Chris Hodges had a battle with depression back in 1999, but the last thing he expected was to face it again in the summer of 2020.
In a very transparent interview, Chris explains his battle with anxiety, depression and panic attacks, what felt like a season of ministry suicide, and how he came back and grew his resilience.
Welcome to Episode 431 of the podcast. Listen and access the show notes below or search for the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and listen for free.
Plus, in this episode’s What I’m Thinking About segment, Carey talks about some deeper insights on burnout and mental health.
Guest Links
Instagram | Facebook | Website
Episode Links
World Vision
The deepest truths about living like Jesus often come from leaders who are suffering, persecuted, and living in a hostile environment.
And through the beatitudes in Matthew 5, we know that people in difficult circumstances like these are often the closest to living like Jesus did.
World Vision invites you to listen to voices of leaders from around the world! Leaders who have used their suffering and persecution to build and strengthen their faith.
Join Danielle Strickland and World Vision for a NEW series called “Right Side Up Soul Care.”
In this FREE web series, Danielle and leaders in the global Church will share how they have learned to practice their faith and feed their soul through difficult circumstances.
The Church is a force for good in the world and World Vision’s heart is for the Bride of Christ to be healthy and mobilized to be the church outside the four walls!
Sign up today at worldvision.org/Carey.
Medi-Share
Leaders are tired. It’s been crazy navigating the world the past year. They need companies they can trust.
66% of Americans across all income levels say that health insurance is a major financial stressor.
Medi-Share is the best alternative to traditional health insurance that allows Christians to share burdens in the form of medical bills.
Medi-Share is the most trusted health care sharing ministry with over 415K members nationwide. They’re an authentic Christian community that is there for you when you need it most: to pray for you and to encourage you.
The typical family saves on average 50% or more on monthly health care costs when they switch. That equates to an average of $500 per month!
Medi-Share members have access to free TeleHealth and free TeleCounseling, which are both unlimited! You can join at any time and have access to 900K+ providers.
Medi-Share has a proven 27-year track record and has shared more than $4 billion since 1993.
Learn how much you can save, it only takes two minutes, by going to medishare.com/carey.
Conversation Links
Out of the Cave by Chris Hodges
Leadership and Suicide: When Ending It Seems Like the Only Way Out by Carey Nieuwhof
CNLP 098: Becoming a High Capacity Leader – Deconstructing Frank Bealer’s Habits and Schedule
At Your Best by Carey Nieuwhof
Get Carey’s Content Straight to Your Inbox
*As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Insights From Chris
1. When you’re in the cave of depression, don’t go through it alone
Burnout and depression are disorienting and dark. So much so, that Chris describes them as, “Being in a cave.” So the question is how do you get out of that cave?
It’s almost impossible to get out of a season of burnout alone. You need someone who is able to walk out of the cave alongside you. Chris’ best friend,, Rick was critical in him finding his way out of burnout, and if/when you go through your own season of depression or burnout, you’ll want to have a friend walking with you, too.
2. Burnout doesn’t care what size organization you lead
You might think that burnout is way more likely to happen to megachurch pastors or hotshot business leaders, but Chris disagrees.
He points out that burnout has a lot more to do with the decisions you make than the size of the organization you lead. Someone who’s leading something very small who makes poor choices can still find themselves in a state of burnout.
3. Work 6 days, but completely stop on the 7th
One of the key rhythms that has kept Chris healthy while leading one of the fastest-growing churches is the weekly habit of the sabbath.
Once a week, Chris disconnects from technology for 24 hours, completely stops working, and spends intentional time with those that he loves, doing what he loves. This rhythm has allowed him to stay personally healthy while the world around him has been overwhelming.
Quotes from Episode 431
There's been this idea that if you're a Christian, then you can't have problems. Then, if you have problems, then you're in sin. - Chris Hodges Click To Tweet You'll always stay as sick as your secrets. - Chris Hodges Click To Tweet It's not, ‘All is well that ends well.’ It's, ‘All is well that begins well.’ - Chris Hodges Click To Tweet If you want it, be it first. - Chris Hodges Click To Tweet Your soul is emotional. It needs care. - Chris Hodges Click To Tweet Friendship is born at the moment when someone says, ‘What? You too? I thought I was the only one.’ - C. S. Lewis Click To Tweet Study after study has shown that we are the most independent and lonely society in human history. - Chris Hodges Click To Tweet That's why I use the cave as the metaphor for depression—because it's dark. It's disorienting. There's a way out, but you don't know where it is. - Chris Hodges Click To Tweet People don't know how to do soul care. - Chris Hodges Click To Tweet People are constantly filling up every single moment. I believe we're designed to slow down a bit. - Chris Hodges Click To Tweet I truly believe that what sustains us, what puts wind in our sails, what helps us, is that we were never intended to walk alone. - Chris Hodges Click To Tweet Your emotions tell you things that aren't true. Click To Tweet The best thing you can do when you're depressed, and if you're suicidal, is to do the thing you know to be true, even if you don't feel like doing it. Click To Tweet You're loved, even if you don't feel loved. There's hope, even if you can't feel hope. You have a future, even if you can't see it. Click To Tweet You are most tempted to quit before your critical breakthrough. Click To Tweet When you're feeling burned out, you can't see a better future because all you feel is the present pain. Click To TweetRead or Download the Transcript for Episode 431
Looking for a key quote? More of a reader?
Read or download a free PDF transcript of this episode here.
Watch Back Episodes of The Podcast on YouTube
Select episodes of this podcast are now on YouTube. Our YouTube Channel gives you a chance to watch some episodes, not just listen.
SUBSCRIBED YET?
Subscribe for free and never miss out on wisdom from world-class leaders like Brian Houston, Andy Stanley, Craig Groeschel, Nancy Duarte, Henry Cloud, Patrick Lencioni, Francis Chan, Ann Voskamp, Erwin McManus and many others.
Subscribe using your favorite podcast app via
Spread the Word. Leave a Rating and Review
Hopefully, this episode has helped you lead like never before. That’s my goal. If you appreciated it, could you share the love?
The best way to do that is to rate the podcast on Apple Podcasts and leave us a brief review! You can do the same on Stitcher and on TuneIn as well.
Your ratings and reviews help us place the podcast in front of new leaders and listeners. Your feedback also lets me know how I can better serve you.
Thank you for being so awesome.
Next Episode: Ximena Vengoechea
Ximena Vengoechea has been a user researcher at Twitter, LinkedIn and Facebook.
She talks about how listening to clients and customers before you launch a product can lead to greater success, how to listen to customers, and what feedback to pay attention to and what to discard.
Subscribe for free now so you won’t miss Episode 432.