CNLP 003: The Best Practices Church Leaders Can Adopt from Business Leaders & Vice-Versa — An Interview with Casey Graham

What can church leaders learn from the CEO of a company that made the Inc. 5000 list and was named Infusionsoft’s 2013 Marketer of the Year?


And what can business leaders learn from church leaders?


Welcome to Episode 3 of the Podcast!

In this podcast, I talk with Casey about the differences between church leaders and business leaders, how to adopt several key best practices (including how to use email effectively with your congregation and how to use Facebook as outreach).

Casey also outlines several keys to engaging business leaders who are attending your church.


Guest Links: Casey Graham

Find and follow Casey Graham here:

The Rocket Company

Casey on Twitter

Casey on Facebook

Links Mentioned in This Episode

The links and resources mentioned in this episode include:

Giving Rocket (affiliate link to free 7 day test drive of Giving Rocket)

Giving Rocket – Thrive Program

Preaching Rocket

Volunteer Rocket

Ted Talk: Dan Palotta: The Way We Think About Charity is Dead Wrong

Rocket Company Award: Infusionsoft Ultimate Marketer of the Year 2013

Rocket Company on the Inc 5000 List: Inc. Top 5000 List

Content Marketing:

Facebook Targeting: Facebook Power Editor

Facebook Marketing:

Facebook Targeting Resource: Perry Marshall’s Facebook Course

Email Management:

Email Management:

3 Things You Can Do Right Away

Casey’s interview was full of great advice.

While there’s so much you could do after listening to Casey, here are 3 things you can do this week:

1. Focus on results, not just relationships. Too many ministry leaders lose site of results because of the pull of so many relationships.

2. Send a vision-based e-mail to your church. Follow Casey’s advice and shoot a two minute video or 400 word email encouraging your church or organization and email it to them. You can even migrate your church email list to or AWeber so you can track results and manage your email relationships better. If you do, you’ll even see how many people opened your email and what they clicked on.

3. Tap a business leader on the shoulder. Invite them to lunch or a short term leaders-only mission trip. Ask them to serve directly. High capacity leaders don’t respond to cattle calls. But they will often respond to a thoughtful direct ask.

Tweetables from Casey

Did You Catch This? The Podcast Is Now Weekly!

Great news! Many of you had asked if the podcast could become a weekly podcast.

Your wish is granted.

I’m delighted to let you know there will be a fresh episode on your device every Tuesday morning moving forward. Today’s the first weekly podcast.

That’s a great reason to subscribe now.

Hear Me Speak and Have Lunch with Me In Washington DC or Indianapolis || Orange Tour 2014

I’m going to be in Washington D.C. on Thursday, October 9 and Friday October 10th, and in Indianapolis on Thursday October 16 and Friday October 17th for the 2014 Orange Tour.

I’ll be giving some keynotes and doing some breakouts on parenting, leadership and the church, and hosting a lunch for senior leaders each Friday of the Tour Stop. I’d love to hang out. Sign up below!

2014 Orange Tour

Have lunch with Carey: Register for the Washington DC Orange Tour Stop

Have lunch with Carey: Register for the Indianapolis Orange Tour Stop


Android Fans

Good news!

The podcast is available on Stitcher and on TuneIn Radio as well. Subscribe today. 🙂

 Next Episode: Kara Powell

In Episode 4, I interview Kara Powell, Executive Director of the Fuller Youth Institute and author of Sticky Faith on why young adults are walking away from the church and what you can do about it—as a church leader and a parent.

Kara is not only an academic and writer, she’s a mom and church leader who cares passionately about seeing faith stick in the next generation.

She is a sought after expert who speaks to church leaders around the world about her insights and research.

Episode 004 goes live Tuesday, October 7th 2014.

Subscribe to the Podcast

Never miss an episode. Subscribe to the podcast for free on iTunesStitcher or TuneIn Radio.

 Got 60 Seconds? Rate the Podcast.

Hopefully this episode has helped you lead like never before. That’s my goal. If you appreciated it, could you share the love?

The best way to do that is to rate the podcast in iTunes and leave us a brief review! You can do the same on Stitcher and on TuneIn Radio as well.

Your rating and review helps gets the podcast in front of new leaders and listeners.

All reviews are SO appreciated.

Thank you!

Got a question? Leave a comment.


  1. Rob Culler on March 18, 2016 at 9:07 pm

    I started listening to your podcast a little over month ago and decided to go back and start from the beginning. I did two things after listening to this episode: (1) I signed up for preaching rocket (2) I started sending out a midweek video message to our church email list. I was unprepared for the all the positive feedback to the video. At church, in the community, via facebook and email, church members constantly say they love the videos. Thanks for giving us practical ideas that work!

  2. […] with kids, who read Tom Clancy novels and live within a 10 minute drive of your location”.) Carey Nieuwhof and Casey Graham talked about this as well last week on Carey’s podcast. This is a massive opportunity for your church … take advantage of […]

  3. Chris Shumate on October 1, 2014 at 11:13 am

    Great episode, Casey is a smart guy!

    Something that Casey mentions in the podcast got me thinking back to a few of your posts regarding church not growing past a certain number, or plateauing. It was when he says that business leaders are more likely to utilize innovation, whereas most church leaders are not.

    Businesses that do not innovate become obsolete, think of the cotton gin, steam engine rail cars, Windows 95, getting film developed at Walgreen’s, movie rental stores, PDAs, and so many others.

    His statement made me think of how many churches are stalled because they haven’t progressed with time, culture, and technology? Fog machines, electric guitars, and expensive lighting equipment doesn’t make a church good or bad, but churches that are using these things are growing and seeing many professions of faith and baptisms. It is time for churches to seriously consider what innovation looks like to their targeted audience.

    I am thinking about his statement that business leaders think about revenue because they want to. I am struggling with that comment, candidly. Business leaders that feel they don’t have to think about revenue end up like Blackberry, RadioShack, Best Buy, etc. Revenue should generate cash flow, which in turn allows for innovation. If Casey has more time (Ha!, who really does) I would like to hear more about his thoughts on this so I could understand better where he’s coming from. I’m not disagreeing, just struggling a little.

  4. Markus on October 1, 2014 at 7:23 am

    Let me get this straight, Casey built a for-profit business off a church curriculum he got for free?
    Stay classy my slimy friend.

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