CNLP 457: Beth and Jeff McCord on How to Handle the Tricky Side (i.e. People Side) of Team Leadership, Using the Enneagram to Diffuse Tension and Get the Best from Your Leaders

Share This Post founders Beth and Jeff McCord talk about how the Enneagram can help you better lead your team past misunderstandings and through conflict and tension toward a better future. Plus, they share how to further gain insight into how you’re wired as a leader so you can lead better.

Plus, in this episode’s What I’m Thinking About segment, Carey talks about the effects of exhaustion in leadership.

Welcome to Episode 457 of the podcast. Listen and access the show notes below or search for the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and listen for free.

InstagramTwitter | Facebook | YouTube |


It’s, again, that time of year – open enrollment season. It’s the dreaded yearly task of diving into a mountain of paperwork and research, trying to find the best health care option for you and your family.

We all want two things when it comes to our health care: trust and affordability. With a 98% customer satisfaction rating and an average member savings of 50% or more, Medi-Share checks both of those boxes!

Medi-Share is an affordable alternative to health insurance that allows members to share one another’s medical bills. They offer access to 900,000+ health care providers and have a proven 27-year track record.

They’re the most trusted name when it comes to health care sharing and having a quarter-century of expertise is one of those things that helps you sleep better at night!

There’s another thing that I love about Medi-Share, and it’s that they offer FREE & unlimited professional virtual counseling sessions to their members. Right now is the best time to make the switch.

Find out how much you could save, by going to

Red Letter Challenge

Hey pastors, I want to tell you about my friends at Red Letter Challenge and how they can help you with their “done-for-you resources.”

So let me ask you this—do any of the following statements sound like something you would say? “I really want to bring momentum and energy to our church, especially back into our small groups.”

Well, with Red Letter Challenge, you’ll see 40% growth in small groups in just 40 days!

Or, what about this, “All of my key leaders are stretched thin, wearing multiple hats, and we just don’t have time to create a church-wide series with all the bells and whistles.”

With Red Letter Challenge, everything is done for you. You’ll have access to an insane amount of free resources so you don’t have to create anything from scratch.

Or, is this you? “Our church just feels so divided right now. It’s so hard to get everyone attending in-person and online to feel connected to one another and to a greater purpose.”

Red Letter Challenge actually brings unity. Everyone, from kids to adults will dive into the words of Jesus for 40 days and get invited into something that is bigger than themselves.

There’s no better time to launch a 40-day church-wide series than the New Year. No matter the size of your congregation, let the Red Letter Team help you to see HUGE wins as your people become greater followers of Jesus.

Get the 2022 40-Day Challenge by going to And, pastors, while you’re there, get a FREE book—no strings attached.

Your Enneagram Coach

Becoming Us by Beth and Jeff McCord

Becoming Us Website

Your Enneagram Coach: The Podcast

Your Enneagram Coach: Bonus Episode with Carey Nieuwhof

Enneagram Certification Course

CNLP 389: Andy Stanley Dissects the Process He Uses to Make Decisions, the Limits of Gut-Based Decision Making, and How to Stop Lying to Yourself as a Leader

CNLP 442: Andy Stanley Flips the Mic to Talk Productivity Secrets, What Happens to Leaders Under Stress, and How to Ensure Other People Stop Hijacking Your Priorities

At Your Best by Carey Nieuwhof

At Your Best Masterclass

Get Carey’s Content Straight to Your Inbox

*As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Insights From Beth and Jeff McCord

1. When you believe everyone thinks (or should think) the way you do, you lose an opportunity to gain another valuable perspective

We all interact and experience the world in unique ways but we act as though everyone needs to think and do things the way we do. According to Beth, when we’re in an unhealthy frame of mind “we get agitated and frustrated and discouraged, irritable when people don’t think and do what we think they should do, which is our way, the right way.”

When we learn to value how other personalities and individuals see the world, we gain an appreciation for other thought processes and perspectives.

2. In order to get to where you’re going, you have to know where you are

We all have goals for ourselves, but like any journey, we don’t get to our destination without planning and intention. Our main goal, as Christians, is to to reflect Christ and become who God created us to be.

God gifted us with the ability to learn and mature as a part of that process. We don’t become our healthiest by trying to be another personality. We become our healthiest by noticing where our weaknesses or pitfalls are and “come back to the Holy Spirit, ask him for help, and have him work in and through us into that healthier direction.”

3. To lead others well, you have to know yourself well

Beth clarifies, “I can’t lead well unless I know myself, and I lead from that interior part of the core of who I am and what I want. Really, what I want as a leader, I want my team to feel cared for. Everyone has a place at the table. I want your voice to matter.”

Knowing your tendencies and how you react to things, and learning how your team members think and react to things, helps you create the communication and respect you want in your culture. Beth finishes her thought by stating, “Using the Enneagram has been so helpful for me to be able to speak specifically and with directness to any of the personality types the way they need to be talked to, not the way I want for people to talk to me.”

Quotes from Episode 457

I can't lead well unless I know myself. @enneagram_coach Click To Tweet When you're aligned with what is true, you're going to live that out. @enneagram_coach Click To Tweet By understanding what's happening inside of me, I'm able to extend the same kind of compassion and patience to those around me. @enneagram_coach Click To Tweet The Enneagram is so helpful because it really shows who you can become. @enneagram_coach Click To Tweet If we understand what's going on under the hood, we can actually have real conversations about what's going on versus assuming incorrectly other people's thoughts, feeling, and motives. @enneagram_coach Click To Tweet We're very adamant that people not use the Enneagram as a sword or a shield. @enneagram_coach Click To Tweet Sacrificing your family on the altar of leadership in my view isn't leadership. Click To Tweet If you're winning at work and losing at home, you're losing, period. Click To Tweet Exhaustion is the gateway drug to moral failure. Click To Tweet When you're exhausted, bad things seem good and good things seem bad, and that's a perfect setup for moral failure. Click To Tweet An exhausted decision-maker is a terrible decision maker. Click To Tweet A defeated leader will eventually create a defeated team. Click To Tweet Time off can't heal you if the problem is how you spend time on. Click To Tweet

Read or Download the Transcript for Episode 457

Looking for a key quote? More of a reader?

Read or download a free PDF transcript of this episode here.

Watch Back Episodes of The Podcast on YouTube

Select episodes of this podcast are now on YouTube. Our YouTube Channel gives you a chance to watch some episodes, not just listen.


Subscribe for free and never miss out on wisdom from world-class leaders like Adam Grant, Seth Godin, Andy Stanley, Craig Groeschel, Nancy Duarte, Henry Cloud, Patrick Lencioni, Francis Chan, Ann Voskamp, Erwin McManus, and many others.

Subscribe using your favorite podcast app via

Apple Podcasts


Google Podcasts



Spread the Word. Leave a Rating and Review

Hopefully, this episode has helped you lead like never before. That’s my goal. If you appreciated it, could you share the love?

The best way to do that is to rate the podcast on Apple Podcasts and leave us a brief review! You can do the same on Stitcher and on TuneIn as well.

Your ratings and reviews help us place the podcast in front of new leaders and listeners. Your feedback also lets me know how I can better serve you.

Thank you for being so awesome.

Next Episode: Kara Powell

Kara Powell returns to the podcast with fresh research on the three big questions the next generation is asking, centered on identity, belonging and purpose. As more and more young leaders struggle with anxiety, depression and life, Kara shares how you can respond.

Subscribe for free now so you won’t miss Episode 458.

Transform Your Church's Future: Lead With Clarity And Grow Your Church.

You aren't alone if you've struggled to find clarity in leading your church.

When your church is facing countless challenges and opportunities, it's tough to know where to focus your efforts and identify which actions will have the biggest impact on your ministry's future.

Simply put: leading a church has never been more complex.

The Art of Leadership Academy will answer your most challenging leadership questions and help you break through your growth barriers.

Whether it's reaching new people, improving your preaching, increasing volunteers, refreshing your vision, engaging your staff, or many other challenges we face as church leaders, you'll know exactly what steps to take to generate momentum for your ministry.

If you're looking to lead a healthy and growing church, now you can get answers to your toughest questions directly from me:

  • Access to all of my church leadership courses (on topics like preaching, outreach, governance, team leadership, productivity, culture, and more)
  • Live coaching calls—with Q&A—once per month
  • Direct access to me and a vibrant community of 1,750+ church leaders
  • Leadership development and team training resources

Are you ready to find clarity and lead with impact?

Share This Post
Carey Nieuwhof
Carey Nieuwhof

Carey Nieuwhof is a best-selling leadership author, speaker, podcaster, former attorney, and church planter. He hosts one of today’s most influential leadership podcasts, and his online content is accessed by leaders over 1.5 million times a month. He speaks to leaders around the world about leadership, change, and personal growth.