Patrick Lencioni returns to the podcast to talk about how he changed his mind about leading virtual teams and hosting virtual events as a result of the crisis, how virtual can be more personal and why so many leaders abdicated their responsibilities.

Plus, he offers his view on how preachers and church leaders can do a better job at communicating in a rapidly changing world.

Welcome to Episode 348 of the podcastListen and access the show notes below or search for the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and listen for free.

Plus, in this episode’s What I’m Thinking About segment, Carey talks about the three different levels of fatigue.

Guest Links

Headshot of Patrick Lencioni

Twitter | The Table Group | At the Table with Patrick Lencioni | The Motive

Episode Links

New Era Church

Are you a church leader looking for a long-term model for digital ministry? Check out New Era Church.

It’s an eLearning course for church leaders who want to build an enduring digital ministry model that fits their context, calling, and convictions. It’s custom. They don’t talk about technology or “cut and paste” solutions for digital ministry (because they don’t exist).

They offer 6 modules taught by experts like:

  • Dave Adamson – NorthPoint Ministries
  • Marc Venti – Church Home
  • Matt Welty – Crossroads Church
  • Craig Smee – Victory Life Church

The first 100 downloads are only $89. Sign up today at


Despite what many church leaders believe, the economy is NOT the main driver of your financial health. Economic cycles simply reveal what was already happening below the surface. If your planning and processes were effective before March, the current crisis is probably not rocking your world. Your giving may actually be up right now.

Our friends at Generis just released a new resource that we are super excited about called Your 2020 Budget Just Blew Up….Now What? This eBook covers the planning and processes you need to strengthen right away in order to weather the current storm and thrive in the months ahead.

And Generis is making this new resource available exclusively to our audience before they release it to everyone else with a bonus chapter just for you! Generis has also provided a complimentary support hotline for anyone that needs some “in the moment” assistance. Whether you want to unpack any of the ideas covered in this new eBook or just have some questions about funding your vision, they are happy to help!

Check out this free resource by visiting or by texting CAREY to 33222


CNLP 222: Patrick Lencioni on Saying No to Steve Jobs, Motivating Millennial Workers and the Three Qualities You Need to Look for to Create the Ideal Team

CNLP 299: Patrick Lencioni on His Personal Leadership Crash, How He Moved Through it, and How to Check Your Motive as a Leader

Silos, Politics and Turf Wars by Patrick Lencioni

Death by Meeting by Patrick Lencioni

8 Easy Ways to Blow It in this Next Season of Ministry by Carey Nieuwhof


1. Pre-pandemic, your need for near-perfection was slowing you down

As with nearly every organization, Pat’s company had to make some major pivots when the Coronavirus pandemic hit. They completed projects that normally would have taken 6 months in just 10 days, and they saw great results. What does this mean for Pat and his team moving forward? And what does it mean for you?

If you’re a focused and driven leader, you probably spend a lot of time making sure your products are as good as they can be before you put them on the market. If you’re a preacher, you want every sermon to be excellent. If you’re posting on social media, every caption needs to be perfect. This pandemic has shown that the things we produce don’t need to be perfect, they just need to be helpful and timely.

2. Your team is actually MORE focused on Zoom calls than in-person meetings

Before COVID, the argument against remote meetings was that people are not as focused at home as they are in the office. Since the pandemic hit, and Pat’s whole team began working remotely, he’s noticed the exact opposite effect. His team is more focused now than ever before.

Carey’s and Pat’s theory is that when you’re forced to look at yourself and everyone else in the meeting straight in the eye, you need to be more focused than if you were just sitting in a room having a meeting. It’s more appropriate to stare out the window in a regular meeting rather than on a Zoom call.

3. If you have the wrong motive, you’ll never be a good leader

Pat sees two motives that cause people to get into leadership. One is healthy, and one is not. The first (and most common) reason that people get put into leadership is that they think it will get them something. Whether its status, influence, money, or prestige, many leaders get into leadership because it will help them—selfishly, visually or physically. If you have this first motive, you will almost never become a great leader.

The second motive is that they see leadership as a responsibility and a sacrifice. Leaders with the right motive see their call of leadership as a call to sacrifice for and serve their people. Only when leaders are driven by this motive can they become great leaders. So, why are you in leadership?

Quotes from Episode 348

There's two reasons why somebody should want to be a leader. One is because it's a reward. The second is because it is a daunting responsibility. @patricklencioni Click To Tweet

Unless you want to suffer for others, don't be a leader. @patricklencioni Click To Tweet

Reward-centered leaders are looking for activities that enhance their own enjoyment and status. @patricklencioni Click To Tweet

So many leaders shy away from the heart and unpleasant things, because their motive for becoming a leader was wrong in the first place. @patricklencioni Click To Tweet

The world would be better off if fewer people aspire to be leaders, but they all did it for the right reason. @patricklencioni Click To Tweet

Sometimes we think we need to be perfect, and we don't. @patricklencioni Click To Tweet

People want authenticity. @patricklencioni Click To Tweet

I don't care if you're the senior vice president of marketing at a multibillion-dollar corporation. You need to be managed by your manager. @patricklencioni Click To Tweet

You should perform with the same sense of unity and clarity as though it were a crisis. @patricklencioni Click To Tweet

I think that the new world of work is going to have higher standards for personal interest in one another's lives, because it's really hard for human beings to go backward in intimacy. @patricklencioni Click To Tweet

The more tired you are, the more intentional your plan for recovery will be. @cnieuwhof Click To Tweet

Read or Download the Transcript for Episode 348

Looking for a key quote? More of a reader?

Read or download a free PDF transcript of this episode here.

Watch Back Episodes of The Podcast on YouTube

Select episodes of this podcast are now on YouTube. Our new YouTube Channel gives you a chance to watch some episodes, not just listen. We’ll add select episodes to YouTube as time goes on.


Do you want to unlock more of your potential in life and leadership without sacrificing time with your family and your health?

Sounds crazy, but it’s not. I know because I’ve lived it. A few years back, I seriously crashed and burned because the demands on my time and life were bigger than the time I had to accomplish them. I promised myself that wouldn’t happen again.

Today, I still have bigger goals than ever before, but I’ve made fundamental changes that have led to a healthier, happier lifestyle without sacrificing my family and vastly increasing my productivity at work. I’ve taken what I’ve learned during this journey and put it into The High Impact Leader course.

You can complete the three-hour course at your own pace. It’s the most comprehensive content I’ve ever created for leaders to help you reclaim HOURS every day so you can become more effective at work and more present at home. When your time, energy, and priorities are all working together for you, it’ll impact everything you do.

  • You become a better leader, because you’re doing what you do best when you’re at your best
  • You become a better spouse, because you’re focused at home
  • You become a better parent, neighbor, and friend, because you actually have time off to relax and engage

These principles will free you to thrive in every area of your life.

You can learn more and gain instant access today.

Subscribed Yet? 

Subscribe for free and never miss out on wisdom from world-class leaders like Brian Houston, Andy Stanley, Craig Groeschel, Nancy Duarte, Henry Cloud, Patrick Lencioni, Francis Chan, Ann Voskamp, Erwin McManus and many others.

Subscribe using your favorite podcast app via

Apple Podcasts


Google Play



Spread the Word. Leave a Rating and Review

Hopefully, this episode has helped you lead like never before. That’s my goal. If you appreciated it, could you share the love?

The best way to do that is to rate the podcast on Apple Podcasts and leave us a brief review! You can do the same on Stitcher and on TuneIn as well.

Your ratings and reviews help us place the podcast in front of new leaders and listeners. Your feedback also lets me know how I can better serve you.

Thank you for being so awesome.

Next Episode: Bob Goff

NYT Best selling author and recovering lawyer, Bob Goff, talks about how he started an airline to support his daily commute, rebuilding when your life breaks down, how to dream bigger than you ever have, and what never losing a case at law taught him about life. This wide ranging interview is a tour de force of what’s possible when you realize you can dream.

Subscribe for free now so you won’t miss Episode 349.

CNLP 348: Patrick Lencioni on How Virtual Teams and Events are Often Better, His Best Advice for Church Leaders and Preachers, and Why So Many Leaders Abdicate Their Responsibilities


  1. Justine on July 6, 2020 at 5:08 pm

    I just finished this podcast and as a life long learner, and leader, found a lot of inspiration for our leadership development company to take away with for creating our content for next week which is a focus on personal connection.

    My biggest takeway was that while we have been doing Zoom calls inside our houses versus the office, it has led to a more personal connection with people seeing your dogs, your kids, etc.

    I’ve always believed that work isn’t the place for you to leave your personality at the door and we need people to wake up every day and confidently and undeniably be 100% themself so that they can use their gifts to serve others. I think these zoom calls and working from home has helped lead to that. I’ve been working remotely for over 2 1/2 years now and still have a strong personal connection with not just those in my company, but with our clients.

    Thank you.

  2. Keri akida on June 24, 2020 at 11:14 pm

    The church as corporation is all over all of your posts You also seem to be talking and listening to white men only. Websites such as this with zero focus on anything but church as corporation and congregants as bum in seats funders of leaders, is why churches need to be shuttered and the buildings turned into social housing. How on earth did the message of an itinerant preacher from 2,000 years ago who said give all your money to the poor become this? Repent. Close your building. Talk to people of other genders and races, give to the poor. Go live amongst them. Go to BLM protests. Turn your blog over to people of color for awhile. Yikes

Leave a Comment

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.