Christ,

      Timothy

      • Felicity on September 16, 2021 at 1:50 pm

        Greetings Timothy

        I tried to find the book Getting to Heaven as you mentioned it is nowhere to be found. I also accessed the logos truth site but it is very muddled, writing over writing etc.

        • Phil IMM on September 16, 2021 at 7:01 pm

          Thank OUR Lord Jesus that the New Covenant as per Yeshua our Messiach is nothing like GTH which is 206 pages of criticism like John the Baptist (who himself had to come to Yeshua and his ministry faded away!) The OLD had/has to go from within us. The old way distinguished what was law and how people had transgressed. The OLD was misread, mis-translated and was misinterpreted about the underlying love of God. The OLD pointed to Jesus as the saviour and king. Who did not come to Judge the World while on earth. Yeshua the King who will reign eternally and will have ONE kingdom, will judge the people individually as per their situation. Nothing like what GTH does, generalising everyone’s behaviour as according to the “groups”, “sects”, cults”, “denominations” that are known in this world. God looks at the heart, not that you belong to the tribe of Levi, Judah, Reuben or even Dan. This book is all about clubbing people together and condemning them.
          The new covenant established by Yeshua simply says Sin exists in all people. Doesn’t tear them and stomp on them further. Humans have a proclivity to be a Pharisee and Saducee. Yeshua said watch out for the Yeast of the Pharisee. Just two commands….Love the Lord. Love your neighbour. He showed and demonstrated what love is, by giving up self and dying to his own will and agreeing to the Father’s Will. It would be so much more beneficial if the writer of GTH by dying to his judgemental self, making cowering people avoid him, to write what good has he performed (much like the Yeshua from the gospels I know and trust). If GTH can be squeezed like a lemon, only accusations, disagreements, criticisms, bias, generalisations, with cherry-picked verses thrown in, would be extracted with very little acceptance of the sinful personhood. It shows very little understanding of care, compassion that Yeshua showed. The Bible and the Holy Spirit will speak into peoples lives making them aware of their sins, there is none righteous enough to point and judge others. It makes me think of the Pharisee who saw the repentant, remorseful Tax Collector and think – “it makes me vomit that the tax-collector is shedding false tears and attending the synagogue, when he should be out there returning the wrongful collections he has made profits from.”
          Sorry Felicity – injecting yourself with the venom and poison of the authors of GTH, which is the yeast of the Pharisees in criticizing everyone else except oneself, you’ll be so much safer reading the Bible – Yeshua’s teaching than GTH.

    • Pastrix Rachel Teresa on August 27, 2021 at 10:33 am

      Jesus called me to be a minister, seeded me an idea and the Holy Ghost made it explode beyond my imagination. I ran out of money to continue advertising it online, and told God, “it’s up to you.” LOL It’s still getting 3,000 hits a month. 290,000 seeds have been planted in 15 months on a very small budget. The Holy Spirit had me write sermons on getting healed, Demonology (fighting Satan), your relationship with Jesus (the main thing, what He really wants), living holy, and Jesus and Him Crucified. It’s the Gospel. Almost every sermon has the ABCs of Salvation and a call to repentance. The Holy Spirit did it all, not me. I’m just the vessel He used. Nothing more. The Holy Spirit also had me talk a lot about Bible Prophecy, which most of the organized church avoids like the plague. That is a huge mistake and those pastors will be held responsible one day for that. There is also NO church speak. I love how-to sermons.

      I’ve never been to seminary, I have no allegiances to one denomination or the other. Somehow, I recognized the end times revival would be held right where a person was during the lockdowns. The end times revival was online while people were at home searching for answers.

      What did I learn? People are hungry for the Gospel. They want the truth. They want you to tell them how Jesus can make them a complete person. And, my relationship with Jesus also grew by leaps and bounds. It is amazing how far Jesus has brought me.

      Organized churches never wanted me to sup with them. I went there alone and left alone. Never was invited in. But, Jesus wanted me. And, because of one thing He did, I started an outreach to others like me totally guided by the Holy Spirit and it exploded into something wonderful. God can do the same with you. Jesus is the answer not a denomination or building. Jesus said if He be lifted up, He would draw all men unto Him.

    • SleepyCatzzz on August 29, 2021 at 1:55 pm

      A building was used in the original gatherings for shelter and privacy. These gathering places cost money due to the numbers that gather together these days, since there are so many believers. Be practical. Without the internet “gatherings” now possible, Christians needed each other for support, prayer, and learning, and had to leave their homes to gather for this. The derision you have for “renting a building” is quite frankly thoughtless for the logistics. I would wager you grew up in the age of the internet, a totally recent development when looking at human history, and to denigrate that is just unthinking. Also, when you characterize “people”, do you understand how ridiculous it is? There are as many different “people” and “people’s” thoughts and “people’s” ideas and “people’s” beliefs as there are shades of colors. Declaring what “people” think is a naïve and quite erroneous way to think and is unfair to all people.

    • Nicole on August 31, 2021 at 4:40 pm

      I am so sorry that you have been through so much and that you felt abandoned by the church leadership. Unfortunately too much selfish ambitious have come into the church that doesn’t belong. Heaven forbid if a topic of hell or any other unfathomable truth be spoken of in some churches, the whole place would implode. But not preaching the good News with the fact that there is also evil and that you can be brought down quickly and unexpectedly by the evil of the world and the only way to be saved is through the blood of Jesus is becoming more common in places of worship. Comfortable churches are becoming the way of the world. Places where there is no mention of helping the poor or the widow but with focus on individualism and earthly prosperity

      • SleepyCatzzz on September 1, 2021 at 8:21 pm

        Thank you for your response. To be clear, a major function of the church has been, and should continue to be, to provide a place of worship to safely confess (in my mind, doesn’t need to be out loud) and ask God for forgiveness and strength, a place that is a refuge from others telling me what to do and how to think all the time. A place where no matter the demographic or politics, we are one in God’s mercy and love. However, churches have turned into lecture halls with “name that Biblical interpretation”, persuasion for social reforms, whipping up passions for feel-good adrenalin rushes. They neglect serving people who are there to actually worship God. It is very sad to me. I think this may be why many opt to stay home, because it is critical to have those moments to go through communion, prayer, and worship with other Christians.

      • Jeanette on September 6, 2021 at 4:01 am

        Amazing you posted this Aug 31, the day our friend passed. He was diagnosed with cancer and passed all in 2 weeks. They lived on his income. His wife plans to work. We are gathering funds from friends for his spouse (widow) since we were told “the benevolent fund” was previously allocated to another widow with children. Sadly, I suppose people don’t donate to the benevolent fund easily and funds to help in dire need are limited.

    • dandan on September 24, 2021 at 8:31 am

      the corporate Church incorporated 501c3 is full of crap people who respectfully honestly seek the word of God will not find in these entertainment venues full of psychobabble and Good times they lay out tables full of information about the Bible most of it false and there will be not one Bible….. these corporate venues are full of hypocrites and liars if you do not agree with them they will cuss you out even in Bible study… Bible studies are nothing more than another sermon there is nothing to be learned there….. they teach the same lessons over and over again cuz they don’t know any others they are gatherings of egomaniacs psychopaths sociopaths and the most mean and hateful bunch are the Baptist… they cry and cry about 3500 Baptist Church is closing but they say nothing about the abuses that go on within the Baptist community……. myself was attacked twice in Bible study I was called filthy names at Bible study for reading out of my Bible contrary to the rapture theory…..
      even at men’s gatherings away from the church reading out of my Bible one man stood up yelling and screaming that he went to seminary I told him you may have went to seminary but you didn’t learn anything……. the true place for true Christians is to stand alone with Bible believers leave these corporate manifestations they receive their incorporation from the government they are beholden to the government not to Christians….. the rapture is false doctrine the Trinity is false doctrine those who call the rogue state of Israel chosen are false they only parent what they are told marketing and hype they do not read their Bible they have been lied to and they love the LIE it makes them popular…..

  5. Lonnie on July 13, 2021 at 7:07 pm

    Somehow we are a part of creation. I would rather practice following a Christian way of living than to join a group of other people guiding me their ways. What do you believe in? Church is not for attendance, it’s for the gospel of what Christ would want me to be like, and so I go there for understanding. What was the last thing read and what was encouraging and good for my spirit. I’m imperfect in every way, but I believe I can do better. Until the blessing is upon you…you will never understand. And that’s why you believe whatever your soul guides you to believe. We will…maybe we will never meet or be in the same place. Roll your own dice.

    • Adam on July 19, 2021 at 4:15 pm

      May I ask…what exactly IS the definition of “church”…this would save us all a tremendous amount of time and energy if we’d first define the terms up front.

      Two thoughts.

      Thought # 1 – If by “church”, we mean to say the Body of Christ who is living as followers of Christ and His example, then it seems to me that discontinuing our devotion to a certain church building, denomination or doctrine of men is NOT the same as us being “done with church”. We’re merely “done” with commandments of men being taught as doctrines. And from the pattern we see in Scripture, this ought to be a good thing – the beginning of a fruitful season I might add.

      Now if by “church”, you mean to say, including but not limited to: a church building, IT’S MEMBERS, it’s doctrines specific to that denomination or leadership or the institution itself and/or the process that has been the age-old “way of doing things” in terms of religiousness or piety within our society, then indeed, “Houston, we have a problem.”

      Thought #2 – Do we need to put ourselves underneath the yoke of another man to understand the Scripture? Do we need an institution or denomination to settle the matters of Truth for us? Using my second definition of “church”, what exact value does this modern “church” add to the effort of being like Christ that I cannot do without it? What is it’s value proposition? Is that proposed value even something that Scripture models or demands from the Body of Christ? One should take their time to think about what I am asking here…and to see if their current belief aligns with the Word of God.

      I get the sneaky suspicion that those who have remained in Babylon are imagining and using a different definition of “church” than those who have decided to be “done with church”, lol. My suggestion? Allow this Greater Exodus to audit your (fill in with your favorite church institution here) doctrines and ways of doing things…maybe crack open that Bible….particularly the first 5 books, and see how well your church aligns with that…and why do I recommend that? Because that is precisely what Jesus taught… the Law of God, His Father. My goodness…Jesus was the one in the burning bush who GAVE the LAW. So if we are to keep His commandments…those commandments in the FRONT of the Good Book are His, too!

      And I wouldn’t be a good steward if I didn’t provide content for the dissenters:

      ———–

      Matthew 5:17-19 KJV

      17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

      18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

      19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

      ———–

      John 7:16 KJV

      16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, BUT HIS THAT SENT ME.

      ———-

      What is His doctrine?

      Proverbs 4:2 KJV

      2 For I give you good doctrine, FORSAKE YE NOT MY LAW.

      ———-

      Psalm 103:2-3,10-12, 17-18

      2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:

      3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;…

      10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

      11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

      12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us…

      17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children’s children;

      18 TO SUCH AS KEEP HIS COVENANT, AND TO THOSE THAT REMEMBER HIS COMMANDMENTS TO DO THEM.

      ———–

      Proverbs 28:9 KJV

      9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, EVEN HIS PRAYER SHALL BE AN ABOMINATION.

      Oh dear, I wasn’t taught that in “church” ! So what does all this Law-Keeping have to do with going to church or not? Because ALL, not most, not many, not some, but ALL denominations have forsaken His commandments. They teach doctrines that clearly contradict Jesus, Paul and the entirety of Scripture such that those who are earnestly looking for The Way have determined that it is not found in those high places of our society that we know as “church” today. This is why definitions are important, you see.

      1 Timothy 6:3 KJV

      3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, EVEN THE WORDS OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

      4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

      5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself…

      So we might be in a predicament… where the Bible commands us to learn from Him, through His Spirit, to walk as He walked and to forsake anything that hinders. Especially commandments of men…

      ———-

      Matthew 11:29 KJV

      29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

      ———

      Oh but wait! There’s more!

      1 John 2:3-6 KJV

      3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

      4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

      5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

      6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

      ———-

      1 John 5:1-3 KJV

      5 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

      2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.

      3 For this is the LOVE OFGOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

      ———-
      Deuteronomy 30:11-16 KJV

      11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.

      12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

      13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?

      14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

      15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

      16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

      ———-

      2 John 1:6, 9-11

      6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it…

      9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the DOCTRINE OF CHRIST, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

      10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him NOT into your house, neither bid him God speed:

      11 For he that biddeth him God speed IS PARTAKER OF HIS EVIL DEEDS.

      ————

      So you see? Being “done with church” is only a bad thing if we are using a Biblical definition of the church. Otherwise, stepping out of the Babylonian religion is the first meaningful step to the wisdom and salvation of God. Ironically, not one denomination would welcome me if I openly obeyed all that Christ taught, represented and did Himself…I know of not one church that would have me back if I preached or taught it. That is where we’ve come to.

      I’ll leave you with this:

      ———-

      Luke 6:46-49 KJV

      46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

      47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

      48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

      49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

      • Jeff on July 28, 2021 at 12:48 pm

        (I can’t easily see which post I’m replying to, but it’s good anyway, God Willing).

        To understand Scripture: The Creator Grants Understanding , or doesn’t grant understanding.

      • Andy V on August 1, 2021 at 5:15 am

        Yes. Definitions of words used are critical. We see Jesus being “culturally relevant” when speaking parables using agricultural/Fishing references, people of those times would get the references used.

        Are we “church”? We are certainly the “body of Christ”, no need to debate that one, but is it also true that “we are church”? Maybe if we want to build rapport with people who don’t know Jesus, we may want to pay closer attention to language, and check what we/they understand the words being used to mean.

        For me, “church” conjures up references to buildings, organisations, institutional models etc. And maybe I’ve been tricked into thinking like that?? However, what I can say is I have fellowship with other followers of Jesus and we try, as best as we can, to follow his teachings. This happens in the woods around a fire drinking tea, or in someone’s garden (around a fire, again!), drinking more tea. And always it’s a time of talking about/discussing the “near Kingdom”, verses from scripture, interpreting dreams, praying/prophecying over each other, hearing troubles shared……and laughing a lot.

        Is that church? I guess it could be called that (do we have a working definition yet??) but I choose to call it fellowship. That’s just me applying my cultural relevance to the term.

        Being “done” with organisational messy stuff is fine if fellowship continues. If you want to say I’m splitting hairs that’s ok too. I really don’t mind, and if you’re a follower of Jesus, I’ll happily sit shoulder to shoulder with you and enjoy talking God stuff….in front of the fire……drinking tea (or coffee)…..

        • tom on September 1, 2021 at 8:08 am

          That Andy V, is a house Church. That is church. But along with the campfires and tea must come helping those in need. Matt 25:35-36

          • Andy V on September 1, 2021 at 8:52 am

            Tom, I get the scripture, I really do, but as I said language is critical as is cultural relevance. The term “church” as a word has context and associated meaning. For me, it associates with institutional organisations which, over a certain size appear to lose sight of the basics of why we even meet together, the real reason we meet.

            As for helping those in need, for all you know they might be sitting around the same campfire, relaxed, not judged, welcomed etc.

            I’m never going to promote fragmenting the body of Christ although the tens of denominations out there seem to be doing a good job of that as it is. But I am going to stand firm and repeat the same…”church” in modern day meaning references I institutional power which is far to predisposed to going off on tangents and believing God approves.

            That’s all I’m saying……



      • Timothy on August 2, 2021 at 5:48 pm

        Hi Adam,

        There were a lot of horrible things that seminary has done to 1,000s upon 1,000s of well meaning and God seeking men – but there were, at least where I went – some good things that help us “rightly divide His Word” (2 Tim 2:15) – also known as hermeneutical exegesis. And although even the process of hermeneutics has also been polluted by men and women who think their ways and thoughts are higher than God – the basics still are rock solid and will help you greatly in your studies.

        They could be summarized by ‘The 3 Texts’ & ‘The 5 Solas’. And if you make sure that all 8 of these ‘boxes’ are always ‘checked’ off – you will have a complete and accurate interpretation of His Word every time.

        God is not schizophrenic, bi-polar, nor does He have any memory issues due to Alzheimer’s – He is perfect and so is His Word (in the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic). And so if He says something, it’s a fact. If a ‘teaching’ is not in His Word, and / or contradicts the meaning of the text, is out of context, and / or is not in perfect harmony with all the other co-texts on that topic – it is a lie, a false doctrine – period end of story. Therefore, we must look up every word (the ‘text’), unless you are fluent and a scholar in Hebrew and Greek – and find out what God actually said / dictated to the 40 ‘pens’ of the 66 books. Read about the background of each book, Matthew Henry is a safe and solid historical commentary – and know the ‘context’ of the book. Remember the NT doesn’t begin until Acts chapter 2, and even then – books after 2 Thes have specific audiences as well – like Hebrews written to the unsaved Jews who were sitting on the fence between believing The Gospel and living according to their ‘old’ ways. Not surprisingly, that is where most ‘you can lose you salvation’ false doctrines come from – a book that is written to Jews who are not yet saved, not to the ‘Church / His People / Ekklesia’ . And lastly, ‘co-text’. We literally have to look up every word on a topic, from Gen to Rev – in order to determine His full revelation on a topic. This is the most time consuming part of ‘study to show yourself approved’ – and why most ‘bible students’ and professing Christians are failing miserably.

        The 5 Solas – just make sure any any and every doctrine perfectly fulfills all 5 – if not, reject it as false / leaven / from the pit of hell lol. By grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, for His glory alone – with all resulting teachings and doctrines and beliefs – according to scripture alone. It’s pretty simple, but almost always ignored by the denominations / demon-nations and non-denominations and independents alike. Why? Because they all lift up a man-made name and God will not be mocked, and He will get all the glory! He hates money changers and hierlings – and so hates everyone who sells anything claiming it is from Him. But I guess that Jesus Christ and The Cross, the bread & the wine / His Body & His Blood – don’t market well. All very demanding (yes salvation is free / not of works but it is anything but ‘free’ – for it will cost a truly born again disciple everything, possibly even his / her life) – but all very simple. Sadly, people read what they already believe / have been taught – instead of believing what they read / the simple black ink on white paper words in scripture.

        Read the book Getting to Heaven – it’s a free download at logostruth.com – and a great bible study.

        Yours in Christ,

        Timothy

      • tyna anyim on August 26, 2021 at 9:40 pm

        You have practically said all that I wanted to say. The Body of Christ is still alive but the Earthly church as we knew it, is DEAD. That’s what God have been trying to tell us before now. He is no longer in those buildings called Churches. Church is not where we go to, it’s what we become. Develop a personal relationship with the Lord and walk with people who understand this relationship and you will be just fine. Shalom

  6. Ddeclinetoaskgoogle on July 9, 2021 at 5:27 pm

    I didn’t have this said, written and uploaded to answer questions. Put your question in a comment statement for response and it will be read. Those wanting and trying to reach out will be able to answer your questions. Maybe you have someone next to you maybe they’ll come knock on your door maybe you already had the answer you just didn’t care to know. Best of luck.

    • marco on July 9, 2021 at 7:49 pm

      Brothers and sisters, 1 Corinthians 13:1-13

      Love

      13 1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

      4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth [1] not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; [2] 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

      8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; [3] whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. [4] 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought [5] as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; [6] but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

      • Timothy on August 2, 2021 at 6:00 pm

        Hi Marco,

        The problem is not His Word which you have quoted, but the assumption in your heading. For His Word also says – “many are called but few are chosen’. And since God doesn’t lie – the issue is the fact that most professing Christians are not truly saved …

        Mat 7:22,23  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 

        And …

        Luk 13:23-27  Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.  When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 

        Doesn’t this sound like a lot of the people and a lot of the ‘churches’ you know?

        Read the book Getting to Heaven – it’s a free download at logostruth.com – and not only a great bible study, but explains the history of the recent Protestant ‘church’ (late 1800s until now) – and how everything got so messed up. And most importantly, if you would like – how God can use you to save dozens if not 100s of souls!

        Yours in Christ,

        Timothy

    • Dave Wagner on July 12, 2021 at 11:05 am

      I like what you’ve said and agree. (Two or more gathered in my name). Having been baptized in the Nazarene church and having the crap scared out of me because I was already going to hell was the beginning of my turn off. Sure, I went to other churches later on in life and even took catechism to become a Catholic because the mystery of the body and blood of Christ. Where church made the most sense was in AA and NA. We come together as a small group, that’s our church. We speak individually from our hearts on daily living, the problems we all have. There’s no judgment, no ridicule then somehow Christ or God is there in each one of us. You really feel it. There’s an honest to goodness healing that take place when the mind is open. There’s also a look in others eyes when it happens. All of a sudden the scriptures become real and you understand it from the heart. Love comes out and healing takes place. Funny thing though, that happens in the basement of a church not in the main part of the building. I’ve always said if there was something similar to AA for the rest of the people who don’t have drug or alcohol problems, just daily living problems we might have a happier world. I’ve seen miracles happen there, I am one of them. I don’t as a rule correspond on the internet but you said the word grace, I feel it now and it’s as real as night and day. That’s my reason for commenting. Glad I did!

      • Jeff on July 28, 2021 at 12:51 pm

        Hopefully in Truth and Grace you already discovered the catholic mass is an abomination completely foreign to Scripture and opposed to God’s Instructions and is something worse than idolatry, crucifying anew, daily, Jesus , and having NO redemption, NO forgiveness, and NO repentance from sin, NO repenting turning to the Father in Heaven to find His Kingdom.

      • Timothy on August 2, 2021 at 6:08 pm

        Hi Dave,

        So if two are gathered, and profess to be Christians – and both agree that we must eat figs to be saved, because fig trees where mentioned often in scripture – does that make it true? Of course not. So, that verse you quoted must be applied in ‘context’ and include all ‘co-texts’ of that topic (see the answer above on The 3 Texts & 5 Solas).

        I suggest you read the book ‘Getting to Heaven’ – it’s a free download at logostruth.com – and not only a great bible study, but addresses you correct dislike for the man-made denomination / demon-nations. But is also covers some of the ‘hard sayings’ of Jesus – like heaven and hell. For if we call ourselves a Christian, then we have to adhere to and not add to nor take away from His Word (Jesus calls Himself the Word John 1:1, and has some harsh words for those who mess with it Rev 22:18,19). But I’m confident all your questions will be answered if you read GTH.

        Yours in Christ,

        Timothy

    • Lynn on July 22, 2021 at 4:25 pm

      Reveal yourself… for the world to see

  7. company formation on June 19, 2021 at 5:30 am

    nice

    • The number 4 on June 25, 2021 at 12:10 am

      Nice is a wonderful word to describe this opinion. Yawn would also fit. I guess Christians have never heard of reverse psychology being used to control and manipulate. Open ALL of the Vatican (pedophiles) libraries to the public to allow the full interpretation of the god you speak of.
      P.S. stop asking for money it makes everything incredibly obvious.

      • Jeff on June 30, 2021 at 10:45 pm

        Nothing from the v libraries , at their own discretion or choice to bring it out, is helpful but is part of worldwide false gospel. Apparently, reading some of the comments from the last few years , fessandwayne have corrupted much of this blog/webpage so be alert that many comments posted are from a false gospel, not to be accepted not even to be listened to – it is not accepted at all to be continued in any assembly of ekklesia as the Creator says not to permit the false gospel, ever, and not to receive anyone who brings a false gospel.

        • marco on July 9, 2021 at 7:37 pm

          13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

          14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

          15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

          16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

          17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

          18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

          19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

          20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

          21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

          22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

          23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

          24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

          25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

      • Heather kell on July 7, 2021 at 7:56 pm

        Unusual response to what seems like a very balanced article
        The church is flawed – so are you – so am I
        We meet together anyway

        The church as individuals will be judged by Almighty God got its sin – especially pedophillia

        • marco on July 9, 2021 at 7:41 pm

          13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

          14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

          15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

          16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? — MATTHEW7

      • pradeep ivon on July 9, 2021 at 9:40 pm

        dear brother/sister no need to get into the Vatican libraries fine if they are opened but since the BIBLE is enough- ¨Sola Scriptura¨ and thanks to Reformation by Martin Luther we have the Word of God in our hands- read it study it meditate on it seek guidance from the Lord in praying earnestly and He will give you wisdom to understand; use the Holy Word to guide the life by trusting on it more than our lives and our lives shall be blessed and the giving to the needy whether money, time or other resources will come by itself. This is what the Covid19 and the locked down churches and other worship places plus our own family suffering since 2018 has taught me this fine & valuable law!

    • Jeff Elohim on July 3, 2021 at 8:27 am

      ============
      “Son on January 21, 2019 at 9:43 pm

      This forum, where we once discussed matters of spiritual significance, has gone to the dogs.”
      ============
      I doubt if anything spiritually significant has been seen in your lifetime. However, something spiritually significant might have been, or is, or will be. Abide in Jesus. Keep Seeking Yahweh’s(God’s) Kingdom. “on earth as it is in heaven”. (not as it is in church).
      As correctly, though perhaps not with understanding nor wisdom of the Creator,
      noted in the primary starting paragraph:
      “The church isn’t even biblical, is it?”
      No. It is not. It is not Biblical, it is not required, it is not honest, and it is not going away until it’s sin is full and judgment and wrath of the Creator are executed destroying it and its wicked power in deceiving people.

      Oh, “Biblical” Is Ekklesia. Set apart (holy) ones. Still the same as always. Unchanged in 2000 years or longer. Born again ones, born by the Will of the Father, not anything man can do.
      Jesus, and Ekklesia, and Truth, is not found in churches.
      Rather, Seek Truth, while it may be found (if it still may be found anywhere, by some one at least).
      Keep Seeking.
      The Creator’s Promise is that those who seek and keep seeking will find. Ask Him. Those who ask and keep asking will be answered by Him. Strive to enter the Kingdom , for many have tried, and failed.
      Give up everything to find and follow Jesus as His child, His infant, His student, His disciple, if the Creator is Willing. All things in Him, everything changes. Whole life becomes new creation – not old life cleaned up but all new creation, as written. Not church. Alive. Not sinning. Meditating on His Word Continually, Daily, Always, trusting the Father in heaven to accomplish this and all of salvation in this life and in the life to come. As written. (See Expanded Greek Translation by Wuest for simple description of these things, a little child is granted comprehension by the Almighty, Abba, that He Hides from the educated ones.)

      • Timothy on August 2, 2021 at 6:13 pm

        Well said Jeff.

        Check out the book Getting to Heaven – it’s a free download at logostruth.com – and not only reiterates and expounds on much of what you have said – but also explains the history of the recent Protestant ‘church’ (late 1800s until now) – and how everything got so messed up. And most importantly, if you would like – how God can use you to save dozens if not 100s of souls – in those man-made buildings people call ‘churches’ that you and I both know are not His!

        Yours in Christ,

        Timothy

  8. Mike on June 10, 2021 at 5:28 pm

    It is just too very bad that most women even in the house of God are so very pathetic these days unfortunately. At least back in the past which most of the women were the very complete opposite of today, and real ladies as well. Hard to meet a decent normal woman today for many of us single guys now.

    • Jeff on June 11, 2021 at 9:29 am

      Men and women have been … um …

      not right, … for centuries. Finding a pure heart in man or woman has been a rare finding for generations.

      Imagine there are ten men, and ten women, pure in heart , in the world and not of the world.
      Imagine that they are scattered in different places around the world/earth in different countries.

      How would they find each other ? It might even be that they do not find each other.

      Would Yahweh the Creator and Giver of All Life spare the world from destruction if He Finds ten who are righteous in the world ?

      Note that the world is , according to His Own Word, doomed, and soon to be destroyed.

    • Jeff on June 15, 2021 at 12:04 am

      Around , well decades ago, women used to say “all men are pigs”. In church! And Bible meetings, and at restaurants, and wherever a woman was, this was possible to be heard from them. And I agree=d with them and said the same thing freely myself, for no reason other than it was/ is / true.
      In the same way as in Yahweh’s Word it is said “All Cretans are liars” or some such observation about all Cretans. I think that the Apostles acknowledged that this was a well known occurence. (not necessarily that it was supposed to be repeated like as in the seat of scoffers (Psalm1), nor as if standing in the company of the wicked accusing others, no, perhaps not).
      See, it is rare to find a man or a woman who is decent, honest, truthful, and serving God, following Jesus as Jesus taught all of His disciples to do.

    • Kerri Johnstone on June 18, 2021 at 9:24 pm

      I’m sure they find that view as charming. With an attitude like that, I pray that you will find a woman. Women ARE different and we should still be following Biblical principles. However, Prince Charming, maybe you need to adjust a l little and then you will find the woman who will accept YOU the way you are too. God Bless xxx

      • anonymous on June 23, 2021 at 1:51 pm

        while i understand the sentiment that the commenter should lower expectation and I agree it wouldn’t be right to hold someone to impossible standards; the reality is that statistically speaking, 80% of Christian women engage in, AND openly support premarital sex as opposed to 53% of Christian men; while 95% of both Christian men and women have cheated on their partners. The issue is not the standards someone is being held to; the problem is the standards that no longer exist.

        • Gordon on June 26, 2021 at 6:11 pm

          95% of Christians cheat on their spouses? I’m gonna need some proof of that?

          • Jeff on June 29, 2021 at 6:45 am

            Proof? That 95% of Christians cheat on their spouses? Twenty or Thirty years ago, it was reported by ministers of most Christian churches that they HAD NOT EVEN MARRIED together ANY (not even 1) faithful and chaste man or woman in twenty years of being a minister. That’s how rare it is (non-existent) to start with, to find someone faithful BEFORE marrying them.
            Then, Ravenhill and others pointed out decades ago, that MAYBE 5% of those who called themselves “Christian” in the usa were even Christian at all. Thus, 95% “Christians” are in name only – i.e. not faithful Christians.
            There’s more, much much more, but who is able to hear the truth , ever ?
            The Creator Himself Says in His WORD- WHO is as blind and as deaf as My Own servant (paraphrased). Thus , in Truth, in Deed, FEW are Chosen (for eternal life).
            Oh, call unto Him, the Giver of Life, ANY who would seek His Kingdom, and He May Save you. The Power and Salvation and Grace and Wisdom and Knowledge are All His. He Is Faithful And True. Yahshua Came to Seek and to Save the lost.



        • Gordon on June 29, 2021 at 6:52 am

          Can you rewrite that in a way that’s legible and makes sense in English, without randomly capitalizing things? I can’t read your mind.
          It also sounds like you define marriage as a series of vows and a pronouncement instead of the bilateral union of the flesh, which is the actual bond of marriage. Adam and Eve never had a wedding.

          • Jeff on July 28, 2021 at 12:44 pm

            “We” (those written of in one or more of the Epistles, letters to the assemblies of Ekklesia (born again by the Will of the Father and set apart (holy) by Him))
            have
            the
            thoughts
            of
            Jesus.



      • marco on July 9, 2021 at 8:02 pm

        13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

        2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

        3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

        4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

        5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

        6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

        7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

        8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

        9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

        10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

        11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

        12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

        13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
        – 1 Corinthians 13

    • SleepyCatzzz on August 29, 2021 at 1:44 pm

      It saddens me when I read statements like “women blah blah” and “Christians blah blah”, lumping groups into a box for judgement. There is a huge variety of people in every single group. Stop being so judgemental. Love. And the perspective is usually made with such a small number that happened to interract with the judging person (online or in reality), which renders all conclusions statistically insignificant. Love. All people have a soul. God loves all the souls he has created.

  9. Ella Starr on June 4, 2021 at 2:16 pm

    How interesting that you talk about how Jesus does not usually appear to us individually, and we can still be helped by the church. My husband and I are thinking of starting to go to church. We will find a great place to seek comfort in God.

    • Jeff Elohim on June 8, 2021 at 4:34 pm

      Jesus Says “MY sheep HEAR MY VOICE and follow ME” . Each one. Every one of His sheep. They/we/ will not listen to another voice – rather run from it. No deception. No other Name, No other voice. Only Jesus’ Voice. For Real. And as Jesus Says “My Words Are Spirit, and They Are Life”. “I know you don’t know how to live. Turn to Me, Come to Me and Learn from Me.” Jesus Says. He is Faithful and True. His Word is Unchanged.

      • marco on July 9, 2021 at 7:57 pm

        21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

        22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

        23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

        24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

  10. jason adams on May 30, 2021 at 8:34 pm

    Jesus focused on personal character and Jewish problems not th future church. He barely talked about it. It’s better to get out of church than stay in disfunctional community focused on past texts.

  11. Pablo on May 12, 2021 at 9:05 am

    “If you want a more biblical church…don’t gather weekly, gather daily. Before dawn.
    Get up before the sun rises to pray together with other Christians before you go to work. Pool your possessions. Don’t claim anything as your own. Be willing to lose your job, your home, your family and even your life because you follow Jesus. Then you’ll be more authentic.”

    That’s sounds great to me. There are plenty of questions to ask/pray about along the way . . . but why not
    lean into adventure in God? Clearly the way the whole thing in Acts 2 was started in Acts 1 – by unity in
    prayer – praying for the filling and leadership of the Holy Spirit. All the rest flowed out from that. – not by
    organizing everything from a written prescription. They were told to stay where they were and pray.
    They just wanted the Holy Spirit to take charge.
    Do we?

    Or was the statement intended as sarcasm?

    • Matt Collins on May 17, 2021 at 8:24 am

      Acts 2 is not prescriptive, it is describing what happened. Are we willing to sell all our possessions and give to the poor? Are we to meet daily in the Temple Courts? The statement wasn’t intended to be sarcastic but realistic. We need to respect the literature of the book of Acts. The Bible was written FOR us but not TO us.

      • Jeff on June 30, 2021 at 10:20 pm

        Yes. I thought all true followers of Jesus would willingly sell all they have, or “consider nothing as their own”, and any need needing met in the assembly would be met directly by someone(s) in the assembly, simply, exactly as Jesus’ followers did in the first century/ first assembly and later assemblies obedient to Jesus truly following Him, not remaining selfish nor self-protective as taught in false religions and society. Living Daily In Union with the Son and with the Father, thus with also others who are also echad, one in the Son, in the Father, is found Delightfully in Jesus’ Own Prayer in John 18, and found throughout the NT (and parts of the OT).

    • Bob M. on May 28, 2021 at 10:38 am

      the Church lives in the Spirit… is led in the Spirit .. according to the will and Purpose of God in Christ.

  12. Michael on May 9, 2021 at 7:01 am

    Good afternoon sir/ma
    Since we are the church, does it mean we(church) that do not go to church lead to hell…
    Having a personal relationship with God and also with your colleagues made you have access to heaven?

    • Brentley Hawkins on July 10, 2021 at 10:13 am

      There is only one sacrifice that has the power to save his name is jésus his body was broken for our sins his blood was shead for our atonment salvation is in the man on the cross not the man in the mirror

  13. guespost on May 6, 2021 at 3:11 am

    Your blogs and information attracts me to come back again n again.

  14. Myra on May 3, 2021 at 12:50 am

    Hello my dear,

    Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts here. I’m a Christian Evangelist at my local church. I resonate with what you say a lot, and there is so much hostility that Satan puts up against the Church of Christ, but by the divine grace of God, God’s will must be done regardless how much His servants must suffer for his sake, we shall overcome the world of sin, death and hate. I’m encouraged to continue in Lord Jesus’s ministry and mission and following God’s divine calling in building churches, preaching the gospel to all nations, teaching people to obey what the Lord has commanded us, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost and God shall be with us till the end of age. Amen to your post, keep up the good works, you are not fighting for God’s kingdom alone, love and god bless! Sister in Christ Myra

    • Robert on May 6, 2021 at 6:24 am

      It’s true that the churches of all followings have failed, they have all lost the plot, but saying that it had lost it long ago, not to say though that their would be those that are true christians at heart amount all different followings ( different religious cults ) who have been there and still are standing strong in their belief, they know within their own hearts true spiritual being that there is a powerful spirit of humanity that goes even further to realise that not only humans but includes all living creatures and Mother Earth itself, they will come forth and be known, I’m one of those , I’m looking forward to congregating and celebrating with those whom can share the true meaning of religion of the true Christian , god be with you all

      • william blackburn on May 26, 2021 at 5:19 pm

        I am cocerned with your idea of Mother Earth. There is no such person as Mother Earth. I call that blasphemous!!!

        • Gemmee on June 17, 2021 at 10:40 am

          Blasphemous? This might be truth but it is no truth when truth is not seasoned with grace. People who see’s this seasoning will be the ones who will listen and join the church to stand thankful for God’s grace. Too many Christians condemn forgetting the grace God gave to them to share to others? We all need grace not condemnation.

  15. Peni Varani on April 15, 2021 at 6:07 pm

    Quiet interesting and find new logical facts!!! It is, as far as I am concerned, spiritual food for everyone on this Spiritual realm on hand. Recommend it for every born again Christian!! Amen

    • Genna on May 5, 2021 at 10:16 pm

      The church left me actually when it decided that worshiping the government’s fascist lockdowns were more valuable than the congregation’s need for human contact for fellowship. Not dying is not living. If people are sick, then we are called to care for them even if we get sick doing it, just like in biblical times.

      Selfish politically correct worship is not what we are called to do.

  16. Marianna on April 9, 2021 at 5:28 pm

    I completely agree with what you have written. I hope this post could reach more people as this was truly an interesting post.
    God never fails to change someone’s life for the better. So, if you are someone struggling with life right now, you must know that there is always light waiting for you at the end. The light that can fulfill you and provide you with so much happiness and contentment in life, waiting for you to see it.
    You may check my blog The Truths about How God Can Lift Spirits
    Hope this will help. Thank you.

    • Tabytha Goode on May 25, 2021 at 9:42 am

      I am very blessed to have the church I have. Our pastor allows the spirit to move in our church sometimes doesn’t even preach the sermon he’s prepared for. Sometimes it’s just singing and then those days you see people coming to the alter. He always does alter calls. Always. He preaches out of the King James Bible. Our church isn’t like the churches now a days and we do have fellowship. Our pastor makes it a point to do fellowship. Very blessed but most importantly very thankful for Jesus Christ for making himself real to me often. I’m sorry if this comes off like I’m bragging.. I just want to let everyone know that there is still pastors who are still preaching from the word of God and haven’t given up. Remember it’s a relationship not a religion. It is personal.

      • Margaux on June 29, 2021 at 10:02 am

        “Remember it’s a relationship not a religion. It is personal”
        Amen!

  17. Fashion Boutique on April 8, 2021 at 12:40 am

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  18. Thomas Boston on March 31, 2021 at 7:53 pm

    hello and good day
    Christians that are done with Church topic?
    WOW if i say so my self since scripture states
    forsake ye not he congregation of the Lord
    i have not been to church because i am tired of
    fake Believers i won’t speak against any church
    by name in particular here in Connecticut i have been involved
    with three different Churches all fake sorry People
    that will help everyone accept the person standing next to them
    the lord went and found the lost sheep
    i actually has a pastor tell me he did not care if i attended service
    that was the last straw
    i really loved participating in service especially singing
    do you happen to know any churches that stand on who they say they are
    i am sure it is not the church but the differences between the congregations
    member favorite’s and clicks if you don ‘t fit in then
    chances are you won’t serve in any of the ministries and that is Sad
    not to mention a complete contradiction Have a blessed day and be blessed all

  19. Will Scholten on March 27, 2021 at 9:22 am

    I went to church 58 years of my life, where we are taught scripture alone, was a elder, deacon and high school youth leader with my wife, for many many years.
    Then I did a study on why the 3 biggest days in the church are nowhere in scripture, now I know none of the churches days are in the Bible!!!So who do you follow?
    examples;
    Passion week We are taught palm Sunday, Good Friday and Easter sunrise, that doesn’t fit the scripture, does it!
    If the Triumphant Entry was on a Sunday, ( the 10th of Nisan/Abib, when you choose your Passover lamb) Friday would be the 15th, right, that is a high Sabbath, Passover is on the 14th right!!! The sign of Jonah tells us He was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights, impossible to get that from sunset Friday to before sunrise on Sunday, right!!
    The scriptures tell us the Triumphant Entry was on a 7th day Sabbath, on the 10th, Passover was on a Wednesday, the 14th, in the grave just before sunset, 3 days and 3 nights latter would be on the 7th day Sabbath and He rose just before sunset, fits perfect!!!
    Why do you keep Christmas, most people know He was not born in Dec., so why listen to the world???
    Search me on youtube for my studies for proof ” Will Scholten”
    I now tell people if they are in the church, to run away, as fast as you can go, because they make sure, you will never make it past the fiery lake of sulfur!!!

    • Gordon on March 27, 2021 at 9:43 am

      We basically agreed on those days so that we would all celebrate and take remembrance to these events at the same time, and to replace all the pagan holidays so they wouldn’t be celebrated anymore. They never were supposed to be taken literally.
      The fighting about all of this within the empire prompted the emperor himself to hold all the orthodox bishops at gunpoint to come, agree to one plan, and stop quarreling about it (among other things).From out of Nicaea they stopped relying on the Hebrew calendar, and established Trinity Doctrine, which is also not directly in the Bible. Is that demonic too?
      What also came out of Nicea was the computus, to calculate Easter, with the rest of the holy week being shoved in wherever we thought to fit it. Then we eventually produced the lectionary, which is why the sermons on the radio all seem to be about similar things each Lord’s Day: every Sunday has scheduled sections of the Bible to teach on . It helps make sure cover the whole of the Bible.
      The traditions aren’t IN the Bible of course, but they’re useful. Paul wrote a lot about this. It’s okay to observe holidays as long as we celebrate them in God. (Romans 14).

    • Amanda on April 24, 2021 at 7:57 pm

      Greetings and blessing upon you, Will! I pray that you and all who read what follows will receive my comment in the love with which it is offered!

      I just wanted to refer everyone weighing this topic within their spirit to the book of Romans, chapter 14, v. 1-13, but to highlight verses 1, 5 & 6, and 13.

      Fellow believers, let’s not abandon our brothers and sisters because of their imperfections! Let us who love Jesus strive to be like Him, and to love one another without regard to faults and human frailty… Jesus himself, when confronted by the religious leaders of HIS day (see Luke 5:31-32) made it very clear that the people who would follow Him were SINNERS (aka: mistake-makers)… that means His church is going to be full of people who require… (drumroll,, please!)

      forgiveness.

      They WILL be imperfect. They WILL have faults. They WILL hurt your feelings, step on your toes, and one or two might even go so far as to kick at you when you’re down… but we’re told in plain speech that if WE won’t forgive one another, HE won’t forgive US, because He sacrificed His firstborn son to prove his love and make way for our forgiveness. If we can’t even forgive a little sting to our pride, do we truly know Him and His ways??

      I’m definitely NOT saying that there are no instances in which one needs to transplant into a new church family, however neither doubtful disputes nor personal offense, from what I glean from His Word, are those occasions (The Bait of Satan, by John Bevere is a great book on this topic, if anyone reads this far and are interested).

      No one can tell another person if the Holy Spirit is telling them to go or stay or if something is the right thing for them… just be sure it’s HIM, and not hurt feelings… otherwise, it just never seems to work out well. 🤷‍♀️

      I could say so much more, but I’ve occupied the soap box long enough! 😂

      Be blessed, brother!

    • Emma Price on May 2, 2021 at 10:49 pm

      Hi, I read your comment and I’m very confused on what you are arguing. Christians are told everyone in Scripture that they need the church, as it is referred to as the Bride of Christ, the Body of Christ, the family of Christ, and they ware the beacon of congregated believers that shows the world who Jesus is through their behavior and passion for Him. To run away from the church would be to deny scripture, and to deny Scripture, the word of God given to us by grace, is to call God a liar, and my God is not a liar, but a perfect judge who is sovereign in all things.

    • Matt Collins on May 17, 2021 at 8:29 am

      So you are not a Christian?

    • Lisa. B on June 5, 2021 at 7:59 pm

      You are correct!

      To learn the Truth search your bible it shows about Yahweh’s Holy feast day in the scriptures. Sabbath worship is on Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.
      And many other truths that’s not being taught in today’s society. And all the pagans man made Holidays. That ARE Not scriptures! Praise the Heavenly Father Yahweh In his son’s name Yahshua the Messiah! For his Holy Spirit for leading you to Truth!

      May Yah Bless you all on your journey.

    • Margaux on June 29, 2021 at 10:28 am

      Also why do they celebrate the Sabbath on Sunday if Sunday is the first day of the week?

  20. Connie on March 18, 2021 at 12:19 pm

    Wow! Lots of comments. I will keep this brief. I think you lose people if you go too long. The article is spot on. The Church is the bride of Christ.

    Are human churches imperfect, of course, we live in an imperfect world. But join a Bible believing Church and be a part of the solution, not the problem. God made us to worship with other believers, the church fosters this demand of God.

    You can not grow as a Christian if you don’t go to church and fellowship with other believers. If you stay out of church, you will forever be a baby Christian. That is not what God wants. Love God by obeying him and Love your neighbors by serving them. God bless.

    • Gordon on March 27, 2021 at 9:46 am

      True, though a season of hermitage can be useful from time to time. If only it weren’t involuntary!

      • andy on May 12, 2021 at 1:28 pm

        After readıng, this far ıt seems as though the writer ıs tryıng to prove something.

  21. FaithIsAGift on March 13, 2021 at 2:51 am

    In the modern church love, mercy and grace is reserved for the ones that fit. 48 years of going to churches has shown that. The blood stained allies always need an enemy to build the brotherhood on both close and far. If God is any part of church I want no part of God. Live in a firm belief the church threw God out and uses his blue print to build earthly kingdoms. If there is a lie in the church today it is pride in many ways. At least in american church in my opinion.

    • Iam on April 25, 2021 at 4:24 pm

      Dear hurt soul. It sounds like you have been deeply hurt and disappointed in the past. On behalf of all of us who follow Jesus, I apologize to you. I too have been hurt in the past but it wasn’t Jesus who did it. It was a few imperfect people in HIS Church.. But I was imperfect too.
      Anyway, it’s not fair nor logical at all to blame Jesus or His church for the faults of some others. To do so would show a major character flaw in myself. Believe, follow, love Jesus. Remember, HE taught to forgive in order to be forgiven. We must. Blessings.

  22. Cam Zafar on February 3, 2021 at 10:07 am

    New Testament is not what Jesus Christ taught or what his disciples wrote down. Nor is Old Testament what Moses taught. One doesn’t have to look outside the Bible to reach these conclusions. Most Christians have not read the Bible cover to cover. One’s who have, haven’t done so analytically. Please read “Age of Reason” by Thomas Paine thought by many to be among the Founding Fathers of America.

    It is closer to blasphemy than righteousness for God to have intercourse with a human being resulting in human-God hybrid.

    Note that if Christ was God, then all his suffering is fake. His true greatness lies in him being human and human only.

    We are not eternally condemned by God by having being born in sin w/o having a way out of it.

    There is absolutely no proof of Christ’s being divine, or having come back from the dead for atonement. These are claims without proofs.

    Christ taught us to worship the father just like he himself did.

    • David Lyons on February 8, 2021 at 9:12 am

      “Note that if Christ was God, then all his suffering is fake. His true greatness lies in him being human and human only.”

      This is the mystery of how Christ is both fully human and at the same time be fully divine. It is also a matter of the mystery of the Holy Trinity. There are many people today still trying to rob Christ of His glory. The choice is between the arrogance of human reason or faith!

      • Joella on February 8, 2021 at 1:10 pm

        What I believe Jesus was trying to teach was that we each are fully divine and fully human. His epiphany at his baptism was exactly that. his ability to call on God during his greatest temptations (which were very typical ego temptations) were about that. His telling people that their sins were forgiven was coming from his own experience of his sins not condemning him, not his having supernatural powers to forgive sins. if he taught that the greatest of the laws was to love God and neighbour, he was not saying Worship some avatar of divine/human capacities that you need to submit to in order to keep a wrathful God from punishing you. Avatars have served people throughout history, whether they be actual idols or heroes in books. The crime is trying to insist that your Avatar is the only one of any true value and that everyone else is condemned if they can’t accept yours.

        • Gordon on February 12, 2021 at 3:32 pm

          In antiquity, Christians believed that Jesus, like today, is the one true avatar of closeness to God, no questions asked. We are certain that the Son is the only way to the Father.
          Questions is if the Church is the only way to the son. I don’t believe that any more. I believe that ἀγάπη (in english translates to Charity when a noun and preferential love when a verb) is the way to Christ, and that the Church is the purposed teacher of αγάπη. This was ruined by Constantine, Athanasius, and Chrystosome among others.
          Also we must remember that what is translated as “faith,” “belief,” and “being convinced,” are all one word in greek, πίϛεως.

      • Aggeliki on March 9, 2021 at 9:35 am

        his suffering is not fake
        he suffered for us wretched beings

        Humans are gone they are lost

        Religion is within us going to church is going top visit God
        Jesus Christ The Virgin Mary

        never mind the people in the church
        unfortunately all humans were created by God
        but they do not all follow Jesus Christ as they should

        if Jesus Christ knows us not
        we will pass away and God will not know us
        he will say
        I know you not
        who are you

        we must visit Jesus Christ in his home
        we must build a relationship with him

        praying at home is not enough
        it helps
        but it is not enough

        we must confess our sins

        we must receive Holy Communion regularly

        • Philip Clinton Thompson Jr on March 10, 2021 at 7:45 am

          The Virgin Mary has nothing to do with anything homie. Go back and read the bible and quit putting importance on things that are not highlighted by God’s word.

    • Jim Scaggs on February 27, 2021 at 7:07 pm

      Hummm ok yeah Jesus did claim to be God and yeah Jesus rose from the dead

      • Peter on June 24, 2021 at 10:25 pm

        The church is man-made and Babylonian. The ekklesia is of God and the real Jerusalem.
        The root problem is that Ekklesia had been wrongly translated 113times as Church (no thanks to kjv 1611)

        • Jeff on June 30, 2021 at 10:33 pm

          A lot was wrongly translated/ used in church teachings, fathers, dogmas, practices and daily idolatry today and for almost 2000 years . Finding the truth, being ekklesia, is like being born again – it is not of man/ men are not capable to make themselves born again nor make themselves set apart. False teaching is basic throughout so-called ‘Christendom’ and all the world. Wickedness, as Scripture Says, is pernicious throughout all society, and worse, much worse, today, than ever before, including worst of all in the so-called churches. And medicine is the modern worldwide, over abundant, idolatry billions are going along with while serving demons.

    • Sarah on June 26, 2021 at 3:21 pm

      I agree.

  23. JEAN ANNE MATTOON on January 11, 2021 at 3:09 pm

    Yes, most churches are not emphasizing end time prophecy. But what are we to do? Not go to church simply for that reason? I myself attend such a church because I could find none better. They preach the gospel, and love Jesus! And that love shows in the members of the church. Yes, we can (and I myself do) listen to preachers who teach on end time prophecy. But they do not give us the Christian fellowship we so desperately need. I hope that current unfolding events will open their eyes to take a closer look at end time prophecy and match it up with what we are experiencing.

  24. Gordon on January 9, 2021 at 6:04 pm

    We aren’t sick of the organized Church because it’s imperfect. We’re sick of it because it is evil. It is rotten to the very core. Holy Spirit only moves in spite of it, not because of it.Christian worship is imitating Jesus, not licking his boots.
    Our Church preaches a God who arranged your birth in sin and threatens you with God’s infinite punishment if you follow your natural instincts and slip up once in your whole lifetime, then promises not to mete out that ridiculous punishment if you give it your money, confess its doctrine and do what says. That is not a liberating thing. It gives no freedom in Jesus, and denies God’s love in everything but direct profession.
    It makes the core of the Gospel into a sick and twisted doublethink: of God’s unstoppable love but even greater wrath; of Jesus beating Adam’s sin but even greater concupiscence and Original Sin; of a God who didn’t give up on us after Adam, but damns most of us for not kissing up; a God who is not the author of evil, but ordains it using proxies to do his dirty work.
    That’s not God. Any group that teaches this is a Mosque, not a Church. If this absurd evil can’t be reformed, then it needs to be burned down and rebuilt, just like the Temple.
    Every scientific, mystical or practical approach to God in the Church died 1600 years ago. All else is misanthropic brainwashing using selectively edited texts with the rest censored until archeologists dug up its buried feces. Its hearts and minds are shut, and it makes excuses for Crusaders, Slavetraders and Nazis. There’s nothing even remotely Holy about the church today except by coincidence.
    That’s why we’re sick of Church.

    • Mark on January 10, 2021 at 2:10 pm

      Does your church not preach a gospel of grace?

      • Gordon on January 10, 2021 at 3:52 pm

        Conditional grace isn’t grace at all, especially when the wrath is unconditional. Original Sin teaches that God hates you for who you are and how you were born, enough to torture infinitely if you don’t get right with him, never reforming or putting you out of your misery but sustaining you in torment to stroke his ego, unless you force him to have grace on you by hiding behind Jesus’s flesh. That’s a protection racket, not grace.

        • Mark on January 24, 2021 at 8:02 pm

          If that is the case, why are you a member of a church?

          • Gordon on January 24, 2021 at 8:15 pm

            Who says I am or ain’t? Which church do you mean: my town’s congregation, the Nicaean churches or the church universal? Does it matter?
            It’s neither here nor there regarding what I just said, though. We teach that sin is more powerful than grace, for sin cannot be chosen, while grace must be chosen.



        • Joella on February 7, 2021 at 1:26 pm

          I have had to deal with the evil of the “gospel” just as you describe, leading me to infer from the abuse I suffered in my family of origin that I must deserve to be sacrificed for the sake of others. It seems to me that those who find “salvation” in the church’s doctrines do not really pay attention to how what is taught is anathema to an all-loving God. Their emotional soothing from their sense of belonging and being somehow part of the chosen does not push them to really look at what you describe. The idea that a God of wrath is what causes the bad things in our world is from pre-scientific thought structures and from times before there was enough physical security to give time for theological debate. Most of the Old Testament was written during the Babylonian exile of the Northern Israelites when they actually lived in an empire that allowed much leisure time and had advanced writing, etc. What was included in the New Testament was greatly influenced by Augustine in the third century CE, a man who HATED his body and his sex drive in great degree because his mother, a fundamentalist believer in being “saved” the “Right” way, could not accept the son born to Augustine’s unbelieving and “unsaved” lover as a legitimate offspring. Augustine describes his choice of celibacy (his beloved died, as did his beloved son quite young) in his autobiography Confessions, where he is finally able to soothe his mother’s fears of his going to Hell by giving up love entirely. He so desires to be like his mother, who was, as he describes, a slave to his abusive father. How does this lead to what Jesus tried to teach about a “Daddy” who did NOT need sacrifices (why Jesus threw over the tables selling the dead creatures for sacrifice) except from our inner acceptance of God’s power to help us overcome our instinctive reactions that God created in us, not condemned us for (that is, finding how to allow “grace” to help us). Keep seeking for peace, Gordon. It is a worthy task that helps us create the thinking, caring, images of an all-loving God/world.

        • Al on March 14, 2021 at 10:51 am

          You are a self righteous hypocrite who likes to judge.

          • Gordon on March 14, 2021 at 7:07 pm

            How so?



      • James on June 3, 2021 at 7:58 pm

        Why not ! Grace is the number one thing we should have as Christians.
        Ray comfort…

    • Simon Watila on January 18, 2021 at 6:05 am

      Sir, if the Church you attend or attended is as bad as you say, then don’t give up. Try, try and try, again, and you will succeed at last. Keep looking for a better church, they are out there; at last you will find a good one. The author of the is article said it well, there is no perfection out there, whether it is in the church or our neighborhood, workplace or sports team. We are flawed. I, too stopped going to Church for years, but dropped into various churches over two decades until I attended a church on the campus of the University of Maiduguri, Nigeria, and had a great experience. I have been a member for over 6 years now and enjoying the experience.

      • Gordon on January 24, 2021 at 8:30 pm

        I can’t safely go to physical church right now. But what I have been able to do is compare doctrines that are presented to the world by the church through the internet, then compare them to the Bible, an interlinear, logical reasoning, and a sense of justice. And what I see when lining them up against each other is sickening.
        Someone is lying to us about God, and I am not going to abide by it.

        • Philip Immaraj on January 26, 2021 at 2:28 pm

          I wonder Gordon, who taught you about God being wrathful and allowed sin o be inflicted on His own creation so as to make them feel guilty and emotionally unsound so the frightened sheep have no choice because of the sheepdog nipping at our heels?
          I see a love story gleaned over years of patient study of God’s character, asking for insight from the Holy Spirit, forgetting all that is past and looking to the future in joy. The church embodies the joy in me despite all the ugliness I see everywhere around me. (Including the church). The result of my study of God’s character is the fruit of the Holy Spirit within me spreading love to others.
          Despite a story (reading between the lines of the Bible of a wrathful, contriving Despot, to get his sheep by whatever method!) I glean The Spirit of God beckoning me into an eternal safe haven ruled by Love among like-minded worshippers of their acknowledged Creator.
          So why do I go to church? I go to search for people to help. Both to minister to, learn from in humility esteeming the others. When others fail, flail, or fault then my love inspires me to worship and pray or sing with them, to walk along with them as some have walked with me. I love to journey giving a helping hand or teaching the younger and learning from the older.
          When members in my family struggle with me, they have a safe family to get help from. When my relatives are far away, they become my family to celebrate with!!

          I can see you have a deep, thoughtful insight into the OT God and also of the NT Jesus but wondering where exactly does the church fit in.
          This pathetic, bumbling set of egotistical, zealous misdirected disciples (actually think of the “chosen” Twelve) transform after death to be a righteous Bride.

        • Kai on February 12, 2021 at 1:51 pm

          People can’t seem to get it, QUESTION everything. How do you Chris h going folks not see that there are many churches that in fact leech in its meme era and actively spread false word. There’s more evil entwined in Christianity than people want to admit. Have faith, believe in what you want! But if you can’t looked deeper into what you are following you never cared in the first place. You are not doing justice to yourself if you’re not willing to find the truth for your own conclusions.
          There have been thousands of civilizations all with their own cultures and religions and yet we’re just supposed to write those off and suppress them because it doesn’t fit Christianity? Buddhism, Hinduism, belief in spirituality Both have been around far longer than Christianity, Judaism or Muslim beliefs. And yet we’ve actively killed, raped and destroyed centuries of information and peoples birth rights under the name of “God” and missionaries. You can’t force a religion on millions of people around the world and not expect those to question the lies and false facts around. How are you supposed to believe in 6 different versions of a book that is just an amalgamation of a bunch of stories put together by a select few people who could read and write. Leaving out millions of people to be lied to our have the gospel used against them.
          Again, you should be able to have faith in whatever YOU chose to believe in. But to be blind is to be stripped of the truth you seek, never just sit there and accept your fate. Challenge it, shape your life. The power resides in us. We are the only ones who give power to the names in which we speak. Gods have come and go due to these modern religious views and it’s sickening to see how many sheep don’t care.

    • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 5:12 am

      Wow..😯

      • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 5:58 am

        You want to see people get up in arms and angry? Talk about the Christian Church! Not Muslim, Buddhism, Hindu or even atheism. Why? Because Satan hates followers of Christ. Actually he hates everyone because we are all made in God’s image. But he doesn’t want us teaching the Gospel to the world and making disciples, which is Jesus’ mandate.

        • Gordon on January 23, 2021 at 7:11 am

          Disciples? The church makes converts, not disciples. I don’t hate followers of Christ. I hate the organized church because of its malice and doctrine and added subtext to the gospel. Your personal attacks and calling me a servant of the devil (especially when accusing me of especially persecuting Christianity and conveniently forgetting how much worse the Jews have things) doesn’t help its case. My hate is against the church’s blasphemous inconsistency, doublethink, and the lies it says without words. I hate the Pseudo-Zeus Emperor-God it preaches, who is afraid of sin and ‘loves’ [a select few of] us only out of obligation to his Son and nothing else. The church’s gospel is functionally this: “You deserve to be tortured forever because you made a decision God doesn’t like. Join us, and you won’t.”
          Boil away all the reasonings, dressings, decoration and buzzwords, and right there you see the rotten core of our doctrine. Did Jesus teach this? If it were true, wouldn’t Jesus have said a little more about how you should avoid his father whose wrath he alone holds back?

    • Jennifer on January 24, 2021 at 11:49 am

      The entire premise is broken… “Faith IN Christ”? That’s nothing compared to the “Faith OF Christ”… which comes ONLY from within by Spirit.

    • Christopher Daniel Spurling on January 26, 2021 at 5:54 am

      Nailed it, couldn’t be more truthful about the situation. The church has been apostate for along time I woke up to it when I was 14, I am now 40 and it’s only became way worse. If we want to bring the body of Christ back to a building so bad then perhaps we need to throw out the false teachers first or bring them to the light and repentance then maybe we can congregate within the walls once again.

    • Pamela Nadzan on January 26, 2021 at 10:31 am

      You need to find a new church. Mine isn’t like that. It is like a family where we are all learning and growing in Christ.

    • Sherry on January 30, 2021 at 2:27 pm

      One of my favourite verses is 1 Peter 3:15 “…But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and (be) ready always to (give) an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear (respect)”.

      That’s one tall order when you can’t put on the armour of God without the fruit of the Spirit.
      The world has always been in a crazy state of survival of the fittest.
      My Mom was an atheist and my Dad was so, so angry at God that it terrified me. Nothing Luke warm there and I now don’t know where they are for certain. But I know God is Great and His love is unfathomable. So, I can’t judge but instead seek forgiveness in my foolish, sinful state to love with the fruit of the Spirit. I trust Christ Jesus to work out the rest.

      I think the church is pretty much in the same state; like children in a school yard.
      The church will always be mixed up in politics (I think) since it’s about the Kingdom of God and His Sovereignty.

    • Philip Clinton Thompson Jr on February 11, 2021 at 7:48 pm

      I don’t know what church you have been attending but I have attended several and grew up in the church and never have thought of God as a God of wrath and that I had to earn salvation. I have always felt that his grace was overflowing, maybe even to a fault I have never felt shame at least consciously. Perhaps it is based on how we are raised by our parents to instill unconditional love in us. I was fortunate in that with my earthly parents and I think that is why I see God that way perhaps…

    • Alfred on March 14, 2021 at 10:47 am

      You sound very judgmental

      • Gordon on March 18, 2021 at 1:41 pm

        I am not the judge, but the grand jury. The grand jury gives an indictment as a witness. Its judgement is only a recommendation, but the conviction is for the petit jury, and the sentence is for the judge. The Spirit is the petit Jury, who alone may convict, and the judge is the Truth, who is Christ.

  25. Rod DeFigh on January 9, 2021 at 3:01 pm

    What is a thing that we create to improve a life that needs more than external glamour when the calamine runs dry. It will be the nurturing of entanglements that shun our enlightened pathways which in turn keep us longing for the better way of existing.
    I find an explicit soliloquy put forth in a casual way to be a mechanism intended for exposure of true thought but only if parlayed with confidential underpinnings. Practitioners of generous assurances can offer advice essential to the advancement of our stature among the constituency provided we are able to avoid flagrant disregard.
    All contagions portend our depleted willingness for building a simpler horizon of peaceful extensions of goodness that reach the corners of our minds.

    • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 5:15 am

      Rod, you’re very intense…have a beer..lighten up! 😂😆

      • ruthie on May 6, 2021 at 11:28 am

        excuse me have a beer!? stupid I love god love god with all your heart or burn in hell
        he literally died for us on the cross when we were the ones who were supposed to die in hell you-

        • Gordon on May 6, 2021 at 11:37 am

          Who arranged our birth in sin? Who wrote the law to empower sin? Who knitted our flesh together with its sinful nature? Who created the Devil? Whose justice system makes us deserve hell? Who gives us faith; who denies us faith? Who sends hurricanes and causes earthquakes? Who rules the hearts of kings and dictators? Who compounds our guilt for knowing too much? Who reigns sovereign amidst genocide and war crimes?
          Knowing the answer to all these questions, I’d want a beer if I drank beer.

  26. Bob on December 30, 2020 at 11:19 am

    Most of the “pro-church” comments here are irrelevant: they do not address the fact that much (to a substantial degree, all) of what the institutional church does is time-wasting crap: the modern church is essentially a device to reassure the conventional, middle-class, nuclear family that it is doing the “right thing.”

    • Mark on January 10, 2021 at 2:15 pm

      I agree with you, 90% of the money that is given to church goes to Salaries and a mortgage, I can see no parallel to that in the church that we find in the acts of the apostles. I personally am getting disillusioned with paying a huge mortgage whilst people are sleeping on the streets. I would rather stop attending church and buy food for the homeless.

      • Ray on January 21, 2021 at 12:33 pm

        To Mark and all who are unhappy with the lack of Christian outreach from the church to the community:
        Become the catalyst for change, urging others into ministry in ways that work for your church. The church is the congregation and the love must start there. You may find something that speaks to your heart and you begin speaking to your Sunday School or Bible Study class, or a simple announcement for anyone interested to meet after church over lunch. Maybe you aren’t able to actually assist in the ministry right away, but you can still be the one who helps to find the people who start new ministries. Our church has ladies who collect donations of fabric and sew sleeping bags, some collect toiletries for giving out to the homeless, others collect leftover/donated yarn to crochet scarves and hats, others collect money to feed breakfast to the nearby elementary school children, some work in the food ministry, others work to maintain abandoned cemeteries, some collect donations for a twice-yearly yard sale with proceeds going to an oversees mission group The list is endless if you look around your own community for needs that you can help to fill. You may not put an end or completely fill a need, but if you start something, another church group may join to help. Whatever you do to help others will be blessed and will multiply, and it will bring an unlimited sense of fulfillment to those in your congregation who are blessed to help. Nothing causes the spirit to fill the church any greater, in my mind, than coming together in His name for the benefit of others.

        • Mark on January 21, 2021 at 5:54 pm

          So here is the position I am in. There is a local Christian based food bank nearby, my wife volunteers there weekly, I have just retired and will be doing the same as soon as it is safe to do so. It is Christian based and the recipients of help relieve Christian council whenever they are there. That food bank reaches far more people than our church could ever hope to do, far more would be achieved by donating my tithe to the food bank than the UMC

          • Gordon on January 31, 2021 at 9:39 am

            You are allowed to make your checks out to specific ministries within the UMC (ask the congregation’s finance office to make certain.) My congregation before the pandemic has/had a messianic Jew who took great care to make sure his offerings didn’t go to any part of the UMC ran or entrusted by any antisemites. He wrote his checks to, I think some certain youth program.
            I’ll never fully appreciate the value he added to our Sunday School- he taught on the 3rd Sunday and helped us learn the lost memories of the earliest church, and the virtues, vices, and trials of Judaism and Jewry across the ages.
            You can do the same with avoiding giving cash to those promoting free divorce or homosexual wedding, racial conflict or vengeance, hostility towards migrants, oppressing citizens for migrants’ favors, or whatever most has your attention.



        • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 5:21 am

          Wow Ray! Your church sounds great! It probably isn’t in New York huh?

          • Ray on February 4, 2021 at 12:19 pm

            Sharon, ha,ha! No, I’m in the Bible Belt South in the heart of Georgia. But I will also have to admit that my wife and I had to search through more than fifteen churches looking for one where we saw the kind of love for others that we found at this church. And that is the definition of what is wrong in the church, when love is so hard to locate. But I learned from this church that all I really needed to do at my old church, instead of leaving, was to make a change in ministries. The sad part is that I never even considered all of the different things we could do to make a difference in our community and how it could transform the church where I was at. And that is the major point I want to make to everyone – we can be the catalyst for change and start the revolution we want to see in the church. I was blinded by what had become acceptable and normal in ‘my’ church and was simply unable to consider what could be done until we found this church in 2012. Since then I have found a new sense of what the church was meant to be.



  27. Andrew on December 27, 2020 at 7:24 am

    What a great article, I really enjoyed it – thank you. After all, how do we learn to forgive if we don’t have anyone we need to forgive? All the virtues Christ teaches us require continual practice – and weekly church is the perfect forum for that practice to take place – as we are all perfect test specimens to help develop one another’s love and patience! Another good article on a similar theme can be found here: https://www.gregtrimble.com/what-to-do-if-you-dont-want-to-sustain-a-church-leader/

  28. Pastrix Rachel Teresa on December 26, 2020 at 2:52 pm

    I started an online church blog dedicated to reaching Transgendered Women like me. Before you judge, Jesus and Him Crucified is the message. Holiness is taught and I explain full how some people become Transgender and what they can do and not do. So, yes, I do call homosexual/lesbian sex a sin, which it is. I’m very open about why I am trans (sex abuse at a young age and years and years of emotional abuse that followed). But, I also explain God will accept you as Trans, which is not a sin. The Holy Spirit writes the sermons lot me. Being Trans is not a sin, but gay/lesbian sex most certainly is a sin. At any rate, the Holy Spirit has made it successful worldwide. I’m amazed at how hungry some are for the real Christianity (Jesus as center, repentance and salvation, Holiness, Baptism of the Holy Spirit). I suspect a lot of people that aren’t trans read the blog.

    I’ve contacted a few ministers and none have ever written me back even though I told them my story and what I believe. When God called me to this ministry, the dream said I’d be pretty much alone in doing it. Satan has definitely attacked me a lot for doing it. Salvation is the main message.

    But, in the past, I suspect because I’m very feminine (even though I never told anyone I was trans in the churches I went to), I was rejected everywhere. Most women think I’m gay so they rejected me for years. I’m an Eunuch because of my sex abuse and have no interests in marriage to anyone. I’m married to Jesus anyway. I’m not into men, and not really into women. God showed me that. I wish I could find a church, but I’ve come to realize I’m never going to be accepted anywhere just like many in the Bible were never accepted. I’m not a compromising type. Sin is sin, regardless of whether or not that’s popular. Jesus is the center to my life, not some church denomination or belief. I saw that a lot in churches. I also don’t think churches should get in bed with politics either.

    But, the thing I notice about churches is this: why are the so judgemental if you don’t look and act like you? I’m poor so I know that’s why I was never invited in.

    Honestly: churches talk a big game of inclusion and really do no such thing. I called out the last church I went to on that in 2019. Boy, was the woman angry about that.

    Honestly, I think churches put marriage up as an idol A LOT!

    Honestly, I think churches make money too much of a big deal.

    So, what should we do? I’ll be blunt—I think we need to go back to the early church. A Jesus centered life of service to others. We meet in each other’s homes for church, or it’s a small church of 100 or less. I actually have wondered if these huge churches are all that Biblical. The biggest church in America, Joel Osteen’s, is nothing short of heresy and a weak, watered-down blessing ministry. At any rate, the center of all sermons should be Jesus NOT US! Too many churches preach me, me, me when they should be preaching Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. And, for God sakes, lose the pop psychology and the prosperity Gospel. It is not God’s job to be your shrink, or God’s job to be your sugar daddy. Yes, the Holy Spirit will fix you if you let Him. God loves to fix broken people.

    Also, notice how many churches don’t preach about a relationship with Jesus? I tell people–talk to God/Jesus/Holy Spirit just like you would a best friend. Tell Him everything about you. Hopes, dreams, successes, failures. If you’re mad at Jesus, let Him have it. If you are head over heels in love with Jesus, tell Him that, too. Jesus is your Husband, your best friend, your King. God desires a relationship where you tell him everything more than anything you can ever do. I’ve told Jesus/God, I love you, I’m ticked at you, yelled at Him, everything under the sun, and told Him all kinds of sweet nothings. We even argued. That’s what Jesus really wants from you. And, if you don’t give it to Him, one day, he might just say, “Depart from me, I never knew you.” Jesus wants to know you. That’s what God desires from you more than anything.

    I challenge you to visit my church and drop me a line.

    • Sharon on December 30, 2020 at 11:14 am

      We are all flawed broken hearted and cast aside by our world ! But not Jesus’s he has “Overcome the world “!John 16: 33 God loves us ! God is love ! 1John 4 :7-21 Jesus picks up every piece and puts me back together! Jesus’s restores me “Broken and Beautiful “ ! Unless I step out of the darkness into his glorious light ! Crying out to my Heavenly Father asking for forgiveness of my sins trusting in his precious promises! Forgiving those that have hurt me ! We need to demonstrate genuine love that means show my vulnerability be gentle , humble and empathetic to those that are hurting! The church looks to much at appearances . For the Lord sees not as man sees for man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart 1 Samuel 16 :17 If we are not real to each other loving one another then it becomes man made religious” IDOLATRY “instead of what God created the beauty of intimacy true fellowship ! Gods family ! My heart deeply goes out to those that have been hurt by the church! But we need to look beyond the pain and see Christ’s church through his loving eyes he paid the price through his sacrificial love so we can be free and love a broken fallen world that desperately needs his love !

    • Jay on January 5, 2021 at 2:21 pm

      Hello to the trans commentor, I am also trans (ftm) and agree with every word you say. It’s amazing how God works, i was googling how to deal with feelings about leaving a Church who pressure me to fellowship every day.
      I wish I had time and energy to take this ‘daily bread’ because I learn a lot in Bible studies. however I have a business to run and people to serve, God blessed me with specific talents that I would be sinning if I did not use the skills.
      I feel so much shame for not attending their fellowship more than 2 times a week. And they don’t even know I am trans.
      I would love to get in contact and visit your online blog.
      What are the details?
      With love, In Christ
      Jay

    • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 5:42 am

      hi Rachel, thank you for the wonderful insightful letter. You are soo honest and you are speaking truth from your ❤️. You r right, homosexuality is not a sin UNTIL a person acts on it. Which is clearly stated in the first chapter of the book of Romans Chapter 1. I’m sorry want you went through in the various churches you tried to join. I’ve been telling people for years that many homosexuals became that way because of abuse as children and teens. Thank you for telling your story . I have many homosexuals in my family and they were ALL sexual abused as children. May God bless you!

      • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 5:49 am

        And also God/Jesus does want a relationship with us. And just like any relationship it must grow. Some people give up to early. My relationship is still growing everyday and i continue to make mistakes, but He never gives up on me. I could right a book on it, but I like to tell people instead, but who knows? Maybe one day I will..

      • Pastrix Rachel Teresa on January 31, 2021 at 12:37 pm

        Sharon,

        Thank you so much! Yeah, everyone is allowed to have fantasies. We are human. I’ve written lots of erotic novels and nothing wrong with that either—it is fantasy. Like you said, it is the actually doing it that is a sin. Yep, sex abuse of kids affects about 20-25% of the population in America and that results in most of the LGBT (the Q and + I find ridiculous–you are either gay, lesbian or straight. The Bi thing is a farce). That terrible sin changes people. But, Jesus can restore. That’s something between the individual and God—no, I think reparative therapy is wrong since it forces. God doesn’t force. Jesus said he came to heal the broken hearted not condemn them. The church needs to take people as they are because God does. It’s the Holy Spirit’s job to clean the fish after He catches them not us. He knows what He’s doing not us.

        As for me, I’m 52 and been a female inside a man’s body since I was raped at 3 1/2 years old. Could God restore me? Sure, but sometimes the cure is worse than the disease, as they say. I also have no interest in being male inside to match my male body. I’m not into dudes so don’t even have gay thoughts. Honestly, unlike men who like men and women who like women, I think Trans is rare. Gay/Lesbian is pretty rare already at 2% of the population. But, true Trans is even more rare. I’ve met some that even have transitioned and they really aren’t Trans. Therapists really aren’t doing such people any favors just agreeing with them without really looking at how they feel, how they act, and what they like. It’s inside not outside that matters. God looks at the heart not the body.

        Much love,
        Rachel

        • Bobby Sue on February 4, 2021 at 2:37 pm

          I’m sorry for the sexual abuse that you endured as a child. I can relate. However, I have to ask, if you believe that homosexuality is a sin and that Jesus can heal and restore all things, why not allow Him to heal and restore ALL of you?

          I still believe that God created two genders and that He never intended for us to try to play God and change that. However, I know that God is a loving and just God…and is a healer. Ask Him.

          • Pastrix Rachel Teresa on February 9, 2021 at 7:30 am

            No, I don’t believe that. Homosexual sex is a sin. Being LGBT isn’t. I’m not Gay. I have no interest in men, period. I really don’t have much interest in women. Honestly, why would God “cure” me? That would ruin my testimony to other Trans peeps. No offense, whatsoever, but what would He restore me to exactly? Being male? I’ve been this way since 3.5 years old, which is 49 years. Pretty much means I’ve always been this way. I have zero interest in suddenly liking working on cars, being a sports nut or into building things. God called me “Rachel” and has given me dreams as Rachel, and we are going to ride this train into eternity. There really is no turning back. 99% of the church had no use for me before and I don’t expect that to change. I’m into winning souls not bake sales, wearing fancy clothes and playing a role. The Bible says, “the kingdom of Heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force.” (Matt 11:12). If I was male, would the fire burn? Probably not. I was made for a time like this. I want that crown of soul winning to lay at my Husband Jesus’s feet. And, I’m going to get it. And, take a lot of people to heaven with me. Kicking, screaming, being offended, I don’t care. Who was at the Cross? The women. I’m glad Jesus called me Rachel. I consider it an honor and there ain’t no turning back now.



    • Gordon on January 31, 2021 at 10:18 am

      “why are the so judgemental if you don’t look and act like you? I’m poor so I know that’s why I was never invited in.”
      Remember, when in Rome… if you wear shiny noserings and dye your hair blue while in the midst of a congregation of plaindress anabaptists whose every article of clothing is made from reclaimed bluejeans, you’re gonna look like you’re there for the attention. In some countries when first visited by missionaries, women going topless was normal, while holding hands in public was disgustingly indecent.
      Regarding the pop-psych church vs a God of healing, here’s some advice that I actually follow: brutal and nigh-blasphemous honesty with God is more than acceptable in His sight. Remember Job. The prosecution in heaven’s court will demand we be tested. We can’t scandalize or shock God or make Him clutch his pearls when we outright admit the thoughts we already harbor in our hearts. I often pray thus:
      “Holy Spirit, I don’t trust you. I really don’t. And I still like my sin, and I don’t trust you’ll replace it with something better. I think it’s your fault, God. You did this and it’s all your fault! Am I wrong? Yes! It’s a lie, but I still believe it. And I refuse to believe otherwise in my stone heart. Your world is a mess, free will is a curse, and your church is a failure. You want to wrestle? I don’t care if you dislocate my hip; I don’t care if you have to tear my leg off to make me humble in the end: I’m not letting go until you bless me!
      “Am I being arrogant, God? Yes! I’m being arrogant! Filthily arrogant! I’m irreverent and disrespectful to the universal sovereign, and I want to rule you! You know this more than I do. I can’t lie. Behold my repulsive attitude! Look at my heart and see the necrosis and ignorance!
      “And if I can be humbled without it being too painful, then I beg you in my arrogance you do so. Soften my heart for cheerful obedience. Let me serve you the way I want to, by making serving you how you want me to- become what I want to do. I can’t do that kind of transformation, and you know it. You’ll have to do it for me. I can’t do **** unless you bless it. I can’t or won’t repent. Have mercy on me, your blind creature of the earth. Nothing else can change me. You are my only hope, and I despise you deeply in spite of your love for me.”

    • Joella on February 7, 2021 at 1:30 pm

      Part of why the church can seem so condemning is exactly what you are voicing in your own condemnation of homosexual marriage. When being able to physically change gender was not available (ans still is not to most people in the world!), trans would appear to be homosexual to anyone else. Statistics actually show that there is way less domestic abuse and divorce, with the harm to the children that goes with all that, in same sex parental families. Would this loving God of yours condemn these people for living a truly loving family?

      • Gordon on February 9, 2021 at 11:28 am

        Haven’t you read Romans 1? Giving in to unnatural lust is an abuse of the body. The familial relationship you describe is not sin; the lust and the aberrant sexual relation is. It’s what monastic life is for. It isn’t as enormous as hatred or pride, but we will still answer for it. It is not to be romanticized. It still isn’t a good thing.

        • Joella on February 9, 2021 at 7:23 pm

          Giving in to lust, whether natural or not, is certainly not what I am talking about. Paul is not always saying the same things through his letters, so to take what was “natural” in his day would allow women to still be cast into penury because they were not obeying their husbands. My point is that love is love. Defining it by gender or by whose authority is today defining “natural” or not allows for condemnation and blocks the flow of the love that Jesus was trying to show us.

          • Gordon on February 9, 2021 at 7:40 pm

            Gender is defined by chromosomes. We know that the presence of a Y is always going to be make without exception. We can better define it than they in Paul’s day could, just like we can better understand infection than Moses’ expression in Leviticus. Normalizing abuse of women as natural doesn’t normalize homosexual act as natural, nor polygamy that rises from the culture that abuses women. Neither is normal, nor should be. And they aren’t condemned. They are convicted, prayed over, and abandoned. They are diagnosed. Condemnation is for those who keep on sinning, promote it, or cause schisms in the community. Those who do that are to be shunned.
            You can’t remove sin by redefining what a sin is and isn’t. I could use the same exact arguments you use about barriers to love to promote incest, but nobody’s going to legitimize that or call it normal any time soon, nor pornography. I can’t call me and by hentai waifu ‘marriage’ any more than my aberrant sexual relationship a marriage. It’s a sinful act.



  29. Jim Toole on December 26, 2020 at 1:36 pm

    No one truly living in the spirit can agree with the humanistic contrived corporate religious church concept. All that has ever resulted from this is straying from “God’s purposed Way” and the fragmentation of the Church [Body of Christ] into a myriad of religions, denominations, sects, on and on. God never intended for Jesus to be on home confinement! God never intended for us to scholastically/academically teach Christ. We are called to reflect Christ into the society. Our primary guide is the Holy Spirit not some human titled corporate executive.

  30. B Toups on December 16, 2020 at 7:19 pm

    The problem with the church is the social pressures placed upon attendees. No, I don’t want to spend 3/4 of the time singing hymns. No, I don’t agree with the nonsensical Biblical interpretation given by the unqualified charlatan standing at the pulpit. No, I don’t want to go protest against women’s right to choose. No, I don’t want to discriminate against the LGBTQ community. No, I would never consider enrolling your non-insurance Christian health plan. No, I don’t agree that the church needs to build a new building.

  31. Disciple of Christ (He knows my name) on November 24, 2020 at 5:20 am

    I’m tempted not to comment but…
    Look up the word ‘Ekklesia’. this is Greek for ‘the called out ones’. That’s church, not a building, not a pastor, not a programme, not a kids club, not financially driven and so on. There is so much false and lukewarm teaching in so called church, Jesus hates it. Scripture is clear, he will spit you out or he will throw the dried up branches into the fire. Come on people wake up! Our great commission is to ‘go out’ into the world and share the good news, not ‘stay in’ and pat each other on the back. Jesus was radical, he challenged the hypocrites of that time both in the synagogues and in public. Do you see that in churches? they just lie down and confirm to the ways of the world with gay vicars, no true repentance, have no idea about casting out demons, don’t know what they are doing where baptism of the holy spirit is concerned or true repentance that leads to Godly sorry and then water baptism. There is so much wrong with the organised church. I speak form experience of it always failing me and never properly teaching me how to be a true disciple because they literally don’t know how and don’t want to know.
    Praise our saviour Jesus Christ who finally pulled me out of it and showed me the truth!
    The church has a massive spirit of bindless and mammon over it. I’ve seen it full blown many, many times. Lead pastors who have a porn addiction and no one challenges it or tries to cast out that demon, pastors who are quite happy baptising people who are sleeping with their partner, countless people who are infected with the kundalini spirit that masquerades as the holy spirit. Shall I go on?
    The caveat is, because of His marvellous grace, there are some true believers in these church’s (not many) but they are stuck and tied down by the system. There is an old saying “You can’t see the wood for the trees”.
    If that’s you and you are stuck under the pyramidal church system, I pray you walk out now and seek the watchmen and disciples in your area. We individually have to answer to our Lord on the day of judgment. You can’t blame the pastor of your church or anyone else if you ignore scripture and accept a watered down gospel.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 24, 2020 at 10:58 am

      :^D

      Praise God for saving all whom He knew from before the world began.

      Don’t worry. Keep looking at Him, moved by His grace and letting Him find you.

      It ain’t over yet!

      Pray for your enemy, that they would become Christians. Pray even more for your siblings in Christ, that they would seek His face, be moved by His grace and let Him find them more and more!

      What’s the dividing line between Church and World? 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 and Romans 10:9, 10, 13. Only, exactly that.

    • Lana Smiley on November 27, 2020 at 9:10 pm

      Oh, bless my soul, thank you for your eloquent truths
      Don’t think anyone could have said it better! Thank you.

    • VAL on December 1, 2020 at 3:02 pm

      This is so profound. Thank you. I would like to suggest that people watch the last reformation. Old movie but loaded with truths. The current church has strayed much from the pattern of the early church. Church is in the streets, marketplace and not confined to four walls. the only time we should gather like that is to eat our grain and then go out and distribute

    • DARRIBELLE DIEHL on December 13, 2020 at 7:14 am

      There is a congregation that is continually growing in population. There is a congregation that is sharing good news to thd world in over 1,000 languages. Clearly that congregation has the right motivation that will not be spit out or burned in fire when this evil world has it’s comeuppance.
      Ask google what website has the most translated information.

    • Set free on December 15, 2020 at 3:59 am

      Absolutely love this comment I feel exactly the same way, preaching became motivational sermons and not Godly sermons there are no fear of God in them and that upsets me so much. Just want to thank you for the comment because a lot of believers feel the same way.

  32. Anonymous on November 11, 2020 at 4:41 am

    God and Jesus both suck.

    • 1 John 1:9 on November 14, 2020 at 3:38 pm

      Another validating example of God’s grace and mercy.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 14, 2020 at 4:05 pm

        “Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?”

        Romans 9:19-24

        • Kester on November 19, 2020 at 10:18 am

          why use an antique translation which is almost as hard to read as the original ancient Greek?! I’m going to look it up in the NRSV or New Jerusalem translations, but I can’t stand all that theeing and thouing and hast and wilt and pompous archaic language.

          • Jeremy Bickel on November 19, 2020 at 12:50 pm

            It’s a better translation, because it’s from better manuscripts. I also like the way it sounds. Does this satisfy your sarcastic hatred? If not, then at least walk away with the knowledge that that your questions are not really connected to your feelings about this.

            As to the point of the verses in this context, we are all evil, and God is gracious to those who suck and the hatefully sarcastic and He is even merciful to me. God is merciful, even to His enemies and to those whom He has converted from being His enemies by His greatly strong mercy. However you seek it, find this truth about He Who is Truth, and His capability covers even deep evil in those who verbally confess His name in belief of the tenets of Christ’s gospel in sincerity (Romans 10:9, 10, 13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-8).



          • Gordon on May 10, 2021 at 12:10 am

            The thees and thous are actually really helpful once you know how they work. If we kept the thou-form in English today, it would rhyme with “you” instead of “how.”

            “Thou art” one person, and only exactly one person.
            “Ye are” multiple people (or royalty).

            I have my stuff delivered to me, because it’s mine.
            Thou hast thy stuff delivered to thee because it’s thine.
            Ye have your stuff delivered to you because it’s yours.
            MOVEABLE N:
            AN apple is A fruit.
            MiNE apple is my fruit.
            ThiNE apple is thy fruit.

            “Hence” means “from here,”
            Thence from there.
            Whence from where.
            Hither “to here,”
            thither to there,
            whither to wherever
            yonder to beyond.



        • Gordon on May 10, 2021 at 12:24 am

          Because God’s right to freely choose any one nation (since has to choose one and only one) to bring forth the messiah and to teach the other nations God’s laws, and making countries his tools (vessels) to punish Israel when he determines to,,,
          automatically means that God does the exact same in sending individuals to heaven and hell?
          Okay, Calvin. Tell me what other secret meanings you have taken out of the Bible’s context.

          If you read the book of Romans in any context except that of Rome, which had just removed its law barring Jews from Rome, meaning new friction deceloped between Greek and Jewish Christians in the city, and Paul wants the problem solved,
          If you read the book of Romans as about anything other than Jewish-Greek relations in and out of Christ, your reading is wrong. End of story, no exceptions.

          If you think Paul’s statements about women to Ephesus and Timothy are not in the context of their church being in the shadow of the Temple of Artemis, whose many ex-prostitutes have entered the church there and started teaching that Eve was made first, your reading is wrong.

    • The Scarlet Pimpernel on November 16, 2020 at 2:54 pm

      So, you admit they exist. That’s a good place to begin. However, your statement isn’t an argument.

  33. Gary on October 25, 2020 at 12:12 pm

    I would admit there are things in your letter that are true but the church organization as a whole seems to be broken. and i am not sure what the fix is I obviously haven’t prayed every morning with other believers like you suggested. I have supported the organizational church for yrs through the tithe and offerings and like clockwork every service during the announcements they hype how they want you to tithe because its good for you not the organization I personally have gotten so tired of hearing it even as a giver, I am beginning to think this is some sort of hypocrisy, the organization ask the Church (the people) to trust god with there finances, when they stand up front and beg manipulate and intimidate the church into giving money. If a church organization can’t survive financially by preaching the gospel, teaching on righteousness and walking after the spirit not after the flesh with an occasional message on tithing and giving and then trusting god to work in the people to give joyfully, then I believe just maybe that church organization shouldn’t survive.

    • Carl Bowles on November 15, 2020 at 6:43 am

      Yes definitely we need to come together as believers as we all come from different backgrounds all working together. Towards one common goal loving GOD worship while releasing more of are sin filled self’s selves to the new Christ center self.
      But we do not get to pick our family where we are born
      A good portion of our life’s we don’t have control of…
      GOD does certainly steer us whether Christian or no Christian throughout our life to relationship with him.
      I find that church’s don’t recognize the central theme GOD WANTS RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU /ME
      if that is the theme do we pray for the sick to be healed or pray they get a relationship or better relationship during this time. Do we ask GOD for whatever or ask that we get a better relationship? In all our experiences
      I have tried to figure out my past experiences myself and with other pastor’s only to be asked to leave there church.
      Like your church bye ?!?! The current pastor saids
      Interesting

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 15, 2020 at 7:14 am

        Our relationship with God is built from knowing and doing the truth that is found in the Bible. The Bible is very straightforward about what God wants. For us, there are specific statements of right behavior given – pray without ceasing, take every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, confess our faults to each other and convince, exhort, and rebuke each other with longsuffering and teaching. If you do what you know God has said, then that’s all you can do – continue to try. Encourage the saints you know to stand up in love. Read the Bible with each other and talk about it, remembering that no Scripture is of any private interpretation. Don’t all give your opinions of what it means – it means definite things; verse-by-verse Bible teaching, with background and explanations, is an excellent activity. Tom Nelson of Denton Bible Church is one such Bible teacher (dbcmedia.org). Go through the Bible together with one or two other Christians on a regular basis. Be open with each other and pray for the needs of each other (and not only for the physical and soulish needs, but for spiritual things, like believing truth and rejecting lies and standing up in ourselves for what we know is right and against what we know is wrong, and for God to show us Himself, His love, His will for our lives, which we learn by reading the Bible).

        If you do these things, ask God to make you find pastors who do them in churches close to you that you can go to.

      • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 6:11 am

        Carl, there is Andrew wommack church..google it on line church organization. You can read the different people and their stories and also Andrew’s. They teach relationship with Jesus. God bless

    • lawrence law on November 18, 2020 at 4:39 am

      Well said!

      • Brenda SnipesBrenda snipes on December 27, 2020 at 1:09 am

        Lord said in the day u seek me with a l l ur heart u will find me my sheep know my voice another they will not follow he will say in that day but when did we see u hungry an feed u naked an clothe u etc. When u did it to the least of one of these u did it to me enter in he never said what church they belonged to they didn’t even know him in the person they were helping he tries our heart not our church people need to be careful what they do an to who he said to the least of these yet they never knew who he was it’s sort of like the old saying he knows when u been good or bad esp. to humans he said love me keepy command to love sure people make mistakes we all do but remember book of acts the church three thousand in one day why everybody did not say my four an no more greatest revival why God was well pleased they laid what they had at apotles feet if u had a washer I had one u had a horse I had one good was well pleased with the unselfish people

  34. Kevin on October 20, 2020 at 9:11 pm

    Came to this site by clicking the wrong link. (you can call it an “act of dog”).. started reading—. In under a minute I was googling the authors name to check my suspicion… and sure enough I was right! The author is a pastor!! The whole thing actually *was* just as self-serving as it sounded. If you actually read your dang book you might notice that all the apostles had *real* jobs and were not just parasites living off the body of the congregation. As a outsider looking in, to me it seems painfully obvious that you are just a con-man begging for his victims to come back to be fleeced some more. But oh, you said it so prettily- as if you were the unholy offspring of a lawyer and a used-car salesman.

    • Stephen on January 2, 2021 at 12:15 pm

      The author actually brags about leaving a high paying life of being a lawyer to become a guru. True story You also get a fair amount of ex salesmen and magicians taking up the church business. Tax free income and volunteers for employees all under the guise of righteousness, it’s the ultimate scam.

  35. Bob on October 2, 2020 at 11:36 am

    It is a little amusing that the strongest defenders of the institutional church are operatives of that institution: in other words, they are defending their own livelihood. Tell me seriously, if you read the four Gospels alone (and they most directly preserve the thoughts and words of Jesus Christ), do you see anything that remotely resembles today’s institutional church?

    • Jeremy Bickel on October 2, 2020 at 1:42 pm

      There’s no reason to limit yourself to the 4 gospels. Those were to Jews under the Law, except the very ends of them (after the Resurrection). 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus have a lot of the rules that *Paul* happened to give to his people on how to organize church. Organization and structure are good when they are used in goodness. Discipline is also good, and without being subject to each other (Ephesians 5:21; Philippians 2:3-4), we don’t get the kind of growth that is inherent in Christ’s Church. He’s the head of it, and there’s no fear when we look to Him, because we have the biblical mandates necessary to call any Christian to account (tell them, tell them with another witness or two, tell them in front of the whole assembly and then shun them, but not as enemies, wanting them to stop their unrepentant sin, even by means of giving their bodies over to Satan). Even though the 21st century denominational churches might differ from New Testament churches, the structures given in the Bible for the Church are very useful for us (Western society is strikingly similar in several ways to the one Paul was a part of), but the qualities of the people that are given are mandatory.

      • lawrence law on November 18, 2020 at 4:53 am

        The relevance of the early Church – source of protection (sanctuary) , shelter, education, source of Scripture are not applicable to today’s context. Even in the areas of marriages and bereavement, there are other legitimate alternatives. I handled my Mum’s funeral myself and presided over her eulogy. No church involvement.

        Due to the lack of meaningful context that connects the believer to the church, the Relationship is superficial or hardly worth mentioning. This observation is not directed at either church or believer to find fault with either. Recognizing this reality is needful, else the institutional church cannot make it.

    • Susan Jull on October 16, 2020 at 4:10 pm

      The church in our times is DEAD IN THEIR SINS AND TRESPASSES. Like any other body that is DEAD–you can kick it, talk to it, try to reform it–but nothing happens–Ears can’t hear nor eyes see the error of their way. How many times have I heard a pastor say, “Sin is no longer an issue in the church.” Roll over and play dead–Do Nothing Church, not interested in cleansing their consciences. I’ve heard it say, “WHAT’S THE HARM–we all know Santa Claus is ‘make believe’ (a LIE). So what!” Scoffers and Mockers–can’t awaken a DEAD BODY. From the least to the greatest–turning a blind eye to SIN has caused DEATH AND DECAY OF THE BODY. Dressing a PIG up on Sunday morning to feel ‘righteous’–it’s still an unwashed, unclean BODY OF CHRIST. Maybe their clothes are Tide cleaned, but their consciences are DEFILED. Good for NOTHING salt. A decayed BODY is all you have in ‘religion’. SIN has blinded them–but none take it to heart. The wise man is called an ole fool–not for today! And he who rebukes brings no pleasure to the Youth. Woe! Woe! Woe! But the people rise daily in prayer, seeking God for ‘goodness’ and ‘mercies,’ yet they have not inclined their ears to His call for Repentance, and neither will He incline His ears to their prayers. God is longsuffering, but He is a HOLY GOD, and cannot fellowship with DARKNESS. RELIGION is covering up the fact that the people are living in SIN, and far-removed from the Light of God’s Word.

      • Barbara Garrison on October 21, 2020 at 10:25 pm

        10/21/2020

        Has the news media said using the name of God is offensive to people? I ask out of curiosity.

      • Gary on October 25, 2020 at 2:18 pm

        You may very well be right

      • lawrence law on November 18, 2020 at 5:15 am

        Carnality is spiritualized into normality. The institutional Church, in particular the wealth and health-promoting pulpits, is not only not spared but perpetuating this spiritualized carnality. In my books, when placing burdens of legalism is also courting carnality for the strength of sin is the LAW.

    • lawrence law on November 18, 2020 at 4:41 am

      Good observation on the final sentence.

  36. Frank B. on September 24, 2020 at 1:04 am

    “The church is far from perfect. Life is complex.”— Please forgive my language… But that sentiment is…TOTAL BULL SHIT!.. If your religion is not “perfect” then one should NOT follow it.. You people have done more to destroy mankind than to preserve it.. If you don’t know the “answers”— THEN GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY….. AND STOP DECEIVING PEOPLE!

    • Abraham on September 24, 2020 at 3:09 am

      Hello Mr Frank B.
      I’m Abraham, I was answering questions awhile back, but I haven’t been here in a long while.
      To your comment.
      I’ll assume the statement made “the church isn’t perfect” refers to people, thus my submission will make sense.

      Christianity is perfect!! Absolutely.
      And the Bible holds answers to questions anyone can have about God. It is God’s own word after all.
      These are really bold claims and I can surely explain them and make you see reasons with me, with time.

      So once again, Christianity is perfect and I’ll throw in a little twist and say, the church is perfect! That has to be explained. The church as the body of Christ, redeemed by his work, and identified with him, is perfect, however, when you come to the gathering, the assembly, the local church, you might have certain “contradictions”.

      1. The more obvious ones are the “tares amongst the wheat”, people who aren’t saved, but come amongst our gathering.
      They are deceivers, and when such do certain things, people’s response will be “and he goes to church a lot, everyone is lying, the church isn’t perfect, Christians are deceivers” e.t.c.
      1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
      Antichrist refers here to false doctrine and false believers. They might be people who were once belonging, or still belonging to the gathering, but they don’t believe the gospel, they aren’t Christians, yet claim Christianity.
      Obviously these folks will make Christianity altogether look false.

      2. Is more along the lines of no. 1 in the sense that it references people also.
      You see, people are the issue, and in this case you might even have believers, who act like unbelievers.
      The church in Corinth, whom Paul wrote to is a very typical example.
      1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

      These folks are saved, yet Paul couldn’t relate (speak) with them as saved (spiritual). But carnal. How were they carnal? In their behavior. So you can have people who are saved, but still act carnally.
      What’s the issue? Paul lends us an idea, in the sense that he says they are “babes in Christ”, implying infancy in Christ.
      That means they didn’t mature. So there is MATURITY aka spiritual growth required. And when believers don’t grow up, they act like unbelievers.
      Does that again mean that Christianity is not perfect? No it doesn’t. However the followers might appear imperfect, if they aren’t growing. The solution to that is already provided by God. It’s the teaching of the word (the Bible)
      2 Timothy 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
      (Doctrine means teaching, reproof means to give evidence, instruction in righteousness refers to spiritual growth, Man of God refers to believers, Christians)

      Jesus taught about the different possible reactions to the word that can be observed by men like you and I
      In the parable of the sower, (you can read the whole thing later)

      Matthew 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty

      The soils all refers to the heart of men when the word is preached to them.
      Hearts 1 & 2 didn’t allow the word have root in them, so they weren’t saved
      Heart 3. Was saved, but allowed other things to choke the word in his heart, so he couldn’t bear the fruits of the word.
      Heart 4, bore fruits, (fruit refers to the visible product of a thing) fruits of the word in his heart.

      So, Christianity is perfect, but if you have people who aren’t Christians pose as Christians, definitely they will defame Christianity.
      And Christianity has it’s fruits, that should be visible to all men, born again or not, but when such don’t grow, they’ll also give Christianity a bad name.

      Dear Mr Frank. Christ’s work is perfect, he died and rose again, and anyone that believes in him is made perfect, and as we grow up by being taught the word, that perfection will be shown in our actions and relationship with men

      Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but NOW ARE ye light in the Lord: WALK as children of light:

      Hope this helps? I’ll be sure to answer your questions as much as I can

      • Sharon on January 23, 2021 at 6:17 am

        Thank you 🙏🏼

    • Jeremy Bickel on September 24, 2020 at 7:13 am

      Master Jesus Christ is perfect. He preserves His own. If you believe His death is for our sins in accordance with the prophecies and the descriptions in the Bible, and then He was buried, then God raised Him from the dead in accordance with the Scriptures, and then He was seen by many witnesses afterward (those who belonged to Him, both individually and even more than 500 brothers at once, most of whom were still alive when Paul wrote to the Corinthian church this formulation of the gospel that he had also been taught), and if you confess with your mouth Master Jesus due to these particular beliefs, then you will be saved. This is the beginning. The local congregation is not the same set of people as The Church. Run to Master Jesus Christ, believing and doing this gospel (Romans 10:9-10 and 1 Corinthians 15:1-8), and you will then gain righteousness by believing the Resurrection, because the same Spirit of Life leads those who are known by Christ into righteousness as we live by His Law (not the written ordinances of Moses or the 10 Commandments; Romans 8:2).

  37. Humphrey on August 6, 2020 at 7:28 am

    The church is the body of Christ which mean it is the organization of Jesus Christ on earth. Do you know that there is no any organization in this world that claims Jesus Christ as its head? But the Church does. Why on earth can someone keep finding excuse upon excuse to discredit the church and its organized activities? Jesus made it clear that he will come back for his church. Therefore, if you are not part of the Church, the return of Jesus is not for you. I don’t care what you think, organizations are conducted in buildings and structures that is why there are church buildings everywhere. A song said We are the World, and there is a United Nation Building for people of the world to organize their activities. We say: We are the Church, so there are Church buildings for us to organize our activities. Make no mistake about that, there is no problem with Christians, Church buildings, King James Bible (In fact, I taught my Children that KJV bible is the only word of God with us today). if you are done with Church, The Church will still march on.

  38. Daniel on June 16, 2020 at 11:29 am

    Perhaps the word ‘church’ should be removed from English translations and your own mind because it is actually an incorrect translation for the Greek word ekklesia, which should be, as William Tyndale rightly did, translated as “assembly, congregation, gathering”. That refers to the people, a called out and separate community. The word ‘church’ actually does refer to a physical building/house/structure. And for you to say the ‘church’ is ‘the people’ is actually incorrect, proving you are in error, ignorant of history and the biblical idea of community. You can look this up. The Greek word for ‘church’ or closest to it, is kuriakos or kuriakon which is only used twice in the entire New Testament, once by Paul, once by John. We were given the word church, which is a translation of German/Latin ‘kirche’ from the Greek ‘kuriakos’ by King James Bible fame…and it was done on purpose because by that time there was an established business model of ‘church.’ They chose to protect it. Even the Reformers missed this. It has ruined the idea of community and gathering and mutual participation within a spiritual gathering. If you agree that the Bible is somehow the ‘inspired’ ‘Word’ of God profitable for faith, practice, doctrine, and the like you will have to defend your use of the word ‘church’ because it is an incorrect translation, and therefore, all that you think of as ‘church’ that you are eisegting back into the premise of the New Testament style of gathering stands upon shaky ground…the ground of tradition but not truth. The reason earnest seekers of truth and the Yeshua the New Testament presents are leaving ‘church’ is because they are starting to be drawn by God out of them to seek out ekklesia…for they are institutional, dominated by structure and hierarchy, and most believers are actually kept immature by their inability to exercise their spiritual gifts within them. Sitting in a pew or ‘Sunday School’ class or ‘small group’ class an hour or two a week after singing a few songs is not going to spiritually prepare people for the dark days ahead in their own personal lives or corporately within a nation in its cultural death throes. All the sermon series in the world, all the programs, all the 501c3 merger with the government to keep all that $$$ for yourself due to tax exemptions, isn’t going to help people stay sane when God deals with the USA as God has dealt with other countries/nations in the past. Your ‘churches’ collect wealth, but not for helping the poor and needy and sick and fatherless and widows, but so that you can buy influence to have a seat in the halls of power and spiritual ‘entertainment’ thereby proving that the Protestant Reformation was always doomed to be as ecumenical and inclusive as the Roman Catholic whore. People are leaving because God is actually saving them. Yeshua is drawing men and women to himself, to his community, to his ekklesia. “Upon this rock I will build by CONGREGATION/COMMUNITY…” not ‘church’. The rock of the revelation that struck Cephas/Peter like a thunderbolt epiphany that day, “Attou hou haMashiach, ben-Elohim chayim”, or “you are the Christ, the son of the Living God.”

    • Child of God on July 24, 2020 at 5:57 pm

      I believe it is clear that church means the people. There is no confusion when there is nearly 100 verses in the bible that commands us to gather together to encourage one another in our faith also so we are accountable to someone that knows the word and can direct us so we do not come up with our own understanding of the word and say or behave in an ungodly way. This is also so that we can invite others to our gatherings in hopes they get saved and this gives them an opportunity to see the example of being separated from the world. We can have bible studies Sunday school and we can pray and worship together too. All commands from Jeaus.
      Also back then people would gather together outside because there was so many and later built buildings and called it a church because that is where the church comes together. The Bible has not been changed it was translated so we can understand the message. Amen. God bless.

    • Mark on August 16, 2020 at 5:15 pm

      You are, “right on the money. ” Any nonprofit organization ultimately is a government regulated/controlled business. God it’s very specific about what he requires from us. Render unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar. Nothing man-made is good enough for God and God does not accept anything that is not already required. That alone makes tithe offered or accepted as anything monetary blaspheme. In my 35 years of being able to read I have never found scripture where Jesus conducted any sort of business transaction with money. consistently, every instance where money is involved she gives it to someone and tells them to go pay on their debts.
      If you love me keep my Commandments. As God-fearing Christians we were instructed to abide by the laws of man unless those laws interfered with abiding by God’s laws. Thou shalt not make unto thee any Graven image or any likeness of anything in the heavens above, the Earth beneath or the waters under the earth. Thou Shalt not bow down before them nor serve them. For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God… Love does not covet, nor is love selfish (except in vain) but it is very jealous. You can only worship 1 God. Anyone proclaiming themselves as Christian should be furious about being tricked by those they’ve looked to as examples for following the righteous path.
      Money, long before it gets produced by an engraved plate or die stamp is already under the ownership of someone. No matter how much you save up or earn it does not belong to you it’s not your money. If your survival is dependant on the use of another’s property you’re, um, whats that term modern society has become without complaint because they keep telling us it was abolished after the Civil War…
      As a Christian I refuse to be lukewarm.
      Father, You know i am testable and I thank You for the gift of a capability to share this understanding with your children because they truly seek You.

    • lawrence law on November 18, 2020 at 5:22 am

      People are leaving (the institutional Church) because God is actually saving them – I love this bold statement! Copied your comment for my records, golden nuggets of good and relevant observations.

      • Jeff on July 1, 2021 at 10:00 am

        “God is actually saving them”. HALLELUYAH! Amen.

        i.e. “Ekklesia” – called out, set apart ones – “come out of religion MY People” – don’t continue to be tired, worn out, devastated by religion, no. Instead, Come To Me, Yahshua (Jesus) Says Clearly, and I WILL give you rest, for I AM Gentle and Lowly of Heart .
        I know you do not know HOW TO LIVE. Come to ME, learn from Me Jesus says, and I WILL show you how to live (Daily, All day, Every Day, Disciplined/Trained By Me (Jesus) ) abiding in Me, One with Me, One (Echad) with My Father. No idolatry. No churchianity. Nothing pagan at all. Test everything. Babylon had a trinity that was and continues to be idolatry. Avoid all babylon – COME OUT of her, My People (My Sheep Hear My Voice, Jesus Says, AND Follow Me).

  39. Thomas Borboa on June 5, 2020 at 8:06 am

    About the reasons people are leaving the “church.” In short, it’s not because of “post-modern” thinking. It is because many are becoming aware that what is considered the church is just not in the bible. No where in the new testament do we see what’s represented in reality and people are not interested in this business called church, PERIOD!

    • Robert Olson on June 9, 2020 at 1:11 pm

      In the beginning was the Word and the Word with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him were all things made without Him nothing was made…. So why does my church deny this? Instead my church wants to contemplate on the latest research from Barna that explains and excuses our dwindling numbers! My church wants to explain the excellency and supremacy of our “theology” and bash other christian churches theology! I have been trained in the Seminary and have a Deaconical degree. I sit in stunned silence as the churches run from the word….led by the pastors (CEOs) and “elders” many of whom I have counseled for sexual immorality, alcohol and drug use and anger issues that has spilled into the congregation. I can see why the church has become repulsive to the Christian and of no use to the seeker. I would like to experiment with the rebirth of the Church in Antioch. Word, Fellowship, Community, Service.

      • Jeremy Bickel on June 9, 2020 at 1:50 pm

        “Master Jesus, make us go to You! Cause us to trust You in simplicity and honor You with all our strength as we admonish and build up the siblings. Change our minds to stop looking at the World’s wisdom. Find us yearning toward You when You return, and make us trust You, God, even if You kill us! Hold us in the palm of Your faithful hand, and make us struggle sincerely as we rest in the peacefulness You instill, Greatest God. Keep us loving You. Amen.”

      • Rev J on July 5, 2020 at 8:05 pm

        Hi All,
        Plain and simple facts. The Christian/Catholic church of today has become a place run by a deep state bunch bent on changing the original scriptures to serve Satan and not God. Does anyone out there really believe that God or Jesus would allow us to stain His virgin bride, the church. Just as God took away the Jews right to Him so I now believe He has done to s as well. This corrupt clerical culture that now exists and runs our church is not looking to be the “good shepherds” but are the serpents in the garden to bring down the church and as many of the followers as it can persuade to follow this new wishy washy faith. Father Gobbi locution, that he received from Mother Mary, is coming true as we speak. This corrupt Christian/Catholic church will fall and only a remnant Christian/Catholic church will remain but it will be filled with true believers not the C.I.,N.O.s of today. What is a C.I.N.O. you ask? A Christian/Catholic In Name Only. Our Christian/Catholic churches are filled with them today. The pope who now sits on the papal throne is a deep state faker, Too bad for us. Archbishop Sheen stated “Who’s going to save our Church? It’s not our bishops, it’s not our priests and it is not the religious. It is up to you, the people. You have the minds, the eyes and the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that the priests act like priests, your bishops act like bishops, and the religious act like religious.” One more I promise but it was stated in the late 1800’s. William Booth, the founder of the Salvation Army siad; “The chief danger of the 20th century will be religion without the Holy Spirit, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, and heaven without hell.” What a prophetic statement. Is this not what we are witnessing today?
        Rev J

        • Messenger of the Most High on July 24, 2020 at 9:59 am

          The church is a place where tolerance and acceptance of diversity should happen, the way Jesus did. Should be a place where everyone feels welcome as part of the brotherhood of man and the family of humanity.

          Unfortunately many churches nowadays are run by racists extreme right leaders promoting politics and discrimination from the pulpit. The church is not the place to preach white nationalism or any other extreme right values which are against the Great Commandment give by Jesus.

          • Jeremy Bickel on July 24, 2020 at 3:19 pm

            Jesus said that He didn’t come to bring peace, but a sword! He came to divide us into two camps – sheep and goats. The brotherhood of man is the World, and it’s up to the Church to tell them they are going to suffer in Hell and they must accept Christ!

            The Church has nothing at all to do with the politics of the Earth, except insofar as they outline the need for The Savior.

            If you confess with your mouth Master Jesus and believe in your heart that He died *for our sins*, was buried, God has raised Him from the dead, and He was seen afterward by many witnesses, then you have faith and confession that saves and leads to righteousness. Doing Romans 10:9a & 10:10b for salvation, due to believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, results in the righteousness of Romans 10:9b & 10:10a.

            THIS is what the Church is to preach to the lost and unregenerate World.



          • Jeff Elohim on July 2, 2021 at 9:42 pm

            hmmm. most high devil ? tolerance and diversity are not found in heaven. In heaven, there are no idolatrors, thus no roman catholics.(or many other groups either). Unless, of course, they stop sinning, repent and be immersed in Jesus’ Name. Likewise, no perverts are in heaven, no not one even. No thieves nor any liars either. No adulterers, and no one who loves divorce. (God Hate Divorce). So , you don’t see, God does not tolerate sin in heaven, not permit the sin of diversity (nor never even once the false gospel of diversity) in heaven.
            All in heaven are born again (must be born again). Thus no continual, unrepentant, idolator or liar or thief or pervert or anyone serving demons. (most of the world is serving demons, and they refuse to stop )



      • Emmanuel on August 29, 2020 at 3:37 am

        Please tell me about tightening,last two weeks I paid my tight but not complete I had 25,000 and before Sunday I was left with 1,000. So I used to pay tight,my friend said for me not to pay a complete tight I have stolen from the lord ,I refuse to agree with him on that .

  40. Kevin Untener on May 26, 2020 at 7:56 pm

    I remember commenting here in the past, but don’t quite remember what I said. Either way, I was wrong to comment on here or anywhere for that matter. Any grievances one may have with another is to be worked out with the one they have it with, not on a blog. So I misspoke. A good church within the Church will instill a foundational seed to sustain a lifetime. If you are leaving church for more time on Sunday that’s one thing, If you are leaving church because of issues, at least bring them up first and try to work them out. Work out your own salvation. I had no issue with the church I left, but may have had issues with its mother church and didn’t air it out in the most prudent fashion. Unfortunately those churches are pretty closely tied and I may have caused issues commenting on this Blog. My apologies.

  41. Bob Emery on May 22, 2020 at 4:15 pm

    Do you really think the church would have a place for me: an elderly, single, introverted, rather socially inept man? If so, you’re believing your own propaganda. The church is a place intended to reassure the conventional young to middle-aged nuclear family that it is doing the right thing. The church has room for no one else.

    • Jason Mauk on May 26, 2020 at 10:14 am

      Actually, Bob, the above article shows the opposite. The church is a people–a broken, sinful, at times God-opposing and human offending people. And in God’s perfection and holiness and wisdom, He has chosen to use people to influence other people in order to more clearly see Him–the One who is perfect. This is not merely for young to middle aged; it is for the oldest in society also, in order that every human being can begin to see themselves in light of the One who is not broken and sinful being revealed at times in those who are, as they find in Him their greatest treasure. The oldest in our communities can be the most influential as they desire to not waste their influence in their later years by revealing the One who is patient with the young to middle-aged.

      • lawrence law on November 18, 2020 at 5:40 am

        The church is a social minefield. People gather to socially compare and socially discriminate. I tried it, do not like it, not buying that snake oil again. The church I am enjoying now is the small gathering of believers (less than 12) without any church affiliation. We are bonded by the common like-mindedness of sincere brotherly love. Offering each other sincere and respectful social support apart from the study of scripture.

        The blame is not on the organized Church only, for they are just meeting pent up demand.

        • Jeremy Bickel on November 18, 2020 at 10:58 am

          Does your likeminded separation from Scripture include anything that worships our Master Jesus Christ? If so, then it is a church, just like the denominations, because the Bible is the existential control that defines what is, and it says that God is there with the two or three who are gathered together in the name of the Master Jesus Christ. If not, then you are just a club. Don’t be a look-alike (pseudo, anti-, different) church without Christ, but be a small church (and maybe smaller than you’ve been if it’s necessary) with Christ. Do you practice singing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, confessing your faults to each other, teaching, rebuking, exhorting each other, giving over the body of the sibling in Christ who will not stop sinning some particular sin over to Satan for the buffeting of the body and the saving of the soul, taking each thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ and praying without ceasing? These are the things in the post-Resurrection Bible for the Church. If you all do these things, then you’ll all be luxuriating in righteousness and your siblingly love in Christ will grow (and humanistic pseudo-love and your flesh will have a harder time controlling you all together).

    • Susan Browning on May 28, 2020 at 3:11 pm

      My church is filled with them and women too because I happen to be one of them. Keep going!!!

    • Mark on August 9, 2020 at 7:57 am

      Bob, please join us for worship each Wednesday night at 7:30 (eastern time). You will be encouraged and strengthened in the LORD.

  42. Laurence D'Alberti on May 8, 2020 at 3:12 am

    I thought I surrendered to Christ and accepted Salvation 20 years ago. It was a straight up deception. Maybe I had unrealistic expectations – you know him being God and all that – he can do anything right? Wrong! From the first day I accepted Christ I lost my personal life and ended up alone for 20 years straight and depressed about it. I couldn’t even find one single woman at the Church that I could even just talk to never mine anything else. 20 years of my life gone – poof – just like that. That is not what I signed up for and I’m angry and bitter my life ended up this way when I thought God would give me a life – he gave me isolation and solitary confinement for 20 years. Have you ever heard of a worse abomination of women treating a man that bad? If this is Salvation – I want out ASAP – how do I reverse the process? Do I have to pray to Satan to get God off my back tormenting me?

    • Michael Schmidt on May 9, 2020 at 3:51 pm

      The church is going off a cliff. God never intended for a church to be unbalanced, and these worldly seeker driven churches are unbalanced. They compromise biblical standards. Too much emphasis is put on doing whatever it takes to grow the church and win the lost. These churches are worldly. We must not act like the world to reach the world, and that is what these churches are doing. Too many are led by unqualified or under qualified pastors and staff. Take a look at Joel Osteen America’s favorite evangelical preacher. He has no ministry credentials. his messages are unbiblical. Today’s church would rather have an unqualified hipster pastor than an older, wiser more experienced pastor. the church is screwed up. A lot of the music is awful. messages are little sermonette pepe talks. The church has burned to many people, being more about power and love. I totally get it why people do not go to church anymore. – Michael Schmidt D.Min. Ed.D. ABD

      • Michael Schmidt on May 9, 2020 at 3:54 pm

        should say the church is more about power than love. should say pep talk not pepe talk

    • pradeep ivon on May 9, 2020 at 8:45 pm

      dear Laurence, i feel for you and would have surely felt same way at your younger age (i am married with family of 2 daughters) but wondering what exactly happened when you accepted Christ and what kind of church or fellowship you were attending where everyone boycotted you. Yes carrying the cross of Jesus isolates you from the world and your outlook to the world (materialism, success & ambition) must change because all my life i have been a regular church guy and was active since the youth days (59 now) but it is only in recent about 4-5 years i have started taking the Word of God seriously after i witnessed incidents in my life where i was miraculously saved in a certain deadly car accident and then during a leg fracture while on leaves at home started watching God Tv -these incidents plus sudden thunderbolt of fatal sickness of wife (brain tumor-surgery etc) in which the fervent prayers of all friends, family & church have indeed given her healing and carried her till date in the 2nd year whereas the neurosurgeon had given no hopes being grade 4 cancer, this also changed my outlook to the conventional church and gave better insight of the Bible. I am sure there are people out here in the world who always connect to each other no matter what your belief/ ideology.
      and now this global suffering and shut down of churches has indeed revealed that the Word of God is the only truth and Jesus is the only name above all names and we all must take this opportunity to go deeper into our own study of Bible and start reaching out to others as the final great mission of Jesus expects from us otherwise whatever we may do it is vain if we have not listened and obeyed our savior Lord- you are on the right track dear brother let us know what exactly you mean by ´accepted christ´!

    • Jeremy Bickel on May 12, 2020 at 1:09 pm

      He called and you called back. You belong to Him. Give in. Do you understand how good He is?! He is your life, and if you are obstinate about it, He will still have His way with you, but it will hurt bad. Tell Him your frustrations, and ask Him what He wants you to do instead of your unfulfilled desires. He has something that will fulfill you more, but if you are petulantly disregarding Him, then He has to make you feel very bad and rile you up just to get your attention! See? He is sovereign over you and the entire Universe! Don’t let His slow gentleness make you think that He doesn’t really control you or His toughness make you think He doesn’t love you. Like a father who knows how to handle his children, Master Jesus Christ handles us firmly out of love to *change* us into something that He has planned for us since before the world began!! Let Him.

    • Chaz on May 26, 2020 at 9:49 am

      Not everyone is meant to get married and to even stay married. Paul gives his explanation of this in 1stCorinthians Chapter 7.

      Sometimes working on strengthening our faith by studying the bible can help us all to deepen our faith overall. We know that God does have a plan for all of us; sometimes it involves a wife or husband or not, and children or not. We think these human desires are up to us and there lies the problem.

      Being Christians requires us to become humble, patient, forgiving, loving, peaceful, kind, gentle, disciplined and faithful and these are things we all have to deal with and work on and often take a lifetime of work.

      We fool ourselves if we think that praying to Satan, even for an instant, is the way to get what you want in this life on earth. And that is just what he would like-for us to be fooled. Run, don’t walk, to the nearest dedicated and faithful clergy person you can for guidance and strength.

      • Hayes on May 31, 2020 at 12:42 pm

        Chaz,

        ”Being Christians requires us to become humble, patient, forgiving, loving, peaceful, kind, gentle, disciplined and faithful and these are things we all have to deal with and work on and often take a lifetime of work.”

        This quote, taken from your post, is an extremely common notion within Christendom, and a huge reason why believers become more than frustrated and ultimately throw in the towel. Even Christians can no more fulfill this list of “dos” and “don’ts” than fly.

        Literally, the only difference between a Christ follower and someone who has never met Him is that one has been made alive spiritually through the Holy Spirit, and the other has not.

        Forgiveness, love, peacefulness, humility, and grace are attributes placed within us as we mature, not “a lifetime of work“, as you put it. A true believer clings to God through Jesus Christ no matter how difficult life becomes because of the power placed within them to do so. The true believer is weak, frail, messy, sinful, and needy. In a nutshell, the Christian life is about resting and rejoicing in the work already done in our behalf, and spreading that good news as a result. It is not a work list.

        “I can’t do all this… I can’t be what God wants me to be…“ There you have it. Of course we can’t, and the sad reality that this is what we get from many pulpits does more harm than good.

    • Robert Olson on June 9, 2020 at 1:19 pm

      Are you angry at God? Tell Him! Tell Him what you believed you would achieve from being a Christ – follower! Hold nothing back! And when you have completely emptied yourself to Him be silenced and open to the answer He is going to provide. Twenty or one hundred years may seem a long time but nothing compares to eternity! God loves you dearly (no matter what you think or the world tells you). He has made you fearfully and wonderfully, He knew you before you were knitted in the womb. And the devil? He doesn’t care a whit about you! He hates Jesus and wants to destroy something Jesus loves. YOU! Be strong and courageous dear friend!

    • Jenny on June 16, 2020 at 8:57 am

      Hey Lawrence:) It doesn’t sound like you truly were born again, thus, having received the Holy Spirit. The biggest misconception today is that we can save ourself, having not heard a calling in our spirit. The Holy Spirit must be dealing with us (drawing us to Christ) when we call to be saved because only the Holy Spirit knows when our heart is sincerely ready to take up our cross and daily and follow the Lord. Jesus Himself said “I am the way, the truth and the Life, no one goes to the father but through Me” and then He says this “No one comes to me except my Father draw him”.

      One way to know if your heart was sincere when you “thought you were saved 20 years ago” is to ask yourself what the motive was behind asking to be saved? Did you feel genuine repentance, knowing that you had been living wickedly and you KNEW the you were in direct opposition to God and needed to realign yourself with Him? Or was it all about making sure you went to Heaven? Did you seek His face? Did you have a hunger for Jesus and a thirst for the Word? Did you begin to see the things that are perfectly fine and normal before for their true sinful nature. True repentance leading to salvation brings true change of nature. Not a forced change of lifestyle but rather a natural change of ones old nature, usually starting with this new weird love, even for people that you don’t even know. You quit doing the things that you used to love but begin to be repulsed by. It’s an earmark of the indwlling of the Holy Spirit. You said that you wanted God to stop torturing you, pray to Him and ask Him to lead you to true repentance by helping you hate what is wicked and love what is good. It sounds like you need to get on your knees and cry out to God to deliver you from Satan, because it’s Satan that is trying to get you to curse God, just like he was trying to do with Job. Notice that it was when Job fully surrendered to God that He received back everything he had lost, and doubly so. I’ll pray for you my friend. God is faithful. We are the the unfaithful ones who separate ourselves from Him.

    • Jenny on June 16, 2020 at 9:16 am

      Also, I say this with love and pray you take this the way my heart intends 🙏🏻 I went back and mulled over your comment again and it struck me that it seems as though you were trying to fill the void in your heart that was meant for the love of Lord with the love of fleshly things. We have all done it. We always think that a new man or a new woman is the answer! That’s it, we say! If I just find the right one I will be happy and content. Sometimes God’s plan for us doesn’t look anything like we think it should look. Could it be that He’s kept you alone because you said you wanted Him but then sought-after everything besides Him? Was He in your heart? Or only in your pocket? I don’t know. But these are honest questions to ask yourself as you seek counsel from the Lord. You may even go so far as to ask Him to reveal if you were doing any of these things and if that’s why. If He shows you that there are truths, confess, repent and ask Him to help you do it right this time. The fact that you are on this blog post makes me feel that He is working on your heart and gives me hope that you are very close indeed to the saving hand of the Lord🙏🏻 God bless, I’m praying for you brother 🙏🏻

    • Natividad Mendoza on July 5, 2020 at 6:30 pm

      Simple, You have the wrong choices and don’t blame God, your life is your own responsibility! Probably you need God the most right now, Bless you, son

    • Tara on August 21, 2020 at 11:41 pm

      Hi Laurence,

      I wanted to encourage you that Proverbs 3: 5-6 states, “Trust in the Lord with all your (thine) heart and lean not to your own understanding, but in all your ways acknowledge Him (God 1st) and He shall direct your path. I understand that this road that we walk in with the Lord is enduring and a challenging one. Know this, God does not tempt man. Nor does he TORMENT. God is a Holy, sovereign, and jealous God. As well as, gracious, merciful, loving, and patient with His children (us). Plus so much more. So, know if anyone is tormenting you it is Satan himself putting lies in your mind that God can do anything that is not of righteousness unto who He is for the Christian life. When you gave your life over to Him 20 years ago, you have to realize that we will be TARGETED and TESTED on every side until we see Him again in Glory. However, in spite of what you endured. Have you considered the kind of season, tests, and trials you were needed to grasp before coming to the above conclusion? God never left you during your circumstance and you can go to Him boldly, seeking His face and still small voice to show you the way towards receiving the woman He has for you. Know that He is in control and wants to show you great and mighty things. Your spirit is troubled and I will be praying for you. I would also like for you to read and study the Word of God with other biblical resources: If you have a Holy Bible of course (my hope for you to get a LifeWay or any study bible staying closer to the KJV/NIV/CSB, etc), Bible Commentary, and meditate on God’s words with steadfast prayer. Here are some scriptures & principles for waiting on your Godly spouse and marriage. Genesis 24, Proverbs 31, Matthew 6:33, Jeremiah 29:11, Ephesians 5:22-33, Proverbs 13:20, 1 Corinthians 10: 13, 2 Peter 3:18, 1 Corinthians 6:19, Acts 28:31.

      I would like you to speak God’s word back to Him and go to Him in your darkest & loneliness hour. Pour out your heart to Him in sincerity and come unto the Lord with anything you need to confess to Him about first. God’s grace is always sufficient for you.

      I hope all is well! Here is a link for you to read too. 🙂 Link:https://biblereasons.com/marriage/

      Blessings,

      Tara.

  43. Richard Archer on April 26, 2020 at 10:28 pm

    Maybe you should start out by saying the Church is Perfect but Christians make mistakes. Likewise maybe you should say worship instead of church. We come together to praise (worship) God and on the First Day of the Week, The Lord’s Day to remember the Life, Death and Resurrection of the Son of God, The Word, The Light and the Savior. God took notice of us and added us to The Church.

    • Kathy Julian on May 3, 2020 at 11:19 am

      I’m being your by my husband and mother that I’d I hi to sb5013c church I’ve been deceived because they don’t teach the truth. I was raised in the church and have ministers in my family. If I go to church come back feeling wonderful and happy I walked through the doors and I’m told how could you go there. My husband thinks that God wants us to expose the evils of our government and 5G and Illuminati I tell him I’m not concerned because I have no control over them what I have control of is reading the Bible and praying to God for strength to overcome what’s ahead of me and to forgive me for the sins I know and send that I don’t. Am I wrong? I don’t think so I’m told that if I don’t believe like they do then I’m a lost soul. This is coming from people that don’t talk to others that at one time money and things of this earth were so important. They don’t look happy and they don’t talk about happiness. I tell everyone I know about God and all the miracles and things that he has done and provided for me and others who believe in him. I might not know my scriptures but I know that our God is a forgiving and wonderful God my husband said he got a vision from God of what he needs to do when he was young. He says he doesn’t need to read the Bible anymore because he’s already read it and doesn’t need it He needs to know about the evils of the world now , he’s so angry and it’s full of hatred towards our government and the United States. He says God wants to expose them.. Is that true. He watches a few people on YouTube who are against the government but they use scriptures to show that what they say and believe is scripture. I will go and look up scriptures that show what God promises us and guides us and he says I’m wrong that’s not what it means. He has gotten so angry with me and he’s evil things to me and wants to strike me and I feel like I’m being attacked because I don’t think the way to God is focusing the evils if the word and what I need to make me stronger is what I feel I have to do to be closer with God. Because when I look at the evils of the world and to being consumed by that that’s time taken away from me given God the glory. I have no place to go right now, I’ve supportted him for most of our 25 years together.. please pray for me to continue in the way I’m going and bring peace to my home. If you would answer my questions and send it to me so I can show him maybe I can show him why I feel the way I do in order for us to get closer with the Lord. The more we are filled with his grace and glory the last room is in us for hatred condemnations of others, and be at peace knowing our God is a forgiving God and I give him all the glory and that’s who I repent to.

      • maggie rose on May 4, 2020 at 8:29 am

        Hi. Please leave your abusive husband, speak to somebody you trust, a friend, a colleague, phone a women’s helpline, anything, your husband is going to ruin the rest of your life and control you, you cannot see it but I have gone through it. Pray to God for help too but you must get yourself out of your situation or tell your husband to get help for his problems because you cannot go on like this. I know it is hard to make the first step, you don’t know how to start changing things but you have to be strong and make that first step, do something to change things or it will get worse and you will get more and more sad and maybe even depression will set in which is not a good road to go down, believe me! If church makes you happy then go, don’t let your husband stop you – talk to someone in your family, you say there are ministers in your family, can you talk to them? There must be someone, just one person, you can confide in and ask for help and advice as your home situation is not a good one and you deserve to be happy – I am 57 and been on my own after an abuse relationship, not hitting but he controlled me and I was desperately unhappy – on my own for 15 years now and never regretted getting out of that. If you love your husband and want to be with him then talk to him sincerely and tell him you are unhappy and things need to change, if you do not love him and want out you need to do something fast! I will pray for you, please don’t stay as you are or things will get worse, do something to improve your life. God bless you.

        • steve on May 25, 2020 at 2:30 pm

          excuse me. But telling someone to leave their spouse for any reason other than what Jesus states is wrong. You should be praying with them, encouraging them to work their marriage in a Godly way.

          • Renee Schaecher on July 13, 2020 at 1:49 pm

            abuse is not part of the agreement. If she is in danger emotionally and /or physically she can leave. he has choosen to love another. The advise given to her is good. Work it out if you can but if his anger and violence is ruining your life then respect his choice and move on with what God wants you to do. God does not require one to stay when there is danger to life as she discribes….



          • Screw You on July 30, 2020 at 4:28 pm

            ^^^And this is exactly the kind of sanctimonious crap shoveled out by Steve that is driving people away from the modern church in droves…



          • Jeremy Bickel on July 30, 2020 at 6:20 pm

            —————————————-
            Screw You on July 30, 2020 at 4:28 pm

            ^^^And this is exactly the kind of sanctimonious crap shoveled out by Steve that is driving people away from the modern church in droves…
            —————————————-

            The morality of Christianity is *different* than the ethics of psychological humanism. I haven’t closely followed the case here and don’t need to – that’s the point I’m making right now – the Bible’s morality (whatever it does say that pertains to this case or any case) is exactly what *Christians* should do.

            The World is incapable of righteousness, because righteousness only comes by belief in the Resurrection of Christ on the third day by someone who has verbally confessed Master Jesus due to believing His death is effective to save.

            OF COURSE, it *seems* to the World (and the ignorant and babyish Christian) to be “sanctimonious” or many other foolish or harsh things, but that’s because the World minds the things of the flesh, and the untrained Christian hasn’t yet developed the mind of Christ to the point of considering many of the things of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, Who’s law we Christians are under.

            If it helps anyone here, remember that Paul said that he was convinced that nothing is unlawful for us, but not everything is expedient to bring about goodness.

            There *IS* a way that goes beyond psychological humanism which can turn a loathsome relationship into a happy, healthy, joyous one. ..but I wouldn’t want the World to have it, because it might seem like Christ is not needed when the basic things of living go very well, due to the practice of Christ’s morality. And I wouldn’t want the the babyish Christian to be deprived of learning beyond the surface by always having it too easy and wasting this lifetime of preparation before eternity.

            If you are a Christian, do the best righteousness you can and take all your next steps, regardless of how the surface looks. If you *know* that it’s against your own conscience – DON’T DO IT! If you are of the World, leave from here. These things are not for you. You will hurt yourself by gaining any knowledge of Christ’s goodness, and His wisdom will be a trap to you. You must only confess with your mouth Master Jesus due to believing His death is effective to save and believe that He was buried, then He was raised up from death on the third day in accordance with the prophesies of the Scriptures, and then He was seen by a great cloud of witnesses, indeed. Run to Master Jesus.

            Christian, rely on Master Jesus, and He will promote you. Even if your spouse is not a Christian, don’t leave – not because you are not allowed, but because your righteousness might turn your spouse toward Christ when your prayerful well-doing fills up and is no longer able to be denied or overlooked.. …and praise Master Jesus for it.



          • Jeff on July 1, 2021 at 10:03 am

            All in all – overall, what Jesus Says is Unchanged > “Do not , (do not) run from suffering, instead Embrace it”. Only Jesus is able to show anyone how to live. The church(es) failed since the first few centuries when they stopped following Jesus.



        • Robert on December 8, 2020 at 7:24 am

          Hi Maggie. Your selfishness, pride and self-righteousness is not what Jesus Christ teaches us. The Truth is that you deserve Hell Maggie just as much as the worst of husband abusers, including your own husband who you justify yourself to abuse in return for his abuse. You should address your hardened-heart honestly to be able to start to forgive yourself and others, including God and including your own husband, of both whom you lost faith in and are still forsaking all these years later. His disciples; brothers, sisters, husbands and wives should be supporting each other in our assurance and faith to God, allowing our hard trials and difficult circumstances to build us up, and to create for us endurance and hope to be sought after, and definitely should not be used as an attempt to justify our sin of divorce and promote abuse to response to abuse. Your suggestion to this woman to leave her spouse for any reason is atrociously evil and not of the Holy Spirit Maggie, and you are called to repent immediately. Best, Robert

      • Jeremy Bickel on May 12, 2020 at 1:29 pm

        Master Jesus, You know the problems we face when our loved ones are full of hatred and obstinate disregard of Your will. Please give us peace of mind to continue to rely on You no matter what others do. Make us loving in the face of hatred and generously giving, doing what we know You want us to do, even in the face of fearful abandonment that disregards You in search of fear-laced lusts. You know how to break the strongholds. Break them in this case, and glorify Yourself by transforming the lives of all those whom You know belong to You, Master Jesus. Thank You. Amen.

        Salvation doctrine: Doing Romans 10:9a & 10:10b, due to believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, results in Romans 10:9b & 10:10a.

        Start there. Get to know God’s loveliness and helps and gentleness and truth and kindness and sincerity, and endure dear sister, not in fear, but in faith, strongly.

        Let it all be as God wills it in Jesus’ name to His glory.

      • Phil Imm on October 9, 2020 at 8:08 pm

        Looks like you married a man who is alienated to God. – Stopped reading God’s word. Accuses everyone else including his own wife – his supporter for 25 years! Hates US authority enstated by God. Listens only to those on YouTube who speak into his judgmental and criticizing heart. He has love for diverse arguments – have nothing to do with them. There is no love nor forgiveness for people. No patience nor teaching in love. He is condemning everyone else except “Search ME O God, Know my heart O Lord, Try ME O Lord and see if there be any wickedness in ME.
        (in your letter you are actually doing the searching and asking us if you and your love feelings and correcting him to turn to LOVE and to GOD… are wrong! You are inviting us to be your conscience to help you as your conscience is being seared by an external bully!)

        SEE how many MEN divorced gentile women for the sake of keeping their conscience clear before GOD. Their obedience to a command to be separate from the Gentiles.

        EZRA 10
        17 and by the first day of the first month they had come to the end of all the men who had married foreign women.

        18 Now there were found some of the sons of the priests who had married foreign women: Maaseiah, Eliezer, Jarib, and Gedaliah, some of the sons of Jeshua the son of Jozadak and his brothers. 19 They pledged themselves to put away their wives, and their guilt offering was a ram of the flock for their guilt. 20 Of the sons of Immer: Hanani and Zebadiah. 21 Of the sons of Harim: Maaseiah, Elijah, Shemaiah, Jehiel, and Uzziah. 22 Of the sons of Pashhur: Elioenai, Maaseiah, Ishmael, Nethanel, Jozabad, and Elasah.

        23 Of the Levites: Jozabad, Shimei, Kelaiah (that is, Kelita), Pethahiah, Judah, and Eliezer. 24 Of the singers: Eliashib. Of the gatekeepers: Shallum, Telem, and Uri.

        25 And of Israel: of the sons of Parosh: Ramiah, Izziah, Malchijah, Mijamin, Eleazar, Hashabiah, and Benaiah. 26 Of the sons of Elam: Mattaniah, Zechariah, Jehiel, Abdi, Jeremoth, and Elijah. 27 Of the sons of Zattu: Elioenai, Eliashib, Mattaniah, Jeremoth, Zabad, and Aziza. 28 Of the sons of Bebai were Jehohanan, Hananiah, Zabbai, and Athlai. 29 Of the sons of Bani were Meshullam, Malluch, Adaiah, Jashub, Sheal, and Jeremoth. 30 Of the sons of Pahath-moab: Adna, Chelal, Benaiah, Maaseiah, Mattaniah, Bezalel, Binnui, and Manasseh. 31 Of the sons of Harim: Eliezer, Isshijah, Malchijah, Shemaiah, Shimeon, 32 Benjamin, Malluch, and Shemariah. 33 Of the sons of Hashum: Mattenai, Mattattah, Zabad, Eliphelet, Jeremai, Manasseh, and Shimei. 34 Of the sons of Bani: Maadai, Amram, Uel, 35 Benaiah, Bedeiah, Cheluhi, 36 Vaniah, Meremoth, Eliashib, 37 Mattaniah, Mattenai, Jaasu. 38 Of the sons of Binnui: Shimei, 39 Shelemiah, Nathan, Adaiah, 40 Machnadebai, Shashai, Sharai, 41 Azarel, Shelemiah, Shemariah, 42 Shallum, Amariah, and Joseph. 43 Of the sons of Nebo: Jeiel, Mattithiah, Zabad, Zebina, Jaddai, Joel, and Benaiah. 44 All these had married foreign women, and some of the women had even borne children.

  44. Atu Lagi on April 23, 2020 at 5:51 pm

    I’m enjoying the reading this morning. Like many of you, we have been disappointed with the church. The building, the organisation, with all the structures etc. I grew up with the concept that church was to do with the venue, where you go for worship, and the church as the building or house of God, and everything that associates with it is the church.
    Today I have been set free delivered by the idol called the church to how it was preached and reinforced by many who have either misled people or have taught on the subject. I don’t have to be in a church building to be the church. I am the church, the body of Christ, the living temple of God. That does not mean that we become and island but the bible encourages us not to forsake the habit of meeting together( Fellowship)
    It’s sad to see that the church is riddled with all kinds of secular ideologies, worldly-systems in trying to sell or promote the church. Jesus said if you love one another then the world will know that you are my disciples. Acts 2 how the believers lived their lives was so amazing that God begins to add numbers to the fellowship. People were drawn into the fellowship not because of good technology and don’t get me wrong its good to use this means of tech as a way of communication. But, the way they lived their lives that became very attractive. My prayer as a Christian and as a pastor that we will go back to scripture. Many of this also had to do with the use of language that brings a lot of confusion and misunderstanding? today when people asked me if I went to church, I respond by saying no I didn’t I am the church, but I went to fellowship with other Christians.
    I would love to expound a bit more but I will stop there for now and might continue later on. pray the lords blessing as we serve our Lord and King Jesus Christ.

    • Jeremy Bickel on May 3, 2020 at 8:11 am

      “Master Jesus, let us always remember that we do have all spiritual blessings in the Heavenlies. Bolster our faith in You on this Earth, and give us what we physically need. Make us a beacon of light, and make us salt on the Earth to Your glory, great God. Amen.”

    • Monica Rodriguez-Corona on May 11, 2020 at 7:31 pm

      I am so appreciative of your beautiful and honest comment, as well as Carey’s wonderful article. How relieving, refreshing, and encouraging it is to read and know, first, that other brothers and sisters in Christ have come to learn, realize, and to experience the church the way our Faithful Lord Jesus describes it and teaches us about in Scripture. And secondly, that I am not and have never been alone. I so much resonate with your comment. Thank you again for sharing from your faithful servant’s heart and love of our Good Father God. Praised and Honored be to Him for spiritual discernment among the brethren! May His grace and mercy be with you all at all times in Jesus name.

  45. APKun on April 22, 2020 at 4:59 am

    That God would use ordinary, broken human beings as vessels of his grace, and delight in it, is awe-inspiring. He’s proud of how his grace is beating through your imperfect-but-redeemed life and through the church (have you ever read Ephesians 3: 10-11?).

  46. APKun on April 22, 2020 at 4:20 am

    That God would use ordinary, broken human beings as vessels of his grace, and delight in it, is awe-inspiring. He’s proud of how his grace is beating through your imperfect-but-redeemed life and through the church (have you ever read Ephesians 3:10-11 ?).

  47. Joseph Hammond on April 14, 2020 at 8:14 pm

    Thank you for sharing this info, I truly liked your storytelling fashion.

    • Moji ok on April 17, 2020 at 12:13 am

      I love this response. Thanks for this. So true and relevant even now.

    • Lisa Champion on April 20, 2020 at 12:12 pm

      When writing something like this, consider the audience and not just want you are compelled to communicate. This whole thing says leaving is a “mistake” and that people “should” be fascinated by the imperfection of the church. While it’s a dope revelation for you, someone hurting from the church will need more than religious obligation and what you think they should feel in order to re-engage. I still attend church despite years of hurt, because I realize it’s helped me more than it’s hurt me. I realize that allowing myself to be exposed to healthy Christians (after learning to establish the right boundaries) will challenge me not to end up following a Jesus that agrees with me and makes me feel perfectly comfortable. I have had to deliberately separate what the church is with who Jesus really is. I have taken breaks to sit with God and worship in for a month before returning. I listen to sermon messages with solid teaching to make sure I remember who the person is beyond the building. I read my bible. I still attend small groups and women’s groups. I mean, I relate to those who have walked away so reading this, I see how it misses the mark. Rather, show people how to re-engage in a healthier way, and don’t call what they’re doing a mistake. Of course you think that. They know you do. Speak to them where they are, not where you are.

  48. pradeep ivon on April 14, 2020 at 5:43 am

    since the spread of the Corona pandemic across the world all worship places have been shut down including the local church we used to go and entire lent period has been spent in isolation at home I understand that with locked down churches we are prevented by the Lord from exercising an external ritualistic form of worship that was giving us a false sense of being faithful in fact i have realized now is the time to introspect our faith in the Lord and check whether our lives are justified and righteous and if we are indeed christian believers (different from being a church attendee); during this period as the services are being telecast on social media by all church pastors i understand it is now duty of a mature christian to diligently study the word, understand it and attempt to reach out to non believers in a sermon or message sent on social media – social distancing between people should tell us to keep intimate proximity to our saviour Lord Jesus in whatever time we have on earth:not being pessimist but realization has to dawn on believers to carry out our duty of the great mission of Jesus Christ- to witness and tell about Him to each and everyone as no greater sign on end times have been seen in our generation than this terrible pandemic threatening to devour the humanity-which is also part of several prophecies in the Holy Bible. God bless you dear sisters & brothers in Christ!

    • Hector Hernandez on April 16, 2020 at 7:12 pm

      Amen to you. My faith has gotten firmer in my belief that “God Loves You” God shows His love through His Son Jesus. Who is our doorway…

  49. Heather Z. on April 13, 2020 at 6:47 pm

    The problem with “Church” is that most of them belong to the Harlot of Babylon. They don’t teach sound doctrine, and they are as worldly as a country club. Yes, I’m tired of Church, because I can’t find one that demands holiness from it’s members; there’s no accountability — NONE! So the time of the church as we know it is coming to an end, it’s time once more for a wilderness experience, to be alone with God in prayer and in his word. And I for one, am loving it! Who needs unity when the unity they offer is error? Not me! I am a Church of one — two if you count Jesus as High Priest, and I do!

    • JOHN MOORE on May 3, 2020 at 6:22 am

      One with another is all over the New Testament. You and Jesus, your High Priest, are to share life one with another. Christ is not the “another.” People are. You alone are not the body of Christ. We are.

      Who are YOU holding accountable? Looking for accountability? Disciple someone in Christ and hold him accountable as he will then do with you. Certainly you do not intend to hold Christ accountable, do you? There is no such thing as a church of one.

      I hope you have some appreciation for me holding you accountable to this truth.

    • Lil on December 4, 2020 at 9:13 pm

      Hi Heather Z. Praise God you have obeyed Rev elation 18: where God’s people are warned to “Come out of her My people…” That is Babylon.
      God spoke to my Papa when he was praying and asking God what church did He want him to put his name on, there was a bright light shown down from heaven over him and a voice said, “Do not put you name on no man made church book for they are ALL Babylon, as long as your name is written in the Lambs book of Life that is all it takes for you to work for me.” For the preacher had told him he had to go join “A” church to be able to work for God. Before God took Papa home to be with Him, he was in a hospital with tubes in him, he raise up and looked down the hall, and said to my sister, “Do you see those three men coming up the hall in white? They are coming to take me where Ruby (Mama) is. Heaven. Papa pulled all the tubes out, and laid back on his pillow and was gone. He was 91 and never put his name of a man made church book. Does anyone ever think what the “books” are, wherein is documented what members “works are”? Those I would consider to be all the different denominations church books that keep records of what their members pay and do, that was not found in the book of Life. I am 85, never had my name on no man made church book. God has used me as He did my parents. Since the Bible is our teacher, God can speak to us just as He did anyone in the Bible. Only believe. No one is born a sinner! No one has got to get born again! No one has got to join a church and pay the human god a dime out of a $! No one will go to hell for robbing God of tithes and offering! Ask God Almighty to open your eyes of understanding of His Word. God Bless every soul! Every one is a child of God, but every one does not obey our Heavenly Father. God did not send Jesus to condemn the world, but that the world through Him MIGHT BE SAVED. Already born again to be able to call upon God for yourself! Believe, Repent, ask forgiveness and be Saved from your sins.
      Praying for everyone!

    • Jonathan on April 16, 2021 at 7:23 pm

      I agree . I believe church is supposed to be full of love and joy and kindness and not liars cheats scam artist and these are the people running it I mean don’t get me wrong I believe church itself is a GOOD thing and church can be in your living room with just you and God but God is love god is kindness so how can a priest lead his flock if he himself is sinning ? but these reasons this guy has isn’t correct why people don’t attend church . I suggest asking people why and not assuming why they no longer attend I guarantee you will hear well I was judged by what I wore to church or I was told if I don’t give monies to the offering then I’m cheating God . Yeah strange God needs my money I would rather give him my heart soul and body. I bet you also hear they told me if I didn’t know or say what they wanted I didn’t love god who are they to tell you how you feel about god it’s like that country song (Me and Jesus have our own thing going ) god wants use to question everything not judge one another GOD is good God loves us and to be closer to GOD we have to love one another. I also believe we all have a good and evil voice and depending on your choices in life with both as a guide it’s ultimately up to you on your choices that is free will God test us everyday and just like every parent wants the best for there child but eventually you need to let them live and learn on there own with guidance from us as parents to guide towards good choices GOD treats all his children equally god teaches us in situations and guides as well as the devil guides and depending on your choices you will either do good or evil . I didn’t see this until I gave my heart body and soul to god he opened my eyes and showed me the path to heaven with him he showed me in order to be righteous is to just be GOOD that’s it ask for his mercy and forgiveness never break a promise to god love god with the good and the bad love him regardless because he doesn’t want to see his children suffer or sad or in pain no parent would . If he churches where to except all and how they look or how much money they have and except questioning everything like god wants we will lose the churches and the faith in god but money is the root of all evil so many churches want to be rich. I would rather be rich in god and my family love I will follow god always and I pray god put it in these leaders hearts to teach about god not what they think god would want . When is the last time any of you have went to church and actually learned about GOD or his lessons I mean when have any of you ever just tried talking to God . What preachers don’t really teach is everyone can literally talk with God seems people only think priest or preacher can only talk to God for them and that’s definitely not true I have spoken with GOD he showed me a new path and call out the cheats and liars and scam artist he gave us a voice and a mind to think with why not ask questions or question the current bibles cause the Bible has been historically proven of change to benefit the church or the priest them selves and the King James Bible was actually a Bible writ ting by a king out of spite for the Catholic Church I mean just ask GOD people he will answer but don’t expect him to just come out and talk like your buddy sitting next to you . You have to actuall Listen for God and i promise GOD will answer God is with in us all we just need to know how to reach him and make a change and worship god not material things we think represents god but find God within ourselves.

  50. Joan Ginsbutg on April 5, 2020 at 8:09 pm

    I would love to have a printed copy of this article for my daughter. Is it possible to send this to me or show how I can print a “condensed” version” of the article? “Christians who are Done with Church”

    • Gai on April 18, 2020 at 11:58 pm

      If you open a Word Document you can save a copy of the article there and then condense it yourself, deleting parts if you feel the need to do so, and then save changes and print your shorter version of the article.

      To save document to Word , first press Control A on the web page to highlight the article, then Control C to copy then go to your new Word document and press Control V to paste the article there.

      I hope this helps, Joan.
      Just a thought – is the Lord using the gift of ministering (giving practical help) in this virtual church situation that we find ourselves in?

  51. Aileen Rodriguez on March 25, 2020 at 2:41 am

    I don’ t know what are you thinking about Church but it’s not only for a place for worship. According to me Church is the place where people together without any discriminations, spreading love and faith and also good messages.

    • Antony on March 25, 2020 at 4:24 pm

      I find it difficult going to church and it’s not a reflection on ANY of the people who go there, they all go out of their way to make me feel welcome. It’s not them it’s me 🙂

      I have some sort of mental idiosyncrasy that makes me long for people’s company and greatly enjoy it but at the same time look forward to the relief of being alone again. I tried to explain this to my gf Prue a couple of years ago when we were splitting up but I think I made a mess of it.

      I suspect that there’s a place for me, a very sparsely populated place, in God’s plan and maybe I can fit in with that plan without having to go to a church. I hope so. I was an SDA for 13 years and these days there’s a cafe in town I go to on Saturdays where I sit with my iPad and a long black coffee (just one a week – occasionally two) and study God-stuff. I write about it as I do this; this helps me with discernment and is something I’ve done since I started prep school back in 1951. It also helps me remember the logic behind my beliefs concerning God, Jesus, the Bible, etc. Now and then I get a chance to talk about that with people when they ask me what I’m reading or writing.

      I like to think mine is the personality that God meant me to have (tho could be wrong about that) and that God’s happy for me to go with that. I sincerely hope that is the case and that I’ll be joining you all in the after-life one day.

      Btw they’ve closed all the cafes in Australia since last Saturday. And churches. No doubt there’ll be plans B for both of us.

      Thanks Aileen, I wrote this for general community consumption not as a reply to you but took advantage of your post until I can work out how to otherwise post a comment.

    • Dale Hanken on May 12, 2020 at 9:20 am

      I quite church because all I found was discrimination. Lies like love the sinner, hate the sin. Whose sin. Prayers for discrimination against fools who don’t want to sell to the LGBT. I don’t care who someone loves if they are happy. God says not to judge and we are all sinners doesn’t say what is worse sin
      Then the fools say the earth is 10000 yrs ago. Surprised those dinosaurs didn’t eat those jews in the desert. No I’m done. I won’t pay a bunch of crooks for their prayers

      • Jeremy Bickel on August 29, 2020 at 9:34 am

        Hate YOUR sin, Dale. Hate your own sin, first. But listen, if you haven’t done the gospel first, then no amount of morality can help you! Confess with your mouth Master Jesus, and believe in your heart that He died for our sins according to the Scriptures (He didn’t just die – He did it on purpose, because we needed Him to, just like the prophesies of the Old Testament said He would die and just like the Scriptures of the New Testament recorded it), then He was buried, then God raised Him from the dead on the third day (exactly in accordance with the Scriptures), then He was seen by Peter, and the 12 disciples, and more than 500 brothers at once (most of whom were still alive when this formulation of the gospel was going around), then He was seen after His Resurrection by James, and the disciples (besides the 12, who followed Him around), then He was seen by Paul, who wrote about half the New Testament. Confess with your mouth Master Jesus, because you believe THESE THINGS. THAT’S ALL. HE is Master, not your church and not your imagination about Him. He can see your heart, man! Fear Him!!!!

        After that, these other things will make more sense, and you’ll be in a better position to appreciate the good and to work against the evil, helpfully and from a standpoint of actual love. God does hate the sin, but not the sinner – He loves the sinner, as evidenced by sending His only natural Son to be beaten and die (even though He didn’t deserve any such thing – He’s The King Of Kings!). God’s love is active, see, and not just words. We really are naturally wicked — it’s really quite obvious, and even our coverings of good works are wicked coverings to attempt to cover up our own evil; it’s impossible! Merely believing on Christ for what He’s done and calling on His name – Master Jesus – not only covers us but also gives us power to work against our sin (which we never had naturally), because God’s Spirit is inside all who are saved according to the Scriptures.. Fear, speak AND do this little thing, and trusting Him always to do it for us, since we know we have believed Him and confessed Him and done all God has given us little, putrid people to do.

        Doing Romans 10:9a & 10:10b for salvation, due to believing 1 Corinthians 15:3-8, results in the righteousness of Romans 10:9b & 10:10a. (We get righteousness by believing the Resurrection! Wild, isn’t it?! The Spirit Who raised Him from death is full of goodness and He loves righteousness – we real Christians have a literal new nature, not only psychologically but thoroughly and in fact).

  52. Jim on March 22, 2020 at 8:08 am

    What about many of us good single men that don’t have a wife and family? And many of us would’ve really wanted that as well.

  53. Kenneth Gray on March 12, 2020 at 11:50 am

    I stopped going to Church because I can’t afford to go.
    God hasn’t given me enough to be a proper Christian. I can’t afford to pay tithes, give offerings, help the poor and pay my expenses. You don’t know how often I don’t have clean clothes, because I don’t have the money needed. When I look in a modern church, all I see is excessive wealth. God doesn’t need Mahogany pews, or a gigantic pipe organ, not to mention the expensive stained glass or the gold decorations. On top of that most Churches treat you with distain if you can’t afford 10% every week. I get paid once a month so 10% every week adds up to 40% to 50% of my income. The way that Churches seem to covet money is appalling. Look at TV preachers, always demanding money for God’s free word. Churches (religion) is no longer about fellowship, God or Jesus, it has become a greed inspired business. Every week the Pastors sermon seems to include preaching about giving more money to the church. How many billions of dollars worth of treasure does the Catholic church hoard in the Vatican. I was told by a priest that the riches are God’s and can’t be spent to help people in need. The same priest said that it is every day Christians that are to help the poor, not the churches responsibility. I agree that Christians do have a responsibility to help the poor ( even when you are one of the poor), but I believe that the church should be helping people. Not hoarding wealth, God doesn’t have a use for riches. Church is always demanding more. Thanks for the opportunity to be “heard” and may God Bless You.

    • Guest on March 20, 2020 at 6:43 am

      I go to a Independent Baptist Church. They’re one of the groups that tend to believe in the Bible the most. They don’t force offerings, but they still use the collection plate for those that are willing to donate. It’s always good to go to a church that teaches the Word of God.

      • ChurchNBackbone on May 3, 2020 at 12:02 am

        “I go to a Independent Baptist Church. They’re one of the groups that tend to believe in the Bible the most. They don’t force offerings, but they still use the collection plate for those that are willing to donate. It’s always good to go to a church that teaches the Word of God.”
        Teach or they dictate? I will never darken the door of another IFB church!

    • Linda on April 11, 2020 at 5:41 pm

      Kenneth, I’m sorry about your experience. Yes, there are churches that seem to be constantly asking for money. If this has been your experience, please keep looking at different churches and ask God to send you to the right one. He will. God does tell us to pay tithe (10% of your income, not 40 or 50%), but He also promises to bless us when we do. Read that in Micah. Also, though churches are places to fellowship and worship God, your duty is to Him, not to the people running the church. In other words, read your Bible and follow it, not the people. Blessings as you keep searching for Him.

    • Paul on April 13, 2020 at 2:03 am

      This article is a terrible attempt to guilt Believers. I got so screwed by this huge mega church in Rancho Cucamonga, CA. The pastor (who is a disciple of Oral Robert’s ) runs an abundant $$$$ factory machine. Fancy cars, buildings and productions. A cheap imitation of Hollywood. And absolutely no accountability between attendees and leadership. Things get swept under the rug if ya know what I mean. I was devastated by what happened to me there and how I was treated when I transparently told leadership.
      I’m done with going to church. Hypocrites, backstabbers and liars.
      I will continue to read my Bible and pray and be accountable to my friends. I will also listen to my favorite pastor online, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!

    • rodrigo on September 12, 2020 at 6:52 am

      with all due respect, 10% is 10%, there is no way it adds to 30 or 40. I´m reading your arguments and the only thing I can say is, please check your math, you have a deep flawed understanding of percentage.

    • Jeremy Bickel on September 12, 2020 at 8:54 am

      Kenneth, what do these churches say about the gospel? I mean salvation doctrine? Being saved is the first priority, after all. What they seem to know for themselves and then what they tell others about it tells you whether they are trustworthy with other things.

      Doing Romans 10:9a & 10:10b for salvation, due to believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, results in the righteousness of Romans 10:9b & 10:10a! There are (as I’ve counted it) 4 beliefs and one action (which is not a work of the Mosaic Law, mind you, even though it *is* an action). Read it and do it directly. Then find out how much care is taken to explain it – do they ever mention Christ’s death *for our sins* or His Resurrection (or burial or subsequent witnesses)? Do they say that salvation comes by calling on the name of Master Jesus, confessing Him with your mouth? It’s what the Bible says. Paul said he got the set of beliefs that save us through a tradition; who are we to change such a tradition of such specific, concise, direct, exact things *to* believe about Christ? Who are we to say that the action of confessing with our mouths Master Jesus is not really salvation, even though Paul – the Apostle to the wider world beyond Israel – explicitly said – twice – that it is the turning point by which we are saved!?

      Now, reset. Go back and ask if they even mention any such thing at all. It is the definition of Christianity! :^D Use it to differentiate whether you are dealing with Christians in the first place. Do they praise God for His death for our sins? Do they consider in spiritual songs the Spirit Who raised Him up from the dead, by Whose Law we do behave with right behavior (Romans 8:2)? From there, do they feed you with knowledge that your sins are forgiven but that you must live by this other – non-written – law (Romans 6-8; Hebrews 5-10)?

      Find a church that teaches the basics of Christianity well and also adds good things from the whole Bible (teaching every single book in it), especially Paul’s letters, and which orders itself based on those New Testament books that focus on how an assembly of Christians should be and its authority (1 & 2 Timothy and Titus).

      Yearn toward God, Himself, directly, Christian! Love Him, and do whatever you know He has told us all. We are equal in Him. Take every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ (2 Corinthians 10:5). Do everything, working toward Christ and making Christ your pleasure every day and at all times, especially as you believe more and more that He is your life!

      We are not commanded to tithe. We are not ancient Israel!! The New Testament teaches us something wonderful about Law and about how we should act. Learn actual it, and live in Christ by His Spirit.

    • Christopher Daniel Spurling on January 26, 2021 at 6:14 am

      That priest had no idea what the truth was just like most these churches now days, your story actually makes every fiber of me want to cry for you. Those tithes are solely to provide for those who can’t provide for themselves but no church practices that, they all say if they were to give out to every need then there would no longer have a church, but if they were doing the real work of Yah they would give to all in faith and would never go without. I am so sorry they have treated you and many others this way Yah does love you sir.

  54. Pastor John Wagner on March 3, 2020 at 10:40 am

    What they will achieve in life who have done with the church? Patience is important, if you are keen to enjoy good times, be prepared for bad times as well.

    • William on July 3, 2020 at 2:13 am

      Let’s see, I’ve achieved peace and a better understanding of the gospel.

      Doesn’t sound like you’re concerned about the spiritual health of the people here who have endured spiritual abuse, “Pastor.” Sounds more like you’re interested in protecting your line of work.

  55. Samantha on January 19, 2020 at 2:46 pm

    I’m transgender. I also identify as a conservative(ish) Christian.

    I take to heart the verse in 1 Corinthians 6:9-12 where it says
    ” 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything.”

    The bulk of the LGBT ppl hate the church because they tell themselves that they are not sinful, or that the church hates them because it tells them the truth. Yes, you are sinful. So am I. So are drunks, con artists, prostitutes, and depressed people. That’s truth. “If we say we are without sin we deceive ourselves” and more importantly we are not doing our best not to be mastered by anything. We are letting sin control our political and social behaviors.

    So back to the point. These people want to remake the church so that it tells them what they want to hear, refusing to accept it until they split the church or something. If you killed two kids because you got really drunk one night and drove around, which is a more authentic message? “You did nothing wrong, you’re not responsible.” Or “yeah that did happen, but we’re gonna see if we can make you feel welcome and/or get you sober.” No, I don’t think gays need to change to be right with God. I’m LGBT myself, and I know that grace is about God redeeming at Christ’s expense, but one thing missing from this is a sense where we actually understand this isn’t of handing out a free pass to people who want to undermine the message of grace to turn it into “I’m okay you’re okay” time. Nah. I’m sinful, you’re sinful, now we need to understand this in order to understand why Jesus is in our lives, not go around destroying churches because they hurt our feelings.

    My church is about to split, and I honestly do not know what to do now.

    • wayne on January 29, 2020 at 2:55 pm

      If there is one thing God hates, its people who’s (inner) docile gullible beings (he describes as sheep) being led astray by the (inner) shepherds of church leaders by way of false teaching upon what he describes (metaphorically) as hills and mountains..beds..vineyards…secret chambers…stones..High places..and many many more.

      The bible is a spiritual book, the problem Iv’e had with ‘religious folk’ is they read it with a fleshy mind..and follow it in the same way..literally word for word

      You say people want to re-make the church so that it tells them what they want to hear..who are ‘These people’ that you mention?

      There is a verse in Isaiah 57 (6) which reads..

      Among the smooth stones of the stream is thy portion, they are thy lot…
      And he finishes by asking
      ‘Should I receive comfort (healing…peace) in these?’

      ‘These smooth stones’ are the very assemblies that will preach the things that the sheeple want to hear and promise the things that sheeple want to have (by way of false prophesies and interpretations of tongues) They tell their flock “everything is going to be alright”
      Hence the question..
      ‘Shall I receive comfort in these?’

      (Jeremiah 5v30-31 is relating to the same thing)

      You say your church is about to split?

      I say..

      Step through the chasm and move on..

      Psalm 91 v16 states that YOU will show him YOUR salvation
      Salvation is truth… So this will be YOUR TRUTH, and YOUR TRUTH (not mine) shall set YOU free

      Sod those who sit on the earthly judgement seats of the ‘High places’
      Prepare YOUR ‘stuff for removing’ (Ezekiel 12) by justifying YOUR reasons for departure..

      And leave

      Keep reading the scriptures, and seek for more of a spiritual understanding of them.

      And as you leave remember Jesus words

      And whosoever shall not receive you…..(Matthew 6v11)

      • Jeremy Bickel on January 30, 2020 at 2:25 pm

        Master Jesus’ is Truth. He sets free those who confess Master Jesus verbally to admit His Lordship openly and believe God resurrected Him, bringing salvation and righteousness in *this* world!

    • Jeremy Bickel on January 30, 2020 at 2:23 pm

      These confessions seem genuine, but you lack two things: 1) Confess verbally and openly admit that Jesus is Master. That is the only way the Bible gives us to be saved. If you are His slave, then 2) because you know that God resurrected Master Jesus, we who call on His name (“Master Jesus”), His slaves will be changed in our bodies when we see Him, and *that* drives us to do *everything* we know that God says He wants and is right. You seem to know that behaving with homosexuality is against God’s command, so do not. If you are totally unwilling, how do you know that the license you take is not an indication that you have not really confessed Jesus is Master? If you hold on to the world’s ways, there is a certain fear that remains, and fear is against your faith. You cannot have faith by willpower, but only by doing from the heart that form of confession He, through the witness of Paul, told us in Romans 10:9; see also verse 10 & 1 Corinthians 15:1-8 for the reasons behind the salvation doctrine of Romans 10:9. Christians do try to do the right thing in every area, and God pulls us up to doing so when we cry out to Him with a whole heart. People feel compelled into sin because of their lusts, and supernaturally compelled because of demons. There is a demon of homosexuality. God graciously warned us against the act. That is why the Church is so very much against it. Do not think of hurt feelings anymore, but laud Christ openly with actions that support words that are of great value in bringing Christians together.

  56. Sam on December 25, 2019 at 10:21 am

    Just saying, maybe it’s time articles like this stop the gaslighting, and the church admits what we already know:

    The. Church. Does. Not. Want. Men. Especially single ones.

    There, I said it, and it’s true. I’m one of the alienated ones, so I should know, and not just with one church.

    The church pedestalizes women and ignores their sin or blames it all on men, while endlessly castigating men for sin both real and imagined and labeling them with every negative label possible, the same way the world does.

    The church worships not The Lord, but weddings, marriage, children and families. The church alienates single men and then asks where they are.

    You, the church, know the answer, and no, it isn’t because the men hate God, it isn’t because they don’t seek The Lord.

    The men are not there because you do not want them there.

    You’d frankly rather they all die and go to hell than interrupt your unBiblical 24/7/365 familyolitry fest.

    As long as ageism, misandry, familyolitry and marriage statism are the orders of the day, the men will stay away.

    But you already know that.

    And last but definitely not least, how about teaching the Word Of God, as in the full council? All you do now is cherry pick verses entirely out of context and make entire doctrines around them.

    • mark kelly on January 9, 2020 at 8:27 pm

      Every self proclaimed christian I come across are all racial homophobes with no respect for women. Ashholes

      • Nback on May 3, 2020 at 12:13 am

        Sounds like you are a Christianphobe…not to mention your strawmans about no respect for women at all & racial homophobes

    • Grace on January 29, 2020 at 8:01 am

      Sam…Your perspective got my attention. I grew up with the nagging feeling that women are “second class” in Biblical history and in the church. However, it did not seem repulsive or unjust because it was Eve, after all, who introduced rebellion against the law of God. However, after years of study, that is, observing “life” from God’s viewpoint, that I realized He created men and women as separate and distinct genders who are dependent on each other allows us to grasp the multifaceted-being of our God. Therefore, whatever the reason that would cause anyone to feel demoted, it is Satan’s intention, not God’s.
      It is IMPERATIVE that we protect gender DISTINCTIVENESS and gender ROLES or we lose our proper understanding of all that God wants us to know to relate to Him properly. GENDER FRAUD is an abomination (stinking sin) to our Creator.

      • Xavier on June 11, 2020 at 10:54 pm

        Grace…(lol)
        This is exactly why people leave the church–idiots who claim to know how God thinks. This judgmental attitude is what will be your downfall. Your sin is not above anyone else’s– sin is sin. However, to the hypocrite (like you) that believes that they speak for God, they have never sinned a day in their life. LOL
        You can not save anyone from hell and you don’t get to decide who will go. Instead of being such a holier than thou hypocritical jerk try praying for someone’s salvation. You will be surprised to know that the hell you find yourself in will be just as hot as anyone else’s

    • JASON on March 20, 2020 at 8:05 am

      If you think women are ” second class” according to the bible, I would like to challenge you with this question.. Why did the son of man, choose a woman to be the very first person to see him after he rose from the dead? Why would man even add that to the bible if for one it wasn’t true or women had little value? I believe its because women are very important to the church

  57. bigpond imap setting on December 3, 2019 at 11:14 pm

    Excellent article..ts a good site to explore ..Thanks for the blog post.Really thank you! Much obliged..

  58. Fred on November 28, 2019 at 9:53 am

    Why am I done with church?

    Because the church is done with me! The church doesn’t want me or people like me in its midst.

    What is my crime? Why am I a pariah and therefore unwanted by the church?

    My age, gender, marital status and parental status. The church does not want single, mature unchilded men in its congregations. Period.

    Considering the last experience I had at church, in which the pastor’s wife – are you freaking kidding me!!! – told me I was being gossiped about after only a few visits where I’d revealed nothing about myself as I was only trying to observe at that point- I thought I would try one more time.

    Knowing already what most of the churches think of people like me, I emailed several churches just to test the waters before going, to see if a mature, single, unmarried and unchilded man would be welcome.

    No church – not one – even cared enough to respond to my questions. Not. Even. One. Let that sink in. I did.

    Now, if I was married with kids, I’d be just another one of the “good guys.” If I was a teenager or even college age, the same.

    But, as a single unmarried mature man, I am only fit to be marginalized and sent to hell.

    When you single ladies wonder where the single men are in church, ask your pastors. The pastors probably don’t want them around. Or, maybe you don’t want them around either.

    Predator. Potential rapist. Toxic masculinity. Creeper. Loser. This is what the church thinks of people like me.

    That’s why I’m sitting here on Thanksgiving Day writing this.

    Thank you so much, church. The love of Jesus is so evident in you. You should be proud of yourselves, in keeping “those people” out of your social club. I’m sure you already are.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 28, 2019 at 10:32 am

      After you let it un-sink in you, be the best Christian they’ve ever seen. Only talk about Christ – you don’t have a family to mention. Talk about Christ, helping them, and not always *just* revealing *them*. What does *Christ* mean to you ..relationship-wise?

      • Fred on November 28, 2019 at 12:11 pm

        Wow. I rest my case.

        • Robbin Meissner on December 5, 2019 at 3:41 pm

          I Have never been so betrayed than by those who sit in the seat of judgment in the name of Christ who loves me. I know they are few and far between who strive to realy know him. I hope for you brother and know the feeling of exile from the hearts that do not know him. Sorrow.

        • Jeremy Bickel on July 3, 2020 at 6:27 am

          Fred. I have no understanding of how you could have taken offense at my encouraging and real response to your dilemma. If you simply hate, then why look for people to try to be around in order to understand Christ together. Go off in your loneliness and find Him – He is there, also, you know. I’m not kidding of being flippant – I am quite sincere. Go away from these toxic churches.

          Do you look for a church that preaches the *real* gospel, or are *you* really looking for a social club? Think about it. Do you want a church that tells you that you are entirely wicked, even in your good works? That’s step 0 of the gospel, you know. Then find one also that tells you – overtly says it from time to time – that salvation comes certainly but only to whoever calls on the name of Master Jesus, due to believing His death is effective to save all who do call on His name in faith. Step 2 isn’t even about salvation anymore, because it’s wrapped up in Step 1. Step 2 says that we get *righteousness* by believing the Resurrection of Master Jesus Christ. Start with a church that knows to tell you *that* (but only if you do confess Master Jesus in these beliefs, please). Their demeaners will make sense to you, and you will be able to have real relationship based on truth in all the corners of existence if you first separate yourself to Christ’s actual Church.

          I have a lot of hope that this can help Christians (and *you* *are* welcome :^D).

      • William on July 3, 2020 at 2:29 am

        Jeremy, after that rude response to Fred, perhaps you should start working on being the best Christian the world has ever seen before you tell others to do so. Or am I asking too much for you to actually lead by example?

        • Jeremy Bickel on July 3, 2020 at 6:29 am

          I’m looking into it, William.

          • William on July 12, 2020 at 12:18 pm

            While you look into it, do us a favor and spare us from your pompous, self-absorbed malarkey.



        • Jeremy Bickel on July 12, 2020 at 12:36 pm

          Can you be more specific? I’m willing to change, but I have to know what to change into. If you give me specific things you have seen that I have done wrong according to the Scriptures, then I desire Master Jesus to *fOrCE* me to change. Perhaps you can help by pointing out my actual error. He will temper me well; I know it; especially as I apply what I know from His Scriptures.

    • Ancient Dave on November 30, 2019 at 3:34 pm

      I am so sorry for your hurt. I have been hurt by the church too. However, I am praying for you. I hated the church so much that there came a time I thought of hurting all them…I was going to kill those in my own church. I was bitter and mad at my church. I was treated like a loser and outsider in my own youth group. I was mad and angry. I just had to go to church because of parents and had no choice, end of the story. I have so many examples of leaders I that I trusted let me down and many others. I got into a dark place, with thoughts of taking matters into my own hands. However, something happened. I realized I had hurt people too and I was no better. I cried out to God to save me and He did. He wrapped me into His arms and worked on my heart…it was a slow pace but He changed me and healed me. In spite of all the pain I have experienced in the church, I am learning to love them anyway because I have been like them too and I am one of them. I am so sorry you are done with the church but if you are, I just want you to know that God never was done with me and I struggle seeing why He is done with you or even His screwed up church. Let me know how I can pray for you.

      • Fred on December 2, 2019 at 3:01 pm

        Well, you could pray that there’s a place for me in Heaven apart from everyone else, if there is a place for me at all. God’s people don’t want me around apparently, so I don’t want to be around them either. I don’t go where I’m not wanted.

        Far be it for me to be someone’s eyesore.

        • Dan on December 2, 2019 at 7:38 pm

          Hey man, I really feel you, and this article doesn’t really help address the issues that we face. I am used to a ton of theological club soda coupled with dogmatic pretentiousness in churches and I’m over it. And I find myself here on this site where they have a Twitter link after every paragraph so you can tweet their most “profound” statements. Kill me. You and I don’t need “church” we need God and fellowship. If you got a discord I’d love to talk to you.

          • Ancient Dave on December 3, 2019 at 5:51 pm

            Dan…..you know I desire and hunger for fellowship! You have no idea how much fellowship I want in the church. I desire it soo much that sometimes I get depressed and feel soo alone and sad. However, God has called to be a pastor and I must have sheep to even shepherd in the first place. So no, I am not giving up on God’s people. You know why? Because God never gave up on me when I was the worse example of what a Christian should be, and shame on us to give up on God’s people and not choose love. We do not need to give up on God’s people….we need to call them back to sound teachings handed down from Jesus, we need to call them back to what the Bible says instead of man says, we need to cry for them and call them back to repentance and turning from their evil ways. However, I cannot do that alone. I need other Christians to do what God needs me to do, and when we give up on God’s people….then you might as well give up on me and leave alone in my little world where so many people have given up on me and left me all by myself. :*(



        • Ancient Dave on December 3, 2019 at 5:41 pm

          I am praying for you to find healing in your heart.

          • Dan on December 4, 2019 at 11:43 am

            Your whole comment just seems so detached from the actual purpose of church. Like really? You take someone’s problem and turn the conversation to being about you? I wasn’t even talking to you. I should go to church so you can shepherd me and if not I’m giving up on God’s people? That’s pretty presumptuous, oh what a pity it is that you just have so much spiritual water in your life and so many good ideas but nobody is around to hear them because they are walking away from you, God’s tool of holy shepherding. I don’t think the completion or execution of the will of God is going to defer in your life based on whether or not people are choosing to not go to your church. I think that God’s will will come to fruition in your life regardless of how much other people go to your church or any church, and let’s not forget that God works in mysterious and sublime ways and it may actually be God’s will that so many are detaching themselves from the contemporary Christian church and attaching themselves to bible study or fellowship without a pundit. Maybe it should be the “shepherds” of these churches looking inwardly to identify if they are actually serving spiritual food or if they’re just jabbering about half truths to make themselves more important seeming rather than humble. I’m just saying, when one person of a certain demographic moves away from a product, it’s their problem. When hundreds or thousands move away from a product they used to use and like, then you gotta start looking at the company.

            “If your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it
            out and throw it away from you.”

            Have you even stopped to consider that the church may be the eye in which causes one to stumble?



          • Ancient Dave on December 4, 2019 at 6:12 pm

            Dan….that is so unfair the way you have to responded to me like that.

            For 1) it is not my intention to make this all about myself. But this is a personal topic for me and important to me. So yes there is a personal piece for me just as it would be for anyone in the church. You accused me of being selfish just because I am being transparent. Can’t we be honest with each other?

            2) You don’t know me, you don’t know what I actually believe, you just assume to know me and thus condemn me. Label me with all other Christians or believers. You assumed and judged me like you know my heart and get me. But you don’t know me. Only God does and you have no right to set yourself up as God on the judgement seat. I’m not talking about accountability, this ain’t accountability this is pure condemnation and very unfair and unloving in the way you chose to respond.

            3) I want to make my self clear. I don’t care if you go to my or even church. It is NOT about going to church but it is about being the church. But again you have no idea what I believe, and you just judge me like I do. I meet with two guys, we read the Bible together, we fellowship at restaurants and places we eat. I still call that church by the way. Not going to my church or any church is giving up on God’s people. Giving up God’s people is refusing to hang out or meet any other believer rather that is at a coffee shop, a mall, or whatever. I don’t care where you meet and I will shepherd you regardless if it is at a house or whatever.

            4) I comment like I do because this should be a safe discussion to deal with real and hard issues facing this topic. But instead, like any internet comment section it becomes a place of judgement and condemnation. I forgive you guys by the way.



          • Dan on December 4, 2019 at 7:44 pm

            Okay man, listen. I am and was angry with you. Maybe I was more angry than I needed to be, because I understand the both of us are just two idiots on a keyboard making statements with flawed knowledge. And please trust me that I mean this as gently as possible that I don’t especially care if you or anyone finds anything unfair. Life’s not fair and that’s good because if it was we’d all be damned. What irritates me about what you said, is that I was not talking to you. You have written all over this post and made you points abundantly clear and you chose to butt into a conversation where I was reaching out to try and talk to someone. You seem to not have proofread your post or you are completely ignorant to how it may come across to a reader who is already extremely disenfranchised with the contemporary western christian religion. I really really encourage you to reread what I said and what other people have said to check to see if it may actually apply to you. You come across as insanely pretentious and downright emotionally manipulative. Generally people that identify these things take exception to them. I left the church because I was having to fight it to teach children what the bible actually says. I turned my back on “the church” to turn toward being theologically fed and to be part of fellowship. I don’t care if I turn my back on you if you are not walking with me to actually support my walk with Christ. I’m sure you can sense some anger and resentment from me. That’s good. I don’t need you to say you forgive me. That does nothing for me, mainly because I did not apologize and just saying that you forgive us (btw) just sounds passive aggressive. I’m not used to that. I’m a career infantryman and I’m generally used to people bluntly saying what they mean regardless of who may think it’s unfair, mean, or whatever. So how about this, say exactly what you want and be as honest as you want, and I’ll do the same and we’ll see where that goes? Just remember, I will state my disagreement and it won’t be as tactful as your friends.



          • Ancient Dave on December 5, 2019 at 2:56 am

            Dan…..look man I will admit I probably need to work on my internet skills and ability to communicate. I should do better in how I communicate and respond. You are welcome to believe what you want about me or anyone. You have that right.

            I am signing out.



        • Elle Bee on February 16, 2020 at 9:52 am

          Being rejected by people in church because you are a single man. I am sorry. Rejection sucks. Jesus was rejected by His own. He knows how you feel. I have been mis judged and rejected too by people in church. Rejection and mis judged and gossiped about makes me or anyone want to run and protect themselves from being hurt like that again. But Jesus didn’t run. He suffered the whole thing even into death but came back to life and is ready to receive any one who rejected Him. The Father in the story of the prodigal son was rejected. But he didn’t close himself off. Please forgive the people who were prejudice against you because you are a single man. I know it hurts but don’t give up. Jesus also said if you love those who love you what due is that? But love those who don’t love you. Go to church and draw your strength from Christ to love those blind prejudice people to Christ. I know it’s hard to be where you aren’t wanted. I have been there. I wasn’t the type of person some people wanted in there church. But through Christ I persevered and He changed me and He changed them. I still go through it sometimes. But it makes me more like Christ. Don’t you want to be more like Christ? Well, count the cost. The path of the cross is painful and often feels lonely. But you are never alone. Believe the bible not your feelings or what you see in your circumstances. Trust God is working in what you don’t see in your circumstances.

          • Gordon on May 26, 2021 at 9:01 am

            @Ricky Sandefur
            Why are you butting in here and accusing us of butting into your business? You might as well go into a physics convention and start ranting about how they should stop insisting that the world is round.



      • Robbin Meissner on December 5, 2019 at 3:49 pm

        Thank you. How wonderfull is the working of LOVE. His words through believers ministering to one another. I am encouraged. He is in you.

      • William on July 3, 2020 at 2:26 am

        Seriously Dave, you need to get professional help from a therapist or psychiatrist. For your own well-being.

        We are both victims of spiritual abuse. However, having the urge to kill everyone at your church for any reason is absolutely not acceptable and I fear what would happen if you go through that again.

    • Patricia Hampton. the pastor on December 23, 2019 at 7:40 pm

      If you lived in My town we would welcome you with open arms. Everyone is welcome and we except new people as family. Married, single, divorced, black, white. EVERYONE Welcome. My. Vernon, Illinois

  59. Linda on November 22, 2019 at 6:49 am

    To ancient dave: the reason for leaving a “church” in my case is the false teaching in all the churches. I have found one that is expounding scripture, but also preaching to the unsaved in the so called “church” meeting.

    Swap the word church for the ‘ecclesia’ (called out ones) and you have a right meaning of meeting together. When did the ecclesia meeting on a Sunday become an outreach for the unsaved.

    Then there is the problem of seeming to be in an audience looking, rather than being in fellowship with each other and the Holy Spirit leading. The clock has become important though. The thing is, I have been out of church and content, but did not see anyone (retired). No christians I know willing to meet house to house. So I went back to “church.” Maybe when persecution comes it will be different.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 2:31 pm

      You’re looking for a club structure, where everyone has to say “Jesus is Master” at the door (and “God raised Him from the dead”, as an optional courtesy). It *could* be done. Without this, though, it’s better to both get close enough with some who are not total apostates, in faith believing you are not constantly sinning (with your mature conscience) by being around those who aren’t *quite* completely apostates by everything the Bible says I have to do to establish it, and, in this culture, love and mercy slow me down in my process there – a little for normal matters and not at all for the big ones.. We still watch.

    • Ancient Dave on November 30, 2019 at 3:38 pm

      I agree with you but however if we meet, we must meet together and do life. If we cannot do that then what is the point of being the church. The problem is not where we meet together to do life but the problem is in America….we are giving up on the church aka the people. If the underground church in China is willing to still do like with each other, and not give up on meeting with each other, then what is our excuse? I am hurt, does not match my lifestyle? Really?!?!? You got to be kidding me.

    • Ancient Dave on November 30, 2019 at 3:48 pm

      Dear God, I forgive your people……your church for the hurts they have caused me. Do not hold this sin against them. I know they have hurt me but I refuse to give up on your people, as some are choosing to do. I forgive those people too, please lead them back.

  60. Michaelcla on October 11, 2019 at 12:33 am

    According to Church is a place where everyone is equal and get blessings by Jesus Christ an believes in Humanity.

    • Mikey on November 11, 2019 at 1:44 am

      An absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

      • jacqueline on November 11, 2019 at 4:46 am

        Evidence is all around you but people who are blind cannot see.

        • Tom on November 15, 2019 at 6:33 am

          Please show me the spot in the bible where going into a building and being told to stand, sit, sing, stand, sit, sing (the same songs every week and years), pray, and then pay in advance for a performance while the pastor makes a nice salary, hires family and friends into leadership and grows their business is biblical thing? How about come down to an old fashioned alter and get right or many of the other man made traditions?

          “Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet” Acts 7:48.

          • Jacqueline on November 15, 2019 at 6:39 am

            You are describing a religious organisation. That is not the Lord Jesus Christ snd His teaching.



          • Amy Porter, a learning growing struggling disciple of Christ on November 23, 2019 at 10:17 am

            I can’t show you a spot in the Bible where it says exactly your words, but I can invite you to a church that doesn’t have a paid clergy, doesn’t hire any one and offers everyone the opportunity to serve in leadership positions. A church that reaches out to the “ecclesiastical” and offers them covenants with the Lord, made at an actual alter, and at the same time calling all the “unsaved” to come learn and find salvation thru Jesus Christ. But you might have to leave behind some of your old notions and open your mind and heart to the evidence that God is not dead and has given more evidence of Himself and His Son than just a Bible that has been translated by hundreds of imperfect hands. ❤️



      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 2:34 pm

        The word “not” is usually in that statement.. Think. What you said is that just because you cannot see it, that means it is not there. That is Humanism, not Christianity.

    • Mikey on November 11, 2019 at 1:47 am

      Religion was invented when the first con man met the first sucker.

      • Jacqueline on November 11, 2019 at 4:52 am

        Religions are invented but The Lord Jesus Christ is real.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 2:35 pm

        L Ron Hubbard was sorry in the end that he went with religion..

        • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 2:35 pm

          [Reference Walter Martin on Scientology]

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 2:32 pm

      Jesus Christ does not bless humanity, but His Own Christians, even when we forget Him, because He has us in holy (special) relationship.

  61. Robert on September 5, 2019 at 8:45 am

    HI, I am unable to find anyone in my community that is willing to get up before dawn and meet daily. I am not a fool, I am sure there are a few that would but I cannot find them. Therefore, I get up and worship, study and pray on my own. My local congregation has very little interest in these things. It”s mostly fundraisers and activities, which I am not that interested in. How do I seek this biblical church experience that you recommend? I have begun praying that God would lead me to these people.

    • Autumn Moon on September 5, 2019 at 5:59 pm

      To Richard Paulson. The fact you have stepped out on your own to perduce your deeper walk with our Lord Jesus Christ doing your worship service is wonderful. I too have been shown by the Lord to step out and embrace him fully take my prayer request for others and the issues that’s coming of the world and just talk to the Lord all through the day to help me with what ever I am doing. I use to be lonely in my walk in Christianity but God showed me in his word if I only have him I have everything. I asked God to use me for his glory. Acts of kindness to others especially Seniors. Go to a nursing home and viset the people there. They are so lonely. I visit the women there you could visit the men. Take the Bible and read to them.God inspired me to sew dresses for little girls I sewed all my life and missed doing it. I do not charge for the dresses for low income families. I know you want Christian fellowship but God wants to use you to lift that lonelyness and fill it with reaching out to others. Be a big brother to kids that have no Dad there for them. Play basket ball with them. God doesn’t want you to take the light of Jesus Christ and his it under a bushel basket filled with lonelyness. Take you talents your hunger for God and share it with others. I am sure there are community needs you can get involved in. God revealed to me and said it’s not about you Autumn it’s about Jesus Christ and taking his word out to a sick and dieing world. I found a church where the preaching is the truth and I go to hear sing worship and the most of the people treat me like a ghost. But I decided those that do that was not going to still my joy. I had Jesus Christ and he looks down on me and sees my face, singing raising my hands prasieing him. And maybe one or two people speak to me but I got Jesus and the devil is not going to cause me to leave where I am growing in the truth. I quit going for a long time and let the devil beat me up with lonelyness. God opened my eyes to see the mess in the churches and the world and I went back to church full of joy leaving I know I got Jesus if I don’t have a soul to care about me. And now the doors are sung open and the devil is on the run. Richard God wants to use you to go out with your beautiful faith you have and share it. He will show you how just trust God.

      • Autumn Moon on September 6, 2019 at 1:03 am

        You will not find a perfect church.you have to ask yourself am I going to worship the Lord or to be received by the people that go their, to fit in. Jesus faced all kinds reactions after rejection, and didn’t fit in anywhere but close to only a very few. He didn’t come to fit in but to be lifted up to draw all into him. He didn’t come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. You can’t make people do what they say they believe in but don’t live it. I use to stay away from these people but I see them an opportunity to go and speak to them now saying things like good to see you today, and those that avoid me a little shunning, I acknowledge them when I work my way to cross their paths with words of kindness received or not. I go to church worship the Lord. I don’t get involved in the massive little events, fundraisers, nor the clicks that is in all Church’s, I do not join membership to any church I belong to Jesus Christ first and foremost and go where he sends me. Have I had to tollerate indiffrence, heartbreak, diliberate actions, yes. Count the cost to truly follow Christ. Sometimes mother’s would let me measure their little girl for a dress and they go on my list. When I finished her 2dresses and call to let them know some want return my call or tell me they don’t want them or give me a wrong number. This has happened once and a while and I am sad because here is a little girl looking forward to her dress at no charge. I find someone to give them to but I think of the little girl that the mother wouldn’t let me give it to her because the mother rejected me and just ran a game on me. I tell them i it’s the love of Jesus Christ. It still gave me an opportunity to at least witness about Jesus. God sees all things. But many received the dresses we hold hands and I pray for them and visit them now and then. They put on their dresses and dance around. I pray for those that I couldn’t reach most of all. Jesus was rejected a lot as those that truly follow him. But worth the journey . The doors are opening. Just don’t give up, don’t quit. Keep the faith.

      • Jacqueline on November 11, 2019 at 5:09 am

        “If I only have Him I have everything.” (Autumn Moon).

        I now know this after years battling with no church fellowship. I eventually settled down after taking hold of the fact that my life is in His hands. Our Lord recently led me to a congregation who stick to the truth and go through scripture verse by verse and book by book. Through seeking God by prayer elders are open to correction. It is an open brethren fellowship with humble elders leading.

    • Autumn Moon on September 8, 2019 at 8:23 am

      I am guilty of getting tired of what I was seeing going on in the church’s and stopped going then went back then stopped and couldn’t wrap myself around what was I looking for and bouncing from here to there. A big turn around tool place one day as I was not praying but (ranting) out loud to God about the reason why I didn’t want to go to church and the things I encountered and saw was not what I read in the Bible. Lets back up just a minute. When I was growing up we didn’t go to church but we had a man to come to the school and have a bible study in the class which is unheard of in today’s time. This helped me to know that God loved me, beyond the chaos going on in my family which was just hell. I talked to God all the time, and picked flowers and laid them on big rocks for Him. When I left home and was on my own I went to church I played the auto harp sang and went many places. Then my attention got off of my purpose and on to what was going on that was not right in the church. Big mistake. Isn’t that just like the devil to feed you just enough thoughts to cause you to doubt. Just like he did Eve in the garden. Not being a fully mature Christian I took the bait and then came the big down fall. I thought I could just do it on my own that I didn’t need church I had the Bible as my guide. Instead of keeping my eyes on the point man Jesus Christ I let the little things wrong going on around me in the church cloud my judgement. Solomon 2: 15 Take us the foxes, the little foxes that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes. That’s the way the devil works. Just enough to start doubt. So when I thought I knew it all and stopped going to church I was on my own and it was not long before little by little I fell spiritually flat on my little know it all face. Mark 4: 19 And the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches and the lust of other things entering in choke the word and it becometh unfruitful. There”s me and still thinking I knew it all, the devil had me right in the palm of his hand. As I found out the devil does not care who you are, he is only interested in the percentages. Now going back to my ranting. For troughs that say they are true believers that believe that God will tell you things this is what happened. My ranting stopped when these words came to me clear as a bell. ” You are the biggest hypocrite of them all. You took your eyes off of me and became consumed with the problems instead of being the solution. How do you know what’s in the heart of man or who I choose to do my will when I want on my time? How do you know these you persecute that go to church that at some given moment they may hear My Word preached that might wake them up and pierce their heart and bring them to repentance? You don’t know what they are struggling with, there battles, a heart that’s broken that’s not seen on the out side or hear their their prayers in the dark of the night ? I am the potter. Isaiah 45:9 Woe unto Him who strives with Him who formed him,a pot among earthen pots! Does the clay say to him who forms it, What are you making? or Your work has no handles? Look at what you have become, you that think you know it all. If you don’t like what you see in the church don’t do it, you’re there to learn also what not to do in church and in the world. What do you miss from going to Church?”( I started to cry, I could not dispute what was said to me. It was my wake up call.) He said again” If you will not be used to be a part of the solution then the devil will use you to add to the problem in the world and in Church.” ( my eyes was opened to what I allowed to happen and I am going to church, and the one I go to preaches the Word of God and about problems and changes that need to be made with in ourselves. I go to worship the Lord, not to get side tracked into any thing that’s politics. The Pastor can not make everybody be and do what they should as true believers nor can anyone else it’s not mine or anyone else’s job and blaming the Church for the reason for not going because of some of the peoples attitudes, or what any one thinks of the people in you own mind is not any ones job. We are there to worship God and to let God use us as (the true believers we say we are) to reach out to a sick and dying world and be part of God’s plan of the solution, to repent of sins, receive Jesus Christ , clean up their lives and show a lost world the Bible is God’s Word has stood the anvils of time that speaks God’s will for mankind , that clearly says what God excepts and what pleases Him and He despises and will not accept, instead of letting the devil worm his thoughts and lies into our minds until we become more of the problem as that’s his goal and purpose. Now the devil greatest triumph to divide the church, has been going on for a long time and growing. God loved me so much He saw my potential and was using me but I let my guard down and started attacking the church the devils playground. Those that criticize the churches and try to do it on your own starting little groups that want to gather together with the same attitude, to read the Bible, pray these groups are still forming something organized for those that label churches organized religion. God showed me in His word this was going to happen the seed of doubt to destroy what God gave us that people have fought and gave their lives to preserve. The devils lie intent first to divide the church labeling it and organized religion and then saying it’s not biblical, then saying the Bible has been rewritten so many times you can’t believe any of it, one lie after another. But people are still getting saved and returning to church. Glory to God, God sees all things and as broken and pathetic as we are as were the disciples that Jesus worked with, God will use us, clean us up, for His will on earth as it is in heaven. I live to please God and if I don’t He lets me know. Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked : for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

      • Richard Paulson on September 25, 2019 at 3:21 am

        Hello Autumn Moon.

        Thank you for your heart to reach out. I endeavour to do what I can in reaching out to others. God however has to be the one to open doors and change circumstances. God has to be the one to lead. I am not giving up. But what you call the church is not the church unless it is willing to fellowship in the truth. Just attending a man made building is not going to church. If I am not finding the fellowship, then it is because people are not really Christian, but just religious. Many years ago I was under religious bondage for listening to the false ministers and churches false teaching. I am no longer under that religious bondage because I found the truth of the gospel for myself. Someone here falsely accused me of have a religious spirit, which I do not have. It is in fact that I have been freed from religious bondage and I see the truth clearly, that makes me a target of false accusations. Remember even Noah could not find anyone in the world that was following God. We are living in days like that.

      • Richard Paulson on October 7, 2019 at 8:13 pm

        Hello Autumn Moon,

        Recently God showed me that for me personally, it is his will for me to go to these organized churches where I can. I missed it last year because I altogether stopped going. But I have started going again. It isn’t because I join any of them. But God showed me that this is God’s will for me personally. So I cannot fulfill the will of God for my life if I avoid these places. It is indeed a mission field. God humbles himself also to come alongside his people for their good. God has shown me that even though the truth is not preached properly and even though they don’t do things God’s way, and even though no one has fellowship with me, I am still to go. Otherwise I will not be doing the will of God. As soon as I saw this I went to one such church the next day. I remembered the things God showed me in the past and realized how I missed it in this respect. I actually saw no point in going, but I didn’t realize the importance of my going, thinking I had to only wait for some “open door”. I am sure that I won’t make that mistake again. I believe there will be open doors for me to work. But my just being there is still bringing God with me. Even just my being there is doing the will of God.

        If you read this it would be nice to hear from you again. God bless.

      • Jacqueline on November 5, 2019 at 8:23 am

        Autumn Moon, i am one of those going from church to church trying to find one that teaches scripture and is not all messed up.

        Your testimony hit me so hard I had to walk away from reading it for a few minutes. It is so much like me.
        I was so convicted during the middle of it I literally had to distract myself to absorb who I have been being. Pretty near all of the churches I have spent time in have said they were sorry I was leaving. One said, don’t go we need you, and I went anyway.

        Dear sister I am so saddened that I too have been part of the problem and have walked away from God using me and yes, me also learning. I will mention that the scriptures warn us to ‘mark and avoid false teachers’ so this is why I left all the churches. I have now found one that teaches scripture verse by verse, book by book, and wants to be open to correction by the Lord. This church has been shrinking, it is mainly older people and it is not in my neighbourhood, so fellowship is not there. I thank you for relaying your testimony. Love in Christ. Jacqueline.

    • Tammy on September 15, 2019 at 11:33 pm

      You are right, Carey. The people are the church. God is wanting to bring us back to assembling just like the people did in the Book of Acts. (Acts 1:14) You need that no one should teach you. The Holy Spirit is your teacher. (1John 2:27) We don’t need to lift up a preacher of Pastor and follow him. We follow Jesus only. We don’t need to give them money to buy airplanes, a new 2nd car for the wife, a bigger house, and live a high life while we are laboring to make ends meet. We can help the poor on the streets, the stranger, the fatherless, the widows, the orphans, (Deuteronomy 24:19). You can look for House Churches or Home Churches in your area. They are also called “Organic Churches. I have been attending an assembly for a year now. We are learning the true Word of God. We are learning the Seven Feasts of the Bible and celebrating them. We are learning how important the 4th Commandment is: Honor the Sabbath. You will find one in your community. I will pray for you.

    • Jacqueline on November 5, 2019 at 7:41 am

      Robert, I totally relate to what you say. It is my belief that unless persecution comes we will never find believers who want to truly worship God in Spirit and truth.

    • Amy Porter, a learning growing struggling disciple of Christ on November 23, 2019 at 10:26 am

      Good morning! 😊 I wake up and drive my children to their early morning seminary class each day before they head to school. The other families in my ward and church do the same. The teacher holds the “class” in their own home and is “called to serve” in this capacity. Many different members are asked to volunteer their time to do this. Not paid clergy, not religious students, just normal ordinary people with ordinary homes and ordinary jobs. They study together helping each to participate. Still, it is up to every individual to gain and strengthen their own testimony of our savior Jesus Christ, and as such, most of our members take their own personal time to dedicate to their own study and worship each day, just as you do. 😊

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 2:42 pm

      Robert, that’s what you should do, until you find some. If not, go to all the churches again and mark out in your own mind just what is acceptable in the practical climate, not transgressing God in your heart. By faith, be able to huddle together with some evil around, and be bravely Christ’s light there, too. The World is a cinch compared with real, living beings behaving badly.. So, love them! Praise Jesus. And you’ll start seeing them around. You’re welcome to read my site, but you need people around you, not relying on the society’s allowances of Internet and ..electricity. So, lighten up in Christ’s hilarious, wondrous, multilayered reality, not fearing the images from the world that look close to good things you’re seeing from God, and ..continue in Christ, waiting well, brother. Sing Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs in your heart making melody to JHWH and His Son YHSHWH! And ignore forms over meaning.

    • Dora on December 29, 2019 at 11:39 pm

      Hi Robert
      My name is Dora and I was feeling like you. Try C3 Church, they have connect group, prayers group many that you can choose from. I hope is help, the church it will help you to develop knowledge of the Gospel and engage with others. However, the
      relationship within you and God is personal and is all up to you.
      I hope this helped you
      God bless you
      Dora

  62. JGHEMLOCKGREENWOODTREE on August 27, 2019 at 9:45 am

    The true church of God doesn’t belong to any organized religion. They most certainly don’t belong to any of the zillion different denominations, since there is only ONE body and ONE head, which is Christ Jesus. The members of the true church of Philadelphia are scattered and they are not sitting in any building called ‘Church,’ especially those churches that allows pagan worship inside God’s house–not a chance!

    The churches of today are not anything but a corporate money making machine. They invest money in big screen televisions, coffee, beer and snack vendors, selling their CD’s in their overpriced book shops and stores. As they fill their pockets and their seats of their church, the communities around them are poor, fatherless, homeless, physically ill, drug and alcohol addicted and dying. The pastors live in million dollar homes, with another beach house for recreation, private airplanes etc… while their community is wasting away. It’s a joke to even see the hundreds of different churches whose beliefs are all different, teaching utter lies, and they compete with each other for cold hard cash, instead of working together as one body to help their communities. Jesus would never approve and He doesn’t. If He was here today, he would have 98% of these building’s tables flipped over, and he’d a whipped the majority of these fake pastors running the dog and pony show. Wait till they see what is coming to them if they don’t change.

    The Kingdom of God is within us, and he taught LOVE. He warned us that in the ‘ End-Times’ that the majority of churches would be despicable, and they really are. None of them are the Church of Philadelphia–NOT a chance! I will never feel guilty for not going into a church that is set up for destruction. Yeah! Destruction! Who dares to call the Most High God a house of worship and then drags in pagan Xmas trees, blood ritual sacrifices of the pagan god Ishtar, Pan, Horus, The Babylonian gods, Tamarez, Saturnalia and literally encourages God’s people to perform abomination after abomination against Him? It’s quite sickening to watch. We even have the Catholics watching the pope putting viles of blood and human bone of humans on god’s alters, and telling people he can command Jesus off His mercy seat. That ain’t Jesus–that’s the Devil. The mesmerized sheep don’t bat an eye.

    This article is written by someone who doesn’t really know the Most High God. If they did, they surely wouldn’t be promoting what The Great I Am Himself is going to smash down in His righteous anger! They are against Him and not for Him. They should never make anyone feel guilty for not desiring to enter into a building that will be no more in the near future. I wouldn’t be caught dead in any of these garbage places full of statues, pagan worship, and deception. The key word here is ‘dead.’ I am sure there must be a few PURE sanctified and purified houses of God out there… I sure hope so. After traveling throughout the United States… Haven’t seen one yet.

    We are told to worship Him in spirit and in truth. I would hardly say that any of the churches that I have seen are worshiping Elohim in spirit and in truth. Thanks but no thanks. Free Agents of the Most High are out there, but they will be the ones to rise up after the judgements pour down upon the earth. The fake pastors of these fake churches won’t be found on earth any longer. Their churches will be whisked away in the whirlwind. Anybody following them, supporting them, bowing to them and their pagan idolatry won’t be around either. The Great I Am is a loving, long suffering God, but He is going to allow the Devil to claim what is his very soon. The true people of God will see with their eyes the punishment of the wicked. but it will not come near them. Judgement begins in the House of the Lord….so it will begin there and rightfully so. God is not just love but a God of JUSTICE, JUDGEMENT AND WRATH. These buildings will feel the wrath when the whirlwinds come!

    When people really begin to believe in God and begin to have a great fear of God, they will no longer enter into these pagan places. They themselves will know what is going to happen if they dare participate in idolatry, while serving other gods. Nobody can sit at the table with Jesus and participate in the deeds of darkness with demons! The Devil is in most of these churches! Don’t be shocked if you get caught in the judgment because of it. These churches down here are deadly to a person’s spirit! Wake up people! God is real and He ain’t playing, especially with those who slap the name of Elohim on a house that honors Satan.

    I pray that people wake up and see what they are actually doing before it’s too late. God takes these things very serious…. even if the majority of church members and wolf pastors don’t. Expect the judgements to begin shortly….You can’t say that you weren’t warned. It’s definitely the end-times! Don’t let the Devil dupe you!

    • Autumn Moon on September 3, 2019 at 1:07 pm

      Thank you. I see this. So e are to take God s word out to a sick and dieing world. That’s my mission. But what I am experiencing people are so turned off because their experiences in church. They just walk away. It’s so sad. God help us to continue trying to reach.them.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:03 pm

        That’s it, Autumn Moon – change yourself, prayerfully and with faith, and the world will see, wonder, be drawn ..to He Who Is our Life.

    • Tammy on September 16, 2019 at 12:27 am

      JGHEMLOCKGREENWOODTREE: YOU ARE SO RIGHT! THANK YOU FOR YOUR BOLDNESS IN POSTING THIS! I LEFT THE “CHURCH’ BECAUSE OF THE CELEBRATION IN THE CHURCH ON HALLOWEEN. THEY WERE CALLING IT “HARVEST FESTIVAL”, BUT THE PASTOR ALLOWED THEM TO DRESS IN HALLOWEEN COSTUMES, WHATEVER THEY WANTED. ONE OF THE YOUNG MEN DRESSED AS A WOMAN. I COULD FEEL THE SPIRIT OF CONFUSION ENTER THE CHURCH BUILDING. THEY TOLD THE PEOPLE TO DRESS HOWEVER THEY WANTED TO, JUST DON’T BRING GUNS!!!! THEY GAVE OUT STARBUCK’S GIFT CARDS TO ALL THE NEW MEMBERS. I MENTIONED TO THEM THAT STARBUCKS LOGO WAS REPRESENTING THE MERMAID “SIREN”, WHO LURED SAILORS TO THEIR DEATH BY PUTTING LUST IN THEIR HEARTS. THEY MENTIONED THAT THEY WOULD LOOK INTO IT, BUT JUST IGNORED IT. THEY LIFTED UP BOOKS AND TEACHINGS BY RICK WARREN AND PRAISED BOOKS THAT HAD CATHOLIC INUENDOS. I BROUGHT THIS TO THEIR ATTENTION, BUT WAS ONLY IGNORED. IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO LEAVE THE “CHURCH” BECAUSE I HAD BUILT UP A GOOD REPUTATION. EVERYONE KNEW MY NAME. I WAS A GREETER. I WAS A MEMBER OF THE WOMEN’S PRAYER GROUP, A LEADER IN SPECIAL TEACHING CLASSES THEY HAD, ALL LEADING ME TO PRIDE IN MY ACCOMPLISHMENTS. FINALLY, THE LORD SPOKE TO MY HEART TO GET OUT. HE WANTED TO SEPARATE ME FROM THIS. THE PEOPLE FROM THE CHURCH THOUGHT THAT I WAS CRAZY. THEY COULDN’T UNDERSTAND WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO ME. I NOW ATTEND A WEEKLY SHABBAT SERVICE WITH FELLOW BELIEVERS IN CHRIST. WE CELEBRATE THE SEVEN BIBLE FEASTS. WE HONOR ALL THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, ESPECIALLY “HONOR THE SABBATH”.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:06 pm

        That’s an encouraging move, Tammy. I’m sure your new fellow Christians are glad whenever another Christian joins them — the world sure is wicked.. Anyhow, just make sure they preach all of Christ! Shalom.

    • Richard Paulson on September 25, 2019 at 6:10 am

      JGHEMLOCKGREENWOODTREE, You made very good comments, most of which I appreciate, however, just a couple of things I wanted to mention. I believe in the Authorized Bible (King James), and I believe it would please the Lord for you to know that all of its words are perfectly true. (I am not saying that you may not already see it as the perfect translation.) However, the word Elohim is not found therein. God is pleased for us to exalt the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and we need not look to any other said names for the true God other than what is in the Scripture. If God wanted us to use the name “Elohim”, it would appear in the King James Bible for us. Also, what do you think if someone visits one of these organized churches in the way of seeking fellowship or to reach out to others but not to join with organizations or support them?Because there may be lost sheep that are there. Also I have known in times past God’s presence with others in such places, although the religious leaders are holding them in bondage. Do you think a person could visit them without participating in the evil? Or do you think it is too dangerous to make that attempt?

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:10 pm

        I think it’s far too dangerous, Richard Paulson, for someone who has said what you have said about the KJV to go that many steps away from your own burden. Work out what you have already in your own conscience first ..completely. Then you will have a sort of clarity. Then you will go in all the nooks and crannies that God knows He has for you! It’s fun to *really* trust Him!

        • Richard Paulson on June 24, 2020 at 1:13 pm

          Jeremy, I do have things clear to me, and I have a good conscience. God has shown me to go until I get thrown out or rejected or treated with such dishonour that shows that they are rejecting God or dishonouring God. God had me going to 3 places not long ago until I was rejected or dishonoured or not welcomed anymore in those places. This is typical. It’s not that I am afraid of any danger to myself from these said or so-called “Christian” churches. Currently, I am not going anywhere, but not because I simply decided to leave, but because there is no place for me to go at present, yet again. It is because I am thrown out or rejected or dishonoured. It’s only when God says, “don’t go”, that I don’t go. This is what I have learned is God’s way.

      • Heidi Jipson on August 17, 2020 at 9:34 pm

        With respect, the Bible was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. No, the word Elohim is not in the English Bible, but it IS a Hebrew name for our Father in Heaven. It is not the name of another god, but the name of the one true God.

  63. Donte on August 13, 2019 at 9:53 am

    Using the New Testament (specifically the writings of Paul) as the prime reason we should go to church is circular logic. It’s based on an assumption that the New Testament is 100%, guaranteed God’s words. I have come to a point in my life where I am questioning that. I used to make fun of red-letter Christians. Now I know I’m one of them. Whatever Jesus said is good enough for me. Anyone who says the words of Jesus isn’t enough should probably repeat that to themselves slowly. Jesus is God, and if the only thing I do is live life according to his message, that is sufficient for me. Jesus never said, “gather together once or twice a week to fellowship and study scripture.” Jesus kept it simple: Love God, love one another. Why do we complicated that with “Yeah that, but you gotta go to church too.” Churches need us to go to keep the lights on and the pastor’s mortgage paid. That may seem overly simplistic, but if they really followed Paul’s message, they would pay attention to how he worked wherever he went to take care of his needs and the needs of those traveling with him. Pastors today expect to be paid a living salary to be in ministry. That’s not Biblical, even by their own New Testament standards. Let them work full-time jobs, take nothing more than an honorarium from the fellowship they serve, and then I’ll consider going back. But that won’t happen. The church mortgage, the pastor and assistant pastors’ salaries, the secretary’s pay – all of it requires butts in seats; so the “it’s Biblical to go to church” rings very hollow. The original believers gathered in each other’s houses and poured into one another through relationships founded on LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER. Let’s get back to that.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:16 pm

      Interpreting Paul – that righteous Apostle to the Gentiles – and interpreting Peter is not as big a deal as knowing that Jesus’ earthly ministry was TO JEWS under THE LAW. Understand, dear one; accept with belief, even though your flesh rebels! Accept it!! You’ve got people so fiercely holding onto the concept the *some* English translation is *perfect*, which is wrong by easy proof in God’s actual Universe, but they know it’s something to hold on to for a reason, which is that, certainly in the more general sense, He has not allowed us to be lied to in His name. *That’s* a matter of honorable trust in Him – not in Cephas or Teutullian or Jerome or Apollos or Paul — or of Jesus during His earthly ministry. The shock comes from preprogramming more than honest calculation now. ..doesn’t it?

  64. alex on July 19, 2019 at 11:22 pm

    From someone living outside the USA I see many of these comments as a reflection of the shallowness many in the world see embedded in your culture that has infected all layers of “church”
    Leaders who want total control. Followers who want it their way and all their needs met. Why waste all this hate energy debating, justifying, criticizing. Maybe your divisive culture is the real problem

  65. LD on July 19, 2019 at 7:52 pm

    Yes, definitely! Let’s get rid of most of what is falsely called “The New Testament” that you say replaces the teaching of JESUS CHRIST!! That’s the problem right there. “Church people” have apostatized from the teaching of Jesus Christ to follow this “Paul” character: who generated a whole different religion of institutionalism, male domination and female subjugation, State worship, authority and submission… a whole religious system that is completely opposite EVERYTHING Jesus Christ taught.

    Jesus taught about love and equality. Jesus taught that everything was about being born-again; loving God with all our hearts, minds, souls, and strengths; and loving others as ourselves. Jesus didn’t preach the hate and the sexism that Paul preached – not the statism – not the institutionalism – no nothing that Paul preached did Jesus Christ teach and preach.

    So, who is the Messiah? Well, Jesus is the Messiah if you are truly saved.

    But, if you want another religion of dead empty institutionalism of man worship and the degradation of women: Paul is your Messiah. You don’t even have to be born again to follow Paul!! Because Paul was not born again himself either in his stories. His wild over the top exaggerations about how many times he was whipped and shipwrecked and all that: in the gnostic books of Luke/Acts and “epistles of Paul”.

    And, just “who is” this “Paul”? A character made up by Marcion: a rapist and Luciferian who generated “The Antithesis” of the “epistles of Paul” and “Luke/Acts” telling us that “Paul” was the only true apostle because Paul preached a Jesus who was actually Lucifer.

    No, I am just “not into” the Luciferian gnostic false epistles of “Paul”. Why would I be?

    The teachings of Jesus mean everything to me.

    • Tom (from Germany) on July 30, 2019 at 6:00 am

      I can hardly believe it that there are Christians in the U.S. who claim that Paul’s letters to the Churches are not scripture. At this point I’m stepping out of the discussion. It is foundation and base of all further discussion that the Bible as we know it is Holy Scripture and inspired by the Holy Spirit Himself. There is definitely no such thing as “political correctness” as we know it today in the Bible. The Bible is call to repentance and turning around from all the sinful ways by surrendering to Jesus Christ and following Him alone.

    • Spiritual Hammer on August 27, 2019 at 9:33 am

      Finally someone who gets it! Marcion was the very first “Christian” to start compiling epistles and only one gospel into a canon of Scripture for Christians to read and live by. Absolutely true. Otherwise we would have not had a New Testament. Now we know why Paul and Christ disagree so much in the writings, and Paul seems to know very little about Jesus’ actual life in his letters. Excellent post!

    • Asher on November 18, 2019 at 3:31 pm

      LD, the teachings of Jesus mean nothing to you. If they did, then you would not subtract from the words of the Bible according your finite understanding and therefore store up wrath for yourself. You rantings about Paul mean nothing. Paul’s and Jesus’s teachings do not conflict nor do Paul’s James’s (Jesus’s brother’s) teachings conflict. But there is conflict in you– whether you’re consciously attempting to deceive the people of God or you are ‘taken with a spirit’ and are under the delusion of that spirit– if you think there is conflict between any two books, chapters, or verses in the Bible. You don’t have the Holy Spirit; you’ve been too easily deceived. May God have mercy on you, to turn you from pride and open your eyes– like He did Nebuchadnezzar– to recognize that God is the Most High and that His wisdom to organize and lead the writing and putting together of the Bible is far above your ability to dictate or choose what is right and what is wrong.

      By your own words, I can perceive that you are not even in the preschool of the Spirit yet. You have not been led into the classroom. You are still snuggled against your mother’s bosom and have never heard any ‘teachings’; yet, “the teachings of Jesus mean everything” to you. Repent. When you put your wisdom above God’s and start challenging words that are not in ‘red letters’ (when even words in red letters seems to contradict each other), then you are following ‘another jesus’. You have been deceived. Repent. Turn away from complex religion and turn to God’s simple religion, “pure and undefiled before God”, in that you stick to what you clearly understand (e.g. eat, work, treat others with the same regard you have for yourself, etc.) and let God reveal to you what you are not clear about. God help you and those who are being pulled into the anti-Paul error.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:23 pm

      Paul made such a work for Christ, his enemies on the human plane are *still* reeling from greater-granddad’s defeats at that honest man’s words. Paul was tested for truth by his own peers at the time – you just don’t like what Christ has revealed through not Muhammad, not Joseph Jr., but through God’s people, not the Pope, but God’s people, even today. There is ONE SPIRIT in Christianity THROUGH TIME. You’re welcome. No need to send me $40, even as a tiny token of the value you put on this most excellent answer to your off-the-top exaggeration. Just look at Jesus – not at Paul – but don’t deny Jesus’ THINGS just because you know Paul said them in the Bible God did not lie to us with. It’s a matter of honorable faith in what God is doing with YOU as with us all.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:25 pm

        Only confess Master Jesus verbally and believe heartily that God resurrected Him. Be saved, and start looking up, waiting (which is all we’re doing now, anyhow). Love more than *you* can, else you have not measured up to the law Christ preached in the 4 gospels (until the ends of each, of course, when the actions by Christ referenced in Paul’s gospel happened).

  66. PJ on May 21, 2019 at 12:50 am

    My problem is not with the Church. I am quite aware that the Church and gathering is biblical. My problem is with organized religion pretending to be the Church! My problem is organized religion trying to pass as the Body of Christ! I have experienced God in ways that I have never imagined when I walked away from organized religion. I have experienced the grace and love of God in ways that I’ve never experienced in all my church life, which is from birth. The “church” was actually blocking and preventing me from seeing Christ. There is church, with all its grand business model organization and buildings and whatever. Then there is the Body of Christ that is the genuine Church…the real called out ones, whose soul focus is on Christ. I’ll take Christ over “church” anytime!

    • Jim T. on May 21, 2019 at 9:46 am

      Well put PJ !
      It is a true blessing to read something deep and meaningful from your heart. I was beginning to tire over the debating and arguing by those who are professing to be Christians but do not realize they are ensnared in religion. As for professed atheists…they are nothing more than attention seekers. There is no need to attack – counter attack. Simply share the light of truth from your heart that the Holy Spirit has illuminated for you…as you have graciously done. Thanks again. Peace!

    • Rolf Thielen on July 1, 2019 at 3:15 am

      Amen PJ!

    • Tom (from Germany) on July 7, 2019 at 5:52 am

      The reason why I left church is the low spiritual waters from which pastors drink. Besides nowadays you must be something in order go get on. Wealth, prestige, houses, cars and expensive designer clothes are important to get acknowledged. The wealthy sit in the first row, the not so wealthy at the back, that’s exactly the opposite to what James wrote. Singers in the choir are top professionels with extraordinarily worked out voices. Everything must shine like gold. The normal man, often unemployed, can’t afford church any longer. The church today has become a place of expensively paid services. Instead of praying together thex talk together. Prayer, the center of Christianity, has been replaced almost completely by counseling and talking.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:30 pm

        Hang in there, believing our same Master and Savior Jesus The Messiah and only Natural Son of God Whom He sent to Earth in the body to die for us on the cross. Then He was buried, then He arose from death. His servants who wait for Him will do likewise, with gusto! Praise Him now and forever! And hang in there – ask Him to show you some of us, in faith that He is both able and – because you are not sinfully hating Him, you know you asked rightly – willing to do this large feat for you.. and praise Him, always.

    • Craig on July 7, 2019 at 12:02 pm

      Amen Brother and Sister
      We are all and I mean all under orders from Jesus to, “Go Ye Therefore And Teach All Nations Baptizing Them In The Name Of The Father, Son And Holy Spirit”!
      Since leaving organized religion I have shared Gods word and baptized folks who would never set foot in a church. Organized religion wants to elevate church leadership to an exalted position!
      I have news for all: Christ’s message is simple and does not take a higher education to pass along to folks! God made it simple!
      And easy for all to understand!
      Jesus loves you and Jesus loves me with all our flaws!

    • Asher on November 18, 2019 at 3:57 pm

      PJ, well said. christians today have done far more to hinder me from a relationship with God than any atheist, satanist, or crazy person could ever have achieved. 99% of the time when I talk to a christian, the good and godly things in me drain out or get sucked out: faith, hope, love, peace, joy, clarity of vision, etc. What Jesus said to the ministers of His day (teachers of the Law, Pharisees) is true of today’s ministers and christians: “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to” (Matthew 23:13). christians who do not have and do not want a relationship with God (‘entering the Kingdom’) will always hinder anyone else who wants that relationship. It’s amazing to see through continual experience that Jesus’s words and ALL the words in the Bible are 100% true.

      People want you to ‘go to church’. If they had been taught by the Holy Spirit and by genuine shepherds of God, they would have understood that when the Bible says to ‘go to church’, it is talking to a specific group of people and not to everyone who darkens the doorway of a religious building. The Bible is talking to genuine believers when it commands them to gather together. Here is the passage in its entirety which sheds light on the fact that this is not what church buildings on the weekends are observing:

      “Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching” (Hebrews 10:22-25).

      People who attend church buildings surely aren’t thinking of sanctification and “hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience”. They aren’t holding fast to any genuine faith. And for sure they are not considering (thinking of) one another at all. Only genuine believers observe the faith (“hearts sprinkled”), remain faithful (“hold fast the confession”), love the brethren in practice (“consider one another”), honor every member and not just some (“the assembling of ourselves together”). “The manner of some” who don’t assemble is not talking about those who don’t go to a church building but about those who don’t assemble in genuine fellowship. That Hebrews passage is talking only talking to genuine believers and about genuine fellowship. It is not addressing everyone who has ‘joined a religion’ and observes religions get-togethers.

      I became a christian in 1986 at an altar at the age of 7. I became a believer in 1998 on an Amtrak train when God suddenly showed up at the age of 18. ‘Church’ from 1998 suddenly looked the way it actually is: dead, dead, dead. They don’t want the Lord because you can’t have a program and have the Lord at the same time, and since churchgoers serve the clock (schedules, etc.) more than the Lord, they must have a program. Even if they truly desire the Lord, their program which they stick to (their timetable) will always push the Lord out. When Jesus first began to lead me away from ‘church’ in 2000, I began to have an actual relationship with Him– to take His yoke upon me and learn of Him, to live and breathe and gain insight and spiritual nutrition. In the past, Jesus was not found in Jerusalem, the religious capital of the world, but among the common people. Likewise today, He is not found in churches but outside of them where the humble (not the prideful who think they are saved) gather together.

      • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:38 pm

        Sometimes, our physical neighbors *are* Christians who just don’t go to church. Praise Jesus, together with all you find, please.

  67. son on May 19, 2019 at 6:18 pm

    Here we go again, voice in the wilderness. Anybody here planning to vote for Pete Buttigieg? “God made him a homosexual,” he claims, Is that ok, then, according to God? Does anyone out there think than homosexuals CHOOSE to be homosexuals? Or, is it a genetic predisposition? Isn’t it funny how animals don’t practice homosexuality, except for the marsupial lesbian beast named the “Lickalotapus?” Tongue-in-cheek, of course. Well, the Catholic Church didn’t take too kindly to Martin Luther, anymore than it does to Pete Buttigieg trying to make homosexuality appear to be in accordance with The Will of God. Thoughts, folks? What a mess this world has become. Maranatha, Jesus. Come soon, Lord. We need you to make straight your path..

    • son on May 19, 2019 at 6:38 pm

      From the fwiw dept. Best prayer you can make, in general.
      Sharing:
      “I know my life is in your hands, Lord. I know that I shall live in accordance with The Holy Will of God. Thank you for giving me peace with those divine words of holy inspiration in Your Holy Spirit, Jesus.”

  68. HoosierConservative on May 16, 2019 at 7:49 am

    How will these churches stand strong during end-times persecution if they can’t even handle a drop in attendance? How will they hold to their convictions in the future when they’re changing their strategy now every time the revenue drops? The more that North America becomes a post-Christian society, the more radical the church ought to look. Instead we have what amounts to a post-Christian church system. These pastors talk more about Hollywood culture and pop psychology than they talk about the Bible.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:45 pm

      Go a step further, HoosierConservative, and apply the rule again. We don’t have a vibrant, reacting, vigorous core on the surface – in the discussion here much at all. God is faithful, though, to keep His own. Find us, as God wills it, in Jesus’ authoritative name.

  69. Bruce A. Baxter on May 14, 2019 at 5:23 pm

    Are you sure today’s church is Biblical? Church may be a Biblical concept (Church simply means gathering, not an organized religious corporation) but in order for a Church to be as the Bible describes it needs to follow Biblical rules. Does the Church of today do that? NO I DOESN’T. Maybe the independent mom and pop church here and there – but the major factions, who are so corrupt that they have formed commissions who say who is and isn’t “admitted” are NOT.

    The Church organization is engaging in racial separation. Does God approve of that? It makes idols out of it’s leaders and makes them filthy rich, while there are homeless Christians forking over tithes – is THAT the Church of the Bible? pandering to politicians, governments and the ways of the world – afraid to stand up against whatever the world is pushing this time… id THAT God’s plan for Church? Afraid of prosecution, of wealth being taken away – where is the Church as the world falls into deeper and deeper sin? Silent. Is that the Bible church? NO.

    Looking the other way while the Church leaders are engaging in pimpery, adultery, homosexuality, child abuse? Is that the Church we are supposed to go to anyway? Is that what God intended? I don’t think so.

    You can advocate for people going to Church, and point out that we should according to the Bible – but don’t sit there and ignore that the Church of the Bible is not what we have today. And since it does not exist, then don’t deceive people, or try to shame them into not attending the Church of Satan – which is what it is now. The tares have choked out the wheat. The Church is not a building, and people seeking God should not be expected to “fix” this broken Church when they are still in the infancy of their Christianity. That is the job of the Church leadership – to give people a holy place that is practicing as the Bible commands – ON DAY ONE.

    You will have an argument when the Church starts following the Bible. But as of now, everything you say does not apply to the real world, and people who do not go to Church because the Church is corrupt have a perfectly legitimate reason not to go there. It isn’t healthy for our souls and not what God wants us to do. THAT, is following the Bible, not going out of hollow “devotion”.

    • robo421 on May 14, 2019 at 5:49 pm

      Bruce, I could not have said it any better than what you conveyed. I fully agree with you and yes, it is racially devided.

    • fessdo on May 14, 2019 at 6:25 pm

      Bruce,
      You’re beginning to get to it, just stay in the word and keep your eyes on Jesus not the CHURCH. Prospering pastors will not tell you about JESUS,,,, who can free you from the losing end. If you’re lacking in this world you need Jesus who HAS fulfilled that.

    • Asher on November 18, 2019 at 7:39 pm

      Bruce, well said. The church of today is not the Church that the Bible commands us to attend. This author is part of the luciferian agenda to subvert devotion to God and to either persecute and destroy or draw back into the apostate church system those who have actually escaped its corruption. If he continues in that path, he will face his judgment before God alone. No luciferian will cheer his ill-advised audacity; no christian will speak for him; no fallen angel will take up his cause; and Jesus, who is THE Advocate, will not defend him. He will be alone when he faces God, and he will eat his words and his stubborn insistence to live for himself while pretending to live for God. As Jesus said, “many” will hear on that Day, “I never knew you.” The Lake of Fire is not a place for God-haters to congregate and relate and party; it is a place where God-haters will rue the day they were born and will weep and wail and gnash their teeth, unable to find mercy from God and many of them still unwilling to ask for it.

      Cheers also to you Fessdo, Son, and Richard Paulson.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:48 pm

      Church is *not* as it should, yet we must still gather *today*. What are *you* going to do, dear sibling in our same Master and Savior Jesus Christ? Let me relieve your soul in delights concerning Him for a small time, then go back, faithfully waiting. ..together if *you* can. :^D He loves you, and, because He has shown me His own love, deeply, I do, too. Bye for now..

  70. Richard Paulson on May 12, 2019 at 3:50 am

    I myself don’t reject any Christian fellowship, which is really the point. But if the said churches are not Christian then they won’t really fellowship with me on the basis that I am a Christian. It doesn’t matter that they say they are Christians. They are not, because it is they which will not be in fellowship with a genuine Christian. The problem is where can I find a genuine Christian to fellowship with? The ritualistic visitations to man made buildings is not church. The church is a body that lives together daily in fellowship. So Sunday meetings only, or gathering at only certain times of the week at certain allocated hours is them actually saying that they are DONE with the true church of God. This is more the case even because their gatherings are not designed for fellowship or to seek God, but are for controlling the people and for making money.

    • son on May 12, 2019 at 3:49 pm

      Amen, brother, AMEN! The modern church is a BUSINESS. Make no mistake about that.
      The TRUE church is in your heart, where Jesus lives.

      • son on May 12, 2019 at 4:24 pm

        As my beloved brother Fessdo, who evidently was banned from posting on this forum, emphasized, “ONLY THE BLOOD OF JESUS” gets you into Heaven. Do you think going to church will get you into Heaven? Do you think good deeds will get you into Heaven? Do you think accumulating over $40 million, like the renowned pastor Joel Osteen has, will get you into Heaven? Dear brother Fessdo, I hope you are out there and reading this. ONLY THE BLOOD OF JESUS will get you into Heaven. Jesus completed the work of your salvation. Show Him gratitude and reverence, every minute of every day. Our existence is all about Jesus. He is the Source, the Reason, The meaning of life.

        JOHN 10:27-28
        My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
        And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

        • Richard Paulson on May 13, 2019 at 1:13 am

          Hi there “son”.

          I agree that the blood of the Lord Jesus is God’s provision for us to be able to appear before God as blameless of all sins. The blood of Jesus took away our sins before God, which means that he made them appear as white as snow and as sheep’s wool, or as innocence in God’s eyes (thus turning away God’s wrath from us), because they were done in ignorance. See Isaiah 1:18 and Numbers 15:22-36 regarding the reason for the atonement, and Luke 23:34. Jesus did not die for willful sin done in the knowledge of the truth. See also Hebrews 10:26.

          There is an awful fallacy among Christians in saying that Jesus died to “pay for sin” or that he was our “substitute”. I am called to wake up the true church of God to this lie and to see that the opposite is true, which is that Jesus Christ died to prove us innocent to God by his blood. For to have “justification” means to have “proof of innocence”. And we are “justified by his blood” (Romans 5:9). To be justified means to be “shown blameless” or “proved innocent”. Thus even though according to the law of Moses, we are guilty of sin, and therefore cannot be “justified” by it, because the law of Moses is no judge of our spirits, (for that a person can sin with his flesh and yet do so in innocence of spirit), by Jesus Christ the righteous Judge, we can be shown to be truly innocent of all sin to God. This is what Jesus Christ did for us to God, and what he still does for us as our high priest and advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1-2) He did not come to “condemn” us by the cross, which is what the idea of him as our substitute does. Nowhere in the Authorized King James Bible can be found the words “pay for sin” or “substitution”. The idea of Jesus Christ dying as our substitute is completely foreign to the Bible and actually denies the main point of the gospel, because that idea establishes our guilt before God. Therefore it cannot reconcile us to God. Whereas Jesus Christ “taking away” sin, means that sin is not attributed to us by the blood of Jesus Christ. This is the message of reconciliation. This is the gospel which God revealed to me after being a Christian for a number of years. There are so very many Scriptures that verify all of this, as it is as soundly Biblical as one can get.

          Yet what I just said, you are sure never to have heard from anyone else. This is because the said “church” is not the church and the preaching that is universal is opposed to this Gospel.

          Thus it is also written in John 5:28-29: “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”

          Here, there are only two destinies and two realities in the words of Jesus Christ. The truth is that one can ultimately only have done either good or evil, but not both good and evil, in God’s eyes. Thus it is exactly what Jesus Christ says: All those that have done good and only good in God’s eyes, because the blood of Jesus takes away their sin, shall have the resurrection of life. But all those that have done evil, and only evil in God’s eyes, because all the good they may have done has been taken away by their turning to evil works and preferring sin to righteousness, shall have the resurrection of damnation.

          This is different to what is taught by “mainstream Christianity,” but it is exactly what the Scriptures say.

          “Behold the Lamb of God, which TAKETH AWAY the sin of the world.” John 1:29

          Colossians 1:21-22 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh THROUGH DEATH, to present you holy and UNBLAMEABLE and unreproveable in his sight:

          It is even literally stated here that Jesus Christ died to prove our innocence to God. For how can a person be without blame to God if he has sinned at all in the past? Not because he stops sinning, for there must be a record of all his past sins against him, UNLESS, all his past sins can be shown to be acts of innocence to God (and not true sins, because they were not willful), through Jesus Christ bearing them up to God in his body as something other than what they have appeared; namely, as righteousness to God in his offering himself up to God as our righteousness. Thus Jesus Christ turned the sin of ignorance which crucified him (the well meaning sin of the people), into the offering of perfect righteousness to God. This is the reconciliation of the world to God and the most wondrous act.

          Yet you hear the opposite of this preached everywhere in saying that we all deserve death and hell. There are no Bible verses saying that we all deserve death and hell, and that idea is certainly a denial of the good news. But the very existence of the words “justify” and “justified” and “justification” and “justifier” and “justifieth” in the Bible, already states that Jesus died to prove us innocent to God. He rose again from the dead to do the same continually as our high priest.

          How is it possible that the entire church in the whole world has missed this truth when it is plainly stated in Scripture? Because Satan is the preacher in the mouth of all the false ministers and they have filled the world with taking Scripture out of context. For example, you will hear it preached, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” and yet not said in conjunction with the following verse, which says: “Being JUSTIFIED freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” Romans 3:23-24. And the devil who is the accuser, MOST ESPECIALLY does not want anyone to know what that plain English word “justified” really means.

          2 Corinthians 5:19 “To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, NOT IMPUTING their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.”

          To “not impute” sin to us means to “not attribute” sin to us. It does not mean to pay for sin, but it means to say that there is no sin to be found in us. In other words, although the law of Moses says the whole world is guilty of sin, God says that there is justification for sin through Jesus Christ. God says through Jesus Christ to the world: “You have not sinned.” This is the GOOD NEWS of reconciliation. Therefore people should respond to this in being reconciled to God also in their behaviour by the free gift of the Holy Spirit. This is the true grace of God which brings salvation.

          Glory to God!

          • son on May 13, 2019 at 11:02 am

            PHILLIPIANS 4:7
            “And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.”



          • Jim T. on May 13, 2019 at 11:21 am

            It may simply be a misread but I detected an indication that the Blood of Christ does not cover “willful” sin. To that I ask you to consider 1John 1:7; “…but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. ” I made sure to cite the “authorized” King James Version as you seem to favor this version. I pray you continue to seek God’s truth and Ways and do so primarily from the guidance of the Holy Spirit…not a bunch of humans back in the 1600’s.



          • son on May 13, 2019 at 2:38 pm

            Also, re: your representation that “Jesus did not die for willful sin done in the knowledge of the truth.”:
            Are you saying that if you have received Jesus as your Savior that you will no longer be a sinner? Are your sins, which you will inevitably commit since “all have sinned and fallen short of The Glory of God”, unforgiven in that case? You, and I, and all, have the seed of sin within us. We cannot escape it. Jesus died to absolve us from ALL sin, past, present and future. As I once asked Carey (he did not respond to me), “Why would a pastor look at porn?” Answer: because that pastor, like all of us, is a sinner. God’s Mercy is that He forgave us. God knows we are all sinners. Be humble and thankful that God sent Jesus to forgive us.



          • fessdo on May 13, 2019 at 10:57 pm

            Richard,
            You just wrote me a 558 word comment and used the word Jesus just 4 times?



          • Richard Epler on July 30, 2019 at 1:47 am

            No one can rightly say Paul taught truth until they believe God and His words of life and about life and about what a life the pleases Him does – which is the Torah – the commandments and Instructions of God. This is what Jesus taught in Matthew, and why Jesus upheld the Law to the least of the commandments.
            Fact is that Christian Bibles are twisted and deny God and the Teachings of Jesus – they are false translations that tell lies in the name of God.

            onediscipletoanother.org

            Study the quotes of Hebrew Scripture in the NT to the Greek based translations – repleatedly they alter the word of God, the Prophets and Psalms.

            M<ak, Luke, John and Acts all testify against Matthew and the Hebrew Holy Scriptures.



          • T A Bradly on April 1, 2020 at 6:03 pm

            The Christ, Jesus would absolutely not recognize the church of today. The entire church regardless of denomination or religious persuasion has bastardize Christ’s love your neighbor concepts. The church is now more interested in producing money for it’s so called pastors, as it continues to control people’s minds by the threat of hell to intimidate the actions of the flock and to control the politics of the dat



        • fessdo on May 13, 2019 at 6:22 pm

          Richard,
          Get you a bible you can understand,,, Hebrews 10:26 Living Bible (TLB)
          26 If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior after knowing the truth of forgiveness, this sin is not covered by Christ’s death, there is no way to get rid of it.
          If you don’t know Jesus is the Savior here in this verse, then get a clue, or read it again, again, again. My friend “son” is trying to show you that Jesus is the way and the truth!!!! so stop following your religion and start following Jesus. Jesus did a great job, in fact Jesus fulfilled the law so you don’t have too. But it takes faith in that fact.

          • son on May 13, 2019 at 8:22 pm

            Fessdo, beloved brother, SO GOOD to hear from you again! Praise God that you are still here to inspire me with the wisdom He gives you! You have influenced my thinking, probably more than you know, with your faith and experienced wisdom. As I asked Carey, and he did not respond, “why would a pastor look at porn?” What did Peter and Paul and John do when they felt horny? The seed of sin is within every one of us mortal human beings and it won’t go away. That is why we all are sinners and shall continue to sin, regardless of our will or good intentions. THAT IS WHY WE HAVE NO HOPE WITHOUT JESUS! You are right, brother. ONLY BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS ARE WE SAVED! Works just don’t cut it with God, because we have the seed of sin within us and are helpless to resist that. JESUS, JESUS, JESUS, ONLY JESUS. Can any of you out there say you do not sin, STILL, in spite of your professed allegiance to and faith in Jesus? You, WE, are ALL sinners, brethren!
            JOHN 8:3-11
            And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.



          • son on May 13, 2019 at 8:31 pm

            Fessdo, beloved bro, if I read you right here, you are saying, in the scripture you quoted, that if one knows that Jesus is The Lord and denies that knowledge, it is The Unforgivable Sin, and I agree. THAT is the spirit of Anti-Christ, Anathema, who will be destroyed when God returns in The Power of His Glory and The Holy Word is restored to His rightful place as King of All that was, is and shall be I love you SO MUCH, wise and blessed brother Fessdo. Your wisdom has meant so much to me, I can’t begin to tell you.
            I’m SO GLAD you are back on this forum!.



          • Richard Paulson on May 13, 2019 at 10:03 pm

            I will address all of your comments by name.

            Fessdo, you are utterly clueless. It is God that you are rejecting in rejecting my words which are the true Scriptures, not me. There is only one true Bible, and I understand it and you most certainly do not understand the gospel. You are quoting not from the Bible.

            Son, I have been very clear in what I said. If anyone rejects the gospel which I just declared they are not a Christian. If anyone says that Jesus did not die to prove our innocence, after reading what I wrote, they are condemning themselves as guilty. If you say that you are a true sinner then you are saying you cannot go to heaven. There are many Scriptures that say this. For example: According to Nahum 1:2-3:
            “God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies. The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.”
            Anyone who thinks that God just forgives everyone without justice, has a false “Jesus” in their thinking. That’s not the true Biblical Jesus. God only forgives what is just to forgive, and it is only just to forgive the sin of ignorance and weakness of the flesh, which is unmeaning sin, but not just to forgive willful sin.

            Jim T, I follow God in the true Bible, not a bunch of humans as you said. A person cannot just go to the Bible ‘version’ that suits him best. That is foolishness. And the verse you quoted is referring to God cleansing us from all sin in the flesh, not from willful sin. The “cleansing” is not even a literal thing. The literal blood of Jesus does not cleanse you like a soap on your body in a physical sense. This is symbolic language. You don’t even know what it means. But I cannot prove anything to anyone who does not even believe in the actual words of Scripture. But I ask you to consider, 1 John 3:8-9 “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

            Do not any of you pretend that they can explain these Scriptures away as if it is not saying what it is saying, or try to tell me it isn’t the real Scripture. If anyone is really a sinner, and cannot be proven righteous indeed, you can fully expect to go to hell. If you think you can sin willfully and get away with it and do that sin, then you are going to go to hell. You are reprobates if you believe so evilly, after what I declared clearly as the truth. According to Joshua 24:19 “And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.”



          • fessdo on May 13, 2019 at 10:37 pm

            Dave,
            Good to see you’re hanging in their being a inspiration to those who need Jesus. Whether their name be Greg or Richard Paulson the same religious spirit is controlling them, and Jesus ISN’T the Lord and master of their life, so let’s have a bit of pity on them. Dave it’s all about Jesus and not about us. Peace my friend.



          • fessdo on May 13, 2019 at 11:33 pm

            Richard,
            Let me help you here,Hebrews 10:26 Living Bible If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior, If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior, If anyone sins deliberately by rejecting the Savior,,, by rejecting the Savior,,, by rejecting JESUS after knowing the truth of forgiveness. Get it my friend, it’s so simple even a cave man can get it? It’s JESUS not RICHARD that’s the answer.



          • son on May 14, 2019 at 8:38 am

            You know, fessdo, some of the people who post here are so concerned with impressing others with their theological brilliance, they ignore the fact that many of Jesus’ followers, such as myself, don’t need to be Emmanuel Kant or Rene Descartes to love Jesus, worship Him and trust Him for our salvation. As you have emphasized, it’s really just not that complicated. Let me reiterate here:
            JOHN 3:16
            “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
            That’s it. God decreed it and I believe it
            However, if it helps others to delve into every last little nuance of the scriptures, fine, let them indulge themselves. I would only advise that they beware lest they become a stumbling block for another believer with their insistence that they know better than anyone else. Come to think of it, that is EXACTLY the reason I avoid organized church attendance now. There are those who would impose their will and their personal thinking on others, both on this forum and also at the building called a “church”.
            ;).
            Oh, and Carey, I truly appreciate you allowing me to participate on this forum. I do think you are doing the best you can, with a clear conscience, to serve God and inspire others to worship Him.

            Dave



          • son on May 14, 2019 at 8:58 am

            lol, fessdo
            “Richard,
            You just wrote me a 558 word comment”
            You COUNTED? lol!



          • fessdo on May 14, 2019 at 9:14 am

            Dave,
            If I hadn’t gotten sleepy I was going to count Richard’s “I”s and “me”s. The two things “law dogs” love to do is use the old testament and a lot of I’s and me’s in their long powerless stories. Also the thing they hate is to hear or say the name Jesus to much, guess that’s why they stay out of the new testament? The name of Jesus is where the power is and he’s given us the authority to use His name. Now that’s good news.



          • Richard Epler on July 30, 2019 at 1:55 am

            No where in Matthew does Jesus say such a thing. Jesus said Your righteousness must exceed that of the leaders in his day – or there is no way you’ll be in the Kingdom. In fact – where is any prophecy or teaching given by Jesus in Matthew that his righteousness will apply to anyone else but himself? Where? It doesn’t exist. Also – is God incapable to forgive sin without sheading of blood? Read Ezekiel 18. Paul lied against God Almighty and makes Him out ot be no better than a Baal follower sacrificing their children!!!!?????

            Truth from Cain to Jesus is that repenting and doing better is what brings us closer to God. God said man is capable and responsible to overcome his own sin – that it no posses him and rule over him.

            Once again – PAUL LIED, but GOD IS TRUE>



          • Richard on August 6, 2019 at 7:07 pm

            So you believe the Law at Sinai was given by angels who are not God?
            I’ll choose to believe Jesus and God – thank you!



    • Robert on September 5, 2019 at 1:50 pm

      Richard, If you live in the northern part of the eastern seaboard. Perhaps we can find a way to gather. I am praying to meet people that think this way. Anyone else for that matter. I could not drive 4 hours one way, every day, unless the Lord provide a way. In which case I would.

      • Robert on September 5, 2019 at 2:00 pm

        Umm… nevermind. I should have read all of your posts first. I am willing to be open to my understanding of scripture but I am pretty sure the Holy Spirit would not take me here.

    • Jeremy Bickel on November 27, 2019 at 3:52 pm

      I like your framing and your formulation, Christian. Here I am – pick me. Find me on facebook – the dirty forum is useful, after all, and we are *still* in the world.. Love Christ our saving Master Jesus, Whom God resurrected after sending Him to Earth physically, together wherever you find us – His bodily members. Amen.

  71. Richard Paulson on May 12, 2019 at 1:27 am

    I am not “done” with the church. I am a member of the body of Christ wherever they may be (which is the true church), although I am alone. I am alone because the said churches are not the church. The said “Christian organizations” are not the body of Christ. They are not truly Christian. So that has become increasingly evident over many years the more I am led by God into “all the truth.” Most who say they are Christian are not Christian. So my problem is in not being able to find genuine Christians because they do not pass the most basic test of being a true Christian. In proclaiming the gospel I am rejected by the said Christians because they have universally been taught a false gospel which literally denies the reason why Jesus died and the very SUBSTANCE of the meaning of “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.” Many said Christians may say the right words up to a point, but they deny the very substance of the truth of “Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.” If I tell a said Christian what that is, they will not fellowship with me. They will not fellowship or come into the true church of God. Because the church is not a Sunday “service” once per week honouring a man made building. The church is me, which they deny having any fellowship with simply because I do in fact declare the truth.

    • son on May 12, 2019 at 3:53 pm

      Speak freely of our glorious Lord Jesus to anyone and everyone, brother, as His Spirit may prompt you.
      Share Jesus with others.
      Be thankful to Him and humble.
      THAT is the TRUE church.

    • Jim T. on May 14, 2019 at 6:30 am

      1 John 1:8 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

      “If we say that we have no sin”, we deceive ourselves, and “the truth is not in us.” You think more highly of yourself then you aught.

      Who told you you have the “true Bible” ? Not God, I assure you. Jesus clearly stated that the Holy Spirit will guide you to all truth. I cannot find any indication in the Bible that proclaims that an English king and a bunch of men labelled “scholars” would take over for the Holy Spirit in and around the 1600″s. Your verbal assaults on those who are simply sharing what is in their hearts is an indicator of your inner insecurity. You tweak the scriptures to fit what you desire them to say rather than allowing them to speak to you. Case in point is your misrepresentation of Hebrews 10:26. For many centuries the power and control hungry, hell-fire and brimstone types within organized religion have utilized the same misguiding interpretation which results in the lost receiving the false message that there are people who are capable of “not” sinning in the religious arena, and 1John 1:8 says they are liars. If you really take a sincere evaluation of your spiritual walk you will find that you are trying to add some old wine to the new wine…which is never good. Remember Romans 8:1-2; “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” I say all of this with love and I pray our Lord revels to us what is right. Peace.

      • son on May 14, 2019 at 8:52 am

        @Jim T.
        1 JOHN 1:8
        ” If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
        Is there anyone out there that can truthfully say they do not STILL lust?
        What did Paul, Peter and John do when they woke up with a boner?
        Seriously…..the seed of sin is in ALL of us. That’s why God had to sacrifice His Only Begotten Son, out of His Agape for us. Sin is inescapable. Jesus is The Solution to that enigma. No human will ever be perfect on this earth. (Excepting Jesus, of course).

        • Jim T. on May 14, 2019 at 11:44 am

          son,
          Apparently my reply to Richard Paul was entered as a reply to you. I am sorry if it appeared that way. At any rate I am absolutely in agreement with your view. My concern was with what I saw in Richard Paul’s commenting was a sort of subliminal indication that he had successfully gained control over his sinful nature…which as you and I have awakened to is impossible. Why would we even need a Savior if we had even the slightest capability of becoming sinless by our efforts? I was so misguided by the organized religion I grew up in because they transmitted the same message as I seem to see in Richard’s comment that I ended up accepting the belief that I was created to go to hell. I accepted this belief because I found it impossible to be righteous continually and believed that all those people at the church could….so I was some sort of freak. Of course, neither you or I view this as a license to sin. But those of true humility accept their sinful nature, are extremely grateful for the gift of a Savior, which causes us to desire sin less and less. I agree we will not be perfect while in our flesh. Peace!

          • son on May 14, 2019 at 1:28 pm

            Amen, brother!
            As my old friend fessdo says, “We don’t WANT to sin and offend God when we have the Holy Spirit living in us.”
            So, really we are not WILLFULLY sinning, although sin is sin. As you and I agree, we are sinful by nature.
            And, we are admonished in
            MATTHEW 26:41
            “Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
            Peace, brother!

            Dave