An Open Letter

May 25, 2009 in Leadership,Life,Mission,Online with 32 Comments

Dear Hip 2B Holy Viewer,

If you happened to have watched Hip 2B Holy on Global, and you're one of the people who hasn't gone to church for a long time or ever, this letter's for you.

First, I just want to say sorry for keeping you away for so long.  The church has not done a particularly good job of being clear or even being open to people who aren't part of our club.  That needs to change and I hope it is changing.

Second, sorry for any and all anger directed at you by Christians.  I'm always amazed that Jesus rarely had a harsh word for religious "outisders".  Instead, he kept his harsh words for insiders who didn't reflect God's heart (usually religious leaders).  How we got it backwards, I'll never know. So for the times we've held placards denouncing you and whatever your group stands for – sorry.  It's not like Christ to attack the people He died for.

Third, sorry for behaving like Jesus died for the church.  His compassion and affection were actually sent for the world, not just for a small minority of people or peoples.  When Jesus died and rose again, we were all covered by that.  Sometimes we in the church behave like it was for us only.  That's wrong.

Fourth, sorry for making it so hard to understand what God is saying.  If you've tried church, you realize that often we just get "weird" about how we do church and we make it hard for someone with no background to understand what's happening or going on.  That needs to stop.

Finally, while the documentary did a great job in many respects, I felt a bit bad about its portrayal of mainline Christianity.  Yes, it's in decline.  Yes, I was in mainline circles for a decade and left, but there's no bitterness.  There are pockets of life and some fantastic Christ-followers in mainline churches.  Wish that had come out.  

There is a lot more to be said.  But the bottom line is this: Jesus loved this world passionately enough to die for it and offer us new life.  

I hope you can be part of a new dialogue – a new beginning.  Many of us are still getting our heads around what it means to be loved by God.  I don't fully understand it. 

When we gather, we want to create an open, accessible, even irresistible environment in which people of all backgrounds and life-stories can come together to discover grace, forgiveness, transformation and hope.  

We need you.  We need skeptics, doubters, people who think they are beyond the reach of love, people who feel the whole Christianity thing is garbage.  We need you in community – in our community, to be part of the community and part of the dialogue.

Thanks for watching…If we can help in any way, we're in.  Post a comment.  Drop by our website. Send me an email.  Come to one of our services or drop by a church in your neighbourhood.  

There's a powerful message and relationship with God that's really worth exploring.  I hope we can do that together. 

Carey

About Carey Nieuwhof: Carey Nieuwhof is lead pastor of Connexus Community Church and author of the best selling books, Leading Change Without Losing It and Parenting Beyond Your Capacity. Carey speaks to North American and global church leaders about change, leadership, and parenting.

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  • John Hof

    I am watching the Global show right now and your comment on abortion hit me right between the eyes. I would dearly love to know under what conditions or circumstances it would be OK to have an abortion. Or for that matter under what circumstances it would not be OK under your rules..

    I love your enthusiasm and especially your fresh new approach. Still if you are the same old religion wrapped in different paper, you need to say that. BTW I am in favor of all children experiencing the life I enjoy and not one of them should be killed before they are born for the convenience of the mother or father. We don't do that to born kids so why are unborn kids of less value?

    John Hof

    Langley BC

  • SB

    Thanks for being so open and real on this show. Those of us on this journey of life appreciate hearing spiritual truth.

  • http://www.careynieuwhof.com Carey Nieuwhof

    SB…thanks for the feedback. John, thanks as well.

    John I appreciate your question. Thanks for asking it. Sorry, but I'm not going to get into the abortion debate. We've stayed away from it for years and it was one question in hours of interviews with Global. We really want to keep our focus on meeting people where they are at and helping them enter a growing relationship with Jesus.

  • Joey

    Carey, great point about affirming the role the mainline churches (which was lacking in the documentary). Yes there is life and hope for Chrisitianity there too. After all, the Alpha course itself came from the Anglican church. Many great things have been done and are currently being done by churches of all denominations – mainstream and new – as well as by house churches and small Christian communities too. As always God works in many ways and on many fronts. We who love Jesus are all part of the body of Christ.

  • Allen Forget

    Carey
    I thought overall the program was well done. My daughter is thrilled that she was on national TV! I hope and pray that people will see the true Jesus through us and experience Him as we work to create the kind of environments that will attract their interest and make them feel comfortable and welcome.
    Peace

  • Kate

    I think your reply to John regarding abortion is sadly lame. I understand you are trying to encourage and include those that would never have thought of Christianity for them, but you cannot soft-sell the product. Christianity is rewarding and fulfilling, but hard!

    It sounds to me you don't want to lose the support of anyone so you are trying to play it in the middle of the road by either not commenting or not committing to any kind of real anwser to some divisive questions. I wish you were as brave about the abortion question as you were about same sex marriage.

    Sadly, GOD wants us to declare ourselves for Him or against Him… the lukewarm get spat out, if I recall! He died for us, how can we do less?

    I think your lack of willingness to get into defining questions will come back to bite you in the end… you cannot be Christian and fail on questions that are fundamental. How can you be a friend of Christ if you will not love His precious creation?

  • http://patdryburgh.net Pat

    Kate, I actually appreciate Carey's response to the abortion issue. As he said in the documentary, there really isn't an "absolute" in this and many issues. I know you likely may not agree, and I may be a heathen for thinking otherwise, but that's how I feel.

    I also appreciated Carey's answer regarding gay marriage. I don't necessarily agree with his position (I believe marriage shouldn't be governed by law, but rather only contracts pertaining to civil unions), but his point that "he would rather not perform marriages than marry a homosexual couple" shows that while he respects those of differing views, he should be free to have his own as well.

    There were a lot of tough issues dealt with in the documentary, and a lot that really bothered me at a deep level. It always bothers me when Christians get caught up in politics, or when hot-button issues like abortion or homosexuality are used as the standard by which people's spirituality is to be judged. I appreciate that Carey has his beliefs, and at the same time respects those who disagree.

  • Joey

    Hi Kate, respectfully, I agree totally with Pat. He said what I was thinking much better than I could have – thanks Pat!

    I wouldn’t want Connexus to be an issue church where we focus on divisive issues like abortion. We live in such a hurting world where knowing how much Jesus loves us is so important and I’m very glad Connexus focuses on that.

    As individuals we also have diverse concerns. For example, I was really glad to see the documentary mention the Christian focus on creation care and the environment. I’m passionate about that (so glad we have Fair Trade coffee at Connexus!).

    Though I liked the documentary, I wish it had focused more on some of the outreach activities we do at Connexus – such as purchasing hundreds of mosquito nets for the Canadian Red Cross and funding a medical clinic in Guatemala. And on our fantastic kids and young people’s ministries! Still, thanks Global and Kevin Newman – I’m so glad they noticed that there is something important and powerful going on both inside Canada’s churches and also outside the walls of churches.

    Jesus is “busting out all over!”

  • Sean Ollech

    An issue church? Doesn't Christ himself have an issue to save immortal souls? Doesn't Christ himself say that he comes not to unite, but to divide? To part the sheep from the goats?

    I am saddened by someone who claims to represent Christ would shy away from his teachings on difficult issues. As Christ said, 'narrow is the way to life and few enter.'

  • http://www.careynieuwhof.com Carey Nieuwhof

    Thanks everyone for responding. This is a great discussion, and I'm grateful for it.

    I think it's important to remember that Christ did not just come to deal with abortion or any other single issue. He came to save people.

    I hope we can focus more on a key verse we all acknowledge: 'God so loved the world.'

    I just hope we can embrace that, because sometimes in the dialogue and the protests and the quest for being right, you would think our message is that Christ so hated the world. Nothing could be further from the truth. He loves us – all of us – deeply enough to die for us and offer us forgiveness and new life.

    I really hope that's the message our friends and neighbours hear loudly and clearly.

  • JP

    Ya know I can't think of anything appropriate to say in response to Sean, Kate and Jon but I will say this. Nate, Aaron and Carey all did an excellent job of representing the truths they believe in. I was touched by Aaron's journey, excited about Nate's cutting edge stuff and the actual amount of air time that was given to Carey so he could share the vision of Connexus.

    It was all cool.

    What an opportunity to tell people that God loves them and still cares about them.

  • John Hof

    Perhaps JP could start his comments to Kate, Sean and Jon by telling them that he loves them and respects them.

    Carey, I am sorry this discussion has not gone the way you expected it to. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son." He gave us that Son by way of a crisis pregnancy to an unwed, teenaged Mary in the most stack circumstances anyone could imagine. Mary's "Yes" to God's invitation to share in mankind's salvation is the reason we have Christianity today. Your reason for spreading God's abundant love and His Good News is made possible only because of Mary's YES. Can we now accept people saying "No" 100,000 times a year in Canada and stand by with the comment you made above. "Sorry, but I'm not going to get into the abortion debate. We've stayed away from it for years"

    I won't trouble you further but please, for the children's sake don't "stay away" from this debate any longer. Your gift calls you to greatness. Please answer that call.

  • Kate

    Christianity is not a one issue religion, nor was the abortion discussion meant to sidetrack all the good that is being done, BUT Casey gave a non-traditional answer to a tough question on abortion, and I am sorry, but it stuck out glaringly to me. It in fact, shocked me.

    Just because I have a firm stance on abortion does not mean that I am a black and white person, or rigid, or any other negative associated with a prolife stance. I am convicted. Christ was convicted. Without conviction about things that matter at a fundamental level, then who will be willing to live and die for their beliefs? I also care and love.

    I am caught by the title of the blog…. "Life Matters", and I think that is my point, as well as John and Sean. Life Matters.

    Mary said YES and so "life matters".

  • http://www.thebassman.ca Tim L. Walker

    I find it sad, and somewhat disturbing, that so many "Christians" focused in on a 10-second comment about abortion and totally missed the rest of the 1-hour long "documentary." So typical. It's no wonder that Christianity is falling off the map. This is what the secular world sees when they look at Christianity. A bunch of in-fighting over hot-button topics. If you really took what the Bible said to heart and applied it to you life, you'd be focusing on introducing more people to Christ and spend less time arguing with fellow Christ followers.

  • Sam

    I'm so glad Connexus came along. I was dying spiritually before. Thanks for introducing me to Christ.

  • Allen Forget

    Hey all
    Food for thought.
    If you want to make true lasting change in the world you need to get to the root of any issue. Why do we focus so much on making or influencing LAW over something like abortion when what we as Christians need to do, and exactly what Carey is elluding to, is save the soul or save the person through belief in Christ. We do that by lovingly caring for the lost and by inviting them into a relationship with God that will fundamentally change their views on how they live their lives. That is why creating inviting environments is so important and that is why there is no sense in making a political statement about issues like this. Politics is not going to change a persons individual attitude and view on something like abortion, only God can do that. They have a law about how fast you can drive on the highway, do you obey that law to the letter? Probably not. Point is that there are the lawless out there as well and making or influencing law does nothing in the long run. Influencing lives on the other hand has forever lasting effects. I, as a Christian, would not agree to an abortion as that is what I beleive. If the person standing beside me in the coffee shop, who is not a Christian, does believe that abortion is OK then I have a job to invite them into a relationship in Christ. Not for the abortion issue but for LIFE CHANGING TRUTH.

    Kudos to your stance on gay marriage in the church as well Carey. I have close personal relationships with some gay couples and I personally don't have a problem with that. Love is love and relationship is relationship. Once again we need to look at the issue seperate from the church. The rights that gay people are fighting for in terms of marriage are based on the state, on politics, on being equal in the eyes of the governement so that they can claim the right taxes or get the same benefits that married people can get. I have not heard of gay people taking on God on the issue have you? IF the government wants to recognize same sex relationships as equal to male-female relationships then have at it. I think it is OK. That does not mean that Christians need to change what we believe. We cannot as God has already spoken on the issue and we are not worthy to change His law on the subject. Let me say that again. WE ARE NOT WORTHY TO CHANGE GOD'S LAW! Let's get on with saving the souls of the lost by creating environments where we can bring them into. I think we will have alot more success that way.
    Peace

  • Jesse

    I think Carey did an excellent job with the way that he dealt with the abortion issue during the documentary.
    Just imagine a person watching the show, looking for God, even though they just went through an abortion. All it would have taken them to turn off the TV would have been the simple answer that abortion is wrong in all circumstances, with no exceptions.
    I can't speak for Carey, but I think that as an evangelistic pastor he is probably more concerned with reaching out to them, and drawing them in than trying to impress the "Christians" who are unwilling to consider anything other than what they believe.

  • JP

    John Hof,

    My apologies if I've offended you with my earlier comment.

    I think what we are trying to say is that if we spent more time introducing people to a loving personal relationship with Jesus Christ, things like abortion wouldn't be an issue in our society. Nor would oppression of the weak, poverty, theft or even high taxes for that matter. People in general would change spiritually in that relationship with Christ and would come to the understanding through his teachings that the things they are doing are not a part of His kingdom.

    When we take hard stances on things like abortion we alienate masses of people who don't understand where we are coming from. The church has done such a poor job of showing people how to create a relationship with Christ that it is almost bankrupt of anything else but bitterness at the world for not conforming to it's wishes!

    If we first show them a loving God who wants to be a part of their life and they accept Him, the next natural step is to want to do His will.

    With this in mind I too would rather spend my time leading people to that loving personal relationship with Jesus Christ than sit in a picket line telling someone they will be damned to hell for whatever it is they are doing because it disagrees with the churches stance.

  • http://www.samreynolds.ca Sam Reynolds

    The programme, and these corpse of Falwell Megachurches remind me of the timeless McLuhan axiom: The Medium is the Message. I fear that the medium itself is distracting from the content. These 'churches' attempt to create a spectacle rather then be rich in content.

    And not to mention that the whole movement is a tad bit anti intellectual.

    I kinda liveblogged about it during the commercials:
    http://samreynolds.ca/?p=47

  • Joan

    Sorry to add a bit more to the issue of abortion but I just had to add something. I, personally, don't believe in abortion and I'm thankful that I've never had to face that decision. I don't think Jesus "believes" in it either, but I do know that we have a God of grace and that anyone who comes to accept Christ is forgiven for their old life. How can a woman in these circumstances heal, if we, as the church to do not accept her, but wave placards of condemnation at her. I believe people can be transformed living in God's promises of forgiveness. It is by God's grace that we, as sinners, can come to know new life. I think of the beginning of a Philip Yancey book that talks of a woman who abused her little girl. Someone suggested she go to church but the woman said…why would I do that, I feel guilty enough as it is. That says it all about what church means to some people. We don't necessarily know of someone's past life once they have turned over their hearts to Christ. They could have been drug dealers, porn addicts, alcoholics…whatever. They are not for us to judge – that is left in the hands of God and we need to leave it at that. I'm grateful for God's grace. I know that my God is a God of forgiveness and as He has forgiven me, so I must love and forgive others. I'm glad we have a church like Connexus that can be a safe place for someone to fall and through Christ be lifted back up!

  • Scott

    Carey, great post. Commenters on the "hot topics", let God be God.

    We, in the Church, are continually guilty of committing the same sin that originally separated us from God – we want control over trust in Him. No surprise, we're still human. So let's not take ourselves so seriously we buy into the fallacy that we have any role as judge at all. Yes, we can have a backbone and take stands, but that is secondary to providing a pathway that would allow someone separated from God to get close enough to clearly consider the life-changing truth of Jesus Christ.

    How nonsensical is it for us to march forward with our judgments to a world that's separated from Him? What adult agrees to a challenging personal standard without knowing the standard-bearer? Yet, we pigheadedly believe we are doing "God's work" with these methods of advancing divisive issues. Sorry, my God is a lot bigger than that. He's given me one task, conform my life to the example set by His Son. In doing that, I will naturally have opportunities to witness the transformative power of Truth in my life to others. Jesus saves. You and I don't.

    I don't see how so many in the Church find time for anything else. Man, just think what the Church could do if we could put down our own divisions and march forward with just the Gospel and not our social commentary! Gosh we might even change the world. How 'bout it? :-)

  • Dave Mc

    Anyone who attends Connexus on a regular basis can attest to the fact that Carey does not shy away from hard topics. The difference in teaching is how people are treated with a loving and compassionate respect BEFORE making a choice about Jesus. Our Community Group environments are where deeper issues get hashed out, relationships are built, and tears and laughter are shared. Can't wait for Muskoka to be up and running!!!

  • http://www.unmaskingchoice.ca Canbuhay

    I have to wonder if posters here truly understand what the abortion debate is about.

    This debate is not about what I prefer. This debate is not about one’s religious experience trumping someone else. The debate is whether or not human beings should be legally killed in this country.

    Christians claim abortion kills human beings and that these human beings are human regardless of our religious beliefs.

    That's an objective truth claim not a subjective one. Imagine Joan, if you were to say I am personally opposed to slavery as a Christian but it's okay if others legally own slaves. Or I as a Christian am personally opposed to lynchings but it should be legal for others to do them. Do you really understand what abortion does to unborn human beings? Check out http://www.unmaskingchoice.ca if you don't.

    But I want to ask Pastor Carey and others why they say they’re opposed to abortion in the first place. Is it because for you, it kills babies? Therefore you wouldn’t personally kill babies but then, is it okay for others to do it?

    If they are people loved by God, just like us, then what's the hesitation to speak out in the defense of the unborn? If abortion kills a human being (and scientifically, it does), then aren't those human beings just as much our neighbours?

    If they are truly human beings killed at a rate of 300 everyday in this country, then aren't you putting your popularity and image above their lives?

    Remember, the one thing more unpopular than the slave trade during William Wilberforce’s time, were the abolitionists.

    I know those sound like harsh words but truth is sometimes painful to hear and that's okay! Jesus was harsh in His words to lots of people (not just religious types) because He loved them enough to want them to become better.

    And that argument, that He was harsh mostly to religious people who should have known better, in no way disproves our need to speak truth to everyone – the Pharisees weren’t even Jesus’ followers! Besides, if you buy into that argument, then I definitely have all the right to sound harsh to the Christians here!

    Jesus spoke these truths because He knew there are times that He couldn't be nice. And His followers should be willing to be likewise unpopular. Explicitly saying that the lives of unborn Canadians are so unimportant to your ministry that you can't even talk about them, has to be one of those times (imagine if it were 300 disabled people or 300 Jews who were being legally killed daily and you’ll see why pro-lifers are so frustrated with your comments).

    I'm always concerned about Christian churches that are afraid to offend in the name of “love”. Because clearly, the gospel is offensive! It makes me wonder what they preach at those churches.

    Jesus was the most caring and most loving person who walked on the earth yet He and His followers offended people many times (Matt 13:57, Matt 6:3, Rom 9:33). If they weren’t offensive, they wouldn’t have been martyred, right?

    Jesus even promised that those who follow Him would be hated just as He was hated (John 15:18) because they would truly understand how to love. Love offends because love clings to the truth.

    This does not mean that we go out of our way to be obnoxious. It means we understand that there are times to speak for unpopular truths – because we love God and love the people He does.

    Our main goal as followers of Jesus then is to care more about helping people be good then helping people feel good.

    Dismissing the uncomfortable truths about abortion may make your congregation feel good Pastor Carey but it won’t help them be good.

    Canbuhay

    PS Oh and by the way Scott, are you saying it’s wrong to judge? And if so, why are you judging those of us who disagree with you?

    Besides, if we can’t expect non-Christians to act like Christians, does that mean you expect every non-Christian to start killing any person they view as inconvenient? Should murder no longer be illegal then? But shouldn’t you expect more from non-Christians?

  • Joan

    Canbuhay, I obviously didn't state my view correctly because it may have appeared that I think abortion might be ok. It is not ok for me as a person or as a Christian. I didn't want to infer that abortion is ok or should be legal for me or anyone else. I am totally against it and would not be afraid to tell anyone that, but it wasn't a point of voting on that matter that concerned me. It was about forgiveness if someone had an abortion and repented for it. If they don't care that they had one then that is a different story. Too long of a story for here. I don't have it all figured out and I continue to grow with God's help. I would never suggest someone get an abortion either. Blogging is great but this medium doesn't really lend itself well to discussion. I am against a lot of things….killing, stealing, prostitution, drugs, gossip, alcohol abuse, lies, envy, adultery, premarital sex,jealousy, the list is endless. It does not mean that I am free of those things though and as long as I strive and struggle to be a "good Christian", living Christian values like Jesus taught, I must remember others who may also be trying to do the same and I can only condemn them I guess, if I am also condemning myself. If I don't fill myself with God's love and forgiveness, how can I be any good to others. So, to sum up, I'm still against abortion and would stand up to that, but I can't turn my back on anyone that seeks forgiveness and needs love while being less than perfect.

  • Shawn

    This discussion is fascinating and unfortunate all at the same time. Regardless of our opinions on abortion, or any other issue, at the end of the day there are hurting people out there. We can make a difference.

  • Jennifer

    I empathize with those who feel very strongly that a hard line public stance against abortion and gay marriage is inline with God's heart. I went through a period where I almost went mental with political lobbying. I sent out brochures, met with politicians, distributed petitions, and attended various rallies. I felt that my zeal and adrenaline rush were the "furor of the Holy Spirit" and a clear sign that I was in the centre of God's will.

    But something strange happened along the way. While I knew that abortion and gay marriage weren’t in God's heart, I started to see that our approach really wasn't in his heart either. I realized that more often than not I was "attacking" the other side and that my fellow Christian activists were increasing spewing venom at our “enemy”. It wasn’t attractive. It was actually pretty shameful. I soon realized that I had entered a world in which Christ was not a part. Every day I fought hard and every day the results were the same – lost ground and a lot of anger.

    Jesus could have come to us as a political leader or a military commander or a high profile media darling, but he didn't choose any of those roles. He chose instead to come in the unassuming role of a Carpenter’s son. He connected with people and loved them first and (guess what!) He gained ground. Connexus is following in his footprints. I pray that Global won’t be the only one to notice it.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p01156fba5277970c Jen

    Abortion debate?! I don't thnk the majority blogging here desire ANY sort of debate. This 'conversation' has now reached ridiculous levels. "Explicitly saying that the lives of unborn Canadians are so unimportant to your ministry…", I'm sorry, I must have missed something….WHO SAID THAT?! Poor Carey, an innocent comment has turned into this. And people wonder why he chosses to not take any particular stand on such a hot topic….look what this has turned into! Anything he said on the topic of abortion was bound to offend somebody. I'd be like him and choose to not state my official stance as well. I will speak only for myself when I say that when a horrific rape occurs and a pregnancy follows that perhaps I will not judge the woman for terminating that pregnancy. Perhaps, and only perhaps, that might be Carey's opinion as well.

  • http://www.unmaskingchoice.ca Canbuhay

    The unborn are hurting people to Shawn. What are you doing to make a difference for them?

  • http://www.unmaskingchoice.ca Canbuhay

    To use "offending" people as your standard of what to talk and not talk about is an admission that you aren't preaching the gospel, Jen.

    Paul explicitly wrote the gospel is a stumbling block to both Jews and Gentiles who would be offended by it. (1 Corinthians 1:22-24)

    That doesn't mean we have to be intentionally offensive or that we can't be wise about how we say something but it means we won't stop speaking the truth in love even if it does offend people!

    BTW, have you ever met my friend Rebecca who was conceived through the worst kind of rape possible – her biological dad jumped out of the bushes as her mom was walking home from the grocery store? As she asks, does she deserve the death penalty for what her dad did?

    http://www.rebeccakiessling.com/

    And in no way Jennifer did I say we have to do political lobbying or that we have to write letters. Gosh, there are many ways to show love.

    One way NOT to show love to those who are hurt by abortion and those killed by it, is to not talk about it or to refuse to preach on it out of fear of being offensive.

    Canadians are dying every day in this country and Christian leaders don't even want to talk about it because we might turn some people off. How does that make us attractive witnesses of God's love?

  • http://www.thebassman.ca Tim L. Walker

    It's not about turning people off, Canbuhay. It's about taking the focus away from salvation through Jesus. It's not about offending or not, it's about showing the love of God through Jesus Christ to those that don't know Him. You obviously have found a passion in the abortion issue, which is great. I don't think you'll find many people responding to and reading these comments that will disagree with your stance on abortion. What I disagree with (can't speak for anyone else), is the fact that you want to make "abortion" an issue which should be in the forefront for Christianity. And it's not. Nor should it be. Be a Christ-follower first, and an anti-abortionist second – not the other way around. It's not about being soft on "hot-button" issues, it's about making Jesus the "hot-button" issue, not abortion, not gay marriage, or anything else that Christ-followers may be against.

    Case-in-point: the comments on this blog post and on the Hip 2 B Holy documentary. We watched 45 or so minutes on the "new evangelical movement" in Canada, and there was 1 comment, that took about 10 seconds, about the issue of abortion. Yet 95% of the comments on this post are about abortion. Does that seem right to you? We should be talking about how awesome it is that Jesus got an hour of prime time television, but instead, we're arguing about 1 comment on abortion.

    It makes me sad and frustrated.

  • Darren

    Finally, I can pipe in here. I agree that it is very sad that a discussion on "Hip 2 B holy" has turned into a discussion on abortion. The real issue here is the fact that a supposed "evangelical" pastor took the route of people pleasing instead of speaking truth. Ultimately, the most disturbing and destructive thing about the documentary is the fact that these "evangelical" churches are all about pleasing people and making people feel good.

    I could not believe it when "Pastor Carey" asked the "atheist/agnostic" if worship was "good for him?" What is that?

    GOD is the only one who worship ought to be good for. We worship God. Connexus is pure, feel good religion at its pinnacle. This is not true evangelicalism either, its moral relativism – what ever feels good is right.

    I would like to ask Pastor Carey NOT whether he would marry homosexuals or not, but, would he would marry the couple that were "profiled" in the documentary. The believing girl and the atheist boy. True evangelicals would look to the Apostle Paul and see him say the we ought not to be "unequally yoked" (2 Cor. 6:14). Especially in light of the other biblical truth that "As the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything". Apparently even their atheist beliefs! Those beliefs are to be praised!

    The supposed new evangelical movement is yet another lie being sold to people. Jesus is just love, love, love… God is just love, love, love… We will just sweep the stuff about judgment, (a basic truth and tenet of the apostle's creed) under the rug because the "j" word is negative.
    There's also no room for repentance in Pastor Carey's theology if Jesus died for everyone and all you have to do is accept his love!
    However, the movement fits well with the tolerance movement in Canada.

    Another issue I would address is that of Pastor Carey's open letter to hip2beholy watchers… How egotistical does he think he is having the right to apologize – on behalf of all mainline churches; suggesting they are keeping people away from God? In his third apology he states that he is sorry that some have taught that Jesus died only for his church. At other times on the net, he has stated that he is a Calvinist – someone who believes that there was a definite atonement.
    In point four he apologizes that the church has made it hard to understand what God is saying. The authority on who God is and what he says is the Word of God – not the marketing of the church! The recent increase in bible paraphrases and translations would lead me to believe that God is still the authority and his Word is clear.
    Also, if there is no bitterness towards the mainline churches – why use the pulpit as the means to suggest everything that "Pastor" thinks is wrong with the church; Connexus gets right! I clearly heard that in the documentary!
    The pulpit is for the Word of God, the church is for believers to come together apart from the world to worship God, and
    I'm quite afraid the Emporer has been found without convictions or clothes. Guess what? It really isn't hip to be holy; it's dreadfully frightening to be standing in the presence of the Lord and King of the universe – Isaiah crumbled in his presence (Isaiah 6). No one can see Him and live in the flesh. All Glory in heaven and on earth belongs to God.
    Jesus did not get prime time the other night, feel good, relativistic religion did and so did a pastor without guts.

  • Carey Nieuwhof

    Well, I think we're at the end of what might be helpful conversation. There are so many other things to focus on…

    This is precisely why we don't discuss this kind of thing in this way at Connexus.

    I'm not sure who wins with this kind of debate. I doubt it's Jesus, and I'm not sure its people either.

    To all those who read this and say "that's why I don't go to church", I continue to apologize. This discussion does not put a good foot forward on behalf of Christ. It's embarrassing actually.

    To those Christians who think we're "soft" on the bible, I simply encourage them to check our message archive or drop by.

    In the meantime, I'm praying lots of people who feel they don't belong in church find themselves in church this weekend, this discussion notwithstanding.

    What I pray will meet you there: grace. Badly needed grace. It's what I need. I think it's what the world needs.