A Response To Christians Who Are Done With Church

You hear it all the time.

I’m done with church.

I don’t really need to go to church…my relationship with God is personal.

I’ve had it with organized religion.

The church is a man-made invention, not God’s idea.

I completely understand why a growing number of people are bailing on church. Even people who used to lead in the church often stop attending (here are 9 reasons why church leaders do that).

We’ve spent a lot of time working through the issue of declining church attendance (and growing disillusionment with the church) on this blog and in my leadership podcast. (For a summary of the issues, here’s a piece on the 10 reasons even committed church attenders are attending church less often).

I get it.

The church is far from perfect. Life is complex. There are growing options. And the post-modern mind distrusts most things organized or institutional.

But as trendy as the idea of writing off the church may be, it’s a mistake.

While writing off the church passes as sophisticated thinking, it’s actually the opposite; what if it’s a simplistic and even reductionistic line of thinking that leads nowhere constructive?

The church isn’t even biblical, is it?

People argue the idea of church isn’t even biblical.

So let’s start with the basics.

First if you’re a Christian, church is not something you go to. It’s something you are.

You can’t disassociate from church as a Christian anymore than you can disassociate from humanity as a person.

You don’t go to church. You are the church.

Second, the church was not a human invention. Half-reading the New Testament with one eye closed will still lead you to the inescapable conclusion that the church was God’s idea.

In fact, most of the New Testament is not about the teachings of Jesus. It’s about the work of the church that Jesus initiated and ordained. I won’t fill this post with scripture verses that prove my point, because, quite frankly, you’d have to get rid of the majority of the New Testament to argue that the church was a parenthetical, made-up organization.

If you want to get rid of the church, you also need to get rid of Jesus.

You can’t have one without the other.

Maybe what bothers you should actually amaze you

I understand that the idea of the church being imperfect makes some people despair.

But rather than making us despair, the fact that Jesus started the church with imperfect people should make us marvel at God’s incredible grace.

That God would use ordinary, broken human beings as vessels of his grace, and delight in it is awe-inspiring. He’s proud of how his grace is beating through your imperfect-but-redeemed life and through the church (have you ever read Ephesians 3: 10-11?).

The idea that God would use you and me is pretty amazing. He had other options.

He could have spoken to the world directly, but instead chose to use broken people to showcase his grace to a world in need of redemption.

For sure, community is messy.

People sin. Leaders are sinful.

Most of the New Testament is not a story of an idealized church where everything worked perfectly all the time (just read 1 Corinthians any time you’re frustrated with your church).

Most of the New Testament is a story of Jesus using his followers to spread his love in spite of themselves and as they overcome obstacle after obstacle.

The fact that Christ uses flawed people to accomplish his work on earth is actually a sign of his grace, not a sign of his absence.

The church’s story, as twisted as it gets at times, is a beautiful story of God’s grace, God’s power and God’s redemption.

So, by the way, is your life, which reflects the story of the church more than you would want to admit.

The church gives the world a front row seat to the grace of God.

The ultimate consumerism isn’t going to church…it’s walking away from it

People criticize the church today as being consumeristic. And to some extent, churches cater to consumerism—often to our detriment. I agree that consumerism is a problem for Christianity.

But ironically, much of the dialogue about why people are done with church pushes people deeper into Christian consumerism than it pushes them into deeper discipleship: Here I am, all alone, worshipping God on my schedule when it’s convenient for me.

Listening to a podcast of your favourite preacher while you’re at the gym or on the back deck and pushing three of your favourite worship songs through your ear buds does not make you a more passionate Christ follower.

It usually makes you a less effective one.

Disconnecting yourself from community is actually less faithful than connecting yourself to a flawed community.

If you think the church today isn’t enough (and arguably, we need to reform it), then do what the early Christians did.

If you want a more biblical church…don’t gather weekly, gather daily. Before dawn.

Get up before the sun rises to pray together with other Christians before you go to work. Pool your possessions. Don’t claim anything as your own.

Be willing to lose your job, your home, your family and even your life because you follow Jesus.

Then you’ll be more authentic.

And notice that the early church did indeed gather. 

Gathering always leads to some form of organizing.

To pretend the church doesn’t need to be organized is as logical arguing that society doesn’t need to be organized.

Because community is inevitable, organization is inevitable.

Our ability to organize and to accomplish more together than we can alone is one of the crowning achievements of humanity, and our ability to work together makes Christian effort far more effective. 

It’s also part of God’s design for how we should interact while we’re on this planet. Come to think of it, heaven is a community too.

The only one who wants us to believe that we are better off alone is our enemy.

If you really think about it, it’s actually a very clever tactic.

The church has helped even those who resent the church

Finally, if you’re reading this article and you have any modicum of faith in Jesus, may I suggest your faith is actually the result of the mission of the church.

Very few people come to know Jesus because he appears to them supernaturally when they are alone and calls them by name.

Does that ever happen? Sure. But not to 99.9% of us.

Almost all of us who follow Jesus have had our lives changed by a flawed body called the church that Jesus so passionately loves and calls his own.

Think about that.

We need more church

Do we need more churches? Yes.

Do we need more humble churches? We do.

Do you we need authentic, transparent leadership? Absolutely.

Does the church need to change? Without a doubt.

The church needs continual reformation and transformation.

So what will the future look like?

Will we gather in quite the way we do today in the future? In some ways yes; in others, no.

Hopefully we gather more frequently and work through our differences at a deeper level and impact our communities more powerfully.

These two posts offer 10 predictions about future church attendance and 11 traits of churches that will impact the future.

But regardless of how the church gathers in the future, we will gather…we need to gather.

We Christians need each other, probably now more than ever.

And even if you don’t think you need other Christians, I promise you you do, and so does our world.

Now, more than ever, the world needs Christian working together humbly under Christ to lead people into a growing relationship with him, in whatever innovate and fresh forms that takes.

The church is not dead.

Far from it.

Maybe it’s just beginning to take shape for a brand new era that desperately needs it.

1,526 Comments

  1. Shawn on February 21, 2019 at 10:51 am

    I love my church and what it does for our church community, our neighborhoods, and the world. I find that we do a lot more together than I can accomplish on my own. I see lives changed week after week. I wonder how much time we waste debating about these matters…with time we are to steward? Effective debating has done little if anything for God’s kingdom.

  2. Atheist Man on February 20, 2019 at 2:31 pm

    Church sucks.

  3. Son on February 19, 2019 at 1:05 am

    Are you sleeping, are you sleeping?
    Brother Fessdo, Brother Fessdo?
    Morning bells are ringing, morning bells are ringing
    Ding ding dong, ding ding dong.

    • Todd on February 19, 2019 at 4:49 pm

      Okay, I’m just a simple man. If me being out of the “church” as it has been described here makes me wrong or sinful I can only hope that the sacrificial suffering of Christ is enough to save me from the err of my ways. If it’s not I will certainly suffer the consequences. I just find it hard to imagine that as Jesus hung on the cross He cried because He knew His sacrifice would not be sufficient to save me from myself. To save someone that played the game, knew the game, and manipulated the game of this thing we call church. And now that I am tired of playing my entire existence in eternity is to be condemned to a fiery hell? That’s not the God I serve. There is sure to be people that will disagree and will accept nothing less than total allegiance to the system but I refuse to bow. It took me 36 years in the institution we call the modern-day church to find out I did not know the God I said I served. I only found Him walking down a lonely road to Golgotha.

      If we truly believe that the current structure of what was a construct of Constantine is the true church then I must ask the questions, is it without spot or wrinkle, or any such blemish. Any honest man would say no. That is because the true church of the Lord Jesus Christ is about individuals who have gone into a holy bed chamber and had intimate time with Yahweh, Jehovah, Elohim. It is made up of the portable tabernacles that have made Him their habitation and not a group of people that have put the name Jesus on the sign of their church. That sign is only an indication of where those people have stopped in the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Can these people be saved and a part of the true church, ABSOLUTELY? As individual churches or habitations of the Most High, definitely. If they have that true 3rd dimensional relationship, then most certainly so. But those people would know that going to a building and singing, hearing a preacher, and giving money does not define their salvation nor is it a testimony of their spirituality. Their hope, faith, trust, and lives are hidden with Christ in God.

      The mentality of it being all about my church or your church is where we have truly missed it. Even the word itself is an incrimination of that which the all worship. DENOMINATION=DIVIDED NATION We, that is man, has divided the nation of God. With each new church that arises after a split, or a new denomination that is added to the, now more than 2000 ones registered, we lay yet another fist to the face of Christ where He is marred to the point that no one can see who He truly is. The allegiance to denomination rather than obedience to Him is at the heart of the illusion. First, we divided over liturgy or the manner or order of worship, then by doctrine, and ultimately by religion. The Father must be truly confused or we would have the church that He promised. Instead look at what the church, that is more the leadership, has been doing in the shadows and it is Ezekiel Chapter 8 all over again.

      When Christ came all the shadows went away and He became our Church, our Tabernacle, our Temple, our Ark of the Covenant. We moved out of the shadow of what was a type and moved into the light. The construct of what it is to be is all in Him, by Him, and through Him. Not a manmade self-serving and self-appointed Apostolic ministry, and that’s not a reference to the religion. Anyone that will have the guts to read all the history of the “church” would conclude that is was no more than a mafia form of religion. This was much more to be desired than a humble and giving form of relationship with the Father and with their fellow man.
      I don’t hate but rather hate what is all has become and those that have been left in the wake of its narcissism and self-righteousness. And this is what we call the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. I weep because so many have been bewitched into believing that they will never have any more of God than the pastor will allow. The princes of the pulpits that have no understanding beyond the elementary principles of Christ are somehow thought of as seasoned men of the word because they wear the three piece suit just right, and the handkerchief is held with the grip of a master mason. All of these are styling cues that are paraded as their bona fides of spirituality. It seems that we all worship that which we do not understand.

      How did this whole thing begin? 1 man and 1 woman in a garden with 1 God. It’s that simple and yet that deep. We apparently have ulterior motives in the continuation of Constantine’s experiment that up to now has been one of man’s most successful achievements. But that is the problem it’s man’s not God’s. All we did was take an ear from here, and nose from there, an eye from that and then called it God and told the world to bow down and worship it. We created something to be sure, a graven image.

      The truth? Man wants the control over the masses. What they say, where they go, what they believe. More than this, it’s mammon, all with the sole purpose of lining their own pockets and the pockets of their denomination for the sole purpose or power, prestige, and the propagation of it’s own kind. Self-preservation is the first instinct of man. It’s is never about making disciples but rather winning converts.

      They all are no mystery to me, I used to be them.

    • Son on February 19, 2019 at 6:24 pm

      Hi Todd,
      It’s a tangled mess, for sure. My friend and brother Fessdo (where are you, ole buddy?) would say that The Blood of Jesus is all we need for salvation unto eternal life and I tend to agree. If going to church brings one peace, how can that be a bad thing? If you have God’s Peace that passeth understanding without going to church, that’s a good thing, right?
      Who’s going to heaven is up to Jesus, not us. He told us that if we believe in Him, we will be given eternal life. I believe Him.
      John 3:16

      Stay blessed, brother Todd.

      Dave

      • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 10:27 am

        Amen, we have been conditioned to attached the completed work of Christ to our ability to join a church and show up for every service. It is interesting to me that Jesus Himself never preached a gospel that was church attending centric. He continually spoke about the secrets of the Kingdom of God.

        Do not be mistaken I believe that it is both good and pleasant that we live together in unity but that does not imply that we having to meet at a specific location with a steeple and choir. Some of the most enlightening and glorious times that I have had in my communion with the Father has been in the middle of nowhere with a roaring campfire. Sometimes alone and sometimes with a few others. It is such a contrast to what I had been a part of for 36yrs. Though it may be a personal indictment about me I often tell people that I was a professional Christian. Now I am a nobody to that world but have found solace in the shadows of the almighty and would never go back.

        I am so humbled by His presence. At times, I think that the highest form of worship is utter and complete silence. It might sound crazy but the loudest sound in the world is silence before the Father. We are always too busy talking, singing, shouting, dancing, laughing, of which all are good at the right time, but being quiet and still as He rises from within you becomes a crescendo of sound unlike anything ever heard. That is because glory never comes down but rather it goes up. It was between the faces of the cherubim that the glory of God did go up as they cried Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord God Almighty.

        You are correct when you said, “Who’s going to heaven is up to Jesus, not us.” That is a powerful statement. It is diametrically opposed to what I call pseudo evangelism propagated by the system. They made us believe that making converts and saving souls were up to us but that is not the case. Winning souls simply means that we are to sow the seed of Christ, then another waters, but He gives the increase. What we are to be about doing is making disciples. But that that is not something that happens for 1 hour at 5pm on Sunday evenings. It is the pouring of your life in Christ into another person. Praying, weeping, laughing, lamenting, and celebrating as you share each other’s lives. Few people do that anymore but it’s understandable with Facebook and twitter getting the lion share of our lives these days.

        At the end of it all only those whom He knows will be welcomed to share in the Kingdom of God that has been prepared for them. It so wonderful to know that a person that He does not know can never be saved and a person He does know can never be lost. That is why He is the only Lord of the universe. Everything happens for His pleasure, all things are naked before Him, He is the beginning and the end at the same time. So, we can take our rest in knowing that no person will ever go to hell because we failed to witness to them. There is a much deeper revelation here but not for this time.

        Thank you for your words of life brother they have brought peace and comfort to me. I appreciate you indulging me. This truly is all that I have left in the world, to continue my search for the height, width, and breadth of Him and His love, and to speak with others of His goodness and mercy as well all cry Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty. Thank you for being a part of bringing glory to Him by your beautiful words.

        Kind regards,

        Todd

      • Son on February 20, 2019 at 12:03 pm

        Amen, brother Todd.
        Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. That was beautiful and blsssed, what you said and how you said it.

        God’s Peace to you, brother.

        Dave

  4. HoosierConservative on February 18, 2019 at 1:18 pm

    Count me in among the church quitters. I’m happily married, still in my thirties, white collar professional in a fairly affluent household. Faithfully attended church (and served) for many years. In two decades of being a Christian across many cities and states, I’ve had ONE church that actually came close to real fellowship. I don’t ask for much. I’m not demanding perfection. But why is it so difficult to find a church that’s even halfway decent???

    Churches are full of imperfect people. I get it. But good grief, isn’t there some kind of standard? Isn’t there a point when enough is enough? Do imperfect people have free reign to be appalling in their behavior? When I see things from the pastor and his wife that would never fly even in the most secular business office, what am I supposed to think? When the pastors/elders are no more mature or resourceful than I am, can’t I expect a little fruit?? Why should I attend every Sunday to hear kindergarden teaching from a baby Christian behind the pulpit who slapped together a sermon from internet blogs? How many times can I waste two hours of my life before I’m tired of it? This isn’t an isolated case of one or two churches — this is the NORM. We complain and complain about this, but it falls on deaf ears.

    I’ve actually been in churches where you never knew when you were stepping in a hornet’s next on Sunday morning. You find the pastort’s wife slamming dishes in the kitchen while we she prepares the coffee and donuts, telling anyone who will listen about her buzzard of a husband who is too picky on the worship team. For God’s sake, you’re a fifty year old woman, put on your big-girl pants and get a clue! No, you are not being “transparent” and “relatable” with your equally carnal church memebrs — you are being a reproach on the church. And this isn’t just one or two places, it’s everywhere!! Counting the number of donuts people take? Watching their children like a hawk when they go to a bathroom? How many times do we have to see this junk, and how many times do we have to complain, before pastors get the message??

    And then with the music. Listen, I like great music as much as the next person, but I’m sorry to say your 19 year old daughter isn’t going to nail the vocals of Resurrecting as well as Mack Brock. I don’t want to hear a bad cover band destroy great songs. Just ditch the worship team and play iTiunes from the stage already. It would certainly save the church a lot of time and money. Or maybe choose some less ambitious songs for their ability to induce real worship. I’m tired of leaving church with a headache.

    I’m tired of leaving church feeling like I learned nothing, felt nothing, achieved nothing, and impacted nothing. And leaving means leaving, not getting coffee or lunch with anyone afterward, because there’s always an excuse when I ask. I’m tired of driving away and telling my spouse it was yet another waste of time. I’m tired of examining myself to exhaustion, condemning myself that it’s all my fault because I’m simply too picky, wondering why I can’t seem to lower my standards for the sake of “being in fellowship.” I’m tired of crying myself to sleep on Sunday night because I’m no closer to fitting in at church.

    I have a group of Spirit-filled friends who join me in fellowship all throughout the week. We have Bible study, prayer meetings, counseling, everything the church is supposed to be. We financially assist those in need. We support ministries we believe in. We witness to people and pray for healings and stimulate each other to good works. I’m not bragging or boasting, just being honest. We’re doing all of this with no church building to call home.

    Why is it that my complaints are always dismissed? Why is it always my fault because I’m some sort of rebel without a cause? Why has a pastor never once called on me to explain why I disappeared? Why are there so many blogs like this that misrepresent us? I offically gave up on Sunday morning church about a year ago, and I can’t say I miss it. I want nothing more than to find a group of nice people who study the Bible together with no egos or agendas. Why is that too much to ask???

    • Son on February 18, 2019 at 1:59 pm

      Amen, Hoosier, you NAILED it! Welcome to this blog and hope you can contribute through His Spirit.

      Peace, Blessing and Grace to you from our Lord and Savior Jesus.

      Dave

      p.s. – Carey, do you have time to read any of the comments on this thread?

    • Stu on February 18, 2019 at 2:17 pm

      I wonder if the churches at Galatia or Corinth, at Laodicea or in Thyatira, or any of them were better than they are today. I wish friend I could disagree with you, but yet “Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of Olives.” He threw the money changers out, and stood his ground amongst the hypocrites and brood of vipers. When Jesus saw sin, he did not remain quiet, but called it out. Yet, still, he loved and died for his Church; he did not abandon it. In Thyatira, where Jezebel encouraged its members into sexual perversion, what did Jesus say? Did he tell his followers to leave? Revelation 2:24-25 (NIV)
      “Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): Only hold on to what you have until I come.”

      Jesus did not want them to quit, but to overcome. We have become grumblers and complainers. It only took three days after the Red Sea was parted that thousands resumed grumbling—except for two: Joshua and Caleb. They were the only ones to make it. Are we only joyful when circumstances please us? No, I am not any greater than you. But I am twice as old, and by virtue of the fact I had to wait to get there, I am that much more patient. You see things you do not see when you are half as old. You experience things I would not dare have dreamt when I was young, like you. Don’t die from regret. If you have been given wisdom from God, share it with those who are without it. If you do not sin, cast the first stone. God will exalt the humble. Jesus paid it all so that you could have what he deserved. “For these light and momentary troubles have achieved for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.”

      • Son on February 18, 2019 at 2:57 pm

        Stu, that all sounds great. Let me share with you my experience with the church I just quit. When I first began attending, about two months ago, I felt edified by the pastor and his sermons, comfortable with the welcoming, warm and friendly congregation and a sense of satisfaction when I left a service. However, over the last two weeks, the worship music has become objectionable, led by the off-the-wall, egotistical man appointed by the pastor to conduct it, the pastor has preached nothing except for the giving of “tithes” and “offerings”, absolutely nothing inspirational or educational, in fact, the pastor’s sermons have begun sounding to me like “Prosperity Gospel”, which I adamantly oppose (when I hear the names, “Tammy Faye Baker” and “Joel Osteen” I start looking for a barf bag – in my mind, they are the absolute farthest thing from Jesus and His Apostles that I could ever imagine), the so-called “leaders” in the church are resentful of anyone who may walk more closely with Jesus than they do or who would provide a spiritual insight that they did not think of and the attendance at services are rapidly and incrementally dropping off.
        I called a “brother” from the church to ask him a question. I had met him while attending a study group session that he led. He couldn’t be bothered to call me back. I sent him a text, asking him to please call me. No response, so it was not like he didn’t know I wanted to speak with him. That was the final straw. God made it pretty plain to me that He didn’t want me to attend that church anymore. All they really wanted was whatever money they could bully me out of with their “tithing” and “offerings. The saw me as a dollar sign and that’s it! Tithing isn’t even scriptural, not in the NT. So, where does the pastor come off trying to justify “tithing” as a command of God? That was his approach.
        Sheesh! Gimme aa bucket for that bs.
        And you wonder why I don’t buy your rationale, Stu?
        Don’t get me wrong, please. I love and worship Jesus and I do the best I can to please Him as much as He enables me (I don’t take credit for any good works – all authority, every victory is HIS) But I try to avoid stumbling blocks in my life and church has become just that: A STUMBLING BLOCK.
        Thank you, dear, blessed, holy Lord Jesus, for never leaving or forsaking me and for always walking right beside me as I and my brethren in the Grace of Your Spilled Blood patiently, eagerly await your return to make everything right.
        MARANATHA, Lord Jesus! Come soon, Lord!

        Peace to you, brother Stu.

        Dave

        • HoosierConservative on February 18, 2019 at 3:39 pm

          I remember one church where we attended weeknight Bible study led by the pastor. In the middle of a particular lesson, someone asked a question the pastor couldn’t answer. I humbly offered an answer. I saw the room light up (including the pastor) when they realized I was right. The pastor never spoke to me directly again. There was no follow-up to that conversation, not one person in the room asking me out for coffee afterward. Not that I care to be popular, but there was no curiosity to see what else I knew.

          In churches these days you are punished if you display knowledge or maturity above the leadership team. You are marked as a know-it-all. If you want to get along with people, you have to play dumb.

          • Son on February 18, 2019 at 5:00 pm

            And that doth not be bull dung, brother Hoosier!
            ; )



          • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 10:38 am

            Amen, you hit the mark! The prince in the pulpit saw a king and was embarrassed. I can bet after that you became a threat to him. To use a worldly metaphor, the emperor had no clothes not because you told everyone he was naked but you showed everyone he was by being clothed. Well done.

            The whole of the earth groans and travails as a woman in labor. Everyone that reads this blog please here this. The groans and travails of the earth are not because of sin, wickedness, evil, or any other such force or action, not even the devil is the cause. The reason for the earths groaning and travailing is that it is awaiting the manifestation of the sons of God, Romans 8:19 The sons that are to be birthed out in the latter days to follow the one and only Son of God and they are be the light in this world, the bridge builders of His kingdom, dare I say it, the Melchizedek Priesthood for the end times.

            Just consider it…



      • HoosierConservative on February 18, 2019 at 3:25 pm

        Thank you for the reply. Even when Christians disagree, we should be able to have a dialog!

        The church of Ephesus self-destructed due to ravenous wolves in leadership. If we’re going to reference NT churches, let’s be fair and consider their fates. None of the 7 churches in Revelation exist today.. Jesus overturned the tables in the temple — then He spoke eight woes over Jersusalem, called the Pharisees children of the devil, and sent His church to the Gentiles. Let’s not pretend that Paul told us good things were in store for the end-times church. The NT doesn’t say a few plucky Joshuas can turn things around.

        There are only so many times you can overturn the tables. You think pastors want to hear my wisdom? No, that’s called “being critical”and “trying to control the pastor.” Even after serving long-term in churches, I’ve never been asked to lead, teach, advise, or counsel. My chair-setting and floor-mopping skills are in high demand, but not my opinions. I’ve had churches do surveys on the skills and talents of members, but then never do anything with the results. Why bother asking me what I do for a living if you’ve no intention of engaging me? Why ask for my home address if you will literally never visit my house? Why bother asking for feedback if you don’t want to change? “Toxic” members who question these things are welcome to go bless a church down the road.

        So my choices are either to sit in the back reading my Bible while no one cares to engage me (after puzzlingly interrogating me on my background), or stay home in my pajamas and fellowship with real friends. That isn’t a very hard choice. Instead of browbeating us to undertake heroic Jericho efforts, perhaps, just perhaps, the shepherds over the sheep should do their job.

    • Son on February 18, 2019 at 3:29 pm

      AMEN, Hoosier!

    • Disciple for the Lord Jesus Christ on February 18, 2019 at 3:44 pm

      Hi. Hope all is well my God bless the work your doing for his kingdom, just to comment I’m a spirit filled, believer a missionary for the Lord Jesus Christ maybe this will bring you peace and encourage you, the Lord pulled me from the church he only puts me in the Church building is to sit and observe and then give messages to the pastor to let him know where the Church is in error. Other then that, the Lord told me NO CHURCH! We are the Church! God Bless YOU
      and stay strong in the Lord!🙏🙌

      • HoosierConservative on February 18, 2019 at 3:52 pm

        If you sit in the back of a church and keep your mouth shut for a while, it doesn’t too long to spot the errors.

    • Todd on February 19, 2019 at 5:02 pm

      HoosierConservative,

      There are more like you out there, Take some comfort in knowing that others also feel what you feel and see what you see. There is a remnant people that He the Lord has set aside for these latter times. This that have been hidden away in the house of God eating and drinking the substance of Christ. They are those that hunger and thirst for Him more than their daily bread. We have no Father but God. There are no men, no institution or denomination that can lay claim to us as being their sons. This is why you don’t fit in anymore. It is the reason that you leave that building feeling the way you do.

      There is a priesthood that is being but already has been built that will show forth the praises of Him who called us out of the dark into His marvelous light. This priesthood is the reflection of the Father and the Son and it will be the counter balance to evil in these last days.

      I believe that you are on the right path dear brother. Keep pressing, keep pushing, keep tapping into that 3rd dimension and when the time comes you will do the works of your Father.

      • HoosierConservative on February 19, 2019 at 6:23 pm

        Thank you Todd. I continually grow as I learn more about our Savior. He is truly our light in the darkness! Oh how desperately we need Him.

        • Son on February 19, 2019 at 6:28 pm

          Amen, brother. What would we do without Jesus? We’d be totally hopeless! Thank you, Jesus, for coming to save us and thank you, Father, for giving us your own begotten Son Jesus! Amen.

          Dave

        • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 3:32 pm

          As the song said, “without Him I would be nothing, without Him I’d surely fail, without Him I would be drifting, like a ship without a sail.”

          We have no life without Him because we are dead and our lives are hidden with Christ in God. So the only true way to know who you are is to know who He is because you find your true life and identity in Him. This is why Paul’s lamentation was to know Him, the power of His resurrection, and the one most forget about, the fellowship of His suffering.

          You are so dead on, we need Him more than ever. That being said the Father purposely chose to need us to complete himself. He emptied out different parts of His personality and nature and then put it in His sons, (i.e. this would include women or daughters.) So when the God part you have connects with the God part I have He is connecting Himself to Himself thus fulfilling the high priestly prayer of Christ in John Chapter 17, Father make them one even as we are one. So there are none outside the ONE. All those that the Father gave to Him He kept. So too He, the Lord Jesus Christ has kept each of us and has made us one with the Father.

          What a beautiful savior we have and what a glorious privilege it is to know Him and those that carry a part of Him inside their temple. These are the true riches of Christ, to love one another as He has loved us is greater than all of the prosperity of all the churches, denomination, religions, and ministries combined. The cost of Him giving that to us was in drops of blood and not “denominations” of mammon. Interesting that money has denominations as well. Just a thought.

          Kind regards,

          Todd

          • Son on February 20, 2019 at 5:12 pm

            Good stuff, Todd!



          • HoosierConservative on February 20, 2019 at 6:26 pm

            Amen!!



  5. stung!!! on February 18, 2019 at 11:12 am

    because satans not so secret society Nazis Within The Order have infiltrated it with their satanic slaves and dumb down Christians

    • HoosierConservative on February 18, 2019 at 1:35 pm

      It does indeed seem like the barbarians crashed the gate. Church is mostly a big party with a vaguely inspirational message to entertain the hordes of carnal prosperity seekers. Then the responsible Christians are left to pay the tab. No thanks.

      • Son on February 18, 2019 at 2:02 pm

        Agree. The church leaders want to own it. They need more “sheeples” to grow the pot.

  6. stung!!! on February 18, 2019 at 11:11 am

    Did anyone else hear the Fifth trumpet of God Almighty sound when oil wells were lit ablaze during “Operation Desert Storm”?
    During the Gulf War when all the oil wells were lit ablaze I was attacked by a demon on three separate occasions all at night. This is what happened. While I slept a demon flew through my window and attack me. The spirit inside me fought this demon briefly until I awoke. Then it made me take over. I leaped out of bed trying to defend myself. This demon was horrid and spun circles around me thrashing through my soul with its hands, then it left as fast as it came. The demon radiated from the pains associated with the abyss. He was like a coal pulled from the fire, with the pains of the abyss Rev 9, 3. This attack happened on three separate occasions as I have stated. all on separate nights during the time frame when the oil wells had been lit ablaze in the Middle East. The third time it attacked me however was different from the rest. As before the demon attacked me, but this time I had enough since to command it to leave in the name of Jesus Christ. What happened next is even more amazing. After commanding this demon to leave in the name of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit delivered me outside my bedroom into the hallway. The demon followed. We were brought into the presence of the Lord. The Demon stood to my left and grabbing my hand, it placed its tail on top of my left hand. It was the sting of the scorpion and it went like this. It sent waves of fire through my soul Rev 9, 10. The pain was so sever that I couldn’t scream. Unconditionally, I looked straight up and said “Father please help me”. The demon then left.
    This all happened after being seduced into trying transcendental meditation, which caused spiritual bondage to witchcraft / demonic forces. Maybe the spiritual bondage occurred after playing a Ouija board or Tarot cards as a young boy. I’m not quite sure. They appeared at that time just to be games, and were sold in the kids section at stores or at least the Ouija board was. I had a lot of spiritual warfare after participating in these so called “games”. What I am sure of is that prior to being attacked by this demon, I was forced to go through the Illuminati’s esoteric initiation performed through altered states of consciousness / transcendental meditation assisted with witchcraft / demonic forces. Why I say demonic forces is that I believe all witchcraft to be the powers of demons / the Devil. I was forced to go through said esoteric initiation through methods including witchcraft, demonology, and subversive acts of terrorism. The methods of witchcraft included mind control / manipulation, heart palpitations, witchcraft dreams causing sleep depravation, powerful visions, and many other forms. In said ceremony I was instructed to except the worship of one of their many “demonic gods”. They informed me that in excepting one of there gods I accepted them all. One of there gods was the Devil, another they named Jesus, but they appeared to have a demon for every occasion. They informed me through methods of telepathy , that in accepting the worship of one, I accepted them all. What better way to join all religions of the world together under one banner of 666 spiritually enslaving society?
    David Spengler of the United Nations says that all people must go through a esoteric initiation and worship Lucifer to enter the New Age of Enlightenment. Helen Blavatsky calls it a Christ like consciousness, universal mind set. Benjamin Cream states that after said initiation all its members will be able to hear ancient wisdom spoken telepathically at the same moment by ascended Masters. I knew nothing of this group at that time or there Luciferian agenda of a One World Government. Take a guess what method is used for this initiation? I bet you know now. Have you heard of the New Age Movement, or its affiliation with “Free” Masonry? Do you know what a unholy baptism is or the term Kundalini.
    To the best of my knowledge this is the method Satan’s Secret Society uses to distribute the “spiritual mark of the beast”, and cause spiritual captivity Revelation 13, 10. Have you received your spiritual stamp of acceptance? If so, did you take it on the forehead becoming a spiritual slave of evil, or on the right hand a servant of the Devil himself? Does this sound hard to believe? Here are a few scriptures giving in sight. Revelation 13, 10, If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity they will go . This is spiritual captivity to witchcraft / demonic forces. Naham 3, 4, who enslaved nations by her witchcraft. Revelation 18, 23, By your magic spell all nations were led astray. Hebrews 2:15 states by there fear of death they are held in bondage. Witchcraft / demonic powers are very real. Thank you Jesus for the Holy spirit and your Angels.
    There is a way out, but it has been difficult for me. Revelation 12, 11, Those who overcame, overcame by the blood of the lamb and the “word” of their testimony. They didn’t love their own lives so much as to shrink from death. Hebrews 2, 15, By their fear of death they are held in spiritual captivity / bondage. Satan’s “Secret” Society isn’t very secret anymore! It is like a giant octopus with many tentacles reaching far and wide.
    Here is the rest of the story. Three to four nights later the demon returned in the early am @ about 3am. He wasn’t alone, Satan / Apollyon and the demon’s twin brother was with him. They hovered in the air above the ground, before the olive tree in our back yard. I could see them as the spirit in me manifested them to me! Satan hovered in the middle while the demons were on either side of him. The demon on his left had been thrown into the lake of fire for what he did to me. He radiated like a coal pulled from the fire what seemed to be 15’x15′. He was lit up like a Christmas tree! Graciously yours baptized by fire the witness! Who will believe this testimony? God will be my witness! Located in California. Recommended information Fake truth Movement Exposed 1-12 on you tube. It has insight into who has received the spiritual stamp on there right hand.

    • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 19, 2019 at 1:03 pm

      Sorry, Nope nobody “heard” the “Fifth Trumpet” Of JUDGMENT Of God = it is still Yet Future, As God IS Not YET FINISHED
      With The “Current Age Of Amazing GRACE and MERCY, Until The Body Of CHRIST Is Taken Home To Heaven =

      THEN The JUDGMENT Of trumpets, bowls, and vials WILL Be Administered! Amen?

  7. Jeanne Bressler on February 16, 2019 at 12:44 am

    Our church sucks. Ego rules with the leaders as usual

    • Son on February 16, 2019 at 3:45 pm

      Turns out the pastor at the church we have been attending preaches “Prosperity Gospel.” Enrich “the church/pastor” at the expense of the sheeples/flock. Churches depend upon easily brainwashed sheeples to enrich them. If they build a huge church and few attend services, they become desperate and resort to bashing the few member of their congregation with “biblical requirements” of donating “tithes” and “offerings”, as though one can appease and please God through giving money. What a scam. God calls those who worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.
      John 4:23
      “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.”
      God is not seeking to deprive us of our livelihood, although He tells us not to covet money and material possessions, Amen. We contribute to God with our word and our testimony and also His prompting in our hearts. If God prompts us to help our brethren, with money, with comfort, with companionship, with gospel, we should obey His prompting. That is what I believe is Truth.
      Thanks, Fessdo, for tipping me off on the church scam. We are saved ONLY BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS. God bless you brother Fessdo, for emphasizing this fact to me. I believe that God has opened my eyes to great truth in this phase of my life here on Earth.
      An admonition to those who are susceptible to being victimized by “Prosperity Preachers”:
      Matthew 7:15
      “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.”
      If your preacher/pastor/priest told you that God wants you to jump off a cliff and leave your money to his church for you to be saved, would you jump to your death?
      God gave us common sense. Obey The Holy Spirit, not greedy, ravenous men who pose in sheep’s clothing for their own gain.
      Matthew 10:16
      “Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.”

      God’s Peace and Blessing to my true brethren.

      Dave

      • Son on February 16, 2019 at 3:56 pm

        Another thing.
        John 10:27
        “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”
        If, in your heart, you don’t recognize who is asking you to tithe, offer, donate your money as being the voice of our Lord Jesus, you are probably being scammed by mortal men. Jesus speaks to our hearts as our holy shepherd.
        And, never forget what our Lord told us regarding salvation and true faith, which is The Gift of God to us:
        Matthew 22:14
        “For many are called, but few are chosen.”
        The chosen few are saved only by The Blood of The Holy Lamb. Jesus Is The Lord! Amen.
        Thanks, brother Fessdo, for helping me with gaining this insight and awareness and thanks, Jesus, for my dear brother Fessdo.

        Dave

        Dave

        • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 17, 2019 at 2:17 pm

          Greetings, Grace And Peace In The Precious Name Of The LORD JESUS CHRIST.

          Discovered there is a “problem” at your “church” where you enjoy “fellowship” with other like-minded (SAVED By The Precious BLOOD Of God, According To The GRACE Of our ONLY SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST!) believers!?

          Now what do you do??:

          (1) the leaders are wrong, But STAY because you “ENJOY” fellowship with “other” members (not leaders)?
          a) And, KEEP “giving money,” because you love The LORD and do it For HIM, regardless of “how the leaders Misuse it?
          b) Stay, But STOP “giving money,” because you “enjoy fellowship,” And, Feel Guilty because you are now “disobedient” to the LORD you love?

          (2) STAY, because the leaders Are Wrong, BUT Can Be Corrected “From The Inside” + a) or b) above?

          (3) Question the leaders with your “concern,” and find out IF the have a BIBLICAL “solution” to the “problem!”
          a) IF “Solved” satisfactorily (2 Timothy 2:15!), then STAY
          b) IF UNsatisfactorily (UNclean!), THEN, loving your LORD, obey God Who Commands!:

          “Wherefore Come Out from among them, and be ye Separate, Saith The LORD, And touch not the unclean thing; and I Will Receive you, And Will Be A Father Unto you, and ye Shall Be MY sons and daughters, Saith The LORD Almighty!” (2 Corinthians 6 : 17!)?

          God Bless ALL Very RICHLY In HIS Preserved, Pure And HOLY Word (KJB!)

          brother Chris
          PS. IF you wish to hear my own “testimony” of LEAVING (with No regrets!) 29 years ago, let me know…

          • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 17, 2019 at 2:22 pm

            oops “imperfect” ERROR = IF THEY (leaders!) have a BIBLICAL “solution!”

            sorry! my bad 🙁

            bro Chris



          • Son on February 17, 2019 at 2:30 pm

            bro Chris, thanks for your considered and blessed advice regarding the church I have rejected. Certain events transpired that I interpreted, through His Charity and Grace unto me, to convict me that it was NOT God’s Will for me to attend that church anymore. This morning, I realized that I could never be friends with the pastor or church leaders because they see themselves as being better than I am, closer to God and more favored by God than I am, more knowledgeable and accomplished in their service to God than I am. How can one be friends with someone who thinks they are superior to you? You can’t. This is what God has pointed out to me.
            Of course, I would appreciate anything you would share with me about your experiences with church, His guidance to you, etc. I have much to learn.

            Peace, Grace and Blessing to you from His humble, unworthy, grateful servant,

            Dave



          • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 17, 2019 at 9:35 pm

            Grace And Peace, Dearest Brother (By HIS BLOOD!) Dave/Sister Jeanne. Appreciate your love for the LORD, this wonderful fellowship sharing with you, And your Great Desire to “Find Out,” In HIS Good Time! What God Has For you, Concerning what you are “clueless” about. Praying Hopefully, that what I can “help” with, will be Encouraging to ya’ll!

            Did you know? Praise God, we have ALL “Been Made ‘worthy’!”
            According To HIS Awesome SCRIPTURES! Amen?:

            “Giving thanks unto The Father, Which Hath Made us meet [ WORTHY! ] to
            be partakers of the inheritance of the saints In Light: Who Hath
            Delivered us From the power of darkness, and Hath Translated us Into The
            Kingdom Of HIS Dear SON: In WHOM we Have Redemption Through HIS BLOOD, Even The FORGIVENESS of sins!” Amen, And AMEN!

            (I would Also love {A Good story!} to hear/”listen” to your “personal
            testimony” of God’s GRACE/Salvation Upon Dave/Jeanne! IF you “wish!”),
            Now, a little about me:

            before LEAVING “churcheS” = grew up Roman catholic, Never receiving
            “spiritual help,” only knowing “religiously About” God, The Father, And
            HIS SON, JESUS, And The Holy Spirit, slowly tapered off going, until age
            27:

            THEN, Praise the LORD for my NEW “spiritual” BIRTH day! Amen?:
            I was alone at home (wife/kids “out” somewhere), reading the “filthy
            gossip” magazine, National Enquirer (Does God “Use the wicked” To Do HIS
            Will? you Betcha! remember “Pharaoh in Egypt”?):

            There was a FULL-PAGE Ad offering booklets on Heaven, Hell, And Home
            Life! And they were FREE, just call a 1-800 number! I was Always an avid
            “reader,” so i said, “self, why not? i can check these out, too, for FREE!” So, i
            called, and the kind lady took my order, AND then asked me this
            “shocking” question!:

            IF you DIED TONIGHT, are you Absolutely SURE you would go to heaven?

            Of course, the truthful answer was “No!” I “admitted I WAS a SINNER!” She shared JESUS CHRIST, HIS Death, BLOOD, And Resurrection for Forgiveness of my sin, And ETERNAL Life With HIM! Then, because I did NOT “know” what to pray, she “helped” me, right on the phone! IMMEDIATELY I “knew” in my heart and soul, “something WAS Different!”##

            (“Critics/liars COMPLAIN = NO ONE can “pray” and be saved, But I “know” of at LEAST TWO who have = the “humble” publican in Luke 18:13! and me! he was “Saved” AFTER “praying God, Be Merciful To me, a sinner,” By God’s Own Words: “went down to his house JUSTIFIED!” AND i “Was JUSTIFIED By God” Before “hanging up the phone!!!” {Of course, i “prayed” what I Already “believed” IN “my heart!” (Romans 10:10-11! NO “shame!”} Amen, and AMEN!!

            Praise HIM For Ever And EVER! Now, “churcheS” i went to as a NEW-Born
            “babe In CHRIST!”

            While on vacation, “sharing” good news, a “relative-out-Law” suggested
            for me to talk to her “minister” – this was church of christ, they
            showed me a few of “their verses,” and i said ok, i “should obey and be
            water baptized, As a “babe,” not “knowing” at THAT TIME it was for “regeneration immersion,” they “tried” to “push” me to do it IMMEDIATELY, but i said nah, Next Sunday is fine 🙂 Got “dunked,” after my “baby” declaration of “being glad i was on the ‘winning’ side.” (LITTLE did I “know” what i would “know LATER!” But, vacation was over, and, Never went back!

            Later, back home, attended a “reformed” group, and left due to
            NON-Scriptural (they Even ADMITTED this, saying it was THEIR “tradition” of) “infant sprinkling.” {And all the while, as a “Very hungry baby,” i devoured ALL the “sermonized” literature I received, listened to the radio, And watched “religious” TV! = Did “learn” a LOT! [But, Most of it was “Confusing!”] }

            Next, (“Growing In GRACE!) in IFB (to be fair, they do preach The Gospel Of GRACE!), which, they teach, one can “join membership” by NON-regeneration “obedience of immersion in water,” (their “denominational tradition”?), And After going THREE times a week, and driving a bus for kids, singing in the choir, etc. etc, after 8 years, “left” because of the following TWO “studies”:

            (1) supposed “Bible study” By mail, with of all people, AGAIN, the church
            of Christ, the mean and angry “teacher,” calling me names and stuff,
            But he did “ask” ONE thought-for-food provoking/pointed question:
            “How come YOU BAPTISTS teach TWO baptismS when Paul says “There is Only ONE!” (Ephesians 4:5!). had to STOP AND THINK about that one…

            (2a) Found some “Bible? study” material, while serving/helping the last IFB church i attended – i was helping the “associate” pastor with Saturday night bulletins for the “next day.” I decided to “browse” the pastor’s library and chose THREE books that seemed like they “Might Be worthwhile to READ/study/be fed?” Anyways, when we showed up for Sunday worship, i “fessed up” what i had “borrowed,” and the pastor informed me that he “did Not LOAN out his books!” (later found out “some were ‘Poison!'”) WHEW!

            (2b) Oh, ok, NOW i know (don’t “borrow poison,”) but I was already reading the “Healthy medicinal” study “Baptism And The BIBLE! (CR Stam),” about “baptism being an “Identification!'” I had to “know” MORE, so now WHAT? I loved The LORD, and asked HIM to help me “understand” this NEW Information I had NEVER heard before! So, I skipped Sunday night, skipped Again Wednesday night, and FINISHED reading/making NOTES Of ALL The Scriptures About This “IDENTIFICATION!” Next Sunday, went to “church” returning his “precious poisonous” {p.p. :)} books to the pastor.

            (2c) Now what? I prayed for a couple of weeks, reviewing/thinking/considering These Scriptures That I had Never Considered Before, In “God’s Context,” About ONE “Spiritual Baptism!” So, now with a question, I went to see the pastor. He said “he appreciated” that I came to him with my question
            about: Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4; 1
            Corinthians 12:13!:

            “Are ALL Of These about God’s ONE Baptism For us, Today, Under GRACE, In A “Spiritual Context”? His “answer” was “YES, they Are “Spiritual,”…

            …BUT, (then he “Added”): “we have to ‘remember water’ baptism.” (we do?)
            So, then i went home, still wondering/contemplating/mulling ALL this
            “experience” over in my mind, asking the LORD’s “HELP!” Please…

            (2d) So, a couple of more weeks go by, and I finally “made a simple ‘math’ decision.” (i believe i am “fairly good at math, And “common sense!” Amen?) How is TWO “baptismS,” water baptism PLUS Holy Spirit Baptism EQUAL TO: “ONE Baptism!” So, I went on With my “journey” With God And HIS Word Above “ALL Else!” And, “left” the IFB “church.” {Embarking into a NEW “Encouraging journey” With 2 Timothy 2:15! “Changing” ALL my “Confusion/seeming Contradictions” Into HIS Wonderful “Light!!”}
            {is this a “MINOR” Issue?}…

            (Please “be advised” the “baptist” people {“good fellowship!”} DID love us Very Much, bringing food and helping us when {my second} wife was having an hysterectomy and our “BEAUTIFUL-Angel-of-a-blind” daughter was taken “Cesarean!” Thank God! – That was 29 years ago!):

            …continuing With “leaving church” About “God’s MAJOR Doctrine!”:
            A couple of weeks later, the pastor and a couple of others came by, “concerned” we were not “attending” any more. I explained my “decision,” And (here comes “poison”) he explains: “Well, in OUR “fellowship group {baptist!},” we DO NOT “AGREE” with the man whose “book” you studied!
            After “considering his statement” I thought “that might not be a very good {foolish?} STATEMENT to make,” because I Already “knew” That, “According To The Pure, Preserved, And HOLY Scriptures (KJB!):”

            “JESUS Came To HIS OWN (With Truth!), And they RECEIVED HIM NOT!” (John 1:11!) And we BOTH know “what THEY DID To HIM! Right bro/sis Dave/Jeanne?

            ## “What” was “Different”? After “studying” The Scriptures (I was “taught” From The Beginning, to STAY With, Above ALL Else!), I Found out I HAD:

            “…The PEACE Of God, Which Passeth all understanding, Shall Keep your hearts and minds Through CHRIST JESUS!” (Philippians 4:7!)
            {And, THAT “PEACE” has been ONE “Constant!” among Many “changes” in my life for 40 Years!} Praise HIM For Ever And EVER!!!

            {BLOOD!} Brother/Sister: Thanks So Much For Being Marvelous “listeners!”
            Dave/Jeanne, May God RICHLY Bless you as you “embark” on your Wonderful Journey With HIM!

            bro Chris



          • Son on February 18, 2019 at 1:25 pm

            Grace, Peace and Blessing from our Lord and Savior Jesus unto you, bro Chris. Thank you for sharing your testimony with Jeanne and me. Here is one of my favorite scriptures:
            1 Corinthians 8:2
            “And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.”
            I am thankful for The Charity, Mercy and Grace our Lord Jesus showed unto me in filling me with His Holy Spirit and thereby saving my soul for eternity. I realize I had nothing to do with my salvation but to ask Him earnestly, from the depths of my heart and soul, to please help me believe He is the Lord and He did that. Jesus did it all for me and you and Jeanne and everyone who can say, “Jesus Is The Lord”.
            Jesus and only Jesus completed the work necessary for our salvation unto eternal life in His Kingdom. Take anyone you like for an example, but if they are mortal men, such as we are, they don’t have
            “all the answers”. Many church leaders pose as if they know everything and are never wrong. These church leaders feel they need to own it, have complete authority and control over their “flock”. So, back to the subject of this blog, “Why people are turning away from church”, that is my reason. If Jesus reveals a truth to me, in His Holy Spirit, I listen and believe what He tells me. When mortal men tell me I’m wrong and Jesus has told me what they think is “wrong”, I reject the counsel of those mortal men, not the truth that Jesus has given to me. I admit that, in the grand scheme of life on earth and afterwards, I know nothing except that Jesus Is The Lord. As far as I’m concerned, everything else is strictly speculation on our part. As His Spirit prompts me, I share what He tells me with others, some believers in Him, some not. I no longer try to beat a non-believer over the head with a bible, for “A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still”, as my daddy used to say. I am just waiting on Jesus.
            I don’t need stumbling blocks in my life. That is why I am leaving church.

            Stay blessed, bro Chris. Thanks for your fellowship. Please feel free to share fellowship anytime, my brother.!

            Dave



          • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 11:19 am

            Very well put. Thank God we have people like you that sees the problem and informs others. Thank you for being a voice in the wilderness.



  8. Obscra on February 15, 2019 at 8:14 am

    Jesus says you can judge a tree by the fruit it bears. What fruit has the Christian church been producing? Bigotry? Hate? Do they use their funds to help those in need? Do you remember Jesus’s advice to the rich man? He told him that to follow him he must sell all of his wealth and donate that money to the poor. The problem is many churches are not lead by the word of God, but by malignant narcissists who do not even believe.

  9. Krisu on February 14, 2019 at 4:24 am

    “I completely understand why a growing number of people are bailing on church.”

    No, you don’t understand. As witnessed by many comments.

    The Heavenly Church by Christ is in Heaven. It may have nothing to do with these social gatherings called churches.

    The mundane churches are made by men, for men, not by God or for God.

    The abuse that’s been going on in churches is not from God, but from Satan. So every church that keeps on abusing its members is doing the will of Satan. That “men are imperfect” is no excuse.

    • Jeanne Bressler on February 14, 2019 at 7:41 pm

      Wow, that’s a tough subject, Krisu. “The Church” conducted The Spanish Inquisition and also The Crusades, similar to the Jihad campaign conducted by Islam. Yes, that subject needs examination, for sure.
      Jeanne

      • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 17, 2019 at 2:32 pm

        Dear Jeanne. Disagree, The “CHURCH, The Body Of CHRIST, Whose “members” Have Been Washed In The Precious BLOOD Of The LORD JESUS CHRIST,’ did no such Atrocity. The ROMAN “church,”
        believing they were serving God, DID DO SO, BUT JESUS Said:

        “Yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service!
        And these things will they do unto you, because they have NOT KNOWN THE FATHER, NOR ME!”
        (John 16;2-3 KJB!)

        Be well!

        bro Chris

      • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 11:26 am

        Let us go to the depths and ask this question. Is God the Father a Christian?

        • Son on February 20, 2019 at 12:19 pm

          Unfortunately, my wife Jeanne is neither qualified nor interested in pursuing her involvement on this thread. I tried to recruit my friend and brother Fessdo to engage her to participate, but that did not bear any fruit.
          Speaking for myself, Todd, what a strange question you have asked! God The Father raised Christ from the dead.
          Can you give God The Father a moniker such as “Christian”? With my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, I would ask you (hope you can laugh at this), was Haile Selassie a Rastafarian?

          Peace to you, bro

          Dave

          • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 11:57 pm

            That did bring a smile to my face. The point of the question was to raise the subject of how we categorize and label people, and yes even God. We see this in politics which unfortunately is a mirror image of the church system. Religion and politics brothers in arms from the beginning of both institutions.

            This is my real point on this. I believe that everything comes down to identity. To know Him, His identity. To know self, identity. To discern both good and evil, indentity. It’s
            inescapeable. It is a question that we should all ask of ourselves. Who are you? What label are you willling to accept as being an identifier as to just who you are? What indoctrinated glasses skew your view of who He really is? That is my greatest fear. He came to His own and His own received Him not. The guys that knew the Hebrew and study continually about the coming Messiah did not know that He was walking in their modest. Why, because of your tradition you made Christ who is THE WORD of God of no effect. Most of us on this blog have come from a religious background and we carry that indoctrination inside of us. Being able to die to that is a tough thing to do. So the question while rehrorical is meant to provoke these thoughts about how we define people and God by our particular language of thought when evaluating indentities.

            Sorry if there are spelling errors I any of my repsonsss but it is late and I am too tired to use spell check. Thank God you all will forgive my as the Father would do.

            Ciao



          • Son on February 21, 2019 at 1:33 am

            The world knew Him not, but what can be more perfectly descriptive of our Lord and Savior Jesus than the prophecy of Isaiah?
            ISAIAH 53
            “Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
            “For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.”

            All blessing, honor, glory and power to our precious Lord and Savior Jesus!

            God bless you, brother Todd.

            Dave



  10. Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 12, 2019 at 8:54 pm

    Grace And Peace, Dave. Concerning “Now, more than ever, the world needs Christian working together humbly under Christ to lead people into a growing relationship with him, in whatever innovate and fresh forms that takes. The church is not dead.” Do we “agree”?:

    The Church, as a whole, is spiritually weak/Severely Divided. I highly “doubt” that this will be soon “Corrected” with “innovative and fresh forms.” How about “Old-fashioned” obedience
    to God’s HOLY Word, Especially “recognizing” the “UNIQUE” apostleship of Paul (whom
    God “CHOSE” to be the “administrator” of GRACE! { similar to Moses, prophets, And HIS Twelve “chosen” to “administer” The LAW? } Amen?

    Question about what, imho, is THE MAIN “Divider” of “denominations!:

    Does God REQUIRE “water” baptism, Today, Under GRACE? (this is “my reason” for “leaving” ALL of the “MainSTREAM” watered-down gospel denominations. Was this Valid?)

    Just find the “church of you choice,” like it, ask to “join in membership,” and what happens?:
    They ask you: Have you been {water} baptized (“according to our particular “”tradition”””)?
    (“problem”? Is it “SINGLE” immersion in the “Name of JESUS,” or Is it TRIPLE immersion in the “Name of the Father, Son, And Holy Ghost”? does “Anybody SEE” Any “Problem”???)

    Now, IF you “haven’t” done it “right (THEIR way!), let’s have a DO OVER! Is That Scriptural???

    How about this: Is Not our “fellowship with ONE Another” BASED On our “Mutual faith!* In our LORD And Saviour, JESUS CHRIST? Rather than UNScriptural “traditions”???

    Is God’s “Answer” then, “NO!” water is NOT required? As, According To SCRIPTURE, There Is Only ONE Baptism, Under GRACE! (Ephesians 4 : 5; Colossians 2 : 12; Galatians 3 : 27; Romans 6 : 3-4; 1 Corinthians 12 : 13!)

    Or, maybe i am just an “heretic”?

    Just askin’…

    • Son on February 12, 2019 at 11:58 pm

      bro Chris,
      I don’t have any answers to your questions. I just know that somehow, someway, Jesus keeps me attached to His Holy Spirit, and I am completely thankful and humble concerning that. He keeps me hanging on, with all of the confusion and noise that surrounds our faith, His Gift to us.
      Hebrews 13:5
      ” Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.”
      I pray that you and all of my brethren in Him will stay connected, through His Grace and Mercy toward us.
      The enemy is trying hard to separate us from one another and only God can give us the inspiration and strength to resist and stay strong in our faith and hope.
      I don’t have all the answers, bro. Only God has the answers and I wait on Him to reveal them to me.
      In the meantime, I pray every night, “Maranatha, dear Lord Jesus. Come back soon, Lord, tonight if it might be your Will. Rapture us into the air and bring us to your kingdom of Heaven to spend all of eternity worshipping, serving, obeying, blessing and glorifying you and our Holy Father and to live in peace, harmony, bliss and ecstasy with the holy angels and our beloved brethren in your chosen flock.”
      Believe on Jesus, bro and be saved upon the faith He gives you. Observe not the customs of men, but serve God through His Holy Word, Jesus. That’s really about all I can tell you. I am saves because Jesus told me and tells me that I am. I am as clueless as you, other than The Grace of Jesus.

      Peace to you, bro. Feel free to share fellowship and communion with me anytime. There are other blessed brethren on this forum, such as Fessdo, Stu and Abraham, if you seek fellowship and, perhaps, guidance. I’m sure they would respond to your reaching out to them.

      In the spirit of our only Lord, Savior and blessed God Jesus.

      Dave

      • Son on February 13, 2019 at 11:27 am

        Titus 3:5 “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;”
        Romans 10:9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
        Romans 9:15
        “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
        What do YOU believe? Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior? Can you say, “Jesus Is The Lord”?
        1 Corinthians 12:3
        “Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”
        You won’t be saved by the customs of men. Only God can save you, and that’s only if He chooses to do so. Your only guarantee is the blood and the promise of Jesus.

        Dave

      • Jeanne Bressler on February 14, 2019 at 7:37 pm

        Fessdo, I want you to give me your guidance as you do for my husband, “Son”, also known to you as Dave. My husband had spoken very highly of you as an agent of Jesus.
        Thank you for considering me in your spiritual insights.
        Jeanne

        • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 15, 2019 at 11:31 am

          Grace And Peace, my dearest brother Dave. Thank you for your warm welcome, kind, and “truthful” response. (“I don’t have answers to your questions.”) Seems as if some on this thread are having a Great Fellowship with each other! That is Very Encouraging Indeed, as I believe That Is What CHRIST, The ONE HEAD Of HIS Heavenly Church, Desires for ALL of HIS “members!” (still on this earth). Amen?

          For “Being CONNECTED To God,” And to “each other,” Hebrews 13:5 Is Really Good – And, I Also always go by These Wonderful Scriptures!:

          (1) We (ALL “Saved” members) Were “Identified With” (Baptized Into) The Heavenly Body Of CHRIST, Upon God Giving us our New Birth, By HIS Amazing GRACE! (Ephesians 2:8-9, 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13!) Amen?

          (2) That ONE (Holy) Spirit That “ID’d” us (“BY” ONE Baptism {above}), Also Took Up Residence in us ALL! (1 Corinthians 3 : 16, 6 : 19) Thus, Does The Holy Spirit “keep us Connected” To CHRIST? Amen, bro?

          (3) “God Is Faithful, by WHOM ye Were Called Unto The Fellowship Of HIS SON, JESUS CHRIST our LORD!” (1 Corinthians 1 : 9!)

          Brother Dave, appreciate you, and Also looking forward to “joining” in fellowship with you And the other brothers Fessdo, Stu, and Abraham. “Possibly” our “discussions” in Scriptures Will Hopefully Help us ALL to “see” where we “Disagree” and Then, Help us to Obey God In This:

          “Now I beseech you, brethren, By The Name of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment!” (1 Corinthians 1 : 10 cp Ephesians 4:3-6!)

          bro Chris

          PS. I see sister Jeanne, your wife, has Also “joined in this fellowship” seeking guidance. Now this is Even More VERY Encouraging. If I may “suggest,” IF my “name” is “highlighted” above this “reply” you can Both go to my “youtube Discussion” page where I have a “few BIBLE studies.” Let me know “what you think.”

        • Son on February 15, 2019 at 2:23 pm

          bro Chris, I tried to access your presentation on YouTube, but all I could find was “Grace Ambassadors”. Is that you?

          Dave

        • fessdo on February 15, 2019 at 7:02 pm

          Jeanne,
          Please understand my answer here,
          1 Peter 3:4-6 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
          In the same spirit you married women should adapt yourselves to your husbands, so that even if they do not obey the Word of God they may be won to God without any word being spoken, simply by seeing the pure and reverent behaviour of you, their wives. Your beauty should not be dependent on an elaborate coiffure, or on the wearing of jewellery or fine clothes, but on the inner personality—the unfading loveliness of a calm and gentle spirit, a thing very precious in the eyes of God. This was the secret of the beauty of the holy women of ancient times who trusted in God and were submissive to their husbands. Sara, you will remember, obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. And you have become, as it were, her true descendants today as long as you too live good lives and do not give way to hysterical fears.

          Dave is really your lord and a greater teacher than me, for I’m really just a sinful country boy and blue collar worker that just loves Jesus a whole bunch.
          Fessdo

          • Son on February 16, 2019 at 12:14 am

            Amen, brother Fessdo.
            You are such a learned, blessed teacher!
            I thank God for your brotherhood and fellowship!

            Your bro in Jesus.

            Dave



          • Jeanne Bressler on February 16, 2019 at 12:34 am

            Hey man? I am a girl and my guy likes me to dress in clothing other than blue jeans. God made me to make Dave appreciate the beauty of color and good taste. So I am a ballerina to my dear Dave!

            I hate to wear pants!

            Jeanne



          • Son on February 21, 2019 at 11:56 am

            Thanks, brother Todd, for taking time to share your thoughts on the nature/essence of Jesus and our relationship with Him. It’s uncanny how much you sound like my ole pal Fessdo! ; )
            I’m curious about your take on this subject. I don’t think people who are “gay” can help themselves. I believe it is a pre-programming of their genes/dna that causes them to be attracted to the same sex. I also believe that same mechanism applies to serial killers. A serial killer feels some compulsion to do what they do because of their chromosomal makeup. What do you think Jesus would say about how those people can control these basic, programmed-by-their-dna compulsions?

            I am heterosexual, so don’t worry about that. I am referring specifically to something I read and thought about recently.
            ROMANS 1:27
            ““And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

            Does a homosexual person have any right to enter The Kingdom of God?

            TIA for your take on this.

            Dave



      • Todd on February 21, 2019 at 10:48 am

        Here is your answer.

        16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: 17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ’s. 18 Let no man rob you of your prize [a]by a voluntary humility and [b]worshipping of the angels, [c]dwelling in the things which he hath [d]seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast the Head, from whom all the body, being supplied and knit together through the joints and bands, increaseth with the increase of God.

        20 If ye died with Christ from the [e]rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, do ye subject yourselves to ordinances, 21 Handle not, nor taste, nor touch 22 (all which things are to perish with the using), after the precepts and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will-worship, and humility, and severity to the body; but are not of any [f]value against the indulgence of the flesh.

        People have struggled with these types of issue for a long time. Me, I’m just a backward country boy from Texas, but when I started on this path 18 years ago after being in the system, and I mean in the system for 36 years, these types of conflicts faded away. A new creation began in Him. I suddenly realized that freedom was not my ability to do whatever I wanted but rather the absolute joy in knowing that Christ would to do all things through me. If we were to just allow Him to be who He is in all that we do, it would set us free from these carnal minds and fleshly bodies.

        I do not give a you know what about the impediments that people put upon us that are working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Who are they to trick us into going back to the rules and ordinances of men and not those of God? Once again, I humbly tell you that I am no one special but I do know that everything in our lives as it pertains to salvation and holiness can be summed up in these two things, Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. The second is like unto it, you love your neighbor as yourself. In these two things are all the law and the prophets fulfilled. The first is toward heaven the second is the witness on the earth. Anything more than that becomes a lesson in futility because everyone can argue concerning rituals and ceremonies but no one can argue with LOVE i.e. CHRIST because that is who He is. He is the eternal and ultimate manifestation of love. If you traveled 1000 light years into space you will find a footprint of where He has already been which means love has already been there. Keep going on and on and on no matter how far no matter what galaxy it is you will find that His love has already been there. It is love that keeps the universe in order. It is love that causes the sun to rise. It is love that sent an innocent lamb to a lonely hill called Golgotha to bleed out His life so that He could expressed His love to you.

        This is how I read 1 Corinthians 13:13

        1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have Christ, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have Christ, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have Christ, it profits me nothing.

        4 Christ is patient, Christ is kind and is not jealous; Christ does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

        8 Christ never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is Christ.

        I hope that you see it. Christ is LOVE and Love is CHRIST. When I read this no it takes on a whole new meaning for me. Notice when we are in Him and only Him can we becomes love because that is who He is. Face to face or Love to Love is the greatest of all commandments and those two are the fulfillment of all. People see love as an emotion or some abstract idea of good. NO! Christ is literally the manifested of love and the very its essence of its existence.

        So, if you’re a heretic so am I. That may surely be man’s interpretation of us. But God! Oh yes, we are in a love relationship with Him and that is what drives them nuts because they cannot control us with their church, denomination, religion, rituals, ceremonies, or their infantile understanding and interpretations of scripture.

        We might well be nuts but we are screwed to the right bolt. So rejoice in the freedom that Christ has given to you but make certain that your dwelling place is in Him else you lose that freedom. Anyone or anything that puts any belief or law above CHRIST/LOVE is to be discarded and put on Paul’s dung heap. So take out the trash my brother and live in Him.

        Todd

    • fessdo on February 13, 2019 at 11:04 am

      Chris,
      Answer my questions and I’ll answer yours.
      If a person has no baptism is he doomed to hell?
      If a person has one baptism is he doomed to hell?
      If a person has two baptism is he doomed to hell?
      If a person has three baptism is he doomed to hell?

      • Son on February 13, 2019 at 11:05 pm

        My dear, beloved brother Fessdo,
        You have convinced me. We are saved by only one thing: the blood of Jesus.
        He did it all for us.
        Blessing, honor, glory and power to our Lord Jesus.
        JESUS IS THE LORD.

        Thank you, dear brother Fessdo for your faith and exhortation in HIM. He has completed our salvation, PRAISE JESUS!

        Dave

        • fessdo on February 13, 2019 at 11:21 pm

          Dave,
          “He (Jesus) has completed our salvation”,,,
          You are so right Dave and knowing that truth means no one will ever be able to take that away from you ever.
          John 8:36 King James Version (KJV)
          If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

          Praise God,
          Fessdo

          • Son on February 14, 2019 at 11:11 am

            Amen, brother Fessdo!

            Dave



        • Todd on February 21, 2019 at 12:08 pm

          Dave, I will be more than happy to engage you in this conversation. Your message with regards to the question about homosexuals did not leave me a rely to click on so I am responding to this post in order to talk with you about this.

          As you well know we are all on different stations on the path and I do not want to offend someone who is a young one in the things of God. I do not want to cause anyone, but especially someone that is a babe in Christ to fall because of something that I said. These types of subjects are to be handle with care and the fear of the Lord. Now automatically people will think I am opposed to the gay lifestyle but let me say that my apprehension to broach this subject is not about offending just gay people but also those that are young in the Lord and believe that being gay is not okay. No matter which side of the fence you are on I do not want to offend either.

          For a further discussion on this subject please contact me at my personal email, zion3d@hotmail.com

          Kind regards as always,

          Todd

      • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 15, 2019 at 11:19 am

        Grace And Peace, my Dear Brother Fessdo. “Answer my questions and I’ll answer yours.” OK, fair enough:

        “If a person has NO baptism is he doomed to hell?” According To Holy Scriptures, Yes!

        “If a person has ONE baptism is he doomed to hell?” Depends, According To Holy Scriptures, “Could” be Yes OR No!

        “If a person has two baptismS is he doomed to hell?” Depends, According To Holy Scriptures, “Could” be Yes OR No!

        “If a person has three baptismS is he doomed to hell?” Depends, According To Holy Scriptures, “Could” be Yes OR No!

        Fessdo, be blessed – looking forward to Great Scriptural “discussion” with you!

        bro Chris

        MISSION: To Exalt The LORD JESUS CHRIST by proclaiming ALL The Counsel Of God, to “make ALL see What Is The Fellowship Of The Mystery!” (Ephesians 3 : 9!) Amen?

        • Son on February 15, 2019 at 1:48 pm

          bro Chris, I found the following commentary regarding baptism and I thought it might be of interest to you in shedding light on the subject.

          Do I have to be baptized to go to heaven – The Criminal
          The other story is found in the account of Jesus on the cross and it is the story of one of the malefactors who hung beside Jesus. One of the malefactors railed against Jesus but the other had a change of heart. “But the other criminal rebuked him. ‘Don’t you fear God,’ he said, ‘since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.’ Then he said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’ Jesus answered him, ‘I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise’” (Luke 23:40-43). Notice that Jesus does not say you will be with me after you are baptized. Rather there was affirmation of the thought “absent in the body and present with the LORD” (2 Corinthians 5:8).
          Do I have to be baptized to go to heaven – The Conclusion
          Baptism is a rite of identification and not salvation and therefore is not a requirement for entrance into heaven. What then is the requirement for entrance into heaven? The story of the malefactor will give us the answer. This man recognized that he was where he was because of his own actions and he repents and asks for grace. The grace of the cross is what instantly transformed a reviling sinner into one with the attitude of confession and saving faith. That faith is what saves and gives the sinner entrance into eternal life through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ three days later.

          The repentant thief began to see that his own punishment was just, he also saw the sinless character of Christ and he recognized that only Christ was able to save him. The thief was saved because of his trust in God’s grace through Christ. In like manner, the sinner today must recognize that God’s judgment of us is just and that we cannot save ourselves and we then choose to receive the gift of grace that God has made possible through the LORD Jesus Christ and that is the only requirement for salvation and for entrance into eternal life in heaven. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9). If baptism were necessary it would be “works” and we cannot add our works to His grace.

          With His Love, bro Chris.

          Dave

        • fessdo on February 15, 2019 at 7:18 pm

          Chris,
          You have great knowledge on the law but you lack on the grace of God and the mercy of Jesus.
          Your law would leave out the invalid person and Jesus didn’t leave out anyone who would receive Him.

          Fessdo

          • Son on February 16, 2019 at 12:17 am

            Amen, brother Fessdo. I am so grateful to God that you are part of our fellowship on this forum!

            With much love and respect for you, my brother. We learn from your words inspired by His Holy Spirit!

            Dave



          • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 16, 2019 at 4:22 pm

            Grace And Peace From The LORD And Saviour, JESUS CHRIST!

            Fessdo, ? Please “elaborate” on my “Great knowledge of The LAW.”
            i “probably” have “barely SCRATCHED the surface” in my “studies.”

            my “expertise,” IF i am “gaining” Any, after meeting The LORD JESUS, And receiving God’s GRACE And Mercy (as as UNdeserving SINNER!), And HIS Establishing An ETERNAL “Relationship” With HIMSELF!, is More Likely “Geared” To studying/understanding/comprehending This!:

            Romans Through Philemon = God’s GRACE / Love Letters “Directly” TO us Today FOR: Consolation, Comfort, Edification, Enjoyment, Encouragement, And spiritual Building Up Of ALL the “members’ ( saints! ) In The Body Of CHRIST!, HIS Church, Seated In HEAVEN!

            + To “make ALL see what is The Fellowship Of The MYSTERY!”
            (Ephesians 3:9!)

            And this, As God Has Commanded us in 2 Timothy 2:15!, is “To Be RIGHTLY DIVIDED!” From:

            {NOT “mine,” But:}
            God’s “LAW” Scriptures! Is Not this “exactly” where Most of the “professing” church is “throughly Confused”? “MIXING Up Law WITH GRACE!”? Of which confusion “God is NOT the author!” (1 Corinthians 14:33!)

            surely we BOTH “agree” on this, at least? Amen?:

            {looks as IF we are now “sidetracked” from our discussion of “0-3 baptismS vs condemnation,” eh?}

            “Now I beseech you, brethren, By The Name of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment!” (1 Corinthians 1 : 10 cp Ephesians 4:3-6!)

            Thanks again, Fessdo. be BLESSED!

            brother Chris



        • Nate on February 17, 2019 at 11:59 am

          Wow. You can’t be saved if you haven’t been baptized? I know that baptism is an important part of our lives when we are saved but what happens: “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”? Has this scripture become null and void because you haven’t been baptized?

          What happens if you make your confession with your heart and something happens and suddenly your life is over before you can get baptized? Will Christ say depart from me I never knew you because you were never baptized even though you received Me as your Lord and Saviour?

          What, as some have already mentioned, about the thief on the cross? Why didn’t Christ bring him down so he could get baptized, put him back up there before telling him that he will be with Him in Paradise on the same day? Or say to him “…today you will be with me in Paradise” But first, you must be baptized?’ I know it sounds a little far-fetched but it’s still a question.

          I am not disregarding the importance of baptism or scripture, Lord forbid. I am aware that Mark 16:16 says “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” But if you look at the scripture Jesus did not say but he that believeth and is “not baptized”will be damned.

          My question is what about the thousands, maybe millions of people the world over every year that passed and pass away. If they make Deathbed confessions and can’t get baptized what will happen to them? Will Christ say ‘depart from me I never knew you because you were not baptized?’ Or will He say something such as ‘enter into My rest because you have believed on My Name with all of your heart?’

          I remember years ago, in the 70s or early 80s, when my uncle, who was a minister, told me one day he was talking with someone and asked him ‘what if a person confesses Christ and is not baptized baptized is he going to hell?’ He said the man said ‘yes he is.’

          My uncle then said to him ‘what if, for whatever reason, they can’t get to any water whatsoever then lose their life before they can be baptized?’ He replied “I didn’t think about that.” I never forgot that conversation. Now I know you may say well he didn’t have to get baptized right away. But the question that my uncle posed was just to get the guy thinking about it.

          My father was a minister and I was baptized when I was around 11 years old in his church. About 16 years later I was baptized again because I was attending a different church regularly. I don’t think I had confessed Christ at that time but I figured if you’re attending church on a regular basis that you’re supposed to get baptized. I made a full confession in 1984 but wasn’t baptized because I had already been baptized twice.

          In 2002 I rededicated my life to Christ and decided for the third time to get baptized not because of the comments made about being baptized one, two or three times but because I had a much better understanding of Christ and the scriptures than the previous two baptisms. Thanks for reading. These are just some thoughts or my perspective.

          God bless you all.

          • Son on February 17, 2019 at 1:12 pm

            Brother Nate, thanks for sharing with regard to the subject of the necessity of baptism to obtain salvation..
            1 Timothy 2:4-6
            “Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
            For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
            Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
            Then, there is the question I have always pondered about people who can say they believe in Jesus, but have not received/been baptized by His Holy Spirit. I’m fairly sure you know people like that.
            So, are those people saved who confess Jesus as their savior but have not received His Holy Spirit?
            John 3:16
            “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
            If we take that scripture at face value, it would appear to me as though ALL who “believeth in him (Jesus) should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Nowhere is it written, “believeth in him AND ARE BAPTIZED”.
            We can argue until Jesus returns about whether baptism is necessary for salvation.
            There are also these bible verses to consider:
            Acts 2:38
            “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
            That verse, taken at face value, would indicate that people are first baptized by water and then baptized by The Holy Spirit AFTERWARDS.
            John 3:5
            “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
            That sounds to me as though one needs to be baptized by water as well as The Holy Spirit to be saved.
            Mark 16:16
            “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
            This is rather confusing, in my own mind, because on one hand, we are instructed that both believing AND baptism are necessary for salvation, but baptism without believing will lead to damnation.
            In my own case, Jesus filled me, a Jew from birth, with His Holy Spirit in a manner similar to the description of the manner in which God’s Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus.
            Luke 3:21-22
            “Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
            I had gotten down on my knees, in front of 5 or 6 disciples who had exhorted me to ask Jesus to come into my life and save me, and begged Jesus to help me believe in Him. That was when He filled me with His Holy Spirit and indeed, it felt to me like His Spirit descended upon me like a dove and filled me up with a warmth and peace so that I instantly knew it was Jesus who had entered into me and secure=d my faith in Him. Before I could say a word, all of the disciples in the room began praising and thanking God, saying, “Thanks, Jesus, for saving our brother Dave!” They felt that Holy Spirit at the same time I did.
            His presence was tangible in the room.
            Do I have any meaningful answers to the question of whether we need to be baptized to enter The Kingdom of God? No, I don’t. I just know that if we can agree that Jesus Is The Lord and believe that, we should then obey His prompting. If His Spirit that lives within you tells you to get baptized, obey Him. If He doesn’t tell you to get baptized, it’s up to you what you choose to do. That’s what I think and tha, uh, tha, uh that’s all, folks.

            The Peace and Blessing of God to you, Nate, and to all of our brethren in Jesus Christ.

            Dave



          • Stu on February 17, 2019 at 2:00 pm

            Hi Nate. I think you are correct. Baptism was a public announcement and confession of the kinship people had with Christ, and in those days, it was huge. People were murdered because of that confession—just as many are in Eastern countries today.. Baptism is not something you do before you are saved; it has no meaning. But after you are saved (note the very tense of the word “after”), you are to then become obedient and profess to the world that you are a follower of Jesus. That was its purpose—to emphasize your bond with Christ—who was himself nailed to a cross for blasphemy. .

            Thanks for your coming along side us. Welcome in the name of the Lord.



      • Son on February 16, 2019 at 1:07 am

        Brother Fessdo,
        I apologize that Jeanne got a little testy with you in her reply to your blessed, well-considered advice, which I prompted her to seek, I confess. She is high-spirited and not as spiritually minded as some, but I know she loves and worships Jesus, as best she has been enabled thus far by our Lord. She is very dear to me, I love her very much and I was there when she received Jesus as her Lord and Savior. I would like for her to increase her spiritual awareness and live to please God. I do what I can to lead her in that direction, but, again, women can be very secular in their thinking at times, as I’m sure you are aware. : )
        Thank you for being willing to counsel her with God’s wisdom and will for her, my very esteemed and beloved brother!

        Talk to you soon, bro.

        Dave

      • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 11:31 am

        It is only the person that He did foreknow that will be saved. It is of no consequence what we do or do not do as it pertains to the heaven or hell question. Rather, it is what He has done that will ultimately decide our fate. So it is the paradox of freewill by predestination that rules the day. “Remember me” was enough to gain the thief on the cross paradise. Was that by his own choice or by the choice that God already knew He would make. Answer=Yes

        • Stu on February 20, 2019 at 12:10 pm

          I think, if I may add to your comment Todd, that when God told Abraham to kill his son, Isaac, God already knew what he would do, but Abraham did not know; therefore, it was not for God’s benefit as you shared above regarding the thief on the Cross, but for Abraham’s. Abraham had to know experientially that his faith in God was genuine. So it is with us. Our obedience to the Holy Spirit is not for God’s benefit, but experientially, for ours. Thx for your comments.

          • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 11:26 pm

            Yes, yes, yes! It’s so refreshing to have people that understand the revelation of Jesus Christ as it truly is and not a version that has been tainted with man’s skewed view of God as they only see Him through their religion or graven image.

            So blessed to have like minded brother and sisters in Christ.



          • Son on February 21, 2019 at 1:10 am

            Amen, brother Todd. We have established a fellowship in Jesus on this forum, finally.
            Let’s praise and honor our Lord here, brothers and sisters1

            With His Love,

            Dave



        • Son on February 20, 2019 at 12:50 pm

          NOW we are “getting to the depths,” as you put it, Todd, of this discourse. Free Will vs. Predetermination.
          God is omniscient, so He knows everything: past, present and future. He foreknew all of our decisions before we even knew we had a decision to make and, since time does not apply to God, it may as well have all happened simultaneously. Hence, predetermination exists and applies to every situation.. However, we, as human beings, do not know in advance what decisions we will have to make, nor do we know in advance what our choice(s) will be. We FEEL as though we make the decisions as the need to make a decision arises, so we are under the ILLUSION that we make a choice. Perception is 99.9%, at least, of reality, so our free will, thusly, IS REAL. It exists side by side with predetermination. How is that possible? It’s the ying and the yang. All things are possible with God. So, yes, free will can exist alongside predetermination.
          MATTHEW 19:26
          “But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”

          Dave

          • Todd on February 20, 2019 at 11:32 pm

            Wow Dave you just blew me away. We are cut from the saw cloth my brother. You are literally speaking word for word what I have taught for the past 18 years. Out of the mouths of 1 or 3 witnesses let every word be established. It truly makes me want to weep at His goodness and mercy. I don’t know how I even found this blog. I serious don’t remember but I now know why.

            Thank you so much Dave. You have been a tremendous blessing to me the past two days than most I have spoke to the past 10 years. I believe this is how iit is supposed to be, effortless for us as God takes the reins and guides us to multiple detonations.

            Simply wonderful.

            Kind regards,

            Todd



          • Son on February 21, 2019 at 1:14 am

            Praise Jesus for the fellowship He has provided for us on this forum! I, too, appreciate your spirit-filled contributions here, bother Todd. We shall overcome by The Blood of The Lamb and the word of our testimony!

            God bless you, dear brother Todd!

            Dave



          • Son on February 21, 2019 at 2:15 am

            Yes, my true brethren, we are establishing a fellowship here on this forum as we share our experience with and appreciation of our Lord Jesus. Let us continue to each provide our own testimony so that we may all be edified and increased in our knowledge of and worship of God and His Only Begotten Son Jesus, His Holy Lamb! All praise, blessing, honor, glory and power unto Him!

            God bless you all and keep you in His Amazing Grace!

            Your bro,

            Dave



        • Stu on February 21, 2019 at 11:01 am

          Thinking about a comment someone once made, it got me thinking. It is hard to “please” God. When we use that word, it sounds more works-related than faith-based. Rather, we learn to “trust” God. And isn’t trusting Him really pleasing Him? That is what He really wants from us. I share this as it relates to a comment later you made, but there was no Reply button to click on. Thx for your very encouraging and positive attitude, knowing that every Christ follower is at a different place in his journey with the Lord.

          • Todd on February 21, 2019 at 11:49 am

            Amen Stu, I could not agree more. I once heard it said that faith is an acronym. Forsaking all I trust Him. You will never go wrong with that attitude. Pleasing people, self, or God are laborious acts that we sometimes do because it is expected of us, or we think that it is going to get us something in return. But He the Lord told us to enter the REST of God. That word to me has a twofold meaning. The rest pertaining to God’s rest on the 7th day. Of this there is much to say. We are to strive to enter that rest. People do not understand that God Himself is a paradox, a seeming contradiction. No doubt to the natural or carnal mind He is. To that mind this is all foolishness. Look at it this way. If we want to save our lives we must lose them. If we what to receive we must give. The first shall be last and the last shall be first. God thinks totally backward to our natural minds. Back to the rest of God, I want to suggest that entering that rest is the equivalent of having your head cut off and I am not talking about a physical act but rather a death to self, to my own will, to my own idea, to my own desire. Look at it this way, to have the mind of Christ another mind must die. If you go read in Hebrews about the rest of God there is a part of the scripture that kind of seems out of place for the subject. Almost like it was an after though and just thrown in there.

            4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

            2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

            3 For we which have believed do enter rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

            4 For he spaces in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

            5 And in this place again, if they shall enter my rest.

            6 Seeing therefore it remained that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

            7 Again, he limited a certain day, saying in David, to day, after so long a time; as it is said, today if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

            8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

            9 There remained therefore a rest to the people of God.

            10 For he that is entered his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

            11 Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

            12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

            And there it is in verse 12. The Word which most would call the scripture but I would call Christ divides what is soul=psyche and what is spirit=pneuma. In short, He cuts your head off and gives you His mind. So much more revelation to be had here but not for now.

            Then the other rest of who God is not knowing God as you do know but finding the depths of who He is. The problem with that is that there is no rest of God. The rest of God cannot be captured or fathomed. We would have to be able to consume the universe and we still would not be able to find the rest of God. But it’s not about a destination but rather a journey to know Him and consume who He is one bite at a time. Knowing all of Him would mean that there is an end to Him and who He is. Impossible…He holds eternity in His hands. I sometimes wonder if God who is all knowing knows the depths of who He is. It is almost like asking the question could God create a rock that is too heavy for Him to lift. The answer, yes if He chose to not be able to lift the rock.

            More to your point, YES! Our trust in God is paramount. That degree of trust must driven with the fuel of LOVE. Again, and again this is the force that makes up everything in the kingdom, love. More than that Christ is the kingdom. He is the streets of gold, he is the pearly gate, he is the 12 foundation stones, and most certainly the light of the kingdom. Do not think of this in the abstract, HE IS ALL THOSE THINGS AND MORE. When you walk those streets of gold it is Christ that supports your feet. When you go through the gates it is He that is your entrance. Those big beautiful walls pf precious stones that provide beauty, strength and protection is a literal manifestation of Him. He is the substance of every stone in the wall. And no doubt about it He is the LIGHT of the CITY shining forth His radiant love and piercing the spirits of men as He rises from inside each one of the chosen. What a King!!!

            Here is the kicker. All that lives inside of us in time right now. All we must do is die to this carnal mind to the point where we like Paul are caught up to the 3rd heaven or 3rd dimension and we too can experience a taste of life over there. I believe that we have the same access as Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Ezekiel, Paul etc… Are we willing a ready to trust Him to that degree? Amen!!!

            Regards,

            Todd



          • Son on February 21, 2019 at 12:27 pm

            Hi, brother Stu. I may have once commented, “We can overcome our flesh and live in The Spirit when it becomes more important to us to please God than to please ourselves.” I researched and found the following bible verses with regard to that thought:
            1 JOHN 3:22 “And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.”
            ROMANS 8:8 “So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.”
            1 THESSALONIANS 2:4 “But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.”
            Finally, Jesus tells us how to please God:
            JOHN 14:15
            ” If ye love me, keep my commandments.”
            I think we can please God by worshipping Him with all of our heart, mind and soul in spirit and in truth.
            JOHN 4:23
            “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.”

            His Peace to you, dear brother Stu!

            Dave



          • Son on February 21, 2019 at 12:55 pm

            How about these scriptures, brother Todd, with reference to the “acronym” or “paradox” nature of God?
            1 CORINTHIANS 17-29
            ” For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.”
            HEBREWS 11:3
            “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”

            His Peace to you, brother.

            Dave



    • Son on February 15, 2019 at 1:45 pm

      Dear bro Chris, here is my heartfelt, honest take on salvation by faith in God’s Holy, Only Begotten Son Jesus, in complete agreement with Fessdo, I believe that all that is required to save us is the Blood of the Lamb. I also believe that we have been predestined unto salvation in accordance with The Perfect Will of God and that our salvation is sealed by His Word.

      Ephesians 1:4-5 “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:”
      Ephesians 1:5
      “Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,”
      Romans 8:29
      “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”
      John 10:28
      “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

      I realize that my view of scripture is relatively simple and not as learned as those who painstakingly and intensely study each and every verse in the bible, seeking to glean hidden and secret meaning from every word. I rely on The Holy Spirit of Jesus who lives inside of me to interpret what I read in the bible and also provide me with inspiration and wisdom in accordance with His Will for my understanding and faith in Him. I rely on Jesus entirely for my life as I live each day one at a time, trusting His Will and waiting for His return. I’m not perfect, no, far from it. But, I just don’t feel a need to over-complicate matters and emphasize my differences between brethren of what is The Truth of God and what is the custom of men. If a brother can say to me, “Jesus is The Lord”, he is my brother in my sight and in the sight of God, I believe. That’s good enough for me, all praise and glory to Jesus.

      Luke 18:16
      “But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.”

      Of course we can share fellowship together, bro Chris, and also our brethren Fessdo, Stu, Abraham, Jeanne and all who come to this forum to honor and worship The Holy Name of God’s Word made flesh, Jesus Christ.

      Peace to you, bro.

      Dave

      • Stu on February 21, 2019 at 12:44 pm

        Hi Dave. My comment regarding pleasing and trusting God was not referring to what you shared in any way, but I was actually reflecting on a sermon preached by a Pastor whose high school kids brought him to Christ. He was distinguishing between works and grace and made a deep impression on me, and I felt like sharing that with Todd.

        May the Son shine on you today. 🙂

        • Son on February 21, 2019 at 12:59 pm

          Cool, bro. Thanks for the blessing.

          His Blessing be upon you, too, brother Stu!

          Dave

    • Todd on February 21, 2019 at 1:07 pm

      Here is your answer.

      16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: 17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ’s. 18 Let no man rob you of your prize [a]by a voluntary humility and [b]worshipping of the angels, [c]dwelling in the things which he hath [d]seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast the Head, from whom all the body, being supplied and knit together through the joints and bands, increaseth with the increase of God.

      20 If ye died with Christ from the [e]rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, do ye subject yourselves to ordinances, 21 Handle not, nor taste, nor touch 22 (all which things are to perish with the using), after the precepts and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will-worship, and humility, and severity to the body; but are not of any [f]value against the indulgence of the flesh.

      People have struggled with these types of issue for a long time. Me, I’m just a backward country boy from Texas, but when I started on this path 18 years ago after being in the system, and I mean in the system for 36 years, these types of conflicts faded away. A new creation began in Him. I suddenly realized that freedom was not my ability to do whatever I wanted but rather the absolute joy in knowing that Christ would to do all things through me. If we were to just allow Him to be who He is in all that we do, it would set us free from these carnal minds and fleshly bodies.

      I do not give a you know what about the impediments that people put upon us that are working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Who are they to trick us into going back to the rules and ordinances of men and not those of God? Once again, I humbly tell you that I am no one special but I do know that everything in our lives as it pertains to salvation and holiness can be summed up in these two things, Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. The second is like unto it, you love your neighbor as yourself. In these two things are all the law and the prophets fulfilled. The first is toward heaven the second is the witness on the earth. Anything more than that becomes a lesson in futility because everyone can argue concerning rituals and ceremonies but no one can argue with LOVE i.e. CHRIST because that is who He is. He is the eternal and ultimate manifestation of love. If you traveled 1000 light years into space you will find a footprint of where He has already been which means love has already been there. Keep going on and on and on no matter how far no matter what galaxy it is you will find that His love has already been there. It is love that keeps the universe in order. It is love that causes the sun to rise. It is love that sent an innocent lamb to a lonely hill called Golgotha to bleed out His life so that He could expressed His love to you.

      This is how I read 1 Corinthians 13:13

      1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have Christ, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have Christ, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have Christ, it profits me nothing.

      4 Christ is patient, Christ is kind and is not jealous; Christ does not brag and is not arrogant, 5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, 6does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

      8 Christ never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is Christ.

      I hope that you see it. Christ is LOVE and Love is CHRIST. When I read this no it takes on a whole new meaning for me. Notice when we are in Him and only Him can we becomes love because that is who He is. Face to face or Love to Love is the greatest of all commandments and those two are the fulfillment of all. People see love as an emotion or some abstract idea of good. NO! Christ is literally the manifested of love and the very its essence of its existence.

      So, if you’re a heretic so am I. That may surely be man’s interpretation of us. But God! Oh yes, we are in a love relationship with Him and that is what drives them nuts because they cannot control us with their church, denomination, religion, rituals, ceremonies, or their infantile understanding and interpretations of scripture.

      We might well be nuts but we are screwed to the right bolt. So rejoice in the freedom that Christ has given to you but make certain that your dwelling place is in Him else you lose that freedom. Anyone or anything that puts any belief or law above CHRIST/LOVE is to be discarded and put on Paul’s dung heap. So take out the trash my brother and live in Him.

      Todd

      • Stu on February 21, 2019 at 1:30 pm

        Yes, Todd. I am with you in who Christ is and the paradoxes we see in the Spirit compared to the flesh. He is the land, in whom we dwell. He is the chair, for we are seated in Him. The water we drink and the food we eat are not the real water and food, for he is the living water and the bread of life. All that is real is Christ. All of the physical things we touch and enjoy, the clothes we wear and how we move about are not the real things, but shadows and figures of what is true. It is astonishing that what we see and experience dimly will soon be made clear.

  11. Jane on February 7, 2019 at 5:09 am

    Are people of other religions condemned?

    • Stu on February 7, 2019 at 8:01 am

      Hi Jane. A better question might be to ask, “Am I condemned”? I recall once, myself being a rather defiant atheist for twenty years, and who studied Physics with the very best, how anyone could stand the idea of religion. Surely, it was only a coping mechanism. I found great solace in—with even greater arrogance—that I was right. When I decided to turn my life around and humble myself, I realized Jesus was not part of a religion, but a relationship. He wanted us to know him, personally. It is pretty strange for a god to want to know a nearly invisible speck in the universe. He was not just any god, but the God who declares that we were made in His image, the God in whose character we were made. Yes, I was at least as skeptical as you. In fact, no one could believe it was the same me. But God can and does what is impossible for us to do. He doesn’t just change hearts or fix them, but gives us brand new ones.

      When a bridge is built, you cannot test it by sending a cat over it, but a train. When the atheist’s life is full and things are going well for him, he says to himself, “I have no need of God.” But it is when his world falls apart that the collapse of his bridge is imminent. Even Lenin cried out to Christ on his deathbed. Strangely, God delights in us when we call upon Him to save us, just as we might call upon our father in time of urgency and need..

      Can we not simply ask God if He is real? Sure we can. Would not the God of the universe be large enough to answer us and be pleased to reveal Himself to us? All through his Word He tells us to believe that what is not possible for man is possible with God. The real question comes down to whether you believe that. For twenty years, it was not something important for me. I hope one day it is for you. Ask Him sincerely to reveal Himself to you and watch—watch the little things you say and do. Don’t compare yourself to others, whose journey is at a different place than yours, for God does not deal with us enmasse, but individually. He wanted for there to be a Jane in this world and He wants you to know that.

      • Jane on February 7, 2019 at 8:18 am

        Dear Stu,
        Thanks for your answer but I’m a bit confused. You did not address my question. If a person believes in another god or a set of gods, will he/she be condemned if they worship their god(s) who may or may not have created the world.

        • Stu on February 7, 2019 at 8:43 am

          Here then Jane is what the Word of God tells us: “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

          Let me ask you a question. If the greatest designer of Cadillacs built one that you bought, would you alter its design? or would you accept the idea that changing even a single wire might make it run worse than if you had left it alone to do what it was designed to do? If God is the greatest designer of men, would you chance switching even a single wire when through experience you saw everyone fall short? Jane, we are imperfect. We are flawed, blemished and frail. We think we know everything because—if we are really being honest—we want to be God. Everyone of us wants to be right—even dead right. Only when we come to humble ourselves and know we are mortal, and do not have the answers of life as God knows them, will we accept the Cadillac the way it was designed to be.

        • Son on February 7, 2019 at 11:46 am

          Jane, we know not how God will judge. It is not up to me or Stu or Fessdo or anyone else to answer your question about who will be saved. It is up to God to judge.

          Matthew 7:1
          “Judge not, that ye be not judged.”
          John 14:6
          “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

          So, if you think you can believe in anything other than that Jesus is our Lord and Savior and still be saved unto eternal life in Paradise, go ahead and take your chances. But, if you want to be SURE about spending eternity in Paradise with Jesus, Stu, Fessdo and me ; ) – ask Jesus to please, PLEASE let you believe that He is The Lord.

          With His Love,

          Dave

          • Son on February 7, 2019 at 1:49 pm

            A guy keeps asking God to let him win the lottery. One day, as he is complaining to God about not winning the lottery, he hears a deep, booming voice from above say, “My son, you can’t win the lottery if you never buy a ticket!”

            Peace to you, brothers and sisters.

            Dave



      • Nick Van on February 13, 2019 at 12:33 pm

        Here is the answer you are looking for: John 14:6–7 (ESV)
        6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”

        John 3:16–18 (ESV)

        For God So Loved the World
        16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

    • Son on February 9, 2019 at 1:49 pm

      Hi, Jane – are you still following this thread or was your question rhetorical? You don’t want to believe in Jesus, evidently, or else you desire to demean Him and His followers by defiance and bitterness, the identifying characteristics of our (and your) enemy.
      So, let me try to put things in perspective for you in a way to which I believe you can personally relate:
      Let’s say Jesus was YOUR son and he told the world the things that your husband, who was God, The Father and Creator Himself, told him to say, healed the sick, turned the water into wine, walked on water and raised the dead back to life. Then, the people of the world torture him, demean and insult him and finally crucify him, right in front of your eyes. Would YOU forgive them? Would YOU be able to say to your husband, Jesus’ father and God Himself, “Forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
      Or, do you plan to be one of the 72 virgins a Muslim gets awarded when he dies fighting in a Jihad, that Muslims intent being to kill anyone who doesn’t believe in Allah, his own god? Does that sound like a reasonable attitude to you? After being violated by some random Muslim, are you ready to forgive the guy for abusing you as his sex slave?
      Didn’t think so. And THERE is the answer to your question.
      If you wouldn’t forgive them, why should God forgive them? Make any sense to you?

      Peace to you.

      Dave

      • Stu on February 11, 2019 at 12:15 pm

        Hi Dave.

        Let me respond to your question regarding tithing. I asked a similar question to my Pastor. His answer was very much appreciated, and I respected him for it.

        Here was my comment: “I was under the impression that what the NT defined as giving was no longer called tithe,” but “offering.” I was under the impression that God only wanted what we joyfully gave, in fact expressing his distaste if it were given any other way. I also believed that tithing was commanded, but how does God command a person to be joyful if it is his free will do give as he pleases? An offering does not appear as harsh as tithe. It is confusing because in one sense God commands us to give more than 10%, and even so with joy. Does this not take away the spirit of giving if God commands it? It would be like someone giving to a charity out of his generosity but the charity is not satisfied with the amount. Because I know God loves me, I should want to give him whatever his pleasure is, but this seems negated by the expectation to. I am not arguing here—just playing the Devil’s advocate in a “what-if scenario.”

        Here was his response:
        “Dear Stu,
        The New Testament especially makes clear that God wants not obedient actions from us, but obedient hearts. Thus we are commanded to “rejoice always,” and “in everything to give thanks,” and to give “cheerfully.” God is not content with mere external compliance, that is, compliance in our outward actions, but He demands our hearts. This has always been the case, and that is why the first commandment is to “Love God with heart, soul, mind and strength,” but it is emphasized in the New Testament.

        It is impossible for us to obey such commands in our own strength. So when we come up against such a command, we must cry out to God and confess our inability as well as our utter dependence upon His Holy Spirit to enable us to obey. But then we must believe, and from that faith, obey.

        Yes, God does command us to do things impossible on our own. He commands us to give freely. We want to protest, “If it is a command, how can I do it freely?” He says, “You must give, and you must do it freely, not grudgingly or under compulsion.” So what are we to do? Flee to Him to give us what we do not have in ourselves. True Christian obedience is entirely impossible apart from Him. It is fulfilled only in Christ. Our obedience now, as Christians, is not about obtaining salvation, but experiencing it.

        Grace and peace,
        Craig”

        I hope this helps.
        Stu

        • Son on February 11, 2019 at 1:55 pm

          Stu, thanks so much for your thoughtful, revealing response to my question. The considerations that you have presented are very Spirit-filled and meaningful to me. I appreciate you taking time and effort to address my concerns. btw, do you give offerings to your church? If so, how do you decide the amount of your donation? How often do you donate that amount?

          Your brother in Christ,

          Dave

          • Stu on February 11, 2019 at 2:28 pm

            Yes Dave, I do, faithfully. I try to remember to thank God that the little I get is what is His to begin with. Obedience is greater than sacrifice. The old woman at the Temple gave more than all of the richest there—all she had. Jesus made her memory immortal. Do not concern yourself about the amount others give, but about what you give. Know that when you do, you are storing up riches in heaven. Giving represents generosity, and even more, a reflection about the eternal state of your heart.



          • Son on February 11, 2019 at 2:57 pm

            Stu, fwiw, I do not withhold money from God. Whenever He has asked me for it, I have given it freely and with good conscience. I have no idea why the pastor of the church I have been attending has recently (last two weeks) been soliciting tithes AND donations. He sounds desperate, if you ask me. I do not feel the prompting of God to give the church anymore than a $10 offering in the collection plate on Sunday. It feels like the pastor is putting a guilt trip on us to GIVE MONEY, GIVE MONEY, GIVE MONEY!
            Why? Are they mismanaging the church’s finances? The “worship” session before the service has become annoying to the point of being objectionable. The music is discordant, poorly chosen and accompanied by a Benny Hinn-type of revival histrionics on the part of the worship team leader. The church is starting to turn my stomach. I’m ready to leave and not go back. The only thing keeping me hanging on at this point is I enjoy and feel edified by the fellowship I share with some of my brethren at the church. I don’t really know them well enough to associate with them outside of the church environment. So, I am facing a dilemma as to what I should do. I don’t feel right about donating to this church at this time. The requests for money from the pastor make me feel very uncomfortable and drive me farther away from giving than a different, more subtle way of requesting donations than beating the congregation over the head with the GIVE, GIVE GIVE baseball bat.

            Thanks, bro, for your respected advice.

            Dave



    • Son on February 11, 2019 at 1:17 am

      Hey, brother Fessdo, the pastor at the church I have been attending has been beating the drum or TITHES PLUS OFFERINGS for the last couple weeks. Not only that, but the “worship” music has become loud, overwhelming and truly annoying during the same time, with prosperity gospel for the church the overriding theme. Do you think I should run away or destroy my life by giving to corrupt preachers and an insolvent church? I’m thinking about dropping out. I think I already know your response, but I’m curious to hear what you have to comment.

      With His Love for you, my respected and very dear brother.

      Dave

      • Son on February 11, 2019 at 1:51 am

        typo correction: beating the drum OF tithes plus offerings
        I guess that basically, I am asking you what you think about tithing and offerings to a church you attend.
        Thanks, bro.

        Dave

      • fessdo on February 12, 2019 at 7:25 am

        Dave,
        For years I was like Stu and gave my 10% plus LOTS of offerings till one day I saw I was neglecting my family. We was making a good living but we were living a poor life and the more we made the more the devil would condemn me to give. It took a bad thing to happen in my life to wake me up and show me I was on the wrong track. For the last ten plus years I’ve not so much as gave a penny to churches and I have much more peace plus a better relationship with my family.

        Matthew 9:13 GOD’S WORD Translation 13. Learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, not sacrifices.’

        You could ask my family and they would tell you we are living a good life now. But am I doing God’s will, when the devil ask me that I read him this.

        John 10:10 Easy-to-Read Version 10. A thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. But I (Jesus) came to give life—life that is full and good.

        P.S The last church I attended I had to wear ear plugs during the so called worship time. People will do some foolish things trying to impress God.

        • Son on February 12, 2019 at 12:08 pm

          Fessdo, thank you so much for your studied and obviously well-considered response to my question. What you said makes perfect sense to me. And how brilliant a revelation about sacrifice in Matthew! Those words rung true in my heart.
          Basically, the church wants us to “buy” a membership. Moreover, I have no idea what my current church wants money for, for what they will use our “tithes” and “donations”. Is the church mismanaging money?
          Does the pastor desire a raise? I know they need to keep the lights on, but truthfully, it ain’t worth more than $10/week to me to listen to a sermon about giving tithes and donations, preceded by a racket and Benny Hinn-type histrionics that make you want to, as you put it, wear earplugs until its over. I don’t mind ignoring the pastor and not donating. I might even stop attending services. What I will miss is the fellowship I share with brethren in the church. And THAT is my dilemma. I desire fellowship with fellow Christians and it seems as though the church is the best way to find that. I do not begrudge God money. Whatever I have is His. But my common sense tells me that I must be responsible about how I spend what money I have, since I am retired now and have no way to get more money if I run out. Oh, you say
          “God will get you the money you need if you run out?” I guess you can call it a lack of faith on my part, but I would counter, “Well, God can get the church the money they need just as well.” I’m not trying to be a wise-guy here and mock God, never that! But, the church has been less than transparent about the reason they need, within the last two weeks, more money. The makes me a little suspicious. I could give every last dime I have to bums who solicit money on the street, thinking I’m giving to “the poor and needy”, and have nothing left to show for it but my own poverty and need. It is a tough situation. I want to please and serve God, I’m not greedy and/or stingy, but something just doesn’t feel right about giving away everything I worked for over 40 years to a church I’ve belonged to for a big two months. When God has asked me to help someone in the past, sometimes by giving money, I’ve done that and I am willing to answer God’s call in the future. But Fessdo, I look at someone like Joel Osteen and feel like the church leadership is trying to enrich themselves at my expense. It just sticks in my craw.

          Again, my beloved and respected brother Fessdo, thanks for your fellowship and highly regarded advice.

          In Jesus,

          Dave

          • fessdo on February 12, 2019 at 5:36 pm

            Dave,
            That “feeling that something is NOT right” is the Holy Spirit leading you not to make the same dumb mistakes I made for years. Wished I would have followed that (NOT feeling right) I had years ago, if I had of I could have retired a very rich man a decade ago.
            Years ago my pastor whom I had only knew a few months was going on a trip, I heard them say I need my car serviced before I go and could use some tires but I’ll have to wait on tires as they’re expense. At that time I had two jobs and one happen to be at a auto repair shop so I volunteered to service the car and replace the tires with new ones on my dime. The pastor was so thankful and I felt like I had really pleased God. Two months later the loan company picked up the pastor’s car (with the new tires), I felt like God was saying SUCKER. What kind of person doesn’t make their car payment but goes on a trip, the same kind person that wants new tires but keeps it a secret that they can’t manage money. Although that was about a $600 lessen and I didn’t learn a thing, it took years later and thousands $$$ before I finally got a clue.
            Like I say people will do some foolish things trying to impress God especially if they have a very cunning spiritual leader leading them.
            The one thing about getting older you get wiser.
            Matthew 10:16 King James Version (KJV)
            16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

            After all I’ve been thru I still have compassion for people in need, but before I even think about helping them I have to get to know them to be sure I’m not being used AGAIN.
            I use to say I miss God on a daily bases but now I think it’s more on a hourly one. However I believe with all my heart God is saying “Dave don’t make the same dumb mistakes Fessdo made”. There is too many churches for you to settle for less than Gods best.

            Hang in there my friend,
            Fessdo



          • Son on February 12, 2019 at 6:30 pm

            Fessdo,
            Thanks for confirming the feeling that I had initially when this “tithing” and “offerings” bs started at the church I have been attending. I really, truly appreciate your wise counsel, old friend. I also believe that you are SO RIGHT about His Spirit warning me about “wolves in sheeps’ clothing”. If the pastor was more forthcoming about exactly what the church needed the money for, it would have made a stronger case. The pastor, in my view, is no better than a bum on the street corner, except the pastor can use God as a lever to strong-arm you with a sense of guilt if you don’t give. I’d rather join a country club than pay this church anything more than a $10/week contribution (non-tax-deductible for me with the new personal exemption, now) to help keep the lights on.
            Just look at Joel Osteen. Please pass the barf bags.

            Much love for you, my esteemed and wise brother! Thanks for sharing the lessons you have learned with me. Sometimes I am a mere child, I guess, which is good in a way, but not so good in another sense. Thanks again for your prudent counsel!

            Dave



    • Krisu on February 14, 2019 at 4:17 am

      Christians (who are a bunch of bullies, as seen on these comments) do condemn people of other religions. Christians think they are so special. They lack knowledge of God.

      The one condemned by God is called Satan. That is the Anti-God. That is the Anti-Christ. That is Evil, Liar, Murderer, Sin. As God is Good, the Anti-God is Evil. As God is the Truth, the Anti-God is a Lie and all lies. And so on. It’s all very logical.

      That’s all there is, but “imperfect people” don’t get it, because it is about Spirit, not people. People who worship people gather in churches and worship people. They may have nothing to do with God, who is Spirit.

      Jane, there is only one true God. God is All-Knowing. God is Spirit. God has no gender. God is not human.

      • fessdo on February 14, 2019 at 7:58 am

        Krisu,
        Proverbs 23:1-3 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
        When you sit down to eat with a ruler, pay close attention to what is in front of you, and put a knife to your throat if you have a big appetite.
        Do not crave his delicacies, because this is food that deceives you.

        • Son on February 14, 2019 at 11:07 am

          Fessdo, can you please explain Proverbs 23:1-3 to me? I don’t quite understand the meaning.

          Thanks, bro.

          Dave

          • fessdo on February 14, 2019 at 12:23 pm

            Dave,
            When the appetite is strong, and the food enticing, the danger of sinning and suffering is great, – greater than most of us care to observe, and acknowledge to ourselves. The warning here is strongly expressed, and all its strength is needed. To say “Christians (who are a bunch of bullies)” is falling into a judge status and we know what judging causes.



          • Son on February 14, 2019 at 12:46 pm

            So, do you mean that Krisu, by judging Christians for “being bullies” and “condemning people of other religions”, is himself judging others and thereby defying God’s command to us?
            Matthew 7:1
            “Judge not, that ye be not judged.”
            Did I understand your meaning correctly?
            Also, regarding Krisu’s comment, I read this in the bible and it seems to me to apply here, maybe?
            Acts 4:12
            “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

            Thanks for your explanation, Fessdo.

            Dave



          • fessdo on February 14, 2019 at 1:00 pm

            Dave,
            Acts 4:12 is not only a great verse here for Krisu but also for Jane. It does seem like both have judged Christians really harshly, but to be fair I would have to say judging others is a tough one for me to overcome. However thank God I have a savor named Jesus Christ the one and ONLY way to God.



          • Son on February 14, 2019 at 1:16 pm

            Well, God makes the rules, he’s got the clout to back up His authority and He’s the only true judge.
            So, if He gave us knowledge of His Will in Acts 4:12, who are we to dispute His Perfect, Infinite Knowledge and Will? I still say that I don’t know how God will judge on Judgment Day, that knowledge has not been given to me, but I believe that God will be just, righteous and fair when He delivers His judgment of each and every one of us. I’m just very thankful and humbled by His Amazing Grace in forgiving a sinner like me.

            Peace and Blessing from Jesus and The Father unto you, dear brother Fessdo.

            Dave



    • Grace ambassador (bro Chris) on February 18, 2019 at 10:25 pm

      Grace And Peace, Dearest Jane. I do agree with Stu, that is An “INDIVIDUAL” decision of one who “believes” they “should Give An Account” To Almighty God, The Creator Of ALL, And The “Righteous JUDGE” Of ALL HE Has Created! Bottom Line, This Is From The Bible, so the Only question remains:

      IF, In The End, The BIBLE turns out to be FALSE, But I “believe” It Anyway, What Have I lost?

      On the other hand, IF The BIBLE IS TRUE, And YOU “Do NOT BELIEVE” It, Then, What HAVE YOU LOST?

      just sayin’…

      Chris

  12. Atheist Man on February 4, 2019 at 9:51 am

    Church Sucks, and i would never waste my time going there since God the Asshole never gave me a wife and family to share my life with.

    • fessdo on February 4, 2019 at 10:17 am

      Atheist Man,
      With an attitude like yours it’s hard to understand why God hasn’t come down from heaven in person to cater to your every need? I’m sure He will soon but if he doesn’t then when you die you can tell Him He owes you a BIG apology for not giving a sweet guy like you all the breaks. Poor little fellow I feel your pain just hang in their (big baby).
      Fessdo

      • Son on February 4, 2019 at 1:07 pm

        I’m confused now. I thought this thread was about why people shun church attendance. It seems like a forum for people to gripe about their lives. My advice to them is to spend a week in Iran. Broken egg concept. Remember that one?

        Yours truly,
        Ann Landers

        • fessdo on February 4, 2019 at 1:22 pm

          Dave,
          That’s funny and you’re so right. I could kind of understand if it was girls crying the blues but these are cry baby men or boys where I come from. Now that would be my kind of man if I was a women looking for the perfect guy,,, a thumb sucking cry baby that falls to pieces at a hang nail or a bad hair cut or who don’t get his way each and every time and crys crys crys!!!
          Sad thing Dave is they don’t see themselves as being so pathetic, so the put the blame on God or the women.

          • Son on February 4, 2019 at 1:44 pm

            It’s not only guys, Fessdo. Elane wasn’t too happy with events in her life, evidently, Read below. A couple of weeks ago, The Lord revealed something to me through The Spirit: He told me that my life is in His Hands and that I would live in accordance with The Will of God. That gives me a lot of peace, because I don’t have to worry about the future. He’s got it all handled.

            Matthew 6:34
            “Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.”

            Matthew 6:31-33
            “Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.”

            Mark 8:36
            ” For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”

            I feel empathy for those who feel hurt, rejected, persecuted or lonely, but only God can make them whole and renew their lives. Also, we should learn to accept His Perfect Wil because we are not going to change it. God has a perfect plan for mankind. We cannot comprehend the infinite consciousness of God, but thanks to Jesus, we can trust God because we know Him.

            John 14:9
            ” Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?”

            Only God knows what it takes for 70 or 80 years here to get us into Heaven with Jesus for all of eternity and what’s more important than where we shall spend all of eternity?

            Dave



          • fessdo on February 4, 2019 at 6:32 pm

            Dave,
            You are so on point with this, the people here have a emptiness that they’re feeling and they think a guy or gal will solve it when Jesus is the one they need. When they receive Jesus then they can start looking for the other things they need and God will give it to them.
            Matthew 6:33 Easy-to-Read Version What you should want most is God’s kingdom and doing what he wants you to do. Then he will give you all these other things you need.



          • Son on February 4, 2019 at 7:52 pm

            Again, God knows our needs as human beings. I believe that if we ask Him like small children whom He has adopted us as His Own through the Charity, Mercy and Grace of Jesus, in dying on our behalf so that we might not perish but have eternal life with God, our Father and Jesus, our brother and only begotten Son of God, that He will guide us through life on this earthly plane and provide for our needs, which He knows better than we ourselves. Some things you folks might want here, if you happen to be living strictly for the needs of your own flesh, are possibly in violation of God’s rules to live by and therefore harmful for you.
            But if it is a good gift that you seek, if you ask Him humbly, He very well may come through for you. No harm in asking Him and patiently waiting for His Will to be done.
            Luke 11:11
            “If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?”



          • Son on February 4, 2019 at 7:58 pm

            Understand, dear brethren, it is not seemly to be demanding and impatient with God. He is our Creator and sent us His Appointed Savior that we might be reconciled with Him and receive everlasting life in His Kingdom.
            We should approach God humbly and with gratitude that He forgave us. Remember, we started that war by disobeying Him in the first place, in The Garden of Eden. And our disobedience cost Him His Only Begotten Son. And for US? How unworthy are we of His Grace and Mercy?! Be thankful to Him.

            Dave



          • fessdo on February 4, 2019 at 8:09 pm

            Dave,
            If people don’t agree with your comment here then they don’t know Jesus and what He can do in they’re life. If I didn’t have Jesus as my Lord and savior I would be so lost that living wouldn’t be worth living,,,,, living wouldn’t be worth living,,,,,,,,,, living wouldn’t be worth living…… Jesus is worth more than beer, dope, sweets, money, cars, trucks, kids, wife, husband, or mansions. People wake UP UP UP UP!!!! Don’t die and be called a dumb asssssssssssssssss.,



      • Jane on February 7, 2019 at 4:13 am

        Not sure why, but reading this article and some comments make me feel happy I’m an atheist.

        • fessdo on February 7, 2019 at 6:12 am

          Jane,
          Sounds like you’re not sure about a lot of things. Maybe it’s not sure but insecure that you’re struggling with.
          Jesus can fix either one for you, just ask Him.

          • fessdo on February 8, 2019 at 6:10 pm

            Abraham,
            Dave has a deep question here and if you’re new to this blog you’ll have to back up all the way to Feb 7 at6:12 am and hit that reply. Here’s my thoughts on Dave’s question but please add yours.
            God Is NOT Everywhere & Does NOT Know Everything

            The idea of God being everywhere at once and knowing all things from eternity past, present, and future is not an idea that is supported by scripture. This is sometimes referred to as God’s omnipresence and foreknowledge or omniscience. To prove that He is not everywhere, all we must do is find one place where He is not. To prove that He does not know everything, all we must do is find one thing in scripture that He doesn’t know.

            God Is NOT Everywhere
            “YES HE IS! AND IF GOD ISN’T EVERYWHERE THEN GOD ISN’T GOD!” is what I’ve heard so many times. It does seem much easier to believe that God is everywhere, at least at first, but the more you search the scriptures, the more you will find proof against it; and out of God’s own mouth at that. The scriptures don’t contradict. Ask your pastor to supply you with bible verses on this topic and not opinions. The purpose of showing these verses IS NOT to expose some weakness in God, but on the contrary, it clears up some issues of accountability… If God is everywhere, then He obviously knows everything; the two ideas go hand in hand.

            God Does NOT Know Everything
            “Billions of years ago, God already knew that you would be right where you are now, reading this paragraph” Right? God never said He knew everything. The word “omniscience” cannot be found in the bible. He knows the number of hair on your head, He knows the sparrows that fall to the ground (Luke 12:6-7), but the bible doesn’t say He knows the sparrows that will fall to the ground millions of years from now or how many hairs will be on your head in the future. This doesn’t mean that God is any less God. Knowledge makes a person accountable. Anyone who knows that something is going to happen but fails to act is guilty of inaction. Knowledge is power, and with great power comes great responsibility. Luke 12:48 says, “…to whom much is given, much is required…” If everything is in God’s hands, then He is required of everything. If anyone knows 100% of everything that has happened, is happening, or will happen, they are responsible for everything past present and future.

            Would God Have Created Lucifer?
            Would God have created Lucifer, knowing he would one day become Satan (His worst enemy) and be the result of billions of human deaths AND countless angels (1/3 of the angels in heaven) falling from grace and burning in The Lake of Fire for eternity? Would God have created him if He knew it would end with His own son being tortured on the cross?

            Would God Not Prevent Tragedy?
            A little child was crossing the road and got hit by a car. There was a person watching the whole time because he was right next to the child, AND he knew exactly what was going to happen. He had 100% control to prevent the situation and yet made a conscious decision NOT to prevent it. In fact, he also had control over the car that hit the child. Now, that man has become responsible for what has happened.

            Where God Is & What God Knows
            Matthew 6:9 – “Our Father, which art in heaven…” (Also in Luke 11:2)
            [in heaven] – Did Jesus say, “Our Father, which art EVERYWHERE”? No. Our Father which art in heaven. Heaven is where God is coming down from in the following verses:

            Genesis 18:21 – “I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.”
            [I will: go down, see, and know] – This was from God’s own mouth. How stupid do we make God sound when we say He is everywhere, sees, and knows everything? Under that theory, this verse would read, “I will go down now to where I already am, and see what I’m already there looking at, and if not, then I will know what I’ve already known this whole time”.

            Genesis 11:5 – “And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower….”
            [came down to see] – If the Lord was already there, then He wouldn’t have to come down, and if He’s already looking at it, then He doesn’t need to come to see; He would have been there the whole time seeing every brick that was laid.

            2 Corinthians 3:17 – “… and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”
            [where the Spirit of the Lord is] – Is liberty everywhere? No. Neither is the Spirit of the Lord. Where the spirit of the Lord is not, there is captivity and bondage. Is the Spirit of the Lord in a non-Christian? No. That’s what Christians try to accomplish through preaching.

            Psalms 14:2 – “The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.”
            [to see] – Once again, if God knew/saw everything and was everywhere, this verse would say something like, “The Lord looked down to see what He was already looking at to know what He already knew.”

            Jeremiah 8:21 – “For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.”
            [astonishment] – If God had foreknowledge prior to this event, it would not have astonished God.

            Matthew 7:23 – “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
            [depart from me] – How can God, being everywhere, say depart from Me?
            Acts 17:24 – “…God… dwelleth not in temples made with hands”

            GOD SEARCHES TO FIND
            Why would God search if He already knows everything? Would you search for something if you already knew where it was? Can you learn something that you already know? Study the following verses:

            Genesis 18:26 – “And the Lord said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.”
            Genesis 18:28 – “Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.”
            [if I find] – Not that I already know, but if I find when I go there. God’s response would have been different had He known how many righteous men were in Sodom. “I am already there looking at everyone and I already know how many righteous people there are in that city; there aren’t forty-five there.”

            Numbers 10:33 – “And they departed from the mount of the Lord three days’ journey: and the ark of the covenant of the Lord went before them in the three days’ journey, to search out a resting place for them.”
            [to search] – The ark of the Lord was the presence of God. If God was everywhere He wouldn’t have to search for a resting place! He would already be everywhere and know every resting place on earth.

            Deuteronomy 1:33 – “Who went in the way before you, to search you out a place to pitch your tents in, in fire by night, to shew you by what way ye should go, and in a cloud by day.”
            [to search] – Why should He search out a place? If He had foreknowledge, He would have known millions of years ago exactly where they should have set their tents.

            1 Chronicles 28:9 – “And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.”
            [the Lord seracheth] – Why does God search the heart if He already knows what’s inside? The answer is simply that God does not know what is in a person’s heart UNTIL He searches it.

            Jeremiah 17:10 – “I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.”
            [I search] – If we contend that God already knows what’s in the heart before He searches , aren’t we saying that He’s stupid for looking for something that He has already found? It would be as if someone was looking all over their house for their car keys when they knew it was in their pocket the entire time.

            Hosea 7:1 – “When I would have healed Israel, then the iniquity of Ephraim was discovered, and the wickedness of Samaria: for they commit falsehood; and the thief cometh in, and the troop of robbers spoileth without.”
            [Iniquity was discovered] – If God knew everything then He couldn’t discover anything.

            Romans 8:27 – “…He that searcheth the hearts…”
            1Corinthians 2:10 – “…The Spirit searcheth all things…”
            Revelation 2:23 – “…I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts…”

            Psalms 139:23-24 – “Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.”
            [search me, try me, see if] – All of these statements indicate no foreknowledge.

            GOD TESTS TO KNOW
            If you are a student, and a teacher gives you a test, is the test meant to teach you something? No, it’s meant for the teacher to know what you’ve already learned or how well you’ve learned it; knowledge that the teacher didn’t have before. God doesn’t test with evil (James 1:13), but He does test (1Th 2:4).

            Deuteronomy 8:2 – “And thou shalt remember all the way which the Lord thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.”
            [to know] – Here, scripture said that God didn’t know whether they would keep His commandments or not, therefore in order to know, God tested them.

            Genesis 22:11-12 – “And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.”
            [now I know] – God did not say that He knew what Abraham would do before He tested him. On the contrary, He said NOW I KNOW.

            GOD REGRETS THINGS AND GETS ANGRY
            Genesis 6:7 – “And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
            Jeremiah 15:6 – “Thou hast forsaken me, saith the Lord, thou art gone backward: therefore will I stretch out my hand against thee, and destroy thee; I am weary with repenting.”
            2Samuel 6:7 – “And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.”
            [I repent] – “I regret” and “I am sorry”. Why do something you know you’ll regret?
            [anger of the Lord] – If God had foreknowledge and knew Uzzah would touch the ark millions of years before he did, did God get angry millions of years before Uzzah actually touched the ark just so He could kill him when it came time? Did God repent for all eternity up until Genesis 6:7 actually happened?

            GOD ASKS QUESTIONS
            God DOES ask questions to get information. This doesn’t mean every question God asks is a question He doesn’t have the answer to. All of Job 38 and on are series of questions that He asked Job that He knew the answers to. Every teacher asks questions they already have the answers to, but that doesn’t mean that they have the answer to EVERY question they ask.
            Genesis 3:9 – “And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?”
            Genesis 3:11 – “And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?”
            [Where art thou? Who told thee?] – Consider that God was everywhere and knew everything… As Adam and Eve were hiding, God would have been right behind them while at the same time approaching from several feet away asking, “Where are you”. Then as He was behind the tree with them He asked a question that He knew the answer to trillions of years prior. The truth is, God went through the process of elimination: the only way you could know that you’re naked is if someone told you or if you found out yourselves by eating from the tree. Why would God ask, “Who told you that thou wast naked” if God knew that THEY knew they were naked because they ate the fruit?

            Job 1:7 & Job 2:2 – “And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.”
            [whence comest thou] – I find this point more debatable than the rest because perhaps God knew where Satan was coming from. We can assume He’s just making conversation… But if God knew everything and was everywhere, I suppose this would be a strange question to ask. Imagine that the angels (Sons of God) who were gathered around at that time and asked each other, “Is something wrong with God? Why is He asking questions He knew the answers to millions of years ago? Didn’t God already know where Satan was? Isn’t He everywhere, and wouldn’t He have been where Satan was if Satan was walking around the Earth?”

            God Is Light, He Is Not Darkness
            God is light as Satan is darkness (Acts 26:18). There is no light in darkness, and there is no darkness in light. Light and darkness cannot be present at the same time. Why say this? Because since God is light, it shows another place where God is not; in the dark! If God were in the darkness it would become light because God is light. Here are some supporting verses.
            1 John 1:5 – “…God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.”
            2 Corinthians 6:14 – “…what communion hath light with darkness?”
            Acts 26:18 – “…turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God…”

            How Do We Use This Knowledge?
            The first thing I want to say is that I originally didn’t have any motivation to look for verses that said God didn’t know everything or wasn’t everywhere. I casually found these verses while reading the bible and a mentor of mine showed them to me again and made them more clear. I started out with the common belief that He was everywhere and knew everything. I certainly tried to find verses about God being everywhere and knowing everything, but I can’t ignore the verses listed above and many like it in other places. It changed my way of thinking while reading the bible.
            Now that you have this knowledge, how do you use it? Well, it’s not as much about using the knowledge as it is having a different understanding of how things work. It explains why some things are the way they are. It makes God’s will more clear, understanding that not everything that happens is because God wants it to. Some people don’t pray because they think because they believe God knows all their thoughts. Many people blame God for ALL the evil in the world because they think He knew about it beforehand and didn’t prevent it, was right there and didn’t stop it, and had all control and power and still did nothing.

            Verses on God Being Everywhere & Knowing Everything
            While trying to find the truth in a matter, it’s always wise to examine both sides of the case carefully. If a person believes God is everywhere, they should not only try to find scripture that supports their belief, but find scripture that could also have them prove the God not being everywhere to be true. If a person believes God is not everywhere, they should try to find verses on God being everywhere. In the end, the truth will be exposed. While proving scripture, make sure to always have 2 or 3 passages of scripture to support a point. “In the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established” (Matt 18:16). Here are some common verses that are used to teach that God knows everything and is everywhere.

            1 John 3:20 – “For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.”
            [knoweth all things] – This is as close as it comes to saying God knows everything. This is not saying that God just generally knows everything about everything, even the choices that unborn people are going to make a million years from now. This verse is talking about the heart. By saying “God knoweth all things”, what it is saying is that God knows all things about the heart, which is the topic of the verse. How does He know everything about the heart? Because he searches all hearts (1Chr 28:9 and Acts 1:24). However, He doesn’t know what’s in the heart until He searches it.

            John 21:17 – “…Peter… said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things”
            [thou knowest all things] – For one thing Jesus doesn’t know, see Mark 13:32 – “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.“ The conclusion is that Peter was wrong because here. There is one thing that Jesus said He didn’t know, so He doesn’t know ALL things. This was part of Peter’s 3rd confession for Christ. In contrast, Jesus DID predict that Peter would deny Him 3 times previous to this (Matt 26:34, Mark 14:30, Luke 22:61 & John 13:38). How did Jesus know that Peter would deny Him? First, He knew Peter’s heart (Acts 1:24) and second, He knew the situation Satan would put him in (Luke 22:31) that Peter would have 3 opportunities to accept or deny. By putting Peter in a position to deny Jesus three times, Satan really wanted to establish that Peter was genuinely denying Jesus (Matt 18:16).
            Should we accept Peter saying, “thou knowest all things” as fact? Should we accept Peter’s denial that he knew Jesus before Jesus was crucified as a fact (Matt 26:74, Mark 14:72, Luke 22:57, John 18:27)? No. That’s why this statement is also questionable and needs more similar scripture to be proved, but it would conflict with the above verses where God says He “will know”.
            In other parts of the gospels, Jesus perceives, knows thoughts, and knew things from the beginning” (Matt 12:25, Luke 5:22, John 2:24-25, 6:64, 21:17). Once again though, those verses talk about individual things that Jesus knew. Was the knowledge supernatural? Most likely, yes. I’m not saying Jesus doesn’t have power to know what He wants, just that scripture shows that He doesn’t know EVERYTHING. To prove that God does not know everything, we mustn’t find all the individual things that He does know; we only need to find one thing that He doesn’t know like Genesis 18:21.

            Luke 12:7 – “Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.”
            [the hairs of your head are all numbered] – That God knows all the numbers of hairs on everyone’s head shows 1 thing He knows. Does it imply that God knows everything? No. Does it imply that God has great knowledge and is the most intelligent being in the universe? Yes.

            Psalms 139:7-10 – “Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
            [Whither shall I go from thy spirit?] – This alone must be the main verse that most turn to when supporting the idea that God is everywhere. Of course, Father God is in Heaven (Matt 6:9). God is not in hell; Hell is the absence of God because Jesus says, “depart from me” (Matt 7:23). How this can be understood is that Jesus did descend to hell and took the righteous captives (like David) up to heaven (Eph 4:8-9). Why did David say to God, “Don’t leave me, don’t forsake me” (Psalms 27:9 & 38:21) if it were not possible for God to leave him? If God is everywhere, then God can’t leave David. If David said, “Don’t leave me”, then he must not believe that God is everywhere, and neither should we.

            Jesus Predicts Events of Revelation
            How can God say what’s going to happen in Revelation if He doesn’t know everything? There are a few reasons… Most of the things that happen in the book of Revelation are what God makes happen. It’s the Lamb (Jesus) who will open the seals (Rev 6:1). If He never breaks the seals, most things from Revelation will never happen. He knows the results of His actions. He is also supernaturally powerful to make it happen. In part He has predicted what He will cause to happen through His awesome power…
            God has searched and knows the heart and thoughts of every living creature, whether mortal or immortal, flesh or spirit, me, you, Satan, angels, demons, all souls in heaven, all souls in Hell, and all hearts of everyone in the universe (1 Chronicles 28:9). He knows that if evil is in a person’s heart, and they are faced with a choice to choose a path of good or evil that they will likely choose evil. He also knows that a good heart will generally choose good. This is another likely way God knows how things will go during that time.

            God’s Omnipresence
            Many people believe the word omnipresent to mean “everywhere at all times”. However, “omni” means several or multiple, not everywhere! God has a body like men because man was created in His image (Gen 1:26). Actually, men have a body like God, but whatever, you understand… God has body parts that are all confined to one place. For example, God has hands and fingers (Ps 8:3-6), a mouth (Num 12:8), eyes (Ps 33:18), back parts & a face (Ex 33:23), etc. God goes from place to place in a body as in Gen 3:8, 11:5, 18:21, and so on. God is a spirit (John 4:24). Here’s how He can be omni-present:
            Luke 17:21 – “… the kingdom of God is within you.”
            1 Corinthians 3:16 – “… ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you…”
            John 15:4 – “… Abide in me, and I in you…”
            [the Spirit of God dwelleth in you] – The same Spirit dwells in all born again believers. This is how God (The Holy Spirit) can be in several places at once; by dwelling in believers! It must have been God’s plan to put the Holy Spirit in His children. Imagine the power… If the devil was afraid of 1 Jesus, Imagine that the world had 2 or 3 Jesus’. Imagine thousands! Could this be part of destroying the devil (Heb 2:14)?

            Does God Hear & See Everything?
            Proverbs 15:3 – “The eyes of the Lord are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.”
            Psalms 94:9 – “He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? He that formed the eye, shall he not see?”
            [Shall He not hear? Shall He not see?] – God SHALL hear and He SHALL see. This doesn’t mean He always hears and sees things before they happen or even right when they begin happening (Gen 11:5, 18:21). It also doesn’t mean that He sees and hears things years before they happen. What it does mean is that you will never be able to hide from God. You can’t keep secrets from God. God has an angel that records your actions (Ecc 5:6), assigned to “little ones” (Matt 18:10), as well as angels follow the righteous (Ps 91:12). Why would God have hosts of angels to do His work and be messengers for Him if He is everywhere?



          • Son on February 8, 2019 at 11:53 pm

            A most impressive exposition, Fessdo. It must have taken a bit of time putting all that together. I appreciate your efforts to convince me that God is not omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent.
            Matthew 19:26
            “But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”
            Luke 1:37
            “For with God nothing shall be impossible.”
            Why would God be any less than He can be?
            Matthew 19:14
            “But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”
            I am a little child.
            Praise and glory to Jesus.

            Dave



          • fessdo on February 9, 2019 at 9:40 am

            Dave,
            Not trying to convince you that God is not omniscient,
            omnipotent or omnipresent, just showing you the difference between what’s in the bible and the sacred cow beliefs of churches. I had one Sunday school teacher quit teaching because I had challenged him to find a famous saying he had used stating it was in the bible. After 2mts and 15 people trying hard to find it in the bible he finely said it may not be in the bible but he wasn’t going to stop using it. A week later he stopped teaching, I guess if his sacred cow wasn’t in the bible then the bible wasn’t worth teaching.
            Had a lady tell me that I was wrong saying “it’s by grace that you’re saved thru faith” I had he open her bible and read,
            Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

            when she finished I smiled and said now do you believe it?
            She took off her glasses and said NO,
            I asked how can you NOT believe it when it’s in the bible?
            she quickly answered “oh there’s a lot of stuff IN the bible I don’t believe.

            People today are saying there’s a lot of stuff NOT in the bible that I believe.
            Out of the 15 people that found out the teacher’s saying wasn’t in the bible none said I was right and all to this day use the saying as if it’s the gospel.
            Guess you see now why it’s hard for me to find a church?
            It’s easy to go with the crowd and believe along with them,
            but in the end it may get a little tougher for the crowd?
            My focus is on Jesus and being with Him in the end.



          • Son on February 9, 2019 at 12:10 pm

            Where in the world is Jane, who initiated this whole brouhaha? Guess she was more interested in airing out her gripes to the world than discovering The Truth of All Truths, that JESUS IS THE LORD.
            Fessdo, my old friend and sometimes honery old cuss, lol, I believe that every person has their own personal relationship with God and that, most likely, no two are exactly the same, just as we have different relationships with other human beings. In my own, personal relationship with God, He has shown me that what is in the bible is truth, His Truth, and through His Holy Spirit, He gives me understanding of what I read. Jesus also uses my brethren to communicate His wisdom to me, conduits of God’s voice, if you will, and those communications have an influence on what I think and believe. And, more rarely but still occasionally, Jesus speaks directly to me, that little, inner voice that only I can hear but it gets my complete attention. So, I read the bible (to whatever page he makes my fingers open it, usually, unless I am reading through an entire passage and pause to sleep or whatever, in which case I don’t let my fingers do the walking), commune with Him through prayer and meditation upon His Glory and Awesome-ness and now I even attend a church and their bible study groups, to which God led me by His Grace, where I have found, thus far, true brethren in their worship of Jesus in spirit and in truth. Thus far.
            I still say that we should approach God with meekness, humility and sincere gratitude, for that is pleasing to The Most High Creator and King of The Universe. He has given me inner peace, for which I am so VERY THANKFUL, GRATEFUL AND HUMBLED BY HIS GIFT OF FAITH TO ME!
            ME! SAVED! Thank you, Lord Jesus, my savior, master, God and very best friend!
            I believe that God lets us know when we are straying from that straight and narrow path upon which He has set us that we may gain entrance into His Holy Kingdom of Heaven when the time for that comes. He also gives us His peace that passeth all understanding when we are following that narrow path. As long as I am blessed by that peace with Him, I am not going to concern myself with ecumenical differences. In my mind and spirit, they are simply the arguments of men. There is only one truth, the only truth we need to know to be saved unto eternal life and that is, JESUS IS THE LORD.
            And about works: do you remember the parable of the fig tree? Gregg Powers, are you out there?
            Luke 13:6-9
            He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.”
            I know you have ears to hear, brother Fessdo. What you interpret that parable to mean is between you and Jesus, I believe. Here is what the bible instructs us, regarding faith related to works:
            James 2:14-26
            What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”

            I wish you could join me at the church I now attend, Fessdo. You would be welcomed and feel the love of Jesus in that church as I introduced you to my friends and brethren. It would be a wonderful thing.
            Of course, you’d have to behave and not act like an honery old cuss. ; )
            But, in the meanwhile, as we wait for the return of our Lord and Savior Jesus to bring us home, we’ll probably have to settle for this forum to share in His Spirit, my friend and brother.

            God’s Peace to you.

            Dave



          • Son on February 9, 2019 at 11:10 pm

            Fessdo, God knows Jane. He knows her heart, her mind and her soul, because He is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. He knows why she wrote what she did and He knows why she doesn’t respond. Let’s just leave it at that, bro.

            Love you, man.

            Dave



          • fessdo on February 10, 2019 at 7:01 am

            Dave,
            That sounds like a winner to me.
            Fessdo



          • Son on February 10, 2019 at 9:31 am

            Whatever happened to “Abraham TheBibleMan”?
            You out there, bro?
            I thought you were going to help me to understand why Calvinism is so wrong.

            Dave



          • Son on February 10, 2019 at 5:58 pm

            Fessdo, got a question for you.
            My wife and I are retired and our income is probably 150% less than it was when we were working. The past two or three weeks, the church we have been attending has been beating the drum for not only tithe giving, but donations in addition to tithing. It sounds to me like the church is having some financial problems. Also, their music ministry is making a lot of noise, not music. It is positively ANNOYING rather than ANNOINTING. I’m considering dropping out of church, even though I’ve met some people there whom I like and with whom my wife and I could possibly develop a friendship relationship. I’ve only attended this church for perhaps 6 weeks, so it’s not as though I’m deeply attached to it. Should I be upfront with the pastor and ask him some tough questions about the church finances and why the fund-raising push, or do you think I should run away from the situation? I trust your advise, my brother. Thanks.

            Dave



        • Son on February 7, 2019 at 11:27 am

          Jane, I was once an agnostic, many years ago. I thought about John Calvin’s Theory of The Elect and realized that I may be missing The Truth, that I may be damned to destruction in Hell. I got down on my knees and begged Jesus to help me believe. His Holy Spirit dropped down upon me like a dove and I knew instantly that JESUS IS THE LORD. He has never deserted me or forsaken me. He’s been my strength and purpose every day of my life since I asked Him to help me believe in Him and He is still my Lord, God, Savior and Best Friend to this very day.
          Pray for revelation of The Truth, sister. It will save your life, if you are on His list of The Elect.

          John 6:44
          “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
          John 15:16
          “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.”
          Acts 13:47-48
          ” For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.”

          With The Love of Jesus,

          Dave

          • fessdo on February 7, 2019 at 5:29 pm

            Dave,
            Just wondering what you mean by saying ” It will save your life, if you are on His list of The Elect”?
            Fessdo



          • Son on February 7, 2019 at 5:57 pm

            Well, ole pal Fessdo, it’s pretty self-explanatory I think, and it surprises me, actually, that you have to ask me this question.
            Remember, “Night has fallen, Lewis (Fessdo)?” You’re on “The List” (of The Elect) or you’re not.
            Ephesians 1:4
            “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:”
            Now, take me, for an example: I didn’t believe in God, although I didn’t NOT believe in God before He saved me by filling me with His Holy Spirit. If I hadn’t gotten down on my knees and begged Him to reveal The Truth to me, The Truth that Jesus Is The Lord, I may have never believed that Jesus is the Lord. I had to ask in order to receive an answer. If I were not on His List of The Elect, I would never have known The Truth, that Jesus Is The Lord. Don’t you agree with me here? So, it therefore seems prudent for me to advise Jane to earnestly, importunately ask for revelation of The Truth, and who ya gonna call? JESUS. If Jane doesn’t receive an answer, I guess she takes her chances with whatever happens after death. She’s a big girl and can make her own decisions. If she doesn’t ask, or if she asks and doesn’t receive her answer, she’s no worse off than if she never had asked at all, right?
            Wanna win the lottery? Ya gotta buy a ticket, friend.

            Peace to you, bro.

            Dave

            p.s. – I’m certainly not posturing as though I have all of the answers. You asked me a question and I gave you my opinion as an answer. It’s probably much more complicated and obtuse than I’m making it out to be here.
            1 Corinthians 8:2
            “And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.”
            What I DO know is that Jesus Is The Lord, the crowning Truth of all creation, God’s Holy Word, by whom everything was created and for whom everything was created and exists.
            John 1-3
            “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
            So…did I pass Professor Fessdo’s pop quiz? ; ) At least a “C”, anyway, I hope!



          • fessdo on February 7, 2019 at 6:30 pm

            Dave,
            Still a bit confusing but are you saying that God has a S list and a U list from the beginning of time? So no matter how much you confess or believe in Jesus as your Lord and savior, if you’re not on Gods saved list from the beginning then you’re on the unsaved list and doomed for hell? With that kind of doctrine Jane has only a 50/50 chance getting out of hell for all her believing in Christ? If I believed that crazy doctrine I would join Jane as an atheist.
            Jane read John 3:16 and understand Jane you’re a who so ever.
            Please forget this other made up man’s doctrine,,, it’s Jesus who saves by grace thru faith.



          • Son on February 7, 2019 at 8:02 pm

            Fessdo, different people require different approaches to respond to our exhortation to receive the gift of faith in Jesus. For some, such as myself, fear of “missing the boat” served as the motivation to earnestly, importunately beg Jesus to help me receive faith in Him. Others react to a gentler, more forgiving approach. God told me to write the things that I wrote to Jane. It is up to her to decide whether to sincerely ask Him for faith or stick to her atheistic views. God already knows what her fate will be. His Will is done. He knew everything, past, present and future, from before the beginning.
            John 8:58
            “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”
            Sorry, ole buddy, but your threats of choosing atheism if God doesn’t meet your requirements of Him in your belief falls on deaf ears here. We are completely, totally at the mercy of God. I will say what He tells me to say, because He is The One who gives the gift of faith unto men (and women).
            In your own mortal, fallible mind, Jane has a 50/50 chance of being saved, based upon what I said to her. Where did you come up with that statistic?
            Actually, no one knows how many God will save. Certainly you and I don’t know. So, back to how this conversation began: Jane asked if people who believe in a different God than Jesus, etc., etc. will be condemned. So, what’s your answer, since you seem to have them all? Will God forgive, say, Muslims?
            Give Jane the answer she seeks, if you think you know everything about God.
            Jane, don’t listen to me. Listen to the Master of Wisdom, Fessdo. But still, Jane, I implore you to get down on your knees, admit you don’t know everything and ask Jesus to help you believe. Your eternal life is at stake here, truly I tell you. And if God wants you to believe in Him/Jesus (same thing), you will!
            Oh, and one more thing, brother Fessdo: God is not an Indian giver.
            Hebrews 13:5
            ” Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.”
            We are instructed that there is an unforgivable sin, but I have not committed that sin, or at least, not to my knowledge, and that only thanks to the Charity, Mercy and Grace of God, and I don’t think that you have committed that unforgiveable sin, either. So, God’s promise of salvation remains as a rock of faith for both of us. I’d rejoice to share some fruit from The Tree of Life with you in Heaven, brother Fessdo, all praise, thanks and glory to Jesus, our only Lord and Savior.

            With all due respect and, of course, love for you, my brother by God’s Grace.

            Dave



          • Son on February 7, 2019 at 8:13 pm

            Matthew 22:14
            “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

            Matthew 7:14
            “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

            1 Peter 4:17-19
            “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.”



          • Son on February 7, 2019 at 8:32 pm

            Romans 9:14-16
            “What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
            For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.”



          • fessdo on February 7, 2019 at 9:06 pm

            Dave,
            Where do you dream up this stuff,,, “Jane, I implore you to get down on your knees, admit you don’t know everything and ask Jesus to help you believe” ? No where in any bible have I read that before receiving Jesus as your Lord you must get on your knees? If that was a prerequisite to being saved then I guess the people born without legs is on the “U” list.
            Wonder how God came up with the “S'” and “U” list, was it the tall people = unsaved and the short people= saved or the dark = ? and the light = ? or the brown eyes = ? and the green eyes = ? or the long hair =? and the short hair =???????
            2 Peter 3:9 Easy-to-Read Version The Lord is not being slow in doing what he promised—the way some people understand slowness. But God is being patient with you. He doesn’t want anyone to be lost. He wants everyone to change their ways and stop sinning.



          • Son on February 7, 2019 at 11:39 pm

            Fessdo, I saw you constantly argue with Gregg Powers. Now that Gregg isn’t here, you need to argue with someone, so why not me? Listen, you are entitled to your point of view and your beliefs, I’m fine with that. But, I’m not going to get into a pi$—- contest with you, because I learned from you and Gregg Powers that it is futile and non-productive. The things I say, let them with ears to hear take heed and if I spout a bunch of nonsense, let those with any sense ignore what I have to say. How’s that?
            So, you be the king of this forum and I hope you can bring many folks here to their senses or, even better, to the saving knowledge that Jesus is The Lord..

            See you here, there or in the air, brother.

            Dave



          • Son on February 7, 2019 at 11:54 pm

            And there is this quote from you, Fessdo: “So no matter how much you confess or believe in Jesus as your Lord and savior, if you’re not on Gods saved list from the beginning then you’re on the unsaved list and doomed for hell?”
            How idiotic can you get? If you confess and/or believe in Jesus as your Lord and Savior, YOU’RE SAVED! You were/are on “The List” of The Elect or you couldn’t believe in Him.
            Why should I have to spell everything out for you? You’re an ornery old cuss, ain’t ya?

            You wrote, “No where in any bible have I read that before receiving Jesus as your Lord you must get on your knees? If that was a prerequisite to being saved then I guess the people born without legs is on the “U” list.”
            How dense are you? Getting on one’s knees is a figure of speech. It symbolizes humility and sincere intent of the heart and mind of a person. It is the manner in which we should approach our Creator, Lord and Savior.
            Proverbs 22:4
            “By humility and the fear of the LORD are riches, and honour, and life.”
            Do you attempt to demean me because I tell you the truth? How many times have I heard YOU say THAT?!
            Lose the attitude, brother, and try to remember that we are on the same team.



          • Son on February 8, 2019 at 12:02 am

            One last thing before I say goodnight, brother Fessdo:
            Aren’t you the one who was banging on the drum of “We are saved through faith alone. Good works is not a prerequisite of salvation.”? Remember Gregg Powers? then, why do you write, ” But God is being patient with you. He doesn’t want anyone to be lost. He wants everyone to change their ways and stop sinning.”
            Do you really think that you can stop sinning? Then, why do you need Jesus? To atone for your past sins?
            Matthew 7:5
            “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”



          • BibleStudent on February 8, 2019 at 6:05 am

            Hello sir, the idea of Calvinism and election is terrible mistake to have befallen the body of Christ.
            While I can answer your questions and help you grammatically consider ALL those bible scriptures you quoted, I’m afraid it’s not something a mere comment can cater for.

            I have no need to start an argument so if you are willing to learn what the Bible truly says, you can indicate interest. But let me leave these few verses that throws a major screw at calvinism

            John 3:16
            For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life
            “whosoever” means – guess what – ANYBODY

            Also, if we can know the scope of the people who Jesus died for, we can know the scope of the people who can be saved

            1 John 2
            My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

            2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

            He was writing to believers, hence the distinction is vs 2,
            Jesus is not for ours (believers) only , but also for the whole world

            NOte, this doesn’t mean the whole world is saved, but salvation is available to everyone, yet it must be received

            11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

            12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

            It’s like if I buy out Apple, and announce on world-wide TV, that anyone that wants any Apple product should go to their warehouse, if a man decides not to go, it’s not my fault, it’s not that I haven’t paid for it.
            He just refused (didn’t receive it)

            So, just as a foretaste

            JESUS HAS DIED FOR ALL MEN, HE HAS PAID THE SACRIFICE FOR ALL MEN, BUT ALL MEN AREN’T SAVED

            and the way a man ordains himself to eternal life, is to hear and believe.
            It’s the man’s action

            Good day
            Abraham



          • fessdo on February 8, 2019 at 8:17 am

            Abraham,
            You are so RIGHT, it’s good to know I’m not alone here. Don’t be to hard on old Dave he’s a good old boy but gets a little tore up if he doesn’t get his pats on the back daily or if you don’t agree with his doctrine to the letter. So if you get called an idiot by him just turn the other cheek.

            Truly,
            Fessdo



          • Son on February 8, 2019 at 11:35 am

            Jane, are you following this thread?

            Dave



          • Son on February 8, 2019 at 11:40 am

            BibleStudent,
            You call me a Calvinist, and perhaps I am. It is where God has led me over 50 years. If you believe differently than I, praise God that you believe in Him, anyway. I won’t argue with you. I realize that it would be useless.

            God’s Peace to you.

            Dave



          • Son on February 8, 2019 at 11:47 am

            ” Don’t be to hard on old Dave he’s a good old boy but gets a little tore up if he doesn’t get his pats on the back daily or if you don’t agree with his doctrine to the letter.”
            Ha ha, Fessdo, I still love your sense of humor. At least, you seem to show a little kindness, perhaps even love for me, in your message to Abraham, who, incidentally, I suspect is one and the same as you, using a different screen name. There still may be some hope for you, son. lol
            I doubt you and I will ever fully agree on all aspects of our faith in Jesus. Doesn’t bother me. Thanks to The Grace of God, we both believe that Jesus Is The Lord, and that is what is most important.
            See you around, brother.

            Dave



          • Son on February 8, 2019 at 11:51 am

            BibleStudent, you invited me to show interest in what you had to say, so please allow me to ask you a question: Do you believe that EVERYBODY will be saved in the end?

            TIA, sir.

            Dave



          • Son on February 8, 2019 at 2:32 pm

            Hey, guys, I read something interesting today and thought I’d share it with you. Whatcha think?

            Reformed theologians, along with other Protestants, believe salvation from punishment for sin is to be given to all those who have faith in Christ.[58] Faith is not purely intellectual, but involves trust in God’s promise to save.[59] Protestants do not hold there to be any other requirement for salvation, but that faith alone is sufficient.[58]
            Justification is the part of salvation where God pardons the sin of those who believe in Christ. It is historically held by Protestants to be the most important article of Christian faith, though more recently it is sometimes given less importance out of ecumenical concerns.[60] People are not on their own able even to fully repent of their sin or prepare themselves to repent because of their sinfulness. Therefore, justification is held to arise solely from God’s free and gracious act.[61]
            Sanctification is the part of salvation in which God makes the believer holy, by enabling them to exercise greater love for God and for other people.[62] The good works accomplished by believers as they are sanctified are considered to be the necessary outworking of the believer’s salvation, though they do not cause the believer to be saved.[59] Sanctification, like justification, is by faith, because doing good works is simply living as the son of God one has become.[63]



          • BibleStudent on February 8, 2019 at 3:38 pm

            Hello Dave

            I’m not Fressdo with another name. I’m actually African and stumbled upon this site.

            I wouldn’t have responded at all, but I actually just finished listening to my Pastor on a teaching series answering the questions on “predestination ” “foreknowledge ” “election ”

            And famous theologies like Calvinism, universalism and the new reformed theology.

            Every single verse that you quoted was well explained.

            And I’ll take my time next week to explain each one of them

            To answer your question

            No! I do not believe everyone will be saved.

            Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

            This is clear enough. If you don’t believe, you’re damned already

            But it’s not God that determines who believes , it’s men.

            1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

            See the word “will”

            It’s more than just intent, it’s a disposition.

            2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

            That’s what he wants.

            Everyone saved.

            If he has already determined those who go to hell.

            Then those guys have a pass.

            They can say “I wasn’t saved because God didn’t want me to”

            That defeats the entire thought of the Bible.

            Why are men not saved today??

            Quite a number of reasons.

            They’ve not heard the gospel for one.

            Or they heard and didn’t believe

            Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

            Look at it, they judged themselves unworthy,

            How, reading in context showed us they didn’t want to hear Paul.
            it’s the direct opposite of what Luke said in the later verse about those who ordained themselves to eternal life.

            How?

            They said, “come preach to us”

            Ordained in the Greek means to prepare yourself.

            So they prepared themselves by allowing Paul to preach to them.

            Just like those folks in Berea Acts 17

            The received the word (allowed it to be preached)

            Then they searched the scriptures and believed.

            The Jews in Acts 13 didn’t want to here and that way they were “preparing” or ordaining themselves to destructiom

            I’m sorry I’m not including the Bible texts, I’m using my phone now and I’m not able to freely do all I want.

            But back to your question.

            Like I said earlier. Salvation is FOR ALL MEN.

            but all men aren’t saved.

            Why?

            Because they’ve not believed, it has nothing to do with God.

            God showed that he “wills” that all men be saved.
            How?

            Jesus’death was for the whole world.

            Again, in knowing the scope of Jesus’sacrifice, we know those who “can” be saved — ALL MEN

            Rest assured I have no desire to argue also.

            I almost always avoid these conversations. But I just felt led to speak with you sir.

            Like I said earlier Dave.

            I’m making a proposition.

            Give me time and a listening ear.

            And I’ll clear out all doubts that you have concerning the Bible.

            Yours in Christ.

            Abraham



          • Son on February 8, 2019 at 4:38 pm

            Brother Abraham, I appreciate your taking time to respond to me and also your offer to share your knowledge of The Bible and Jesus/God with me. I certainly don’t think I know everything, although I feel that I know what God wants me to know at this point in my life. Surely, I respect and value your counsel if there are things I need to understand that you can explain to me, under my assumption that God is using you as a conduit to bring me knowledge in The Holy Spirit of Jesus.
            I would ask you one question, for starters: Do you believe that God knows EVERYTHING, past, present and future? Do you think that there is anything not known to God?

            Thank you for your fellowship, my brother. Stay blessed in The Holy Name of Jesus.

            Dave



          • fessdo on February 9, 2019 at 6:13 pm

            Dave,
            Times like this make you just want to listen to the song Genesis – No Reply At All ?
            But during the dry times I love the song Doobie Brothers – Jesus Is Just Alright.
            Nice to have you tube sometimes when people aren’t cooperating.



          • BibleStudent on February 11, 2019 at 3:23 am

            Hello Brother Dave and Brother Fessdo

            Sorry for being inactive, I actually left a message on Saturday, stating that I won’t be available till Monday, but for some reason, my phone didn’t send the message.

            So, I didn’t run off, and I’ll definitely respond to as many questions as I possibly can.

            One of the things I said in the “now-lost” message was that I’d very much appreciate if we saw the Bible as the final authority in our discussion.

            I mean, if I knew something to be true before, and after careful study of the scriptures (convincingly so) I find that it’s not true, I must be sincere enough to accept it

            No sentiments whatsoever.

            Also, we should respect each other’s opinion, not accept it without proof, but respect it in the sense that I mustn’t make any conjectures until I’ve heard the other person out well.

            I can ask questions where not clear, but mustn’t assume what the other person hasn’t said.

            Definitely no insults also.

            I didn’t write the Bible, I just believe every word in there as God’s word for me,

            All these will make for a civilized study into God’s word, much like the Apostles had

            Acts 17:2
            As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
            NIV

            I’ll start off later on today… or might just put all answers in a word document and send us a link to it later (that would take a longer time, perhaps days). But I’ll let you know by the end of today (in my own world it’s 9:20am)

            Yours in Christ
            Abraham



          • BibleStudent on February 11, 2019 at 9:06 am

            Hello Brothers

            I have isolated all the comments from this referenced comment up until my previous comment

            I have them now in a 42-page word document, and I have now decided to read them all together, understand everyone’s mind and answer all issues raised together.

            This will remove the likely back-and-forth toggle that might want to come up.

            This will mean that I won’t be posting here for a while, but I’ll send a link to a file once I am done with all of the document.

            Thank you brothers.

            Yours in Christ
            Abraham



          • Son on February 11, 2019 at 11:22 am

            Abraham, I have a question for you.
            My wife and I are retired and our income is probably 150% less than it was when we were working. The past two or three weeks, the church we have been attending has been beating the drum for not only tithe giving, but donations in addition to tithing. It sounds to me like the church is having some financial problems. Also, their music ministry is making a lot of noise, not music. It is positively ANNOYING rather than ANNOINTING. I’m considering dropping out of church, even though I’ve met some people there whom I like and with whom my wife and I could possibly develop a friendship relationship. I’ve only attended this church for perhaps 6 weeks, so it’s not as though I’m deeply attached to it. Should I be upfront with the pastor and ask him some tough questions about the church finances and why the fund-raising push, or do you think I should run away from the situation? Thanks.

            Dave



          • Son on February 11, 2019 at 11:23 am

            Stu, got a question for you.
            My wife and I are retired and our income is probably 150% less than it was when we were working. The past two or three weeks, the church we have been attending has been beating the drum for not only tithe giving, but donations in addition to tithing. It sounds to me like the church is having some financial problems. Also, their music ministry is making a lot of noise, not music. It is positively ANNOYING rather than ANNOINTING. I’m considering dropping out of church, even though I’ve met some people there whom I like and with whom my wife and I could possibly develop a friendship relationship. I’ve only attended this church for perhaps 6 weeks, so it’s not as though I’m deeply attached to it. Should I be upfront with the pastor and ask him some tough questions about the church finances and why the fund-raising push, or do you think I should run away from the situation? I trust your advise, my brother. Thanks.

            Dave



          • Son on February 11, 2019 at 1:46 pm

            Abraham, thanks for your offer to provide counsel regarding the material you referenced in your latest response to me/us (brothers in Christ). Please understand that it may be time wasted if your intent is to “de-program” me from my Calvinist ideology. However, if you feel it is service to The Lord to do such and therefore choose to make an offering to Him by sharing your biblical viewpoint(s) with me and others who participate in this forum, by all means feel free to do so. You are not wasting your time and energy when you are serving Jesus, regardless of the results. If you find that you don’t have the time to devote to what you have proposed, I understand and do not consider it an abandonment of our fellowship in Him. As long as we can say, “Jesus Is The Lord”, we shall always be brothers.

            Your brother in Christ,

            Dave



          • Son on February 11, 2019 at 7:13 pm

            Genesis, Fessdo.. Like you said about Jane.



          • BibleStudent on February 12, 2019 at 6:21 am

            Hello brother Dave.

            I believe Brother Stu has given you a answer you seem to be satisfied with, as regards church and giving.

            I would not like to talk on the subject of tithe, as that would veer us off into a very large chasm

            Yet, I would like to state that giving in the NT always has adjectives to it that we must pay attention to

            the words WILLINGLY AND SACRIFICIALLY

            Not giving as a commandment

            You’ll find that EVERY, and that is EVERY, of the Apostles taught giving in their Epistles.

            It’s such a major theme in the body, that Our Salvation is called God GIVING
            John 3:16
            For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
            KJV

            He “gave” him to die for us.

            Rom 8:32
            He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
            KJV

            JESUS Also is said to have GIVEN his life

            1 John 3:16
            Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
            KJV

            Matt 20:28
            Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
            KJV

            He came to give his life to us (hence at salvation, we “receive” his life, we don’t “give” our life to Christ…… AT SALVATION)

            NOTE: How Jesus gave his life, willingly…..
            John 10:17-18
            Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

            18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
            KJV

            He laid it down, willingly, and because of that, the Father loves him
            Please notice the flow, I’ll get on it shortly

            HENCE, Every believer is expected to take a cue from this

            Note that Jesus wasn’t “programmed” to die, (like he had no choice, no he did)

            Matt 26:39
            O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
            KJV

            He made this same prayer two more times

            Hebrews says he had to learn obedience in the things he suffered, laying down his life.

            Heb 5:8
            Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
            KJV

            For him to obey, means he had a choice, a will not to obey

            From this we learn a vital truth
            If God did not even command (in the sense of force) his own son (the firstbegotten) to give his life, it shows God will never, NEVER command (force) his other children to give

            He however commands us still. How?? by showing us an example..

            1 Peter 2:21
            For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps
            KJV

            His model, now becomes our own

            John 13:15
            For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
            KJV
            He’s not teaching feet washing here, but how he stooped low, to SERVE us (Phil 2: 5-8)
            So he’s teaching SERVICE

            It is at this point you now GIVE your life, you give your life to serve
            1 John 3:16
            Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
            KJV

            It’s the life he gave you, you give it back in SERVICE to his body (Gal 2:20)
            It’s what he (Jesus) called “taking up your cross” in the synoptic gospels, the term NEVER refers to salvation

            It show’s something about God’s character, he is not the ALL OUT FORCE, COMMANDMENT-HURLING BEING we sometimes make him out to be.

            When God will have us do something, he definitely makes sure he enables us to do it.

            SO LET’S SEE HOW THE APOSTLES TAUGHT GIVING
            2 Cor 8-9 is the prime model
            And you’ll find “willingness” scattered everywhere

            2 Cor 8:2
            riches of their liberality.
            liberality a word that implies freedom, he called it “the grace of God bestowed them” in Vs 1, the grace is the endowment, ability to give
            3
            willing of themselves;

            12
            a willing mind,

            He carries the same thought into chapter 9

            2 Cor 9:7
            Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
            KJV

            In the Greek, the actual phrase is “God loves cheerful giving”, not grudgingly or out of necessity (as commanded), but cheerfully.

            We see Philippi as an example of that in Philippians 4

            Acts 2:45
            And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
            KJV

            Without being forced to, because the Apostles must have shown them how Jesus gave his life for us, and that spurred them to give.

            Not surprising, since it’s a grace given to all believers in the Spirit. It’s not IMPOSSIBLE for the believer

            Gal 5:22
            But the fruit of the Spirit is love, … goodness, ….

            He put that same kind of love in us, which shows itself in goodness, (and all other fruits of the Spirit)

            2 Cor 8:9
            For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.
            KJV

            This has nothing to do with physical riches. It’s not story, that Jesus wasn’t physically rich,
            Rather talks about his sharing what he had with us — that glory that he had—- fellowship with the Father.

            I have taken this long route to explain God’s character so I can be able to say this

            The way God will have us give is to be an example to us

            And he gave willingly, freely, without us asking for it, hence the term GRACE

            But he also gave “HIS ONLY”, John 3:16

            So earning 150% less is not an excuse to not give

            2 Cor 8, the Macedonian church gave in their “DEEP poverty”…..

            So Paul in 1 Cor 16, will instruct to give as you have prospered – as much as you have, sacrificially

            So, Just like Jesus, just like our Father, we have expected attitudes when we give
            CHEERFULLY, WILLINGLY, THANKFULLY, SACRIFICIALLY, LOVINGLY.

            Not out of a commandment, or force, or shame of the Pastor calling us out,

            We give because just like our Father gave, we are BORN-GIVERS, not afraid to give our all, to all (especially those of the household of faith)

            Matt 5:44-45

            44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

            45 –because you are– children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
            KJV

            In giving, we are just like our FATHER

            Yours in Christ
            Abraham



          • Son on February 12, 2019 at 1:11 pm

            Hi brother Abraham,
            Thank you for your wise and considered counsel. Our brother Fessdo also gave me some good advice.
            Simply, I have my own financial obligations to which it is my responsibility to attend. God is not moving me to willingly give money that I need to live to a church I’ve attended for about two months, especially in light of the fact that this campaign to donate “tithes” and also “offerings” just began the last two Sundays. The pastor didn’t even mention the reason why the church wants more money or what use they have in mind for the money. I could give to every bum that asks me for money and still be donating to the poor and needy, but I myself would soon go broke and become poor and needy myself. It is not a lack of faith in God, but He gave me the power of reason to make the best decisions I can make for myself and my loved ones, who depend upon my decisions for their peace of mind and feeling of security. I am by no means denying God His due. Everything I have is His. He can move my heart to give when He wills to do so and I believe that I will obey Him if and when He moves me in that way. As I said before, right now I feel as though I am being tempted by the enemy to choose between giving (honoring the church) or not giving (failure on my part to heed the request of the church). It is a dilemma for me, but I will listen to His Holy Spirit and do what pleases God. He has given me faith that I will receive strength and inspiration from Him to do His Will. I would stop attending church entirely, but I would miss the fellowship that I share with my brethren at church. That is my dilemma.

            Thanks again, bro, for your caring enough to give me your wise and studied counsel.

            God bless you.

            Dave



      • Atheist Man on February 15, 2019 at 6:26 am

        To Fessdo, Well i have a very excellent reason to really hate God since he never came through for me. Even at church unfortunately most women are very rude and unfriendly when you try to start a conversation with them. And i am a very good man by the way that just wanted to have a normal life just like so many other married men and women that have their life so very complete. And yes which i was married at one time, and i was a very good husband that was very caring, loving, understanding, and very committed to her as well. But you know what, she cheated on me by sleeping around with all kinds of men before she was caught. And this really devastated me since i really thought at that time, i had finally met a good woman to spend my life with to have a family. And i was the very faithful husband by the way at that time which still never meant nothing to her. And she even had the nerve to say to me, lets have an open marriage. Well that is when i told her to just get out of my life which i will be filing for divorce immediately, and i really did since i found a very good lawyer and i was divorced in just three weeks. And at my age now meeting a good woman again isn’t really easy at all nowadays for me since they have really changed since the old days, and most women back then were very old fashioned and real ladies which made love very easy to find at that time as well. I know friends going through the very same thing right now too, and well at least i am not alone. Most women today unfortunately are just running wild and sleeping around which they will never be able to settle down with only one man. Peace.

    • pradeep ivon on February 4, 2019 at 9:05 pm

      Atheist man do not keep this attitude its evil accusing our creator! agree we all have our own opinions about the conventional church that we see today but remember history had many servants of God who kept single either by choice or through any circumstances yet they remained faithful in their service & worship to the one & only supreme creator of the universe God Almighty. I pray and seek repentance for your words.

    • fessdo on February 4, 2019 at 9:40 pm

      Dave. They’ve shut me down cause I used the name Jesus to much

      • fessdo on February 4, 2019 at 9:42 pm

        Jesus is just alright with me, Jesus is just alright, oh yeah
        Jesus is just alright with me, Jesus is just alright
        I don’t care what they may say
        I don’t care what they may do
        I don’t care what they may say
        Jesus is just alright, oh yeah
        Jesus is just alright
        Jesus is just alright with me, Jesus is just alright, oh yeah
        Jesus is just alright with me, Jesus is just alright
        I don’t care what they may know
        I don’t care where they may go
        I don’t care what they may know
        Jesus is just alright, oh yeah
        Jesus, he’s my friend; Jesus, he’s my friend
        He took me by the hand; Led me far from this land
        Jesus, he’s my friend
        Jesus is just alright with me, Jesus is just alright, oh yeah
        Jesus is just alright with me, Jesus is just alright

        • fessdo on February 4, 2019 at 9:45 pm

          can’t hardlllllly get thruuuuuu sorry but Jesusssssssssss is what you neeeeeeeeeeeeee

  13. Elane on February 4, 2019 at 1:47 am

    What happens when the church you loved and wanted to serve with all your heart turns out to be a rapist and a thief. One who takes away employment and homes and basic needs of life? What happens when everything not some things but everything you have ever known of church is a lie then what ? I am not speaking of precious feelings being hurt or some other minor offense I am talking about the complete destruction of people’s lives ? The bible says How can you say you love God whom you have never seen but do not love your brother and the TRUTH is not in you. My estimation of that TRUTH is Jesus ( I am the way the TRUTH and the life) God is love . He who does not know this does not know God. It is pretty simple actually

    • fessdo on February 4, 2019 at 8:51 am

      Elane,
      You thank God for giving you the Spirit of truth as your helper. Just think how bad it is for the ones who keep going to churches, they’re like baby birds swallowing anything and everything because they don’t know the Truth,,, Jesus. They think they know Jesus but they never did, they just go with the crowd and 99% of the time the crowd is wrong. Hang in there cause there’s life after church and a good life if you keep your eye on Jesus.
      John 14:16-18 Easy-to-Read Version I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper to be with you forever. The Helper is the Spirit of truth. The people of the world cannot accept him, because they don’t see him or know him. But you know him. He lives with you, and he will be in you.

  14. Marko on February 1, 2019 at 7:07 am

    Well i really hate Church to begin with since it always caters to the married people instead of us single people. Very unfair as it is since many of us were really punished by God to be single, even when many of us never wanted to be in the first place to begin with. God is very evil to do this to us, and we really have No Reason at all to blame ourselves anyway for many of us men that really wanted to be married with a family. It was a real shame that God didn’t create women like the good old days when they were so very old fashioned and a lot easier to meet compared to the ones out there nowadays that really Aren’t that nice at all unfortunately. Even at Church most women are just very unfriendly to meet with a very serious Attitude Problem as well, and they just Don’t have any good manners at all with a very horrible personality as well. God what in the world have you done to these women today?

    • fessdo on February 1, 2019 at 8:16 am

      Marko,
      Church is a place to go to worship and praise God for all his love and goodness that He showers on us even though we don’t deserve it. Some how you have confused churches and bars, this may shock you but people who use a church to pick up girls is a bit strange and most women don’t want a strange boy friend. Also people who don’t take the blame for their screwed up life, is a bit strange.
      Fessdo

      • Marko on February 4, 2019 at 10:16 am

        Fessdo, Imagine having women Cursing at us for many of us men that really did have this happened to us already unfortunately. And i know a few friends that had it happened to them as well. A very bad time unfortunately for many of us good single men really looking for love these days. And it is the women today that are certainly a lot different than the old days too. This is a very excellent reason why many of us good single men are still single today as i speak since we really should have been married already with our own family that many of us still Don’t have right now, even as i speak which makes it a real shame for us since we were just born at the very Wrong time. Have you noticed the change in the women today compared to the old days? I guess you haven’t. Now i can see how very Blessed And Lucky our family members were when they met each other in those days with No Trouble at all either. Many women back then were raised by very good parents when they were growing up which made all the difference in the world. And today many parents just don’t care at all since they really are so out of control now unfortunately. The world has certainly changed today compared to the past. I wished that i could have been born in the past since i myself would have been all settled now. And most women just have no manners and personality at all either nowadays which makes it real very sad. Peace.

        • fessdo on February 4, 2019 at 10:33 am

          Marko,
          Oh you want a wife like they had years ago?
          Like Hosea?

          Hosea 1 Easy-to-Read Version
          1 This is the Lord’s message that came to Hosea son of Beeri during the time that Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah were kings of Judah, and Jeroboam son of Joash was king of Israel.
          2 This was the Lord’s first message to Hosea. The Lord said, “Go, marry a prostitute who has had children as a result of her prostitution. Do this because the people in this country have acted like prostitutes—they have been unfaithful to the Lord.”

    • Stu on February 1, 2019 at 8:29 am

      Dear Marko,
      Our brother Paul probably suffered more than anyone, yet he said that he was content whether well fed or hungry.

      The irony that I just read the following excerpt by Pastor W.A. Criswell:

      “My predecessor at the First Baptist Church of Dallas was Dr. George Truett. For a full year before he died, Dr. Truett suffered agonizingly. He was allergic to all pain-killing drugs. Any narcotic would make him deathly sick and nauseated. So he suffered excruciating pain for a full year. Many who loved him would ask me again and again why it was that Dr. Truett, the great man of God and the incomparable preacher of the Word, had to suffer so much for a full year. But Dr. Truett had a secret. His faith in the Lord and in the goodness of God was gigantic. He repeated many times that which he preached so often, “Not my will, but Thine be done.” In that faith and in that yielded submissiveness, the great pastor died.

      That is what it is to be a Christian. Anyone can sing songs and be happy when all is well. But what happens when the dark day comes, when the valley stretches endlessly ahead, when illness racks, and when the bed is itself an affliction? That is when we glorify God, singing songs in the night, trusting in the goodness of the Lord. We take it to God in prayer, and ask the pastor and people who believe in the Lord to pray. We use every means God has given us—the doctor, the pharmacist, the hospital—then having prayed, having done all that we know how to do, yielded, submissive, we leave the final verdict in God’s hands. If it is God’s will that we live, may we praise the Lord in the gift of days. If it is God’s will that our lives be closed like a book and the last chapter be written, then may we have the faith to believe that God will heal us over there.”

      Grumbling about our circumstances will not solve them.

    • Son on February 1, 2019 at 12:17 pm

      Marko, church is a place to worship and attend to our desire to be with Jesus (“when two or three are gathered in my name, I am there also”). Personally, I can’t think of any other reason to go to church.
      Have you tried internet dating sites? That is the modern way to gradually become friends with a woman who may turn out to be more than a friend, once she is comfortable enough with you to take the next step in the relationship. There are plenty of lonely women who seek a man’s companionship. There are also a lot of freaky guys out there, any woman will tell you, so it’s not always easy to “break the ice”. Moreover, if God wants you to be with a woman, He will provide for you. Try trusting Him for it.
      Also, be careful what you wish for, my friend. Some women you don’t even want to mess with, regardless of looks.
      No one ever said life was gonna be easy, my friend. At least, we have God’s promise of a perfect eternity in Paradise, thanks to Jesus. What would we do without Him? We’d be royally screwed! “Life’s a bitch and then you die,” right? Praise Jesus!
      At the risk of dating myself, I’m afraid I’m sounding like “Dear Abby” here, but hopefully I’ve helped..
      Wishing you best of luck with the women and blessing from God.

      Dave

  15. Evangeline on January 31, 2019 at 1:43 am

    Beautiful! Thank you!
    Re-affirmation of some things helps.

    • Josh on January 31, 2019 at 12:32 pm

      People are completely batshit crazy. See proof below.

      • fessdo on January 31, 2019 at 1:08 pm

        John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. The only way to the Father is through me.

  16. Mansha on January 23, 2019 at 2:23 am

    Believe in Holy Spirit! the church as the body of Christ made up of believers in Jesus Christ, the communion of the saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.

    • fessdo on January 24, 2019 at 8:15 am

      Dave,
      I thank you for helping me to get back right with God. This shows that a person can almost know the bible from cover to cover and still allow sin to beset them (Hebrews 12:1). As I read your words the Holy Spirit flooded my mind with the love that God wanted me to show to others as He had shown toward me. Then the evil one started condemning me for missing the mark but I quickly repented to God, confessed my sin and got my life back in the Spirit.
      Romans 8:34 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
      Who can say that God’s people are guilty? No one! Christ Jesus died for us, but that is not all. He was also raised from death. And now he is at God’s right side, speaking to him for us.
      and for good measure I read one more for the devil

      Romans 8:1-3 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
      So now anyone who is in Christ Jesus is not judged guilty. That is because in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit that brings life made you free. It made you free from the law that brings sin and death. The law was without power because it was made weak by our sinful selves. But God did what the law could not do: He sent his own Son to earth with the same human life that everyone else uses for sin. God sent him to be an offering to pay for sin. So God used a human life to destroy sin.

      Dave I ask you and others here to forgive me and I thank everyone for their support.

      Fessdo.

      • Stu on January 24, 2019 at 9:20 am

        Pretty humbling to ask for forgiveness, publicly. I once shared that if someone were to ask me only for forgiveness, I would say no, unless I were to ask him for forgiveness as well; we are both sinners. God loves to exalt the humble. 🙂

        • Son on January 24, 2019 at 1:50 pm

          Amen, brother Stu.
          Phillipians 2:3
          “Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.”
          Romans 12:16
          “Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.”
          James 4:10
          “Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”

          God’s Peace and Grace to you.

          Dave

      • Son on January 24, 2019 at 12:51 pm

        Fessdo, I have nothing to forgive you for, my brother. You have set me straight on a number of occasions on issues regarding my relationship with Jesus.
        Revelation 12:11
        “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

        His Peace to you, brother Fessdo!

        Dave

      • Katie on January 24, 2019 at 11:07 pm

        Honestly, Fessdo, I commend you for allowing God to always humble you! When we ask God for forgiveness He will forgive us remember that. And I can relate to you in this, asking God for forgiveness cuz I’m a sinner. Also remember God has forgiven you if you are in Christ and will remember your sins no more. I too need to remind myself of this truth and promise.

      • Son on January 25, 2019 at 12:41 pm

        Fessdo, you evidently have a music background and enjoy music so I’m turning you on to a beautiful hymn that glorifies Jesus: “OVERCOME” by Jeremy Camp. Google it and listen on YouTube.

        With His Blessing, my brother.

        Dave

        • Son on January 25, 2019 at 12:49 pm

          REVELATION 12:11
          “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

          • fessdo on January 26, 2019 at 9:00 am

            Dave,
            Thanks for your kindness but like Moses I’ve fled to the wilderness for a season.
            Fessdo



          • Son on January 26, 2019 at 11:32 am

            Mind if I join you, ole buddy?

            Dave



          • Son on January 26, 2019 at 11:33 am

            Guess I’ll see you here, there or in the air.



    • jane adams on January 29, 2019 at 9:02 pm

      ugh i couldn’t even get all the way through your very predictable and christian rhetoric. you are beyond conditioned to think the way that you do and how naive of you to think that god would create you with such simplicity. child, please challenge yourself more than status quo and understand that no matter what you write or think or believe, that’s all it is…an opinion… because last time i checked, none of us, know what the facts are. that is the only fact in this whole garbage! have a good one.. or blessings, or whatever you need to read to feel safe…

      • fessdo on January 29, 2019 at 9:22 pm

        jane adams,
        Facts vs Faith?
        Jane which is your choose?

        • Son on January 30, 2019 at 12:01 am

          Brother Fessdo, stay in the wilderness. There is nothing but evil here anymore. I’m finished here.

          Your bro Dave

          • fessdo on January 30, 2019 at 9:01 pm

            Dave,
            I tried real hard to stay away but when the Holy Ghost wakes you at 3am with the words of Hebrews 11:1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
            “Faith is what makes real the things we hope for. It is proof of what we cannot see”
            then I know I’m own the right track. When jane adams stated “know what the facts are. that is the only fact in this whole garbage!”
            Jane is looking for facts and logic but to see Jesus it must be by faith not facts. Hebrews 11:6 King James Version (KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
            Jane is putting her hope in what she can see, smell, taste, feel. Hebrews 11:1 King James Version (KJV) “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen”
            But God’s way isn’t the world’s way and we know who’s the prince of this world.
            Ephesians 2:2 King James Version (KJV) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
            God wants Jane to walk by faith not by sight and He’s using me to tell her, I hope she will cause I need my sleep.



    • I am on January 30, 2019 at 10:48 pm

      Do none of you read between the lines im just shaking my head at this. Christines ste to blame for the Christian crusades and all witch hunts

      • fessdo on January 30, 2019 at 11:29 pm

        I am,
        Here’s what I read between
        line1.
        line2.
        line3.
        line4.
        line5.
        line6.
        line7.
        line8.
        line9.
        and guess what’s between line 10.

        Wow between the lines says so much.

        • Son on January 31, 2019 at 12:39 am

          There are many things in the world that are difficult, if not impossible to explain. How about the Spanish Inquisition, while you’re on the subject of anomalies with the Christian Faith? I don’t understand it all, the many things, the sharks, birth defects, etc., etc. but God told me what I needed to hear. I hope this can be of help to those of you who question and don’t understand, in the same way that I felt confused:
          John 20″29
          “Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
          We, who are saved by Grace through The Holy Will of God in Jesus, His Only Begotten Son and our Savior,
          are given Faith to believe that God has a reason for everything that has happened, happens and will happen.
          That is the ENTIRE ISSUE here: FAITH.
          Ephesians 2:8
          “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God”
          Truth here, brethren.

      • Son on January 31, 2019 at 12:23 am

        Fessdo, my dear bro, how many scriptures tell us that only God can save somebody. I’m sure you are familiar with them. You can talk until your blue in the face, but The Truth remains the same: God has pre-elected us unto salvation..
        Remember when I told you about, “Night has fallen, Lewis.”? He decided upon the Elect (and The Lost) from before the beginning.
        2 Timothy 1:9
        “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.”
        John 15:16
        “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain”
        John 6″44
        “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
        Pity them who are not on “The List”. Some of them truly wish to be saved, but they are bound in their misguided deal.
        And, ALWAYS remember to be grateful and humble, because HIS GIFT to you is that you are on “The List”. All thanks to Jesus, who is our Lord, Savior and Inseparable Brother.
        2 Peter 2:12
        “But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption”
        Never forget our authority over evil, given to us by GOD:
        Revelation 12:11
        ” And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

        Much love and respect for you, my brother.

        Your bro Dave

        • fessdo on January 31, 2019 at 9:01 am

          Dave,
          Old Billy Graham wasted a lot of words then? I’ll tell you a little secret, when I answer these people who are allowing satan to speak thru them I try to throw in the name Jesus as much as possible. I think Jesus should have at lest equal air time here. I will confess years ago my focus was on getting everyone saved but now my focus is on Jesus. But you never know some sinner that God has been working on to get born again may read what I wrote and use that as a confirmation. If God can use a dumb donkey to talk to somebody then maybe He can use an old back woods American boy.
          Numbers 22:28 Easy-to-Read Version Then the Lord caused the donkey to speak. The donkey said to Balaam, “Why are you angry at me? What have I done to you? You have hit me three times!”

          • Son on January 31, 2019 at 12:42 pm

            Fessdo, ole pal, I hope you’re not calling me and Billy Graham donkeys. lol
            What man can know the mind of God? If you feel as though you are making a difference and pleasing God with your contributions here, God bless you. You have certainly given me some valuable insights. God’s Will is done.
            Night has fallen, Fessdo, and there’s nothing we can do about it. You’re either on The List or not. mho, fwiw

            Your friend and brother Dave



  17. talitha cumi on January 23, 2019 at 12:35 am

    FESSDO: A silly screen name for a very arrogant and psychotic blogger on here who targets women with insults. He can’t debate; all he can do is revile and accuse the godly of being ungodly. He has a very high opinion of himself (“I have a good heart”, he writes in one post). May God the Lord have mercy on this man’s dark soul. BTW if you are seeking intelligent repartee on this blog, move on. There is very, very little worth reading.

    • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 8:17 am

      talitha cumi,
      What can wash away your sins?
      Nothing but the blood of Jesus.

      • Jesus's Boyfriend on January 28, 2019 at 4:13 pm

        Do you expect someone to drink his blood? When, in fact, they could be drinking other things of his 😉 <3 For that would not be sinning, it would be Acceptance. Accept the love for Jesus your thirst has. He will quench it and save you.

    • Son on January 23, 2019 at 2:25 pm

      Who is “seeking intelligent repartee on this blog”, Talitha? Speaking personally, I am seeking to grow in The Spirit of Jesus Christ. That is why I am here and, I believe, what we should all be doing here.
      1 Corinthians 13
      “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
      Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
      Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
      But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”

      I ask you, Lord Jesus, to bless my sister Talitha with your spirit of Charity toward her brethren.

      With His Love, my sister.

      Dave

  18. talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 7:50 pm

    CAVEAT EMPTOR: There is a man on here by the name of ‘Fessdo’ who makes rude and inappropriate comments to people. He accused me of being a child of the devil. He has written rude things to others but that comment to me takes the cake. I guess he projects his own insecurities and spiritual issues on others, but he should not be tolerated.

    • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 8:46 pm

      Talitha,
      Galatians 4:16 King James Version (KJV)
      Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

    • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 9:00 pm

      Talitha,
      Luke 13:32 Easy-to-Read Version
      Jesus said to them, “Go tell that fox, ‘Today and tomorrow I am forcing demons out of people and finishing my work of healing. Then, the next day, the work will be finished.’

      Is calling someone “a fox” rude?

      • talitha cumi on January 23, 2019 at 12:10 am

        You’re a troll and you need to really be careful how you handle the Word because you are also an heretic. Don’t bother writing distorted scripture in my direction, ignoramus. And, you compare your stupid post re: Herod to the words of Jesus Christ? What arrogant blasphemy. You targeted me because I am educated and know how to present my case, whatever the case may be. I picture you as a drunk; unattractive, slovenly, disrespectful, lower spectrum intellectually, not saved by Christ, and an accuser of the brethren. You’re probably on the internet all day because you don’t work. How much porn do you watch? You don’t really like women, especially smart ones.
        You started it up with the blogger named Koo also; a horrible comment about cremation. I am going to report you to the webmaster. LOL! You DO need a kindergarten easy to read baby bible because you are unable to comprehend the King’s English!

        • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 8:09 am

          taliha?
          Good morning hun, I think I’m in love here I just love a gal you don’t hold back with what she says. I have had people cuss, spit, and even swing at me when I say the word Jesus, there’s something about that name the makes devil filled people go off. I can always tell a Christian by the way they handle an insult. People who are born again are dead in Christ
          (Colossians 3:2-4 Living Bible 2. Let heaven fill your thoughts; don’t spend your time worrying about things down here. 3. You should have as little desire for this world as a dead person does. Your real life is in heaven with Christ and God. 4. And when Christ who is our real life comes back again, you will shine with him and share in all his glories.)
          so Tal you can not insult a dead person. I beg you read about Jesus, study about Jesus, ask Jesus to come into you heart and be saved. If you need some pointers here don’t be a shamed to ask we all are ignorant about something .
          Have a nice day,
          Fessdo

          • Goldie on January 23, 2019 at 4:55 pm

            @Fudso:
            “People who are born again are dead in Christ”…..HUH? WHAT? You actually write crap like this and expect true Christians to swallow it…..unbelievable! People who are born again are dead to SIN, not Christ! We who are born-again are made spiritually ALIVE by the regeneration of the indwelling Holy Ghost. I won’t call you ‘brother’, that would be a mistake. Get a life, you and ‘Son’. I think you’re both the same person. Sound doctrine is evidently not your forte, lol. Waste case! After reading your comments (I could only stomach 30 or so of them) I have to agree that you need to be kicked off here. Doesn’t Carey look at his blogs? He should so he will see that you hang onto this forum because, like the other lady said, you’re a troll and cause dissension.



          • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 5:37 pm

            Goldie,
            I’m sure you have swallow more than this in your life, just how big of a gal are you, hope you can take it?

            Fessdo



          • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 5:52 pm

            Goldie,
            I’m betting you real educated like taliha if so there is where the problem is. It very difficult for a well educated person to understand the trinity and I haven’t the time to explain it to you. God, Holy ghost, Jesus = same.
            Colossians 3:2-4 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
            2 And set your minds and keep them set on what is above (the higher things), not on the things that are on the earth.
            3 For [as far as this world is concerned] you have died, and your [new, real] life is hidden with Christ in God.
            4 When Christ, Who is our life, appears, then you also will appear with Him in [the splendor of His] glory.

            Bottom line Goldie get born again!!! Jesus is waiting,
            Praise the name of JESUS



          • Son on January 23, 2019 at 6:15 pm

            Fessdo, turn the other cheek. Remember, this ain’t the Jerry Springer show, yet.
            Matthew 5:44
            “But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you”
            Romans 12:14-21
            “Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
            Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
            Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
            Ephesians 6:11-19
            “Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
            And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel”

            Dave



          • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 6:23 pm

            Dave,
            Thanks, sometimes it can be pain staking to let them that have let satan use, them to be shown who is running (or ruining)their life. Sometimes you have to call a fox a fox. But in the end Jesus the name above ever name wins.



          • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 6:26 pm

            Dave,
            Have you noticed that this blog is so quiet till the name of Jesus is mentioned?



          • Son on January 23, 2019 at 6:38 pm

            But, Fessdo, I thought this blog was all ABOUT JESUS! Am I missing something here?



          • Son on January 23, 2019 at 6:44 pm

            Fessdo,
            1 Peter 5:8
            “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour”

            Your bro Dave



          • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 6:49 pm

            Dave,
            Your right it is all about Jesus but if you notice the gripers, complainers, and the poor poor me people hardy ever mention Jesus and if you tell them Jesus is their answer then the beast come out. It’s like satan’s hold on them to keep then down and bitter don’t want to let go and immediately they go for the throat because they’re not in their right mind, they don’t have the mind of Christ but the mind of the devil.



          • Son on January 23, 2019 at 7:19 pm

            Dear, true brother Fessdo, the best indication that Jesus is present is that there is love, His Love, in the message.
            John 13:35
            ‘”By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.”
            1 Corinthians 13:4-7
            “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.”

            Stay blessed, bro.

            Dave



          • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 9:24 pm

            Dave,
            You have a loving spirit like the disciple John who was known as the disciple of love, me on the other hand lean more toward Peter with the sword. It would be nice but not all people can be helped and most of the time I can quickly tell the one that fall into that category (koo Talitha). Here are 10 kinds of people I have identified who are so entrenched in certain habit patterns that you cannot help them advance to the next level unless they make the necessary shift in their attitude or behavior.
            1. Those who do not take responsibility for themselves
            The first step towards self-improvement is to remove all excuses for mediocrity or failure. Those that continually blame other people for their failures will never go to the next level. Leaders can complain about their spouses, the income level of their congregations, the lack of staff or any other issue, but I have learned that within every challenge is the seed of opportunity for success which requires the creativity of problem solving.
            2. Those who do not have a heart to seek God
            The Bible teaches us that “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” (Prov. 9:10). Those who do not respect God enough to seek Him and study His Word so they can make wise decisions in life are violating Scripture (Josh. 1:8-9) and cannot be helped either by myself or any other leader or minister. Those who do not obey what God requires for success have decided to try to be successful in life without God’s blessings!
            3. Those who create distance so they are not accountable
            There are certain people I have met in our church who only let others get so close before cutting off the relationship. Many go from one church to the next because they fear becoming too close to a leader who will hold them accountable. Often some will attempt to attend a megachurch where they will be able to hear the Word of God in the context of a large crowd so that no one will really know who they are. Whether it is fear or rebellion, those who live like this have put a low ceiling on their lives and will not grow past the infant stage concerning their potential in life.
            4. Those who insist on having a negative outlook on life
            There are some people who refuse to exercise faith in God or think positively as the Word of God commands us in Philippians 4:8. This is because some have a propensity to expect the worst in life so they are never disappointed by anyone or anything! This is a weird way some folks attempt to shield their emotions from the pain of disappointment; it is a very common practice with many people. Jesus often told people that they would receive according to how they believed (for example, Matt. 8:13). Proverbs 23:7 teaches that as a person thinks in their heart so they will be. I cannot empower a person who refuses to think God’s thoughts about themselves and about life.
            5. Those who refuse to have a vision for their future
            There are many very talented and anointed people I have been in relationship with who live their lives without any strategic plan or vision for their future. They are just living from day-to-day to prepare for their retirement. Those who are successful have a compelling vision that drives them daily and which feeds their souls even more than the desire to make money! Inside of every believer is a God-given kingdom vision for their future. If a person refuses to tap into that as their guiding light—and value that vision as their barometer for success—then my continual pep talks will not do the trick either!
            6. Those who live in self-deception
            There are many people who are living lives of denial regarding their relationships with God and their families and all things regarding their inner and outer lives. The sad thing is that denial is the first step to outright deception in which a person concocts an alternate, false reality that continually feeds their mind and emotions the things they want to hear about themselves and their key relationships. This insulates them from the word of the Lord from others and the Holy Spirit. When you confront people like this they become upset and blame you for not understanding them or for wrongfully accusing them of something. These are the people I cannot help unless God steps in and delivers them from satanic deception (read 2 Tim. 2:23-25).
            7. Those who do not want to pay the price for success
            There are many in the church who want the perks of success but don’t want to pay the price for success.
            When I was a teenager I had a goal of becoming a master guitar player. For seven years I practiced the guitar for 3-8 hours per day as well as playing in numerous bands. While my friends were outside playing ball or wasting time doing drugs I would shut myself up in my house and study jazz, rock, blues, classical and more, and spend hours doing scales on my guitar (which I often did even while watching television). Because of this sacrifice I gained mastery over my instrument in various kinds of music and was in high demand as a musician.
            Whatever we do in life, we are called to sacrifice our time, invest our talents, and be committed to a long, grueling process with many setbacks until we reach our peak performance. This kind of sacrifice is needed in every area we desire success in including our marriages, relationships with our children, leading a company or a church, etc.
            Consequently, I have found that I am not able to empower a person to the fullness of their destiny if they don’t want to work hard at self-improvement.
            8. Those whose primary agenda is individualistic and not kingdom-oriented
            There are some people whose only agenda in life is to advance their own agenda. They don’t want to work with a team or flow in the context of a local church. They want me to pour my life into them but they are rarely ever willing to pour back into the church and serve in the Kingdom of God. I have learned that those who only want to use the church or God to advance their own agendas (even if it is ministry related) have greatly limited their own lives. Thus, I back away from these people until they change. This is because we are all called to seek first God’s kingdom in which we need to die to our individualistic sense of destiny and sacrifice and invest our time for the good of the body of Christ. This in turn will do more to release our greatest destiny—even more than if we only concentrate on our own agendas!
            9. Those who refuse to keep covenant
            I have been with very talented individuals with great calling on their lives who I had to back away from because they did not know how to remain faithful to their obligations or because they broke confidence by continually talking behind other people’s backs. God says that a person who doesn’t keep their word (whatever the cost) and who slanders their neighbor cannot dwell in His tents (Ps. 15:3-4) so who am I to think that this kind of person can dwell in my inner circle for personal development!
            10. Those who lack transparency, humility and integrity
            The Bible teaches us to walk in the light as He is in the light (1 John 1:7). It also teaches us to confess our faults to one another and pray for one another that we may be healed (James 5:16). Those who do not admit their faults and confess their sins cannot have the kind of relationship with a mentor suitable for personal growth. It is important for me to have a transparent relationship with those I am mentoring since a person who conceals their sins from me is not giving me a chance to fully speak into their life and help them in their areas of weakness. Those who want to progress in their spiritual formation have to learn to practice the spiritual discipline of confession of sin (Prov. 28:13).



          • Son on January 24, 2019 at 12:07 am

            Fessdo, I was ready to leave this forum. I stayed only because Jesus, through my brethren such as you and Stu, for example, exhorted me to stay to try to share my love of Jesus and my testimony for Him. When I speak here, it is through the prompting of Jesus, me trying to see things through His eyes and think as though in His mind. I agree with you that there are forces representing the anti-Christ at work here. My only response has been limited to saying the things that I believe Jesus wants me to say and so I try to speak through His Spirit when I comment on this thread. I do not condemn you, not in any way, for your responses to those who would demean you and your witness. I know one thing, though: Jesus is The Spirit of Love/Charity and I do my best to honor Him and follow Him. The only thing I have to offer my brethren is the Love that Jesus has demonstrated toward me, towardr you, toward every human being who lives or has lived.. Hopefully, that will translate into our brethren seeing The Truth that stands behind His manifested love.
            Please don’t get me wrong. I’m no saint, and I certainly have my weaknesses. I am fully aware that I, as is the case with every person, have sinned and fallen short of The Glory of God. I’m doing my best to emulate Jesus in my view and my thinking, that I might please HIM. I am not about pleasing men.
            Galatians 1:10
            “For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.”
            1 Peter 4:8
            “And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.”
            Revelation 2:17
            “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.”

            My brethren who worship and adore our blessed, precious Lord Jesus, strive to be humble and be grateful to Him, for through HIS SUFFERING AND DEATH, we live instead of perish.

            Your bro in Jesus,

            Dave

            .



  19. Robert on January 22, 2019 at 12:35 am

    This is one example of my church related or church leader related bad experience/s. I bought a business from john westfal he was a student at bbc college in springfield mo. He wanted to sell his business so bad that he was willing to lie to the bank to force my loan to go through. (I have more details and a tape recorded confession from john ) after a few months the business was repossessed because of johns lies. This left a fellow Christian (me) without transportation and basically no income. I am still faced with paying a dept of over 25 thousand dollars from 2006 to current. I guess my point is…. We are people no matter the title we have and my bad experience was because of a man and even though he is now head pastor of a church near greenbush newyork i cant justify not going to church and i cant blame God for johns actions. We should stand tall and continue as loving God fearing Christians meeting together even if it seems dificult to do. I have mixed emotions about organized religion but i will never doubt the power of fellowship among believers. I find it to be more edifying to keep my eyes open foe Gods apointed visits whether it be with christian fellowship or to be used as a vessel to deliver a message to the lost and this rarely ever happened behind the walls of a so called church. To many churches today are focused primarily on high attendance mostly for the larger amounts of money in an offering plate. I was invited to a nearby church but before i went found that one of the things they asked for upon making you a member was your full financial history. What? When has that ever been a requirement? Are they saying only financially sound people are capable of true worship?? This is also a huge problem that will turn non believers and new believers away from a ” place of worship ” . anyone struggling with this issue should keep in mind God wants your heart…not your wallet…although He has asked us to give to Him with a cheerful heart. He asked us to do this not because Hes broke and needs us to pay His way but to see if we trust Him and can be faithful to Him no matter were we are financially. I would be enclined to speak anywhere in the united states as long as safety messures have been taken and will deliver a message to the “church” of today in hopes to change the focus from money back to souls. I am not a great person and have not lived the best life and am now disabled and life has become even more dificult. My faith no doubt has been tested and no matter what i do, think, or say i always know He is there. If i dare i would like to say one more thing… How many denominations are there? How many of them preach the same thing? How many of them childishly criticize other denominations? Why do denominational differences create divisions in the body of believers? Is the body of christ singular or plural? ONE GOD! ONE SAVIOR! ONE BELIEF!

    • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 8:55 am

      Robert,
      Your comment really spoke to me this morning, it’s good to know I’m not the only sucker in this world. Funny but I never ever would have thought how trying to help the church years ago could effect my life so negatively years later. Like you I had a good heart and good intentions but we are the kind of people greedy leaders thrive on. I now know what Jesus was talking about when He said “there’s none good” and that includes me. It did help me cause when I stopped trying to show people my goodness and started showing them Jesus and His goodness their came a peace that passed all understanding over me. I no longer have to work on showing people how good Fessdo is I just have to show them Jesus and what he has done for them.
      With this knowledge of people it’s fun to mess with their greedy minds, the more greedier the more fun. I have years or experience in car repair and everyone has car problems, so when I go to a new church the first thing many will ask is “what you do for a living”. Knowing people I say I repair cars and it never fails they will say “good I know where to bring my car when it needs repair” I smile real big then I say I appreciate that and I love working on Christians cars cause they want to be like Christ and be blessing and want to help out a fellow Christian, so I’ll just charge you $85hr instead of my usual $75hr I know you want to bless me. But they never smile back they just walk off????

      • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 7:38 pm

        Look here Fessdo, I never addressed you or your posts because your comments are ignorant and foul. You said I’m acting like my father the devil. Wow. You have lots more nerve than I do, writing such to someone you know nothing about. Maybe you committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by writing that. Go see where Jesus mentions that unpardonable sin. He was accused of doing His miracles by the power of Satan. What you wrote about me is basically along the same line of thought. I am filled with the Holy Spirit and my father is not the devil. I feel pity for you. Don’t bother to reply. Guys like you are another reason I run from ‘church’…….no better than creepy bar-flies. You need to be reported to the webmaster.

        • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 8:39 pm

          Talitha,
          According to Jesus, the unpardonable or unforgivable sin is unique. It is the one iniquity that will never be forgiven (“never” is the meaning of “either in this age or in the age to come” in Matthew 12:32). The unforgivable sin is blasphemy (“defiant irreverence”) of the Holy Spirit in the context of the Spirit’s work in the world through Christ. In other words, the particular case of blasphemy seen in Matthew 12 and Mark 3 is unique. The guilty party, a group of Pharisees, had witnessed irrefutable evidence that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, yet they claimed that He was possessed by the prince of demons, Beelzebul (Matthew 12:24; Mark 3:30).

          The Jewish leaders of Jesus’ day committed the unpardonable sin by accusing Jesus Christ (in person, on earth) of being demon-possessed. They had no excuse for such an action. They were not speaking out of ignorance or misunderstanding. The Pharisees knew that Jesus was the Messiah sent by God to save Israel. They knew the prophecies were being fulfilled. They saw Jesus’ wonderful works, and they heard His clear presentation of truth. Yet they deliberately chose to deny the truth and slander the Holy Spirit. Standing before the Light of the World, bathed in His glory, they defiantly closed their eyes and became willfully blind. Jesus pronounced that sin to be unforgivable.

          The blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, specific as it was to the Pharisees’ situation, cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth, and no one can personally see Jesus perform a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit. The only unpardonable sin today is that of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in his rejection of Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in the world, convicting the unsaved of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8). If a person resists that conviction and remains unrepentant, then he is choosing hell over heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6), and the object of faith is Jesus (Acts 16:31). There is no forgiveness for someone who dies without faith in Christ.

          God has provided for our salvation in His Son (John 3:16). Forgiveness is found exclusively in Jesus (John 14:6). To reject the only Savior is to be left with no means of salvation; to reject the only pardon is, obviously, unpardonable.

          Many people fear they have committed some sin that God cannot or will not forgive, and they feel there is no hope for them, no matter what they do. Satan would like nothing more than to keep people laboring under that misconception. God gives encouragement to the sinner who is convicted of his sin: “Come near to God and he will come near to you” (James 4:8). “Where sin increased, grace increased all the more” (Romans 5:20). And the testimony of Paul is proof positive that God can and will save anyone who comes to Him in faith (1 Timothy 1:12–17). If you are suffering under a load of guilt today, rest assured that you have not committed the unpardonable sin. God is waiting with open arms. Jesus’ promise is that “he is able to save completely those who come to God through him” (Hebrews 7:25). Our Lord will never fail. “Surely God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid. The LORD, the LORD himself, is my strength and my defense; he has become my salvation” (Isaiah 12:2).

          • talitha cumi on January 23, 2019 at 12:22 am

            Wow, what an impressive exposition of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit! You are indeed a crafty little thing; at once nasty and rude, then you turn into Charles Spurgeon. That sin can still be committed today. Satanists commit it all day long, ya think?
            By saying that my father is the devil, you are calling a born again, Holy Spirit filled Christian a child of the devil. In other words, you are saying that I am devil-filled, not Spirit filled. Same thing they accused Christ of doing/being. Is it the fact that I am an Hebrew that got your goat? Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit! Guilty as charged! You know NOTHING about me and none of my posts offended anyone but YOU. Anyone can cut/paste a load of Scripture and throw it up on this forum. You seem very lost and to be pitied…



          • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 8:24 am

            talitha cumi,
            What can make you whole again?
            Nothing but the blood of Jesus.



          • Son on January 23, 2019 at 1:37 pm

            Amen, true brother Fessdo. Well said.

            Dave



          • Son on January 23, 2019 at 1:43 pm

            Matthew 5:38-39
            “Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”

            God’s Peace to my brethren.

            Dave



    • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 3:32 pm

      Sir, your comments are good. Never forget that we are now in the age of apostasy that Christ Himself warned us to discern. I have also had highly placed church leaders do abominable things to me. I didn’t blame the Lord but I was soundly turned off. Also, when so-called believers look at me as if I’m some ‘new thing’ because I’m an Hebrew Christian, this is disturbing. Are they not aware that Christ was the FIRST Hebrew Christian? Come on here! The geschtalt of the church scene is getting worse, not better. Would I love to fellowship with like minded believers? Yes! However, it seems that no two Christians can agree on any one thing when they gather! I tried Hebrew Christian fellowships and found they were Judaising the faith back to Mosaic Law. How confusing. I am reading from Genesis straight through to Revelation at this point in my trusty King James Bible and see amazing truths from His great and glorious counsel. I miss making friends at church, as I did back in the 70s. It’s difficult for me to make friends in church now. It’s become entirely too worldly and everyone wants to argue. I prefer to debate. But I digress. Christ warned us of the coming end times apostasy, so no real believer should be the least surprised. Give no place to the devil and persevere no matter what. Maranatha

      • koo on January 22, 2019 at 4:03 pm

        Both sides of my family made cemetaries for family & community. Both ended up in the hands of church & extended family. Both ended up causing heartbreak to family because suddenly we weren’t pure enough to be in our own family cemetary. So what if someone switched from Lutheran to Catholic? So once apon a time I was wealthy, having 2 places to rest. Our plots were sold to people who were “pure” enough & we never received restitution so that we might go elsewhere & the only way we will ever get answers is if we go the attorney route which of course we aren’t going to do. Now those family who have stayed in the area & stayed with the church refuse to even talk to us. They know we want our family plots. They chose church over blood so now we also have no family because a small piece of land & money & their church that preaches hate of other denominations of Christianity is most important – plus that guilty concience. So from my perspective churches preach & practice just as much hate as they do love. They have sure done a number on my family from both sides. Fessdo I have to admit you R funny but right – always notice that Christian rental cost more but Christian work pays less – forced poverty vs voluntary vow of.

        • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 4:56 pm

          koo,
          You ever heard of cremation, as bitter as you are you’ll go real quick.

          • koo on January 23, 2019 at 9:08 am

            I am giving reasons why people don’t go to church & you are yet another reason.



          • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 9:19 am

            koo,
            Psalm 64:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
            2 Hide me from the secret counsel of the wicked; from the insurrection of the workers of iniquity:
            3 Who whet their tongue like a sword, and bend their bows to shoot their arrows, even bitter words:
            4 That they may shoot in secret at the perfect: suddenly do they shoot at him, and fear not.
            Thanks to Jesus I fear no evil.



          • Son on January 23, 2019 at 1:06 pm

            Funny how “one man’s meat is another’s poison.” People like Fessdo are THE REASON I go to church.
            I imagine that some react to Fessdo the way some reacted to the words of Jesus, all those years ago.



          • koo on January 23, 2019 at 2:15 pm

            Church sanctioned property theft, destruction of family ties & refusal to use their own Book to resolve the issues They created (cause they won’t even own up to what they did) is a valid reason why many of us no longer trust churches. I fail to understand any relevant meaning to above stated facts except maybe you are inciting me to take it to the court of the land? Suuuuurre.



          • fessdo on January 23, 2019 at 2:40 pm

            koo,
            There is never a valid reason to not forgive someone.
            Matthew 18:21-25 The Message (MSG)
            A Story About Forgiveness
            21 At that point Peter got up the nerve to ask, “Master, how many times do I forgive a brother or sister who hurts me? Seven?”
            22 Jesus replied, “Seven! Hardly. Try seventy times seven.

            koo how close are you to the 4900?
            Also why does it bother you what someone does to you?



      • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 4:52 pm

        Talitha,
        Who pissed in your toasties this morning, or are you acting like your father the devil?

        • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 7:54 pm

          CAVEAT EMPTOR: There is a man on here by the name of ‘Fessdo’ who makes rude and inappropriate comments to people. He accused me of being a child of the devil. He has written rude things to others but that comment to me takes the cake. I guess he projects his own insecurities and spiritual issues on others, but he should not be tolerated.

          • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 8:26 pm

            “let the buyer beware” You funny, oh one more thing ” get thee behind me talitha in the name of Jesus”



          • Son on January 23, 2019 at 1:20 pm

            Matthew 7:3-5
            “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”

            God bless you, Talitha.

            Dave



  20. Billy on January 21, 2019 at 5:48 pm

    “God is love.” So you are saved by having faith in Love which leads to loving. Its that simple regardless of your church. Otherwise billions will go to hell, and God desires NONE to go to hell. KIS–Keep it simple because man is simple minded–which is why there are so many faiths & wrong opinions. Man makes a mess out of everything under the sun.

    • fessdo on January 21, 2019 at 5:56 pm

      Wild Bill,
      Don’t leave out Jesus.
      John 14:6 King James Version Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 3:42 pm

      Billy, your comment is misguided. We are saved by grace through faith. God is love but He is also a consuming fire. Never forget that. God desires none to go to hell yet they will go because, well, just read the Parable of the Tares and the Wheat in the KJB. Christ really explains it so much better than I can. Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, is really His child. Go ahead, read the parable. It’s never preached because it’s so PITHY.

  21. stung!!! on January 20, 2019 at 8:25 am

    Did anyone else hear the Fifth trumpet of God Almighty sound when oil wells were lit ablaze during “Operation Desert Storm”?
    During the Gulf War when all the oil wells were lit ablaze I was attacked by a demon on three separate occasions all at night. This is what happened. While I slept a demon flew through my window and attack me. The spirit inside me fought this demon briefly until I awoke. Then it made me take over. I leaped out of bed trying to defend myself. This demon was horrid and spun circles around me thrashing through my soul with its hands, then it left as fast as it came. The demon radiated from the pains associated with the abyss. He was like a coal pulled from the fire, with the pains of the abyss Rev 9, 3. This attack happened on three separate occasions as I have stated. all on separate nights during the time frame when the oil wells had been lit ablaze in the Middle East. The third time it attacked me however was different from the rest. As before the demon attacked me, but this time I had enough since to command it to leave in the name of Jesus Christ. What happened next is even more amazing. After commanding this demon to leave in the name of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit delivered me outside my bedroom into the hallway. The demon followed. We were brought into the presence of the Lord. The Demon stood to my left and grabbing my hand, it placed its tail on top of my left hand. It was the sting of the scorpion and it went like this. It sent waves of fire through my soul Rev 9, 10. The pain was so sever that I couldn’t scream. Unconditionally, I looked straight up and said “Father please help me”. The demon then left.
    This all happened after being seduced into trying transcendental meditation, which caused spiritual bondage to witchcraft / demonic forces. Maybe the spiritual bondage occurred after playing a Ouija board or Tarot cards as a young boy. I’m not quite sure. They appeared at that time just to be games, and were sold in the kids section at stores or at least the Ouija board was. I had a lot of spiritual warfare after participating in these so called “games”. What I am sure of is that prior to being attacked by this demon, I was forced to go through the Illuminati’s esoteric initiation performed through altered states of consciousness / transcendental meditation assisted with witchcraft / demonic forces. Why I say demonic forces is that I believe all witchcraft to be the powers of demons / the Devil. I was forced to go through said esoteric initiation through methods including witchcraft, demonology, and subversive acts of terrorism. The methods of witchcraft included mind control / manipulation, heart palpitations, witchcraft dreams causing sleep depravation, powerful visions, and many other forms. In said ceremony I was instructed to except the worship of one of their many “demonic gods”. They informed me that in excepting one of there gods I accepted them all. One of there gods was the Devil, another they named Jesus, but they appeared to have a demon for every occasion. They informed me through methods of telepathy , that in accepting the worship of one, I accepted them all. What better way to join all religions of the world together under one banner of 666 spiritually enslaving society?
    David Spengler of the United Nations says that all people must go through a esoteric initiation and worship Lucifer to enter the New Age of Enlightenment. Helen Blavatsky calls it a Christ like consciousness, universal mind set. Benjamin Cream states that after said initiation all its members will be able to hear ancient wisdom spoken telepathically at the same moment by ascended Masters. I knew nothing of this group at that time or there Luciferian agenda of a One World Government. Take a guess what method is used for this initiation? I bet you know now. Have you heard of the New Age Movement, or its affiliation with “Free” Masonry? Do you know what a unholy baptism is or the term Kundalini.
    To the best of my knowledge this is the method Satan’s Secret Society uses to distribute the “spiritual mark of the beast”, and cause spiritual captivity Revelation 13, 10. Have you received your spiritual stamp of acceptance? If so, did you take it on the forehead becoming a spiritual slave of evil, or on the right hand a servant of the Devil himself? Does this sound hard to believe? Here are a few scriptures giving in sight. Revelation 13, 10, If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity they will go . This is spiritual captivity to witchcraft / demonic forces. Naham 3, 4, who enslaved nations by her witchcraft. Revelation 18, 23, By your magic spell all nations were led astray. Hebrews 2:15 states by there fear of death they are held in bondage. Witchcraft / demonic powers are very real. Thank you Jesus for the Holy spirit and your Angels.
    There is a way out, but it has been difficult for me. Revelation 12, 11, Those who overcame, overcame by the blood of the lamb and the “word” of their testimony. They didn’t love their own lives so much as to shrink from death. Hebrews 2, 15, By their fear of death they are held in spiritual captivity / bondage. Satan’s “Secret” Society isn’t very secret anymore! It is like a giant octopus with many tentacles reaching far and wide.
    Here is the rest of the story. Three to four nights later the demon returned in the early am @ about 3am. He wasn’t alone, Satan / Apollyon and the demon’s twin brother was with him. They hovered in the air above the ground, before the olive tree in our back yard. I could see them as the spirit in me manifested them to me! Satan hovered in the middle while the demons were on either side of him. The demon on his left had been thrown into the lake of fire for what he did to me. He radiated like a coal pulled from the fire what seemed to be 15’x15′. He was lit up like a Christmas tree! Graciously yours baptized by fire the witness! Who will believe this testimony? God will be my witness! Located in California. Recommended information Fake truth Movement Exposed 1-12 on you tube. It has insight into who has received the spiritual stamp on there right hand.

    • fessdo on January 20, 2019 at 9:12 am

      Stung!!!
      I did hear something when the oil wells was lit but I had eat a large bowl of beans before going to bed and just figured by the smell it was something else?
      You said “Does this sound hard to believe” at first it did till I got to the end and read “Located in California”, this confirms what I’ve always heard, that California is full of Fruits, Flakes, and Nuts.
      Fessdo

  22. Sick of smug on January 15, 2019 at 8:35 pm

    Your tone in this post and the other one about leaders who leave the church is precisely why I’ve left and won’t come back. Get off your high horse and listen with empathy for once. If you wrote this for us to read and to get us to come back, you’re failing miserably. But if you wrote this to get pats on the back from self righteous smug “christians” like yourself then I say you’ve succeeded.

    • Randy on January 20, 2019 at 7:38 am

      A lot of truth on the comments– but if you give false testimony is that lying. If I stated someone said this and that and they didn’t say these things this would be false testimony, As Mathew, mark, Luke and John, gives, not real names to their books no one knows the names of the disclpes only Paul knew them but never meet them or Jesus. The people just wrote what they would it to say. M,m,l,j where not witness of Jesus ,No. If god wanted a book hell write and give it to you not false names etc,.

  23. rodney Butler on January 3, 2019 at 1:29 pm

    Jesus said your body is the church
    Jesus said forsake not the Gathering of yourselves together in worshipping him.
    If we would use each other’s house as a worshipping place the almighty buck 4 Fortune would stop in the church

    • Son on January 3, 2019 at 2:57 pm

      You mean, like they used to do it back in the days right after God walked the earth? GREAT IDEA!
      How about you host the first meeting at your house, brother Rodney?
      I don’t think it would go over to well in the neighborhood, here where I live, anyway.
      We can’t even get a cocktail party together.
      A church provides a central gathering place for Christians who live miles away from it, but are willing to drive there anyway.
      Home worship would be great, but I think it’s impractical.

      p.s. – I guess there wouldn’t be a collection plate in other people’s houses, huh? That would eliminate the profit motive.

      What are your thoughts on this, brother fessdo?

      • Stan the plumber man on January 20, 2019 at 3:31 am

        Home is ultimately where the HEART is. Maybe the heart of christ. Old days r family members were laid out in the living room on their passing. No better place to praise our father in the same place?

    • lori on January 5, 2019 at 3:18 pm

      I am done with church too. conventional church that is. Our church went strictly by the book and then we learned that When Jesus died on the cross the old covenant Church was done away with and the new covenant in Christ began. then our church went way over board and started keeping Christmas and Easter and Holloween and all those other Pagan holidays. I spelled Holloween with an o because there is not any of Christ in it. I believe in Jesus as my savior but I will not keep holidays infused with paganism in them . it’s like taking a pile of poop and decorating it up and then expecting God to eat it. Do you want to eat fancy decorated poop on a plate? neither would I and neither would I expect God to either.

      • Chris on January 9, 2019 at 12:32 pm

        Your example is very STUPID and really doesn’t work for this situation.

        • Linda Bailey on January 13, 2019 at 5:39 am

          That is very rude of you.

      • Stu on January 9, 2019 at 2:10 pm

        Hi Lori.

        I hope you are doing well. I wanted to respond to you because initially, when I came to this site, I expressed a dim view personally about my relationship with the church. Having read so many comments here, I saw an increasing amount of bitterness in too many of the letters I read. I had a lot of unforgiveness in my own heart because of how I related, or not, to church. But it has turned my attention to Christ and no longer to me, and I returned to persevere and overcome my own messiness being just another human being like the rest of us.

        I wanted to share what I came away with in Rev 2:18-29 (Please read it). I noticed something about what I may have considered to be the worst of the worst as far as churches go, but I paid attention to the following:
        “Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): Only hold on to what you have until I come.”

        He is speaking to the ones in Thyatira who are enduring the worst spewed by all of those who are displeasing to Christ. Notice not once does he imply or tell these saints to leave—but to endure, and to receive the reward Jesus had planned for them.

        I hope you will look past so much of the garbage we see in churches today. I recall a very famous Pastor who was to deliver a sermon on a holiday (standing room only). But he fell sick, and the Junior Pastor got up to take his place. When those in the congregation heard that the Senior Pastor was ill, many got up to leave. But just as quickly the Junior Pastor asked them the following question: “Did you only come to hear the Senior Pastor speak, or did you come to hear the Word of God”? All sat down. The point Lori, is that we do not come for ourselves. We come to worship God, and also to encourage, to relate to, to admonish, and to strengthen those in the church who are believers. When Jesus made himself to be the least, he was exalted by the Most High. Jesus loved and died for his people—the Church. He told us not to forsake the assembly of God as some have been in the habit of doing. He wants us to have relationships, not religion. It is our job to overcome what is lacking, by seeking wise counsel, by reading the Word of God, by praying, and by sharing with your brothers and sisters all good things you have learned. I hope you will reconsider your feelings.

        Blessings to you.
        Stu

        • Son on January 9, 2019 at 4:14 pm

          Nice comment, brother Stu, redolent with God’s love and holy spirit! Hopefully, Lori can relate to your obviously heartfelt exhortation.

          Your bro Dave

          • Stu on January 9, 2019 at 5:11 pm

            Thx Dave. I learned a new word too (redolent). God bless you.



          • Son on January 9, 2019 at 10:08 pm

            lol, I was an English major, Stu. Must have learned a new word myself there. You have been a blessed, positive brother in Jesus in all of my interactions with you here. God bless you and keep you strong in His Spirit, my beloved brother!

            Dave



          • Son on January 9, 2019 at 10:13 pm

            Ha ha, Stu, I was an English major. Something must have stuck from my education, I guess. You have been a blessed, supportive, positive agent of The Lord in all of our interactions here on this forum. God bless you and keep you strong in His Holy Spirit, dear brother, as we wait for His Return to bring us home.

            Dave



        • Stan the plumber man on January 20, 2019 at 3:01 am

          Omg. The thoughts and words of many have aided in my refocus on CHRIST. Gotta say WWJD. Hope I can keep that as my focus in life . We r a small part but together we can rise above all obstacles. Life bumps or hurdles. Nothing 4 a high stepper. My life as nd Tim ed on earth r small but I can h dr ll many if I decide 2. God help me 2 help many. Please!

      • Mark on January 14, 2019 at 6:40 pm

        This is the day that the lord has made we will rejoice and be glad in it psalms 118:24 . Everyday is Gods creation the devilor no one have authority !! God bless

        • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 6:57 pm

          Mark please tell me where you come up with this?

      • Stan the plumber man on January 20, 2019 at 3:41 am

        To call off all church activity is like saying I cant drive because I bought a Yugo. That was your choice.Christ is our guide in a truely good life. If we r followers and guides us we may be blessed. Hopefully. If not we still r blessed in life.

    • Marcie Conant on January 5, 2019 at 3:42 pm

      Recently left my church because my pastor made ageist comments from the pulpit last Sunday. I guess he thought he was being funny but I really don’t need to be entertained with stand up comedy when I’m trying to focus on Jesus. So I,m going to start attending a group Bible study with other Seniors. However, I recently had a pastor tell me that this is no REAL church because there is no communion, accountability from the pulpit or building up of the local church.

      • Son on January 6, 2019 at 8:21 am

        Why do you need to participate in communion at a church? Can’t you eat some bread and drink some wine in His Holy Name at home? Are you Catholic?
        Mark 7:8 “For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.”
        John 4:24 “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

        His Peace be upon you, dear sister.

        Dave

        • fessdo on January 6, 2019 at 8:48 am

          Dave,
          John 4:24 was a great answer, Jesus made it so plain there.
          John 4:21-24 Living Bible (TLB)
          21-24 Jesus replied, “The time is coming, ma’am, when we will no longer be concerned about whether to worship the Father here or in Jerusalem. For it’s not where we worship that counts, but how we worship—is our worship spiritual and real? Do we have the Holy Spirit’s help? For God is Spirit, and we must have his help to worship as we should. The Father wants this kind of worship from us. But you Samaritans know so little about him, worshiping blindly, while we Jews know all about him, for salvation comes to the world through the Jews.”

          Fessdo

          • Son on January 6, 2019 at 4:59 pm

            Well, well, folks, guess what? I left my church this morning, never to return (at least to this particular church). Turns out the issue was a woman pastor. Now, I realize today’s society in America is obsessed with the concept of political correctness, and it’s not pc to discriminate against women. My problem with prohibiting women from being the pastor is that Paul expressed the idea that it is not approved by God for a woman to have authority over men, or at least, not in the arena of religion. You folks are savvy enough, I believe, to be familiar with the scriptures that underline the issue.
            I don’t want to be affiliated with a church that ignores the text of scripture to suit its own needs and that is why I left a church that I felt (and hoped) held promise as a means of closer fellowship for me with the body of Christ. Oh, well, Evidently I must be patient and wait on Jesus to find me the church with which He wants me to associate. Bums me out that I got my butt out of bed at 6 am, cleaned up and got dressed and then drove the 20 miles between me and that church in hopes of spending some time with Jesus and my brethren (when two or three are gathered in my name, I am there also). Coulda kept on dreaming in my warm, cozy bed instead of having to freeze my @$$ off to find out I’ve been blindsided – AGAIN!



          • fessdo on January 6, 2019 at 8:09 pm

            Could have been worse my friend could have been a man pastor and after years of you going there you find out the pastor had a sex change a year before you started.



          • Son on January 7, 2019 at 12:25 am

            Ha ha ha, fessdo, still LOVE your sense of humor! : )

            btw, I was invited to join a “bible study” meeting before the sermon began today at church. The meeting broke up and I was left sitting with another brother at the table where we had met. I asked him about “Pastor Susan” and specifically, what he thought about a female pastor, citing Paul’s admonition that women should be silent in church and ask their husband in private if they had a question about something. He got real weird, clamming up and telling me “I can’t discuss that with you.” I pressed him a little, saying, “What? Did you just say ‘you ‘can’t discuss that with me’?” His attitude became even more weird, to the point that I became uncomfortable sitting next to him. I patted him on the shoulder and remarked, “I need to use the head, nice meeting you. God bless you.” Then, I left that church, never to return. Freaked me out!



      • Stan the plumber man on January 20, 2019 at 3:48 am

        Group religion is like it says GROUP. With a mass WE CAN CONCUIRE THE WORLD OR AT LEAST THE PILE OF SHIT IN OUR OWN BACK YARD. In life it starts in our own yard. Looking to help my neighbors clean up the POOP.. WWJD?

    • JOHN on January 8, 2019 at 8:33 pm

      I like the way you put Jesus first

    • Robin on January 10, 2019 at 12:49 pm

      Amen.

    • lisa boyce on January 13, 2019 at 3:25 pm

      My husband and I no longer attend a brick and morter church building. We do attend an online church. We’re both born again, Spirit filled believers in Christ Jesus. We love the Lord with all of our hearts, soul and mind. The problem for us is there are no serious bible teaching churches, at least not in our area, at all. We rather stay home and watch our online church than be involved in a lukewarm, church that is not serious about teaching the people, or giving people a false doctrine. God is not in buildings. The pastors are not teaching repentance, nor holding people accountable for sin. Sin is not being preached in the churches at all anymore. Pastors are allowing a complacent spirit and not even giving alter calls. We went to one church and they were playing secular music. I mean very secular music. Its quite pathetic.

      • Stu on January 13, 2019 at 4:11 pm

        Dear Lisa,

        I went to church this morning; the Pastor preached on sin. When you claim, “Sin is not being preached in the churches at all anymore,” I think it is important not to make universal and dogmatic statements. It is surely an easy way to convince oneself that what he believes is true—but not necessarily what Christ believes—who loved and died for his Church. I again want to reiterate a passage in Revelation: “Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): Only hold on to what you have until I come.” Jesus sees what is going on—even in the worst of his Body, but he is not calling anyone to leave; he is asking those who stay to persevere and overcome and be rewarded for it. This was a church practicing sexual sin whose teacher was Jezebel.

        We are quick to accuse, point fingers, blame, and condemn. The very first sin ever committed was blame, and we have turned it into an art form. It makes us bitter and subtly and deceptively makes us prideful. If we can lift ourselves up in the face of others who are “not so well off,” we can pretend the mask we are wearing isn’t visible. But God sees every mask, and even on our best day, even while we pray—God says we are filthy rags. Spurgeon said that until a man comes to realize how truly black inside he is, he has no real understanding of what “Christian” means. I am not judging you; this attitude is in each of us, and to the degree that it is, demonstrates our need to come to Christ for everything.

        There is a real contention between being self-centered and other-centered. We fight the one to belong to the other and we struggle every step of the way. Many in church need the more mature brother or sister to encourage and model, and testify to God’s love for us that He did not have to give.

        God bless you.
        Stu

        • Son on January 13, 2019 at 4:33 pm

          Don’t let your trespasses interfere with your relationship with Jesus. We all trespass.
          Romans 3:23
          ” For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
          God has worked out your salvation. He did it on The Cross, all those years ago.
          Be thankful to Him. And, stay humble.

          • Stu on January 13, 2019 at 4:47 pm

            Be it that I should hear back on what I just shared. But you make my point ever clearer. So thank you for the boomerang..



        • lisa boyce on January 13, 2019 at 4:48 pm

          First all, comments like that is another reason we don”t go as well. In short, you are judging me, but that’s ok. Another reason is there is no preaching of Prophecy. I asked several pastors in my state do they even touch on end times, or the coming Rapture to prepare the church for such. I’m just giving you reasons why a lot of believers are leaving the buildings. We’re definitely not the only ones who feel this way.

          • Stu on January 13, 2019 at 4:53 pm

            Perhaps Lisa you did not read the part where I said I was not judging you, but thx for the heads-up. btw, I included myself. We are all in this together. I am not your enemy. 🙂



          • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 5:02 pm

            Stu,
            I think it maybe that time of the month for Lisa?



          • lisa boyce on January 13, 2019 at 5:04 pm

            THAT WAS VERY DISRESPECTFUL.



          • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 5:07 pm

            Lisa,
            I’m sure you’ll GET OVER IT?



          • koo on January 20, 2019 at 9:27 pm

            Yep. Church governance doesn’t even follow the Book. That hypnotic New Age music where you can screw up the lyrics any which way & still sound OK seems a masterful work of Satan vs old time songs that had a beginning, middle and end & with a purpose of helping you to remember an important lesson. Psychology has taken precedence & most pastors evidence a stronger faith in this soft psuedo-science of satan than God or the Bible. Show me the fruit of psychology. It is as barren as it is beguiling. I have many more reasons to run from church but these should be sufficient. I actually start feeling quite ill when I encounter the false words/worship & the hypnotic music & the rock concert decibels is to hide the lukewarm congregation & the missing Holy Spirit imo.



          • koo on January 20, 2019 at 10:30 pm

            Years ago when I was new I asked why we weren’t learning prophecy and Revelation & was told it’s a “closed book” whatever that means. Also that to understand it one needs guidance of Holy Spirit. So that has left me on a solitary journey with internet – bleh. People who went to Catholic school claimed to understand it but none would bother to help me. I think all are afraid to teach it. Now that I saw the time of month comments I will be leaving. Cheap talk for when they are threatened cuz they have nothing & a shame there’s no moderator.



          • fessdo on January 20, 2019 at 10:44 pm

            koo,
            You stated “I have many more reasons to run from church but these should be sufficient”,,, you must have some kind of rule in your mind that a person needs a reason to not attend church?



        • John on January 13, 2019 at 11:40 pm

          we will never in this life time get the spirit like what you said Stu , but it would be very great in spirit if we did. oh Jesus Lord i am afraid to say help us on this one. oh my Job. hope i mean some thing

          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 8:11 am

            John if you’ve received Jesus as you savior then that spirit is already in you.
            Romans 8:11 The Message (MSG)
            9-11 But if God himself has taken up residence in your life, you can hardly be thinking more of yourself than of him. Anyone, of course, who has not welcomed this invisible but clearly present God, the Spirit of Christ, won’t know what we’re talking about. But for you who welcome him, in whom he dwells—even though you still experience all the limitations of sin—you yourself experience life on God’s terms. It stands to reason, doesn’t it, that if the alive-and-present God who raised Jesus from the dead moves into your life, he’ll do the same thing in you that he did in Jesus, bringing you alive to himself? When God lives and breathes in you (and he does, as surely as he did in Jesus), you are delivered from that dead life. With his Spirit living in you, your body will be as alive as Christ’s!



          • Stu on January 14, 2019 at 8:42 am

            Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you (1 Corinthians 3:16). But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His (Romans 8:9).

            John, one cannot be a believer without the Holy Spirit.



          • John on January 14, 2019 at 9:58 am

            I f i have Jesus in my life of my understanding ‘. then i have his spirit working through me. how about you brother stu if i may say so. JESUS -GOD knows i have a dissability and still love’s me for that. Jesus kept me alive . but i would rather be with him. we all have a penalty to pay on this reched earth.



          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 10:07 am

            John where in the bible do you get that a saved person has “a penalty to pay on earth”?



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 11:19 am

            Beautiful, brother Fessdo, beautiful!

            Amen.



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 11:21 am

            Beautiful, brother Stu, beautiful!

            Amen



      • Son on January 13, 2019 at 4:20 pm

        So, today at the church I started attending about a month ago, the pastor asked the congregation to rest in The Lord. The pastor allowed much time to pass in silence. Eventually, I started wondering about the long period of silence as we all waited upon Him.. Suddenly, the pastor began speaking in a language I didn’t understand, a language that sounded almost like Hebrew. I wondered if he was reciting scripture from the Old Testament. I listened but couldn’t discern his meaning. When he finished speaking, he summoned a woman from the congregation to come to the front of the church. She did and proceeded to translate what the pastor said in plain English. I realized then that he had been speaking in tongues. After the service, I asked the woman who had translated the pastor’s words in tongues if she had set that up with Pastor Andy ahead of time. She told me, “NO”, with some surprise in her voice. I told her that was amazing. I asked Pastor Andy about what happened and he told me he had a vision in his mind of the woman who translated his words spoken in tongues and knew God was telling him to have her interpret for the congregation.
        I, myself, have prayed in tongues before, but I never understood what I was saying. I have prayed for others in tongues, out of faith that The Holy Spirit knew what to pray for them, but I never understood what I said while praying in tongues. This was an amazing, prophetic experience for me!
        There ARE spirit-filled churches out there. I know this now. I was blessed by God to lead me to a spirit-filled church.
        I had two bad experiences with churches at which the leadership was vain, self-serving and prideful to the exclusion of the flock. I had vowed off attending church anymore. But, now I have hope that God has led me to a church where Hid Word may be fulfilled. Just sharing, brethren. I hop and pray that those of you who worship Him alone may find the fellowship that a true, spirit-filled church offers us in our quest to abundantly fulfill our relationship with Jesus.

        With His Love,

        Your brother Dave

        • Son on January 13, 2019 at 4:24 pm

          typo correction – HIS Word, not “Hid Word”.

        • John on January 14, 2019 at 10:33 am

          No where’. but we do suffer is what i think i said.

          • John on January 14, 2019 at 10:37 am

            IF YOU HAVE AN EAR. WELL MAYBE I DO NOT. BUT IT DOES NOT KEEP ME AWAY FROM BEING SAVED FOR TRYING. ANY COMMENTS DAVE



          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 10:54 am

            John you comment was “we all have a penalty to pay on this retched earth”,,,, the “we all” you used can’t be the Christians on earth? I can show you scripture where Christians are more than conquerors. True you’ll have pain on this earth but suffering is optional.



          • John on January 14, 2019 at 10:54 am

            DAVE -FESSDO What does the the Bible mean, when it says in the end times MAN WILL OUT SMART HIM SELF



          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 11:05 am

            John I’ve never read that in the word but I have read Hosea 4:6 King James Version (KJV)
            6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:



          • John on January 14, 2019 at 11:21 am

            I DON’T NO MUCH BUT SUFFERING SEEMS MORE INVITABLE’. BUT MAY BE THE BIBLE SAYS IT IS OPTIONAL. FAITH HOPE



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 11:33 am

            John 1616:33
            “These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.”
            Phillipians 1:6
            “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:”

            Keep the faith, brother. Ask Him for more of it.

            Your bro Dave



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 11:52 am

            John, I couldn’t find anything in the Bible about “man will outsmart himself.” The closest Biblical reference I could find iw in 2 Timothy 3:
            “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
            Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their’s also was. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

            With His Love,

            Dave



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 11:59 am

            John, I’m very sorry to hear you suffer from a disability. I can’t imagine what that must be like, but it is your life and you must live it the best you can. At leat Jesus lives within you and you know that. He can get you through anything and everything, some way, somehow.
            Let me tell you my “broken egg” analogy. A wealthy, well-placed man gets an egg with a broken yoke for breakfast. He is piqued and annoyed that the yoke is broken, the egg is not perfect. A homeless man gets an egg with a broken yoke. He is grateful for receiving the food. Same egg in both cases.

            Be blessed.

            Your bro Dave



          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 12:54 pm

            John pain works in the body but suffering works in the mind.
            Salvation is brought about by faith in Christ, so we are to use that knowledge to stop the suffering.
            Ephesians 6:17 King James Version (KJV) And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
            A helmet is used to protect the head (mind) so when you know in your mind that Jesus has provided something for that pain in you body then you can rest in Him and end the suffering.



          • John on January 14, 2019 at 6:39 pm

            Dave’. sweet. some one said Suffering is inevitable. Thanks. oh in Mathew they tried to out smart Jesus. Thanks again BRO DAVE’.



          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 8:15 pm

            John,
            I’m so sorry I though you were looking for help but instead you was wanting pity, my bad.



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 8:51 pm

            2 Corintieans 4″18
            “While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.”
            1 Peter 1:24-25
            “For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”

            I wish I could do more to ease your suffering, brother John. I can only offer you the words of God.
            This world and our human condition are temporary. What really counts is where we shall spend all of eternity.

            Dave



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 9:14 pm

            Please allow me to reiterate: there is nothing more important than where you/I/we shall spend all of eternity. As our friend and brother Fessdo pointed out in an earlier comment, our life is about 2 days in the reality of God’s existence. And I say, “if even two days.” I still maintain there is no time with God. Time is irrelevant to God. Time is only relevant to those who are under the sentence of death.

            Be blessed, brethren.



          • fessdo on January 14, 2019 at 9:19 pm

            John do you want pity so you can keep your government check coming in or do you want the truth that will set you free from the sickness, suffering, and lack the world is experiencing? It’s your choice.



          • Son on January 14, 2019 at 9:33 pm

            Ask yourselves this, brethren: if you would not age or die, what would you do right now? Life would go on forever if you would not age or die. So, what would you do? Well, DO IT. NOW.
            ; )

            Dave



          • John on January 15, 2019 at 5:30 pm

            Ya Fessdo’. i am in a situation of not eccepting things going on with me. Dave put all that down for me and i do thank him for it. Hope i get out of this hole soon.



          • John on January 15, 2019 at 5:43 pm

            60 in april’. i would love to get off ssdi by the name of Jesus to get back doing the work i loved and regret.



          • fessdo on January 15, 2019 at 5:43 pm

            John,
            Hang in there, the government will probably get back to work soon?
            PS….. poor poor John,,,, feel better now?



          • John on January 15, 2019 at 5:57 pm

            Fessdo. no not yet . and the gov is getting back to work later or sooner than we think. yes i am feeling much better now and for?



          • fessdo on January 15, 2019 at 6:10 pm

            John,
            Has your lighting fast brain been wondered how I knew you was on a government check a day before you told it?



          • John on January 15, 2019 at 10:05 pm

            Bother Dave thanks for the help and i sure need more to thank God for any Good or bad i get. disability is in all in a way so much of my stupid memory to keep up on your true love on your brother. i wished i could repeat what you say for me for i read your great words . LOVE AND WISE BROTHER DAVE IS!!



        • John on January 15, 2019 at 10:09 pm

          I AM NOT GETTING ANY REPLY BUTTENS IN THE WRONG PLACE MAKE IT CRAZY TO REPLY TO THE PERSON REPLYING TOO

      • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 4:48 pm

        Lisa,
        “secular music” ??? are you sure they played that in a church??? Did you or someone call the law about this, if you didn’t God’s not going to be able to sleep a wink tonight.
        I’m betting Lisa you haven’t had any serious bible teaching on Matthew 7:1-5?
        Your welcome,
        Fessdo.

        • lisa boyce on January 13, 2019 at 4:53 pm

          WHEN WE WALKED INSIDE THE THE MUSIC WAS “PLAY THAT FUNKY MUSIC WHITE BOY”, MICHEAL JACKSON “BAD”. NEED I GO ON??? YES THATS WHAT WAS PLAYING. WE’RE DEFINITELY NOT AGAINST CHRISTIAN CONTEMPORARY MUSIC, BUT THAT WAS A LITTLE TOO MUCH.

          • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 4:58 pm

            That’s all,,, funky white boy??? good I think God will get over that.



          • lisa boyce on January 13, 2019 at 5:00 pm

            IM SURE GOD WILL GET OVER THAT AS WELL.



        • Stu on January 13, 2019 at 5:22 pm

          Hi Fessdo. I had no Reply button to click onto your last comment, so I will only say that people respond differently to the same message. I might have delivered those same words to someone else and would have gotten an entirely different response. I accept her rebuke, but we surely see how people interact by our words. I actually feel sad that she responded in such a hurt way, whereas Dave shared his response to me, and his word of advice that I remain humble is a point I am always willing to be reminded of. When I look at myself in the mirror, I neither have to see someone cringe nor brag. I can learn from what others think and say. Hope you are doing well.

          • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 5:35 pm

            Stu,
            Lisa is just looking for an approval that it was OK to not attend another church. I mean one excuse is as good as another, whether it’s the pastor wore a devil red tie or a cold blue tie or he didn’t shake my hand or he shook my hand too weak or he shook my hand too hard or he shook my hand too fast or he shook it too long or the music was too loud or the music was too low or the music was too old fashion or the music was to modern or the parking spaces were to angled too much or they,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



          • Son on January 13, 2019 at 9:07 pm

            Stu, my advice to “Be thankful and stay humble” was not directed at you in particular, dear brother. It was just a general exhortation that all of us who owe our eternal Life to Jesus should keep those thoughts in mind. And you know, the enemy is always hanging around to try to make us fight and disagree with one another, so we should defend our fortress of God with love and forgiveness for those who turn against us. Try to set an example for those who are weaker in their faith, I guess I’m saying, but that would certainly not be you. You have shown me nothing but a blessed, humble and grateful soul from the beginning of our discourse, bro! : ) You display Agape in your words, Stu.
            1 Peter 5:8
            “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:”

            Peace to all who trust in the holy name of JESUS.

            With His Love,

            Dave



        • Son on January 13, 2019 at 8:51 pm

          Hey, ole buddy and brother Fessdo, fwiw, the last church I attended and then quit, “Calvary Chapel”, or as I now call it, “The Church of Frisbee” (Google it and see what I mean), conducted some entertainment night featuring one of the pastors, a guy who went by the handle, “Pastor Clark”. This was the same guy who blew me off with the casual comment, “You must have taken the passage out of context” when God had me turn my car around halfway to my home to return to the church to deliver God’s message to him, which was 1 Corinthians 8:2 “And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.”
          Well, the reverend Pastor Clark donned an Elvis wig and outfit, big shades and all, and performed “Burning Love” for the assembled presbytery. Thank God I wasn’t in attendance or I might have died laughing. “Secular music.”” Are you kidding me? I don’t blame Lisa one bit for her reaction. If a church is going to play music, it should be music that reflects worship and reverence for God’s Holy Lamb, who died in terrible suffering and saved our bacon from the eternal frying pan. Lisa, I agree with you. Church should be about worshipping and glorifying God, not indulging the customs of men, and fleshly cutoms, at that. Remember, the flesh is at odds with The Spirit.

          His Love and Blessing to both of you, sister Lisa and beloved brother Fessdo!

          In His Spirit,

          Your bro Dave

          • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 9:21 pm

            Dave,
            Little Lisa may want to try a catholic church, I hear they’re real quite and acted real holy or maybe the church of Christ who don’t even have a piano.
            Sure hope David knew the correct volume and the right songs to play? 1 Chronicles 13:8 King James Version (KJV) And David and all Israel played before God with all their might, and with singing, and with harps, and with psalteries, and with timbrels, and with cymbals, and with trumpets.



          • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 9:49 pm

            You learn a lot reading the bible, notice it says “David and all Israel played before God with all their might” ALL THEIR MIGHT David didn’t whisper a tune to God. Even Job knew Job 38:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
            6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
            7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
            Ever counted how many time the word shout is used in the bible? Could it be if a person is out of joy then all they need to do is SHOUT for some joy??? Think I read about some people that knock down a wall with a shout? God’s ways are not our ways.



          • Son on January 13, 2019 at 10:42 pm

            lolol, Fessdo, I truly doubt they were playing “Purple Haze”. ; )



        • John on January 15, 2019 at 6:18 pm

          Fessdo lighting fast brain? and so you figure out about me good for you. Great for you to use these words on me. why insult?

          • fessdo on January 15, 2019 at 6:35 pm

            John,
            An insult can be a slap in the face in order to wake one up.



          • John on January 15, 2019 at 6:53 pm

            i knew you were going to say that. and expected you to . Bible is not against people on ssdi . i also hint my words and so how you new i am on dissability pro any one suposed it. Bible says to help one another. but your doing what you think is right and i need to walk away from things not fully in context with what Jesus said not any insult. THANKS JESUS I WILL GO



          • Son on January 15, 2019 at 9:04 pm

            Brother John,
            Last night, God told me that my life shall transpire in accordance with His Will. He told me that my life is in His Hands. Moreover, He told me that I shall live in accordance with His Will, which He commands us to do. He also told me that He would never desert me or forsake me.
            So, that’s all good with me. I would certainly make wrong choices and separate myself from God, as is the wont of worldly flesh, without His promise to me and faithfulness to that promise..
            Just sharing with you, John, what God told me and also sharing with all of my brethren on this forum who have ears to hear. Thanks to our loving, merciful God, I am at peace, as I patiently await His glorious return.
            Hebrews 10:36
            “You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.”
            Matthew 6:10
            “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.”



          • John on January 15, 2019 at 9:49 pm

            OK Fessdo bro Persevere ‘. I ask God for me not to have any sin full dream last night . so my dream came and rain came along to wash away any sin wile i was at a nice camping area. i was tempted to sin in this dream and funny how just rain from the sky made no sin to happen . ya your right i need to persevere though. it’s very tough roed to keep up with trying and knowing the diff- between Good and Bad.



      • Christine on January 17, 2019 at 9:22 am

        Hi Lisa,
        I read your comment and i can totally relate. My husband and i are in the same exact spot as you and your husband. I can not find a holy spirit filled church in my small area. These churches are luke warm and they are embracing the world, and they open their doors wide open and allow the enemy to walk right in with YOGA and all kinds of garbage that are of the world!!!!!!
        I have asked the Lord to lead me to the church where He sees fit and i have been waiting for quite some time now.

        • Stu on January 18, 2019 at 12:28 am

          Dear Christine,

          I recall a church similar to the ones you are describing. In that church, no one understood the meaning of being our brother’s keeper. Everyone was an island, and relationships were scarce. But I was to learn a valuable lesson from a woman who had wisdom.

          Families were camping near a lake, and one mischievous little boy decided to throw his fish hook too close to others who were wading in the water. His parents said nothing. So the woman went to the little boy and politely told him that his hook may get caught in the skin—or worse, an eye—of others nearby, and then she left. But undaunted, he continued throwing his hook into the water around the others. When the woman again saw what he was doing, she became righteously angered, and went to him a second time—this time not so politely, but saying instead, “If you do not find a different place to throw your hook, I will take your rod and break it in half, and you will not fish today.” The boy ran to his father and the father confronted the woman. When she shared what happened, the father restricted the boy from using his fishing rod for the remainder of the time there.

          I think you see my point. Someone was brave enough to do what was right, and because she did, many people there learned a valuable lesson, and God exalted this woman as a respected and concerned sister. If people are always complaining that everyone else is at fault, then nothing will change. Every member of the body is important to Christ, but we are not there to be catered to. We are there to give something to others—a piece of ourselves God calls us to give—regardless of what others fail to do that does not satisfy us. This site is filled with bitter people who blame and condemn, but they do not see themselves doing it.

          Tim Keller, a well-renowned pastor describes our battle with sin quite un-forgetfully. A man starts out complaining and grumbling. He notices himself doing it, but he continues to grumble, even seeing his dislike of it and knows he must stop. But as days wear on and become weeks, he sees it less and less and finally it becomes who he is. That’s hell—and that’s Hell. A little fire starts out inside us, and as Christians, our job is to blow them out before they grow. If a sin remains unchecked, it begins to consume the whole forest of the heart on fire. Don’t let others ruin your day. Instead, encourage them to do what is right. Don’t let yourself grow bitter—but better. Who is any less flawed or blemished than we?

        • fessdo on January 18, 2019 at 8:51 am

          Christine,
          Hope you and Lisa prayed your favorite prayer this morning?

          Luke 18:11-12 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
          11 The Pharisee stood alone, away from the tax collector(church people). When the Pharisee prayed, he said, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not as bad as other people. I am not like men who steal, cheat, commit adultery, (or do YOGA). I thank you that I am better than this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I give a tenth of everything I get!’
          (Lord I got to rest a minute, patting myself on the back is tough)
          A-men

          • Son on January 19, 2019 at 11:06 pm

            Looks like there’s nothing to say unless somebody has a gripe about their church. Nice.
            Happy Sunday, everybody!
            Oh, let me add a little substance here. A few days ago, The Lord told me that my life is in the hands of God. I believe Him. He also told me that I will live in accordance with The Will of God. For that, I am very thankful! Jesus has given me blessed peace. Praise God!
            What would we do without our precious Lord Jesus?

            Dave



      • Stan the plumber man on January 20, 2019 at 3:58 am

        U cannot take the world on your own but as a community church! Mass thought can change the world. Community involvement can b awe inspiring and change things in brief moments which can b life changing 4 others. We r here 2 help. That is what I believe my parents hav ed instilled in me. Only hope I c an lived up 2 there high hopes and aspirations.

    • Talitha Cumi on January 15, 2019 at 2:23 pm

      What tires me about the churches is that it’s nearly impossible to find one that is BIBLICAL. They don’t preach the full counsel of God. They avoid warning about hell, sin and repentance, lest they lose members. They put on shows; the pastor tells stories. A large proportion of pastors aren’t even saved themselves, but are ministers of the evil one. They force an unscriptural tithe using verses from Malachi that were specifically for ancient Israel. They are money oriented and the house of prayer is a house of merchandise with bookstores and cafes, just like the world. The church has become a clique, a social gathering. The congregations have become too large to effectively minister to individuals.
      They disregard the Hebrew Jesus and I have met so-called Christians who are unaware that He was born a Hebrew from the line of Judah. In other words, they are unaware that the Son of Man was a JEW. They deny His Deity in many cases. Some churches are anti-Semitic. Most of the believers argue with each other about cardinal doctrines of the faith. Everyone wants to argue their point and many are biblically ignorant and don’t study. Political correctness reigns and pastors are afraid to CALL OUT SIN.
      What is really irritating is the number of false bibles out there. Common sense alone should tell you that God doesn’t have to put out new bibles every year, but the devil does to cause confusion, to add and subtract from the Word. Everyone is using a different textbook! This practice is not allowed in secular university classes: Everyone must use the EXACT TEXTBOOK that the professor teaches from. Yet we have everyone using their favorite VERSION.
      The real Scriptures are not a VERSION, yet they are called the King James VERSION.The trusty old King James Bible, yes, it’s the real Word, do the research, Almost NO pastor uses it anymore; again, the devices of the devil at work here.
      I advocate going back to home church situations. These are difficult to locate and have their own set of problems. We are in the last days of rampant apostasy. Few pastors even touch the teaching of eschatology, so none of this is surprising. The truly great men of God that I remember have all died.
      What is miraculous is that even with all of the above negatives, there is a great positive at work. Jesus Christ still SAVES people, in spite of themselves. Truly he is a great and gracious Deliverer.
      I tell people about the Lord on a person-to -person basis. I am not about works. I do what He puts in front of me to do, and it’s always obvious so I don’t have to beat the bushes to find His will.
      What happened to the great hymns? All but gone! Now we have rock style bands on stage and women pastors. Everyone is writing a book on how to be an effective Christian when the answer is right in front of them.
      I would love to find an old fashioned, fundamental congregation. My city is full of mega-churches.

      • fessdo on January 15, 2019 at 3:43 pm

        Talitha,
        You’re really funny, you fuss about preachers not beating the people over the head with their bible on sin and hell each meeting but you also fuss about which bible they should be using to beat them over the head with about sin and hell, then you fuss about them reading Malachi, next you fuss about selling coffee and cookies, then you fuss about people fussing about their cardinal doctrines,,,,, I mean that is funny stuff. And at the last you say “I would love to find an old fashioned, fundamental congregation. My city is full of mega-churches”,, well move?

      • Stu on January 15, 2019 at 4:14 pm

        Talitha,
        I am having a hard time not being sarcastic here. I thought we were all imperfect, blemished, and flawed people? I thought that “If I have the gift of prophesy, and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” Perhaps the poor Vietnamize farmer who doesn’t have a Bible cannot enter into heaven without his KJV. How many extra regulations must I have to satisfy my Creator? Like I said, I do not want to be sarcastic, but if you condemned me like you seem to be, I would have nothing but slavery to turn to.

        On another note, I know your intentions are well-meaning, but grumbling and complaining about the rest of us who do not meet your standards is not encouraging, but deflating.

        Wishing you well, sister.

        • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 2:37 pm

          First of all, they are not MY standards. They are HIS standards. He demands that the FULL COUNSEL is preached, not just part of it! I am aware that people can get saved reading ANY false bible, because they were elected and predestinated for salvation. Read Romans 8:29 onward! Jesus also used the phrase ‘my elect’ over and over! Take your dictionary and look up ‘elect’.
          The KJB usually lands in the hands of saved people after awhile, because the Spirit Himself lands it there. They are really aware that something is wrong, and they seek a closer intimacy…and the KJB will deliver on that. The versions are weak and powerless but again, I will state that the Lord will use them as a stepping stone. I was saved listening to an apostate because I was meant to be saved. He can save that Vietnamese farmer using any means He chooses, if that man was elected before the foundation of the world.
          People dislike the KJB exactly because it is bluntly forthright and ALL cardinal doctrines of the faith are therein. They prefer to have their ears tickled by false doctrine. Research WHY the KJB is the real word. I think you are very lightweight on research. Study to show thyself approved!

          • Son on January 22, 2019 at 3:26 pm

            Romans 9:15
            “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.”
            John 14:26
            “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
            2 Peter 1:21
            “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
            2 Timothy 3:16
            “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”
            Revelation 22:19
            “And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
            Romans 8:38-39
            “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
            Phillipians 4:6-9
            “Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.”

            His Peace to you, sister.



          • Stu on January 22, 2019 at 5:35 pm

            Talitha,
            I must say that what you think of me is not all that important. It is what Christ thinks of me that is. But I am curious why you are so presumptuous about who I am and what I read. Actually I have studied the KJV, and have no problem referring to it. God will preserve the integrity of His Word no matter what. He has through the ages, and clouds of witnesses have been saved without ever having known what a KJV Bible is. You are perceived condescendingly by your tone, “Take your dictionary and look up ‘elect’” as if you are the only one who fully appreciates God’s power and that He speaks to no one but you. When you puff yourself up by saying, “I think you are very lightweight on research,” it is why we are not to compare ourselves with one another because one will always see himself as larger or smaller, and it is why I shared with you the passage 1 Cor 13—one which you neglected to respond to, and one which you appear to show none yourself. Every man is at a different place in his walk with Christ, and understanding that comes with a measure of compassion.

            Having said all that, I am in no wise greater or smarter or better than anyone here—and will therefore admit that my pride stands before me. There is no need to stand on a pedestal. No one—no one is saved of his own doing although many would talk as if it were possible.

            One last thing dear sister: we all wear masks—everyone of us—and to the extent that we do, we can neither give love nor receive it; only the mask gets the credit. The hardest thing Christians face is lowering it, and we must fight daily to do it.



          • Son on January 23, 2019 at 2:13 pm

            Brother Stu, the pastor at the church I now attend gave me some very good advice: he told me to “try to see through the eyes of Jesus and think like the mind of Jesus.” I know, it’s very, very difficult for us to do that, but the concept is blessed and trying to accomplish that has helped me in my behavior, I feel. Just wanted to share the inspiration with you that was given to me by Jesus through the pastor at my church, my beloved bro! : )

            God’s blessing be upon you today and forever.

            Your bro Dave



      • Stan the plumber man on January 20, 2019 at 4:06 am

        The bible was written by man. Unfortunately some believe by god. If u can follow the basics and not get tied up in it u will b blessed. They r basic guidelines of how 2 b a great person. Dont sweat the small stuff. Look at the bigger picture and u will c the light. God bless all. WWJD?

        • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 3:04 pm

          If you think the bible was written by men, that’s because you’re reading one that was written by men. Satan counterfeits God’s work and has been perverting the Word since Eden. The real Word was verbally given to the prophets and apostles from the mouth of the Lord. It’s simple: Ever see an executive dictate letters to his secretary? That’s how the KJB was written, by direct words from God to the ready pen of that Israelite servant (with the exception of Luke, the only Gentile secretary). You use profanity in your comments and the WWJD thing is worn out. There are always trolls on forums like this and you are a troll.

      • koo on January 20, 2019 at 11:02 pm

        100% agree. The churches seem to have all been compromised & the true meanings are lost in watered down Bible. I’m going to try Orthodox Christian next cause even KJV has issues but it does speak to me whereas the newer versions – I can’t get the meaning – it is like nothing to me. I also have been advocating home church but fell away instead – have known people fleeing abuse in home church situations so not interested. But if I go in the door of that Orthodox church & hear that New Age hypnosis stoner musack I’ll be out that door so fast – it’s a sign – I don’t need fellowship with the Satan-infused telling me to compromise truth. I am forced to compromise in too many areas of my life already – NOT ON SUNDAY. . .

        • talitha cumi on January 22, 2019 at 2:48 pm

          Koo, glad you agree. I put a great deal of Biblically correct thought in my comments. I can spot false doctrine quickly in a church session. It doesn’t take long to see the subtle methods that are employed to deceive the unwary. The KJB has no issues whatsoever; I will stand firm on that. The KJB speaks to you like no other bible exactly because it is the verbally inspired, plenary Word directly given to the prophets. Keep reading it!

    • Randy on January 20, 2019 at 7:47 am

      How can you people quote anyone if you where not their, Jesus said this and that etc false testimony and they have you doing …

  24. Lawrence on December 24, 2018 at 5:41 am

    Folks, in Jesus’ name people have lied to me, distracted me from my walk with God with entertainment, and socially isolated me when I attend “church”. I’ve watched so many people’s lives ruined as the “church” puts burdens on people and strips them of their own relationship with God. One day, I was in prayer and asking for insight and it became clear to me that the real test of whether a church was genuine was whether Christ was manifest there. After searching for awhile, I grew disheartened. Jesus told me not to give up, and that I have a lot to offer but when I sought to help with my areas of expertise, that too was rejected. So many people argue that it is impossible to live a life with just God and not men, but remember that what is impossible with men is possible with God, and His power is made perfect in my weakness. I lean on Christ, and He has never ever let me down. If you are not going to an assembly of godless men who call themselves christian but believe in Christ, then I encourage you to keep the faith and not give up in finding Christ. For we are his body.

    • fessdo on December 24, 2018 at 8:59 am

      Lawrence,
      “many people’s lives ruined as the “church” puts burdens on people”
      This is so true but people like myself are destroyed from lack of knowledge. I have owned and ran businesses for years and like ALL owners the number one thing is profit, if you’re focused on anything else you will fail. The last few churches used me to help,,,, I though I was been used for my knowledge of the bible but after a few years I realized it was my business mind. The one thing that was really weird was finding out a church is just a business and the profitable ones was focused more on the bottom line (profit). The reason for giving my time and resources to the church was to help people, the reason I ran a business was for profit. When I saw the church’s main focus was money I then got to focusing on why the church would do things. When I called the profit focus to the leaders attention they said “what ever is in the best interest for the church” and the best interest just happened to be making a profit. The most damaging member is a member that has found out that it’s all about profit, these people will be run out quick. They will never be allowed to help in anyway at the church and will be shunned. To find a church that has zero focus on profit would be imposable, so the best we can look for would be one that has less focus on profit but good luck cause they’re all ran by humans and humans are fickle at best that’s why we need Jesus. Now if you could find a church where Jesus is the bottom line.

      • Son on January 7, 2019 at 10:37 am

        fessdo, I reread your post about churches and the profit motive. What you said got me to wondering, “What is that profit used to accomplish?” Is it to enrich and aggrandize the leadership of the church? To pay for their trips to exotic places to “further the mission of the church”? To buy better donuts and coffee for the congregation to enjoy before the service? To build an even larger and more elaborate physical structure to house the church? I mean, once the nut is covered, what happens to the extra money when a church is making a profit? Any ideas you can give me about this? I, too, have felt the underlying, if often subtle, theme of “give, give, give” in every church I have ever attended. But where does the money go? Help me here, brother. TIA

        Dave

        • koo on January 21, 2019 at 12:35 am

          The church I was going to had a Veteran’s Wall. Veteran’s on the wall get free yardwork. My husband is a veteran & we need help with yardwork but can’t afford to hire. The Veteran’s on the wall get fred yardwork because they pay a church membership that we cannot afford. Wouldn’t it just be more honest to hire a yard sérvice? But no. They get social approval by being on the wall. Then who does the free yardwork? These are illegal aliens who have been taken in by the church & they get federal funds to help with their care. There are also federal funds for job readyness training & these guys are being trained to stereotype – yardwork/landscaping. In order to keep these illegals longer after they are taught English & a job skill the church also runs a rehab for drug & alchohol addicted so during Sunday service a brown Hispanic young man will come in & give praise for how much the church has helped him with his addiction & everybody is happy – or so the pastor thinks. Many of us are sitting there steaming that we know a bunch of young guys who would like a chance to learn & do yardwork & get paid for it & many of these are also Hispanic but because they were born here that opportunity will not happen for them. (Since then many are now in prison – due to lack of opportunity.)
          In recent decades I have known many like myself who came apon extremely hard times. We never could afford church membership but we tithed cash with no signature & gave of our labor to efforts of the church. When our time of need came our church family rejected us in favor of these foreign born who entered illegally but get federal dollars (from our taxes)
          Those people did not spend years supporting the church. We working class did & our churches made us into chump losers & we still hate & distrust them for it.
          If you need food aid from a church you must give all ID as they report everything to Uncle Sam. This does not feel like Godly giving. It feels like the churches are an arm of government. It feels like Uncle Sam is so far up the church’s hind end – who would trust to confess to even a hangnail?
          A friend enticed us to join her church & promised that they become your church family & will cover all aspects of your funeral & burial as part of membership. Turns out the cost of membership is waaaay more than a policy & we can’t afford a policy. So yeah, you have to have a certain amount of wealth to go to church & you may sneer all you want but lots of us just don’t have it these days. Add the globalist politics, the too close with government, the goverment $, the ungodly things churches do to create/add value, the satanic music, the satanic sikeology, the near useless preaching & teaching due to watered down, no relationships of value offered – its a big old racket & a big old waste of time. I hunger for something that doesn’t exist & perhaps it never did.

          I remember getting stranded in a broken down car with another mother & a bunch of kids. We coasted into a church parking lot so as not to be a traffic hazard. Some men at the church helped us & then urged us to come to service because there was alot of good single police & firemen attended there. So many peoples church motivations are too worldly for my taste. Besides I was already married. I didn’t meet my husband at church & my church family all wanted to vet him for me – for a price – even if it was dinner out. He was coming to church with me & they were all amazingly adept at avoiding us just cause they really wanted that free dinner. So I never really had a church family – that was a lie & those people were all just users.

          • fessdo on January 21, 2019 at 8:14 am

            koo,
            You should change your name to GMH (give me handout) I’ve seen a lot of people who wanted the church to server them but never anyone quit like you. Jesus said “he came to server” and christens should be like Jesus.
            You said “Many of us are sitting there steaming” where in the world is your grace, love, compassion??? How can a person live like you???
            Start depending on Jesus to supply all your needs and stop depending on the church and/or government. Start by getting a full understanding of this verse. Philippians 4:19 Easy-to-Read Version My God will use his glorious riches to give you everything you need. He will do this through Christ Jesus.
            Get born again and start loving instead of hating.



          • koo on January 21, 2019 at 4:54 pm

            Fessdo – why don’t you learn to read before you judge? That’s a real heart after God that you are showing. Maybe when you are 78 years old & have done alot of giving & suffered alot of taking you may think that it is your turn too. Where is YOUR grace love & compassion? & don’t sell me your prosperity doctrine – Uncle Sam will take it or do nothing when to “too-big-to-fails” help themselves illegally out of your bank account so as to hasten your death from stress of eviction or having your medical equipment turned off because the power company decides to double bill you because you were in hospital & you might miss a payment & they are just helping you (and protecting their bottom line) never thinking that they took your rent money & levy their dead peasant probate policies on you. And all the churches can do & say is for illegal aliens – nothing for those of us that can’t even afford to go anymore, those of us that bought their lies to have our sweat equity & unnamed Godly cash donations considered as nothing. When the churches turn all their giving to a specific government supported demographic of criminals & get involved in politics to support criminals they should have remembered us salt of the earth citizens that supported them. They didn’t. They say & do nothing about the financial crimes perpetrated daily that kills people, nor do they help. So they should have stayed out of politics alltogether. The churches sold us out for the almighty dollar. The churches are criminal shyster con artists. Satan is in the sanctuary. Screwtape couldn’t have done it better. The churches in the US will only recover with a new generation. Of course if they were Godly & started with owning their sins & apologizing to us they could turn this population around but they don’t have to so they won’t. Despite the parable my hard-earned Benjamins meant nothing – they only count Clevelands. Where is THEIR grace, love, compassion & humility? They will be the ones crying “Lord, Lord . . .” Sign me righteously angry & my goverment check is MY MONEY that I EARNED & was taken from me whether I agreed or not & is now maligned as an ENTITLEMENT. No, they had it interest free for decades & stole my family’s business in court with lots of lies & ridicule – so much for “generational wealth” – Uncle Sam has a steady program of redistribution – where is the church on this constant stealing & manufactured hardship? Right in there with them. Part of the problem. & sometimes I suspect the truth is that the most Satanic among us hide amongst the sheep of the church & prey on us as I watched from afar my mother’s abuse in a Catholic nursing home & now that she has died all of her possessions have disappeared & I would love to have a pastor knowledgable in combatting spiritual theft to guide me in righteous prayer to protect her ascendance but the only ones I have met supposedly in that realm just want to do good works if it gets them on TV – has a reeking of a certain mineral to me. I don’t need her possessions but I don’t want them used to harm.



          • fessdo on January 21, 2019 at 5:31 pm

            koo,
            That’s it? I mean in 78yrs that’s the worse that has happened to you. You should count yourself one of the luckiest persons on earth. Man talk about spoiled. You do know people don’t have to be perfect to get to heaven, they don’t even have to treat people perfect ever time, they just have to have a savior named Jesus. Think about being born again and rid yourself of all that hate and begin to love your enemies.



          • Son on January 21, 2019 at 9:43 pm

            This forum, where we once discussed matters of spiritual significance, has gone to the dogs.
            I’m outta here for good. Adios, my true, faithful brethren. See you here, there or in the air.
            Good luck, Carey. You got the right idea but it’s all for nought, I’m afraid. Look out. He’s coming back and it ain’t gonna be pretty for those who don’t worship Him in spirit and in truth.
            Revelation 12:11
            “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

            Dave



          • fessdo on January 21, 2019 at 10:38 pm

            Dave,
            Don’t let those that are so wrapped up in their petty problems cause you to bail out. Remember when Jesus said let the dead bury the dead, I like the way the message says it.
            Luke 9:58-62 The Message (MSG)
            58 Jesus was curt: “Are you ready to rough it? We’re not staying in the best inns, you know.”
            Jesus said to another, “Follow me.”
            59 He said, “Certainly, but first excuse me for a couple of days, please. I have to make arrangements for my father’s funeral.”
            60 Jesus refused. “First things first. Your business is life, not death. And life is urgent: Announce God’s kingdom!”
            61 Then another said, “I’m ready to follow you, Master, but first excuse me while I get things straightened out at home.”
            62 Jesus said, “No procrastination. No backward looks. You can’t put God’s kingdom off till tomorrow. Seize the day.”

            I’m sure koo has had a not so perfect life but who has, I know kids that haven’t made it to their teens and just wish they could walk or take or breath without pain, they’ve had pain all their life and don’t know one day without pain, and then someone gripes about the wrong song played in church, when thousands are going to hell daily because they won’t receive Jesus as their savior. Makes one want to say let the dead bury the dead?



          • Son on January 22, 2019 at 1:48 am

            Hey, old friend and brother Fessdo – I’m not planning on contributing much here because I feel as if I am not really contributing anything positive. It appears to me like whatever pearls He gives me to offer here are simply me throwing pearls to swine. This forum has become much like the churches to which the complainers here refer in their criticism and complaints.
            There’s just not much working toward the glory of Jesus here, other than you and Stu. I will miss interacting with both of you. But, we shall meet, my brother, if it is His Will for us to do so and share recognition in His Kingdom.

            Matthew 10:14
            “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.”

            God bless you, my esteemed friend and brother Fessdo and same to you, dear brother Stu.

            With His Love,

            Dave



          • John on January 22, 2019 at 10:40 am

            DAVE BROTHER’. Gone to the Dogs? with you brother and want to see what you see. God-Jesus-Creator to be in total control of things soon.



          • John on January 22, 2019 at 11:00 am

            DAVE FESSDO SON-OF’. I have a long road and to short to take. I ask The Lord Jesus Christ for not to dis believe in how he works in my little Faith, but when i go to a athiest and hear what he has to say my faith prove it self . Jesus please no unecessary corrections



          • fessdo on January 22, 2019 at 5:11 pm

            Dave,
            All this should be confirmation that the devil isn’t pleased with you decision to stay and spread the gospel. satan has turn all the trolls loose today on this blog in retaliation to you staying. Good job Dave you’ve pissed him off but the good news is you’ve already won thru Christ Jesus.



        • Stu on January 22, 2019 at 8:38 am

          Hi Dave. No Reply button, but this is in regard to you leaving. Don’t. You have work to do in unfavorable situations. “Do you love only those who do not love you back”? God is not only giving you these brothers and sisters to help you persevere and become more loving, but to help and encourage them to do likewise. It is better to embrace each other now on earth and forgive one another because we are all sinners than do it in before all the angels and God.

          Besides, I really do enjoy learning new words.
          Peace and grace,Stu

          • John on January 22, 2019 at 11:03 am

            OH STU TOO I WANT TO ADD



          • Son on January 22, 2019 at 12:58 pm

            Ha ha, “learning new words.” You’re amusing, bro. Thanks for YOUR words of wisdom about
            sharing the things that Jesus shows me with others, even those who are bitter and spiteful about their experiences in the Lord, such as church attendance, etc. The Lord speaks to us, sometimes, through the words of His servants and I believe that is the case here with your advice. I’ll stick around, long as I can stand hearing the bile being spewed by the malcontents. Jesus did tell us to shake off the dust and not cast our pearls to swine, remember. The hard part is sorting the wheat from the chaff. Glad it’s not, ultimately, my job to do that. I’m just living each day, each moment, one at a time, waiting for HIM to return for us. Thanks for your encouragement.

            With His Love, bro Stu.

            Dave



    • Son on December 24, 2018 at 1:29 pm

      I think that fessdo is probably more savvy about the way the secular world, in general, and the business world, in particular, than I am. That being said, I have been attending a church recently where I share in His Spirit with the congregation and the pastor. I go to church for Jesus. That is the only reason I get my butt out of bed early on Sunday morning and sit in one spot for an hour or two on Sunday. I do it for HIM, not for men, to worship HIM with other fellow believers. I keep an eye on the profit motivations of the church. Yes, I toss a $5 bill into the collection jar when they pass it. The church needs electricity, etc. The servants/pastor/workers for the church need sustenance. That is why I feel I should contribute something, but I give the money to Jesus. I am not planning to get fleeced by the wolves. If Jesus tells me to give, I obey Him. John 10:27 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:” If I am victimized for HIS sake, I count that as a blessing. 1 Peter 4:16 “Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.” God has told us in His holy scripture that He wants us to gather together to worship Him in spirit and in truth. Hebrews 10:25 “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.” Where else can we, in modern American society, gather together for this purpose on a regular basis except for the church? Go to church to be with Jesus. Matthew 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Listen for HIS voice and do not be fooled by the wolves in sheep’s clothing. Be dedicated to JESUS and only JESUS.

      God bless you, my brethren.

      Dave

      • Stu on December 24, 2018 at 1:48 pm

        Well said, Dave. It is an other-centered viewpoint, and whatever we lack, Christ is sufficient. When Jesus said, “I came to heal the sick, not the well,” he was being sarcastic, because he knows that no one is well enough not to need him.

        • Son on December 26, 2018 at 3:30 pm

          I suppose some people want to get into Heaven by hook or by crook, and I kinda don’t blame them for feeling that way. As long as they get in, that gets the job done. However, I hear the tinkling of a cymbal there. When you love someone, and especially when you love Jesus, you want to be with them, spend time with them and share with them. Jesus said that when two or more are gathered in His name, He is with them also. Perhaps one doesn’t HAVE to obey the letter of Matthew 10:25 in order to gain entrance into Heaven, but how much does one lose in terms of the love Jesus offers through sharing worship with His body, the body of Christ? Is anyone here familiar with the analogy of the thimble and the hogshead? We will all be full of joy in Christ’s Kingdom, but some will be thimbles and some will be hogsheads in their fullness of their joy. Pray that God might lead you to a church, or some place of worship, where you can gather with brethren who worship Jesus in spirit and in truth and love you as He has commanded us to love one another. If it is His Will for you to find that place, it will enhance and enrich your worship and love of Jesus. As Stu once wrote, it will “adorn your spirit with kindness” and “sprinkle love” on your life.

          God’s Peace, Blessing and Abundant Life upon you, my brethren.

          With His Love,

          Dave

          • Stu on December 26, 2018 at 4:09 pm

            Thx Dave.

            I have indeed been brought to a body of believers that brightens my spirit. It was not without a price. I am not sure why you felt I was not a participant in the gathering together of his saints. I fully accept for myself that it was God’s desire—and plan—from the beginning.

            Hope you had a Merry Christmas and a bright New Year coming up.

            Grace and peace,
            Stu



          • fessdo on December 26, 2018 at 6:35 pm

            Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
            By that I would say God knew all of us before we were born, then in 2 Peter 3:8 it says But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
            Now if you divide 1000yrs into 24hrs you end up with 41.66yrs and if you died at 83.32yrs old, then in God’s eyes you’ve been gone from Him 2hrs.
            Do you think God is going to ask how many times were you at church these past 2hrs?



          • Son on December 26, 2018 at 10:39 pm

            fessdo, dear brother, there is no such thing as “time” with God. lol, “2 hours”.
            Let me please be succinct as to what I personally believe, fwiw:
            If God leads you to a church where you feel He is with you, and share fellowship in spirit and in truth with the body of Christ that abides in that church, you do well. I believe God approves of that. I hope that I have found that with my new church. I’m glad our brother Stu has, evidently, found that, or something similar that gives him fulfillment in his need and desire for Christian fellowship. And I pray that, God willing and you willing, ole buddy fessdo, that you might find that too.

            In His Spirit and with His Love,

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 26, 2018 at 10:51 pm

            No “time”?
            Then 2 Peter 3:8 shows that Peter didn’t just cusses some but also lied a little. He should have attended church a little more before doing all that writing.



          • Son on December 26, 2018 at 11:20 pm

            fessdo, I think the passage comparing God’s “time” to human “time” is simply an allegory to explain to mortal human beings, who exist in “time”, that “human time” cannot be compared to God’s “time”. It may seem that Jesus delays in returning for us, but our sense of “time” is entirely different than our sense of “time” if we could see through the eyes of God. With God, there is no “time” as we know it. He is infinite. Time is a function of aging, which we brought upon ourselves by disobeying God in The Garden of Eden. If it were not for aging and death, there would be no “time”. We would have no concept of “time”, just as we won’t when we are in His Kingdom of Heaven and live there forever.

            With all due respect, brother fessdo,

            Stay blessed.

            Your bro Dave



          • Son on December 26, 2018 at 11:31 pm

            Oh, one more thing that occurred to me, my old friend fessdo” you wrote, “Do you think God is going to ask how many times were you at church these past 2hrs?”
            So, let me ask you (I’m sure our buddy Gregg Powers would get a kick out of this), if you fornicated, stole, murdered and forsook God for your whole life, do you think God would condemn you to Hell for your behavior over these past 2 hours?”
            Jus’ wundrin….

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 26, 2018 at 11:45 pm

            Definition of time : the measured or measurable period during which an action, process, or condition exists or continues :
            Genesis 1:1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
            5.God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
            8.God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
            13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
            19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
            23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
            31 And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

            God’s “time”



          • fessdo on December 26, 2018 at 11:51 pm

            If you’re covered in the blood of Jesus you’re not going to hell. Their is no sin that the blood of Jesus did not destroy, but you have to receive that truth by faith and rest in it.



          • Richard on December 27, 2018 at 9:48 am

            I need help. I’m too weak to follow God the more I tried the more I get weaker. What can I do to be spiritually strong?



        • Stu on January 22, 2019 at 5:48 pm

          I wish Dave we had “Reply” buttons. Again, yours is missing. I just wanted to reciprocate the love you demonstrate and the position of lowliness in Christ you challenge me with. I recall a pastor being asked if he might forgive a murderer. The pastor said that “No,” he could not forgive him only, but that the murderer must also forgive him because both were sinners in need of forgiveness. I only wish that as many stand on their perch, they too would know they need to be forgiven. If only we spoke to each other as if we did, our perch would be cut in two.

          Grace to you brother.
          Stu

      • Lawrence on December 24, 2018 at 3:29 pm

        I’d agree most folks need the fellowship, opportunity to serve, encouragement, and exhortation for a optimal walk with Christ – but it galls me to see scripture misused to make the point, as so many do, and it also isn’t strictly required from what I can tell.

        It is certainly not required for believers to engage in social ritual at a specific location for salvation or worship (God is sufficient: John 4:20-24, Isaiah 61:6-7, Heb 4:15) and anyone who thinks God demands payment in exchange for being with Christ is grossly in error (Romans 6:23, Acts 8:18-21).

        >God has told us in His holy scripture that He wants us to gather together to worship Him in spirit and in truth. Hebrews 10:25 “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.”

        Hebrews 10:25 isn’t talking about worship, it’s talking about encouraging and exhorting one another. The very existence of this thread proves it’s not necessary to attend “church” rituals to accomplish that. Romans 12:1 clarifies that worship is about self sacrifice for God, which may involve fellowship but may not, depending on the circumstances.

        >”Go to church to be with Jesus.”

        II Corinthians 13:5 – Jesus is already in all believers whether or not they attend “church” services.

        • fessdo on December 24, 2018 at 8:09 pm

          Lawrence,
          I’ve found someone that agrees Heb 10:25 isn’t about going to church, thank you.
          Collins English Dictionary defines a “sacred cow” as “a person, institution, custom, etc, unreasonably held to be beyond criticism.” Among many Christians, there are sacred cow Bible passages. Hebrews 10:25 is one of them. It states, “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.”
          This verse is taken by virtually every church and every elder to mean that we should not stop attending church; that we should be in church every Sunday. Some even take the latter part of the verse to mean that, the closer we get in each week to Sunday, the more we should be exhorting one another to attend church. Many Bible scholars, who I must presume are afraid of upsetting the “sacred cow,” simply will not give an unbiased exposition of this verse.
          I know what it is like. I saw the truth of Hebrews 10:25 well over twenty years ago. But I looked the other way. I convinced myself that I must be wrong, and that, since everyone else says so, then this verse–despite what the Greek clearly says–must be saying that we are not to forsake “going to church.” And, particularly since there is no other Scripture that says we are to go to church, it is a fearful thing to give up the “sacred cow” of Hebrews 10:25. Nevertheless, all through those years, in the back of my mind, I knew full well that Hebrews 10:25 doesn’t address going to church at all. This verse addresses something altogether different. I hope that my confession will encourage others, who also know the truth of this verse, to also come clean.
          Verses 23 and 24
          What I intend to do is give an honest exposition of this verse, just as I would any other. I would encourage readers to read the whole of Hebrews 10 to get the context, but I will begin my exposition with verse 23: “Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;).” I won’t belabor you with details, but I will point out here that the word “faith” in the King James Version should really be “hope.” The Greek word is elpidos, and in every other place where it appears in the New Testament, it is translated as “hope.” So, this is talking about not wavering concerning our hope that our faithful God has promised. What is this hope?
          Certainly, there are many things for which we may hope. But the Scriptures often refer to our hope as the resurrection from the dead and our glorification at the return of Jesus Christ. In Acts 23:6, Paul refers to “the hope and resurrection of the dead.” Again, in Acts 24:15, Paul says that he has “hope toward God, which they themselves [the Pharisees] also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.” This same hope is what he refers to in Acts 26:6 and 28:20. In Romans 5:2, Paul writes of the “hope of the glory of God.” This is not referring to God’s essential glory, but to something we hope for in the future. That is, this is a reference to our hope in the glory that God will bestow upon us (see also Ephesians 1:18).
          This is also what Paul is talking about in Romans 8:19-25:
          For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
          There are many other passages I could cite, but I will give just two more. In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14, Paul again refers to the resurrection at the return of Jesus Christ as our hope: “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” In Titus 2:13, Paul says we should be, “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.”
          Getting back to Hebrews 10, in verse 24, we read, “And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works.” In context, then, because of our hope of glorification in the resurrection at the return of Christ, we are to keep one another in mind to incite each other to love and good works.
          Episunagōgē
          Hebrews 10:25 says we are not to forsake “the assembling of ourselves together.” “Assembling together” is from one Greek word. Its lexical form is episunagōgē. This word is a noun and it is found in only one other place: “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand” (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2). “Gathering together” is translated from episunagōgē. It is obvious in this passage that episunagōgē refers to our being gathered to Christ.
          There is a verb form of this word. It is episunagō. It is found in several verses. Let’s look at them.
          Matthew 23:37: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!” (a parallel verse is Luke 13:34). “Gathered” and “gathereth” are both from episunagō. Jesus uses the way a hen completely gathers her chicks to describe the way He desired to gather Jerusalem’s children (those who like children humbly wanted to come to Him–see here for more on this verse). Thus, episunagō is here used for a gathering to Christ.
          Matthew 24:30-31: “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other” (the parallel verse is in Mark 13:26-27). “They shall gather together” is from episunagō. Again, this is an obvious reference to a gathering to Christ.
          Mark 1:33: “And all the city was gathered together at the door.” “Gathered together” is translated from episunagō. Jesus was in a house healing the sick when all the city gathered at the door of the house. Although only a relatively small manifestation of such a gathering, this is again a gathering to Christ.
          Luke 12:1: “In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.” “When there were gathered together” is from the word episunagō. This verse speaks of a multitude of people gathered together to Christ.
          In every place where we find the verb episunagō, it is used to refer to a gathering of some sort to Christ. And in the only other place where the noun form episunagōgē is used, it is used for that great gathering to Christ on the day of His return and our resurrection. Thus, when we see episunagōgē used in Hebrews 10:25, we must begin to suspect that perhaps it does not refer to going to church on Sunday (or any other day of the week) but to something greater. Does this fit the context? Let’s see.
          The Day Approaching
          Again, the entire verse reads: “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.” Notice that, instead of forsaking, we are to be exhorting (the word can also mean beseeching or comforting) one another, and all the more as we see the day drawing near. What day?
          Just a little further in the chapter, we read this: “Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry” (verses 35-37). “He that shall come” is certainly a reference to Jesus Christ. We are to have patience (verse 36) in waiting for that day, the day of Christ’s return. But apparently some did not have patience and forsook the hope of our gathering to Christ at His return.
          The evidence from both the context and the words used is weighty. It clearly leads us to the conclusion that Hebrews 10:25 is saying that we are not to forsake the hope of our gathering to Christ at his return, as some had done, but instead we are to exhort one another concerning this hope, and we are to do this all the more as we see the day of His return approaching.
          Verses 26-27 then give the hypothetical case if we were to forsake the truth of this hope: “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” In other words, to forsake our glorious gathering to Christ is to forsake the very thing our salvation points to. It would be a forsaking of the truth and a willful sin. Anyone doing this would suffer the condemnation and fate of the adversaries. But remember, this is a hypothetical case. Verse 39 says, “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” God causes true Christians to persevere so that they cannot forsake their hope.
          Further Thoughts
          Hebrews 10:25 has been used to try to convince people that they must not forsake going to church. In fact, it is the only Scripture in the New Testament that could remotely have been used in such a way. But it is wrong to use it this way. The Greek and the context simply do not support it, and when we understand the true meaning of Hebrews 10:25, the entire idea of “going to church” as something we must do entirely falls apart.
          The truth is that the ekklēsia (the word mistranslated as “church” in most English Bibles) is not something we go to; it is what we are. As Christians, we cannot forsake our assembly because we are always assembled before God. We are the assembly, the “called out” of Christ. (The literal meaning of ekklēsia is the “called out ones,” but it was used by Greeks to refer to the people who were called out of the community to be members of the assembly.) Certainly, the Bible also speaks of the ekklēsia in a local sense as being in a city, according to (kata) houses or families, and as coming together (sunerchomai–literally, “come together”). But it is never spoken of as something apart from us that we go to, nor is our coming together locally ever spoken of as a duty. I will address this aspect further in another article.
          In summary, Hebrews 10:25 tells us not to forsake the promise and blessed hope (verse 23 and Titus 2:13) of our gathering to Jesus Christ at His coming (2 Thessalonians 2:1), which is the custom of some. Anciently, the Sadducees did not believe in a resurrection (see Matthew 22:23). Today, many who call themselves Christians, such as liberal theologians and full- or hyper-preterists, do not believe in a literal and future return of Jesus Christ and resurrection from the dead. Others who once had the name Christian also forsake their hope. Saying “my lord delayeth his coming” (Matthew 24:48) and “the resurrection is past already” (2 Timothy 2:18) are both errors. Hebrews 10:25 tells us that instead of forsaking the promise and hope, we are to be encouraging one another, and so much the more as we see the day of His return approaching.

          • sherry on December 27, 2018 at 4:18 pm

            Fessdo,
            You gave an excellent interpretation of truth! The way different modern translations have been written will make or break the truth of scripture. It takes a berean being led by the Holy Spirit to properly understand and give the truth. Thank you for that and for your dedication to research the intended meaning. On the same subject that’s also a missed interpretation is, “dont miss going to Church on the Lords day”
            The false interpretation is from Revelation when John was taken in the Spirit, witnessing what would take place on the “Day of the Lord”. That Day is not a day of worship, how church leaders claim it is, its a day of the Lords judgment, wrath, and darkness for the unrepentant sinner. And the one and only Day of the Lord as yet to come.



          • Son on December 27, 2018 at 5:02 pm

            Sherry, agree fessdo knows his stuff, scriptures and otherwise. Do you think that Jesus has the power to give each person their own personal interpretation of scripture, regardless of the version of bible, language, etc., in accordance with His Will and His Truth? And, do you think the relevance of any given scripture is personal between the individual and God or that there is an absolute truth in all scripture that requires interpretation by only a few anointed individuals and no one else?



        • Son on December 26, 2018 at 11:09 pm

          Brother Lawrence,
          “II Corinthians 13:5 – Jesus is already in all believers whether or not they attend “church” services.”
          But there is also, Matthew 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Me, myself, I prefer to have Him standing right there beside me as well as inside of me. The more Jesus is with me and in me, the better, as far as I’m concerned.
          Also, I think preachers such as Jim and Tammy Faye Baker and Joel Osteen, who work at getting rich in secular wealth through their preaching of The Gospel, are hypocrites and do not serve The Lord in spirit and in truth. They are a stumbling block to the body of Christ, the true believers. However, Paul made it clear that we, as the body of Christ, should willingly and with love, contribute to those whose calling by God is to preach the gospel and care for His flock. The issue is the motivation of the preacher/pastor/servant of The Lord. So, Lawrence, although I agree with you it’s a sin for the wolves to “fleece the flock” for their own personal aggrandizement, in order to worship material possessions and the fleshly accoutrements of the world and that they do not truly serve God, I do believe that those who serve the church and depend upon God for their daily bread should be supported by the body of Christ, whom they serve and devote their lives on this Earth.
          1 Corinthians 9:11-14 “If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.”
          Finally, this thread is, to me, a valuable and insightful forum through which we share fellowship in The Spirit of Christ, agreed. I, personally, prefer eye-to-eye contact and personal friendship and companionship with others who love, worship and strive to obey our blessed Lord and Savior Jesus to the impersonality of a computer screen. That being said, I do value the wisdom and exhortation of my beloved, esteemed brethren who participate in continuing this thread.
          With His Love,

          Dave

        • Son on December 27, 2018 at 12:10 pm

          @Richard – I think you should address fessdo for the answer to your question. Somehow, I think he can give you the answer.
          As for myself, I think I’ll just keep communing with Jesus, praying and reading The Bible and attending the church I have found to share my faith with others who are interested in sharing their faith in HIM with me. I am at peace with God, thanks to The Charity, Mercy and Grace of Jesus. I hope that you, too, will find that peace, Richard.

          Dave

        • Son on December 27, 2018 at 12:36 pm

          fessdo, do you think that Judas Iscariot ever truly believed that Jesus is The Christ?

          • fessdo on December 27, 2018 at 1:25 pm

            Judas was the treasurer (money man), I think he believed Jesus was a way to fill the bag not the soul.



          • Son on December 27, 2018 at 3:14 pm

            So THAT’S where Jim and Tammy Faye, etc., got the idea!



          • fessdo on December 27, 2018 at 3:39 pm

            Now that’s funny, but you have got me thinking. I always thought Judas got pissed at Jesus for giving the meeting money to the poor.
            John 13:29 “For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor”.
            The disciples wouldn’t have thought he was giving to the poor unless it was a habit with Jesus to do so. So it could have been that Judas was a con-man and a con-man’s thinking is everybody is running a scam, so all Jesus teach was just a scam to him???



          • Son on December 27, 2018 at 3:55 pm

            My point was that if Judas did not ever believe that Jesus is The Christ, why did Jesus allow Judas to stick around with the 11 other disciples until Judas betrayed Him? Wouldn’t Judas be a stumbling block to the other disciples, not to mention all whom Jesus taught? Jesus knew everything, so He had to know that Judas was a con-man from the start, if that were the case. If Judas DID, on the other hand, once truly believe that Jesus is The Christ, then Judas fell from Grace. Now, if one man can fall from Grace, is it not possible for ANY man to fall from Grace?



          • fessdo on December 27, 2018 at 4:21 pm

            God had to use somebody for the job and Judas was the man. As for falling from grace I think people who teach that it is possible to lose your salvation normally use several prooftexts. At first glance the verses do appear to prove their point. However, upon further study it becomes clear that they have taken the verses out of context and forced a meaning upon the text which the author never intended. A case in point is Galatians 5:4.
            I have had people point to Galatians 5:4 and say, “Doesn’t Paul say that at least some of the Galatian Christians had fallen from grace? And, if they could fall from grace, so can we today.”
            How did they take the verse out of context?
            We would agree that the book is addressed to Christians (Galatians 1:6,9; 5:1).
            We would also agree that some of the readers had fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4) and some were on the verge of doing so (Galatians 5:2).
            We would even agree that it is possible for believers today to fall from grace. The text clearly does not limit this falling to the Galatian Christians only. Any Christian who reverts to seeking to be justified by law has fallen from grace (Galatians 5:4).
            The problem is in the conclusion we draw, not in the premises. The whole issue here is what falling from grace means. Does it mean that the believers in question have fallen from their positional standing in grace? If it does, then Paul contradicts himself because in other passages he clearly states that is impossible (cf. Romans 8:38-39; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; Colossians 2:13-14; 1 Thessalonians 5:10; 2 Timothy 2:13). Since scripture is God’s Word, it cannot contradict itself. Thus, whatever Paul meant by falling from grace he did not mean falling from one’s position as a child of God.
            Is there not another obvious alternative, one which fits the context and Pauline and biblical theology perfectly? Falling from grace means that a believer who reverts to pharisaical thinking and practices has fallen from a present experience of grace. While our position in the grace of God is secure, our experience of His grace is not.
            If a believer today is unwittingly duped into joining a works-salvation cult, he will cease to experience God’s grace until he leaves the cult. In fact, if a believer joins any group, cult or otherwise, which teaches that we must produce good works in order to maintain our salvation, he will cease to experience grace. Even the linking of assurance to the quality of our lives can lead a believer to fall from a daily experience of grace.



          • Son on December 27, 2018 at 5:17 pm

            Well, fessdo, I can’t predict what God will do, but it has always been my belief that God’s Will is done. Judas was chosen to betray Jesus and I don’t believe there was a thing Judas could have done to prevent that.
            Night has fallen, Lewis, and there’s nothing we can do about it.
            I don’t have all the answers and I am not the most sophisticated guy when it comes to interpreting all of the small nuances of scripture. I just strive to connect with Jesus in all ways I can think of, including daily prayer, reading my bible, sharing in His Spirit with other believers, and communing with Him in my spirit. Our blessed, kind, generous Lord gives me a peace in my soul that let’s me know He loves me. I believe He will never desert me or forsake me. He never has and I believe He never will. I believe I can count on Jesus to the very end, to The Day of The Lord. I believe He will save me. I don’t need to examine every single facet of what is written in the bible to understand, in my soul, what I read there. And, if I do have a question about what is written in the bible or about God’s Grace, I ask my brethren, such as you, dear brother. I share all of this with those who read this thread and have ears to hear.
            Thank you, Jesus, for the peace that you give me, Lord.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 27, 2018 at 6:04 pm

            Dave,
            It’s obvious that you’re a man full of grace, the best definition for grace I ever heard is ” god’s ability in you to do what you don’t have the ability to do”. When you see a person with the amount of peace you have, people realize that no human ability has the power to produce peace like that. It’s only thru God’s power His ability in you that you can have such peace and rest. I will say if I could find a church with just a few Daves in it I would dust off the old Sunday dress shoes.



          • Son on December 27, 2018 at 6:30 pm

            You are too kind, my brother! And I hope God will lead you to a gathering, church or otherwise, of believers who share my view of our precious, perfect Lord Jesus (perhaps the church I attend at this time!) It’s a shame to waste those “old Sunday dress shoes”! ; )



          • Son on December 28, 2018 at 2:31 am

            One more thing I would like to reiterate to you, brother fessdo, and to anyone else who reads this blog: I realize that I, in my flesh, am the lowest snail dung at the bottom of the Marianas Trench. But for the sacrifice and grace of Jesus, who spilled His precious blood for an unworthy sinner like me, I am lost and without hope. I am humble and grateful in my thanks to Jesus for redeeming an unworthy sinner such as I am. All blessing, honor, glory and power unto The Most High, Who sitteth upon the throne and reighneth forever and ever and unto His only begotten Son, The Holy Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, Word of God made flesh, who hath redeemed me and preserved my soul unto eternal life in His Kingdom through HIS sacrifice! If there is ANYTHING worthy in me, or of grace in me, it is The Holy Spirit of our Lord Jesus! Hallowed be His Holy Name forever and ever! I am eternally humble and grateful to HIM. Amen.



        • John on January 10, 2019 at 7:40 pm

          look at all the sick poor alone people out there that don’t make it to church. the church say’s God will wink am eye for those pour souls. Sorry they never had a chance to speak or know Jesus at all. Sucks believing Jesus faith and being more run down for it. better time all ways thought in the future but no not yet.

          • John on January 10, 2019 at 7:47 pm

            DAVE/ FESSDO/SON Howdy brothers in Jesus and a few more



          • fessdo on January 10, 2019 at 9:07 pm

            John Boy,
            Try again tomorrow before you get to deep into that six pack, you’ll make more sense then.
            Fessdo



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 10:42 am

            Fessdo, you never fail to make me laugh. How do you come up with this stuff? lololol!

            God bless you, dear brother!

            Dave



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 10:47 am

            John, this world is an f’d up place. No doubt about that. And all we have is Jesus to hold out any hope that things will ever be better. What would we do without Jesus? As one sister/friend of my says, “Surely we would perish.” So, praise God, thank God, bless God for sending us His Only Begotten Son to give us hope that we may live forever with Him in His perfect kingdom of Heaven. If we never lived here on earth, we wouldn’t have the chance to live forever with Him in Paradise.

            With His Love,

            Dave



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 11:46 am

            John, our Lord told me to share some scriptures with you, so here you go:
            Revelation 21:4
            “He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”
            Matthew 11:28
            “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”
            Romans 8:18
            “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.”
            James 2:5
            “Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?”
            2 Corinthians 8:9
            “For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich.”
            Luke 6:20-21
            “And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. “Blessed are you who are hungry now, for you shall be satisfied. “Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.”
            Mark 10:31
            “But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.”

            Peace to you, brother John.

            Dave



          • John on January 11, 2019 at 5:04 pm

            Dave ‘. thanks for the Bible verses and i sure need the faith to continue in believe. Son-of thanks also. i used to be johnboy on on site some were. i don’t drink but was put on a very nasty medication for a little rash . medication called prednisone triamcinolone- steroid a year ago for only 2 days. it put me through steroid psycosis and other shit – depression recovering though. i have a sick phsycotic drunk next door on mental disability . he i bindge drinks every 3 days in a role bangs on floor lowd sucky music night and day. i talked with him about God JESUS and it made him worse. he keeps making threats and i want to call cops or go crazy. i just moved here a month ago from a place i lived for 20 years . this is the place i get from a church and people praying for me to fined some pease. well any way . sorry for my spelling. i just want to know i am saved in my sin and the Lod Jesus Christ would give me a more feeling of knowing i am saved. sorry i am still having confused depressed fog brain recovering from this not aproved steroid by the FDA made in newangland. thanks and i hope i can keep up with you



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 6:04 pm

            Bro John, needless to say, you have to get off the booze and drugs. Maybe try walking, or something instead. Jesus loves you no matter what but you should at least try to meet Him halfway, right? Just lighten up some on getting f’d up, do it for Him, and see if it doesn’t help some in connecting with Him.
            Romans 8:38-39
            “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
            You are at The Lord’s Mercy, brother. NONE OF US HAS FAITH. Whatever faith you have, whatever faith I have, it is a gift from God. Try to live in accordance with His Will for your life. I just don’t think He wants you to crash and burn. I don’t think He wants that for any of us, especially those such as you whom He has chosen to believe that He has redeemed us and saved us unto eternal life in His Kingdom.
            Please try to go just a little less hard at the stuff that messes with your body and your brain. Maybe, wait until later in the day to start anesthetizing, capisce? Break away from the pattern, bro. Find a way.
            Ephesians 2:8
            “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”

            With His Love for you, bro John

            Dave



          • John on January 11, 2019 at 7:03 pm

            i am not on booz only a medication. i do walk and also a piano key boardest. i work on my truck and repare things and any thing i can possibly doo! i don’t know but do you go to a hospital or doctor for any injury? God with us son-of



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 7:05 pm

            Brother Fessdo,
            It is obvious that you have been blessed by God with a spirit of discernment. I laughed at how you chided John about getting out of his cups with your matchless, ironic sense of humor, which I personally embrace, but you were absolutely right in your assessment, it now appears. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and experience with me and our brethren on this thread. I greatly respect you and consider you very dear to me, brother Fessdo, as brother in His Spirit and I’m sure that you are held in the same esteem by many others who read this forum but do not write here, as well.. Of this, I am sure.
            Please stay with us and share your gifts from The Lord with us. I am thankful that Jesus put you here.

            With His Love,

            Your bro Dave



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 8:06 pm

            Listen, brother John, you need to realize that I am not Jesus or anything close to that. I do not have the power to deal with the world’s problems, or yours, or even my own.
            I am willing to serve The Lord when and how He prompts me and I have tried to share His Love with my brethren on this thread.
            My gut reaction to your comments is to tell you that you need to eliminate the substance-induced confusion that is muddling your thinking and damaging your soul. Only Jesus can set you on the straight and narrow path that leads to His Kingdom. I believe He will be faithful to you in doing just that. So, commune with Jesus, read your bible and learn His Word and trust Him to bring you to the place you need to be, in accordance with his perfect Will. That is the best I can share with you.
            Like The Allman Brothers sang, “Now, I ain’t no saint and I sure as hell ain’t no savior.”
            I, too, deal with the demons and problems that plague me on this earthly plane. But, Jesus is always there to guide me and renew me, when I get tired and weak, praise God. You need to turn to Him. you have that choice available to you. You believe that Jesus is The Lord, right? He can do what I cannot. And try to remember that there are always those in this world that must deal with even more difficult trials than you face as a man. And me, too.

            All praise and glory to Jesus.

            Dave

            May God bless you, brother.



          • John on January 11, 2019 at 8:27 pm

            Dave i got ya AND NEED Jesus at my weak points not my strong. almond bro yes. i believe in Jesus is helping more than i will ever know. bro Dave thanks for your helping pro- more than you may think. i need to read more scrip- and love to listen to you guys.



          • Son on January 22, 2019 at 12:47 pm

            Brother John, I was ready to give up on this forum, but I’ll stick around to give whatever help Jesus enables me to provide to others. Just depend upon Jesus. Your life is in God’s Hands and you will live in accordance with His Will. So be it. Be thankful that Jesus is with you.
            Luke 9:23
            “Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. ”
            John 15:19
            “If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.”
            God chose YOU, out of the world, to give faith in Him to you. What is more important than that? What is more important than where we shall spend all of eternity?
            Mark 8:36
            “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”
            Be thankful for the faith God has given to you and will not take away. Jesus is not an Indian-giver. He has given you eternal life in Paradise. Hang on to that thought, brother John.
            Be humble and grateful. Amen.

            Your bro in Jesus,

            Dave



      • Chris on January 9, 2019 at 12:52 pm

        Dave, Jesus also said to Tithe 10%. So it is very unfortunate to hear that you only make $50 a week by your (10%) weekly $5 bill that you “toss” into the collection jar.

        • Son on January 9, 2019 at 1:28 pm

          Hi Chris,
          Would you please refer me to the passage in the Bible where Jesus “said to Tithe 10%”?

          TIA

          Dave

          • fessdo on January 9, 2019 at 3:00 pm

            Dave,
            Don’t hold your breath on Chris getting you an answer, he’s just another one who has heard about but NOT read the bible. The word tithes is only in the new testament 5 times, once in Luke 18 about The Pharisee standing and praying (or bragging) about tithing and four times in Hebrew, nowhere did Jesus say tithes under the new covenant. To work in tithing in the church today you have to get under the old law.

            Fessdo



          • Son on January 9, 2019 at 3:54 pm

            Yeah, fessdo, I figured I wouldn’t hear back from Chris with an answer to my question. He must be a Catholic having a rough day. He doesn’t seem to be too worried about judging others, based upon his comments so far. Evidently, he hasn’t read the bible enough to be familiar with the passage about “remove the plank from your own eye before you attempt to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.” And evidently, he’s been brainwashed by the good ole Catholic church into thinking that God commands us to tithe.
            Catholics – gotta love ’em. They kind of remind me of Jews under the Mosaic law, in a way.
            Customs of men…how ’bout them rosary beads! ; ) And you gotta love the costumes their highest dignitaries dress up in for special occasions. lol – I just don’t think Jesus would have worn one of those Ronald McDonald outfits.
            All praise, honor, glory and power to our precious Lord Jesus, who guides his children to do His Will through the prompting of His blessed Holy Spirit. Amen.



        • fessdo on January 9, 2019 at 4:22 pm

          Oh Dave,
          LOL I needed that chuckle today, but you know in order to afford one of those ” Ronald McDonald outfits” the people have to tithe.
          Fear or greed is the only way
          you can sell tithing to churches todays.

          • Son on January 9, 2019 at 10:25 pm

            I wish I could attach a picture to emphasize the ornateness and presumptuousness of the outfits worn by the Catholic hierarchy on special occasions, brother Fessdo. Anyone can Goodgle the subject to fully appreciate my meaning in referring to the absurdity of the lengths these Catholic “dignitaries” go to make themselves appear as gods among the common people.. Well, I cannot save the world. Jesus has already done that and I am certainly not able to tie the laces on His sandals. I can’t help but have a laugh, even though the Catholic Church, which enslaves its followers, and that’s not funny, is such an obvious scam. Customs of man.
            John 4:24 “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
            God does not and NEVER dressed up like Ronald McDonald to capture the worship of the flock and collect “tithes”. What foolishness that way of thinking is..



        • John on January 11, 2019 at 8:38 pm

          Dave i got ya AND NEED Jesus at my weak points not my strong. almond bro yes. i believe in Jesus is helping more than i will ever know. bro Dave thanks for your helping pro- more than you may think. i need to read more scrip- and love to listen to you guys.

          • John on January 11, 2019 at 10:31 pm

            Imean i need Jesus at my strong points ,not my week ,for when i feel good i am bad and when feeling bad sick and begging for Jesus then i am more to the good.



          • Son on January 11, 2019 at 11:45 pm

            Brother John,
            As long as you are depending on Jesus to get you through this thing we call “Life, you will be just fine. Jesus will find a way for you in His Perfect Will. Jesus is our life. We have no life without HIM.

            Stay blessed,

            Your bro Dave



          • fessdo on January 12, 2019 at 8:25 am

            2 Corinthians 1:8-11 The Message (MSG)
            8-11 We don’t want you in the dark, friends, about how hard it was when all this came down on us in Asia province. It was so bad we didn’t think we were going to make it. We felt like we’d been sent to death row, that it was all over for us. As it turned out, it was the best thing that could have happened. Instead of trusting in our own strength or wits to get out of it, we were forced to trust God totally—not a bad idea since he’s the God who raises the dead! And he did it, rescued us from certain doom. And he’ll do it again, rescuing us as many times as we need rescuing. You and your prayers are part of the rescue operation—I don’t want you in the dark about that either. I can see your faces even now, lifted in praise for God’s deliverance of us, a rescue in which your prayers played such a crucial part.



          • Son on January 12, 2019 at 1:53 pm

            Right on, Fessdo. You always come up with a pertinent, applicable scripture to address the situation!

            God bless you, bro!

            Dave



        • John on January 22, 2019 at 5:28 pm

          Thanks Dave’. Jesus would stay i think. the feeling of some one human created from God and or perish burn in hell for all eternity is a very scary sad thing to have to believe and hope all Gods creation does not perish, even my worst enemy . for they are human the same as i need to for give them as true with in my best understanding under God. Jesus saved the none believer next to him on the cross , we live with blind faith to grow in spirit and faith should help see Jesus in our heat like the man next to Jesus. Thanks Brother John

          • Son on January 23, 2019 at 2:05 pm

            John, bro, I was thinking of you yesterday and I came across this scripture when our sister Talitha referred us to read in Romans. Thought I would share it with you and hopefully it brings you comfort from HIM.
            Romans 8:18
            “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.”

            With His Love,

            Your bro Dave



    • Paul Noblin on December 28, 2018 at 2:35 am

      I was thrown out of Church because I believe that the past changes. I also questioned my pastor. He also told me that I am going to hell. He told me that I was not welcome in his office unless he was notified, so that he could get two other people to attend. He would not answer his telephone when I called. This is the first church that he pastored.
      I have been going to other churches occasionally. Sometimes, I still attend the eleven o’clock service at this (my) church. In the place of a sermon, he reads a chapter of the Bible. I told him that he had not been pasteurized, yet. The church congregation is small and elderly. It is dying.
      I found The Key to the Universe. The place where I get the most resistance is in church leadership. They jump to preposterous conclusions. They say that I think that I am Jesus Christ. I don’t. Still, I have found The Key to the Universe.

      The Key to the Universe;
      Revelation One Nineteen
      Write down a brief account of your day, your problems that day, and a list of tasks to do the next day.
      ©1985 Paul Noblin

      Read Rev.1:19 (KJV).
      “Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;”
      Write down the past, present, and future.
      Align your inside mind with the outside world (reality including Christ), and you will be one with All.

      I have also solved the mystery of 666.
      It’s all done with approximations.

      Take the age of menopause. Subtract the age of the puberty. This is the years of sex life a woman has. Multiply this by 12, this will be the number of months a woman is sexually active. Multiply this by 2 (for the rhythm method of birth control), adjust downward because women live longer in modern times.

      The AVERAGE woman can sleep with 666 men in her life time.
      An AVERAGE man cannot come close to that.

      Here it is. It is the number of a man (men). It also has something to do with the nature of evil.

      When this pastor leaves, I will regularly attend all of the church services. In the mean time, I won’t be going to church. I hope that the church will still be intact after he leaves.
      This pastor grew tomatoes for a living before he was elected to be a pastor. A week before he threw me out of church, he told me that he used to grow a lot of marijuana in between his rows of tomatoes. I really do not think that believing the past changes is the reason for him to throw me out. I am a Practicing Disciple of Jesus Christ and I have read every word of the Bible, twice.
      Keeping a notebook does little harm. I hope that someone benefits from this post. I really do have a copyright on one sentence.

      Warm Regards… Paul.
      Jesus saves. There is only one path to Heaven. The only way to be on this straight and narrow path is through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is truly the Son of God. Praise be to our Lord. May God’s will be done.

      • fessdo on December 28, 2018 at 8:31 am

        P.N.
        You said ” I really do not think that believing the past
        changes is the reason for him to throw me out”,,,, If I was the pastor that would more than do it for me. Your pastor must be a pretty big boy just to want two bodyguard around when you show up, I would want at lease four with me.

        • Son on December 28, 2018 at 2:45 pm

          fessdo, LOVE your sense of humor. Personally, I was at a loss as to what kind of response to give to PN.
          What is his point? PN, just find a new church and stay off the weed! that should solve your problem.
          Jesus reigns.

          God bless you guys.

          Dave

          • Paul Noblin on December 29, 2018 at 1:43 am

            Dave,
            I never smoke weed.
            I made a few points. I shared The Key to the Universe and my solution to the mystery of 666. I also tried to explain why I don’t go to Church anymore. Perhaps, I should take your advice and simply find a new church. You are probably right. I think that I will do just that.
            I want to make another point. I have been promised eternal life. The instant before I die, God will beam me up. A body will be left behind, but I will be in a new spiritual one. Christians never die. That sounds odd, but that is what I believe.

            Warm Regards… Paul.



        • Paul Noblin on December 29, 2018 at 1:14 am

          After reading your notes to me, I thought about what you said for more than a few hours. I want to thank you. I am not being sarcastic. You payed me a great compliment. Few people can see my perspective. Have a great day… Paul.

      • Son on December 29, 2018 at 1:46 pm

        Brother Paul, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with my response to your message. Some of the things you said sounded a little psycho, hence fessdo’s response, I imagine. What did you mean by saying, “The past changes?”
        Also, I can understand why some people would think you flipped by say things such as, “I have the Key to the Universe” and “I understand the meaning of 666?” Kinda nutty, if you ask me. 1 Corinthians 8:2 tells us, ” And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.” Perhaps you might reflect on that scripture before claiming to know things that may or may not be absolute reality. As Festus said to Jesus in Acts 26:24, “And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad.” And no, Paul, you are definitely NOT Jesus Christ.
        As to your belief that we shall never die as Christians, I have the tendency to think, although I do not know for sure, that you may be correct.
        I would cite John 8:51, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.” and also Hebrews 9:27, “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” So that, if we have died to our flesh as believers of Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf, we have already died once.
        There just may be multiple raptures. For example, I get hit by a truck. You think I died. But, just before that truck hit me, I see Jesus on a cloud surrounded by His heavenly host and am raptured up into the clouds to be with Him forever in His Holy Kingdom of Heaven. Right now, we don’t know. It is simply speculation.
        Every night I pray, “Maranatha, dear Lord Jesus, come soon, Lord, come back right now if it may be your Will and rapture me up into the air and take me to Heaven to spend all of eternity worshipping, serving, obeying, praising and glorifying you and our Holy Father and to live in perfect peace, harmony, bliss and ecstasy with the holy angels and my beloved brethren in your chosen flock!”
        I appreciate your heartfelt (I think) response to my somewhat derisive comment. There may be hope for you yet, son. God’s Peace and Blessing and Wisdom be upon you now and forever, my brother.

        With His Love,

        Dave

        • Son on December 29, 2018 at 1:51 pm

          typo correction: Festus said to PAUL in Acts 26:24

          Dave

      • Chris on January 9, 2019 at 1:03 pm

        Paul,
        Buddy, first and foremost, look up the word “pasteurized”. In your statement “I told him that he had not been pasteurized, yet.” you are killing me here.

        No comment on the rest of your message, I still count stop laughing from this one.

    • Robin Baldwin on December 29, 2018 at 8:50 pm

      Well said.

    • Carey Nieuwhof on January 2, 2019 at 7:06 am

      Lawrence, it’s hard to keep up with all the comments on posts like this, but after reading yours…I just want to thank you for what you said. Indeed, don’t give up. We need people like you to carve a better future.

    • Son on January 2, 2019 at 9:50 pm

      Well, fessdo, ole buddy, if you are depending upon this thread for sharing in Jesus’ spirit, you must be somewhat disappointed at this point by the lack of enthusiasm here. I’m sure glad I belong to a church now where I can share fellowship, warmth and friendship with my brothers and sisters. I hope that you have found a church with some “Daves” ; ) lol.
      The discourse/conversation on this forum is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD. Just like some of the churches I have attended in the bad old days. “Well said”, gee, that’s really inspirational and accretive to encouraging further conversation about the issues with which we, as followers of Christ, should ponder.

      God bless you, brother.

      Dave

      • fessdo on January 3, 2019 at 8:22 am

        Dave,
        1 Kings 19:11-13 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
        11 Then the Lord said to Elijah, “Go, stand in front of me on the mountain. I, the Lord, will pass by you.”[a] Then a very strong wind blew. The wind caused the mountains to break apart. It broke large rocks in front of the Lord. But that wind was not the Lord. After that wind, there was an earthquake. But that earthquake was not the Lord. 12 After the earthquake, there was a fire. But that fire was not the Lord. After the fire, there was a quiet, gentle voice.[b]
        13 When Elijah heard the voice, he used his coat to cover his face and went to the entrance to the cave and stood there. Then a voice said to him, “Elijah, why are you here?”

        1 Corinthians 3:5-7 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
        5 Is Apollos so important? Is Paul so important? We are only servants of God who helped you believe. Each one of us did the work God gave us to do. 6 I planted the seed and Apollos watered it. But God is the one who made the seed grow. 7 So the one who plants is not important, and the one who waters is not important. Only God is important, because he is the one who makes things grow.
        Fessdo,

        • Son on January 3, 2019 at 11:07 am

          fessdo – my wife suffered from pain in her legs at night. I had prayed to Jesus many times to heal her, with no results. I asked a brother at the church I now attend to pray with me for her. He did not offer to pray for her, but reminded me about how Jesus put mud on the eyes of the blind man and told him to wash in the pool of Siloam and the man was healed and could see. He then commented that Jesus could have just said, “You are healed” and healed the blind man, but, as my brother at church told me, it took an act of faith on the part of the blind man to complete the miracle of healing. He suggested I get some “EmergenC” and some plain gelatin and give it to my wife, which I did. Her leg pain went away. When I gave her the supplements, I believed they would heal her. I acted on faith. My brother at church was the reason I was given the opportunity to act on faith in Jesus. That is why I need fellowship at church: because my brethren there can add to my knowledge of and appreciation for the ways of God, enrich me in my faith through the sharing of His Holy Spirit. He gave us brethren for a reason.
          “When two or three are gathered in my name, I am there also.”
          1 John 1:7 “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
          Perhaps The Lord leads you to a different path than me. I do believe that if you have God’s “peace that passeth all understanding”, you are saved and justified in your faith, but the enrichment of your spirit by association with other spirit-led Christians is truly edifying and is a blessing from God. This I also believe.

          Dave

          • fessdo on January 3, 2019 at 12:21 pm

            The brother at church was right in not praying, Jesus NEVER did pray for the sick. You tell 99.9% of todays church people that and they’ll look at you like you’re crazy. I’ve told people that I will NOT pray for your sickness but I will curse that sickness and command it to leave your body in Jesus name, and they will tell me “oh that’s ok I’ll pass, maybe God is getting glory out of my sickness”. Sad but true people will rather stay ill than leave their tradition even though their tradition doesn’t work. The best definition of a fool is someone doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Just ask yourself how many people in todays church would let Jesus put mud in their eye.
            Looks like you did find a good one Dave.
            Fessdo,



          • Son on January 3, 2019 at 1:10 pm

            Well, I hope you don’t give up trying to find a “good one”, brother fessdo. Fellowship with other spirit-filled, Jesus-minded Christians is a blessing from God. May he lead you on the path of peace and righteousness, my brother.

            Dave



    • Linda Bailey on January 13, 2019 at 5:51 am

      “Remeber the Sabbath and keep it holy”…….the 4th Commandment. Nowhere in Scripture does Christ or God change the Sabbath. The Sabbath is the 7th day of the week. The 10 Commandments were not “nailed to the cross” when Christ was crucified. He came to fulfill the law, not do away with it. We are told by Christ to not add to or take away from His Word. I personally cannot assemble with believers who gather together on Sunday as their day of worship. The Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday by the Catholic Church. Hence, churches all over the world have submitted to the Catholic Church and not to Christ. I am not a 7th Day Adventist. I am a true believer in Christ and His Word. Churches must submit to Christ, not other entities.

      • fessdo on January 13, 2019 at 10:03 am

        Linda,
        What does it mean to you that Jesus ” fulfill the law”?

  25. Gary V Carter on December 10, 2018 at 8:30 am

    “You don’t go to church. You are the church?” No. Impossible. “Church” is a collective noun. To say “You are the church” is like saying “You are the team.” That only works in tennis and golf not hockey or football. “You don’t go to church.” True! “You are the church.” False. If you give a person the “right” to say church is singular then they can have a perfectly unified church of one. Again. Impossible.

    However, the main sentiments you are expressing are bang on. The New Testament never contemplates a Christian who doesn’t meet with others. In fact, it commands against it. Hebrews 10:24-25.

    • Son on December 10, 2018 at 11:03 am

      In Hebrews 10:25, we read “but exhorting one another”. Herein is where the conflict lies with organized churches. In too many of them, the “leadership” of the church is selfish, prideful and
      authoritative, ignoring the needs of the flock and reveling in their position of power. “Lording it over the sheeples”, is how I would put it. In a truly functional, Christian-oriented church, the leadership is about tending to and serving their flock, humble, and in obedience with our Lord’s instruction in Mark 9:35 “And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.” Personally speaking, I have not given up on finding a true church led by The Love of Jesus and His Holy Spirit. I attended a church yesterday where I have hope of that being the case, but the jury is out until I have been to that church more times to confirm that my perception is genuine. Although I have met with discouraging results in the two previous churches with which I attempted to join in fellowship (prideful, arrogant, elitist leadership, apathetic congregation), I retain the hope that God will lead me to a church that truly represents the body of Christ.

      Dave

      • Stu on December 10, 2018 at 11:28 am

        ” Although I have met with discouraging results in the two previous churches with which I attempted to join in fellowship (prideful, arrogant, elitist leadership, apathetic congregation), I retain the hope that God will lead me to a church that truly represents the body of Christ.”

        Hi Dave. I just wanted to push back a little. When I look for “me” in the Church, I have already forsaken it. Unless I expect to fully see Jesus in all of my relationships (even in only one of my relationships), I have missed the point that I am a messy human being who makes lots of messes; but God thinks I am a mess worth making. The idea of God leading me to “my” perfect church is fallacious even from its onset. We are not supposed to be led to a perfect body of believers, but to flawed, failed, sick people who all need Jesus; and to the extent that we know that, we can be that offering and sacrifice that Jesus wants us to be. No one except Christ of course is that perfect offering and sacrifice.

        One of my best friends—a brother—lied to me. He came to visit me when I was sick. I questioned him, and he admitted that he lied. I felt discouraged, hurt, and untrusting. But he said to me plainly, “If you are expecting to see Christ in everything I do, you will make the same mistake with every person you meet.” He was right on Dave. Christ is our hope and our ideal, and our prayer—but we have not reached it yet. We see only dimly that perfect Christ we hope to attain. I cannot therefore expect it from my brothers and sisters. We are all messy people, but we are messes worth making. Just some thoughts, brother.

        • Son on December 10, 2018 at 11:39 am

          Thanks for the feedback, brother Stu. I’ll let you know how things work out with my new church. I still entertain the hope that there is a church out there where I sense the presence of Jesus and share His Spirit/Presence with the body of the church.

          • Son on December 10, 2018 at 4:13 pm

            I generally did not have conflicts with the congregation at the churches I abandoned. It was the leadership that turned me off. They reminded me of The Pharisees back when our Lord walked on the earth.
            Read Matthew 23 for a nearly perfect description of those prideful, arrogant, self-indulgent church “leaders”. Jesus cursed them, basically. He certainly didn’t seem to hold out any hope for them to change their ways.



    • fessdo on December 10, 2018 at 11:03 am

      Gary V.
      That sounds right, but my question is can a person confess with his mouth that Jesus is lord then believe in his heart that God raise Jesus from the dead, be saved and then for the next 40yrs not go to a church, then die and go to heaven?
      Thanks,

      • Son on December 11, 2018 at 2:36 pm

        Ha ha, fessdo, I still love your sense of humor, even if the humor is unintentional.
        What you mean here, I gather, is that if a man accepts Jesus as His Lord and Savior, believes that Jesus has saved him and then gets marooned on a deserted island for the rest of his life immediately after he believes and is saved, will Jesus bring him to His Kingdom of Heaven to live in The Glory of God forever, even though, obviously, he never attends a service in a building called a “church” with other followers/disciples of Christ? If you ask Gregg, he might respond, “Only if that man doesn’t make a habit of having sex with the monkeys on the island.”
        I think I already know what you will say about that. Ha ha ha, you’re a trip, bro.

        Dave

      • fessdo on December 11, 2018 at 4:43 pm

        Dave,
        I knew Gary V wouldn’t have an answer here, he’s the type that has problems with the deep questions (the one that take a yes or no). Reminds me of the old town drunk that staggered in to a revival meeting one night and sat in the back to get warm. When the preacher saw him he told the drunk that God was a loving forgiving god and would he like to get saved? The old drunk said oh God won’t save me I’ve been no good all my life, but the preacher said you don’t understand how loving and forgiving God is, and the old drunk got up and said I’ve been too bad to be saved and left. The next night the same thing happened, the old drunk staggered in drunk as a dog and the preacher and a few more workers started in with how loving and forgiving God is but after a while the drunk got up and said I’ve been way to bad for God to forgive and love me then left. This went on for all week with more and more people each night telling the drunk how loving and forgiving God is and he would leave telling them how bad he was and God wouldn’t love or forgive him. Then on the six night everyone was so focused on the drunk telling him how loving and forgiving God is, that the old drunk accepted Jesus as his Lord and was saved. Everyone was so happy telling him you see God is a loving and forgiving god he agreed and promised to come back the next day. On the seventh day he returned drunker than ever and when the people saw him they gasped, one by one told him how bad he was and that God would punished him for this and he wouldn’t be allowed in heaven and would have to spend eternity in hell. The old drunk looked up with tears streaming down and asked “what happened to the loving and forgive God that saved me”?

        • Son on December 11, 2018 at 6:44 pm

          Great story, ole pal fessdo! ROTFLMAO! I knew you’d come up with something good after that deserted island analogy. btw, whatever happened to our esteemed nemesis, Gregg? He’s been silent. ????

          • Son on December 11, 2018 at 7:03 pm

            In all seriousness here: I’m having this discussion/argument with the pastor at my new church, Faith Family Church, which has impressed me since I recently began attending. I like the pastor and the members of the congregation whom I have met so far.
            Free Will vs. determinism. I wrote about how God saved me by putting into my head the thought of Calvin’s doctrine of “The Elect”. Do we have “free will”? I say, “No”. God already knows what we will do, what we will choose, before we were even born. God’s Will is done. You better hope God’s Will is done, or Satan still has a chance. God is not an Indian Giver. If He saves you, He has saved you! Romans 10:9 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” God never lies. You can believe Him. He will always find a way for His children, His chosen, to emerge victorious. If not, there is no hope for any of us.

            Stay blessed, dear brother fessdo!

            Dave



          • Son on December 11, 2018 at 7:07 pm

            And, dare I bring up the subject of Judas Iscariot? Was he pre-destined to betray our/his Lord? Perhaps, he never really believed that Jesus IS The Lord. Doan know…



    • Susan Morris on December 14, 2018 at 11:53 am

      My daughter, now 35, was raised in church. It breaks my heart to know she has no interest in church. I now have
      a grandson with another one on the way. My greatest fear is that they will never know Jesus. She tells me she believes in God, but not Jesus. Her beliefs are more aligned with what the Jews believe. She has lost her way and I don’t know if she will ever find her way back. She told me recently, “There is so much hypocrisy in the church”. I told her that there are bad people in ALL professions. We are not perfect and yes, there IS hypocrisy in the church. I also told her, you have to decide if you would rather spend a few short years here on earth with them, or an eternity with them…..
      it’s your decision. Please pray for her.

      • Son on December 14, 2018 at 12:24 pm

        James 5:16
        “Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.”

      • Stu on December 14, 2018 at 12:25 pm

        Hi Susan. Thank you for the request to pray for your daughter. I did. It should be every parent’s wish to see their children come to know the Lord. My boy has walked away from Jesus. My sister and my wife do not know him. There are thousands of families who don’t. But keep praying. The parable of the judge and the old widow was given to us by the Lord to remind us never to give up praying. God loves to do what we consider to be the impossible. It is a miracle to know Christ—something impossible for us to do on our own—but Jesus delights in our asking. Don’t give up.

        • Son on December 14, 2018 at 12:29 pm

          ” It is a miracle to know Christ—something impossible for us to do on our own.”
          I agree, brother Stu.
          John 15:16
          “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.”

          • Stu on December 14, 2018 at 10:29 pm

            Thank you for your words of encouragement and agreement. I also like the declaration given in the next verse: “This is my command; love each other.” I thought about why this command was given several times in the OT yet why John thought he should include it again in the NT. I thought perhaps that it is because the whole world is against us, but Jesus is reminding the brothers that all we have are one another while we live here. Instead of pecking and picking at one another as we see the “birds “of the world doing, it is better to overlook the small things said about us and consider those who are looking for something greater in life. Just my two cents. Thanks for your reply. 🙂



        • fessdo on December 14, 2018 at 6:51 pm

          Stu,
          Ever heard that “hypocrites love to pray”?
          Matthew 6:5 King James Version (KJV)
          5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

      • fessdo on December 14, 2018 at 5:21 pm

        Susan,
        I would like to help you but what do you mean “Please pray for her”?

        • Son on December 14, 2018 at 6:16 pm

          Ho ho ho, old pal fessdo, I KNEW that was coming. I thought it but didn’t come right out and say it.

          • Son on December 14, 2018 at 6:26 pm

            Night has fallen, Lewis.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 14, 2018 at 6:40 pm

            Hosea 4:6 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
            6 “My people are destroyed because they have no knowledge.



          • Son on December 15, 2018 at 7:01 pm

            John 6:44
            “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
            John 15:16
            “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you.”
            Revelation 20:15
            “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
            I would suggest, Susan, that your daughter needs to get down on her knees and EARNESTLY, SINCERELY, SOLEMNLY, IMPORTUNATELY PRAY for herself, that it might be God’s Will that Jesus reveal Himself to her through His Holy Spirit. Her immortal soul is at stake. You should attempt to bring this FACT to her realization. Jesus loves her and I’m sure He would answer her heartfelt, fervent request to Him to come into her life. That is the only way she will worship, obey and adore our Lord and Savior Jesus. She has to want to know The Truth.

            Blessings to you from our Father in Heaven and His Only Begotten, Holy Son, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 15, 2018 at 9:13 pm

            Dave,
            Unless Susie’s little girl is not a “whosoever” as described is John 3:16 she’s screwed?



          • Son on December 16, 2018 at 3:39 pm

            fessdo, re: “Unless Susie’s little girl is not a “whosoever” as described is John 3:16 she’s screwed?”
            1.Read Romans 2 regarding God’s judgment of people
            2.Matthew 19:26 “But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”
            3. I’m not the judge, so I’m not going to judge anyone. Matthew 7:1
            “Judge not, that ye be not judged.”
            However, I recommend to Susie that she explain to her “little girl” of 35 years old that it’s better to be friends with Jesus than to not know Him at all. That would give her some reassurance.
            What do you think, in answer to the question you just asked me?

            God bless, brother.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 16, 2018 at 4:23 pm

            It’s very easy to receive Jesus as your Lord and savior but the hard an almost impossible part is to believe that God made it so simple. When a person goes past the KISS method to receiving from God he’s messing with God’s perfect way (My yoke is easy My burden is light).
            No where in the bible does it say to pray for the lost to be saved, Jesus said ask God for laborers. Matthew 9:37-38 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) 37 Jesus said to his followers, “There is such a big harvest of people to bring in. But there are only a few workers to help harvest them. 38 God owns the harvest. Ask him to send more workers to help gather his harvest.”
            Susan daughter won’t listen to her, but God knows someone that she will listen to, so Susan should ask God to send that person to her daughter and pray that once in faith believing that it’s a done deal. God is not a unjust judge so you don’t have to keep reminding him day after day like those hypocrites that love to pray. Mat 6:5



          • Son on December 16, 2018 at 7:07 pm

            brother fessdo, you make a very good point. Amen to what you said about “KISS” ing it with God.
            God brought this scripture, also, to my attention to share with you and Susan (if she monitors this thread) and to all else who may be concerned: Romans 9:15-18 “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.”

            With His Love,

            Dave



          • Son on December 16, 2018 at 7:12 pm

            And, fwiw, I agree with you, brother fessdo, that one cannot “work” one’s way into God’s Kingdom of Heaven. Christ did everything necessary to get us in there. However, our works are the “fruit” of our faith in Him, I believe. John 14:15 “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” A minor concession to our dear brother Gregg.
            Gregg, hope God is blessing you, bro.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 16, 2018 at 8:20 pm

            Dave,
            “Susan (if she monitors this thread)”
            Oh she’s monitoring she’s just one of those who’s not looking for help but one who likes to have something to complain about (an attention getter). If she really wanted to help her daughter she would have showed her Jesus not just talked about Jesus. As you pointed out about judging people, Jesus didn’t judge he showed mercy and grace which caused other to show mercy and grace. The minute you start to point out people’s wrong doing you shut off any chance to help them because when you start judging them they start judging you. Matt 7:1



          • Son on December 17, 2018 at 4:42 pm

            fessdo, if what you are saying is that you cannot beat someone over the head with a bible and expect to get positive results, I have to agree with you. Yesterday, at my new church, I encountered a number of very interesting fellow-believers in Jesus. They told me about how they had healed a boy in Mexico, whose left leg was around 5 inches shorter than his right leg. They prayed for him in accordance with the prompting of our Lord’s Holy Spirit, believing all the while that Jesus would heal him, they told me, and then watched his leg grow to the same length as the healthy leg. They were both astounded and dumbfounded at the openly manifested Power of God, even though they expected the accomplished results of their prayer. Pretty amazing! I realized then how much I still have to learn about His Kingdom. I plan to attend this spirit-filled church on a regular basis, now. I prayed to God to lead me to a church where His Spirit and His Body are in tune with one another, and He did that for me, I am thinking.
            Stay blessed, dear brother.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 17, 2018 at 6:54 pm

            Dave,
            Run don’t walk— from them!!!

            2 Timothy 3:12-13 The Message (MSG) Anyone who wants to live all out for Christ is in for a lot of trouble; there’s no getting around it. Unscrupulous con men will continue to exploit the faith. They’re as deceived as the people they lead astray. As long as they are out there, things can only get worse.



          • Son on December 18, 2018 at 10:42 am

            fessdo, thanks for the admonition, brother. I will certainly keep a close watch and be diligent about anything resembling a scam with the new church I am attending. Romans 16:17-19 “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.”
            Stay blessed, bro.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 18, 2018 at 1:04 pm

            Dave,
            Romans 16:17-19 is a good verse to live by, just wished I would have knew it a several years ago before getting messed up with the “name-it clam-it’ bunch. Would have been able to retire well off at 50 if I hadn’t ever listen to them, now it’ll be 75,,, “hopefully”.



          • Son on December 18, 2018 at 1:19 pm

            fessdo, can you tell me what happened? What do you mean by “name-it clam-it” bunch? How did the people you refer to cause you to defer your retirement? I’d be interested to find out more, my brother. Whatever it was, I’m a truly sorry for you that you had so discouraging an experience.
            Praying to our Lord Jesus to restore and bless you, dear brother.

            Dave



          • Peter on December 22, 2018 at 8:33 am

            @Dave.
            I may disagree with Fessdo with regards to the whole Grace vs works debate, but I cannot agree with him more about your new church…. run very fast indeed. I once was part of the whole name-it-claim-it deception, also known as the prosperity gospel, but God delivered me from these false teachers. The growing leg trick is one of the most basic deceptions. There is a video on Youtube explaining how this trick works. The deception goes way deeper than this. Please do yourself a favor and research how the penticostal church (supposedly the first wave of The Holy Spirit), the charismatic church (supposedly the second wave of The Holy Spirit) and the prosperity teachings (third wave as they call themselves) came about. These guys are wolves in sheep’s clothing. When Jesus was asked by His deciples about the end times, His very first words were “Take heed that no man deceive you.” because in the end times many will claim that Jesus is The Christ while at the same time deceiving many. Also, stay far away from Joyce Meyers and her friends. These are false teachers and in many cases false prophets that lead many people astray. I am sorry for coming accross so bluntly as I am typing this message with urgency. English is not my first language, so I can either take lots of time trying to type in a way in which I sound more sincere or I could try to get the message across to you ASAP. I choose the latter. Please test my advise by praying about it. I hope you find people to fellowship with. People who are serious about God.



          • Son on December 22, 2018 at 1:05 pm

            @Peter
            Thanks for the admonition, my brother. I will follow up with research on the deceptions you mentioned. I will also approach my new church with caution, slowly and carefully assessing my relationship with the body of Christ that congregates there. Again, I am appreciative and mindful of your advice.

            God bless you, bro.

            Dave



  26. davidandrobin on December 9, 2018 at 10:53 pm

    Wow! Scripture says Christ is the Head of the body and the church is the body. So you say you really love the Head (Christ) but you don’t love the body (the church)? Try that line on your wife and see what kind of response you get!

    • Son on December 10, 2018 at 4:01 pm

      Right. When your wife asks you, “Does my butt look fat in these pants?”, you ALWAYS answer “No, of course not, honey.” Even if the pants are splitting at the seams. lol

      Dave

  27. fessdo on December 3, 2018 at 12:06 pm

    Galatians 3 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
    God’s Blessing Comes Through Faith
    3 You people in Galatia are so foolish! Why do I say this? Because I told you very clearly about the death of Jesus Christ on the cross. But now it seems as though you have let someone use their magical powers to make you forget. 2 Tell me this one thing: How did you receive the Spirit? Did you receive the Spirit by following the law? No, you received the Spirit because you heard the message about Jesus and believed it. 3 You began your life in Christ with the Spirit. Now do you try to complete it by your own power? That is foolish. 4 You have experienced many things. Were all those experiences wasted? I hope they were not wasted! 5 Does God give you the Spirit because you follow the law? Does God work miracles among you because you follow the law? No, God gives you his Spirit and works miracles among you because you heard the message about Jesus and believed it.
    6 The Scriptures say the same thing about Abraham. “Abraham believed God, and because of this faith he was accepted as one who is right with God.”[a] 7 So you should know that the true children of Abraham are those who have faith. 8 The Scriptures told what would happen in the future. These writings said that God would make the non-Jewish people right through their faith. God told this Good News to Abraham before it happened. God said to Abraham, “I will use you to bless all the people on earth.”[b] 9 Abraham believed this, and because he believed, he was blessed. All people who believe are blessed the same as Abraham was.
    10 But people who depend on following the law to make them right are under a curse. As the Scriptures say, “They must do everything that is written in the law. If they do not always obey, they are under a curse.”[c] 11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by the law. The Scriptures say, “The one who is right with God by faith will live forever.”[d]
    12 The law does not depend on faith. No, it says that the only way a person will find life by the law is to obey its commands.[e] 13 The law says we are under a curse for not always obeying it. But Christ took away that curse. He changed places with us and put himself under that curse. The Scriptures say, “Anyone who is hung on a tree[f] is under a curse.”[g] 14 Because of what Jesus Christ did, the blessing God promised to Abraham was given to all people. Christ died so that by believing in him we could have the Spirit that God promised.
    The Law and the Promise
    15 Brothers and sisters, let me give you an example from everyday life: Think about an agreement that one person makes with another. After that agreement is made official, no one can stop it or add anything to it, and no one can ignore it. 16 God made promises to Abraham and his Descendant.[h] The Scripture does not say, “and to your descendants.” That would mean many people. But it says, “and to your Descendant.” That means only one, and that one is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: The agreement that God gave to Abraham was made official long before the law came. The law came 430 years later. So the law could not take away the agreement and change God’s promise.
    18 Can following the law give us the blessing God promised? If we could receive it by following the law, then it would not be God’s promise that brings it to us. But God freely gave his blessings to Abraham through the promise God made.
    19 So what was the law for? The law was given to show the wrong things people do. The law would continue until the special Descendant of Abraham came. This is the Descendant mentioned in the promise, which came directly from God. But the law was given through angels, and the angels used Moses as a mediator to give the law to the people. 20 But when God gave the promise, there was no mediator, because a mediator is not needed when there is only one side, and God is one.[i]
    The Purpose of the Law of Moses
    21 Does this mean that the law works against God’s promises? Of course not. The law was never God’s way of giving new life to people. If it were, then we could be made right with God by following the law. 22 But this is not possible. The Scriptures put the whole world in prison under the control of sin, so that the only way for people to get what God promised would be through faith in[j] Jesus Christ. It is given to those who believe in him.
    23 Before this faith came, the law held us as prisoners. We had no freedom until God showed us the way of faith that was coming. 24 I mean the law was the guardian in charge of us until Christ came. After he came, we could be made right with God through faith. 25 Now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law to be our guardian.
    26-27 You were all baptized into Christ, and so you were all clothed with Christ. This shows that you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 28 Now, in Christ, it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Greek, a slave or free, male or female. You are all the same in Christ Jesus. 29 You belong to Christ, so you are Abraham’s descendants. You get all of God’s blessings because of the promise that God made to Abraham.

    • Gregg Powers on December 3, 2018 at 12:26 pm

      and now read Galatians 5 and 6. Brother, you need to learn what faith is. It is not an abstract intellectual belief…….

    • fessdo on December 3, 2018 at 12:33 pm

      Galatians 5 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
      Keep Your Freedom
      5 We have freedom now, because Christ made us free. So stand strong in that freedom. Don’t go back into slavery again. 2 Listen! I, Paul, tell you that if you start following the law by being circumcised, then Christ cannot help you. 3 Again, I warn everyone: If you allow yourselves to be circumcised, then you must follow the whole law. 4 If you try to be made right with God through the law, your life with Christ is finished—you have left God’s grace. 5 I say this because our hope of being right with God comes through faith. And the Spirit helps us feel sure as we wait for that hope. 6 When someone belongs to Christ Jesus, it is not important if they are circumcised or not. The important thing is faith—the kind of faith that works through love.
      7 You were doing so well. Who caused you to stop following the truth? 8 It certainly wasn’t the one who chose you. 9 Be careful! “Just a little yeast makes the whole batch of dough rise.”[a] 10 I trust in the Lord that you will not believe those different ideas. Someone is trying to confuse you. Whoever it is will be punished.
      11 My brothers and sisters, I don’t teach that a man must be circumcised. If I do teach circumcision, then why am I still being persecuted? If I still taught circumcision, then my message about the cross would not be a problem. 12 I wish those people who are bothering you would add castration[b] to their circumcision.
      13 My brothers and sisters, God chose you to be free. But don’t use your freedom as an excuse to do what pleases your sinful selves. Instead, serve each other with love. 14 The whole law is made complete in this one command: “Love your neighbor[c] the same as you love yourself.”[d] 15 If you continue hurting each other and tearing each other apart, be careful, or you will completely destroy each other.
      The Spirit and Human Nature
      16 So I tell you, live the way the Spirit leads you. Then you will not do the evil things your sinful self wants. 17 The sinful self wants what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit wants what is against the sinful self. They are always fighting against each other, so that you don’t do what you really want to do. 18 But if you let the Spirit lead you, you are not under law.[e]
      19 The wrong things the sinful self does are clear: committing sexual sin, being morally bad, doing all kinds of shameful things, 20 worshiping false gods, taking part in witchcraft, hating people, causing trouble, being jealous, angry or selfish, causing people to argue and divide into separate groups, 21 being filled with envy, getting drunk, having wild parties, and doing other things like this. I warn you now as I warned you before: The people who do these things will not have a part in God’s kingdom. 22 But the fruit that the Spirit produces in a person’s life is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these kinds of things. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their sinful self. They have given up their old selfish feelings and the evil things they wanted to do. 25 We get our new life from the Spirit, so we should follow the Spirit. 26 We must not feel proud and boast about ourselves. We must not cause trouble for each other or be jealous of each other.

      • Gregg Powers on December 3, 2018 at 12:43 pm

        right, the people who DO these things will have no part in God’s kingdom.

        • Son on December 10, 2018 at 11:29 pm

          Thank God YOU are not The Judge, Gregg. “Let him without sin cast the first stone.”

    • fessdo on December 3, 2018 at 12:34 pm

      Galatians 6 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
      Help Each Other
      6 Brothers and sisters, someone in your group might do something wrong. You who are following the Spirit should go to the one who is sinning. Help make that person right again, and do it in a gentle way. But be careful, because you might be tempted to sin too. 2 Help each other with your troubles. When you do this, you are obeying the law of Christ. 3 If you think you are too important to do this, you are only fooling yourself. 4 Don’t compare yourself with others. Just look at your own work to see if you have done anything to be proud of. 5 You must each accept the responsibilities that are yours.
      6 Whoever is being taught God’s word should share the good things they have with the one who is teaching them.
      7 If you think you can fool God, you are only fooling yourselves. You will harvest what you plant. 8 If you live to satisfy your sinful self, the harvest you will get from that will be eternal death. But if you live to please the Spirit, your harvest from the Spirit will be eternal life. 9 We must not get tired of doing good. We will receive our harvest of eternal life at the right time. We must not give up. 10 When we have the opportunity to do good to anyone, we should do it. But we should give special attention to those who are in the family of believers.
      Paul Ends His Letter
      11 This is my own handwriting. You can see how big the letters are. 12 Those men who are trying to force you to be circumcised are only doing it so that their people will accept them. They are afraid they will be persecuted if they follow only the cross[a] of Christ. 13 They are circumcised, but they don’t obey the law themselves. They want you to be circumcised so that they can boast about what they did to you.
      14 I hope I will never boast about things like that. The cross of our Lord Jesus Christ is my only reason for boasting. Through Jesus’ death on the cross the world is dead[b] to me, and I am dead to the world. 15 It doesn’t matter if anyone is circumcised or not. The only thing that matters is this new life we have from God.[c] 16 Peace and mercy to those who follow this rule—to all God’s people.[d]
      17 So don’t give me any more trouble. I have scars on my body that show[e] I belong to Jesus.
      18 My brothers and sisters, I pray that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ will be with your spirits. Amen.

      • Gregg Powers on December 3, 2018 at 12:44 pm

        right, if you live to satisfy yourself sinful self, the harvest you get from that will be eternal death

      • fessdo on December 3, 2018 at 1:06 pm

        IF anyone can read these three chapters of Galatians and still think doing works will justify them before God, has to be extremely full of pride or have the strongest religious eye glasses ever made.

        • Son on December 3, 2018 at 1:23 pm

          LOL! “strongest religious eye glasses ever made” I love your sense of humor, my old friend. Now, there’s an idea: religious eye glasses. Hey, people bought pet rocks, remember? And mood rings. lol

          • Son on December 4, 2018 at 9:06 pm

            So, it seems to me that the “brothers” on this site don’t have any interest in sharing true fellowship in The Spirit of our Lord Jesus. There is nothing positive here, just the same tinkling of a cymbal that I heard in church. You guys just want to prove yourselves right: faith vs. works. OK, have fun. I’m outta here. No better or more fulfilling than the churches I attended. Keep arguing over nothing of any real substance. I’m sure, eventually, one of you will come up with the definitive answer to the mystery of our existence.
            Later, bros.

            Dave



          • Stu on December 4, 2018 at 10:21 pm

            Dave.

            You shared, “There is nothing positive here, just the same tinkling of a cymbal that I heard in church. You guys just want to prove yourselves right.”

            Not everyone feels that way exclusively, friend, and I see the “friends-of-Job” complex here. Everyone has a mask. We all wear them, and to the extent that we do, “we can neither give love nor receive it; only the mask gets the credit.” Jesus wants us to be overcomers. You offered love, and many chose not to receive it. It does not mean we are to throw it way. Many here are willing to listen and learn, but those who “know so much more than I do,” will only listen to themselves and seldom acknowledge it. But that is okay too. I don’t judge them for my perception of them because the log in my own eye is larger than I want to admit. It is incumbent upon me to recognize that log, and not to compare myself with others, shouting, “Your log is bigger than mine.” Don’t be offended Dave. Remember the Scripture, “The more knowledge the more grief.” It is what Paul had to be careful of because he knew why God gave him a thorn in the flesh—“to keep me from being conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations.” The more knowledge the more grief. It is what all of us who study the Scriptures must be careful of.

            Hang in there. God will deal with each of us in his mercy. The mercy for some may be discipline. It is not for me to decide. 🙂



          • fessdo on December 4, 2018 at 11:37 pm

            “Keep arguing over nothing of any real substance”,,,
            A lot of people get upset when you talk about Jesus and what he did to save people. They even get to the place where they belittle what Jesus went thru, to the point that they too will say “Jesus is nothing of any real substance”, but when you get born again by receiving Jesus as you Lord you then realize something is more important than you or your feelings. As a matter of fact your old man is now dead and a dead man can’t be insulted, or hurt, or worried, or frustrated, or in need of a little hug because people didn’t give him a warm fussy feeling inside.
            The answer is finding Jesus then finding out everything the he did for you because Jesus is really “the real substance”.



          • Son on December 5, 2018 at 11:09 am

            @fessdo
            1 Corinthians 13:13
            “And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”
            1 Corinthians 13:2
            “And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.”
            fessdo, this is PRECISELY why people leave church. There are lots of people there who wish to prove they are superior in knowledge of the scripture and in God’s wisdom, but do not have the Love, or Charity, or Jesus/God in their heart. Like I said earlier, you and Gregg can argue ’til your blue in the face about which one of you is correct in your interpretation of the scriptures, but it seems to me to be all about pride with you guys. I’ve been here for real fellowship, not to argue over the highest seat at the feast. Why don’t you try writing something with real substance, show your humanity, tell me how you came to be a follower of Jesus. I shared that with you.



          • Son on December 5, 2018 at 11:38 am

            @Stu
            Thanks, my true brother, for your wise counsel. If there were more people at church with your compassion and REAL Christian love, there would be a lot more people like me attending church. You gave me something of real SUBSTANCE in your reply to my comment, gave me wisdom that God wanted me to have, so He showed it to you and you showed it to me. The kind of relationship that you and I have is the hope, the reason I participate on this forum. You showed me God’s Love/Charity with your comment, and you were so right on about removing the plank and Paul’s thorn, for examples. Again, you have proven to be a true brother in Christ to me and given me hope that I am not wasting my time here, that we, as the body of Christ, can grow in Him by helping, instructing, exhorting one another and learning how to walk in His Spirit. Hebrews 3:13 “But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.”
            Thanks, dear brother Stu, for sharing in His Spirit with me with your thoughtful, blessed, holy insights. THAT is what I consider true fellowship in Jesus, not frivolous arguments over who’s interpretation of the Bible is correct.
            2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”
            1 Corinthians 8:2 “And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.” None of us, fessdo and Gregg, are right. We need to conform our acts according to the Love/Charity of God that He has put into our hearts through the infilling of His Holy Spirit. Do that and your works will justify your faith. I truly believe this. Jesus has revealed it to me. You can argue the law, mimicking the Pharisees, but it will avail you nothing in the end. As The Doobie Brothers sang: “Without love, where would we be now.”
            Do you think God loves you more than He loves me? Do you think He loves me more than He loves you? So, we are equal in God’s eyes. Try to remember this the next time you think you can remove the splinter from another’s eye.
            His Peace, Blessing, Grace and Abundant Life in His Holy Spirit be upon all of you, my brethren in The Lord!

            In Him,

            Dave



          • Gregg Powers on December 5, 2018 at 12:19 pm

            Incorrect; our arguing is not about being right. Why should I care? I care because people are being lost because they think they can live in sin after accepting Jesus Christ. Many are going to hear “Why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do what I say” It is the most fundamental error of the Modern Church that once one has accepted Jesus Christ, they can live anyway they want. I believe that God has led many to dispel such doctrinal error.



          • Gregg Powers on December 5, 2018 at 12:29 pm

            I think i have made my point, so there is no need to continue.

            I pray that all who claim Christ are committed to LISTEN to the Holy Spirit and to hate sin as much as He does. God Bless……



          • fessdo on December 5, 2018 at 12:43 pm

            “so there is no need to continue”,,,
            Yeah yeah Gregg we’ve heard that from you before but you’re just to prideful to not continue trying to prove you’re right.



          • Son on December 5, 2018 at 12:50 pm

            Gregg,
            You are still on a crusade. Where’s the Charity, The Love Jesus showed to us? God can save those whom He wants to save. He doesn’t need you to bang on the drum of righteousness. How many people do you discourage with your “Be Holy or go to Hell” posturing? You made me wonder if I was, perhaps, walking off a cliff with the way I live my life. Jesus has assured me that I am not. He loves me. He told me He would save me. I believe Him. To me, that’s it. Jesus doesn’t lie. So, I recommend you think about getting off the soapbox of self-righteousness and start showing a little compassion to your brethren, such as me, for example, who would rather hear the inspiring, encouraging aspects of your life in The Lord rather than listen to you play Southern Baptist preacher threatening fire and brimstone to those who perhaps don’t live up to your own personal standards. Like our brother Stu has pointed out, “show a measure of love, and that will be counted above them all.” 1 Peter 4:8 “And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.” Hey, you’re the scripture man, Gregg.

            With all due respect (and His love),

            Your bro Dave



          • fessdo on December 5, 2018 at 1:01 pm

            Fickle fickle, Dave you and Stu need a church where it’s all about you not about Jesus. That’s the problem with the churches today everybody wants to FEEL good and if Jesus gets all the attention then their little feelings get hurt. If someone says something in the wrong tone they get their little feelings hurt, grab their bible and leave forever. Let’s see what Jesus did when He walked the earth,,,
            Matthew 8:21-23 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)21 Another of Jesus’ followers said to him, “Lord, I will follow you too, but let me go and bury my father first.”
            22 But Jesus said to him, “Follow me, and let those who are dead bury dead.”
            If Jesus said that to most people today they would say,,[Jesus you’re no better or more fulfilling than the churches I attended so I’m out of here]



        • Gregg Powers on December 3, 2018 at 1:27 pm

          So you believe chapters 1-3 but not 5-6. This was the point i made all along. You believe part of scripture friend, but not ALL of scripture. Faith and works go hand in hand. They are part of the same belief system. It is not possible to truly (yes TRULY) believe in something and live opposed to what you claim to believe.

          • Son on December 5, 2018 at 1:57 pm

            fessdo, evidently you’re a tough love kind of guy. If I’m gonna sit around for a coupla hours listening to some guy who puts his pants on one leg at a time tell me about God, I at least want to be with people I like and, hopefully, love in the same manner as Jesus loves me. That may mean a hug, an unspoken feeling of comfortability and compatibility, a sincere handshake, whatever-have-you. I want a bond with my fellow followers of Christ. I don’t want to be preached to and commanded around and criticized for how I live by some Pharisee who thinks his you-know-what doesn’t stink. How Jesus could forgive those guys back then for what they did to Him I’ll never understand, much less be able to emulate. I obey Him when He tells me to do something (or not to do something). So, please don’t assume I would be offended or insulted if He told me to leave it to somebody else to do something I wanted to do and follow Him. I’d follow Him in a heartbeat. Let me be clear about what I believe, old pal – JESUS IS MY LIFE. I HAVE NO LIFE WITHOUT HIM. He loves me and I strive to love you as He commands me, as much as lieth within me. But tell me truthfully, fessdo old buddy, doesn’t it make you feel better when I’m kindly to you and not trying to be such a tough guy? That’s only human, and we’re all human. (Well, some people on this wicked old world may not be human – guys like Hitler, Stalin, hit men and bank robbers). Like I said, I wouldn’t have done very well if a bunch of strangers tried to crucify me. Give me friends, real friends, who worship Jesus, truly worship Him, and I will be most grateful as I wait for Him to return for me (and you). Maranatha, Lord Jesus, come soon, Lord, come now, if that is your Will, Jesus. I’m waiting for you.

            I may not agree with your methods, brother fessdo, but I do appreciate your motivation. Thanks for your counsel. God’s Blessings to you.

            Dave



          • Son on December 5, 2018 at 2:21 pm

            fessdo, The Lord put this into my head and told me to share it with you. How you receive this is between you and God, I’m not telling you how to behave. I do, however, personally believe that Jesus is pleased when we show one another a little kindness, compassion and care about them.
            Matthew 25:40 “And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”
            Matthew 7:2 “For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”

            Just a thought, brother.

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 5, 2018 at 3:43 pm

            Dave,
            Galatians 4:16 King James Version (KJV)
            16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

            Are you the same guy who sent me this when we were great pals?
            Mantra 1 :Never expect anything from anybody.
            Mantra 2: Don’t take anything personally.
            Mantra 3. Don’t assume anything
            Mantra 4. Don’t get an attitude
            Mantrao 5. Don’t judge anyone



          • Son on December 6, 2018 at 2:53 pm

            @brother Gregg,
            fessdo pointed something out to me that I had not considered, as it is written in Matthew 19:25-26 “When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
            But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.”
            Brother Gregg, if I have to be perfect and sinless to enter His Kingdom, I am lost.
            But for the Holy Blood that Jesus shed to cover my sins from the sight of God, I am hopeless.
            I have to agree with fessdo that we are completely dependent upon the Grace of God and nothing else if we are to have any hope of salvation.
            Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
            I DO agree with you, Gregg, that a person cannot ignore God’s commandments and disregard the instructions of Jesus without deleterious consequences, as we are instructed in several passages in 2 Peter:
            2 Peter 5-9 “And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
            And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
            And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
            For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
            But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
            2 Peter 20 “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.”
            But again, Jesus is faithful to keep His Flock on the straight and narrow path and with Him, all things are possible for His Children. My faith is in Jesus, not in myself.

            The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen.

            Dave



        • Peter on December 22, 2018 at 5:00 am

          Being under Grace does not mean that you can sin at will and then still be saved simply because you believe in Who Jesus is and what He did for you on the cross. The word translated as “believe” means to comply with, to abide in, to OBEY Jesus and all His commandments. If you think that you can continue to live without a radical change, without repenting of your past ways and your past views, if you think that you can continue to party, to live sexual immoral lives, to live in a state of adultory by being married to a devorcee, watching porn, running around in public in a bikini, going to strip clubs, getting drunk, cussing, being greedy, etc etc etc. If you think it is OK to do these things without repenting and without falling to your knees and asking God for forgiveness and without trying your utmost best to not again fall short of His standards, then you are blind and deceived. We are not called to fit in with the world. We are called out of the world.if you classify repenting as a work, then you are deceived and in great danger of not being saved. There is no such thing as once saved always saved. The Bible says that only those who ENDURE TO THE END will be saved. Don’t turn God’s Grace into something similar to universal salvation with the only difference being that you must believe that Jesus died on the cross for mankind and that He is God’s only begotten Son. Even the old enemy knows that. To believe in Jesus includes following His commandments. For those with ears let them hear.

          • fessdo on December 22, 2018 at 11:42 am

            Peter,
            “without trying YOUR utmost best”

            Definition of utmost
            1
            : the most possible : the extreme limit : the highest attainable point or degree
            the utmost in reliability
            2
            : the highest, greatest, or best of one’s abilities, powers, and resources

            But what if Fessdo’s utmost best is a six and Peter’s utmost best is an eight, would either of us make it in Gods kingdom without Jesus?
            Jesus isn’t come back and getting on the cross again to take care of any new sins is He?



          • Son on December 22, 2018 at 4:17 pm

            2 Peter 2:20-22
            For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”
            2 Peter 2:9
            “The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.”
            Romans 10:13
            “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
            James 2:14-26
            “What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
            If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”

            I believe we should strive, “as much as lieth within us”, to please our Lord and Savior Jesus by our decisions and our actions. I believe that if we deliberately, intentionally, habitually ignore what Jesus told us about how He wants us to think and act, we fall away from Him and pretty soon forget about him entirely after the manner described in 2 Peter 2:20-22 (see scriptural quotation at the top of this message). I believe that we shall sin because God told us that every human being has sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God and that we are redeemed through the spilled blood of Jesus, not by obeying the law without fail and flawlessly. I believe that God disturbs your peace and by doing so gives you a warning that you are falling away from Him when you ignore what Jesus told us about how we should think, act and live.
            Like Porky Pig says, “And, tha, tha, tha, uh, THAT’S ALL FOLKS!
            Believe in Jesus, count on Him to deliver you and trust Him for your salvation, brethren.

            With His Love,

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 22, 2018 at 5:14 pm

            Aman brother Dave,,, but you’re beating a dead horse when you try to talk to a prideful WORKS person. The minute a WORKS person here’s the “G’ word GRACE their “must be in control mind” automatically goes into thinking that a person living under grace is committing sin after sin after sin after sin after sin after sin after sin after ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.
            It just can’t be all Jesus with them, they won’t allow a light burden or an easy yoke in their life.



          • Son on December 22, 2018 at 10:16 pm

            I hear you, brother fessdo. However, in all good conscience, I agree with those who admonish about falling back into the ways of the world, or “backsliding”, as a lot of Christians would term it. We need to be mindful to strive toward pleasing, obeying and serving Jesus, “as much as lieth within us”, in the way that we live our lives here on this worldly plane, as we wait for our Lord, Savior and Master to bring us home. That is my true belief, what He has and is showing me.

            With His love, always, love you brother fessdo. His Peace and Blessing be upon you in abundance!

            Your bro always,

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 22, 2018 at 10:46 pm

            Dave,
            What you believe you’ll have.
            Matthew 8:13
            13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee.



          • Son on December 23, 2018 at 10:38 am

            fessdo, your quote from Matthew about the centurion is spot on. Thank you for sharing your insight and thank you Jesus for giving my brother that insight to share with me.

            His Peace and Blessing be upon you in abundance, my brother.

            Dave



      • fessdo on December 3, 2018 at 2:07 pm

        Galatians Chapter 1 and 2 was not even commented on. The three chapters I was referring to was Galatians Chapter 3, 4, and 5. Need to clean those eyeglasses or better yet read the entire chapters, start to finish and every word in between, before going off half cocked.

        • Son on December 5, 2018 at 7:28 pm

          Nah, we’re still pals in my book, fessdo, my ole’ buddy! : ) I don’t consider you an enemy in any way, shape or form. You ain’t heavy, you’re my brother. But, maybe God wants ME to give YOU a few tips on what He may want from/for you, in terms of relating to other people’s needs, emotions, vulnerabilities, weaknesses, etc., etc.
          Sometimes a hug and a prayer can solve a lot of issues for a human being, without beating them over the head with a Bible, all’s I’m sayin’. Certainly no offense to you intended on my part and, hopefully, none taken on yours. No worries, here, my dear bro. We still both agree that God’s Will is done. Night has fallen, Lewis. ; )

          We’re still great pals, as far as I’m concerned…I respect your opinion, even if/when it differs from my own. You know the biggest insult one can give someone? Tell them, “Sure, I know, you’re never wrong, you know everything and if you are mistaken, well, that doesn’t count.”
          I sure don’t want or plan to fit that description. There is still plenty that I need to learn, for shore, bro. I’m far, far from perfect.

          Stay blessed and talk with you soon, my friend and brother!

          Dave

          • fessdo on December 5, 2018 at 9:15 pm

            Dave,
            You’re on target on the emotions bit, I’ve seen so many phony emotions from people in the last 60 plus years that I really don’t rely on any type of feeling. One day people praise and love God and the next day they are cussing Him. People will say I really felt God today at church didn’t you, and when I reply no they look at me as if I’m the devil himself for telling the truth.
            I don’t have to feel God cause I walk by faith not by sight, so if Jesus said it I believe it and that settles it. With people being so wishy washy these days I just don’t pay much attention to what a person says.
            For years I tried to be good and was never able to make it, oh I heard people tell about how good they was and that I should be good too in order to get to heaven. Then one day it hit me when I reading the word,, Mark 10:18 King James Version (KJV) 18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
            There it was I was trying to be someone that no one could be GOOD.
            I response to God was like the disciples did in Matthew 19:25 King James Version (KJV) [When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?]
            I felt I had wasted 40 years trying to be good for nothing, but I went on to read Matthew 19:26 [But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.]
            And there it was with God/ Jesus it is possible. So from then till now when I read the word I’m looking for the love, mercy, and grace of my Lord Jesus, the goodness so to speak. It’s nice to have people love you but it’s much better to have Jesus love you cause his love is the same yesterday, today, and forever. With Jesus you know where you stand but with even the best human that has ever lived on this earth it’s still a crap shoot as to if they really mean what they say to you.
            For what it’s worth Dave you’re on the right track, you’re not trying to be perfect but you’re resting in the perfect one,,, Jesus.



          • Son on December 6, 2018 at 10:59 am

            Amen to everything you said, bro, AMEN!
            Thanks for sharing.

            Your bro in Jesus,

            Dave



          • Son on December 6, 2018 at 11:03 am

            fessdo –
            Proverbs 27:17
            ; )



    • Son on December 3, 2018 at 12:44 pm

      Please allow me to tell you, brethren, of how Jesus revealed Himself to me, all praise, blessing, honor, glory and power unto Him, the Holy Lamb of God.
      I was in a fraternity house in Tulsa, Oklahoma. One fellow continually bugged me about turning over my life to Jesus. However, although I found it somewhat annoying, I got along well with him and we were friends. One night, this fellow named Joe was sitting in a room in the fraternity house with 5 or 6 other guys, all of whom were believers in Jesus. I walked into the room, we chatted about trivial affairs such as baseball scores, and then, out of a clear blue sky, Joe says to me, “David, why don’t you ask Jesus to come into your life tonight, right now?” I thought about it, the replied, “OK. I’ll ask Him.” So I said into the open air, “Jesus, come into my life if you’re real.” Nothing happened. Joe asked me if anything was different. I told him, “No.” Joe and the other fellows then laid hands on me and prayed, some in English and some in the language of “tongues”. Joe said, “Ask Him again.” So, I said into the open air, “Jesus, if you’re real, come into my life.” Nothing happened. Joe asked me if anything had changed and I replied to him, “No.” Again, the brothers laid hands on me and prayed, as before. Suddenly, I remembered a class I had taken in college, wherein I was introduced to John Calvin’s theory of “The Elect”. Calvin, basically, maintained that since God is omnipotent, His Will is done. Human beings have no free will, although they imagine that they do, since we FEEL LIKE we make a choice, but since God is omniscient, as well as omnipotent, He already knows what choice we shall make. Thus, Calvin proposed that “The Elect” are chosen by God before they even exist and are known to God. If you’re not on God’s “List of The Elect”, you are going to Hell. That thought freaked me out. To spend ALL OF ETERNITY IN HELL? ME? I become frightened so deeply I cannot describe my fear and panic. MAYBE I JUST WASN’T ON THE LIST! I dropped to my knees, feeling like a fool in front on those other guys. I mean, I was a “cool guy”. I didn’t bow and cow-tow to some invisible pie-in-the-sky something. But at that point, I didn’t care. From the very essence of my being, from the tiniest cell in my body, I IMPLORED, BEGGED, BESEACHED Jesus to help me believe in Him. Then, similar to The Holy Spirit of God in the form of a dove descending upon Jesus when He was baptized, The Holy Spirit of Jesus came into me. It was like a warm glow, powerful, awesome and filled with bliss and ecstasy. I knew right away it was Jesus. Before I could say a word to let the others with me know what I had experienced, they were shouting, arms uplifted, “Thank you, Jesus, thank you, Lord, for saving our brother!” They knew He was in the room with us before I had the chance to tell them. And, He has been with me ever since, for 48 years. He’s never deserted me, never forsaken me. Jesus IS The Lord. I said it for the first time 48 years ago, and nothing has changed. HOSANNAH IN THE HIGHEST UNTO YOU, LORD JESUS, OUR LORD, SAVIOR AND VERY BEST FRIEND!
      Amen.

      Thanks, my brethren, for allowing me to share this with you.

  28. Salvation on November 30, 2018 at 1:21 pm

    13k shares…I sure hope your condemnation isn’t misguided…That is a lot of lives to be responsible for.

    • Maggie on December 1, 2018 at 2:43 am

      What about being cast out of a church for speaking out against the corruption within? I don’t exactly have a choice, do I? Can’t just hang in there and ‘work it out,’ can I? Are you suggesting I bury my head in the sand and pretend abuse and inequity doesn’t exist? Because that’s also what leadership wants me to do (= their definition of ‘grace’). It’s absolutely absurd & irresponsible not to address problematic people who use the church’s covering to commit atrocities. But no one wants to call it what it is because there is more ‘grace’ than common sense.
      Unless I ‘submit’ and also turn a blind eye, I am no longer allowed to serve in a leadership capacity. Something I have been dedicated to and very much enjoyed for many years & it breaks my heart. Seems I’m very much disposable and easily forgotten. Had I known, I could have just stayed in the secular world. At least I know what to expect & it sure would hurt a lot less.

      Granted, I do think leadership would tolerate me if I’d just attend services from now on; keep my mouth shut, tithe, bake the pastor an occasional apple pie, and promptly depart after the ‘feel-good message’.

      Yeah, no thanks, I’ll sleep in.

      • fessdo on December 1, 2018 at 9:44 am

        Maggie,
        The answer is in your last paragraph, that’s what Jesus would do. When I hear the verse that says “why do you call me Lord Lord and do not what I say” I like to put what Jesus actually said. So in your case He’s saying “why do you call me Lord Lord and do not stop judging others”. You are NOT other people’s Holy Ghost, nor is it your place to judge what others do or have done. Let God deal with those people and you deal with you. People get into these little sins / big sins deal, but it doesn’t mater the size of the sin. Sinning is breaking God’s law, so let’s say you have a giant picture window and we’ll call it the law, now it doesn’t matter if you shot a BB thru it or drive a Mack truck thru it it’s still broke, others may sin more than you but if you’ve ever sinned your in the same sinking boat with them. It’s Jesus that you should be focused on not what others are doing. You should be showing others the Jesus in you, how would others ever know that Jesus was in you if you never showed any mercy or grace or forgiveness toward them. If you go in beating the people over the head with the bible’s “thou shall not’s” then your being no different than most busybody church people. But if you do the works that Jesus did, blessing those that use you and forgiving the unforgiveable, then people will say ” you know theirs’s something different about Maggie than other church goers”. So put on a smile, bake a few pies, and show people what Jesus would be doing in your shoes.

        • Son on December 1, 2018 at 1:10 pm

          Great concept, fessdo. However, people are human and Maggie’s reaction is understandable, at least by me.
          Maggie, read your Bible, pray and commune with Jesus, don’t count on people to give you what you need spiritually and trust that Jesus already has a plan to bless you and take you to Heaven to live with Him forever. If you feel the need for more fellowship, pray to The Lord to find it for you and give it a try, if you are comfortable with it. Take it slow. I don’t personally believe that church attendance is a necessity for being saved and going to Heaven. Didn’t Jesus tell the thief on the cross next to Him, “Verily, I say unto you that ye shall be with me in Paradise on this very day.”? What church did the thief attend? What works did the thief have to commend himself to the Mercy of Jesus? I had experiences similar to yours when I attended church. I share fellowship with fellow believers in the secular world now and I am greatly edified. It ain’t about a building. It’s the love and grace of our blessed, precious Lord Jesus in your heart that counts. Church is in your heart, beloved sister.

          • fessdo on December 1, 2018 at 2:05 pm

            Mr. Son,
            Maggie’s reaction is understandable if she hasn’t died to self, that is decreased in order for Jesus to increase. It’s only thru Him that you won’t have that type of reaction. It is so true when you say “It’s the love and grace of our blessed, precious Lord Jesus in your heart that counts,” but out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so if you have more of Jesus than self then you show kindness toward people in order for them to see the kindness of Jesus.



          • Son on December 1, 2018 at 4:26 pm

            fessdo,, it’s Dave. I got blocked on my old identity. ????
            5 mantras The Lord told me to share with you guys.
            These arose out of working to obey Romans 12:18
            ” If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.”
            Mantra 1 :Never expect anything from anybody.
            Mantra 2: Don’t take anything personally.
            Mantra 3. Don’t assume anything
            Mantra 4. Don’t get an attitude
            Mantrao 5. Don’t judge anyone

            Maybe this is helpful to some. I hope so. These mantras have DEF. helped me!

            Dave



          • fessdo on December 1, 2018 at 4:40 pm

            Dave,
            That sounds like great advice for everyone of us trying to be a better person. Thanks



          • Son on December 1, 2018 at 6:06 pm

            My flesh fights with me every day. I am TOTALLY DEPENDENT UPON JESUS for my life and everything that the word “life” entails. As the Bestles sang, “Nothing you can do that can’t be done.” The Power is in JESUS. Don’t let The Discourager get you down, beloved brothers and sisters.
            Phillipians 4:8
            “In conclusion, my friends, fill your minds with those things that are good and that deserve praise: things that are true, noble, right, pure, lovely, and honorable. ”

            With His love.

            Dave



          • Son on December 1, 2018 at 9:13 pm

            So, if Jesus promised the thief on the cross next to him that he would “be with him (me) in Paradise on that very day, without any commending works from the thief, who obviously did not attend church, it tells me that we neither need to attend church or have good works to be elected to a place in Heaven. Our election to salsvation is strictly according to The Perfect Will of God/Jesus, one and the same. Night has fallen, Lewis, and there’s nothing we can do about it. God’ Will is supreme. It WILL be done.

            Humble and grateful to our Lord, the Holy Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, God’s Holy Word made flesh.

            With His Love for you, my brethren.

            Dave



          • Gregg Powers on December 1, 2018 at 9:52 pm

            Dave, is it possible you have gleaned the wrong message from the thief on the cross? The thief on the cross did everything possible to be faithful. We are to be faithful as well. But we must be careful not to read into scripture one way or the other. We know nothing about the thief on the cross. Perhaps he was already a disciple, perhaps not. He did indicate on the cross that he knew something about Jesus. In any event i urge caution in your conclusion as the logic you use does not necessarily hold. We see many in this day who claim faith in Jesus, spend all their time defending how they can sin as much as they want and refuse to follow the Holy Spirit and His leading. I remind us of the passage in John 15:1-6 ““I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.” It is a natural outcome of a true and saving faith to both obey and produce good works in the Holy Spirit…..



          • fessdo on December 1, 2018 at 10:57 pm

            Dave,
            If justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. (Gal. 2:21)
            For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” … Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. (Gal. 3:10, 13)
            Historically, Protestants have believed that the Bible teaches that our salvation depends on what Christ has accomplished for our pardon and our perfection. We accept by faith his substitution for us in two senses: in his final suffering and death, he was condemned and cursed so that we may be pardoned (see Gal. 3:13; Rom. 8:3); and in his whole life of righteousness culminating in his death, he learned obedience so that we may be saved (see Heb. 5:8-9). His death crowns his atoning sufferings that propitiate God’s wrath against us (see Rom. 3:24-25; 5:6-9), but it also crowns his life of perfect righteousness—God’s righteousness —that is then imputed to us who believe (see 2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 3:21-22; 4:6, 11; 5:18-19).
            God provided in Christ what God demanded from us in the law. But today this good news that Christ is not only our pardon but also our perfection is under serious attack. Here I hope to show not only that the doctrine of the imputation of Christ’s righteousness is biblical but why we should defend it.
            Three times in Galatians 2:16, Paul tells us that no one can be justified —no one can be made right with God—by “works of the law.” In context, this phrase refers most naturally to deeds done to obey Moses’ law. (Note the parallels between “the Book of the Law” and “works of the law” in Gal. 3:10, and between “the law” in Rom. 3:19, 20 and “works of the law” in Rom. 3:20. In both Gal. 3:10 and Rom. 3:19-20, the term “law” refers to the Mosaic law; so the phrase “works of the law” naturally picks up that meaning.)
            In its narrow, short-term design, the law that God gave to the Israelites through Moses demanded perfect obedience of the Pentateuch’s more than 600 commandments in order for the Israelites to receive eternal life (see Lev. 18:5; Deut. 32:45-47; Rom. 10:5; Gal. 3:10, 12). In this way, it upheld an absolute standard of childlike, humble, God-reliant, God-exalting perfect obedience that is in fact due from all of us—and thus provided the moral backdrop without which the Pentateuch’s sin-atoning provisions (and ultimately Christ’s sacrifice) would be unintelligible.
            Yet the Israelites were uniformly sinful and hostile to God (see Exod. 33:1-3; Acts 7:51). They did not—and indeed could not (see Rom. 8:7) —submit to him. Consequently, the law’s effect on sinful Israel, when she was confronted with its hundreds of commandments, was awareness of latent sin (see Rom. 7:7), increased sin through deliberate violation of God’s holy, righteous, and good commandment (see Rom. 7:12-13), and the multiplication of transgressions (see Rom. 5:20; 4:15). All of this was part of God’s design for the law: “[The law] was added for the sake of transgressions” (Gal. 3:19); “The law came in so that the transgression would increase” (Rom. 5:20). The law cannot give life (see Gal. 3:21); rather it kills by multiplying sin (see Rom. 7:5, 8-13).
            The law’s deadly design and effects are sufficient to warrant Paul’s statement in Galatians 3:12—”The law is not of faith”— especially in view of what he says eleven verses later: “Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law . . . . But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian” (vv. 23, 25). This does not mean that there was no faith before Christ (see Rom. 4) but, rather, that there was no faith explicitly in Christ before Christ came. The law’s function, in the long view, is to prepare God’s people for Christ’s work, even as its short-term function is to imprison its recipients in sin (see Gal. 3:22-23). The narrow, short-term aim of the law is to kill those who come in contact with it because it is primarily “commandments” (see Rom. 13:8-9; Eph. 2:15) that require perfect obedience but that cannot themselves produce this obedience independently of the Spirit who “gives life” (2 Cor. 3:6).
            What God Requires, Christ Provides, justification cannot come through the law (see Gal. 2:21; Acts 13:38-39). Each of us-every single human being (see Rom. 3:10-12, 19-20)-has failed to do what God’s law requires of us (Gal. 3:10; 6:13; cf. James 2:10). But to understand what God requires, we must see what Christ provides. In his mercy, God has provided his Son as a twofold substitute for us. Both facets of Christ’s substitution are crucial for our becoming right with God. These facets are grounded in the twin facts that (1) we have failed to keep God’s law perfectly, and so we should die; but (2) Jesus did not fail—he alone has kept God’s law perfectly (see Heb. 4:15) —and so he should not have died.
            Yet in his mercy God has provided in Christ a great substitution—a “blessed exchange”—according to which Jesus can stand in for us with God, offering his perfect righteousness in place of our failure and his own life’s blood in place of ours. When we receive the mercy God offers us in Christ by faith (see Acts 16:31; 1 Tim. 1:15-16; 1 Pet. 1:8-9), his perfection is imputed—or credited or reckoned—to us and our sinful failure is imputed—or credited or reckoned—to him. And thus Jesus’ undeserved death pays for our sin (see Mark 10:45; 1 Tim. 2:5-6; Rev. 5:9); and God’s demand for us to be perfectly righteous is satisfied by the imputation or crediting of Christ’s perfect righteousness to us. “If justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose” (Gal. 2:21). But “God has done what the law … could not do” (Rom. 8:3).
            2 Corinthians 5:21 is one of Scripture’s most powerful affirmations of the imputation of Christ’s righteousness to the account of those who believe in him: “For our sake [God] made [Christ] to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” There is a great deal that can be said about this verse but, when all is said and done, perhaps Charles Hodge has summed up its import best:
            There is probably no passage in the Scriptures in which the doctrine of justification is more concisely or clearly stated than [this]. Our sins were imputed to Christ, and his righteousness is imputed to us. He bore our sins; we are clothed in his righteousness… Christ bearing our sins did not make him morally a sinner… nor does Christ’s righteousness become subjectively ours, it is not the moral quality of our souls… Our sins were the judicial ground of the sufferings of Christ, so that they were a satisfaction of justice; and his righteousness is the judicial ground of our acceptance with God.
            All of this then means, as Hodge goes on to say, that “our pardon is an act of justice”—an act based on Jesus having borne our sins (see 1 Pet. 2:24)—and yet it “is not mere pardon, but justification alone”—that is, our forevermore standing as righteous before God because we are clothed with Christ’s perfection—”that gives us peace with God.”



  29. shelly on November 26, 2018 at 5:29 pm

    I messed up i cheated on my wife she told me she is moving on please cast return wife spell post reply on forum 2017
    My best friend cheats with my boyfriend and now are in a relationship. needs a spit them off spell cast. comments 2017

    • Chase on November 26, 2018 at 5:56 pm

      I say this editor is a false man of God. he uses a false translation of God’s Word. NLT?? Garbage

      • fessdo on November 26, 2018 at 10:48 pm

        Chase,
        Lets compare here:
        John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
        16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

        John 3:16 New Living Translation (NLT)
        16 “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

        Oh my what a GREAT catastrophe here, using the NLT will probable cause the world to be destroyed, oh wait it’s going to be destroyed anyway.

    • Son on November 29, 2018 at 10:11 pm

      My comments are being bloscked..

      David Bressler

      • Son on November 30, 2018 at 1:06 pm

        Not anymore. Must have been a technical glitch.

        • Son on November 30, 2018 at 1:09 pm

          Nope. David Bressler is still blocked. Why?

    • Son on December 1, 2018 at 11:11 pm

      Those who truly know and love Jesus will try to please Him and live by His Word as much as possible, dear brother Gregg. I don’t know anyone, have net met ANYONE, who will deliberately, consciously sin as an affront to our Lord God Jesus if they can they admit that “Jesus IS The Lord.”. We are human nd fallible and sometimes we trespass against His Word., in spite of our best intentions. Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak””We cannot resist temptation on our own as mortal men. Only Jesus can give us power to overcome sin. You seem to stress WILLPOWER as a means to accomplish good works, or at least, in all of your writings that I have read: I have gained that interpretation of your mindset. You have evidently not realized that free will is an illusion. We THINK we act on our own decisions. But, Jesus/God (one and the same) already knows what we shall decide, even before we make a decision. God is omniscient, by definition. Therefore, He already knows our decisions, even before we make them. We have no free will. It is all decided beforehand by God. Thus, John Calvin proposed the theory of “The Elect”, to which concept I personally subscribe. You will not “earn” a place in Heaven through your efforts. Only by The Holy, Blessed Grace and Mercy of God does mankind exist, much less have the opportunity of receiving eternal life in God’s Kingdom. We should have been taken out forever after we disobeyed Him in Eden. But, for the sake of the righteous,holy, glorious Word of God, JESUS, we have been spared. Make no mistake, my dear brother: We exist, much less are saved, by God’s Grace. Count on that alone. Depend upon that. For, that is all we have. fessdo, I hope you are reading these words and feeling His Peace that passeth all understanding.

      God’s Peace and Blessing be upon you, my beloved brethren.

      Dave

      • Gregg Powers on December 2, 2018 at 1:08 pm

        Oh brother, the Christians community is FILLED with them. I know pastors who intentionally sin. People vote for candidates that embrace abortion, breaking the law, support for homosexual acts, etc. That is participating in the sins of others. There are those that are committed to living in the flesh. There are those who routinely get drunk. There are those that steal from the government by not paying taxes. Can you really before God say that you don’t

        I am not sure willpower is the right word. But we must read scripture. It can be our only authority. God has granted us the power to ignore the Holy Spirit. It is our choice completely as to whether to listen to the Holy Spirit. If God did not believe this why would He tell us not to grieve or extinguish Him? Per scripture the Holy Spirit is a Helper, a Counselor – NOT a controller. This is why Paul in Galatians 5:25 drew the distinction between living in the Holy Spirit (being indwelt) and walking with the Holy Spirit. It is also why in Romans 8:14 we are told the true sons of God are those led by the Holy Spirit. Those who are not following where the Holy Spirit leads are not being led by the Holy Spirit. If you look at all MY posts you will see that I acknowledge we are to walk with the Holy Spirit and I give Him credit. But make no mistake, the idea that fessdo has presented that we can reject the Holy Spirits leading by sinning as much as we want and remain saved is errant.

        • Son on December 2, 2018 at 3:50 pm

          Do YOU know what constitutes sinning, brother Gregg? Or, what constitutes living in the flesh? I pray to Jesus, I commune with Jesus, but sometimes my flesh is stronger than my spiritual resolve. To me, that’s why the scripture reads, “For all have sinned and fallen short of The Glory of God.” Because if we could obey every commandment perfectly and follow the law without exception, why would Jesus have had to suffer and die for us here on Earth? If I love God/Jesus, which I do, and I strive to love my brethren, such as you and fessdo, just as an example and “strive to be a peace as much as lieth within me”, as we are commanded by The Lord, I am at peace within my soul. I cherish that peace and am infinitely (inasmuch as I am capable) grateful to Jesus for allowing me to have that peace through His Holy Spirit that lives within me. The Lord has His own way of letting me know when I am acting out of spirit, in contradiction to His Word, His Commandments, His Holy Spirit and I find I tend to strive to regain His Blessed Peace within my soul when He admonishes me. I know Jesus, I love Jesus and I strive and desire to please Him, more than I strive and desire to please myself. I pray for your peace and contentment, my brother. It must be tough to be tormented by constantly thinking about how and where you may have fallen short. Not one of us is perfect. Sometimes, you just have to trust Jesus that He will save them who call upon His Name unto their salvation. Just for the record, though, perhaps you could suggest something more I can do to follow him more nearly and please Him more than I presently do. I am open to new ideas.

          Thanks for your feedback, dear brother Gregg.

          Have a blessed Sunday.

          Dave

          • Stu on December 2, 2018 at 4:14 pm

            I appreciate you Dave. Your comments are adorned with compassion and sprinkled with love. They do not have the rough edges of what you ought to do, should have done, or could have done differently. I imagine one day when we stand alone, we will all be wearing an “invisible tape recorder” around our necks and God will present us with the thousands of times we told others what they should have, would have and could have done differently. Then God will say to them, “What about all of the times I gave you instruction, and you did what you pleased anyway?” How will we answer Him? But you show a measure of love, and that will be counted above them all.



        • fessdo on December 2, 2018 at 6:48 pm

          Matthew 10:11 “When you enter a city or town, find some worthy person there and stay in his home until you leave. 12 When you enter that home, say, ‘Peace be with you.’ 13 If the people in that home welcome you, they are worthy of your peace. May they have the peace you wished for them. But if they don’t welcome you, they are not worthy of your peace. Take back the peace you wished for them. 14 And if the people in a home or a town refuse to welcome you or listen to you, then leave that place and shake the dust off your feet.[b] 15 I can assure you that on the judgment day it will be worse for that town than for the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

          Sorry just following the scripture,

          • Son on December 2, 2018 at 7:07 pm

            @Stu – thanks for the kind words, my brother. It is very uplifting to receive such an honor of a compliment from an esteemed brother in His Spirit. Yes, there is a lot of disagreement and contention on this site, but I hope to be able to add some peace and harmony that we might love one another and thereby please our Lord and Savior, to whom we are all equally indebted for His precious, priceless gift.
            fessdo, my old friend – ???? Where did that come from, about “shake off the dust”? I don’t think I’m understanding your point with that post.
            Have a blessed Sunday evening, brothers.

            Dave



          • Son on December 2, 2018 at 7:52 pm

            @Stu – you know, brother Stu, I was reflecting on your kind words and Jesus put a thought into my head, so I am going to share it with you and my brethren on this forum: 1 Corinthians 13:1 ““Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.”
            God bless you all, my brethren, with His Charity, Mercy and Grace.

            Dave



    • Son on December 1, 2018 at 11:25 pm

      Agreed, fessdo. “Deliverane”.

      Dave

      • Son on December 1, 2018 at 11:27 pm

        “Deliverance”. Night has fallen, Lewis, and there’s nothing we can do about it.”

    • Son on December 2, 2018 at 11:59 am

      Nicely laid out, fessdo. You obviously put a lot of thought and research into your presentation on December 1, 2018 at 10:57 pm. Thanks for sharing, brother!

      God’s Peace and Blessing be upon you in abundance.

      Your bro,

      Dave

    • Son on December 2, 2018 at 12:10 pm

      Gregg, you wrote “We see many in this day who claim faith in Jesus, spend all their time defending how they can sin as much as they want and refuse to follow the Holy Spirit and His leading.” Are you referring to the churchgoers who say, “Amen” and then leave church only to cheat a brother, speak badly of another, reject someone who may need a friendly word of encouragement and covet material wealth above all other things, then return to church the following Sunday to repeat the cycle, thinking they have satisfie