CNLP 342: Ian Morgan Cron on How Your Enneagram Type Handles Stress, How to Stay Healthy in a Crisis, and the Best Approach to Dealing with Uncertainty

How does your Enneagram type handle stress and uncertainty?

Ian Morgan Cron is back on the podcast to discuss how different leaders process crisis, how to get and stay healthy in the midst of an upside down world, and gives more free therapy to Carey on how to handle his unhealth in times of crisis.

Ian offers some highly practical advise on how to be a much healthier version of yourself in the midst of the crisis, reconstruction and the uncertainty ahead.

Welcome to Episode 342 of the podcastListen and access the show notes below or search for the Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and listen for free.

Plus, in this episode’s What I’m Thinking About segment, Carey gives his latest thoughts on the COVID-19 crisis and how to respond as leaders.

Guest Links

Headshot of Ian Morgan Cron

Instagram | Facebook | Twitter | Website

Episode Links

Pro Media Fire

When I mention names like Netflix, Airbnb, and Uber, what do you think of? They were all part of disruption, and they facilitated major change in their space. There’s a disruption happening right now in the church and digital is disrupting everything. So, if you need a partner that can help you navigate the shift, that is exactly what Pro Media Fire is doing with their Church Growth Program.

The Church Growth Program provides your church with a digital coach, creative team, web team and social team for less than the cost of a staff hire. Your church can have an entire team of professionals, a graphic designer, video editor, web developer, social media expert and digital strategy coach working for you, and all for less than the cost of a staff hire.

Book a free strategy session with Pro Media Fire today at

Financial Peace University

Coronavirus has disrupted our lives. Dave Ramsey, and the folks at Ramsey Solutions are helping so many people make a difference right now, and they’ve got a really cool offer for you.

You can help others by leading a virtual Financial Peace University class. Financial Peace University is the proven plan that has helped nearly 6 million people stop worrying about money, and learn how to pay off debt and save for emergencies. I promise you, I have lived with financial margin, and without it, it is far better to do it with financial margin. It’s totally free to lead, and it’s all done through a video chat like Zoom.

You don’t have to take the class yourself. You don’t have to leave your home. Dave Ramsey and his team handle all the teaching. They give you everything you need to lead with confidence. Also, during the webinar, you’ll also learn how you can get one year free access to Financial Peace and EveryDollar Plus. That’s a value of over $100 in your pocket.

Get one year free access to Financial Peace and EveryDollar Plus when you sign up to lead a Financial Peace University Class
Simply text CAREY to 33789


Text willithrive to 33777 to get access to Carey’s Will I Thrive quiz

CNLP 241: Ian Morgan Cron on Using Your Enneagram Number to Boost Self-Awareness, Spiritual Growth and Reduce Conflict at Work and at Home

CNLP 278: Ian Morgan Cron on How Your Enneagram Profile Positions You for Burnout, Pride, Cynicism and Other Hidden Traps in Life and Leadership

Typology Podcast

The Road Back to You by Ian Morgan Cron and Suzanne Stabile

Man’s Searching for Meaning by Viktor E. Frankl

Ian Morgan Cron on YouTube

Enneagram and Stress YouTube series

Integrative Enneagram Solutions

Enneagram Made Simple online course


1. We should ask, “What does this make possible?” not “How can we go back?”

When we’re going through difficult times in life, it’s easy to look back at a time before the pain was so real, or the challenge was so big. We long to go back. Ian would encourages us not to. In hard times, he learned from Gail Hyatt to ask the question, “What does this make possible?” Rather than, “How can I go back to the way it was?”

Today, we might be tempted to want to go back to how things were before Coronavirus. That’s a normal feeling, but it won’t help us or our organizations. If we want to thrive, we need to look ahead at what we can do as a result of the crisis, not just what we can’t.

2. There’s a big difference between vulnerability and transparency

During the interview, Carey tells the story of how he thought he was being vulnerable with his small group. After hopping off the call, his wife pointed out that he had just blown off their friends and made it seem like he had it all together. Ian pointed out that Carey was probably being transparent, not vulnerable.

What’s the difference? Vulnerability should make you a bit nervous. Your heart rate will increase, you’ll have a bit of sweat on your upper lip, and you might even feel queasy. Being transparent will feel a lot more calculated. Ian also noted that transparency isn’t a bad thing, it’s just not always the best thing. Don’t tell yourself you’re being vulnerable when you’re actually being transparent.

3. Resist the urge to over manage your team in a crisis

One of the problems for leaders is, in crisis, they tend to over manage and under lead. If anything, we need to do the opposite. We need to let other leaders in our organizations manage the team while we step back and look at the 10,000 ft view. In this crazy time, focus on the meta-level.

While we focus on the meta-level, don’t forget about the human factors of the team. If your personality has been jump-started by the challenges posed by this crisis, remember that not everyone else is energized. Some of the members on our teams are scared or distracted by the crisis. We may need to proceed with grace as we navigate the meta-level decisions.

Quotes from Episode 342

In crisis, leaders tend to over-manage and under lead. @ianmorgancron Click To Tweet

There is a difference between transparency and vulnerability. @ianmorgancron Click To Tweet

Are you under stress? Use this acronym: SNAP – Stop, Notice, Ask, Pivot @ianmorgancron Click To Tweet

Between the stimulus and the response, there is a space. In that space lies your freedom and your power. - Viktor Frankl Click To Tweet

Leaders who don't get sleep make bad decisions. @ianmorgancron Click To Tweet

I desire so to conduct the affairs of this administration that if at the end I have lost every other friend on earth, I shall at least have one friend left, and that friend shall be down inside of me. - Abraham Lincoln Click To Tweet

Pivoting is the key to the future. @cnieuwhof Click To Tweet

Underneath your wiring is a wound. @cnieuwhof Click To Tweet

If you don't know the source of your unhealthy behavior, you can't correct your course. @cnieuwhof Click To Tweet

Unhealthy leadership happens by accident, healthy leadership does not. @cnieuwhof Click To Tweet

As a leader, you'll never address what you don't confess. @cnieuwhof Click To Tweet

healthy leaders create healthy organizations. Unhealthy leaders create unhealthy organizations. @cnieuwhof Click To Tweet

Read or Download the Transcript for Episode 342

Looking for a key quote? More of a reader?

Read or download a free PDF transcript of this episode here.

Watch Back Episodes of The Podcast on YouTube

Select episodes of this podcast are now on YouTube. Our new YouTube Channel gives you a chance to watch some episodes, not just listen. We’ll add select episodes to YouTube as time goes on.



The current disruption is showing you how crucial it is to stay flexible as things continue to change.

With ‘normal’ still being elusive, the future belongs to the pivoters.

So…how well positioned are you for future pivots?

My brand new online training, the 30 Day Pivot, will show you how to develop your agility as a leader and as an organization to position yourself for growth.

The 30 Day Pivot is a simple 3-step process you and your team can utilize every as often as every 30 days to respond to the change around you and capitalize on it.

In the 30 Day Pivot, you’ll learn:
  • A simple 3-step process your team can use to arrive at your next pivot in 90 minutes or less.
  • An approach that fosters team-generated innovation.
  • An implementation and evaluation framework that will help your team move quickly and accurately.
I’ve led teams through multiple pivots, and in the 30 Day Pivot, I show you the strategy and framework you need to make quick, accurate and responsive moves that can position your organization for growth, even in the midst of deep uncertainty and change.

Some organizations and churches will thrive in the new normal.

Others won’t.

While the future is uncertain, yours doesn’t have to be.

You can learn more and gain instant access to the 30 Day Pivot here.

Subscribed Yet? 

Subscribe for free and never miss out on wisdom from world-class leaders like Brian Houston, Andy Stanley, Craig Groeschel, Nancy Duarte, Henry Cloud, Patrick Lencioni, Francis Chan, Ann Voskamp, Erwin McManus and many others.

Subscribe using your favorite podcast app via

Apple Podcasts


Google Play



Spread the Word. Leave a Rating and Review

Hopefully, this episode has helped you lead like never before. That’s my goal. If you appreciated it, could you share the love?

The best way to do that is to rate the podcast on Apple Podcasts and leave us a brief review! You can do the same on Stitcher and on TuneIn as well.

Your ratings and reviews help us place the podcast in front of new leaders and listeners. Your feedback also lets me know how I can better serve you.

Thank you for being so awesome.

Next Episode:  Nicky Gumbel

Nicky Gumbel is a former barrister (attorney), pastor of Holy Trinity Brompton, London, one of the largest churches in the UK and pioneer of Alpha, a ministry that’s reached over 20 million people with the Gospel. Nicky explains how and why he changed his mind about church online, why, despite his misgivings, it’s a better evangelism tool than in-person ministry, and how he repositioned his church and Alpha for explosive growth during the pandemic.

Subscribe for free now so you won’t miss Episode 343.

CNLP 342: Ian Morgan Cron on How Your Enneagram Type Handles Stress, How to Stay Healthy in a Crisis, and the Best Approach to Dealing with Uncertainty


  1. Caleb on June 17, 2020 at 3:47 am

    I listened to the podcast and noticed there was a lot of airtime addressing how 1, 3, & 8’s can positively manage stress, but heard very little about some of the other numbers . Granted, this podcast isn’t a complete deep-dive, but was actually quite discouraged to hear very little about 6’s: that they will probably struggle the most with all this uncertainty, and a very brief example from Ian on how a 6 has a job managing crisis. Got any articles/resources for some of the other, non-typical-leader numbers who are also facing uncertainty & crisis in the upcoming months?

  2. Stephen Crewson on May 29, 2020 at 7:49 pm

    Hi Carey,

    Thanks for the great podcasts. One thing that struck me while listening to this episode while driving is how the recurring theme of sleep, exercise and nutrition keeps coming up. I’m finding that I’m making great gains in these areas recently by monitoring this. I was using a Garmin watch for my exercise and sleep but switched to something called Whoop back in November. The helpful part of Whoop is that it measures my strain, recommends how much I should push myself for optimal performance in addition to showing accurately my quality of sleep. I look forward to my morning recovery scores. I’ve personal watched my biometrics improve as I’ve let Whoop personally coach me.

    I hesitated to even mention Whoop because it feels like marketing from me. I firmly believe that the info that it is communicating to me may well have helped me during the darkest days I had in full-time ministry in and around 2005. In many ways your story so often reminds me of myself. What you do with the info is obviously up to you but I think it might be worth investigating.

    Again, THANK YOU for all you are doing to encourage and strengthen leaders,


Leave a Comment

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.