CNLP 546: Mark Sayers on Future Cultural Disruption, the Church in Ten Years, the Overton Window and How to Cultivate a Non-Anxious Presence in the Midst of It All

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Mark Sayers returns to the podcast to talk about future cultural disruptions, the decline of civilization, the rapid acceleration of the Overton Window, and how to sleep at night and cultivate a non-anxious presence in the midst of it all.

Welcome to Episode 546 of the podcast. Listen and access the show notes below or search for the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and listen for free.

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Are you leaving money on the table? If you’re only accepting cash donations at your church, this could be the case.

Did you know that 90% of wealth is actually in NON-cash assets? When cash is the only giving option, you’re putting a lid on generosity.

Overflow is here to lift that lid, and unlock more ways to give. Overflow is an online software that empowers donors to easily give non-cash assets (such as stock) to churches in minutes, not months.

Why is this important? Well, the average cash donation in the U.S. is just $128, but the average stock donation through Overflow is over $10,000.

The days of giving the church the ‘leftovers’ are behind us. It’s time to empower your donors to give from their “overflow.”

Let’s unlock more giving channels for the Kingdom together. Go to to learn how.


Every church leader knows that having trained and engaged volunteers is essential to successfully accomplishing your mission. But if you’re like most leaders, you also know how tricky it can be to onboard and equip people for your team. What if there were a resource that made it easier?

Well, let me recommend ServeHQ to you.

ServeHQ is simple video training courses that help you equip volunteers and develop leaders. You can create your own training or use their video library. You can even automate next steps to onboard new people.

ServeHQ provides an online learning platform that tracks progress for each person. They include a large library of pre-built courses that include training videos and follow-up quiz questions for church volunteers and leaders in every area of ministry.

ServeHQ also provides simple tools to create your own training without needing special video equipment or software…just your computer and web browser. They also provide basic email and text messaging for team communication, giving you a central place to equip your ministry team and communicate with them.

Their easy-to-use automation tools make onboarding new volunteers and church members fast, easy, and consistent. You can create automatic sequences that enroll learners in online courses, send timed messages, and alert church staff members of follow-up tasks, too.

Check it out at

Conversation Links


A Non-Anxious Presence: How a Changing and Complex World Will Create a Remnant of Renewed Christian Leaders By Mark Sayers

Reappearing Church: The Hope for Renewal in the Rise of Our Post-Christian Culture By Mark Sayers

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Thriving Church Checklist

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Quotes from Episode 546

Read or Download the Transcript for Episode 546

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Read or download a free PDF transcript of this episode here.

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Spread the Word. Leave a Rating and Review.

Hopefully, this episode has helped you identify or break a growth barrier. That’s my goal. If you appreciated it, could you share the love?

The best way to do that is to rate the podcast on Apple Podcasts and leave us a brief review! You can do the same on Stitcher and on TuneIn as well.

Your ratings and reviews help us place the podcast in front of new leaders and listeners. Your feedback also lets me know how I can better serve you.

Thank you for being so awesome.

Next Episode: Sean Morgan

Nobody in the church today has the breadth and depth of experience Sean Morgan does when it comes to creating successful pastoral succession plans. Sean and Carey discuss pro tips for incoming and outgoing leaders, what makes pastoral succession successful, critical mistakes outgoing leaders make, and the way forward in the pending succession crisis in the church.

Subscribe for free now so you won’t miss Episode 547.

Lead With Confidence and Clarity. Grow Your Church.

As leaders, we tend to see the challenges and roadblocks before other people do.

We've all been there before...

  • You need to refresh your vision for the future but know that change will be an issue for that person.
  • You're overstaffed (or missing a key role) and can't find the right person to fill the role.
  • You aren't reaching enough new people even though you've tried everything that's working for other churches.
  • You can see the issue but aren't confident in what to do about it.

And with another Sunday morning coming up, it'll just have to wait until next week when you have a few minutes to figure it out.

Now ask yourself this:

What would it feel like to have those answers at your fingertips 24/7?

Whether it's reaching new people, improving your preaching, increasing volunteers, refreshing your vision, engaging your staff, or any of the countless challenges we face as church leaders, The Art of Leadership Academy will equip you to lead your church with confidence and clarity.

Between comprehensive church leadership courses, live coaching calls, staff and volunteer training resources, and direct access to a private online community of senior-level church leaders, you'll get the exact insights and answers that fuel your church for growth.

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Carey Nieuwhof
Carey Nieuwhof

Carey Nieuwhof is a best-selling leadership author, speaker, podcaster, former attorney, and church planter. He hosts one of today’s most influential leadership podcasts, and his online content is accessed by leaders over 1.5 million times a month. He speaks to leaders around the world about leadership, change, and personal growth.